₦airaland Forum

yeswecan:
Whats the deal if he travelled for medical check up? you want make he die? foolish thread

the deal is why can't he consult the same health system the rest of Nigerians are subjected to? The answer to that is rather obvious: it's in a bad state. This is one more reason why he needs implement a plan to fix our comatose health sector, so he, like the rest of us citizens, would be able to receive good treatment in Nigeria.

@Eziachi

a clever satire! You should find a part-time job as a comic playwright, lol

KnowAll:

Nice idea behind it all but what are the founding principles and ideology? It should not necessarily be a come-all-to-fight-a-common-enemy then fight-yourselves-when-the-enemy-is-dead. You need to elucidate on the ideology behind your party so as to reduce the risks after the fight. History has shown that it is easier to fight for something than to sustain and nurture it when you have won the fight for it.

The buck stops with the 1800 Congress men, all decison will be put to a vote, a simple majority carries the day on all decision no matter how miniscle the idea might be. The Soludo Saga that we all witnessed in the PDP will not happen in our party.

The question asked was simple and straight forward enough (see bold text in the quote above). He or she didn't ask about the fundamentals of democratic system (i.e. vote, a simple majority carries). You need at least a vision; and ideologies that should guide this vision. For instance, will the party shrink government size to reduce excessive government control and give room to private initiatives. Will the party pursue a fiscally responsible and/or a populist agenda.

If you can not highlight this clearly, then I would have to question the judgement of the so called party and its leaders.

@mccloud224

Thanks for putting much effort in sharing your ideological stance on how to rid corruption. Unfortunately, this did not address my question to you a bit.

Here is my question below.

rookie:
If it's not a secret, please feel free to elaborate and share with us how you plan to contribute towards fixing the Nigerian mess?

mccloud224:
Re-orientation.Sometimes, radical measures

If it's not a secret, please feel free to elaborate and share with us how you plan to contribute towards fixing the Nigerian mess?

mccloud224:
Nigeria is one big sick animal with a lot of sick body organs.

So how do you plan to change it?

mccloud224:
Everybody does it especially we black people.Dude i don't know you but i can tell you one thing. . .if you were worth $50 billion USD today, you wouldn't give a mess who Seun Osewa is. . .hahahaha.It's true.You wouldn't even remember a website called nairaland.Your brain will deliberately "forget" some people.I have seen it happen even to those that never believed it could.

While i see where you are coming from, I must warn that it is the culture of selfishness and greed. This same culture undermines our mindset, foresight, and stagnates our progress as a people. You accurately stated that "Everybody does it especially we black people". So the question is how did we cultivate a disproportionate and overwhelming culture of selfishness and greed?

Poverty, among other causes, play a huge role. It's difficult to sustain our value system as a people when majority are largely impoverished. Even poor people despise poverty so much, and strive to escape it often at any cost. In the end all we have a society where by everyone is only concerned about self-aggrandizement. While this isn't necessary a bad thing, but a dangerous distraction. For instance most Nigerians worship money, and revere people that have it regardless of the source of their wealth. So much that we sell our vote for as little as N500.

Not until we can look beyond pursuing wealth alone, things will remain the same because anyone in position to make a change will fall short to the treachery of greed.

Until we elect leaders with rigid value systems that transcend greed, we remain in darkness!

Oloks:
@fekwenugo2

We the people as whole allowed this rot in the first place, we are collectively guilty, has there ever been any form of accountability in this Nigeria. It is only in Nigeria that you get a public servant living 100 times above his or  her income, which is very visible for people to see not hidden. None of us has ever questioned such act, instead we hail them, more often when bits gets trickled down we have never seen anything wrong. When the huge amounts of donations was made, it was not hidden it was in the media, did anyone ever question the source of wealth,

Owing a bank is not fraud and not criminal, but obtaining funds through fictitious means is fraud and the law should prosecute such person. This is not an issue for sentiments. I am a Nigerian and I feel very bad at the state in which the country is, but we still have to be objective in our approach to issues.

Indirectly which is still very open to debate here, our culture be it Yoruba/ Ibo or Hausa allows this to happen. We respect the money man, without questioning the source.

Well said!

Oloks:
@fekwenugo2

I will be the last person to justify this act. My point here if you allow me to digress is that, Nigerians normally try to address the "EFFECT" but we have never had the guts to address the "CAUSE", we as a people should look inwards and ask why do such things happen in Nigeria, it is no t that we don't know what is right, but this so called money men play on the greed of an average Nigerian to achieve their goals.

Not enough for people coming here and saying that they should be jailed etc, we collectively allowed this crap to happen

i could not have put it better.

Kobojunkie:
Sure, You would get a visit from the FBI BUT you would probably not be harrassed in the same way these debtors have been harrassed for simply being able to get a loan from a bank without collateral. In fact, you will probably just be a witness and nothing more since the offender is this case would be the banks and not yourself for receiving such a loan.

