₦airaland Forum

McLuhan: Prof., let me apologise to you on behalf of the yokel who wrote those imbecilities. You must understand that it is for the sake of eliminating such ignorance that distinguished scholars such as yourself are embarking on the sacrifice of a strike. So, please ignore him for the sake of some of us who sincerely appreciate your worth and who welcome your scholarly and intellectual contributions to this forum. I write this with every sense of seriousness and sincerity.

Thank you very much McLuhan. It's always a pleasure to read your posts.

koonbey: @the bolded;how do they go about having a ,I'm sure you know that quite apart from the ASUU Strike,a number of Varsities have been having Problems internally,leading to a Topsy-turvy Calendar.

Sorry, I do not want to give you an answer that is 75% conjecture, so, I can't really do justice to your questions...

Pdizzle: Prof. u actually changed my view abt this whole thing. Tnx for enlightening me sir

Thank you very much. It may make me sound small, but feedback like this are the real things that tempt me to stay on in this system just a little longer

koonbey: @Prof.Femi,This is sort of off-Topic but your Response would be very much appreciated; UNILORIN is not on Strike; they have very good Infrastructure and Facilities, in short;everything works smoothly there..yet their Tuition Fees are not high..why is that? what is it about them that other Varsities are not emulating??

I have not personally been to Ilorin recently, so please take this as just my (somewhat informed) opinion. There are a number of factors:

1) Ilorin is not better than other top Nigerian universities. What they have is a very stable academic calendar and a much saner system that attracts more goodwill in terms of top-level students and funding than they did in the past.

2) They get to brand themselves as the strike-free university, while benefiting as much as (and in some ways, more than) other universities that do the hard work of going on strike. Would you believe that while all other universities' students are groaning at home, and their lecturers are suffering no-work-no-pay, Unilorin is already planning to disburse their share of the initial FG N30 billion. Money they did not work for in any way.

3) Unilorin has a very good PRO machine, which cranks up the decibels in branding them as the unique Nigerian university where things work. This feeds back into the goodwill thing.

4) When all is said and done, even with those advantages, it is not right to say "they have very good Infrastructure and Facilities". On that front, they are at the same level as other top universities. There is rarely any top ranking in which Unilorin is ranked as high as my university for example.

5) Having said all this, and to give credit where it is due, I have to admit that Unilorin also seems to have a better leash on its staff, which leads to more accountability. In this regard however, they are not alone. I know other universities that are introducing measured to keep staff productivity high.

6) To be clear, if you detect a note of bitterness in my post, it is not directed at my colleagues in Ilorin. It is a result of my dislike of monkey-dey-work-baboon-dey-chop anywhere. If there's anyone my ire is directed towards, it is their university authorities, to the effect that they reap where they do not sow.

7) Although ASUU currently looks like the bad guy to Ilorin's good guy, history will vindicate ASUU. I am *absolutely* sure of this.[Hey, I should quickly add, I am not an ASUU lackey o! I rarely agree totally with the Union...or any unionists for that matter, lol]

[quote author=ig.chuka]Not necessary, say ur mind if you wish to. I am not ashamed of where i am currently. I stayed in an academic environment for a long time, so am conversant with all that stuff[/quote]Okay then. Like I said, your posts are riddled with misconceptions so there is too much to rebut. I will take those that I feel are weighty enough to inform yourself and other readers.

There is high unemployment in the country and retirement age of profs was increased to 70 years and ASUU did not see anything wrong with it

The 70-year clause came about because some departments found in so hard to attract or retain good new staff that they ran a risk of total collapse when the aging staff retired. This is an extreme case of the recruitment problem I often mention. In most departments, you can still employ lower-caliber gradates. However, for some lucrative disciplines, PhD-level personnel are so mobile that staffing becomes an issue. As I write this, a similar storm is brewing in *my own* department. Over the years, we have consistently lost staff in a particular sub-discipline, to the extent that, if the senior staff there today were to retire, that sub-discipline would collapse. And we are talking about one of the most important sub-disciplines in ALL OF ENGINEERING!

