₦airaland Forum

Idrismusty97: But if it will be a must i will rather use the money to acquire quality education in Ghana or elsewhere not Nigeria.

Ghana...You see now? I wish Nigerians would wake up and smell the roses, and realize that Ghana is fast becoming the sub-regional power (wonder why?) I frankly don't know the contents of ASUU's playbook, but I don't think any sophisticated countermeasures are needed.

Boss13: Have universities approach Corporate Nigeria to request for financial assistance. BIG NO.

Ha, Boss, don't make me laugh. You say it with such emphasis that one would think you know if for a fact. *Personally*, I have reached out to companies in different ways. I know many others who have done the same. Of course, they didn't bite, and for good reason. For starters:
1. Competition in Nigerian industry has not reached a stage where companies really gain much by innovating (I expect top be called out on this one)
2. Consequent on 1, the companies see nothing I (or others) have to offer them that will affect their bottomline (remember, they are profit-making entities)

Long story short, you actually don't *know* most of what you think you *know* about this system.

* just to be clear, when I say "reach out" here, I do not mean appealing for sponsorship of programs etc. I mean funding serious work.

Boss13: They collected 1 year unpaid allowance and they did not tell the general public about it. What is that telling you.

Please lets stick to facts. FG released 30 billion on allowances and told *the whole world* about it. They want the universities to distribute this "up-front" to serve as a poisoned chalice. Although university managements are under intense pressure from other unions to give them their shares, ASUU has rejected such, in no uncertain terms. If you do a simple Google search, you will find reports about ASUU urging Unilorin not to disburse said funds. Lets stick with facts. It helps a lot.

texazzpete: I am totally thrilled that you have taken yourself and your inane, defeatist logic out of this conversation. I read your initial posts with mounting disbelief that anyone could be so silly.

You write beautifully by the way

drered: Where I feel ASUU went terribly wrong is not carrying the students along. Before your explanation, honestly I wasn't even taking sides.

I agree with you. ASUU could have done a much better job getting the facts out. I opened this thread partly to right that. There is a chance that government will not accede to ASUU's demands at the end of the day, but the more likely scenario is that both parties will shift ground. I just hope months won't be lost before that happens. The ball is currently in FG's court though.

Idrismusty97: yea,thanks for your understanding.It seems government has finnaly implement thier "no work no pay policy".will ASUU still continue with the strike?

Let me ask you a question. If ASUU caves in and allows school fees to be jerked up to, say, N500,000 per session, how is that a loss to the union? Please think carefully about that, and I think you are more likely to hope ASUU doesn't take that route. Actually, I do not think ASUU will break. It is not going to be easy, but I think ASUU is prepared.

There are however those that, were the strike to continue for long enough, would simply leave the country.

Idrismusty97: Comment like this is what made me come up with that tone.You keep mentioning your struggle,your sweat and the likes.With wisdom any organization will rise with little or no resources.What i am trying to imply is that ASUU did not contribute to the success of unilorin period.

Thats okay. Can we leave the Unilorin issue now?

Idrismusty97: Unilorin lives only on there common sense to shine.Lukily the issue of sharing of allowances is handed over to TEFUND.by observing your above comment,If it is in ASUU hand i am sure unilorin will not have a dine from it.Are you trying to say that unilorin dont need any FG fund?,Are they not part of the 64 government tertiary institutions of Nigeria?

Come, no need to take that tone. I called unilorin lecturers my colleagues. I said whatever improves tertiary education in Nigeria is cool, even the progress of unilorin. What makes you conclude then that I would withhold money (since for the purpose of this discussion, I am ASUU, hehe) from unilorin?

I just took the stand that it is unfair that unilorin gets to benefit from the results of our struggle, and worse yet, act holier-than-thou about it. What is so wrong in that view?

obasy09: Which one should come first?- the funding or eradicating the obvious rot in the system?!

