₦airaland Forum

jaephoenix:
Good. So why do Christians pray

because He's our Father, and we the children love to communicate with him.

abi u no dey communicate with your own father.

mynd1:
Cowards like you can only rant only. If you be man, try in naija if them no born you alive.

your madness is limited in the north of nigeria where u have the population.

try your stupidity in the south and see how u will be dealt with possibly by your own neighbours.

if in doubt, go and pray on 3rd mainland bridge and let's see the consequence.

How about all these nonsense western countries pass strict laws prohibiting all these radicalized muslims from constituting nuisance by blocking highways when performing their daily rituals.

road is mainly for vehicular movement and not for praying, why some muslims don't understand that I will never know.

LordLicifer:
Yes, my children are born abroad and i don't believe in sky daddy you are right, but i would never allow this kinda nonsense in my house but My children might say that they are adults and they can do what they like and i am not a billionaire if i was, would never ever allow this kinda nonsense! It would be shameful to me

Just like this son of a billionaire.

dey play. everything in life is all about indoctrination and what builds the framework of your moral fibre.

is that not why I opened 2 threads on this subject matter and asked very similar question like above case, atheists started attacking me saying they don't need a God to determine their moral fibre.

why would u tell your born abroad never to marry a 49 yr old divorcee way passed her prime and already has kids- someone that has completed her family as far as she's concerned.

why will u tell your son not to marry her if he truly loves her. u guys just don't fully understand the dangerous trend u are pushing by denying a higher moral supreme authority.
the outcome go shock all of u

LordLicifer:
See as una dey criticise the guy as na una money he take marry oyibo.


What you people don't get is any wealthy african or nigerian men are never keen on marrying african women they see them as gold digging women.

Look at our african footballers and hollywood actors

Lordlucifer I hope u are not living abroad. pls I take God beg u, even if u dont believe in any form of sky daddy...
for the sake of your children living abroad, at least be a cultural christian and push them to church.
otherwise they will end up exposing u to shame u never planned for.
what u are seeing up there is unrighteousness mixed with lack of cultural wisdom.

To imagine some blacks attended that wedding is beyond embarrasing. I even heard the boy na bachelor prior to this marriage.

to our nairaland atheist living abroad, continue indoctrinating your children with godlessness.

las las, na u go chop the disgrace those godless children brings home to u.

Qasim6:
Na only God know how Una dey read this Una Bible.

Because if you read carefully, you'll know they have been preaching another gospel, another Jesus since the days of Paul's.

Galatians 1 8-9 u quoted is about some people from Jerusalem, there are good indications to suggest they are from James and the original disciples preaching another gospel that is not Paul's gospel. Or was Prophet Muhammad in Galatia in the days of Paul?

No apostle of Jesus preached another gospel. I repeat noone who saw Jesus and spoke with him preached another gospel message from what Paul preached.
No Peter, not James the brother of Jesus or John.

The only person who preached a different gospel is Muhammed.

1 Corinthian 15 also called Corinthian creed has been shown to be a message that predate Paul.

Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve.

Peter also preached the same message with Paul.

1 Peter
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you,

The disciples of Jesus approved Paul message and even called it scripture.

Galatians 2
7 On the contrary, the disciples recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised 8 For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the Gentiles. 9 [b] James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. [/b]They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised. 10 All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along.

2 Peter 3
. 15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.


Instead another apostle of Jesus Christ testified and prophesied against Muhammed

1 John 2
22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

So did Muhammed tell people that Jesus is not the son of God and God is not a father.
Well the disciples of Jesus called him a LIAR.

I opened nairaland today only to see one of the staunchest anti subsidy propagandist here on nairaland confessing that the abrupt removal of subsidy and floating the naira had not yielded the expected benefit. The outcome is not surprising, what is shocking is that some people actually think these policies will bring any form of magical economic prosperity be it long or short term.

Anyone with simple idea of ecomomics doesn't need any harvard degree to know sudden removal of subsidy and floating the naira simultaneously will naturally have a disastrous outcome. For a country like Nigeria that operate an open economy, those 2 factors is an invitation for mass abject poverty and astronomical rise in cost of living. well those of us with pragmatic sense were not wrong.

Good thing is our own nairaland Adam Smith pseudo economist is now swallowing his vomit by admitting removal of subsidy was a mistake and done in error.

If u know the number of times me and this guy fought here because of subsidy removal and currency devaluation. He will tell u to heavens that subsidy must go and naira must be floated, anything to do contrary is harming the economy. He even went as far as arguing govt subsidising electricity, hospitals and university is the reason why Nigeria is broke.

He will tell u Nigerians should pay 100k/month to enjoy stable electricity, ought to sell their kidney to have world class hospital treatment and pay over 5million/session for quality university education.

I once told him gradual subsidy removal is the way to go and no country fully floats his currency- not China or america. Every country introduce tools to ensure their currency is immune to unnecessary global shocks. He blocked me.

