₦airaland Forum

sinequanon:
That is a popular statement that few people bother to examine.

Religion is also based on evidence, e.g the Bible.

Science does not accept some religious evidence and interpretations.

Similarly, religions do not accept some scientific evidence and interpretations.

And, as I explained, science is also based on faith.

They are all a mixture of evidence, interpretation and faith.

Try and pinpoint the different. Nobody has, imo. They just resort to repetition of their position, as you have done.

Even a Bible scholar would denounce your claim. What evidence is in the Bible? They are stories and teachings that are to be taken upon faith. Your told in the Bible that Jesus, a son of God (who you don't even have evidence for), came sometime to the world, died for your sins, resurrected and returned to heaven. A rational mind would reason "is this true?" then the next thing is "if you don't believe you shall perish in eternal lake of fire".. faith again.

herald9:
Flaws?
Do you mind pointing out some cause I think everything about nature is perfect, well scripted and acted out on daily basis...

If there was a hitch,we'd probably be suffering from it's consequences.

Plaetton answered you there. In addition, study this mode of nutrition called parasitic mode of nutrition. Two participants are involved; the parasite and the host. The parasite, usually smaller than the host, feeds on its host. The host doesn't benefit, it only gets harmed in the process. Example in man is the parasite Ascaris (roundworm) which lives in the intestine. It sucks digested food from its host. The worm itself is indigestible which makes things worst. It continues its activity which eventually results to abdominal pain, indigestion, anaemia and even death if they are many. Some like the hookworms cut holes into the intestinal walls, suck blood and other fluids.

Remember the ultraviolet ray from the sun that causes skin cancer.

sinequanon:
I know next to nothing about religious texts.

I am just saying that most people accept scientific assertions on the same basis as they do any [other] religious assertion, i.e on faith.

Faith is all about your "confidence" in a particular "belief".

If you gain your confidence "first hand", then you are furthest removed from faith. Anything else is degrees of faith, and that includes scientific assertions.

That's where you go wrong with science. Science is based on evidence. Religion is based on faith.

macof:
Faith is the assurance and confidence in things we expect. But there's always something that gives us this "assurance"...it's either we gain this feeling of confidence through logical thoughts or evidence by weighing the sides and going totally for one...with faith there's no room for doubt because ur mind has already gone through that and conquered it.
With faith you can bring others to ur beliefs without threats and fear but laying factual points that appeal to their cognisance.

You can't preach "have faith" to others or teach them how to have faith, you can only teach them what led u to faith and it's left for them to acquire that faith

Except what led to your faith isn't based on faith then it's no longer faith. Faith deals with assumption which is still faith.

Faith is not absence of proof but trust without reservation, that is to say complete limitless trust and this can only be attained when you have factual points, undeniable facts that you have seen that suggest it's plausibility...even when u haven't seen that thing u have faith on...say it is yet to happen

Example could be Having faith in Chelsea beating West brom at home, knowing fully well that West brom are injury stroke and have an even weaker team to face in form Chelsea.

Guess plaetton has answered you on that one.

Your only assured by assumptions that Chelsea would beat West brom. The result, in the end, may favour your view, and it may not. It doesn't neccessarily give you the future it only gives you the possibility.

sinequanon:
This is not a definition. It is a circular argument.

Who decides what is "scientific" or "plausible" or what constitutes a "test" or "demonstration" or "evidence"? You are transferring your faith to those people.

The current Wikipedia's definition is consistent with the general definition of faith and that from Heb 11:1.

Paul even has it in Romans 8:24b as

New Living Translation
If we already have something, we don't need to hope for it.

herald9:
Unarguably true.
But do you also doubt the existence of a Creator?
That's the reason I can't still come in terms with atheist.
As a deist,I don't believe in the gods invented by man...But I believe in a Creator who doesn't interfere in the activities of it's creation.

One question I can't always answer is why someone will build a house and abandon it. Why Did he build it in the first place when he had no intention of using it...

Maybe if you concentrate your time in studying the flaws in nature you could conclude that everything came by chance afterall. However, I do welcome the idea of Deism sometimes.

Syphax:
At bolded part,the first miracle Jesus performed in the bible was due to the intersection of The Blessed Virgin Mary.Its written in the bible that the prayer of the righteous availeth much,what it means is that God answers the prayer of the saints over that of sinners.Thats why we catholics ask Mary to pray and interceed 4 us.

Even when Romans 8:26 says it's the Spirit that interceeds for us and not Mary?

You wanted to know why Mary is important right?
Which reasonable human disregards hs mum and treats her anyhow?She is the mother of Jesus,this makes her the mother of the church.The fact that Jesus painstakingly handed her over to John shows that we have to respect her and love her.We don't worship her,we honour her.

Honour her? By kneeling, bowing and praying rosary before her statue? Doesn't the Bible say the dead has nothing to do with the living? Mary is dead. She's not aware of what your doing, as there's "no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave she has gone to"

Also know that Mary isn't the only person we ask to interceed for us,we also ask saints like St.Peter,St.Benedict,Dominic etc.