Oho, so it is so easy to stamp out rot or corruption in Nigeria? Pray tell me WHERE IN THE WHOLE OF NIGERIA is rot-free o? Or can you provide evidence that the universities are more corrupt than *anywhere* else in Nigeria?

uzoexcel: @ prof femi plz i would need ur input in the second paragraph of my post.
btw, thank you again for spending your time 'trolling' with us in a matured manner... . God bless

So sorry I skipped your post first time and second time! I'm seriously overworked, and no pay

I believe your second paragraph is the one that talks about outdated curricula and teaching methods. Look, I'll be honest with you. The mentality of many academics is just not it. These things require a level of effort that many of us are just not wiling to give.

Having said that, there is some fine print o.

- one big problem is that the under-funding of education provides a glut of academic jobs, and lectures end up jumping from school to school. With such a high demand on the few "good" (hehe) lecturers, people sometimes have little time to invest in their real day jobs

- there are little or no room for us to demand more of ourselves (not just in lecturing o, its all over the country). One of the bitter lessons I learnt early on is that you are not supposed to tell someone how he could have done something better (forget about telling nicely; just don't do it!)

- not to sound like a broken record, but it comes to the same thing: fund education and demand performance. You will be able to recruit a new crop of smart guys and as someone has suggested, rebirth academia

U235weapongrade: "BETTER BY FAR" - Prof Na wa for you O.so u get bad mouth Like dis

lol @bad mouth. Actually it just sort of came out that way, I wasn't planning to be snarky.

Idrismusty97: Here is your ranking prof.

http://www.4icu.org/ng/

Unilorin came 5th and i assured you prof,The longer the strike progresses,unilorin will rise to the top in Nigeria and even african.

No worry. What I want you to wonder is: with all the strikes the other universities have been suffering, why has unilorin not left others behind? Look Karma is a [ ]. We academics are often a principled lot -otherwise I wouldn't even be lecturing in Nigeria! - and believe me, Unilorin will continue to do well (amen) but they will not leave others behind solely because they did not partake in the strike. If they do so, it will be because they are smarter than us.

[quote author=au.hanson]ASSU may have their own pros and cons, why not just fund education well as it is done elsewhere to produce genuine professionals for to days manpower? then compel ASSU to deliver?[/quote]You sir, must be Daniel ("a Daniel has come to judgement". I agree wholeheartedly.

obasy09: The solution actually lies in genuine rebirth of the academia. The academia that is desirous to make impact in the society without expecting too much in return and the larger society that is ready to shun and ridicule materialism, eulogise people of character and achievers- the society that is ready to hold elected/appointed leaders accountable, devoid of sentiments but based on sound judgement. Without changing our value system, there is no solution in sight even if ASUU is given 100% of the budget!

Hmm. You raise heavy issues. How does one change a value system? Its a weighty one, but I can give you the solution in simple terms:

FUND THE UNIVERSITIES TO ADEQUATE LEVELS BUT INSTALL ZERO-TOLERANCE POLICIES AGAINST LAZINESS, CORRUPTION, AND INEPTITUDE.

Boss13: Now prof your prayer is that I do not gain public office that will have anything to do with universities because believe me it will not be funny and I am not joking. Jonathan is kind with ASUU nonsense. Me I will revolutionised the system and where your colleagues will not work I will sack them, increase the salary and recruit the 1st class students to take up their jobs. Guess what, I will put the military at university gates to frown very hard. I am angry with you and your ASUU colleagues. I personally do not know you. You may be nice, however do not see my emotional outburst as prejudice to you or your colleagues. The excesses of lecturers are too much to keep mute about. They are a pain to students on a regular day and yet are causing more pains again with this strike.

Hmm. People often become so embittered by the experiences they go through that they can carry out acts in haste that they end up regretting.

My friend, what you have just narrated IS A TESTIMONY to the problems facing the universities:

- inadequate funding
- (some) inept or unprofessional lecturers

Your exposure abroad should also reveal to you how universities are run. You know the truth, but you are allowing your dislike of ASUU to cloud your judgement.