Now he's here admitting sudden removal of subsidy and floating of the naira was a bad idea.

This are they kind of people Western global leaders train and then send over to Africa as 'economic experts' who should advise our naive African leaders on economic matters. That was how they misled IBB in the 80s on naira devaluation, forced open economy and foreign debt accumulation. Nigeria never recovered from that disastrous IMF policy.

Now we can see why most African nation economy is in shambles. When your own people give u rubbish ideas to implement, who do then turn to for salvation??
Funny enough, this same people will still turn around and blame u when the so called policy they force u to implement fails. Already IMF is blaming Tinubu for the current nation's woes.

I hope those who blindly support these dubious IMF/world bank policies will eventually realize they can never bring any meaningful development for the continent.

honesttalk21:
You previously said we were done, yet you reopened the issue. So let’s settle all 3 claims: sacred, deified, or worshipped. Deut. 16:22 must establish which category it forbids. If sacred means religious significance, your Bible contains religiously significant stones. If deified means treated as a deity, show Muslims believe the Black Stone is a deity or independently forgives sins. If worshipped means directing worship to it, show where Islam commands worship or prostration to the Stone. Touching it proves none of these by itself.

we will discuss further in the future.

But u conveniently ignore the most important - veneration of the stone.

I believe your theology has been heavily influenced by judeo christian tradition. I serioulst doubt someone like u will travel to pilgrimage and kiss the stone in return for remission of sin.

and this brings me to the bigger question, why do u muslims rejects God can forgive sin thru Jesus when u believe a mere stone can be a medium of expiation of sin.
it makes absolute no sense. I am beginning to think islam has no independent theology of its own but just antagonise any christian theology even if it contradicts islam

doffman:
See this one disgracing himself online : Shioor ,

Did I ever tell you the story is not true about pre Islamic time .

No be you want to lie and portray it as if Muslims are doing the act currently .
Up till now ; you still avoid the question 🤣

Did you also believe that the story was in existence doing pre Islamic time and not current Islamic time ?

Yes or no ?


🤣

Answer that if e sure for you nah

according to the hadith it's a true story that happened during pre-islamic period.

so now that we are in islamic period, are u now saying monkeys dont stone fellow monkey for adultary anymore OR humans don't join them in stoning cheating monkeys.

which one is it

doffman:
After I have answered your questions over and over , So it is hard to explain who you worship ahaaaa. 🤣

You guys always think everyone will be a follower of liars like you Christian . You should know that we get 🧠 and we reason well; we do not follow blindly like you in Christianity .


You just said this now :

Then u asked me who do I worship. And I said YHWH.


Now , further , for you to also say this :

“Then u wanted to know if u worship Jesus Christ”

After all ; you previously in my past encounter with you before you ran away , u once supported the notion in the past that you can worship Jesus nah ; why are are u lying again now🤣. Any way, no problem o ; just don’t let me see you say you worship Jesu o .

That means you are not sure if you are worshipping Jehovah as you claimed .


Moreover , And you have been asking me several times if God has a son 🤣


I have told you repeatedly, He did not have a son and he did not ask us to worship any son . Period .
Na by force for God to have a son 🤣.
If you think I am lying give us proof that says where he said he has a son na. Period : Tuehh

Let me call honesttalk to come and help u. because I dont understand why u are ashamed of your prophet.

u are embarrassed by what your prophet said he would do if he had known Allah has a son.

I don't think I should continue asking u this question if u are not even confident of your faith as a Muslim. because all I see here is denying what your prophet openly declared.

My question is not Does Allah have a Son? I never asked u that, so why are u telling me Allah doesnt have a son.

My question is Let's say he has a Son as hypothesized in the Quran; should that Son be worshipped? Yes or No

Muhammed answered and said He will definitely worship the son of Allah.

so doffman what will u do, will u join Muhammed to worship the Son of Allah if he has one.

pls honesttalk help him to answer

I can't believe our own nairaland Adam Smith pseudo economist called nairaland1 is now eating back his vomit by admitting removal of subsidy was a mistake and done in error.

If u know the number of times me and this guy fought here because of subsidy removal and currency devaluation. He will tell u to heavens that subsidy must go and naira must be floated, anything to do contrary is harming the economy.

I once told him gradual subsidy removal is the way to go and no country fully floats his currency. Not China or america- every country introduce tools to ensure their currency is immune to unnecessary global shocks. He blocked me.

Now he's here admitting sudden removal of subsidy and floating of the naira was a bad idea.

U see this are they kind of people Westerners see and then send over to Africa as 'ecomomic experts who should advise our African leaders on economic matters'

Now we can see why most African nation economy is in shambles. When your own people give u rubbish ideas to implement, who do then turn to??
Funny enough, this same people will turn around and blame u when the so called policy they force u to implement fails.

I keep saying it, the biggest economic mistake we made as Africans is allowing our local economy be exposed to global economy without any restrain. It weakened our currency and made cost of living unnecessarily high beyond the reach of the common man.

