₦airaland Forum

Yes we are mostly rural because we own land. We are not like you guys who are forced to go live in urban areas if you cannot stomach tilling the chief or the kings land - and sharing the proceeds. The same way Boer has forced south africans to township after grabbing all the fertile land.

vaxx:
it is not pulled from anywhere. apart from the factual evidence that exist anywhere e...unless you really want to hide behind it.


your country is largely rural

That is just some NGO sensationalizing - kenyans own their farms- there is no chief or kingdom or stool - the few areas in norther kenya and coast without property titles - are being given it.

Appisko:
Kenya’s First President, Jomo Kenyatta, father to the current President, owns large tracts of the most productive land particularly in Central Kenya and at the Coast. Forbes Magazine placed the total land owned by Kenyatta and his family at 500,000 acres of prime land spread across the country.

A survey 2014 found that 50% of Kenya’s wealth is in the hands of political families, with the ownership of land providing the core of this wealth.

The skewed ownership of land is dire in a country where only 17% of the land is arable, with the rest mostly arid and semi arid. The Kenya Land Alliance says that more than 65% of this productive land in Kenya is in the hands of only 20% of the population

It like Europe feudal land system of the yore - this time worse. The west africans need to do away with these kingdoms and their stupid STOOL

leQubit:
Am really surprised on chiefs owning land in Ghana...so we back to golden stool age

Lets wait for final numbers - they must be busy crunching the last Q figures. If any change - it would be maybe -7.5%.

jln115:
what?

Slow. Let us address 4 factors of production.

Land - Almost 80% of land in Ghana is held under customary tenure. Community land = Communism.

Kenya has freehold land tenure with very strong property rights - and few customary land rights.

In such places - Kenya gov has been busy subdividing the land, registering and issuing title deeds.

Kenya the last few years has issued 5 million title deeds.
https://www.president.go.ke/2020/11/03/were-solving-the-land-question-through-issuance-of-title-deeds-president-kenyatta-says/

Just30:
something is wrong with your head

Chiefs are the rightful owners of land, held in custody for their communities. 40% of all lands, 30% are family lands.

This is not Kenya where your communist oligarch have taken all lands, leaving 99% of Kenyans extremely poor.
With no land to even farm on.

The private sector in Kenya is the single largest employer and the largest contributor to Ghana's GDP.

Ghana is not a fvcked up country like Kenya where the private sector is minute and almost non existent.
Here in Ghana, 94% of all companies are privately owned.
90% of all employment is created by the private sector.

In Kenya, the private sector only employs 67% of people.
This is extremely small

A low income country like Kenya where per capita income is a meagre 1750 dollars

I hope you'll show us the dollars

jln115:
South Africa is rebasing its economy...

http://www.statssa.gov.za/?p=14021

Projected to be annualized -7.8% while kenya has projection from -0.5 to +0.5%

jln115:
Think it's a bit less than -8% mate

"Gross domestic product (GDP) grew by an estimated 13,5% in the third quarter, giving an annualised growth rate of 66,1%.1 This follows the significant slump of 16,6% (annualised: -51,7%) in the second quarter during the most restrictive months of the lockdown (April, May and June)."

After -8% in 2020 that 4% growth is -4% from 2019 -1%. JZ is perfect excuse but South Africa problems stems from poor HCI (for country to move from mineral dependency to manufacturing), electricity troubles (ESKOM) and labour unions that are in bed with ANC. That is what is killing investment. Countries like Kenya and Ethiopia are going to fill that void.

jln115:
economic stagnation due to an incompetent JZ presidency ....
Those days are gone bro.... That's why our economy grew faster than expected in the last half of 2020 and why we have a projected growth rate of 4% for 2021!!

Kenya ongoing mega projects - the country is a huge construction site.
In the 2018 report, Kenya had an HDI of 0.578, in 2019 that jumped to 0.601. Kenya, also in a pandemic, has raised its GDP from 95 billion (2019) to 101 billion in 2020. Kenya has a future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLIRbURzciQ

Niamey Niger is also little paris
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Niamey_harobanda.jpg

vaxx:
Accra remain the little London.....