ASUU and tertiary education in Nigeria are totally different things. You are allowed to hate ASUU, but that does not mean you should not acknowledge the truth. Heck, even I "hate" ASUU . I usually cannot stand unionists, with all their Maxist ideas and conspiracy theories. But on this one, o, ASUU is right. Tertiary education is worth fighting for with everything we've got. I have been pounding away at my keyboard for hours, in dire need of food, but I always feel "let me convince this one person". Its *that* important to me.

furezra: Prof Femi thank you. Since Federal Government isn't listening to this plea, why don't you call off the strike and fight another time. Also schools generate income. You get income from school fees from students, Rent for stores, transport services. I believe you can source funds from within to run the school very well. Most school leaders are corrupt like FG. They don't have the students at heart

All your questions/suggestions have been answered previously. I'm sure you're not too lazy to read long posts

Idrismusty97: All we do is complain of how bad our education is,we criticize everything without actions but i will tell you one thing prof.I HAVE NEVER SEEN A MONUMENT ERECTED FOR A CRITIC.Unilorin has shown corresponding and positive action to Nigeria education.

I should be clear. I respect that University of Ilorin seems to have a clear sense of what they want to do. They are my colleagues and their success is also my success. If you have read my posts carefully, you will realize that I want TERTIARY EDUCATION IN NIGERIA to come up (not ASUU as a union). Anything that brings that dream closer should be lauded. If we have to fire all the lecturers to do it, fine. If the students are the ones that checkmate us, cool.

However, it is just unfair that Unilorin lives on the sweat of others to shine. They would not be anywhere close to where they are today but for the valiant fight of others.

Posterity evens everything out long-term.

Idrismusty97: Yes to all prof!.Never forget this saying "An idle hand is the devil work shop"Unilorin are always busy finding an alternative in building up Nigerian undergraduate inspite of the falling educational system of nigeria.You once spoke about aikido.Well to put it short unilorin is an aikidoka. You can see for your self,

Unilorin has its successes. It also benefits from goodwill because people see them as more organized, whereas, most of the benefits they are enjoying are fought for by our sweat and the tears of our students.

But more to the point: even with all of that, please pick up a ranking of the universities in Nigeria (either webometric or by pure research) to see whether university of Ilorin is "better by far".

Boss13: Have your colleagues told the general public what the money will be used for?

Perhaps my colleagues made the mistake of thinking that the average Nigerian is so ignorant, selfish and me-now that informing them if what they want to do is a waste of time. Me I don't feel that way, which is why I would spend so much time here.

Has the government told you that they don't know what infrastructural needs there are? Are you aware of the existence of a report on the needs assessment exercise carried out on the universities

I will also tell you that the reason why our economy is not growing exponentially is because you and your colleagues are not thinking. We have local problems/issues and our academics are saying if you want me to solve these problems give me money

I agree with you that the current class of lecturers has not been able to pull their weights enough in moving the country forward. Two reasons for that. First, as I have emphasized all day, we are not able to recruit the best students year in year out, meaning that you are more likely to find inept lecturers than if you had a functional system. Secondly, the tools we need to work are often not there. Let me tell you, *I* have a legacy I want to leave, and by God's grace, I am finding a way to etch it out bit by painful bit. However, it is hard work, and I can appreciate why many of my colleagues would just give up and act "sidon look".

You have also failed to explain why lecturers still teach from outdated curriculum and never try to update themselves with recent happenings or adapt to the ever changing world of today

Dude, I'll speak for myself. For every hour of class I teach, I prepare no less than 4 hours on average. *I* can teach in essentially any university in the world (if not at the PG level, at least at the undergraduate level), bar my accent. I am a teacher, proud to see the faces of students light up when I enlighten them. I know colleagues who can make the same boast.

Are there lecturers doing what you said? Yes. But as I have complained over and over again, is part of the problem not that you are not recruiting the right people

You have also failed to explain why ill-equipped lecturers are hostile to students and molest their students.

There are indisciplined lecturers, just as there are such in the ranks of every profession in Nigeria. Why is that new to you?

You have also failed to say what lecturers are doing to curb cultism that is robbing us of talented youths.

Cukltism is a social vice. Lectures can only try to do what they can, but the root causes are social.

