₦airaland Forum

Olril18: did u know about labour law at all?? it says any union that strikes for more than 3 months have no right to their withheld arrears..

Can you mention ONE union in Nigeria that has had to forfeit its salary arrears long-term because it went on strike? Not only do we have to fight FG to fund education so you guys can get a better experience, we also have to fight a rearguard with the same whelps we are fighting for sniping at us.

Olril18: and u cares about ur opinion mr lecturer??are u not part of the rot??biased ASUU member trudging nairaland.just go get a life.

You don't have to care about my opinion, but if you indeed aspire to be an educated mind, then you would care to educate yourself with FACTS, and stop asking inane questions like whether ASUU strikes have achieved anything over the years. You don't have to ask me, ask your seniors what your university used to look like in the early 90's, and compare with what it looks like now. Then come back here and ask that question again.

Ask yourself also why your school fees are so low (that is, if you are smart enough to be in a federal university), and again, you would have ASUU to thank.

Look young man, I do not mince words. There is rot in the system. A lot of it is caused by lecturers themselves. ASUU itself fumbles from time to time. That however does not mean we do not have outstanding and patriotic lecturers, and neither does it negate the valiant efforts of ASUU in getting the FG to take tertiary education more seriously.

Olril18: has ASUU ever contributed positively to our university system other than be a striking union??

can u tell us how this senseless strikes had shaped and improve the university system??

are the fg also the people who teaches with obsolete course outline,demand sex from female and money from males??,used plagarised hand outs??,and being lazy to go to to class and teach...did u recongnised this is also a sort of decay??

can u pintpoint the positives of the previous ASUU strike,other than the fact ASUU soon embarked on another??

have u read the 2009 agreements??,did u see all ASUU selfish demands that outweigh the improvement in infracstructures they claimed they are fighting for??

Mr. Olril, you make a lot of noise for one who is so ignorant. Obviously, this issue is beyond your pay grade, as there are so many obvious misconceptions in your posts. I have thought carefully about how to respond to your post without being insulting. All I can say (with all sincerity) is: Yes, you have reasons to feel aggrieved, and ALL sides in this issue must share the blame BUT you seriously need to educate yourself properly if you're going to go ranting all over the place. That way, you wouldn't look so --- [I can't find an accurate word that you will not consider an insult].

texazzpete: Actually, ASUU has won this round. No matter what happens, the FG is now bound to pay in N200bn per year for the next 5 - 6 years...and the earned allowances will be paid. Nerves are being frayed at the moment, but it's clear which side is going to be funding the other side. Reason has won finally

Actually I was wondering what the [expletive] theoctopus was talking about. I winced when he said "...has has not only lost this strike, they have lost their reputation". Seriously? Anyway, FG can console itself with that lie as it sullenly does the right thing that ASUU has forced it to do.

<sarcasm>Yeah, sure we lost</sarcasm>. Just get with the program, pay the N200b, and let us get closure on this issue.

agabaI23: According to Okupe, the FG wanted an MOU to be signed by both parties after the meeting but ASUU preferred letter of comfort (whatever that means). He said this before Fagge who did not counter it. That's the annoying part.

Fagge has said time and again that ASUU NEC does not have executive powers. They could not sign an MOU until they got the backing of the branches.

theoctopus: If you sit here and say that the government has not really shown commitment to the extent that the President himself sits down at the table with ASUU, then you are really very dishonest.

I have never heard before, both within and outside Nigeria, where the President would come to table with a group like ASUU. Never before. That is the last bus stop of any negotiation. It is an insult what ASUU is doing and they are setting a very bad precedence. No C in C will ever sit down with them again, you can take that to the bank. Whether it is GEJ of any other president because of this their action.

I do not know why this surprises you so much. The Jonathan government has seriously eroded the credibility of the Nigerian Presidency,and what you are seeing is that people no longer take them at their word. Ordinarily, this should be cause for the GEJ government to hang its head in shame, and reflect on how low it has sunk, rather than another opportunity for ego-tripping.

A C-in-C would not ordinarily need to even intervene in labor matters; in the US, even the *lowest* employee empowered to speak on behalf of the POTUS is taken at his word. In Nigeria, you have a serving Senate President saying that those who signed an agreement did not know their left from their right, never mind that the incumbent president approved the same document!