Certainly.

There is this aggressiveness and abuse of power with many Nigerians in certain leadership positions. Almost as if they really have no standard-of-operation and they tend to act instinctively and recklessly. Same thing you'll find with cops arresting a suspect\person of interest. They would first beat up that suspect mercilessly as if he or she has already been convicted.

Well, this would soon change,  hold tight my comrades, 

@Kobojunkie

If I went to a local bank to get a loan, and then refused to pay on it. It is between me and the bank, not the FBI or CIA.

I see your point. I dont support the "clampdown on debtors" approach. But i think it is okay to find out the situation surrounding how they obtained their loans without collaterals. If I walked into an American bank and received millions of dollars from a bank without collateral. If down the line the bank is being investigated I would be rest assured that I would get a visit from FBI.

Kobojunkie:
I still do not understand how the EFCC decided to take it upon itself to go after bank Debtors. Don’t banks have a way of dealing with these issues themselves? The loans were given, not stolen, no I see no reason for this sort of intervention, unless the banks did it themselves.

What other people’s money? Have these banks always been government banks or something?  What is wrong with purchasing property using loans obtained from a bank?

I think debtors that receive money from banks without collateral (as well as the bank management) need to be investigated for obvious reasons. it's highly questionable when loans are originated without any collateral.

See this tout? She is now trying to throw other countries under the bus for her incompetence. Roflmao!!!

"Her incompetence" - so somehow it's her fault that some debtors got away with loans without collateral but at the same time she ought not "intervene"? I'm sorry to say, but this reasoning beats me.

A rule of thumb - Do not fix what is not broken,

Kobojunkie:
African governments CHOOSING TO SIGN DEALS to make Africa a dumping Ground,

Since you wont substantiate the above claim or retract it, it is fair to conclude by labeling it to be false and misleading.

Kobojunkie:
What sort of question is that? Where they FORCED to sign, at gun point or something, deals to have refuse dumped in Africa? If you want to believe that, that is fine with me.

Dude relax. My question was simple enough, and doesn't prompt for argument!

strangleyo:
source?

Yea, reliable source - preferably from the "horse's mouth" (i.e. World’s Investment Report 2009)

However true this may be, I find no reason to celebrate [b]just yet [/b]when more than half of Nigerians still live in abject poverty.

Kobojunkie:
African governments CHOOSING TO SIGN DEALS to make Africa a dumping Ground?

And if i may ask, how did you arrive at the above premise?

He recommended that “Nigeria needs to increase its grain production significantly while ensuring that farmers have access to good storage and preservation facilities as a form of encourage for higher production level.”

I think we are missing the point. Arguing about figures cannot change the reality that most Nigerians live in poverty.
The underlining message is that there are business opportunities for entrepreneurs to create value (even amidst poor infrastructure) to meet up the impending foot shortage.

It is left to us Nigerians to quit unprofitable nearly-obsessive debates and tap into abundant opportunities that sorround us.

@jarus

Do you mind emailing me all copies of Sanusi Lamido's writings that you have

Thanks

Should China sue companies [/b]for referring to them as bootleggers?

what companies have [b]publicly referred to China as "bootleggers"? Any evidence supporting this claim?

@Eina

To be on the safe side, we better narrow our search on OLD men with enough past records which can help us determine who is capable or not. period!!

Old men like Obasanjo, IBB, Atiku, Buhari that have ruined nigeria?

@kobojunkie

can you guarantee that anyone you elect will definitely do a good job? If not, what measures do you/we have in place to correct such a situation knowing the chances are high that we might get the same old minds come 2011?

There are no guarantee with elected politicians - new or old. The obvious measure would be not to reelect them, but the damage would have been done.

And my opinion, I am yet to give because you are still not on the same plate with me and so it is of no value at this point.

I think I may have been misled by your initial tone, then again maybe I need to work on my critical reading.

This is not about calling for a new list but simply asking we take a look at the way we pick and maybe consider doing things differently this time around.

This articulates a view that cannot be overemphasized and I would like to think everyone sensible enough should know after all these years of deceit.

Another thing i saw missing with the list attributed to this post was that it did not explain what qualified the people on the list. Nevertheless, I refuse to sharply reproach anyone that perhaps share a common goal with me and you - good leadership for Nigeria. Rather, i would unequivocally express what i think is missing to save the unnecessary arguments. Hence, am not sure if anyone would have considered your argument to be counterproductive if you have simply spoken in plain terms (like in your quote above) and not with a passive approach such as -

@Poster, what is the essence of this thread? Why this question? Why?

That's it for me. I rest my case with this dead-horse.

I believe you still do not understand where I am coming from

- believe it or not - i do[b]

If I find better out there[/b], why recycle?