Even when the Bible clearly states that "Jesus is the Mediator between God and man"? And that "He's the way, truth and life"? And that "no one comes to Father but by Him"? And that "there's no other name apart from His name given by which men can be saved?"

Therefore,respect and honour her because she is the mother of the church.She is the new ark of convenant.

"My Glory I share with no one" says God, "for I thy God I'm a Jealous God"

FrancisTony:
1) Is bible scared to say [b]"these are Mary's sons and daughters"?

Is the Bible also scared to say, "these are Jesus's cousins?

2) If Mary had sons and daughters, Jesus would not have handed his mother to John. You say?

Remember Jesus dearly loved John. And perhaps he was the only one available at time. Also remember the brothers of Jesus didn't at first accept Him as the Messiah, they later, after Christ's dead, believed him. So it would be spiritually safe for Mary to be handed to a believer that would encourage her spiritual growth, as that's His principal mission - all be saved.

Syphax:
[color=#000000]I will answer this your question if you can answer mine-"is bowing d[own to your king in form of showing respect a sin?[/color]

Why should you ever bow to a statue? Going far as carving image and kneeling and praying before it, when your fully aware that the Bible prohibits idolatory?|

wirinet:
What you are saying in essence is that athough the king is dancing stark naked, faith makes people believe the king is fully clothed according to the fashion sense or preference of each believer or each set of believers.

wirinet:
I am surprised you did not get the allegory. Since you postulated that God cannot be proven, seen or tested but can only exist by faith in the mind of the believer, it is only comparable with the story of the King who was dancing naked, but the king's tailor made everybody believe be was wearing an invisible royal regalia ( i hope you know the story). People believed and told the king he was wearing the most beautiful royal regalia there is according to their faith, until a little innocent boy came along and told the king the truth.

Lol. Yeah.

FrancisTony:
I said you should provide where they wrote "these are Mary or Joseph's sons and daughters"

Did I ask you about Jesus brothers?

Oh well!
1. The Meaning of Brother
The first thing to understand is that the term brother (Gk.adelphos) has a broader meaning than uterine brothers. It can mean a biological brother, but it can also mean an extended relative, or even a spiritual brother.

Take Genesis 13:8 for example. Here the word brother is being used to describe the relationship between Abraham and Lot, who were not biological brothers but uncle and nephew:
“So Abram said to Lot, “Let’s not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herdsmen and mine, for we are brothers” (Gen 13:8, NIV; see also 14:12).

Because of the Bible’s broad semantic range of “brother,” we can rest assured that although St. Paul writes, “[Jesus] appeared to more than five hundred…brothers at the same time” (1 Cor. 15:6), we need not infer from this verse that Mary gave birth to more than 500 children!

2. Children of Mary?
These “brothers” are never once called the children of Mary, although Jesus himself is (John 2:1; Acts 1:14).


3. Other Women Named Mary
James and Joseph (also called Joses), who are called Jesus’ “brothers” (Mark 6:3) are indeed the children of Mary—Just not Mary, the mother of Jesus.
After St. Matthew’s account of the crucifixion and death of Jesus, he writes:
“There were also many women there, looking on from afar, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him; among who were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.” (Matt. 27:56; see also Mark 15:40) t

While I fairly admit that the term "brother" is ambigious, I however object that its ambigiuty can only be understood in the context of where ever it's used. Considering Mark 6:2-3 for example:

English Standard Version (ESV)
2 And on the Sabbath he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were astonished, saying, “Where did this man get these things? What is the wisdom given to him? How are such mighty works done by his hands? 3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.

We can safely infer here that the bolded is about the closed family of Jesus. Carpenter is universally and literally taken as Jesus's father. Mary is taken literally, too. It only becomes twisting when interprete brothers and sisters in a different way.

wirinet:
What you are saying in essence is that athough the king is dancing stark naked, faith makes people believe the king is fully clothed according to the fashion sense or preference of each believer or each set of believers.

I find this a bit difficult applying it to the argument I proposed.

holatin:
faith/ believe

Yeah. Doesn't sound like they are different, huh.

plaetton:
You have highlighted what most us have always insisted, .... That the proof of god is in the faith ( the head) of the believer.
Period.

And if faith ceases to exist then God ceases to exist.

So I was pondering on this verse about faith i.e Hebrews 11:1. Soon I began to realize the implausibility of any EVIDENCE/PROOF for God as long as FAITH is involved. Here are some translations of Hebrews 11:1

GOD'S WORD® Translation

Faith assures us of things we expect and convinces us of the existence of things we cannot see.

King James Bible
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

New International Version
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

International Standard Version
Now faith is the assurance that what we hope for will come about and the certainty that what we cannot see exists.

So I began to realize why John and Paul emphasize on faith in other to have any connection with God. They also knew that there could not be any proof for God's existence. The existence of God should be accepted by faith.

Trying to know more on faith, I looked it up on Wikipedia and I got this:

"Faith is defined as confidence or trust in a being, object, living organism, deity, view, or in the doctrines or teachings of a religion, as well as confidence based ON NO scientific, plausible, testable, demonstrable evidence whatsoever.

