₦airaland Forum

pranil:
You cannot do AC coupling with Grid Tie inverter. For one it is illegal currently till NERC releases Net metering regulation and grid code for distribution is updated( atleast 3-5 years away) . Hybrid inverter with SOLAR or battery priority is your best bet .
I tried to sketch something very fast see if it is legible .

I am always updating my system to play with it . Apart from the main equipment I do have remote monitoring of inverters , Remote AH display, Small generator power quality ( V,F,A,Pf,t ) etc. so check the performance.

My next step is to take the remaining 1 KW panels to roof with separate CC . Waiting for the aluminum prices to come down.

The only mechanical component is the ATS switch and generator - I use the ATS to supply the optional load like washing machine or dryer in case of emergency ( most of the May and june) which are 2.5 KW each .

Please let me know what you are trying to supply and I can suggest a optimal setup

wbr

Anil

My next project is to replace the batteries on the critical inverter with ultra capacitors to avoid continuous cycling

Barezzi:
Interesting thoughts...
I am currently in the process of upgrading my setup, but torn between ac coupling it with a grid-tie inverter or buy a hybrid inverter.

Can you post a block diagram of your setup?

You cannot do AC coupling with Grid Tie inverter. For one it is illegal currently till NERC releases Net metering regulation and grid code for distribution is updated( atleast 3-5 years away) . Hybrid inverter with SOLAR or battery priority is your best bet .
I tried to sketch something very fast see if it is legible .

I am always updating my system to play with it . Apart from the main equipment I do have remote monitoring of inverters , Remote AH display, Small generator power quality ( V,F,A,Pf,t ) etc. so check the performance.

My next step is to take the remaining 1 KW panels to roof with separate CC . Waiting for the aluminum prices to come down.

The only mechanical component is the ATS switch and generator - I use the ATS to supply the optional load like washing machine or dryer in case of emergency ( most of the May and june) which are 2.5 KW each .

Please let me know what you are trying to supply and I can suggest a optimal setup

wbr

Anil

chris81964:
Very intelligent question.
The reason is to allow us to bypass the inverter if we have a problem or need to service it. The SW has an optional AC breaker panel. It cost over 100k. The changeover is less than 10k. We used individual breakers in addition to the change over to arrive at the same result.
Schneider does not make it mandatory that you use their controller. I used an 80 amp FM that cost half of what the 80 amp Schneider controller costs. The generator start works if your customer has a generator that can be started by remote contact.

FYI. Here is the wholesale prices of the items you mention
2524 N393k
AC Panel / breaker N94k
DC Panel / Breaker N88k
80 amp C/C N392k
Gen start N50k.

Retail price is higher.
I saved my customer N450k by being creative and accomplishing the same thing. But I am sure you have a better idea. Please share so that I can try it.

Thank you for the lecture though.

I agree with you the price is on high side but you pointed out clean installation hence my opinion. I did not want to critisize but merely point out the issues with the installation Not many people realize the modern inverters like schinder or SMA are different utilizing AC coupling compared also to DC coupling only , and by not using this functionality the advantage of using a such a inverter is lost .

F.y.i. I am using a cheap but reliable china made gen controller with home hooked system to switch on my 5 KVA gen based on time of thh day and battery condition cost me less than 100 USD total plus cabling .

I have modified my system to avoid the small gen going to house or inverter by coupling the output of gen through a 3 KW DC power supply set at 54.3 V feeding into batteries effectively isolating the critical parts of my house from NEPA .

|So my system functions exactly reverse of that you have designed NO changeover at all infact no interruption to power unless the system is taken offline for maintenance. in such a case I by pass the inverter circuit to grid /main gen by using changeover cicuit

wbr

Anil

chris81964:
Here is another one. We did an installation in Ilorin. The client hired someone to perform service on the batteries. He poured out all the electrolyte and refilled it. He broke the battery switch and they hired an electrician to perform repairs. Look at the pictures and don't laugh too hard. He told them that the blinking AC light meant an air conditioner was on in one of the rooms. He had to bypass nepa because his connection crested problems. First two pictures are him. The last one is us.