On the other side, the silence and total disdane that ASUU showed between the time they met with the president to this week is just very sad.

I personally agree that it was a big insult to the Presidency and students to keep silent for so long. However, that is no reason to now become recalcitrant. FG should berate ASUU on their obvious tardiness, but do the needful.

Thirdly, there is no justification for ASUU leadership to continue the strike when the majority have voted that the strike be called off. There is no way you can defend the fact that ASUU is compromised. No way at all!

No way?
The majority asked for the strike to be called off *as long as we had assurances that government would deliver*. I should know, because that is my view: call off, but verify first.

Can you please tell me exactly what ASUU has asked the government to do that it finds so hard to do?? I assure you that it is this unwillingness to put their agreement in black-and-white that makes ASUU doubt government's sincerity. I don't think anyone wants to wait till FG reneges on its word again (they've done it before) and we have to go on another strike.

ayili: ...in my department then there were some CNC machines we never used, is that because gov. didn't fund research?

You've made an excellent point. We academics have seriously failed the country, and cases such as the one you mention are not as rare as one would like. Most lecturers seem to be bereft of ideas when it comes to making the best of what we have.

This however points to a dark truth: we have been recruiting the wrong set of people for the last 2 decades. This is why it is so important to improve working conditions (I think salaries are not bad at current levels, but you've got to give a brilliant student a fighting chance to do good research, or he's not coming to lecture!).

Having said this, the government needs to do two things:
1. Put its money where its mouth is: fund education, and put everything in writing, so that we won't be back this route (strike) in a few months, or when if Jonathan loses in 2015

2. Place extremely demanding performance requirements on lecturers. I don't see anyone talking about this from the FG's side, which is sad.

Laalamed: For almost 10yrs now unilorin has stable academic calendar.

They have stable calendar because while ASUU's monkey dey work, Unilorin's baboon dey chop furiously. Karma catches up with us all eventually.

bolayei: ... but these lecturers want more than their salaries...

You're quite ignorant, you know. Not that there's anything unusual in what you've said...one learns not to expect much of Nigerian students.

Abeos: elect elect

Elect & Elect Ife is better than same course in UI, no doubt about it*

*pls note, I am not one of those young ones who go around engaging in pissing contests. I am simply stating a fact.

lymelyte: It cannot be a massive sack because a lot of them will resume work.

Hmm, don't be so sure.

Fact is, FG has messed up on this big time. I am definitely for calling off the strike (I have been for a long time). However, Wike is nudging me in the other direction. When the committee of pro-chancellors instructed last week that universities be opened, I was sure I would start lectures from Day 1. But...why Wike/FG felt the need to roil the waters of this issue the way they have, I haven't the foggiest idea.

Although I am a lecturer, I have to say that both FG and ASUU have, at different times, acted stupidly over this strike issue. Most recently, I think ASUU has not shown the proper respect for the Office of the President (forget whether it is GEJ or not). Hence, I was in a queer situation of not knowing which of the two combatants I was angriest with.

Wike has however made my choice easier. I do not respond well to threats. Not when I am 1000% certain of the value I bring to the table. This is not about whether I can be replaced (or how long it will take the system to do so). It is about whether I have options if GEJ sacks me. Believe me brother, I have many options, almost *all* of them better than my current job (or my current country).

Fact is, ignore all the rubbish Wike said about new demands. I kept quiet till I found out exactly what ASUU requested (not demanded) for, and there is NOTHING there that a sincere government should find so difficult to do. I am left with only two plausible explanations: (a) GEJ feels disrespected, and wants to wield the big stick. This would be somewhat understandable, but surprising, given that we are so close to resolving the issue (b) FG has not been sincere all along. After all, if they promised to inject 200B this year, and we are already 3 weeks to the effective end of the year...

I am not totally sure I will refuse to resume; however I can assure you 1000% that if I do, Wike's threat will not be the reason. In fact, his threat is the only reason why I am likely not to resume work.

So I say: Wike, bring it on (and to my students: sorry we live in a shitty country).

Sincere 9gerian: @Prof Femi..,I am Sincere 9gerian and I try to live up to my ID on every of my posts. I chose that ID before my very first post on NL so it was not an after-thought...