Asia followed a different route, their protected their economy for a long time, refuse to float their currency and we can see the result today.
Cost of living is extremely cheap and standard of living is better in most Asian countries.

doffman:
SIRTee15

🤣 why are you afraid ti answer my question nah :


So now ; you have admitted that Jehovah is your God and not Jesus ; nice one, you are doing well . At least , you are being heal little by little ahaaaa.

But you have not answer it completely :

Do you worship Jesus or you worship only that your Jehovah you called father ?

Answer my question completely before I pass my judgement on you 🤣. Because I will compare you with your fellow unbelievers o .

This time , I will not allow you to run away .

🤣🤣

U are done. Completely finished. Na your ego won't allow u to admit you are done

You asked me who is my God. I answered Father.

You insisted to know who is Father. I replied YHWH.

Then u asked me who do I worship. And I said YHWH.

That is 3 questions already answered directly.

Then u wanted to know if u worship Jesus Christ.

But before I answer that question I need u to answer a simple direct question. It's only fair.

If Allah has a Son, should the son of Allah be worshipped. Yes or No.

It's a simple direct question. Over a month, u refuse to answer the question

Mohammed said he will not hesitate to bow down at the feet of Jesus and worship him if he had known he is the Son of God.

Your own prophet answered the question by saying Yes. If Allah has a Son, he will definitely worship the Son of Allah.

Now be like your prophet, and answer the simple question.

If Allah has a Son, should the son be worshipped. Yes or No.

When u answer the question, I will tell u if I worship Jesus or Not

doffman:
Ahaaaa🤣 don’t worry , I will catch you now !

Yes , the story was pre-Islamic story and it was true during pre- Islamic time

You can see , I answered you directly .

Now answer my own :

During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.

According to the story above , does it happened during pre Islamic period or during current Islamic practice ?

Answer direct ; no story o 🤣

Ok good. Now that u admit the story is true. Tell us how did the man know they were stoning the monkey for adultery.

Was it the monkeys that told him they were stoning because of adultery.

That it happened on pre-islamic is not the issue. The issue. That's completely irrelevant. What's important is if I become a Muslim, will I be forced to beleive the story is true.

doffman:
Ahaaaa 🤣🤣 you don’t care if the story was pre Islamic or not ? Chai

Then why are you lying and make it sound as if such act is accepted in the Islam .

This is another evidence that you lied a lot and you don’t understand things .

You will not run away seh 🤣

Next time , you will be conscious of what you bring here 🤣


When will told you guys that you don’t know anything , we did not lie nah .

During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.

Even with a simple English written bodly in the story that it was during pre Islamic , you still want to lie and fabricate the story ahaaaa.

Agbakooooooooo ni Christian people seh ; no wonder God is disgracing your pastors everywhere nah .

People now wise man ; you will be wise also If Allah wishes

Shioor

U don't answer questions, why?

Is the story true. That monkeys were stoning a monkey accused of adultery and aan who later became a Muslim joined them is stoning the monkey.

Is the story true? Why can't u answer.

Yes, the story is true even thought it's pre Islamic

Or

No the story is pure nonsense

Which one is it.

RandomFellow:
While the literal root of rakiba (ركب) means to ride or mount an animal, in classical Arabic literature and lexicography (such as Lane's Lexicon), "yarkabun" is a well-known idiom meaning to crowd, pack tightly, swarm, or press heavily against someone due to eagerness or overwhelming numbers.


NB: I'm not a muslim. I just enjoy literature, and try to get contexts in spoken/written words

IS THAT THE REASON THE MEN WERE NAKED? They wanted to crowd muhammed so they removed their clothes.

and why was muhammed surrounded by multiple naked men at night in the middle of nowhere. what exact message are we suppose to learn from that.
and why were they pressing their naked body on him, either mount him or crowded him.
and the hadith said muhammed was so tired by the whole ordeal he collapsed.

Godfullsam:
The guy doesn't sound like someone fighting for any mohammed.

The truth of the matter is you don't play fire and still expect it not to burn you.
Saudi is an islamic country, you don't go there to criticise mohammed and expect to escape the penalty.

Even Nigeria that is a secular country (on paper), you don't go to the far north to f*CK with mohammed and go free

Your Koran clearly told u Muslims not to insult non Muslims deity lest they insult Allah too.

Why can't u follow your own Koran. That ruling was unjust and should not stand.

And do not justify jungle justice, it's a problem everywhere that should be condemned.

dofman:
🤣🤣🤣 guy calm down . You can’t mix things together , I must exposed you seh and I will avoid any distractions ; this is what you u used to do before you will run away ahaaa.


So now ; you have admitted that Jehovah is your God and not Jesus ; nice one, you are doing well . At least , you are being heal little by little ahaaaa.

But you have not answer it completely :

Do you worship Jesus or you worship only that your Jehovah you called father ?

Answer my question completely before I pass my judgement on you 🤣. Because I will compare you with your fellow unbelievers o .