Hope this explanation about the 70-year clause helps. Like I mentioned earlier, I totally disagree with the blanket extension for all universities (and the fact that non-teaching staff quickly joined the train and now, even a driver gets to retire at 65, an age at which most of them rarely even seat in driver's seats of official cars). BUT...I can see where it all came from.

[quote author=ig.chuka]I believe that you should be able to deduce where i fall into. Can you be re-roofing a house when the foundation is faulty? Any huge investment in unis will not produce fruit, because our foundation (primary and secondary schools) is faulty.
I think its a waste of money on unproductive FG unis when millions of nigerian children are not in school.[/quote]Why should I deduce where you fall into? I believe you are not ashamed of what you are, whatever that is, so please be upfront. Don't assume I will think less of you just because you are a student (if you *are* a student). I however do need to understand the perspective you are likely to being to this debate, because I see so many misconceptions in your posts, and they are lowering the signal-to-noise ratio of your posts. If I understand your perspectives better, I will know which points to zero in on, okay? So please let me know what category of stakeholder you fall into.

koonbey: I've been going through your Posts and I must say... you really bring a fresh Perspective,not one I completely agree with;but a very rational and objective one. But the Fact remains that;not all Lecturers are like you;Intellectually or Morally;and that is why Students find it difficult to give full Support to ASUU.

Thank you. At the risk of triggering pride detector alarms, I will agree with you: not all lecturers are like me. Just like there are many that I am better than in some regard, there are also those who are much better than me in almost every regard.

Actually, I agree with many of the statements made by students on this forum (e.g.that many lecturers are lazy, inept, or corrupt;that some of the points on the original agreement are questionable -70 years? Landed properties for ASUU? etc). However, where we disagree is that I can see the big picture, while the students apparently cannot.

To stand any chance of moving forward as a country, we need to get education (especially tertiary education) right. The current level of funding is less than 10% of what I think it should be (that figure is random by the way). The fact that the current class of lecturers comes with so much flotsam should not stop us from doing the right thing.

Incidentally:

1. A big reason why we have this problem with inept, lazy or corrupt lecturers is that we have not, since the 80's, been able to attract or retain the best minds consistently. I suspect you know, in your heart of hearts, why this is the case
2. There is *nothing* in the ASUU agreement with FG that stops them from holding us more accountable, or dealing with indolence or corruption in the system
3. Demanding proper levels of performance from lecturers, and properly funding universities, are not mutually exclusive activities
4. The education that students are clamoring to return to is (in most cases) useless, as anyone who surveys the Nigerian labor market will tell you
(I'll stop, not because I ran out of points, but so this doesn't become an epistle)

[quote author=ig.chuka]Tell me the fees you paid and the quality of education you received, then you will be able to know if (1) ASUU is fighting for students or being selfish and (2) Money/Infrastructure is the problem with our universities or Lack of passion/committment for teaching by our Lecturers. I think ASUU has not being saying is that investment in education is a long term investment and unis abroad being referred to are over 200yrs old. If private unis with high school have not gone far, does it not tell that ASUU manages FG unis will not also go far.[/quote]There are so many things wrong with your post that I will pass on a proper response - for now - and ask: are you currently a student, or have you already passed through the system? In case you weren't sure from my handle, I am an academic in a federal university. When I have your answer, I would know how best to respond to your future posts.

[quote author=ig.chuka]The problem we have in this country is that we blame govt for every problem we are faced with. I tell you that if most of the lectures were GEJ, they will do the same or even worse than what he is doing. If you think that you not being paid enough, resign and contest for election. It is not by force for you to teach. There is high unemployment in the country and retirement age of profs was increased to 70 years and ASUU did not see anything wrong with it. God help us[/quote]Actually, I posit that a bigger problem we have is that Nigerians rarely ever come to an issue with the requisite level of information, knowledge, or comprehension. Yet, we always hold our views strongly. Like you.

* case in point: while I personally do not agree with the 70-year rule, I happen to know exactly why it was successfully pushed through, which you obviously do not. If you care to ask, I will tell you.