I believe in *sustainable* progress.I also know however, that when you are forced to do business with an ignorant, dishonest fellow (FG), you may need to have a gameplan where you stack a number of half-measures to achieve your long-term goal. I think you are so sold on the idea of ASUU as the bad guy that a red mist hovers any time you speak about them. I can find no other way to rationalize some of your positions. For example:

i. A gentleman keeps his word. It is incredible that you would defend the FG's repudiation of an agreement it signed. Oh, wait...

ii. Your second questionable stance: that the FG was "blackmailed" into signing the agreement (which it cannot possibly implement). What does this mean exactly? Do you mean that if ASUU demanded for 20 Trillion Naira and 7 virgins, the FG would still accede because ASUU somehow can blackmail them into promising something government cannot deliver on? This leads to your third fallacy:

iii. You keep claiming that government somehow cannot afford to spend N220 billion on the universities per year. Where do I even start from? Do you have any idea how much money is wasted in this country? Have you ever seen estimates of how much we lose *daily* to theft in the oil industry in particular? How can you sir claim that government cannot afford to spend an average of less than 5 billion on a university per year Do you know what UNESCO has to say about national allocation to education? Have we, by any chance already exceeded their recommendations? Would you say a man who chooses to spend heavily on the education of his children is somehow doing the wrong thing?

A few other random points:

people like you and the other members of ASUU are looking at short term benefits you can get from govt- a few allowances, release of few billions for infrastructural upgrade

With your obvious hatred of anything ASUU, I doubt that you can speak with any authority about what we are looking at. Funny enough, I like the union only a little more than you do. This however does not stop me from admitting when they are right.

You implied it yourself,we do not run a proper federal system. There's too much power at the center. Of course, that means too much responsibility also gets thrown to the center. We all know this. So why are you so aggrieved when ASUU throws the responsibility for funding public education back to the government?

Can you give examples of nations that are still using this ASUU-approach to solving problems in the their university?

Give me examples of nations whose governments are so dishonest that they would sign an agreement, and then turn around and disown it; you would probably have your answer.

If these short-term benefits, which you claim is the dividend of the past struggles of ASUU are sufficient, how come we are still talking about the same PROBLEMS decades after ASUU started embarking on strikes?

I NEVER said the dividends are sufficient. I said they resulted in progress that would ordinarily not have been made. I'm waiting to be faulted on that claim.

How are we sure that these mostly greedy, selfish, corrupt and wicked ASUU leaders conveyed exactly what the president offered in the 13 hours meeting to their state/zonal members?

There. Your bias is clear for the world to see.

kapable75: i think ur fada is part of d ASUU striking for his pockets

Lecturing in Nigeria: the very definition of a thankless job.

The "fadas" you are abusing chose to wrestle the FG on your behalf to prevent school fees from going out of the roof. They have just successfully fought for the injection of 1.1 trillion that will make your education more meaningful (abi you hear say one single kobo of that 1.1 trillion is going into a lecturer's pocket??). I feel so sad for this country. Imbecility has taken such strong roots that perhaps people such as myself are fighting a losing battle.

Sincere 9gerian: I dont believe in half-measures. If we want to solve the problems in our universities, we have to do it whollistically. ASUU is not part of that whollistic solution because they'r part of the problem. I will not support ASUU because the so called 2009 does not address the problems in our universities. We need to tell our selves the truth and do the RIGHT thing, which is complete autonomy of the universities (not the type ASUU is asking for). Govt should establish students loans or whatever to help those who cannot meet up with the increment of schools that will follow real autonomy. The FG govt universities will still get grants but these grants will be fixed by the NASS and will not be subject to labour dispute. ASUU should be proscribed. All labour disputes should be handled locally.

To be clear, I need to state where I agree with you. I agree with you 100% that universities should be autonomous not just when in comes to selecting VCs, but in every other way. However, the students who are hailing your post probably do not know that it indicates advocacy for fees in the hundreds of thousands and Millions of Naira. Don't get me wrong. I am a very staunch believer in increase in fees. I am however also always mindful of the feasibility of my ideas. One of the tentpoles of your argument is

Govt should establish students loans or whatever to help those who cannot meet up with the increment of schools

Really? You seriously believe a government that has to be clotheslined by ASUU each time they need it to do something for the universities, will actually properly run such schemes?? Face facts. The government wants to wash its hand of education, but not for the right reasons. Your idea is excellent in conception, but fails to admit the insincerity of the government. If you stopped beating on ASUU for a minute, you would realize that *every* party in this matter must share the blame: FG, ASUU, parents, students, other Nigerians.

