₦airaland Forum

Nonsense - whole of Scandinavian are social states - welfare state - nanny state - social state work well in small rich nations. It also work well in homogenous democratic states. Even Switzerland is social state.

The same with communism - it can only survive in an homogenous state.

It difficult to pull a social state in an heterogenous states - that is why democracy thrive with capitalism - most nations

Just40:
exactly why no democracy want to deal with socialism.

It is heavily practiced by communist, feudalist, monarchies, authoritarian and totalitarian

That is communism. Both socialisms and communism are equalitarian in objective. But they are not the same. Social states allows private sector to thrive and then taxes it - like Norway - 50% - and use the money to provide social services to everyone. Therefore the public sector and Private sector are nearly equal -50-50.

Communism - criminalize wealth in private hands, nationalize everything, all companies are publicly, and name it. It therefore breeds laziness, envy and poverty. And therefore can only survive in dictatorship.

Many example in Africa - use to do that - Ghana, Tanzania and Ethiopia.

BUT there is no doubt that Capitalism is the best - and has eliminate poverty than any other system.

Just40:
you are funny

Socialism emphasizes on social control (communal)

It even discourages democratic controls because it uses the state as an authority for equal wealth distribution to lessen the class structure.

That's why it controls the means of production

Sound like Ghana to me.
Otherwise you're selling crazy theories.
1) Communism - No private ownership to property. Communal rights. 100% public sector. No private sector. Example - North Korea
2) Socialisms - Private ownership. Large gov or public sector. Gov taxes the rich heavily and use it to lift the poor. Example - Scandinavian countries
3) Capitalism - Private Ownership - large private sector. Small public sector - mainly as regulator. Very little social services. Example - US, Kenya.

Just40:
you have no idea

It was a core socialist society and socialism does not require democracy as a system of government to exist.

Socialism thrives in monarchies, feudalism, communism, totalitarianism, authoritarianism and etc

No apertheid was Boer Idea. British gave the Boer independence in after the world war II. And shortly the rest of Africa - as this was key condition that US had forced on colonial European powers to benefit from Marshall Plan so they can rebuild their destroyed continent. Africans started getting their independence in 1950s and the South Africans black similarly demanded the same from their new colonizers the Boer; the Boer as minority dug in; and enacted apartheid as means to preserve their newly found power.

AmenhotepZuid:
Kikuyu BRITISH IMMIGRANTS were better EDUCATED than boers in 1795-1900 they earned HIGHER than HALFSLAGS (products of rape sex between freeburghers and non white slaves=afrikaners of today).

Kikuyu let me school you IDIOT these photos explain the idea behind apartheid in SA from 1875-1940s SA had AFRIKANER POVERTY PROBLEM. This worried boer politicians who begged the Brits who controlled SA then and begged them to help them end boer POVERTY. Guys like Rhodes heard their cry and came up with a race based idea called apartheid. APARTHEID was a British idea boers were later IMPLEMENTING AGENTS. Apartheid was about cutting COMPETITION between boers and blacks,coloureds, asians who had access to EDUCATION during the BRITISH ERA in SA 1795-1930.

If you know your BOOKS boy you learn that then boers were a RURAL VOLK/PEOPLE who struggled to adapt to URBANIZATION and INDUSTRIALIZATION that was introduced by the BRITISH COLONISTS. The ARCHITECTS,ENGINEERS, ACCOUNTS etc..that BUILT S.A. INFRASTRUCTURE then were EDUCATED in the UK. Example the UNION BUILDINGS & SA PARLIAMENT were design by a BRITISH ARCHITECT SIR HEBERT BAKER these 2 look similar to other BRITISH IMPERLIST BUILDINGS in INDIA and other former British colonies. Those buildings have nothing to do with boers were an OPPRESSED RACE just like non whites.

The residential sector in Accra is divided into the following segments;
• High End- Estates in Accra such as Cantonments, Osu, Ridge, Airport Residential, Dzorwulu and parts of Legon
• Mid End- Estates in Accra such as East Legon, Ringway, Shiashi, Spintex, Madina, Oyibi, Teshie and Klagon
• Lower Mid End- Estates in Greater Accra such as Tema, Kwabenya, Adenta, Madina, Katamanso, Dansoman,
Darkuman, Ablekuma, James Town and Afienya

Insightful read by Cytonn on Ghana real estate
https://www.cytonn.com/uploads/downloads/accra-real-estate-investment.pdf

The real estate sector is dominated by informal market players taking up 90% of the market share
• There has been increased involvement of the private sector with firms such as Devtraco, Trasacco,
Regimanuel Estates, Clifton Homes, Manet and CPL taking part in development
• The government has also partnered with firms that have financial muscle such as Regimanuel
Estates, SSNIT (Social Security and National Insurance Trust) to provide affordable housing

Ghana is faced with multiple land ownership issues and litigations mainly due to the communal–
system of land ownership , which, is a hindrance to development as it makes the process of land
acquisition cumbersome
• There is also inadequate land for development especially within Accra

The cost of debt in Ghana is high, with lending rates ranging from 19%-35% per annum on the Cedi
and approximately 13%-16% on the USD
• This is a challenge to both development and purchase of real estate as it limits affordability. As of
2015, Ghana Home Loans, which has at least a 47% loans market share, had provided loans worth
USD 97.1 mn to only 1,651 beneficiaries. The mortgage to GDP ratio stands at 0.25% as at 2010
compared to Kenya at 2.7% as at 2016.

