₦airaland Forum

debrief08: Go and look at yourself in the mirror and start saying positive things about yourself.
Look at yourself as Precious not as "mrs" this or that, start loving yourself first, if you don't love or respect yourself no one else will.
Stop being a doormat, be a human being first before being a wife, also teach your children that marriage is not their goal in life, their goal in life should be to be productive, respectful, serve God through serving humanity, seek Gods purpose in their lives and fulfil it.
When our time in the world ends, God wouldn't ask if you married or single, he will ask if you did what he sent you to do. We put so much pressure on ourselves to fulfil societail pressure that we forsake Gods plans for us, and rush into rubbish. When you have a bad marriage everything else in your life will loose focus.
When I talk about serving God I am not talking about Pastor worship or fasting and prayers, I am talking about serving others, taking beverages for strangers in the hospital who can't afford it, buying books for children in public schooks who can't afford it. That is service to God.
Love yourself, You were not born to be "mrs", you were born for Gods glory, only you can achieve that

Christ!! What's all these? Why are Nigerians so friggin' sanctimonious?! Simple question that demands a simple answer, and you go on a long meaningless rant that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the topic.

The OP has neither told us that she is in a failed marriage, nor has she sought anyone's "advice" on any matter. She's simply asking - most probably out of curiousity - for people's opinions about their marriage, and you automatically unload all manner of assumptions on her. "Love yourself", "Don't be a doormat", "Serve God", etc. Seriously?!?! This is just SO WRONG, and while you really may mean well for her, you should know that you've completely gone about it the wrong way. #JustSaying.

Tolaaaaannni: Then why insult nigerians for misunderstanding the topic, why not insult the op . He/she is the one that wrote "poop powered" Its a little misleading don't you think?

Is it the OP's fault that people are either too lazy to read, or too dumb to understand the article?

Perhaps if you had taken the time to actually read the article - not just the title - you will not have been "a little misled". This should teach you to not allow headlines to form opinions for you next time. Headlines are meant to grab your attention; they very rarely tell the actual story.

odumchi: I don't understand what you wrote. What I asked for is your scientific explanation for people sacrificing human beings in exchange for wealth? Or is that fake too?

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that money ritual works as widely claimed besides mere anecdotes and storybook accounts? Are you willing to replicate this seeming act of money rituals in the full glare of the public if given the platform to do so? Of course, people do sacrifice other human beings because they believe it will bring them wealth. But then again, people do all sorts due to irrational beliefs. The question is, does it work? There is no evidence ANYWHERE that it does. If you have such evidence however, bring it forth and let's examine it critically.

The gullibility level of Nigerians is simply amazing. This is why many who claim to have "seen" voodoo at work, somehow, strangely, are NEVER able to produce any evidence, let alone replicate these things they claim exist. Many of the things people regard as "proof" of voodoo are simply carefully crafted tricks - sometimes meant to entertain us, other times - like in the case of Nigeria (and indeed Africa at large), to awe (or deceive) us, effectively keeping us backward at the same time. Any wonder why the more backward a society is, the higher tendency they have to believe in voodoo and all sorts?

I have a friend whom everyone used to believe had supernatural powers. Legend had it then that he was stabbed with a knife, but the knife did not penetrate his body. He told me the story himself and others corroborated it. What they did not realise however was that while telling me his own side of the story in private, he also revealed to me how him and the person fighting had managed to trick tens of people watching them to make them believe he had "jazz".

Everybody has their moment of weakness (or credulity if you wish), and in a peculiar society like Nigeria, I can understand why an overwhelming majority would believe in things like voodoo (or jazz, charms, etc) even when there is not a single evidence anywhere that proves its efficacy. The OP asked people to bring their proof, and some people are posting YouTube videos. Seriously??

I'm curious to read Mr_Anony's views on this exceedingly apt parable.

[quote author=tpia@]that's all.

like attracts like.[/quote]Wow, what a revelation. Surely, flesh and blood did not reveal this to you.