Can I ask why is there Inverter generator changeover in the last picture ? The Conext SW has a separate DC panel and optional charge controller with GEN input in . In fact the correct way to do a clean job will be to use Conext SW charge controller , DC breaker and connect generator start to inverter . Right now the customer is spending more than half a million on inverter and getting a 200 K inverter function

bigrovar:
2 years is not bad Sha.. considering the price. What was the average DOD for the 3 years.


Not performance wahala o. They are still running ok performance wise. Just got home now and forgot to flip on the solar breaker after I turned it off last night after a thunderstorm. This allowed the battery to rest for over 8 hours and my voltage when I got back from work is 25.7 6 which is not bad. The wahala is FLA is like a fine city babe.. you gasto give her attention otherwise u no go enjoy am. You most not over charge it, it most not be installed in a place without proper ventilation, u have to make sure you equalise, get hydrometer to always check SG level haba. I don turn chemistry student finish. SMF no too get all this wahala. But I hope the Mercury Tubular is worth it Sha. If it can serve me for 3 years. I would be very happy.

If you want the absolute best ( trojan quality in SMF) look for varta
less than Double the price more than double life
- up to 800 cycles @ 50% DOD or 2,900 cycles at 70% DOD. - that is 5-7 years ( mine is already on 3rd year and delivering still 97 % capacity when tested in June

http://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/leisure/professional-deep-cycle-agm/

http:///varta-12v-260a-deep-cycle-batteries-lad-260-1930022

earthrealm:
@Bigrovar, nope...most hybrid inverters dont log data like conventional CC.
my morning star mppt CC records all harvest, wh/ah etc for either 6months or 3months...not sure again...ep solar 60amp does something similar, though i prefer the logging of morning star.

The new hybrid like Axexpert , MPP solar have USB data logger ( much better than the wahala of serial usb of morning star) - No new PC's come with Serial ports specially laptops that means you need to buy one more cable for USB to serial and maintain it's driver compatibility I have both . There are even third part software. The one I use called solar patrol not only measures data like solar harvest over any period but even measures things like heatsink and board temperature , instantaneous peaks , and many other things . It is almost reaching the SMA functionality . There is even a webserver built in so that I can see the data from any PC connected to network

I Can even change the inverter mode from Utility ( use Nepa) to Solar ( use solar even if nepa is there ) or battery bnased on timer( mine is set from 11 am to 3 PM)

bigrovar:
You certified EE friend is in need of urgent upgrade. The load side of a charge controller is not meant for running powerful load (the kind an inverter exert on your batteries) the load generally meant for small dc loads like lighting systems (some people use their cc to power their security lighting points as such can use the load aspect to make turning on of security lights automatic) You can also use the load aspect to design a low voltage disconnect setup, using a DC solid state relay with an AC disconnect (that's another story) Anyway on no condition are you suppose to connect your inverter to it. Check the connection schematics of any cc and you none would you see it where inverter is connected to the cc.. in fact you are always warned never to try it or you risk turning your cc into expensive metal.

If you want to save on NEPA most of the new hybdrid inverters have a abttrery or solar mode where they take from solar before switching to Grid

earthrealm:
NAAAH, STILL DOESNT ADD UP...THE TROJAN BATTS ARE RATED FOR 15 TO 20YRS, ....and cost abt 16% of the nickel iron batts.
comparing 120k......20yrs ------------------------------ trojans/us batts
700k.........30yrs and above..................... nickel iron
u can see that trojans carry the day, 2ndly i things change, in 30yrs newer and better batts wud hv been produced/developed, look at the 504/505 of the 70;s
anyway to each his own, this is just an academic exercise, i doubt any1 on this thread would go and buy such batts,,,,considering the price

The battery life is not measured in yers but no of cycles - typical Lead acid have life cycles of 1200 at 50 % dod while N- Fe have 11,000 at 80 % dod. there are scenarios where Ni-fe pay back e.g. usa /Germany where night tariff is much lower than the day so you charge the batteries during off peak and discharge during ONpeak keeping utility bill low. They are not to be compared in the same setup of solar power storage