Also , you asked me this :

If Allah has a Son, should the Son of Allah be worshipped.

The answer is in your quran. answer it and I will respond to your next question.


🤣 guy , I have answered you several times nah .

Allah does not have son and he said it categorically that he did not have a son ,

As him does not have son , case is closed because he did not ask us to worship any son as he do not haste one or asked us to worship anything apart from him .


Surah Al-Ikhlas (112:3-4): "He neither begets nor is born, nor is there to Him any equivalent."


Surah Al-An'am (6:101): "Originator of the heavens and the earth. How could He have a son when He has not a companion and He created all things?"


Surah Maryam (19:35): "It is not befitting for Allah to take a son; exalted is He! When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is."

Surah Taha (20:14)" It is truly I. I am Allah! There is no god worthy of worship except Me. So worship Me alone, and establish prayer for My remembrance."

As you can see he did not has a son and he said we should worship him alone .

Now ; if you think I am lying , show any verse that says Allah has a son , so simple nah 🤣🤣

Na by force to worship a son like you guys worship a creature ; Shioor tuehhh

U ARE finished. u are completely done for

if u have any iota of shame u will cover your shame and exit the thread. because there is no going forward for u.

u are stuck. I set a trap for u, and u ignorantly fell into it. There is no way u are getting out unless you concede to my belief.

Your first question was 'Who do I worship" and I replied The God called Father.

u insisted U want the personal name of my God and I replied The personal name of my God is YHWH and that is the God I worship.

Now that is 2 questions from u and answered by me. I gave u direct answer, not beating around the bush

It's only fair u answer only one question, direct question. answer the question I asked u. not the one I did not ask

If Allah has a son, should the son be worshipped. U replied Allah doesn't have a Son. but that is not my question.

My question is if Allah has a son, should the son be worshipped. Yes or No.

My question cannot be called unreasonable or anti-islam because the answer is directly in the koran.

Your koran answered the question I'm asking u. why u cannot just repeat the answer already written in the koran is bewildered and beyond imagination.

Never in my life have I seen someone so ashamed of his koran like what I'm seeing here with doffman.

doffman u are finished. U have been completely destroyed. I have proven u are theologically incompetent and highly ignorant.

However, I will give u one last chance to redeem yourself. just one last chance otherwise, I will officially declare u my boy- I belted u.

u will be declared done and dusted.

Now redeem yourself. U already asked 2 question which I answered. u want to ask more but I have a right to answer one question before u proceed.

If Allah has a Son, should the Son be worshipped. doffman answer the question and redeem your image

Your may lose this argument but u will earn your respect as a true and loyal Muslim.

Now answer the question directly, If Allah has a son, should the son be worshipped.

dofman:
🤣🤣🤣 guy stop running away nah . Why are you avoiding the initial question ? Ahaaaa

You can’t quickly run and throw me another question while you ran away from my own question .

You must answer it seh and I must exposed your Yansh as I did to your fellow unbeliever :

Who is your God ?

You said you God is your father .

What is the name of your father nah 🤣🤣

Or your father don’t have name ?

You must tell us the actual name of your God as I mentioned my God name as Allah 🤣



You did not answer this with yes or no 🤣

I asked again :

Do you worship Jesus ? Yes or no

These questions is really giving you tough of time to answer because you already know that you cant say the truth nah 🤣

You must answer o .


Omo , it is so glaring you also lack comprehension; I tought you said are English teacher that undertands words ahaaaa.

You brought this :


If Allah has a son, should he be worshipped. According to surah 43.81, the answer is YES, THE SON OF ALLAH SHOULD BE WORSHIPPED



In your missionary English , does that mean Allah has a son ? 🤣🤣🤣

Yes or no ?

Shioor tuehhh


Allah has told you long blank that he did not has a son and he said we should worship him alone , so you want us to believe the God or you unbeliever that doesn’t even know his God ? 🤣🤣🤣

Guy answer my question and stop running away .

It has been long you used to be running away . This time , I will catch once and for all .

Oya answer my own question o

😂🤣😅😂🤣😅

I thought u will deny the verse. Why were u running from the verse all this while.

Finally we know if Allah has a son, the son of Allah should be worshipped.

Lobatan. End of discussion.

The painful thing is that Muhammed didn't know Allah had a son because he didn't read the injeel, otherwise he would definitely had worshipped Jesus. He was illiterate who couldn't read or write so had no idea what was written in the injeel.

Now u doffman can read the injeel and u know Jesus is the Son of God.

So my question should be according to your Koran. If Jesus is the son of God, should he be worshipped.

Yes or No.

Answer the question

dofman:
Guy stop avoiding the question nah .
How does this relate to what you said :



During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.

Is Muslims still practice this act ?

Yes or no ,

If you can’t answer that mean you are a liar o


Or do you want us to be like Satan in every deeds ; no nah .

