₦airaland Forum

Beeron:
I turned Atheist at 200 level back in the University, and that transition totally unlocked the logical being in me. Before the University I had silent questions about a supposed God or gods but at the University, Philosophy just blew my curiosity wide open leading to more and more curiousity to study/research more and more and till this day; I can tell you for a fact that, if you begin to read or study about the mystery of the world, people and the Universe from age 1 to age 100, you still will not fully get educated and know all — which is why Socrates (The most educated and wisest man that ever lived), said, "I know nothing." That said, let's get back to the question.



Morality is innate — you do NOT need religion to be moral or uphold morality, without morality, there will not be a safe society and even with morality and rampant rise of churches, society still need laws and law enforcement to punish violators of the laws in order to have a safe society. But then again;

If you as a human needs religion to be moral, you are a pathetic and terrible person from the start; why? Because no one ever told you, not to kill your mother, somehow, you knew it that it's wrong to kill your mother. That is morality in play.



That's my final answer but If you would stick around for some more knowledge.

Do you know that if you as a Christian use the Bible as your moral compass and follow everything the Bible says, you will be in jail today? The Bible is full of contradictions like:


1
Thou shalt not kill. —Exodus 20:13

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Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side. and slay every man his brother…companion…neighbor. —Exodus 32:27




2

The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. —Revelation 8:7

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And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. —Revelation 9:4


3

Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord. —Proverbs 12:22

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The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. —I Kings 22:23



4

For I am the Lord; I change not. —Malachi 3:6

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And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. —Exodus 32:14



5

For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. —Exodus 20:5

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The Lord is good to all. —Psalms 145:9



6

For every man shall bear his own burden. —Galatians 6:2

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Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. —Galatians 6:2



7

Submit yourself to every ordinance of man…to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors. —I Peter 2:13

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We ought to obey God rather than men. —Acts 5:29


8

Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. —Genesis 9:3

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It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall. —Romans 14:21


9

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. —Proverbs 26:4

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Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. —Proverbs 26:5



10

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. —Matthew 10:34

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These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. —John 16:33

All this long essay and u couldn't even make an attempt to answer my question.
Mr Man leave the bible alone, u don't believe in it.

All I'm asking is whats the source of your morality?

If I open a red light district in your community and start recruiting your grown up daughters as workers. Am I being immoral?

If the community decide to chase me out of their town because I'm corrupting their daughters. Will u agree with them even though I have forced none of them to work with me and none of them complained of abuse.

so I'm what way am I corrupting the society with my business. What is the source of that morality that makes u conclude that red light district business is wrong.

I want to know the source of that morality.

Urgent1Million:
There's a huge difference between morality and theism aka religion.
One doesn't need to believe in a god to know what is right and what is wrong.
Religion calls the wrong sin.
The law calls it a crime.
Both theist and atheists are subject to the law of the land so they know the rights from the wrongs.
Morality is rooted in empathy and rational standards. That is not necessarily religion.
If a feel pain when my property is taken away, I will not take other people's properties and will discourage others from taking people's properties.
I don't need any religion to know that.
It's just humanity.

Homosexuality is a crime in Nigeria but legal in UK. So how do u know who's right and who is wrong.
Abortion is a crime in Nigeria and legal in UK. So would u prevent your 16 yr old daughter from having abortion in Nigeria but allow it in UK.

Your decision is based on what morality. Or it's like anything goes.
What is the source of your morality. Answer or don't quote me back.

uchennamani:
Morality doesn’t require belief in your God or any god to exist. Atheists base their morality in reason, empathy, and shared human experience. If God is the reason for your morality, you are a very, very bad person.

When atheists rejects lying or violence to humans or other vices, it is not because Bible or Quran or any religion says so, it is because such acts erode trusts, harm people and damage communities.

So if atheists tell u it's ok to change the sex of a boy to girls by giving them puberty blocker at 6 yrs old.
Is that moral? If it's wrong , what is the source of your morality?

That's my question, answer it and stop deflecting. I want to know the source of your own mority of u disagree with atheist on above.

sulaak:
You don't need religion or another man to be moral. Respect for your fellow man and his property is enshrined in all cultures. I still find it hard to understand how Nigeria is one of the most religious countries in the world, yet one of the most corrupt societies.

I can respect my fellow man and his property and decide I want to shooting porn movies and selling it to society. Those who want to buy will show interest I'm not forcing anybody.
Am I moral or immoral. What is the basis of your judgement and where is the source of your morality.

Pls answer my question or don't quote me back.

geoworldedu:
I am not an atheist, neither am I religious. But I don't think a god is needed to be moral. Whatever rules and laws are made for a country, that's enough to build up your morality. For example, in Nigeria, lesbianism and gay is not allowed. If it is written in the constitution then it is enough.

So if u relocate to a country where gay and lesbianism is legal them it's ok to be lesbian and gay?

So if u raise your daughter in Nigeria, she can't be lesbian but if u raise your son in UK , then it's ok for him to be gay.