Als Ni-Fe require a much tigghter regulation of individual cell voltage and temperature typically achieved by special charging equipment

Also they can be charged much faster

They are about 75% percent efficient on an energy in and energy out basis. he efficiency factor varies because of cell charging rates and the cell operating temperatures. As they age their efficiency flat lines until their useful life is up. Lead-acid batteries continually lose their battery capacity with age, so you waste less energy charging a 10 year old nickel iron than a 10 year old lead acid. If you have a back up generator then you also use far less fuel over the life of the battery. Why have to run a back up generator for 10 hours or more when you can run that same generator 5 hours to do the same thing? The cells are rated at a C/5 rate which means you can charge a 100 AH battery set for 20 amps for 5 hours. For that same 100 AH lead acid battery set yu woudl have to charge it up at a rate of 5 amps (a C20 rate - 100/20 = 5) for 20 hours.

bigrovar:
Interestingly Zinox engineer I spoke with confirmed to me that the Ipowerplus is actually based on Voltronic ‎Axpert and not MPP Solar. Some of the things I read about MPP solar online does not make me too comfortable with the product. Here is just one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33_V7vHk8Rs

That is a very old video made famous when the MPPSolar was using 60 V capacitors which blew up when any other charge controller was connected to system . This has been changed since in all models having 120 Amp chargers . And dont trux the zinox engineer if you compare the documentation or user manuals you will see they are exactly same. even the software for remote monitoring is same called watchpower .
the axeprt i Think is is sold under different brand and is with 50 amp charger . Normally a 60 amp MPPT charge controller only costs that much

but the choice is yours . Personally I am happy I could get a software monitored remote control system in under 200 K NGN similar SMA or schider setup will cost upwards of 1 million ( in fact SMA sunny island is around 2000 GBP) .

shithapuns:
@dejavus, am interested in that hybrid inverter u posted...whats the price and specs?
ipowerplus seems to b the cheapest hybrid inverter avasilable in nigeria, the other makes are much more expensive...defeating the the cost saving of going hybrid..

also zinox the marketers of ipowerplus appear unserious, cos even on thier website, the option to buy the product isnt there.

3rdly @ house...am looking for an offgrid inverter (without charging capability - this is to save cost),,,,1.5kva or 2kva 24v or 36v... who can hook me up with such?

I power is freeley available on sites such as Jumia ( sold out) and Konga
http:///ipowerplus-ipowerplus-2kva-24v-inverter-2401647

or contact charles - Chikwendu Charles

charles@zinoxtechnologies.com


Beware of other makes looking same as the original manufacturers ( MPP solar from Taiwan confirmed to me that others are copies made in china)

For pure inverter you will have to look at aliexpress for a cheap chinese make

dejavus:
Hi All, many thanks for all the wonderful information being shared on here.

I am curious though about people buy separate inverter and mppt charge controller when there are Hydrib inverters that does the same job now with probably less or the same amount of both combined, is there any specific reasons for this?

example below:

The separate charge controller and inverter might allow you to have higher rating on either charge controller or inverter than possible in hybrid say 60 amp charge controller but 8 kw inverter . Also they are likely to be more durable individually due to long history of development and heat dissipation

personally I prefer the Hybrid as they are invariably smarter with PC monitoring , generator start control , software settings etc. .Also Most of them can be stacked or paralleled so you can increase your rating both on load side and connect different solar strings ( makes , watts) to the same battery


Personally I am using two hybrid inverters powering two circuits one inverter runs 1000 watt powering only electronics and sensitive application ( runs like giant UPS) and takes the battery and solar inputs but never charges battery or is NOT connected to generator input. The other inverter runs on 1200 Watt solar but runs my waterpump .and two AC's plus non sensitive loads like compound lighting . This inverter is in appliance mode shifting to grid or generator whenever available and simultaneously charging batteries.
Both are connected to the same battery bank . so One inverter is essentially supplying the DC power through the battery bank whenever the grid or generator is running

without smart hybrid inverter such setup is impossible . Thsi allowed me to get rid of all the small UPS in the house essentially saving 200-300 watt load

wbr

Anil

shamecurls:
how much is 2.5kva prag

Does Prag sell the module to convert the extsing 5KW * advanced vertical) for solar input - what will be the max charge current and Voc supported

codeME:
@pranil
Thanks for the pictures and explanation, it is of great help, you must be a professor.