Believers anre opposite of unbelievers ; the light is different from darkness . Guy 🤣

Is this story true. Yes or no.
That's what I want to know.
I don't care if it's preislamic or not.
If I become Muslim, will I beleive monkeys were stoning another money for adultery and a man joined them in stoning.

honesttalk21:
You defined sacred on Oct 4, 10:27pm: importance or deification, something that must be treated as holy. Deification? You said nobody said it's God. Holy? In that same post you list altars, the Temple's stones and the two tablets of the Ten Commandments as ordinary stones, yet God commanded all three and they were treated as holy, so holiness alone can't be the problem banned. Nasa'i 2919 gives the same sin-erasing to the Yemeni corner, which has no Black Stone, so the reward follows the rite, not the stone. You are still unable to answer: where does the Bible name the Black Stone as the Deut 16:22 pillar, and where is a Muslim told to prostrate to it?

Forget my definition because u keep deflecting Avery example I bring.
So I want to work from your paradigm.
Define what should be considered sacred stone according to Deuteronomy 16.22

Is Yemeni corner not another stone in the kabba that if one touch it remove sin.
We still saying the same thing.
Define what should be considered a sacred stone.
because I don't understand how merely touching a stone leads to removal of sin. Pls make it make sense

honesttalk21:
Yes the Torah predates Islam but that doesn't prove your conclusion. Islam does not claim the Torah must mention the Black Stone. And your Bukhari citation doesn't say what you think. The “we worshipped stones” report in Bukhari 4376 speaks generally of stones; it never identifies the Black Stone. So it cannot prove when the Black Stone became sacred or that it originated in paganism.
Tirmidhi 961 likewise doesn't make the Stone divine. Testifying on Judgment Day is not divinity; the Qur’an says people's own limbs will testify too (24:24).
And Umar explicitly said of the Stone: “you are a stone and can neither benefit nor harm anyone” (Bukhari 1597).

So the evidence distinguishes sacred ritual significance from worship. Your argument conflates the two.

Let me ask u a question what does a sacred stone mean?

honesttalk21:
You keep collapsing religious significance, kissing, forgiveness and worship into one. They aren't interchangeable. The reports say touching the corners expiates sins, but that reward belongs to a prescribed Hajj/ʿUmrah act, not the Stone as an independent power. Allah forgives and is the only one able to. Umar ibn al-Khatta Companion of the Prophet pbuh; may Allah be pleased with him, kissed it while saying it can neither benefit nor harm (Bukhari 1597). That's an early Muslim position from someone who saw the Prophet pbuh do it, so calling it later Judeo-Christian influence is false. I even wonder about the obsession with a misrepresented act and claimed reward. Saying I am ashamed of the Stone is simply a personal attack, not an argument. I have no reason to be ashamed of what authentic Islam teaches. If you claim believers' practice proves deification, show the authentic text making kissing mandatory or failure to touch it a theological failure. You said any veneration is idolatry, so Jacob pouring oil on a pillar and Joshua falling before the Ark would be idolatry too. If someone prays to the Stone, that contradicts tawhid; his practice doesn't redefine Islam. Where does your Bible identify the Black Stone as the pillar banned in Deut 16:22, and where does it say that command binds Muhammad pbuh and Muslims?

THE TORAH PRECEDES ISLAM. SO THERE'S NO WAY IT WOULD TALK ABOUT BLACK STONE WHICH PROBABLY NEVER EXISTED AT THE TIME OF MOSES ACCORDING TO THIS HADITH BELOW.

OK lets call it a day. maybe another time I will bring it up. It's my favourite topic and I like discussing it because it shows Muhammed brought a strange religion.

This hadith makes me wonder when pre-Islamic arabs decide to stick with the black stone as the permanent sacred stone.
and the idea that the black stone is nothing but a stone with no value is not supported by the words of Muhammed himself.

doffman:
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Ahaaaaa. I said it , you will not bend keh .

Omo, just see the way this one is disgracing himself and stylishly avoiding my question ahaaa.

Oti danran seh . Ask me from your colleagues, I have exposed their yansh and I will do it to you also .

I must expose you seh :

I asked you these :

Who is your God ?

You said you God is your father .

What is the name of your father nah 🤣🤣

Or your father don’t have name ?

You must tell us the actual name of your God as I mentioned my God name as Allah 🤣



You did not answer this with yes or no 🤣

I asked again :

Do you worship Jesus ? Yes or no

the question doffman has refused to answer- If Allah has a Son, should the Son of Allah be worshipped


So let's answer the question for doffman because if we give him 1000 years he will never answer it.

now let's go to surah 43.81

Say: "If (Allah) Most Gracious had a son, I would be the first to worship (him.)"

Say, [O Muhammad], "If the Most Merciful had a son, then I would be the first of [his] worshippers."

doffman here is the answer u forcefully refused to answer.

If Allah has a son, should he be worshipped. According to surah 43.81, the answer is YES, THE SON OF ALLAH SHOULD BE WORSHIPPED


NO BE ME TALK AM, NA YOUR KORAN TALK AM.

