Janosky:


The beauty of our interactions is that everyone following up our convo can check up the holy scriptures cited here and know what's true and what's not.

Correct

Janosky:


Hosea 12:3-4... Jacob fought with God's messenger he saw face to face..

Is God's Messenger His representative?

Like I said it is not in doubt that Jacob fought wit a messenger neither is it in doubt that he saw God. Unless u think he was lying or drunk.

Tcwork:

If you want, I would give you a list of many others who saw Jehovah. So if the case of Moses is not so clear to you just let me know so I can give u many other references of men seeing Jehovah

Bros, you can't change the holy scriptures...
Kpele

Janosky:


The beauty of our interactions is that everyone following up our convo can check up the holy scriptures cited here and know what's true and what's not.

Do you want me give you a list from the bible of everyone that has seen God in the bible?

Tcwork:

Like I said it is not in doubt that Jacob fought wit a messenger neither is it in doubt that he saw God. Unless u think he was lying or drunk.

John 1:18, John 5:37 no mortal has ever seen God at anytime.
Angels are Elohim.. seen by men. Psalms 8:5.
don't stretch your theory too far.

Janosky:


Bros, you can't change the holy scriptures...
Kpele

Haba am I the one that wrote that Jacob saw God? Or Moses saw God?
I quoted the scriptures word for word. How do you now accuse me of changing the very words of Jacob.
“I have seen God face-to-face, yet my life* was preserved.”+
Even if you don't agree with me or Jacob you can a least see that I am quoting word for word and not changing it

Tcwork:
Do you want me give you a list from the bible of everyone that has seen God in the bible?

Please can you show this forum a photo/ drawing of God?

Janosky:

John 1:18, John 5:37 no mortal has ever seen God at anytime.
Angels are Elohim.. seen by men. Psalms 8:5.
don't stretch your theory too far.

Yes because they saw Jehovah
John 1.18
No man has seen God at any time;+ the only-begotten god+ who is at the Father’s side*+ is the one who has explained Him.
It was Christ they saw. It was Jehovah they saw

Janosky:


Please can you show this forum a photo/ drawing of God?

I guess you are trying to add comedy to our discussion or do you have a serious point here? But thanks the comedy is good for tension

Janosky:

John 1:18, John 5:37 no mortal has ever seen God at anytime.
Angels are Elohim.. seen by men. Psalms 8:5.
don't stretch your theory too far.

Please what do you mean by Angels are Elohim?
Each time an angel represented God in the bible, it was clearly stated. When it was Jehovah himself, it was equally stated

Janosky:

John 1:18, John 5:37 no mortal has ever seen God at anytime.
Angels are Elohim.. seen by men. Psalms 8:5.
don't stretch your theory too far.

1kings11.9
Jehovah became furious at Solʹo·mon, because his heart had inclined away from Jehovah the God of Israel,+ who had appeared to him twice
I would love to see how you would explain this. Here no angel is involved. I really want to see how you would explain this

Janosky:


Bros, you can't change the holy scriptures...
Kpele

Isaiah6.5
Then I said: “Woe to me!
I am as good as dead,*
For I am a man of unclean lips,
And I live among a people of unclean lips;+
For my eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of armies himself!”

No angel involved here

Tcwork:

Please what do you mean by Angels are Elohim?
Each time an angel represented God in the bible, it was clearly stated. When it was Jehovah himself, it was equally stated

Judges 6:11-22, Take your time STUDY..
An angel met Gideon & spoke to Gideon.
At times during their conversation, your Bible says Jehovah did the talking.. an angel represented Jehovah, spoke Jehovah's message to Gideon. Verse 22 says Gideon realized he had been talking to an angel, not Jehovah.

Genesis 32.30
30 So Jacob named the place Pe·niʹel,*+ for he said, “I have seen God face-to-face, yet my life* was preserved"

Angels are God's Messengers, ministering spirits who appear to men in the course of their divine assignments.