ASUU has its problems. But one would expect that a self-proclaimed body of intellectuals would be able to sort its problems from within. There are those of us who are already devoted to the rise of a new ASUU (not the union, but the class of intellectuals in Nigeria). Inept and lazy lecturers are a big part of the problems with the universities, but ASUU as a union has done more than anyone else to drag the universities forward.

Sincere 9gerian: The problem with some Nigerians is their selective approach to issues. We all read the report about the UK lecturers going on strike. How many days did the strike last? Just one day. Was the demands of the lecturers met while the strike lasted? Are the UK lecturers not aware that they can also go on indefinite strike the Nigerian way? So why didnt they use that approach?

Since you and I criticise out political leaders for not copying the RIGHT things from the western world, why not our lazy lecturers? Why is what is good for the goose not also good for the gander? Where else in the world would labour leaders shut the door of the universities for months, claiming to be fighting for improved quality of higher education? You killed education for months in the name of fighting for better education? How does that add up?

More over, ASUU has been embarking on strike since the late 70s, but decades after we'r still on the same issue. So what has changed? Motion without movement.

I dont believe in half-measures. If we want to solve the problems in our universities, we have to do it whollistically. ASUU is not part of that whollistic solution because they'r part of the problem. I will not support ASUU because the so called 2009 does not address the problems in our universities. We need to tell our selves the truth and do the RIGHT thing, which is complete autonomy of the universities (not the type ASUU is asking for). Govt should establish students loans or whatever to help those who cannot meet up with the increment of schools that will follow real autonomy. The FG govt universities will still get grants but these grants will be fixed by the NASS and will not be subject to labour dispute. ASUU should be proscribed. All labour disputes should be handled locally.

As long as we dont do the right thing, we will soon be back to square one- another strike

I do my best not to get fixated on any one individual on Nairaland, but I've got to say I just can't understand what makes people like you tick. Obviously intelligent enough to know your left from your right, yet, ceaselessly stoking fires, and resorting to political explanations for the simplest things. Perhaps I would be better educated about your motives if I tried to get a larger sample of your posts, but I unfortunately do not have time for that. All I have come to realize is that your choice of the handle "sincere_9gerian" must be a sort of private joke, because your arguments are usually anything but sincere! Mostly well-articulated, yes, but sincere? Not at all.

For example:

has been embarking on strike since the late 70s, but decades after we'r still on the same issue. So what has changed? Motion without movement

I find it incredible that mere 'seconds' after an ASUU strike forced the FG to promise the injection of 220B 1.1 Trillion into the universities, you can make this lame argument. Is it that you just can't compute the fact, or is it so inconvenient for you to admit that an ASUU strike achieved results? If you don't work in a university, perhaps you should ask people who do. The fact is, ASUU STRIKES HAVE BEEN LARGELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RECENT IMPROVEMENTS IN THE STATE OF THE UNIVERSITIES. I should expect that a smart person like you would realize that, but noo, you have your ax to grind with ASUU, and the truth must also die in the process.

Well my friend, posterity will judge us all. Being intelligent is not enough. One also needs to be sincere. Perhaps you are one of those who gets so invested in a political position (or a job to spread propaganda?!) that no casualty is too big. Let me tell you, every man who fails to occasionally ask himself whether his stand is *still* a stand for truth, will ultimately be viewed by history as a wasted life. That, irrespective of his IQ or his status in life. Stop misleading our youth.

theoctopus: How would you ask me what I can do when I am already doing something? By informing and speaking out on this thread and other social media fora, I am already doing something

Exactly.
I have said Nigerians like venting (exactly what you are doing) but then, doing nothing else. Believe me, that is not necessarily a characteristic of students globally. I know places where the students would have been far more active and proactive in dealing with the sort of excesses you say Nigerian lecturers indulge in.