Say (O Muhammad): If the Beneficent One hath a son, then, I shall be first among the worshippers.

doffman, Muhammed is telling u if he had known Allah has a Son, he will be the first to worship the Son of God. That's what Muhammed is saying.


Muhammed made it clear that if he knew God has a Son, he will jump the queue to make sure He is the first person to worship him day and night.
Muhammed is telling u he will bow at the throne of the Son of God and worship him if he knew about the Son of God.

doffman why cant u be like Muhammed who said he will be the first person to prostate flat in front of Jesus, hold his feet and worship him if he knew he is indeed the Son of God.

doffman listen to what Muhammed is telling u, listen and listen well. had muhammed realise Jesus is Son of God, he will never hesitate to worship Jesus.

Muhammed is telling u The day he gets to know Jesus is the Son of God, that same day (not the next day) he will bow at his feet and worship him.

doffman, this is the answer u refused to answer because u are ashamed of the answer. see your life in public.

so my next question will be

Did Jesus say he's the Son of God?
YES OR NO.

ANSWER MY QUESTION THEN I WILL TELL U IF I WORSHIP JESUS OR NOT.

That's only fair. u ask one question, then I ask mine next.

doffman:
🤣🤣guy , it is so glaring you don’t know anything . Leave the story nah. Must you lie ahaaa

During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.

Is this act , a current practice in Islam or during pre-Islamic ?


Answer that first ?

Catching liar like you is my hobby 🤣

answer my question my friend.

Why did your Prophet say satan eats with the left hand, or is that one also pre-islamic too

dofman:
Trash , Shioor.

You said this :


U worship facing a house that has a sacred stone. U now facing the sacred stone.

The verse said face the direction of house of God , does it say face the stone ? 🤣

Na you unbeliever want to make us like you guys that boy to Jesu stature . You don’t cast .
You guys do have cross and stature in your houses and church .

Just continue disgracing yourself .

Even your cross Dey Temu , go buy 🤣

Your pictures are meaningless to me.

exodus 20
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.

So anyone bowing to a wooden cross, image of Jesus or bowing before a stone will all end up in eternal damnation.


Deut 16
22 and do not erect a sacred stone, for these the Lord your God hates.

God told Moses do not erect a sacred stone in the land in my name because I hate it.

See what Muslims are doing.....why do Muslims disobey God's commandment.

Why??

doffman:
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Ahaaaaa. I said it , you will not bend keh .

Omo, just see the way this one is disgracing himself and stylishly avoiding my question ahaaa.

Oti danran seh . Ask me from your colleagues, I have exposed their yansh and I will do it to you also .

I must expose you seh :

I asked you these :

Who is your God ?

You said you God is your father .

What is the name of your father nah 🤣🤣

Or your father don’t have name ?

You must tell us the actual name of your God as I mentioned my God name as Allah 🤣



You did not answer this with yes or no 🤣

I asked again :

Do you worship Jesus ? Yes or no

The name of my God is YHWH, God Almighty.

That is the name of my God. He's also called Father in nominal designate.

Now answer my question. this is a dialogue not a monologue.

answer my question first, then I will answer your next question.

If Allah has a Son, should the Son of Allah be worshipped.

The answer is in your quran. answer it and I will respond to your next question.

If Allah has a Son, should he be worshipped.

Yes or No.

I dont want any exegesis. Just answer

dont be ashamed of your koran, The YES OR NO answer is screaming out in your koran.

honesttalk21:
Look at the pattern. Your test keeps shifting. First it was bowing, then kissing and touching, then you said it doesn't matter whether anyone bows, worships, kisses, or touches, because the offense is setting up a sacred stone. Then it was deification, and now you concede nobody calls it God but say any religious role is enough.
If the test is a religious role, your bronze-serpent analogy doesn't prove it. 2 Kings 18:4 says Israel was burning incense to the serpent, which is very different from Muslims kissing the Stone while affirming it can neither benefit nor harm. The same verse says Hezekiah smashed the sacred stones, but they are listed with the high places and Asherah poles, the pagan cult he was purging, consistent with Exodus 34:13. That shows pillars associated with idol worship were destroyed. It does not show that Jacob's pillar or Isaiah's pillar to the LORD fall under the same ban. And the serpent, the one object there that God Himself commanded, was broken only after Israel burned incense to it.
You can't say it doesn't matter what people do with a stone and then say what Muslims do with it proves deification. If a stone can witness without being a god (Josh 24:27), testimony can't prove deification. You called those examples irrelevant and Isaiah's pillar a mere monument, yet Isaiah calls it a sign and witness to the LORD (19:20), and the Hebrew word for it, matstsebah, is the same word as in Deuteronomy 16:22.
You say Isaiah's pillar, Jacob's pillar, and Joshua's stone are irrelevant because they aren't sacred stones. Fine. Then a pillar set up for the LORD is not automatically banned, so your rule that God hates any pillar in His name is wrong, and you must show what makes the Black Stone the banned kind. If you say they are sacred and do contradict Deuteronomy 16:22, then your own Bible contradicts itself, and you can't use one verse against Muhammad pbuh while ignoring the rest. Pick one.
So where does your Bible establish that the Black Stone is the pillar Deuteronomy 16:22 bans, and where does it establish that this command binds Muhammad pbuh and Muslims in the same form?