Ultimately all countries or societies are grappling with how to create prosperous yet equal societies in an environment of scare resources. We know free market economies as exposed by capitalist societies will create more wealth but also more inequalities. We know communist societies, as Ideal as it its, is unnatural, requires a lot of coercion and eventually bread laziness and poverty.

Gov has many tools including coercion of course but I think tax policy is the most ideal for re-distributing the wealth in such a way it also doesn't discourage hard-work and innovation. And of course dealing with public sector inherent inefficiencies as compared to profit-driven private sector - without even factoring corruption - is what most of time makes nonsense of gov attempt to re-distribute wealth. More often than not - taxes end up wasted in public sector administrative issues - and therefore future really is probably for gov - to just wire the money directly to poor people in some form of Guaranteed Minimum Wage or Universal Basic Income.

jln115:
- no government is pure capitalist, socialist or even communist anymore so yes I agree

- Nordic countries do have private schools and hospitals however those sectors are tiny..... But they do have them, and it is allowed, hence I would place these countries as democratic socialist states.... Also as you said socialism only really works in small and very transparent countries!

- Socialism is not dictated by tax revenue, everything about the South African economic stracture points towards democratic socialism... Large SOEs, High tax rates(especially for high income earners), Well fare, minimum wage ect ect
Also South Africa's tax revenue is higher than Switzerland at 28%

- socialism only works in a very accountable, transparent and Small countries.....

There is special category for Nigeria - it's a ZOO. Gov simply doesn't really exists. There is no electricity, no piped water, no sewage, no schools, no security. These countries includes Somalia. Tax to GDP is 5% to zero - like in Somalia. Gov is so underfunded - you simply have to do everything on your own including building road like Dangote, generate your own power, dig your own sewage.

Such countries the gov has either collapsed or is so dysfunctional or is war torn - people just try to escape it and immigrate abroad.

Kenya is poor but to imagine Nigeria with 4-5 times Kenya population run on similar budget is mindboggling. Public sector is totally kaput. Simple road or bridge takes 20-30yrs to complete. Pensions are not paid. Gov salaries delayed. The gov to debt servicing ratio is now 80%...meaning gov is essentially bankrupt.

All countries in the world - with a modern gov are socialist or communist by nature. That is whole point of having a gov. There is no gov that doesn't have some social services - at least nearly all provide schools, hospitals and basic social services.

Now what therefore distinguish btw communist, socialist and capitalist states or nation - is the % - it a spectrum.

The social states like Norway, Finland, Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark - have huge public sector - and taxes heavily - nearly 50% of GDP is gov revenues - the public sector is huge. They have "no" private schools, hospitals, roads, name it. The public sector is biggest employer. They provide free social services to everyone - not just the poor - the president will take his kids to nearest public school and go to the nearest hospital. The country is equally developed - there are no gated communities for the super rich. The private sector exists and thrives - because the gov facilitate - their work - the roads are great, the rails work, business works.

If you got to North Korea and few such remaining communist state like Ethiopia - you'll find that public sector is 100% - and private sector is zero. There is nothing private there. Everything is owned by gov. Instead of private companies - it either one or many parastals. Ethiopia for example doesn't allow private commercial banks, telecommunications and many other sectors....and they've open up a lot. Previously it was North Korea.

US, South Africa, Kenya are capitalist states. Tax to GDP ratios are 20-25%. That mean public sector is about 1/4 - while 3/4 is private sector. That means private schools, hospitals, name it are preffered because public sector is underfunded. That mean social services are nothing more than social safety net. It's not a way of life like in social states. It means gov will only assist you if you're poor. If you're not poor, you don't expect anything from gov, you basically arrange your schools, hospital, security, pay toll fees for roads, - and gov doesn't really bother with rich or middle class people.

The best countries in the world are without doubt socialist states. But there is of course causality and causation. These social states are very tiny homogenous nations. Can you scale social model to say China or India or US or Brazil without destroying the market economies that create wealth and fight poverty in big scale.

In my view - when a country has become developed or stuck a natural resource jackpot- it can afford to go socialist route. While developing it's best to let the magic of capitalism create wealth and create a social safety net for the poor.

Once poverty is history - you can move to equal happy society with little in crime or tension.

jln115:
South Africa was never a capatilist state, even under apartheid South Africa would still be considered a more socialist state however social services were focused on white minority only

As for Botswana.... Well Botswana is one of the most unequal countries in the world, just below South Africa and even economically speaking Botswana doesn't fair much better per capita wise even though it has a tiny population.