[quote author=ig.chuka]How much did you pay as school fees during ur own time in the uni? And your now expecting others to pay differently. If you did not see anything wrong with paying cheap school fees then, then there is nothing wrong with students being comfortable with the current school fees. As you can see GEJ has been too lenient on ASUU.[/quote]If indeed read my posts, you will find that my anger is that students are kicking ASUU for demanding for the appropriate funding for the FG. I maintain that someone, FG or students, needs to fund education. If the FG funds to the levels ASUU is asking for, there would be no need for increase in fees. However, if ASUU does as the students are asking and calls off now, then fees will almost certainly be increased. How does all this concern what fees I paid as a student?

mex22: shut up my friend

If this were not a faceless forum, the likes of you wouldn't even be on the same podium with me. So, go ahead and abuse the privilege.

wasak: in my school for instance the VC solicits from wealthy people to carry out projects and in less than 2years he has achieved what predecessors put together didn't achieve. I'm talking about professor Abdulrashid of Bayero university kano.

Thank you. The fact is, you - and most people - just do not appreciate how expensive an endeavor it is to fund tertiary education. I estimated the cost of the facilities of a single department that I regularly visit in the US at N500 Billion. That's ONE DEPARTMENT in a proper university. At that rate, each proper university will properly require facilities/infrastructure injection in the order of a few trillions. Of course I'm not asking that such an amount be sourced and injected into the system. I'm simply giving you an idea of how expensive tertiary education is.

You probably want to suggest that corruption and embezzlement play a big role, but sadly, in most cases, it doesn't. There is corruption everywhere in Nigeria and the universities are no different. However, it isn't a big factor here.

By the way, you should kindly note that in all those universities that are making money from Post-UTME etc, they execute tangible projects from the proceeds. For example, many people who wonder what my university does with the "huge" funds it raises from Executive MBA have no idea that tens of millions are funneled from there to meet all manner of critical university needs.

Having said all this, the money they generate is still not enough *alone* to make such a big difference.

Your VC has done well. Many more universities than you think are doing same. My university recently commissioned a building complex funded by an individual. The universities are trying harder than most of you think. It's just that this burden is so heavy that a strong arm of support is needed from FG.

It's easy to sit down and think we know how to run a university better than the administrators. Fact is, you - and many commentators - just do not have the facts.

wasak: with due respect sir I beg to disagree with u...d lazy greedy ones are those in the executive cabinet of ASUU... they should sack themselves.. there are over a million qualified candidates ready to fill their place... so it's all about the money!? huh?

Don't act coy with me. I have trained and graduated more than 100 first class students, and know EXACTLY what I am talking about, if you don't.

About whether the lazy ones are the ones in ASUU executive, I cannot speak to that. Perhaps, I might remind you that everyone finds his calling? In any case, I do not look at whether the ones flying our banners are lazy. I look at the course we are fighting for. In time, when the system improves, the lazy, inept ones will be flushed out, be they exco or not.

wasak: lecturers hate d students and don't bloody care whether or not they get a good job or sound education.

Now that I see what you're writing, I wonder whether it was a good idea to respond to your post. Dude, I don't know about the lecturers in *your* alma mater, but I'm here to tell you that not only do I care about my students, they are about the main reason why I am still in this crazy country.

wasak: and d strike is d best way to get proper education? can u prove to me that funding is the number 1 problem of universities?

When you say "prove to you" what does it mean? Anyhow, yes, funding is the number 1 problem because

1) The conditions of service are not good enough to attract and retain the best minds.
2) The good minds do decide to stay do not have the right equipment and conducive environment to work.

You probably want to tell me that lazy, greedy, indolent, unscrupulous etc. lecturers are the number one problem, no? Well, my friend, go back and look at point number 1 above. Fact is, you get what you pay for. If Nigerian universities cannot employ smart brains year-in-year-out, what happens is, you fill the system with a lot of dross. The lazy, greedy ones you hate are here because the funding is not right to attract the best minds. Gedit?

Olumidzti: lecturers are being paid less than their colleagues in other countries ...