MacDaddy01: Unfortunately you are right; going from forum to forum doesnt make me brave, just makes me look jobless. However, it is for a greater good. I believe that people learn from our arguments! some people have even confessed that they have changed faith because of the debates

Do not despair! But persevere! Though it may tarry, it will surely come!
https://www.nairaland.com/1028529/defence-logicboy

Logicboy is probably the most vilified atheist on this board. Rude, childish, annoying, petulant, immature, troll are all words that are frequently used to describe him. But let's look beyond his perceived attitude; I think this fellow is really effecting a change on Nairaland, even if we don't fully realize it yet.

While quietly observing the banter between logicboy and musKeeto on the other thread last night, I remembered the conversation I had with a fellow Nigerian about four nights ago. We had been discussing and debating various topics (homosexuality, abortion, etc) with two other Nigerians when Nairaland came up. He asked me if I was a very active member and which section I frequent the most -- I told him, 'Religion'. He frequents the Travel section and revealed that he avoids the Religion section as much as possible. When I asked him why, his response was simple -- "those atheists."

Upon hearing this, I sat up. I pressed him further and he admitted that he often finds the arguments here too compelling, even to the detriment of his faith. His words, "those atheists dey always get very strong arguments, dem fit make person to dey question God and dey commit sin." He then went ahead to mention one atheist in particular. Yes, you have guessed right - logicboy. "That guy na very crazy guy. But some of the things wey he dey always talk dey always correct sha", he added.

Then as the conversation went even further, I noticed something -- he began to question the bible and christianity as a whole (he had no idea I am irreligious). He suddenly began to repeat the same arguments logicboy and others often present here (strangely though, he mentioned nothing about slavery ). It was like he was in a trance of some sort, because he just kept going on and on while I listened patiently. At the end of his "rant", he finally admitted, "In fact, this Christianity sef, so many things just dey wrong about am. Those atheists dey get point true true." In his little rant, he had questioned the story of the Garden of Eden, he had questioned God's omnibenevolence and omnipotence, he had questioned certain biblical contradictions, and so on. I really couldn't believe my ears, and I was quite frankly amused.

Three days on from that night, he no longer considers himself a Christian. He still claims to believe in God though, but he no longer does Christianity or any other religion for that matter. Who knows how many more like him are here, even reading this thread, but too scared to post? It still surprises and amuses me when I think about it. That, folks, is The Logicboy Effect.

============

MacDaddy01: Unfortunately you are right; going from forum to forum doesnt make me brave, just makes me look jobless. However, it is for a greater good. I believe that people learn from our arguments! some people have even confessed that they have changed faith because of the debates

musKeeto: People do learn from the arguments on this board, but I think most people even atheists get turned off when someone tries to ridicule their beliefs/lack of it with blatant lies e.g atheists can not love, atheists are more intelligent than theists etc...

I love the banter on NL though... won't want it to ever stop...

jayriginal: To evangelistic theists, my best advice is this: Don't rely on books written by other theists to tell you what atheists think. Don't even rely on books written by theists who claim they are ex-atheists. Most such books, based on the ones I have read, cannot be trusted to accurately convey the atheist viewpoint.

This one is sooooooooo common on Nairaland, especially the bolded! "Some prominent ex-atheist said so, therefore, it must be true of all atheists." Even more, "Richard Dawkins (Chris Hitchens, Sam Harris, et al) said this the other day, therefore, this is how atheists think."

Seriously??

jayriginal: Follow up article on how not to convert an atheist here

http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/hownot.html

This is my favourite part from that link because virtually all theists both in real life and on NL are guilty of it.

Don't try to be an armchair psychologist.
I find it all too common for proselytizers to attempt to psychoanalyze someone they have just met, or even someone they have never met, confidently speculating on the abusive upbringing, personal tragedy or bad experience with a church that led the person to abandon belief in God and become an atheist out of anger or bitterness. It's a fool's errand to try to see into someone else's mind in this manner; not only that, it will usually be wrong. As already stated, the reasons people become and remain atheists usually have very little relation to the caricatures so common in apologist literature. Not only will this immediately cause an atheist to believe the person doing it has no idea what they're talking about, it will raise in their mind the suspicion that it is being used as a diversionary tactic to avoid dealing with their actual stated reasons for nonbelief.

It is as if an atheist accused a theist of believing only because they were brainwashed in childhood, without responding to the arguments the theist actually presented. Would not a theist who was the target of such tactics be justified in believing that their adversary was trying to poison the well of discourse rather than deal with the facts?