Now why should I believe you that once these monies have been disbursed, that you and your colleagues will implement whatever so called reasons that have warranted for this strike action.

It is your choice to believe us or not. I have performed what I consider my responsibility to posterity by informing you. Believe what you must.

oxford: in my interaction thus far with the prof he has admitted that:

1. Some part of ASUU demand is silly - like asking for the transfer of landed property to university

2. If he is in GEJ shoe he wont met ASUU demand in full riight now but will explain to them "sincere" position of things

3. Most lecturers are unqualified, corrupt and unfit to be in the university system

having made him admit the aforementioned, i have no further interest in this discussion.

Thank you all

I am saddened that you turn out to be a lying coward. Is this the import of our discussion? Thank God people can read for themselves.

awodman: 1) when ASUU went on strike in July they said its emphatically about their allowance and they won't call off until the allowance is paid in full..Isn't it deceitful for ASUU along the way to now turn around to claim they are fighting for the good of education like your post suggests

I think, if you read my post, it either makes a case for the challenges facing education, and why I feel the ASUU strike is for that cause (as well as our allowances, which I never apologized for. We earned them). You can either agree with the arguments I made in my post, or fault them. I will meet you when you fault them.

2) How did ASUU calculate that their earned allowance is. 87 billion because my source tells me that calculation was not done in conjunction with FG

Has the government come out at any point to reject ASUU's calculations? To the best of my knowledge, the calculations were done using formulas that were agreed to (at least in principle, if nothing else) with government. If government wanted oversight over the process, don't tell me NUC could not have done that for them.

3)you raised up an issue about taking 70 billion from TETFUND to make up a huge part of the 100 billion released by Govt..but the question is the lead of the team who participated in securing this money is an ASUU executive..why didn't he cry out at that stage

You speak as if they sat on this for months, with the ASUU guys agreeing all along and then suddenly crying out. Like I told someone earlier, working with government, there is so much smoke and mirrors that one needs to be careful. I assure you that when the ASUU guys realized what was happening, they objected at the earliest opportunity. That is the information I have and I will stand by it until corrected.

4) why is it that why we universities keep crying about lack of funds much of TETFUND grant is left unaccessed
Even grants meant for scholarship studies by you guys
www.nairaland.com/1471143/n73.87-billion-tetfund-grant-left

Good question. I admit to you that part of this is down to academics themselves. You see, there is red tape in the system. On the other hand though, most of the red tape is there because of heavy-handed attempts at installing check and balances. However, I am also made to understand that the government often frustrates implementers by refusing to release funds at the right time.

5)Lastly like octopus asked what is responsible for the low quality of graduates in the social sciences who don't need laboratories[/quote]Rubbish begets rubbish. When we started running a system that could not recruit or retain good lecturers in ANY discipline, we started a process of watering down the quality of our departments, be they computer engineering or philosophy. Over many "generations" of recruits, the quality has gone down. Also, the absence of effect accountability systems has allowed people to just coast along, neglecting self-development.

orgasticdance: @ prof.femi u keep emphasizing that tertiary education is so important. but i respectfully disagree and assert that within the nigerian context, primary and secondary education should be the priority not tertiary education. we are not an industrialized nation yet! In germany, america and many other industrialized societies, tertiary education flourished in the 18th and 19th century because industrialization created the need for a steady stream of trained employees and research institutions also developed to further the research required by industry/society. What we need is to ramp up the investments at the primary and secondary level in order to have majority of our citizens attain basic quantitative and literacy skills; vocational and technical institutions should be encouraged but they should spring out to serve the needs of industry and not vice versa. we have all these tertiary institutions that end up churning out graduates into an already saturated job market because our institutions are currently serving a non-existent need. All the money in the world dished out to ASUU will not solve the larger problem of job scarcity and lack of industrialization.