@ JUO yes it is this version of PRAG. I will try and upload. thanks.

Nope But I am consultant by profession( EHV volatges 330 and 132 KV). Got into solar when I could not find any good solution to my requirements and both my Father and mother were professors in Electrical Engineering

earthrealm:
@codeme, ur 4 battts shud discharge at same rate, its either they are not connected properly ...or the cables might be faulty/poor

@pranil, thanks for the chart, a quick question, i hv a 48v inverter with 4 units 12 v batts in series,...
when partially discharged, my batt reads 49.2v, with small load {2units of 70w ceiling fan} when i connect a small freezer to it {130w] the voltage drops immediately to 48.4v, is this normal...or are my batts weak

cc all house members

Voltage drop is normal. Are you measuring at battery or inverter terminals. ? if the battery interconnections are small size it will drop more Does it come back to 49.2 or 49.1 when small freezer is removed ?. You are safe even if it temporarily drops to 11 V under even load as long as it comes back up. 130 Watt is a small load. I load my 48 V ( 200 AH x 8 ) battries upto 5kw sometimes and they have no issues the voltage will definitely drop but recovers back to normal when the load reduces

codeME:
Hi all,
please help with these questions
I have a prag 24V inverter with 4 batteries, NO solar panel and charge controller yet but will come later, how do i know if my battery is charged since prag charge indicator will only work for a while and the indication will stop as if the charging is complete. so some questions
1. Can I test the batteries with multimeter while on power, actually has been doing this
2. What is the average DC volts in multi meter to know if the battery are charge when there is still a source of power (eg Generator or NEPA) and when there is no power.
3. What is the average lowest DC volts measured from multimeter when the battery is discharged
4. I noticed that most of the time, only battery 1 and 4 are seriously discharged while battery 2 and 3 remains almost the same while prag is showing that it is remaining 2 bars. Any explanation for this.

i checked online for examples of how to connect the batteries and it seems all is fine concerning battery connection.

Attached is a charging curve which also applies to prag a floating battery with charger connected is usually 15.5 x2 =27 V.
Battery on boost charge near end of charge will be 14.5x 2 =29V
= battery under load will show terminal voltage below 12.5 V x2= 25 V
Heavier the load lower the volage .so it is not good idea to check voltages on load unless you have a chart from manufacturere
The lowest voltage normally is 10.5x2 = 21V when fully discharged ( lower for a bad battery )

If the equalization programme is running the volths can be near 15 v x 2 -=30 V

I think On your prag the dip switch 8 is for equalization ( marked red) I suggest if the batteries are showing different terminal voltages run the equalization first ( disconnect on other things from battery if any except the prag) mand esnure atleast 4-6 hours of uninetruppted supply to the charger /inverter


The only way to know if a battery is good or bad is by capacity test ( how many Ah can it give) or internal resistance with specialized tester or specific gravity in case of flooded .