I think we done here.
For u to come here and say black stone has no benefit shows u are ashamed of that stone.
The stone forgives sin, the black stone forgives sin
I've seen people praying to the black stone. Why would they do that if it has no benefit.

Common man. What I discover.here is your Islamic theology has been heavily influenced by Judeo-Christian tradition and values and subsequently modified how u understand your religion.
U know if the black stone has any form of deification or veneration, it's idolatry and contradicts deut 16.22; that's why u fighting tooth and nail to prove the black stone is just sacred in name and not in value.
But that's not true.
I spoke to doffman here and he said he will fight to kiss the stone when he goes for Hajj. That is someone who doesn't care about Judeo-Christian tradition but u do and that is the problem here.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DbhphvesbQL/?stkn=MXJsaWx2NDQ3cm55eQ==

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DcgmjKJOHaw/?stkn=MWRtaXdvdzI1bTNneQ==

The bronze snake is not related to Asherah in anyway. It's always been in the temple since tje days of king Asa and Jehoshaphat 2 righteous kings.
But the veneration commenced later as a divine image. Something God hates and had it demolished.

honesttalk21:
Over this exchange, you have given four different tests at different times. First it was whether Muslims bow before the stone, yes or no. Then it was that kissing and touching are part of honoring it. Then it didn't matter whether anyone bows, worships, kisses, or touches, because setting it up was the offense.

Bowing before a stone, kissing it or touching with the hope of remission of sin cleary shows deification of the black stone.
There's absolutely no way u can go around this.
Deification means to see something of some supreme worth or treating something with such extreme admiration and respect that they seem like a deity.
That's what u Muslims do to the black stone. During pilgrimage, Muslims practically fight themselves just to touch or kiss it.
The whole point is God said do not erect a sacred stone in my name. Simple. It doesn't matter what u do with it.

honesttalk21:
Now sacred means deified or treated as holy. They can't all be the rule. If worship doesn't matter, deification can't be the test, and if deification is the test, you must show Muslims deify the Black Stone.

Yes u do otherwise people would not be stepping on THEMSLEVES just to kiss it.
And let's not forget people beleive kissing the black stone forgives sin. And it will testify against those that kissed it insincerely on judgement Day.
Like I can't get my head round this, this black stone is of no importance but it has the power to mediate for remission of sin, it can stone for people's sin because that was how it became black in the first place.
I don't know in your religion. But only God has the power to forgive sin. So anything that can act as a medium for atonement is definitely not ordinary.

honesttalk21:
They don't. Umar said it can neither benefit nor harm, and kissed it because he saw the Prophet pbuh do so (Sahih al-Bukhari 1597). The reports about touching it, its colour, and its testifying on Judgment Day give it a religious role, and a thing can have a religious role without being a god.

Exactly u are coming out small small. Finally u admit the black stone has a religious role. Nobody said it's God, I never said that.
A stone having a religious role signifies spiritual importance and that is akin to what the Israelites did with Moses bronze snake.
Now God is saying I dont want u to set up a sacred stone for any religious role in my name. He hates it.
Now a stone has been set up with the purpose of forgiving sins and u expect that doesn't contradict Deuteronomy 16.22? As I said earlier, we all know what we are doing.

honesttalk21:
You say Muhammad pbuh told people to bow before a stone. Then show where he instructed Muslims to prostrate to the Black Stone rather than to Allah. The Qur'an says to turn toward al-Masjid al-Haram (2:144). It doesn't say to worship the Stone.

Muhammed told u guys to prostate to a house that has a sacred stone. What u doing is rationalisation. Something Saul did but was still punished.

honesttalk21:
You ask where those stones are called sacred. Sacred is the NIV's word. The Hebrew in Deuteronomy 16:22 is matstsebah, pillar, the same word used for Jacob's pillar at Bethel (Gen 28:18) and for Isaiah's pillar to the LORD in Egypt (Isa 19:19), which Isaiah calls a sign and witness to the LORD (19:20). Absalom's pillar (2 Sam 18:18) comes from the same root, so the word alone doesn't make a pillar forbidden. What in Deuteronomy 16:22 does?