Genesis 32:30, Hosea 12:3-4, Psalms 8:5, Jacob saw and fought with Elohim (God's angel/Messenger) not the true Elohim, Jehovah.

(When your Messenger hands your letter to the your Workers, they will say we have heard from our Boss , is the Messenger their Boss?)


John 1:18 , John 5:37, men saw the only begotten god, Jesus Christ, who revealed the only true Elohim, Jehovah his Father who sent Jesus, John 17:3

.

Tcwork:

You ask for scriptures when I have given you 10s.
I believe you did not follow this thread from the start.
1 John4.14
just says it all. Jesus Christ/ Jehovah was sent to be the Savior of the world. There is nothing like a principal saviour.
And no need for the match fixing, just make your points

If it happens that you lived during Othniel days and Othniel was the Person Jehovah sent and raised as Saviour.
You would sure be worshiping him right?
or what would you do?

Remember, a Saviour is a Saviour

Tcwork:

1kings11.9
Jehovah became furious at Solʹo·mon, because his heart had inclined away from Jehovah the God of Israel,+ who had appeared to him twice
I would love to see how you would explain this. Here no angel is involved. I really want to see how you would explain this

Your claim about 1 Kings11:9 is akin to reading Genesis chapter 17 &18 to claim that Abraham saw Jehovah and entertained him.(Hebrews13:2)
Or read Judges 6:14-16 & claim that Jehovah was there in person talking to Gideon..


Myriads upon myriads of loyal angels are at God's beck & call, whenever they perform the divine assignments, the speaking is attributed to Jehovah..

haddeylium:


If it happens that you lived during Othniel days and Othniel was the Person Jehovah sent and raised as Saviour.
You would sure be worshiping him right?
or what would you do?

Remember, a Saviour is a Saviour

Oh! I have come across this
It's so funny how we have been so indoctrinated

Janosky:


Your claim about 1 Kings11:9 is akin to reading Genesis chapter 17 &18 to claim that Abraham saw Jehovah and entertained him.(Hebrews13:2)
Or read Judges 6:14-16 & claim that Jehovah was there in person talking to Gideon..


Myriads upon myriads of loyal angels are at God's beck & call, whenever they perform the divine assignments, the speaking is attributed to Jehovah..

Each time an angel represented God, it was well indicated. Go and check your bible

haddeylium:


If it happens that you lived during Othniel days and Othniel was the Person Jehovah sent and raised as Saviour.
You would sure be worshiping him right?
or what would you do?

Remember, a Saviour is a Saviour

I am not sure I get your point

Janosky:

Judges 6:11-22, Take your time STUDY..
An angel met Gideon & spoke to Gideon.
At times during their conversation, your Bible says Jehovah did the talking.. an angel represented Jehovah, spoke Jehovah's message to Gideon. Verse 22 says Gideon realized he had been talking to an angel, not Jehovah.

Genesis 32.30
30 So Jacob named the place Pe·niʹel,*+ for he said, “I have seen God face-to-face, yet my life* was preserved"

Angels are God's Messengers, ministering spirits who appear to men in the course of their divine assignments.

Genesis 32:30, Hosea 12:3-4, Psalms 8:5, Jacob saw and fought with Elohim (God's angel/Messenger) not the true Elohim, Jehovah.

(When your Messenger hands your letter to the your Workers, they will say we have heard from our Boss , is the Messenger their Boss?)


John 1:18 , John 5:37, men saw the only begotten god, Jesus Christ, who revealed the only true Elohim, Jehovah his Father who sent Jesus, John 17:3

Oga each time it was an angel, the bible clear stated it and when it was Jehovah himself, the bible equally stated it

Janosky:


Your claim about 1 Kings11:9 is akin to reading Genesis chapter 17 &18 to claim that Abraham saw Jehovah and entertained him.(Hebrews13:2)
Or read Judges 6:14-16 & claim that Jehovah was there in person talking to Gideon..