From my experience terminal voltage can give you false indications specifically as terminal voltage is also dependent of battery and outside temperature by a large extent

As a general rule batteries have a life based on DOD ( depth of discharge) Higher the Depth of discharge lower the life of thee batteries . if you have owned eh batteries from day one you can probably estimate the life

best luck

Inverter AC's

This post on nairaland explains LG best

https://www.nairaland.com/1832210/why-lgs-gen-cool-inverter

and this video on youtube


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ueIUEojI0

prices use google or visit local shops

http://www.pricecheck.com.ng/offers/1739102/Daikin+FTXV+35AV1+1.5hp+Inverter+Split+Air+Conditioner/

It is quite expensive compared to normal one but offers upto 70 % less energy consumption and there is no kick to the gen/inveter everytime compressor starts but the loading is smooth

Barezzi:
Absolutely nothing bruv... You can put any load on your inverter as long as it's properly rated for it, and you've got the benjamins for a huge battery bank!
With an inadequate battery bank, your back-up will be in seconds

If you use invert AC ( daikin and LG sell such models in Nigeria) you can easily run ac on normal 3.5 KVA inverter with 10 KWH battery bank. I run two such AC's on my 2 x 200 Ah x 4 battery bank with 2 KWP panels on 5 KVA inverter without ever reaching 50 % DOD .\The AC's have a power saver mode wihc take as low as as 300 watt in the night

bigrovar:
I would avoid MPP solar Inverters. There are known to break down after less than a year of use. Video is all over YouTube. I would recommend Axpert solar Inverters which is actually what zinox rebrand as Ipowerplus. It is very popular in Australia and south Africa

Most of the so called high frequency ( transformerless) inverters breakdown because people don't look at surge capacities- High frequency inverter have much lower surge capacity best suited for light duty ( lights- fridge , inverter aC ) if you want to load like AC or motors give 2 times the capcity up in your inverter.

Another common mistake I have seen people making in general is using wattage as a guideline . It comes from long legacy of grid not caring about the reactive component . your load composition will decide the KVAR and sometimes a 4 kw load can actually mean more than 5 KVA rating

Personally I a,m enjoying them in 3 separate installations without any issues

try MPP solar incase you have means of importing ( made in Taiwan) - they have models from 60 Amp upto 120 AMP on 48 V the only inverter I found in market with such a high charger rating -http://www.mppsolar.com/v3/pcm40486048-series/

available on aliexpress with Nigerain Naira cards also - http://www.aliexpress.com/store/all-wholesale-products/629424.html?spm=2114.12010108.100004.3.4Lnz3j

Many vendors in Nigeria such as Zinox(ipower) stick them with there own branding although the specs vary acrosss models in terms of amps so check when buying .

alternative on Jumia ( dont know the brand but MPP solar confirmed it is not there models and china copy) -https://www./protek-5kva-solarhybrid-inverter-4110770.html

Alternatively PRAG also has different models but for 60 amps you might have to choose 7.5 KVA or higher model

Hello,
We are looking to interview operators in Solar space in Nigeria who have worked with small /medium scale systems ( 5KWp to 50 KWp) particularity for small business/ corportaions or residential estates .
if interested pls. pm me with email and phone no. so we can interact further and I can better explain the objective and benefits

the primary aim of the study financed by world bank is " to assess the market conditions and demand of EE/small RE financing in general and off-grid solar technology financing in particular among Nigerian corporates and SMEs. It aims to provide local banks with better understanding of what business opportunities are emerging now and in the next three years, and what they can do to tap into this business niche"

wbr

Anil

bode4real:
@ all, got home 2day to b told dat my 1.4kva sukam inverter power switch nt functioning for past 2 weeks, tot it was d switch, but after removin d switch cable on d board stil refuse to power off. Every other tin on d inverter is workin well except not powering off. My family managed to power it off and on wit d breaker btw d inverter and bat3. PLS hope powering off and on wit dis breaker is safe? Also wot can b wrong. Wit d inverter. Thx

The switch is faulty - It can be replaced at a very small cost 1500 NGN - a good electrician can also do it . Off course when repairing take care to disconnect all power supplies.
The battery MCB will fail if you keep on using it to power off . It is meant only for maintenance duty .

wbr

Anil

TSHIRT2:
Pls my seniors advice me,pls i need a quick fix 4 my burnt 20a controller.
1:A 60amp pwm charge controler with lcd monitor and was said that can work with 2000w of panal. OR
2:A 40amp mppt charge controller without lcd monitor and said to work with 1000w of panel though not high end controla.
So which one shd i buy as quick fix 4 my 500w 12v system.All a product on Aliexpress.