But thank you, your answer just confirmed my assertion by implying that it's enough to vent. Someone else will solve the problems. No be so?

theoctopus: We will not support ASUU. they are on a cheap blackmail campaign

You are so sure of this. And yet, when I ask what can you do to prevent or reduce ASUU's excesses, no answer from you...

sCun: Did you see where I wrote ''we need to hold them to ransome

How?
Students need to learn to go beyond the obvious. I do not see any threads on Nairaland where students try to be creative in solving their problems. I even threw out a few suggestions, but no one picked them up, because like I said, for the typical Nigerian, it is enough to simply vent.

*I'm going to ignore your brainless prof comment because I am not interested in exchanging abuses (time too precious for that). I am however always interested in showing people that they can be much, much more.

theoctopus: You hold an opinion that is in your one selfish interest...

It is obvious that people who can be objective and sincere are rare in your circles.
Go through any number of my posts on Nairaland, and it should be clear that I never mince words in apportioning blame, either to FG, to ASUU, or the students.

Anyway, as I asked above, what are *you* going to do about it? Other than hiss and throw a fit?

theoctopus: you are a part of the rot!

Hope you will be lucky enough to have the sort of motivations *I* have for doing my job. I think a fair number of people "know" enough about me on Nairaland to know what you just said is hokum.

What I have found is that people who have nothing to offer are those who complain the loudest. Truly intelligent folks are usually busy working out and putting forward *concrete* suggestions, not lying down and wallowing in the obvious.

theoctopus: Why will you not support this kind of open-ended political strike with the false claim that it will end strikes forever! Are there not strikes in America and Europe? SMH

What exactly are you sayin' o? Spell it out.

sCun: When the strike is called off, do not be surprised if the schools start exams two weeks after without covering the course outlines. Some of these so called lecturers only lecture once in a semester, but when it is time for exams, their questions are there waiting for yoy. I know we love criticising the govt, but we need to hold our university lecturers to ransome too, they are by no means perfect. Infact, 50% of the problems in our universities can be traced to them.

So what are you students going to do about it, other than whine?
Nigerians love whining when they could be engaging their faculties to seek solutions or palliatives.
If FG is not ready to demand for performance from "lecturers", what about you the students? Oh, that's right. You'd rather take it and complain ceaselessly on this forum.

I was getting a little irritated myself about the long silence from ASUU since the meeting with GEJ. Given the OP's post however, I see things differently now. If we need to take a few extra days and steps to make sure we won't have to go on another protracted strike in the next few years, so be it. I'm happy that most folks here seem to share the same view.

Gbajabiamila1: ASUU is a body of intellectuals true true.. Kudos!

I don't think you are in any position to determine whether I am an intellectual or not.

As I have said *clearly* subsequently, the MOU rides on the 2009 agreement. If you have read just a fraction of my posts on this strike (of which there must be hundreds now), you must notice that I focus on the 2009 agreement, which is what the strike is about. I never have any qualms about stating the extent of my knowledge. In this case, I do not need to know the full details of the MOU because I do know the details of the 2009 agreement, and that is the principal thing, okay?

By the way, I would have had a little more respect for your judgement if you had tried to fault any of the numerous claims and arguments I have made, rather than taking cheap potshots?

wasak: I concur totally sir!!! but tell ASUU to leave the stage now that the ovation is loudest and let posterity be the judge...

Please no "sirs" For all you know, I'm just a GA! ASUU will not leave when the ovation is loudest because it isn't doing all this for the ovation. What ASUU is administering to the educational sector is seriously bitter medicine, and unless people really understand, ASUU was always going to be cast as the villain anyway. The union knows this, and thankfully, still has the cojones to continue the fight.

I salute all students and really sympathize with you, but believe me, it is not all about ASUU allowances. That is a small part of the picture. The bigger fight is for the greater good.

wasak: I've modified my post sir!! I was busy the other time. Thanks.

Thank you for admitting it then. How can ASUU be selfish old men if they are the only ones standing between students and huge school fees??

Two things are clear from your post. First, you're angry that the strike has deleterious effects on students. To this, I say: "you can't make omelette without breaking eggs". It's sad that this being Nigeria, you can't force FG's hands any other way. I'm not happy that students have to be casualties, but again, no options...