The Nairobi west side - took the trouble to measure - roughly 250km square - from this remove kibera and related slums - about 10km max - and few middle lower class estates - and forest.

And you can tell Nairobi upper middle and high end estates occupy more than 200KM - larger than entire Accra city.

If you add middle class estates in other parts of Nairobi - then it become more than half of Nairobi. LET NOT TALK ABOUT NAIROBI METRO

Nobody really bother with Accra East Legon - Lower middle class estates.

And video evidence of how expansive it is is all here - starting from Garden estate near Kasarani to Ridgeways to Muthaiga to Runda to Nyari to Rossyln to Kitusuru to Lower Kabete to Loresho to entire westland/parklands to kilelewsha to kilimani to Lavington to spring valleys all the way down to Karen....is almost uninterrupted high class residences except for few apartments and business districts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-2t6FqELxs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXRvgio_X4M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLcBtJ1Hmas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3NIgWNh1Vs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8mr97ZGMJg

what makes it irrelevant? South Africa have no zoning laws defining the land size or density? How can supposedly Accra rich estate plots be as small as your sense?

jln115:
why not? You went through the trouble to write an entire essay of irrelevant kak

A nut case. He is just like KaziKazi. And somebody except this slowpoke will take Tanzania forward.

leQubit:
Magufuli speaks out


"When this respiratory disease erupted last year, we won because we put God first and took other measures. I'm sure we will win again if we do so this time around," he said.

"These diseases including the respiratory disease, exist, and have killed more people in other countries... we will all die, whether with this disease or malaria or any others. Let's go back to God, maybe we messed up somewhere."

Ghana is really undeveloped.

Shma2020:
I got this from one of your compatriot who also happens to be my friend.

What kind of a village is this? As usual that yellow - red - green tower will always show up as a display for country's reputation

Guy, you have a long way to go

Precisely. They are stuck in almost feudal land system.

Kenya gov in recent years issued 3 million title deeds - that unlock a lot of value chain in the property market.

Kenya need to focus on distributing more title deeds in community land - most of northern kenya plus coast - to allow people to sell or borrow from it - and bring in new investment.

Otherwise who will invest in community land - where you need to see the chief or the king like Ghana

kikuyu1:
It's telling Gh is STILL after all this time stuck on traditional land tenure systems. With all its implications on finance, real estate development, socio economic progress etc, etc.

Grass cutter won't be a delicacy if you were living decent lives. It's friday and Nairobeans are starting the weekend with Nyama Choma

I am off - the amount of goats we consume must be millions


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ6X_sE9Q3w


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3cYVq5V_sU

Just30:
another diversion

Say no to low standard living in Kenya and you might be able to build beautifully well-developed communities like Ghana has and your standard of living and quality of life will improve

LOL - Now we are including East Legon hill - and comparing it with WORLD CLASS ESTATES. We had accepted East Legon for Size Argument sake. Turn out to be mere 2 by 2...5kms square..size of Kibera slum.

vankelvin:
That's the size of East Legon excluding
--East Legon Hills
--West Legon
--North Legon etc

The usual nonsense from the resident madman.

Just30:
East Legon Measure 32 square kilometres in size.

Next time dont depend on outdated wiki info.

There are simple map tools to use

Kilimani/kileleshwas,westland, muthiaga is 28 square kilometers in size.

You've ran away with your ugly 1/8 town houses - and apartment - boy just shut up. Even South African will shut up in apartments when it come to Nairobi. Egypt Cairo yes.

Just30:
Yeah we know the standards

Its is extremely low, rusty and rotting away.

The only nices apartments in Nairobi are usually for short stay rentals, because 99% of kenyans cant afford it.

Kenya is mostly freehold; a few leasehold; and community land in some parts of undeveloped kenya.
Ghana is mostly community land.

Kenya freehold works because whoever has the title deed is the absolute and conclusive owner. There is no chief or whoever to consult.

vankelvin:
It's because our land tenure system is different from what you have in Kenya.

Chiefs and families owns most of our lands unlike Kenya where the Kenyatta family owns most of your lands.

The Chief or the families can decide to sell their lands to anyone.