Myriads upon myriads of loyal angels are at God's beck & call, whenever they perform the divine assignments, the speaking is attributed to Jehovah..

Do you believe the bible? When the bible states that someone saw Jehovah why do you argue.
I did not write the bible neither did you. Jehovah appeared to Solomon 2x that is what the Bible says. If it were an angel it would have said so.

Tcwork:

Oga each time it was an angel, the bible clear stated it and when it was Jehovah himself, the bible equally stated it

Thank you for your time.
God bless you.

Tcwork:

I am not sure I get your point

slowly.
If you lived during Othniel days and God sent him as Saviour to you.
You would be worshipping him right?

Remember a Saviour is a Saviour

Jman24:


Oh! I have come across this
It's so funny how we have been so indoctrinated

lol

Tcwork:

Oga each time it was an angel, the bible clear stated it and when it was Jehovah himself, the bible equally stated it

Who sent that angel?
Is the kernel of both message different?

haddeylium:


slowly.
If you lived during Othniel days and God sent him as Saviour to you.
You would be worshipping him right?

Remember a Saviour is a Saviour

A saviour is different from a God.
Obadiah 1.21
And saviors will go up on Mount Zion
To judge the mountainous region of Eʹsau,+

Many saviours have been sent. We only worship the saviour of the world

Janosky:


Who sent that angel?
Is the kernel of both message different?

Clearly both are different times. You read verses where an angel was sent and other verses when Jehovah came himself. Do you doubt the bible.
You realize I did not write these things right?

Tcwork:

A saviour is different from a God.
Obadiah 1.21
And saviors will go up on Mount Zion
To judge the mountainous region of Eʹsau,+
Many saviours have been sent. We only worship the saviour of the world

I like the spot you are right now

Tcwork:

You seem to be writing another bible. A saviour is a saviour. The bible never spoke about or differentiated the classes of saviours

So, now the Bible now classified Saviour. A Saviour is not a Saviour again
Rest ahbegg

Othniel was sent as saviour to people that show believe in God's directive.
Jesus was sent as Saviour by Jehovah to people that excercise faith in him!.

So, you would worshipped Othniel right?.. Yess

haddeylium:


I like the spot you are right now


So, now the Bible now classified Saviour. A Saviour is not a Saviour again
Rest ahbegg

Othniel was sent as saviour to people that show believe in God's directive.
Jesus was sent as Saviour by Jehovah to people that excercise faith in him!.

So, you would worshipped Othniel right?.. Yess

I don't even understand your point. You have to clearly state your point. We were never told to worship everyone that saves us.
So what is your point.
And like you, I also like my spot

haddeylium:


I like the spot you are right now


So, now the Bible now classified Saviour. A Saviour is not a Saviour again
Rest ahbegg

Othniel was sent as saviour to people that show believe in God's directive.
Jesus was sent as Saviour by Jehovah to people that excercise faith in him!.

So, you would worshipped Othniel right?.. Yess

I feel you are trying to make a point but maybe you are not properly expressing yourself.
Are you tying to ask me why I don't worship other saviours?

Tcwork:

I don't even understand your point. You have to clearly state your point. We were never told to worship everyone that saves us.
So what is your point.
And like you, I also like my spot

You'll shortly.

Why is Othniel not worthy of your worship as a Saviour?
Remember, he was Sent just as Jesus was sent by Jehovah.

haddeylium:


You'll shortly.

Why is Othniel not worthy of your worship as a Saviour?
Remember, he was Sent just as Jesus was sent by Jehovah.

Good question. We worship Christ because he is the Great Jehovah. The creature of heaven and earth. For a child has been born to us,+
A son has been given to us;
And the rulership* will rest on his shoulder.+
His name will be called Wonderful Counselor,+ Mighty God,+ Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
He is our great king and leader. That is why we worship him