The worst thing you could ever do in a country is nationalisation, nationalisation is the first ticket to economic ruin.

Fact is capitalist countries in general are not just more wealthy but more equal to.... Even poverty figures are less in capitalist countries than socialist countries.

South Africa under ANC is socialist state or attempting to become one - although the private sector is still way bigger than the public sector. Under the Boer National Party - it was a racist capitalist minority gov - where all the wealth and means of wealth was concentrated on few hands - and public sector starved of funds for schools, hospitals and name it for the majority black. Never mind that all the wealth really came from mines - which should be handled communally - either heavily taxed or even nationalized. South Africa decided to give all the natural wealth to whites - if you look at Norway, Saudi Arabias, Libya (under Gaddaffi), UAE, and most of Arab state...they have done better in sharing the natural wealth. Botswana has also done way better than South Africa....where all natural wealth of the country are held by tiny Jewish- British cabal - yet clearly there is no so much one can innovate or benefits from market economy or capitalism in such a sector. It's either the minerals are there or not. Economies therefore dependant on natural resources - really ought to be socaliast or even communist. Otherwise it immoral to let one guy take all the money from the mine or oil well just because he owns it. It's not like he created the minerals like it's an Iphone or Tesla.

jln115:
It literally isn't......failing SOEs, corruption, populist policies are the reason for inequality

What your gov propaganda choose to call it is not what it really was. Yours was communism..the worst kind..like China and North Korea. Kenya practised capitalism but baptized it Africa Socialism. USSR was a communist state that call itself social state. North Korea call it's self the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea...yet we know it's hardly democratic or people centered.

Kazikazi:
Son,you don't know what u talk about.
Tanzania was a socialist state and is probably still that way today.

There was no time in TZ where the gov owned everything, or every company. But we had a time when a gov owned too many stuff but not all stuff.
Don't talk stuff like a madman.do a research before opening yir kibera mouth.
By the way,how is slum life?
Pwapwapwapwapwa pwapwapwapwapwa

I hope when you're done measuring horizontal built up area - you'll also start the vertical built up area.

Austine1212:
Lets stick to Nairobi

How much of it is built and urban?

Lets get to the 22000km², how much of it is built?

Political economics - the realm that deals with political systems (democracy) and economic systems (capitalism). Ideally capitalism is closer to economics (market economics) hence very successfully in creating wealth- and communism is really politics (equality) - popular but a colossal failure economically -and socialism is an attempt to marry the two.

Just40:
in this day and age, as grown up as you are

You dont know the difference between political and government.

This is crazy


Everything in this world is political

The church you attend, religion you belong to, the sexual orientation you choose, even the cloth you are wearing right now is political.

Swiss is an ideal democracy because people vote on almost everything; public sector is also good if not better than private sector;

kikuyu1:
INTERESTING fact! Guess the last country to give women 100% universal suffrage?


[url][https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2021/02/06/switzerland-marks-only-50-years-of-women-voting-and-ponders-gender-gap-todayurl]

In fact some cantons resisted Globo Homo demands til the 90s!



Smth to think ABOUT! Deafening bleating from the MSM, associated think tanks and their water carriers proclaims until and unless EVERY girlchild is politically involved nation stagnates: REALLY!?

Yes it huge. But it appears we dropped the ball - hopefully after fixing Nairobi - proper NMS - will fix Nairobi Metro

https://architizer-prod.imgix.net/mediadata/projects/312010/fa4978da.jpg?fit=max&w=1680&q=60&auto=format%2Ccompress&cs=strip

Shma2020:
Nairobi metro has nearly the same size as newyork metro.

Nairobi Metro is larger than all those cities combined possibly

Austine1212:
City sizes


Lagos, Nairobi, Accra and Pretoria..

Precisely.

Shma2020:
What's your point? I can see you've ignored jorburg and Capetown size and went to weeny SA cities.

Lemme add another city for you dingwad.
New York
City in New York State
Land area: 783.8 km²
Population: 8.419 million (2019)

City size means nothing.