East Legon has a Total area of 4.95 km². That is as small as kibera.
Westland const - which is not inclusive of kilimani/kilelewshwa in that list is 97 SQKm. That is 20 times bigger.

Just30:
Combine Kilimani, kileleshwas, westland, parklands, muthiaga and Runda and you will have the size of East Legon.

These kind of houses you can find in Nairobi Eastland. ZONING is everything in Nairobi. There is space for everything. Rich people live in huge almost rural like land. They have powerful residential association. You cannot erect anything before very expensive approval process. You cannot get public transport. This why poor people erect illegal slums near them...in river valleys..so they can go hussle there.

vankelvin:
You are confuse, we are talking about properties/communities not Land size.

Check out these properties and tell me if they occupy full plots or half plots?

To get a half plot in Accra is not easy talkless full plots. As for big plot estates I give it to Kenya, you guys have more lands for such estates in Nairobi not in Accra-Ghana.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ihHmvaeeDM&t=274s

I am not alone . Very annonying for them to use word posh on 1/8 ugly townhouses.

gallivant:
Can you stop abusing the world mansion to sound sophisticated it's annoying. Don't call a bungalow or a maisonette a mansion it reaks of a village mentality.

Now welcome to BEST part of GHANA - ACCRA - East Legon -

Nairobi East-side.

Plot strictly 1/8 and below. Townhouses - and mostly huge highrises.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzhMtGkrEdM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sDvFOmus8o

Nairobi Middle class - mostly town houses and high class apartments - they are still in good side of Nairobi - these are KIlimanis, Kileleshwas, Westland, Parklands.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHTGESTFLYU

I am helping you understand why East Legon is like Nairobi Eastland - Lower Middle class. We will get there soon. It good that you've understood most of houses in East Legon are SQs for Nairobi rich.

vankelvin:
Who is talking about land size here?
We are talking about the buildings and communities OR?

It's not easy to find empty land in Accra.
In Accra some people build on half plots, all they want is * a beautiful apartment*.

Even the Cantonment, Ridge areas etc that used to do big land estate housing don't do that anymore. Shine your eyes.

Apartments in Kenya have their standards - from upper middle class to lower middle class - to pipelines. Some apartments in Nairobi cost anything from 0.5M dollars.

And they are not temporary. People buy units there. It's people houses. Majority of course by landlords.

Just30:


no diversions kiddo

Your vertical structures are mostly for short rentals.

they mostly remain empty.

while everyone lives in the slum

Huge? Nairobi upper middle class and high rise estate occupy nearly HALF NAIROBI landmass. It coz of huge land holding per individuals.

The apartments in eastland then carry on 2/3 of Nairobi. That small area of 10Kms square is parked with apartments.

That is how MODERN cities are.

Just30:
WHile we post a community as huge as East Legon, that has many estates in it, Rvp can only post an estate with barely 7000 people in it.

You choose communism and went bankrupt for record 17 times. You were bankrupt by 1962. And still today.

Kenya is capitalism. Kenyattas own like thousands of acres in Nairobi.

It doesn't mean we will lack land. We build VERTICALLY. That is why Nairobi has lots of high rises.

We cannot force people who can afford to buy 5 acres and put single unit to live together with you and your 1/8 of an acre.

Just30:


Rants

Even the rich in Kenya live is miserable properties.

In Nairobi, those mess of a property in Runda with shity interior designs and stuffs sitting on acres of land are village properties in Ghana.

Giving one acre for one person to live on while the remaining 4 million people live on 28 acres of land is miserable.

Here, we sell lands to make sure that whether rich or poor, you can at least afford to own 1/8 or 1/4th an acre to build your own mansion and live comfortably.

Again, this is one of many reasons why Ghanaians have higher standards of living and Quality of Living than kenyans

Until kenya fix it housing crisis for Kenyans to afford owning homes, the quality of living of kenyans will remain low.

Rundas are upper middle class - plot size of 1/2 acre and above. Still huge plot. And of course no apartment or tall building allowed; so you;ll have your privacy. These are new money folks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvGI4CGUkP0

Old Muthaiga - check the size of plots - and check the SQ - bigger than East Legon houses squeezed in 1/8 of an acre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IerrbiSMUhs

vankelvin:
You can only see portions of East Legon on YouTube, you won't see the entire East Legon in a video. FACT

Mind you, East Legon is not like your Ronda,etc estates which were developed by companies and can be seen in one video ( the entire estate).

East Legon covers
Real Estates
Private homes
Old East Legon area(the second video you posted) etc.

No need comparing apples with banana

Now so we don't do this again;

Example of Nairobi Upper high end houses: Karen, Old Kitusuru, spring valley, part of Lavington, Muthaiga.

Old kitusuru - houses in the estate are on 1 acre of land or more. Most are 2 acres and above - Land alone will set you at 2M dollar.