Can I ask you: when should we start to *plan* to be industrialized? Even if government injected those funds today, the real impact would not be felt till 10 years (my random estimate). Per my opinion, you're making two mistakes:

1. The context is different now than it was when the US and the others you mentioned came up. We run a *global*, mobile economy now, which means that the NEED created by industrialization elsewhere is felt EVERYWHERE. Otherwise, can you explain why countries such as India and Taiwan are benefiting so much from industrialization primarily in the US

2. That government cannot address the problems of education at all levels simultaeously. Can you please tell me what aspects of primary and secondary schools are so hard (or expensive) to repair that government needs a pass from taking care of the universities to tend to?

Idrismusty97: How did unilorin recruit good lecturers. Ever since unilorin pull out of ASUU strike they have been progressing rapidly

When you say Unilorin has good lecturers, what exactly does that mean? That on average, the undergraduate degree class of Unilorin lecturers is better than other universities? That on average, they publish many times more (and better) than other universities? Please enlighten me.

Kingspin: The decay in our education is beyond the issue of bring money. The same challenge in the educational sector is also found in power, oil, football etc, it all a National problem. So to start getting it right attitudinal change, obedient to rule of law need to get involve, our people need to be re-oriented positively. Than for our education sector the foundation which is at the primay and secondary school level need to get it right 100% than shall the universities graduate or produce a quality graduate. Good input (basic) good output (university). We need to go back to the basic level of education. The type of university graduate we have today could be trace to the qualities of our primay and seconday school. We should to do more at the basic level than shall the quality of the output (graduate) is guarantee.

If you read my post at all, I stressed that one primary difference between tertiary education and other levels is that tertiary is much more expensive. I totally agree with you that we need to take care of all levels, and that students are damaged right from the lowest levels. But ASUU is a union of *tertiary education* teachers, and we start the fight from there. If you pay careful attention, you will notice that ASUU usually speaks for all tiers of education, but of course, must focus its fight on the most pressing aspect to it.

cowleg: [size=30pt]PRIVATE UNIVERSITIES ARE FUNDED THROUGH A HEAVY TUITION FEES, WHY ARE THEY NOT YET LIKE AMERICAN OR GHANAIAN UNIVERSITIES??[/size]

Hahaha. You have no idea what you've unearthed here. Read my lips: expensive as the thing private universities are, they are still not charging enough to provide the infrastructure, or recruit the international-caliber staff they need to be like US universities.

I'll translate for you: even the N1 million some universities are charging their students is NOT enough to properly fund the institutions to standard. And here we are fighting government to let you earn a degree while paying (N25,000?) and you're kicking us.

cowleg: DOES ASUU HAVE ANY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS TO TELL AN ELECTED GOVERNMENT HOW TO RUN AND PLAN THE FUTURE OF A COUNTRY??

Does a mother (a stakeholder) need constitutional rights to warn a father who is determined not to plan for the future of his family?

Boss13: Why is ASUU is so concerned about their unpaid earned allowances than repositioning the tertiary institution in the country

That's a fallacy. If ASUU were only concerned about allowances, the strike would be over by now. The big problem for government is that they are balking at the amount ASUU is suggesting they need to inject to improve infrastructure.

The success of every economy lies on the strength of its education. We have so many problems/issues (economic, social, financial and otherwise). Why can't our universities develop solutions to these our problems?

You're putting the cart before the horse. How can our educational system contribute to the country when we have not invested enough in it?? It is easy to point to the huge contributions of universities abroad. My brother, do you know how much the respective governments pumped into those universities first? When the universities are not attracting the best minds, when the right facilities are not in place, how do you want the universities to contribute *meaningfully* to the country?

You claim that the main reason for the strike is provision of infrastructure in tertiary institution - Why kind of infrastructure are you talking about?

Perhaps you expect me to start mentioning expensive stuff like transmission electron microscope, no be so? My brother, all this money we are talking about can not even do that. We are still at the level of providing enough oscilloscopes so that a graduate of elect/elect will at least touch one before he graduates. We are still at the level of ensuring that students of chemistry use bunsen burners and not stoves. I am saying, drop even the 400 billion for the universities, and each one gets around 3 billion. 3 billion can only do so much.