- The highlighted question is exactly my point and I agree %110. But I can also infer from your question that "If I CANNOT find better out there, why not recycle[b] GOOD, VISIONARY LEADERS[/b]?" However, it is fair to question if any exist in the list that initiated this thread, but  I'd rather not deviate into that.

I am not here to tell you what to do or who not to vote for.

- not even sure what to make of this, but be rest assured, i'm not consulting you as my opinion leader,  lol. Your opinion (not advice or leadership) was all i asked.

Again, i share your sentiment for new leadership and I think most of us vested in the future of Nigeria should seek new leadership or pursue the ambition (when ready).

what if I argue that there are no new leaders that I know of (like wise many Nigerians) that is READY and CAPABLE to rule Nigeria come 2011. My hope is that some would suggest otherwise and provide some names and credentials.

@Kobojunkie -

No games,  I like many other Nigeria don't know too many new leaders that are competent. Matter of fact, i just had to look two up 2 names suggested on the listed (ernest ndukwe, Fola adeola). That is why I was interested in learning about new or emerging leaders. The truth is, if you dont know of any, it should prove to you how we might not know as well. so where can we find these new leaders with INTEREST that are [b]ready and capable [/b]to lead a tumultuous and dysfunctional country like Nigeria come 2011?

By the way - I dont see anything wrong in recycling good and innovative leaders especially those like Fashola or Donald Duke. Albeit if newer ones can come out and convince us about how they can best these examples, I would be even happier.

@Kobojunkie

Quote from: faoni572 on Today at 03:18:07 PM
@Kobojunkie, I would like you to[b]tell us your view[/b]. What do you think should be done on or before 2011. What are the measures to be taken to ensure the right person is there or how do you think we can get people like Fashola to replace these incompetent ones?

I don’t make it my place to tell others what to do or not do before 2011. This is because I expect it to be apparent, bu now, to every Nigerian out there that something ought to be done on our part to make sure we do not continue going through this same hell.

You choose to make Fashola your mark, and I ask, is it that you feel you cannot do better than that man has done so far? Do you feel he is the best you can get for your future?

We get your humble [/b]opinion - you think recycling ANY past (good or bad) leader is "pathetic" idea. Perhaps we should look for new innovative ones. - not a bad suggestion.

BTW - i think @faoni572 was simply asking your view and not to be schooled 

Quote from: eina on Today at 03:39:11 PM
[b]are you suggesting we search for a freshman who has no handwork to show us what he stands for? I just dont get it.

What is it you do not really understand in my statements so far?

The fact that I find our need to recycle pathetic? Or the fact that I feel we seem to be heading in the same old direction which has us lowering our standards, and naming messiahs where we ought to have learnt that we do not need any more of those? I am not sure what part of that you are having a hard time with.

I have highlighted in red what he doesn't get. It is impractical to suggest that we surmount new leaders if they arent pursuing the interest.
Please share some names if you know any promising leaders (perhaps unknown to some of us) .

My 2 cents - Not all post should end up in a [b]heated [/b]argument as this might end up. Simply express your views and be rest assured that you intellect (which i don't doubt) would be more profound. - No hard feelings, just my 2cents

@Sherry

@Shesi your fact is everywhere,even in Accra. Tell a young girl please I want to buy water and the next thing you will hear is " minti brofu"I don't understand English!!.

That was petty.

@BennyBoy11

Diane abbot called Nigeria a failed state or something but sends her only son to be educated in Ghana because she has enough confidence in the place.

@BennyBoy11

Are you still insistent on this Ghanaian illiteracy nonsense? Saying it several times won’t make it true you know. Check the illiteracy rates for both countries you are computer literate aren't you?

Let me remind you my dear broken English is not as popular in Ghana as it is in Sierra Leone and Nigeria and remember speaking broken English is not speaking English so stop exhibiting your ignorance.

Talking about education aren't Nigerians fighting tooth and nail to get into Ghanaian universities?

I enjoyed your eloquence and I flatly agree with you that Ghana is heading in the right direction ahead of my beloved Nigeria. However, (let me pick on you by offering an) advice that you avoid rewarding demeaning comments such as the one suggesting that Ghana had high illiteracy level as you did (in the above quotes). It is admirable to be patriotic but making comparisons like that, provoked or not, is a waste of time and easily mistakable as bragging.

@Gbawe

I have stated repeatedly that Nigeria is not a Giant of Africa. That tag is meritoriously deserved by South Africa.

This could not be truer

@Londoner-

You are comparing yourself to Nigeria while Nigeria is at its weakest and you at your strongest. When both counties are on the same footing, then judge. You cant be standing up while a man is lying down and claim you are taller, lol

seriously Who has time to wait for a stunted giant,  Ghana should walk tall IF they can back it up!!!