While I agree with your post almost entirely, I think it is important that we stop comparing ourselves with others. We should not necessarily ask to be paid like other countries. We should ask to be paid enough to attract and retain the best minds. Quick question: is the entry salary currently enough to attract first class students to lecturing? No. I think that speaks for itself.

kommiejewel: Oh, so nw 'u're willin 2 call off d strike?' . . . . Hunger don dey set in small small. .. .ASUU,dis strike has lasted more than it shld,call off now or d FG'll see thru ur false resolve nd renege on any agreement u've made so far. . .#nuffsaid. .

If you read my post above, you should know ASUU has no need to fear. As surely as there are mangoes, *someone* will pay the proper price to take our universities where they should be. If you decide the government should not do it, then start working extra hard...*you* will do it. Tell me, how is ASUU going to lose this one?

wasak: what I hate most is hearing them saying they are fighting for d students, That's a lie...a robust one, let them make do with the funds disbursed, I hate d government but to be candid they have tried

Don't misunderstand things. ASUU is primarily fighting for (a) its members (b) the Nigerian tertiary education system. We are not fighting for students in the sense of reducing their fees. We are fighting for students in the sense that the education you're getting is basically worthless, and (hopefully) with the right injection of funds, you are more *likely* to get a proper education. Gedit?

Olumidzti: how many days do your senators sit per week? & how much do they get?

Can you kindly stop comparing academics with (to) senators?
To the topic:

a) The no work-no-pay rule is fine. Forget the fact that I am hard at work on my research...if my students are suffering at home due to the strike, then I consider the no-work-no-pay my own share of the hardship.

b) Nigerian students come out looking even more self-centered than they claim ASUU is. Just because you want to get on with the worthless education you're currently getting, and graduate on time, you're willing to ask us to shut up and leave the system in its current state. Translation: tour nation's educational system can go to hell as long as you graduate on time

c) Yes, ASUU is fighting for allowances. Do you know how the bulk of those allowances came about? I'll tell you. My department for example is supposed to have 60 "lecturers". That is the NUC establishment. However, because the government can't afford to employ the right number, we have to get by with only 25. That's right, 25 of us do the work of 60 (and you wonder why we can't get scripts ready on time, or why we don't bother grading your assignments properly...). The government finds it easier to pay those 25 of us "excess workload" for doing the work of 60. Only now, they turn around and say we should not ask for the allowances.

Will the FG (and you) make up your minds: do you want to pay me extra for working extra (personally, I don't want excess workload) or do you want to employ the right number of staff??!

d) When students shout on ASUU to call off and leave the government be, they are forgetting one thing: there is ONLY ONE entity in Nigeria stoping school fees from going to (for example) N500,000 per year in all universities. Yes, it is this same ASUU you are criticizing. For the avoidance of doubt, I personally believe students should be made to pay close to what their education is worth. When a man pays for something, he is more likely to valule it.

So, in a nutshell, while I agree that no-work-no-pay is just about right, you should be careful in laughing at ASUU members who feel the pinch. IF ASUU buckles, you can be sure you will be paying more than N100,000 for you next school fees.

rudedough: Even as much as i agree with the increment of tuition fee to allow for autonomous administration of our tertiary institution, i still feel as though that majority of ASUU members are not actually fighting for the infrastructural development of our tertiary institution but mainly for their selfish interest.

Well, you are probably right about this. As to whether it is wrong to fight for their selfish interest though, we'll leave that one for another day. The truth is, those of us who support the strike do so for different reasons. My not-so-secret wish is that ASUU succeeds so much in getting their (our) entitlements from government that more smart young bloods decide that lecturing is worth it after all.

The only way we're going to kick out the bad lecturers (if they exist ) is by being able to attract and *retain* smarter young ones. So, no worries, even if it is this old-kargo generation of inept lecturers that first get the windfall, soon enough, that same windfall will lead to our (their!) downfall, as aggressive, smart, hungry new graduates come into the system. At least, that's the way it goes in one of my favorite dreams...

rudedough: I'm a student of the University of Nottingham and i challenge you to check how much locals pay.