There's this common assumption that atheists are angry at God, or disappointed in a particular church's practices/pastors, or just simply bitter people, etc. It's pretty annoying when some people suddenly feel like psychologists and begin to psychoanalyze you just based on a few sentences you typed or uttered. They always seem so SURE of why exactly you are an unbeliever. They have met "so many others like you"; heck, they were even "ONCE like you"! While some atheists certainly do give these impressions, it is definitely not representative of the views of the vast majority. As has been mentioned repeatedly on this forum, people reject religion and God for various reasons. Why don't people get this?

mkmyers45: this is the ultimate proof no?

lol, not ultimate, but it's a start.

Pretty much sums it all up, doesn't it?

Personally, the day I see a severed limb restored in my presence, I'll convert on the spot!

musKeeto: Cyrexx maybe.. logicboy, I suspect, would rather commit suicide...

Since his main grouse appears to be slavery, he only needs someone in the mould of viaro to change his mind.

jayriginal: I mean reasonable in your manner of approach.

Its not difficult to write off the Abrahamic gods, but that will not invalidate the existence of a god/s.

That's true, I agree.

musKeeto: Alright, but I doubt me and logicboy share the same beliefs/non-beliefs...

LOL. Logicboy is more of an antitheist than he is an atheist. For some reason, I see him converting back to Christianity some day.

@jayriginal:

At what point does one become an unreasonable atheist? The point at which one positively asserts that NONE of the Abrahamic gods exist, or that point when one who dismisses all the numerous god concepts altogether?

Personally, I am largely convinced that neither the Christian God nor the Muslim Allah exists.

jayriginal: I'm very familiar with them. They simply try to pin point your precise position. It takes nothing from what the general term "atheist" means.



Richard Dawkins did something similar in one of his books, I think The God Delusion. If my memory serves me well, his own scale was from 1 to 7, with 1 being very religious and 7 being completely atheistic (as in positively knowing/believing that gods do not exist). It may surprise you that Dawkins put himself on a 6 not 7. What does that tell you ?

As for the facebook poll, those who subscribed to the poll, their backgrounds may count. I was discussing with a friend who lives in Atlanta and she said in the US, if you call yourself an atheist, it goes more than not believing in god, it means you believe there is no god. Who knows, majority of those who put themselves on 10 may have similar backgrounds.

In any case, I havent seen the poll and the description of each of the elements of the scale. Like I said earlier, there are atheists that hold that there is no god. There are those that do not believe there is god but will not assert that there is no god. Both groups are atheists.
You have a demarcation when you want to single out a person (for instance) so as to know what kind of arguments to employ against that person.

Let me use an example. Its like plants and animals. They are both living things. Or, dogs and cats; both animals. The word atheist is a general classification encompassing everybody who does not believe in god. It is only when you go into specifics that you may encounter these other terms.

I agree with the bolded.

[quote author=Okija_juju]PES... God bless KONAMI!!

Thats my all time favorite game.. Weekend with the boys and some beers have never felt so good..

Sadly, my internet connection in Nigeria is so bad[/quote]I've never been a fan of FIFA, probably because I first learnt how to play with Konami (dem Winning Eleven days on PS1 ). The few times I've played FIFA, I wasn't so impressed. The game play is a bit clumsy to me, and no, I don't think it's difficult, because I won most of the games I played the few times I tried it. I still played FIFA 11 a few months back, not sure what FIFA 12 is like though. PES is king jare, abeg (although I must admit that PES 11 and PES 12 have been pretty disappointing ). PES 13 better be good, or else. . .

jayriginal: Your bolded is wrong and that is a major source of confusion on this issue. There is no "typical" atheist. An atheist is one who does not believe in god, not one who believes there is no god. Indeed, there are atheists who believe there is no god but that is not what qualifies them as atheists.

It's not wrong. Positive atheism, Strong atheism, Explicit atheism. Do those terms sound familiar? There, you have the "typical atheist" I refer to.