I have a one month old Monringstar Tristar 60 AMP PWM with battery monitoring/temp cable and display ( TM-2) along with FLAT Serial cable and serial to USB adapter . I am happy to sell you as I will be moving to an MPPT charge controller/Charger/Inverter hybrid of 5 KVA . I am willing to sell NGN 40,000 for charge controller , 20,000 for display - all other stuff comes free if you buy both together ( almost 10,000 NGN value)



wbr

Anil

Thanx offered the owner 2.2 million in ABUJA is that OK

Can you check this VIN for me please.

1HGCM56683A002041 - it is 2003 Honda Accord Four cylinder and the VIN checks out on CARFax but I can get the report because of VISA card problem-


THANX Got the information from another source . Report no Longer necessary

Can you check this VIN for me please.

1HGCM56683A002041 - it is 2003 Honda Accord Four cylinder and the VIN checks out on CARFax but I can get the report because of VISA card problem

Where and How can I inspect it. reply pranilatmyway.com

Any photos. I am in Abuja but I can get a friend to inspect it

There are two options
1. PCMCIA Card - cost around 12,000 to 16000
or Extrenal USB tuner cost 8000-14000
I recommend on eby Intex - External USB tv at 10,000
That way Us can use it to watch TV/ Comnect handy camp or VCR and in case of lighning the box will be damamged and not ur laptop


I am using one myself and I get both normal channels and DSTV through the box

AVG ping to yahoo 650 ms
to google.com 550 ms
to cnn 650 ms

How do i know it is STA 3 or VSAT ( i Think VSAT pings will be higher)

Here is the tracert

C:\Documents and Settings\anil>tracert www.yahoo.co.uk

Tracing route to www.euro.yahoo.akadns.net [.3.11]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 56 ms 50 ms 53 ms 193.219.222.194
2 607 ms 603 ms 593 ms 193.219.204.1
3 595 ms 594 ms 628 ms 66.178.112.17
4 599 ms 623 ms 614 ms 66.133.55.193
5 589 ms 598 ms 609 ms 66.133.55.213
6 625 ms 629 ms 633 ms unknown.Level3.net [63.210.59.241]
7 621 ms 608 ms 604 ms ae-1-55.bbr1.Washington1.Level3.net [4.68.121.12
9]
8 645 ms 677 ms 669 ms as-0-0.bbr2.London2.Level3.net [4.68.128.110]
9 686 ms 688 ms 669 ms ge-4-0.hsa1.London2.Level3.net [4.68.117.7]
10 692 ms 659 ms 659 ms 195.50.112.102
11 667 ms 674 ms 663 ms ge-0-1-1.bas2.msr1.ukl.yahoo.com [.0.215]

12 665 ms 668 ms 658 ms alteon1.34.ukl.yahoo.com [.6.6]
13 670 ms 679 ms 672 ms www2.vip.ukl.yahoo.com [.3.11]

Trace complete.
----------------------------
Downloads are great - downloading Vista RC2 right now- avg KB/sec is 15.4 on 128 K which is great

The only problem I have with them is that they have not been able to setup port fowarding for me to use torrent clients.
so downlaods are horrible. No lost seson 3 for me now.

Sorry Did not see the post earlier. Iwas in ur situation 1 month back desperate to get brodband after tastin g it abroad.

I have checked all options
VSAT / GSM-GPRS/Netcafe TDMA all. Here is the best solution

Startec . They cover Abuja with Wi Max _ Radio Modem And reach as far as 25 KM

Here is their package

Startup fee 10,000 Naira ( which covers installation equipment)

Three months in advance -


Connection is always on no download limit

64/96 ( up/down) - 7600
96/128 - 12500
256/128 ( 22,500)


reply if u want more infomation . Their office is opposite ministry of finance i( CBD)n Next complex to Katsina house. Sorry don't have phone number

But get the connection u won't rgret it


Anil

DONE. till today Friday Night 22.09 9 PM