You also imply that strike actions have not worked for ASUU in the past. This is a common misconception that most students are guilty of harboring. Let me say it clearly: every student currently in the universities is benefiting from previous ASUU strikes. You heard me. ASUU strikes have made the universities better, pure and simple.

[quote author=prof.femi]Question: ONE entity has been responsible for keeping school fees in universities relatively low. Which entity is that? Please give me a short, direct answer.[/quote]Wasak don port o Apparently, you find the answer an inconvenient truth. The answer is short and simple: ASUU.

It is this same ASUU that you hate so much that keeps fees at the current levels. None of you wants to admit that because it is incongruous with your view of ASUU as selfish old rascals.

wasak: I ve read a full copy of the agreement.. if the MOU actually centers upon the implementation of 2009 agreement, then what is d bone of contention from sister associations?
with regards to the analogy, I only used it to portray a clear picture even though I'm well aware of it's implications

Okay, but could you please address my MCQ? I think the answer is very instructive, as it goes straight to the heart of the accusation that ASUU is selfish and hates students.

Question: ONE entity has been responsible for keeping school fees in universities relatively low. Which entity is that? Please give me a short, direct answer.

Come, Wasak, I expected better of you. Are you trying to mock me, or do you truly believe what you've written up there?

d crime here is to give false information about the motive of the strike

What are you talking about? The MOU rides on the 2009 agreement. ASUU is asking that the 2009 agreement be implemented, pure and simple. To the extent that the MOU comes into play, I'm sure the FG is aware. What false information??

Nigerian universities are lacking in infrastructure since it's a lucid fact ..but ASUU isn't concerned about that.... ASUU is more concerned about examination and supervision allowances... fatter Pockets and probably lesser workload

Come, how can you say this? It appears you do not even know anything about this topic, apart from the "fact" (of which you are sure) that ASUU is just being selfish. Okay, let's make this "home work" for you. Tell this forum: how much is the earned allowances of *all* university unions? How much is ASUU asking FG to spend on infrastructure? Also tell us where you got the information that ASUU wants the allowances, but *not* the infusion for infrastructure.

not about interest of the students

Let me ask you a simple question. Who is preventing the average school fees paid by students from going up to N200, 000 (random figure)? I will give you options:

(a) students
(b) parents
(c) FG
(d) ASUU
(e) NLC
(f) NANS
(g) Fashola
(h) someone not listed above

Think very carefully about this, and come back with your answer. I hope you will be honest enough to realize the answer. Perhaps then you will come back and explain how ASUU hates students so much.

tantamount to saying d Biafra war was to keep Nigeria together on the part of d Igbos....

Quick advice: in crafting analogies, please refrain from using subjects that a good percentage of your audience will find sensitive or offensive. Especially since there is absolutely no link.

Promhize: Their are plenty qualified graduates ready to teach, if these ones don't value their job,

This has to be the funniest post I have read this week. Plenty of qualified graduates? Reaally? And you know this because, what, you come into occasional contact with "good" students? Dude, don't even start.

[quote author=m-ployer]You are the one that has comprehension problem. Didn't you read the part they said FG should not 'sell' the universities to ASUU?[/quote]I'm sorry, I must have the same "problem" that he has, because I cannot see how you could have read the original post, and yet reach the sort of conclusions you are reaching. Are the unions against government implementing the 2009 agreement? Are they against infusion of funds for infrastructure? Are they, perchance, against the payment of earned allowances? Do you even know what aspects of the MOU the unions are kicking against? Please enlighten us. Thanks.

wasak: Prof Femi where are you...
lemme go prepare for a round of serious debate.. I'll be back!!!

Wasak, what do you want to debate about again? Obviously, you're not aware of the long history of intense rivalry and one-upmanship between unions in the universities. Also, more careful perusal of the original post should make it obvious that the unions support the 2009 agreement. Their grouse is only with the MOU. I do not know the details of that MOU, but they obviously feel ASUU is trying to cut the number of non-teaching staff and "take over" the universities.

Whether there should be more "lecturers" and less non-teaching staff is a separate, long debate. However, there is nothing at all in this post that changes the main issues that we were all previously cognizant of (even though you chose to view them through ASUU-is-selfish colored lenses).