Again, there can't be any PROOF for God as long as FAITH is involved, for the availability of PROOF nulifies FAITH. And remember, without faith it's impossible to please God. To put Heb 11:6 in a clear term, your belief in God must be on the ground of no evidence only by this your acceptable.

Then no matter how theists try to find evidence for God they'll always fail if truly their God exists. In even trying to find, the are pulling faith down and displeasing their God.

Another interesting fact is if the evidence for God is in anyway possible then God is part of nature, and not supernatural. Take air for example, you can't see it but you can prove it exists. It then becomes nature and not supernatural. The same works with any possible proof for God.

Tag: Dapo777, Herald9, Dopeyomi, Francistony, Rossike, Pesty100, Realtem, Masonkz, Davien, Kay17, AtheistD, Plaetton, Logicboy7 and every rationalmind I don't have in memory now.

Not so fast Check this out

https://www.nairaland.com/1351508/hoax-alert-nasa-didnt-discover

FrancisTony:
You worship the yoruba elders that you prostrate for?

The argument about Jesus having brothers is for another day- I believe so.

This post is a run-away one Your do know well what I meant by postrating, bowing, beseeching in the sense of worship. You had no rebuttal, so you made that ridiculous post up there you savior however.

Do you mind providing a biblical proof that mentioned Joseph and Mary's children?

Woe to Mary? I am done here since you're an atheist.

Very well:















Matthew 1:24-25--"And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus."

Matthew 12:46-47--"While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."

Matthew 13:55--"Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"

Mark 6:2-3--"And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?"

John 2:12--"After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days."

.Acts 1:14--"These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers."

Gal. 1:19--But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord's brother."

Does rejecting Christianity automatically makes you an atheist?

FrancisTony:
More like you didn't read the Original Post.

Extract out an inclusive from OP that said we should worship Mary.

Well, when you're back from church, take your time to re-read it.

What do you call the act of bowing down before an object, giving reference to an object, postrating to an object? Isn't that worship? Going by the Hebrew word for worship which is "shachah" meaning "to postrate; bow down; give reference to; beseech, worship" will you still deny that you guys worship the statue of Mary, when the Bible doesn't teach you to?

There's nothing so special about Mary. As a matter of fact, Mary is longer a virgin. Jesus had brothers fathered by Joseph. She was a sinner while on earth. Jesus became the savior of Mary and her son on the cross, separating Himself from her by saying "mother behold your son, son behold your mother". Even, Jesus says in Mathew 11:11 that there's no one born of a woman that's greater than John! woe to Mary

FrancisTony:
More like "I can't debunk it", and these people's doctrine is aunthetic.

Next!

Debunk? Very easy.

If Mary seems to be very important, as you stretched in your post, in the Gospels even with the fact that Jesus and the Apostles never give the instruction of worshipping her but we deem it fit to worship her why do we make other important people; Peter, Paul, John etc, exceptional in the aspect of worship?

Paul admonishes us to pray for others. Going by your interpretation of that statement does that not mean my dad, mum, sis, bro and friends who pray for me are also mediators?

If Mary is very important why doesn't the Bible declare explictly her importance and need of worship? Why guess and infer from random reading?

Your facts doesn't still make any rational point to give those huge regards to Mary.

Off To Church

Weak Facts (yawns)

sweetchi26:
Dont wori,by d Grace of God u gonna get dere

Thanks sweet

DrSage:
Thirded

Fourthed?

sweetchi26:
i tout u were in for U.I?,saw ur posts on dat thread

Yeah sweet. But I didn't make it there, so I'm trying OAU this time around.

starlingleanets:
I had 233 in Jamb nd 241 in Post utme making 237 agg nd my departmental cut off mark was 270. Though many still gain admission with that agg but i guess 2013 Its not my time to shine but 2015 is.

2015? Let's go get it.

starlingleanets:
No qualms bro, have written once nd i got 241 in their post utme. dats was 2013 though

Why weren't you admitted?

Following.

Team#Biochemistry

DrSage:
wow
mbbs here

Yaga
That's cool

Ifyx:
m wishing y'all a prosperous xmas & an accelerated new year...
Feliz Navidad!


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Happy Boxing Day fella

DrSage:
wow
u an aspirant also?
wah course?

Yeah.

Biochemistry

DrSage:
i hope so bro,is dere a 2015/2016 thread for OAU aspirants?

Mehhn. I've been waiting for that thread to show up for long.

starlingleanets:
OAU bro

Too lazy to read everything posted in the previous pages so I'm gonna ask my questions here

Is it true that the exam date has been postponed to April?

Is it true that the syllabus for 2015/2016 is the same as 2014/2015?

Those are the ones I have for now

ednut1:
I dont believe in all dis crap. I attended unilorin anyways. I jst finished training school of a bank in nigeria. We were 25 in number. The best three students were from convenant and babcock. So forget hardwork . First class from unilag and ui cud not stand dem. U are good if ur good regardless of skul abeg. Dat public unis make life hard dnt mk dem good. There are some good private unis out der. If u hv money go. Stop hating

and learn to control your temper bro... whenever you feel pained.