Local students pay - N2,315,918.92
International students - N4,248,424.59

So please don't deceive gullible Nigerians with this "SUBSIDIZED" theories. If you live abroad you should know better and don't forget that they pay taxes and tolls, and that is why the Govt. can subsidize their education. Do we?[/size][/b]

Thanks joo. Nigerians are too fond of free things; worse yet, most students don't seem to know that right now, the value of the education they are getting is tosh. As has been said over and over, you get what you pay for, so could students kindly stop complaining? *

*Do you hear students of private universities complaining so much about their lecturers?

** $#^#%%#& Lewandowski...

occam: Agreed but how do we ensure the poor are not denied access to education? I'm sure an average student forks out over N200,000 for fees, feeding and accommodation per year (N800,000 in 4 yrs).

ASUU can propose a "school fee exemption grant" for low income earners; closely linked to student performance. So students that do not score good grades will start paying fees the following year. Given the income levels in Nigeria, up to 65% of students will qualify. I'm sure Nigeria can fund this.

Thank you. Why do you think ASUU should "propose a school fee exemption grant" when they survey the sort of ignorant statements students make about the strike? You know, rather than making students pay proper prices and looking for ways of ensuring the poor are not excluded, ASUU takes the usual (and unfair) Nigerian approach of pushing it on FG. Now, do you think it is the students who should be complaining the most about that?

Anyhow, somewhere in my head, I have this idea of tiered school fees. Let First Class students pay nothing. Let 2-1 pay N50,000, and so on. So weak students end up paying a penalty for being weak. They either improve to pay less, or they keep paying huge amounts, or, they end up wondering whether the education they are getting is worth so much, and simply drop to face their real strengths. I tell you, the poor students in my classes do more damage than any strike ever can...

Ninapha: . I beg to disagree with u on this assertion. Rather some are not even given the opportunity to. I can tell u atleast 7 ppl i know ith first class who are not employed. Yes some may not hv the flair for teaching but i know the pay is ok atleast far better than what most pple receive in other sectors. Stop deceiving us with this low pay stuff, there is gud money in lecturing period. U pple want to receive more that u hv worked for.

Well, since its your word against mine, there is little I can do...other than to remind you that I have seen these same students you're talking about first-hand for a long time. My department is one of the best in the country in our area. Of the last ~10 staff we have employed, only 1 was a first class student (honest). Incidentally, this same one is considered one of the best lecturers in my department, bar none. Does that tell you something?

By the way, I'll like to know which university produces as many as seven first class students (presumably around the same cohort) who can't tie down a job.

[quote author=dr_joshua2000]Prof Femi ASUU asking for about the highest pay among civil servants is totally uncalled for. In advanced countries lecturers are not near the highest paid, meanwhile most of you professors teach outdated and archaic lectures and have bias for updating your knowledge. Most professors teach just twice a year and they are fighting their butt out for high pay and even a so-called excess workload allowance of 3500 per hour. When the corruption in the society gets into our education then we're finally doomed, and that's where we are right now. Shame on ASUU.[/quote]Look, we can argue till we are purple in the face. The facts are:
1. There are lots of lecturers who have no business being here. But in a situation the conditions of service cannot attract replacements that are truly better, we are left with few options on how to deal with them.

2. Proper funding of the universities and the FG deciding to demand performance from lecturers are *not* mutually exclusive.

3. The fact that some lecturers are bad eggs is NO excuse either for the FG to renege on an agreement it signed, or for them to abandon education

4. Tertiary education is expensive anywhere in the world. If the students don't want ASUU to fight FG for adequate funding, they better be ready to pay through their favorite orifice.

5. This country can not achieve any of our long-term goals unless tertiary education is well-funded.

rudedough: After much scrutiny, i have come an understanding that it all boils down to finance, and Nigerians are not yet ready to pay for education. If anyone could tell me where they pay 25,000 Naira (USD $155) per year for a University degree, anywhere in the world. I want to go study there.

God bless you for this. The thing that really gets my goat is that, rather than letting the burden fall on the students (where, frankly speaking, it should), ASUU is fighting to put in on FG, and guess who is hacking at ASUU? Yep. The same students. Life's not fair...