I don't speak Hebrew and not interested in linguistic argument. God simply reminded Jacob what he did in bethel in Genesis 31.
When God told him to return to bethel, no reference was made of the previous stone. It's done and gone. If it was a sacred stone, God will send him back to the stone.
God clearly showed that was sacred is the place itself because he encountered God. The sacredness of bethel has nothing to do with the stone.
Other examples are completely irrelevant. I already explained near East people in ancient times use pillars as evidence of agreement. Joshua erected and possible wrote down the agreement on the stone. That's evidence not anything sacred.

honesttalk21:
You say Jacob's pillar was never mentioned again. God Himself mentioned it, saying I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed a pillar (Gen 31:13). Genesis 35:14 has Jacob setting up another pillar and pouring a drink offering and oil on it, so Genesis 35:1 telling him to build an altar doesn't cancel it. I grant that the Sinai pillars stood for the tribes and that nobody worshipped them. And if the Stone speaking on Judgment Day proves deification, Joshua 24:27 says his stone heard all the LORD's words and will witness against Israel, and nobody calls it a god.

Can u show me anywhere in the bible Joshua stone became personified in anyway Of course u can't because it's simply a relational language. It expresses deep meaning of words in emotional terms. Your own stone talking and personified is literal. It would practically take up an active role on judgement Day.

honesttalk21:
Your Canaanite comparison has the same missing step. Their stones belonged to a system of gods, Asherah among them. Muslims don't identify the Stone as a deity, pray to it, or give it independent power, and one shared physical act doesn't make two theologies the same.

No u wrong, pls study cannanites pantheon. They don't worship stones. They set up this stones as a means to be venerate Asherah.
Canaanite religion included standing stones/pillars. These could mark a sacred place or represent the presence or cultic significance of a deity.
Archaeology has found numerous standing stones at Canaanite/Levantine cult sites. They could function as cult symbols or sacred objects, rather than necessarily being thought of as the deity itself.

In the wider ancient Near East, a deity could be represented by a cultic stone or pillar. The stone could therefore receive ritual attention—offerings, libations, anointing, etc.—because of its association with the deity.
Same thing u do to the black stone when u kiss it or touch it. Some Muslims even anoint the black stone with oil for whatever reason.

honesttalk21:
You say the ban is binding. Then show why a command to Israel binds every later prophet in the same form.

Torah law is divided into 3. Ceremonial laws, civic laws and moral laws. The moral laws are forever binding because they are from God. They are laws that revolve round obedience to God.

honesttalk21:
Christians distinguish Mosaic commands that still bind from ones whose application changed, so who decides which this is, and where does Scripture say so?

Christianity did away with the civic laws and change the ceremonial laws. The moral laws is still binding. What God hates during the time of Moses, he will still hate during the time of Muhammed.

honesttalk21:
Deuteronomy 13 tests whether a prophet leads people to other gods, and Muhammad taught worship of Allah alone.

Yeah Joseph Smith also taught to worship only God only, Mormons don't beleive in Trinity. Zoroastrianism also teach monotheism- worship of only one God.
In fact, Zoroastrianism had existed as a religion for over a thousand years before Abraham came on stage.
Muhammed preaching one God means nothing, the question is which God is he preaching.
If a God tells people never to bow before a stone and Muhammed said it's ok to bow before a stone. Then that raises serious doubt. U have not erased that doubt here.

honesttalk21:
Facing the Kaaba doesn't prove worshipping the Stone. Kissing it doesn't prove deifying it. And Deuteronomy 16:22 binding Israel doesn't prove it binds every later prophet.

Yes it does, because if God is impassion. If he hates something, he is not going to change his mind and then love it.

honesttalk21:
Each needs its own proof, so answer this: where does the Bible establish that the Black Stone is the specific kind of pillar Deuteronomy 16:22 bans, and where does it establish that this command binds Muhammad and Muslims in the same form?

Black stone is a sacred stone that God banned. Deuteronomy 16.22 is a moral law. It's forever binding. So not set up sacred stone in my name because I hate it.
Now let me show u example of a sacred pillar in the bible because all u doing is picking up stones and forcing it to mean sacred when they are clearly not.

There was a time Israelites started honoring Moses bronze snake image. They set it up in the temple and offered offerings to it. Now that's sacred, they didn't worship it anyway but they venerated it.
During the reform of Hezekiah, he smashed it to pieces.

2 kings 18.4
Hezekiah removed the high places and broke the pillars and cut down the Asherah. And he broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the people of Israel had made offerings to it (it was called Nehushtan).

Now this is what we mean by sacred and what Israelites did to the bronze serpent is very similar to what Muslims do with the black stone.
U can deny it but evidence is too glaring.

WorldRichest:
.
Are you okay at all? Foreign movie ko, local movie ni. Why you no go marry IndecentStar nah, and say she wear something for pusssy, so no be her pusssy dem dey Bleep anyhow

Sometimes barrier are worn in kissing or smooching movies. They could also use double.
Some don't even kiss the lips but the cheek, camera angle will do the work and make it look real. .
Then there's acting kissing which is not meant to be intimate and there should be no saliva contact.
A Nigerian actress once complained Nigerian actors violate the rules of kissing on set by wanting deep intimate saliva swallowing kissing.

However, most actress are very comfortable with direct kissing on stage so long as it's not intimate kissing. And most of them marry partners that are opened minded like them.
Though I also notice some stop taking such intimate roles once they are married.
To each is own