@Gbawe
Let's assume Ghana isn't the so called "Giant of Africa" (rightfully or wrongfully), do you beleive that Nigeria as of it's present embarassing state merit that tittle? For me, it is laughable to think we (Nigeria) can claim such greatness.

Brilliant writer but that is where it ends.

-- hmm, not so much for me soon as i looked pass the robust diction, i found it a little nuanced, repititous, and particularly the analogy probing that "Is Nigeria The Capital Of Hell?" to be an hyperbole to the actual aggregate of the (great) despair and (slim) hope that exist in the country. Nigeria is not hopeless, but hell is, as the excerpt "abandon all hope ye who enter here" quoted by this author suggest to imigrants of hell.

Nonetheless, no one could successfully argue against the fact that the state of Nigeria is simly chaotic and filled with despair.

We need solution, we need plans to get us out of the 'hell'

can he do that or shut-up?

Hell or Paradise depends on what you make it to be.

This is exactly my stance, rather than dwell on what is obvious to any 4 year old nigerian, we need ideas/solutions to these issues.

@Nolongting

I think that is a good point, however is Nigeria going to change with Twitter and Facebook? Lets be honest, those applications were designed for a genuinely democratic nation like the U.S for example is Yaradua on Facebook? do they give a you know what? I think not.

LOL,  my mention of FB\Twitter was to suggest how easy it was to draw global attention - I cld care less of what Yaradua thinks abt the sites .
Since Abacha and our transition to so called democrazy, the perception of a peaceful protest COULD draw sympathy from other citizen across d globe - similar to the one shown to Iranians (with arguable success, but lets not get derailed with that).

Just so you know that I do not disagree with you, let me emphasize that I also think that there are other strategies that could prove to be more profitable, but i'd have to initiate them to prove it.
That said, I think it is unproductive for us to get caught up with this my-idea-is-better-than-yours kind of debate when we all seek a common goal(i hope) . While we may disagree to agree, our difference in approach should not deter us from making contributions led by individual convictions.

I would suggest maybe we start another thread where we can explore other ideas.

@Nolongting

But to respond to your point, there is one thing that ha been mastered by Nigerian officials and that is media control.  When is the last time you viewed a BIG nigerian event in the international media? This is not a coincidence those guys have it all covered

Good point,  if i may borrow your talking point; this would be a good situation to "use our brains" in giving the protest the right publicity it deserves - i.e through Facebook, Twitter, and mobile phones etc. 

Still one thing we can both agree on is that the protest (whether or not you buy into it) would not take away from what we don't have - light, but with any optimism it just might boldly express the common cause that we yearn for - freedom.

@nolongTing

The minute some policemen appear and spray some tear gas you and all your marchers will RUN RUN RUN  Grin Cheesy Wink Smiley, I have said it before and I will say it again Nigerians need to be inventive and change their way of thinking to get out of the current situation.

While I buy into the notion that Nigerians should employ other approaches as you have suggested, it should not negate any forms of demand for government  accountability.
Moreover, assaults from Nigerian policemen COULD further ignite such media frenzy that a protest begs for,

@kobojunkie

Most of us who are online will probably note be there on that date but I believe we can still make some noise on that day and right after; noise that will carry on till even after 2011 elections.

K. am on board with any progressive ideas, feel free to share whenever you feel your ideas are ripe,

@kobojunkie

I am not going to be there for the work, but even if only 200 people show up, still can be effective if there are other processes in place for people to protest in other ways.

It could be really helpful if you suggest some additional\other "processes" that could be put in place, Thanks

Quote from: Beaf Today at 04:53:44 AM

Quote from: Sky Blue on Yesterday at 08:32:44 AM
If you don't fully understand what someone posted there is no shame in asking for clarity, again completely OP (off point). Firstly, not everybody will agree with you that MEND is credible hence if some might find hero or freedom fighters more beffiting a suitable comparison, allow others who will likely see comparisons with armed robbers as more beffitting to hold their own views.

With regards to your statement of the "second part in bold" as you refer to it, I would just leave it as this: the sarcasm was lost on you. The point I was trying to make was, do we now wait for formation of armed struggles for every single darn thing?

When you are quoted and caught pants down, you deny your own words straight away as sarcasm! Shocked Shocked Shocked
You want to dance on two sides of the fence.

@ Beaf - while i thought you had a few good points, I'd have to say that i'm astonished you missed the "sarcasm" in Sky_blue's response to Obeledu's argument -

Quote from: Obeledu, July 18, 2009, 02:51 PM
If MEND can invest some of the money they made from stolen crude in some of their wards or even local government, i bet you they will win peoples support, not this mindles destruction of environment.

.

With all due respect, let me advice that moving forward you read posts in entirety to avoid embarrassments as such.