Yes, the whites don't want to admit their poverty, they are languishing in rural america, which parts looking 3rd world. It's all racial pride. They think blacks and hispanic want to smooch the system.

leQubit:
its already happening but folks dont want own it..fact most folks in welfare in Us are from Republic poor states but their leaders will always accuse others of being socialist...Problems America is facing today can only lead to one and one output ..A socialist state... The other option is a civil war.

I tell you; imagine borrowing at 35%; unless you're selling drugs; I don't which business will earn you profit enough to pay the banker 35%. Even Shylocks would be afraid to ask for such interest.

Anyway what they do in Ghana and Nigeria - they use monthly interest - 35% - monthly is 3%

So they simply tell them they are borrowing at 3%

kikuyu1:
HAIYEEE! The lending rates are bad enough. The bolded makes me think their cognitive challenges may indirectly be a good thing like a blind man standing on a giant IED for a short time ignorance truly is bliss.

It difficult to pull it in US because of the many differences now. Europe will eventually become social states. Then South Asians. China can easily become a good social state - if it already isn't. They just need to embrace democracy. South Asians are mostly homegenous socities - so it easy to sit down and agree on something.

leQubit:
i would have liked to see Bernie Sanders presidency

Show me a democratic communist state - even though most often than not, they add the word DEMOCRATIC to their countries. You cannot have economic system without political system. This is political economics.

Just40:
kiddo

Learn

Democracy is a system of government

Capitalism is an economic system.


Socialism has nothing to do with which government structure you practice as long as you stick to it core function as an economic structure.

Dont get confused

Once you differentiate them on this basis, you will understand them


Socialism Carrie's the core revolutionary policies of probity and accountability but also, core anti democratic policies that make democracies shy away from it.

Precisely - the consensus now is to move toward socialism (with Guaranteed Minimum Income) - otherwise unequal capitalist societies like US, Brazil and South Africa - just breed chaos, crime, and a huge mess - just like North Korea bread poverty, laziness and envy.

leQubit:
the Nordic model.is the best...You really don t want extreme capitalism like in states or Communism like North Korea...

They both share the same objective - to create equal societies. Capitalism is on one extreme. Communism is one extreme. No single country is purely this or that. THEY ARE ALL IN SPECTRUM. Those in socialiasm spectrum are in the middle - embracing both good features of communism and also of capitalism.

jln115:
No..........Communism and socialism don't mix

Social states - are perhaps 50% capitalist and 50% communism

Just40:
and they are very capitalist.

In Switzerland, you get mailed almost every decision that the government wants to take for you to decide.

It is also a core capitalist society guaranteeing wealth amassing and private property.

It incorporates free healthcare and education by most and needs to compensate that by taxing everybody 50%

You're confusing democracy and capitalism. Capitalism in it's purest form - mean you can do whatever you want - with very little gov interferences, taxes and name it.

Socalist countries are very democratic - because they have to be VERY accountable - to be able to levy 50% of people earnings - without revolt. Those that cannot pull that - go for communism - which basically has to be authorian by nature.

Just40:
kid you dont know socialism

It has nothing to do with just taxing.

Scandinavian countries tax 50% and above to make their system work

A capitalist system with the good side of socialism

It only fails if public sector - gov become corrupt - and doesn't consult. I can give you example of Swiss. They hold referendum on nearly everything. Those countries are very democratic and have zero corruption. Public sector also work very well - public schools, hospitals, universities - so NOBODY CARES IF GOV taxes 50% of their wealth - because they do a good job in return. Nobody goes to private school or hospital or name it - if they even exist - because the PUBLIC SECTOR works.

It very difficult to pull democratic state in non homegenous countries - coz of racism, tribalism - etc.

Therefore social states are the most democratic.

Just40:
socialism will fail in a democratic country because of it nature.

Even the Scandinavian countries cant push themselves to practice socialism because it will lead to a decay of society.

Nobody in a democracy want to be called communism like country - but the moment you're taxing 50% of private earning - you're socialist state.

Just40:
all the Scandinavian countries are all capitalist countries tries that have incorporated the best part of socialism.

Go and call any Scandinavian country a socialist state and receive a slap in the face

Yes socialisms is confused with communism - and therefore receives a bad rap - when they are different.

jln115:
uhm no...............Socialism requires democratic control, the reason why democratic capitalist countries stay away from socialism is because of how similar it is to a communist economic system.