Majority has SQs for their staff that are better East Legon for their maids ,gardners and driver. Most people here have maybe 5-10 cars.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHbjb1RZFls

Muthaiga - these high end of Nairobi only old money live there - it simply unaffordable.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dbmr9umSPs8

Because of a little loosening of zoning laws - you'll find new Muthaiga, New Karen, etc to refer to less posh areas. OLD muthagai, kitusuru, etc refer to posh areas.

I see Karen has more comprehensive zoning now

ZONE AREA COVERED POLICY GUIDELINES
Zone 1a Miotoni • Minimum plot size; 0.5 acres, those fronting river to be 1 acre.
• Multi-dwelling units allowed.
• Cottage Industry, tourist related development & retails to be referred
to neighbourhood associations.
• Environmental Action Plan for Miotoni River
Zone 1b Windy Ridge &
Kerarapon
• Minimum plot size; 0.5 acres in Kerarapon, those in Windy Ridge &
fronting Mbagathi River to be 1 acre.
• Multi-dwelling units allowed.
• Environmental Action Plan for Mbagathi & Kandi River.
Zone 2 Mbagathi • Minimum plot size; 1 acre.
• Environmental Action Plan for Mbagathi River.
• Existing Karen shopping centre to remain confined on plots currently
occupied.
• No extension of user on adjacent plots.
• Cottage Industry, tourist related development & retails to be referred
to neighbourhood associations.
Zone 3 Bogani • Minimum plot size: 1 acre; may be lowered to 0.5 acres when services are improved.
• Cottage Industry, tourist related development & retails to be referred
to neighbourhood associations.
Zone 4 Karen Plains & Forest Edge
• Minimum plot size: 0.5 acre.
• Cottage Industry, tourist related development & retails to be referred
to neighbourhood associations.
• Environmental Action Plan for Mokoyeti River.
Zone 5 Karen Triangle • Designated as a special planning areas.
• Mixed use developments allowed: High Quality commercial, office
and public utility

Nairobi Upper class residence : These are estates where you cannot subdivide the land into less than 1 acres - and town houses or apartment are not allowed. Karen is good example - limit was 20 acres then became 5 acres and recently they allowed 1 acre max.

Example - Muthaiga, Karen, Spring Valley, Kitusuru. Here people have mini parks in their house with birds, monkeys and name it. Their SQ is like East Legon houses. They have helipads, children park, outside jacuzi, swimming pool, and enough space to play outside games.

No public transport is allowed here. Neighbors live far from each other. Privacy is key here.

The 2nd tier - Upper middle class - Runda is good example. These sits on 1/2 acre and above. Apartments disallowed.

The 3rd tier - 1/4 to 1/2 acre - Middle class. Apartment allowed. Town houses mostly. Apartment have max of 4 floors, have lifts, etc and to get approval is not easy.

The 4th tier - 1/8 to 1/4 acre - these lower middle class - hardly any space for two car ports - and that is pretty it. Apartment galore.

5th are the slums - any thing goes here.

I have seen East Legon - it's like Nairobi eastland. The other is like Nairobi metro - zero infrastructure. Kitengela.

vankelvin:
Grow up
You're behaving like a child.

The other time I remember telling you( I said that repeatedly) that East Legon hills is a newly developing area, infact it's an extension to East Legon.

I also remember telling you that East Legon is a big place covering about 2 Municipalities.
They have
--Multiples of Real Estate houses
-- Many Private homes etc

The video you just posted is East Legon Hills, which is a new place being developed by private people.

These are LOWER middle class estates. Not even proper middle class. These estates you find in Nairobi Eastlands.

In Nariobi - to help you - any house that sit on a 1/8 of an acre - that is lower middle class.

At least 1/4 acre you start becoming middle class.

But generally from 1/2 acre to 1 acres is upper middle class.

1 acre plus is now upper class - high end. This is why Karen is very highly ranked because units there on average sits on 5 acres of land - now reduced to maybe on average 2 acres. Previously it was NOT possible to subdivide Karen into unit less than 5acres - but majority sit even on 20 acres or more. The house in East Legon are SERVANT QUARTERS for staff in the rich house of Nairobi.

The more land the more facilities - but 1/8 of an acre - and you're saying the BEST you got

What can you squeeze in 1/8 of a plot.

Just30:
The East Legon that gaves Rvp sleepless nights after realising that no community in Kenya can match its development and sophistication.

Rvp has searched the entire youtube for a community in Kenya that can compare but has found none, because everything in kenya is low class.

Meanwhile, East Legon is just the third-best neighbourhood to live in in Accra.

Kenya need to work hard to develop good communities as this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igVnXBS7ThE&t=838s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY4ZSNg3N9U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebJ8qfWQFsM&list=LL&index=123


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhw11jqBIXA&t=49s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ihHmvaeeDM&t=274s