[quote author=dr_joshua2000]ASUU members complain that politicians earn a lot , truth is if they want to join politics they are free to join, no one is stopping them. But for them to hold the nation under duress and compare themselves to politicians is unacceptable, they are on the long run civil servants. And retiring @ 70 is very worrying, first don't they ever want to have anytime to rest from work before they die?, then if all the lecturers remain there where will the teeming undergraduates get employed.[/quote]Any ASUU member who compares himself with a politician is a fool (sorry for the harsh words from me tonight; Arsenal is a goal down at home ) but that does not change the fact that this system needs an infusion both for infrastructure and to make the job attractive enough for the kind of minds we need.

olayiwola9: and they are a minute part of the bunch, u and i know sir, that what needs to be changed first is the attitude of lectures not clamouringenious for some unreasonable agreement signed years ago, let them teach us well and i tell u, ASUU wont have need to confront the govt we the students will.

Yes, so how are you going to change their attitude?

occam: Perhaps you should have kept quite. Coming from a lecturer, this response was so inappropriate. You should have simply enlightened him, presented the facts and move on. Addressing a student with such contempt is very unethical

Yes, did you see where I said "I can understand now why most ASUU members view students with contempt". Despite your best intentions, some people say just enough to change your view about them. As Burke said, "there is a limit at which forbearance ceases to be a virtue". Yes, I am a lecturer both in and out of the class, and I try to educate anyone who desires an education. But when someone speaks so ill of something I hold dear, I will state things exactly the way I see them.

At the end of your post, you hinted an acceptance of the fact that students or FG, *someone* always pays dearly for education. In your estimation, is that happening in Nigeria? If it is not, can you suggest an easier way to make it happen than what ASUU is doing?

olayiwola9: sir, they say if u cant beat them join them. With my little stay in school, i've heard stories and seen myself of how lecturers who decide to distinguish themselves are treated, the old bucks expect things to maintain status quo and any lecturer who decides to change things a bit, u know the rest, and i know that u cannot tell me that in oau Majority of the lectures give their best, they dont even care if u understand all advise u to do is to spend 6 hours daily in the bush to understand what they've taught u.

Many urban myths that students carry from mouth to mouth are not true. Yes, the old hands try to ensure things remain the way they are, but I assure you that there are people who are, as we speak, changing the system. So, back to the point, this is not the reason first class students stay away. Its all about the money (and the nature of the job).

olayiwola9: well they develop the labour markets, if after all the funding and ASUU trains us like they do in other standard places, we will still be back to the same problem of no jobs, i followed ur questions closely sir, and i must say u have made ur point clear but majority of ASUU members if truth be told are responsible for this decay.

Yes, assuming that is true, how do you suppose we will improve this system? Ultimately, we could need to fire them. That's acceptable, but can you frankly answer me: do you think we will be able to recruit anyone better than them into this current system?

To the first answer: NOPE. They develop their tertiary education system first, so that when their industries develop, they have the manpower to solve the problems they encounter.

olayiwola9: sir, u know what i said above is true, the way the lecturers teach sometimes makes me clueless as to d subject being discussed in class, and then i know a lot of first class graduates who wanted to lecture, but to think of handling the lives of people the way majority of lecturers in oau does is in no way encouraging. Abi i lie?

What do you mean? That they don't want to lecture because they don't want to ruin lives the way current lecturers do? That makes no sense. If they are really concerned about how useless current lecturers are, and they are sure of themselves, isn't that all the more reason to go into lecturing? Lets not be economical with the truth; we are all Nigerians. Simply put, no matter how attractive you think lecturing jobs are, they are still not good enough to attract the typical first class student. I know this because I have had such students graduating from under my tutelage for more than a decade.

By the way, please feel free to debate freely (and none of the "sir". This is a faceless forum, and I think you should be free to say exactly what you think freely.

olayiwola9: All ASUU wants is totally unrealistic for a developing nation like Nigeria. They want us to believe that with these funds unilag and the rest will start competing with harvard abi?

You know, it would be good for people to have any idea of what they are talking about before they give opinions. Do you know what a developing country that needs to bootstrap itself needs to do? If you do, please tell me. I am all ears.