It is after we are able to graduate students who have been exposed to all the *basics* we are not exposing them to now that we can then have a sound enough postgraduate system that can sustain the sort of research that requires things like the TEM etc that I mentioned.

Man, we have a long way to go in this country, and I sometimes still wonder why some of us are "throwing away our careers" here...

We have encountered, witnessed, listen and read about unruly behaviours of lecturers/teachers - What is the true role of lecturers in tertiary universities? Who should held accountable for these nonsense ill-behaved lecturers? What is the role of the Nigerian University Commission (NUC)?

These are questions that require long answers but you and I know the answers. In Nigeria, there are no mechanisms to hold anyone accountable for anything. The universities are no different.

I'm going to turn the tables on you students now. Did you notice that I, as a lecturer, have suggested a couple of ideas that students can build up to demand accountability from their lecturers? Have you noticed that there are few, if any takers?

nejifresh: I'm of the opinion that our University Education needs to be privatized, and student loans should be issued by gov. This will encourage competition and improve the quality of education. It will also make students sit up and stop running around with one cult gang or the other.

Do you know the consequences if what you are suggesting happens? I don't think you really do. All of you are so eager to chase the poor lecturers out of the university (news flash: I AM TOO) that you're not thinking through workable ways to make it happen.

There is no dancing round the issue: education needs to be properly funded, if only to replace the lecturers you all hate so much.

zeelo2014: The major problem in our educational system is the standard & attitude of the lecturers. Most are incompetent, teaching the same thing since the 70s. Imagine Electronics engineering lecturers still teaching about cathode Ray tube(CRT) in 2013!,teaching archaic programming languages simply because they don't know the modern ones and they've refused to update themselves instead fighting for who to be HOD,Dean & VC. They treat students like their long time enemies,act like gods,no new research,no findings,we have local problems that requires local solutions but they are nowhere to be found, just recycling old textbooks from India as theirs. No difference between a lecturer & a mere civil servant,same lackadaisical approach. I remember back then in school I missed a class test & I begged this young lecturer with the belief that he's young & different from those sadistic old timers. After much pleading he told me to come to his office,with speed I got a paper & entered his office lo & behold a female coursemate was already there sitting close to him gisting romantically. The man raised his head & looked at me disgustingly,barked at me to get out of his office,that he's busy & would infact not attend to me anymore. I swear if I see that man walking on the road I go jam am.

Yes, yes. But like I have asked everyone and no one seems to be ready to answer, how do you suggest we recruit good lecturers to replace the bad ones How many first class students do you know who want to lecture? Can you kindly tell me why?

tchigofigo: ...at least u admitted u were totally FLOORED! Tnx 4 being sincere..

Hahaha, bro, I've got two words for you (okay, more than two words )

1. You've got to understand sarcasm dude
2. Ma be (don't jump to conclusions). Why don't you follow my interaction with oxford to the end (for now) and then come back and crow??

[quote author=eguity&justice]but op my question to u is, if u are the president would u honour the agreement? the reason i am asking this is that GEJ was once an ASUU member and i believed that he was in suport of ASUU then.[/quote]I have answered someone else that as president, I would do everything I could (without busting the economy) to get tertiary education on its feet. Of course I would have every right to try to separate ASUU and tertiary education as two different topics. I could chose to try to be harsh with ASUU, but I would never toy with the really critical funding issues.

Yes, I hear GEJ was once a lecturer. However, that don't mean jack-squat. My people have a saying that translates to "young rascals don't disappear when they grow old. They just become old rascals". Please I am *not* trying to abuse his excellency (or calling him a rascal!). I am simply saying we need to ask "what sort of lecturer was he when he was a lecturer" Perhaps that would be helpful in understanding this issue?

vislabraye: Private organizations and individuals can also help. We have Shell, Chevron, Mobil and the likes. The lecturers also need to be sincere too. You can't just heap the whole blame of the govt.

Good point. There are many options in rebutting it, but I will rely on the easiest.
Even if you want to "force" companies to invest in universities, it is government that can make that happen. Of course, companies are not usually *forced* abroad, but that is only because the universities have become so good that they have something valuable to offer the companies.