There's this atheist page I subscribed to on Facebook and they once made a poll asking their followers to vote on a scale of 1 - 10 how "atheistic" they are: 1 being very religious and absolutely believing just about everything their religion says literally. And 10 being completely atheistic -- completely convinced that gods of any kind do not and cannot possibly exist, leaving absolutely no room for doubt. It may surprise you to know that Option 10 got the highest vote.

jayriginal: As for your coloured, it is not necessary.
All you need to answer is the question: does an agnostic believe in god ?

If your answer is no, he/she is an atheist.
If your answer is yes, then an agnostic can not possibly be an atheist.

You may feel free to answer "An agnostic does not believe in god but does not disbelieve either", however only the first half of the reply is relevant to determine whether or not the person is an atheist.

The second half of the statement is equally relevant. That's what makes the person an agnostic.

jayriginal: I seem to recall having this discussion with you a while back.

Yes, we did have this discussion and I had a re-think.

Well, I own a PS3 console but I'm not so much of a game lover as I am a PES lover. It's the only game I own and play all the time, and I bought it online at Amazon. I have a few demo games though (Mortal Kombat, WWF, Nascar) that I downloaded from the PlayStation store. For some reason, buying game CDs in stores, malls, etc is so damn expensive. I bought my PES 2012 game online for roughly 30€ (20something euros actually) whereas it sells for around 70€ or 80€ in most physical stores in Europe.

Anyone here does PES? I have pretty fast internet, so I play online too.

^^ Okay.

jayriginal: Well, it depends on how you look at it. Being unsure of whether there is a god or not still makes you an atheist as it means you dont believe. Thats really what is important ; whether you believe or not.

Its not to say that there is anything "dishonest" about calling oneself an agnostic.

If you accept that an agnostic does not believe in god, then you accept an agnostic is an atheist. Afterall, you cannot believe in something you are unsure about (or can you).

Now about the balls part, atheism comes with many negative connotations in the eyes of the religious and so one might take the softer option and declare oneself to be an agnostic since it seems to be less offensive than atheism (generally).

Declaring oneself an agnostic may be due also to a genuine misunderstanding of what atheism is (very common) and not a lack of balls.

However, the way I read that quote of LogicBoy, I understood it to mean that an agnostic is an atheist who wishes to avoid the repercussions that come with declaring oneself an atheist.

Well, there's a reason why there's that distinction in the first place. While I agree with you that some agnostics may label themselves so to avoid the unpleasant tag of atheism in the eyes of the religious, the fact still remains that there is a distinction between both positions to begin with - that certainty/uncertainty aspect. The typical atheist is cöck-sure that there is no god of any kind anywhere. The agnostic on the other hand, either thinks that there is a possibility, however slight, of there being a deity; or that such knowledge is currently beyond us - basically, we're not yet "smart" enough to know whether there really are gods or not.

"Afterall, you cannot believe in something you are unsure about (or can you)." - Well, you cannot disbelieve in something you are unsure about either (or can you?)

obadiah777: what the heck is an agnostic atheist ?

Agnostic atheism, also called atheistic agnosticism, is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

Russell's teapot typifies this position quite well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_teapot

jayriginal: Clarify please.

The fact that one is unsure does not mean they don't have balls. I believe that agnosticism is a very intellectually honest position. You don't know, you don't pretend to know, and sometimes, you just don't care. Simple as that. Nothing to do with balls.

jayriginal: As LogicBoy jokingly put it, an agnostic is an atheist without b[i]a[/i]lls.

Although I do realize that this is meant to be a joke, I hope you also realize that it is grossly misleading.

This guy, Evid3nc3, makes pretty good videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/Evid3nc3

Uh oh. . .

Avicenna: Yes, I have been fasting when I'm home. Praying(salat) regularly with them. This does not mean anything.
You must understand, I need to keep up the act for now. It is risky not doing so.
Days when I'm in my place, no fasting at all. I never fast when I'm alone. I see no reason to starve myself.
One more thing,if I decide not to fast when I'm home, no one complains but the youngest of my brothers fast. People use this against you as some form of insults. I don't intend to get into an argument with such fellows , so I fast with little snacks when no one is looking

Wow. Just take care of yourself man.

@Avicenna:

Sorry to bother you, but I'm curious: have you been fasting this Ramadan period? If yes, how have you managed to keep up so far? If no, how have you managed to avoid detection from your Muslim brothers?