It's like some of u atheist don't think things thru before saying it.

Ibehchizzy:
Just love people enough

It's like u guys don't understand my question.

Who told u need love to be moral. Who told u commercial sex workers don't love their neighbors or their society. Who told u onlyfans models have hate in their heart.

But the question is do u consider what they do immoral. If yes, then why is it immoral and what is the source of your morality.

That's my question, pls answer and stop deflecting to questions I never asked u.

allthingsgood:
Which one is source of morality Every human being is born with a sense of what's right and wrong. Simple: treat others how you want to be treated.

The most wicked people in the world are the religious folks. Religion gives control over people to the few, who then manipulate it for extreme wickedness.

Your 14 year old son watching porn is not harming anyone. Your daughter having sex with her boyfriend at 16 is not hurting anybody if anything she's making someone very happy.

So is it immoral for your 14 year son to watch porn, would u allow your daughter have sex with her boyfriend at 16. If your answer is no. Then I need to know why u consider it immoral. And what is the source of your morality.

That is my question. Stop answering questions I never asked u.

uchennamani:
Morality doesn’t require belief in your God or any god to exist. Atheists base their morality in reason, empathy, and shared human experience. If God is the reason for your morality, you are a very, very bad person.

When atheists rejects lying or violence to humans or other vices, it is not because Bible or Quran or any religion says so, it is because such acts erode trusts, harm people and damage communities.

Guy u don't need any morality to know violence is bad for society. It's just common sense. Even animals that has no sense of morality shun unnecessary violence and avoid danger.

Even notorious neighborhood still has law and order because they know nobody thrives in a dysfunctional society.

We are talking about what doesn't harm society or your fellow man but u consider immoral.

Now go back and answer my questions otherwise I will repeat it here.

If your 18 year old daughter tells u she wants to go into adult film actress. Would u approve or go against her decision.
If u consider her decision bad and immoral. How did know it's immoral. Lots of atheist don't consider adult film actress as immoral being and that's why their work not considered a crime in secular society.
So if u consider corn actress immoral, what is the source of your morality.

That's my question, pls answer and stop deflecting to answers I never asked u.

musicwriter:
If the reason you do good is because of a God, then you're already out of the business of God.

You don't need a God to know good or bad, right or wrong. It's actually we humans that set the context for them, not a God.

The only reason you should do good is because it's the right thing to do.

Ok no problem. If u telling me you can derive my morality outside of God then tell me is it right eat animals as food. Did animals tell u it's ok to eat them as food. Why is it moral to consume animals as food when they never gave us such permission. And why do some people called vegetarians consider it immoral to do so.

yemmit90:
My

Evil is a manifestation of ignorance, majority of Atheists are very brilliant, infact you can never become an atheist withiout being brilliant. In Nigeria, alot of people and pastors are atheists, but still practicing religion.

A brilliant person with wisdom think twice before they do anything, and that give them leverage to make a wise decisions. Education, society, financial status and our backgrounds actually determine and influence our moral standard in the society.

Edu action and financial status doesn't determine our morality. We have millionaires who are pedophiles and we have PhD holders who believe in imaginary sky daddy.

What shapes our morality is out background and society. And that's what I've been asking here and yet to get an answer.

The morality from our background and society comes from where. What is the source of such morality. How did our society decides what is moral and immoral.

EnemyofGod4:
Leave atheist alone, and focus your imaginary God,

Forget about the morality of Atheist,
All what Atheist want from you is to prove to them the existence of God,

Let me tell you the truth,

There's no ,concretable, reliable ,approvable and acceptable evidence of God existence.

God, Jesus Christ, Angeles,Satan and demons doesn't exist.theres no evidence of their existence.

OP.,free yourself from religious bondage.

U can't be benefitng from something but yet deny it's existence. That's hypocrisy and we will call u out for it.

Tell me, will u be frown at your 16 year daughter if she takes contraceptive pill so she can enjoy free regular sex with her boyfriend.

Will u applaud your 16 year old daughter if she goes to have an abortion to prevent unwanted pregnancy.

Why will u frown, why would u consider her behaviour immoral. Where is such concept coming from.

Answer my question

DeepSight:
There are very few harmless things that can be classed as immoral in my opinion. In fact I can hardly think of one.
For me, being gay is unnatural, not necessarily immoral.

So it's ok for your son to marry a man since it's not immoral?

What about your daughter, if she tells u she wants to become an adult sex worker or build career in onlyfans, will u agree. Or is that one unnatural or immoral.

DeepSight:
Are you saying that if for example you were not exposed to the bible you would believe that murder and theft and fraud are all right?

Things that harm others are easily identified as immoral and society agrees this is bad and should be prevented- murder, theft, cheating etc.

Now I'm talking about things that do not harm others but society still frown on.

If your son decides to be gay, how does that affect u as an atheist. Why will u be against such union, how does it harm u?
If u consider it immoral, then where is such concept coming from.

That's my question

seunmsg:
The humanity in me defines my morality and not anything written in some books published over 6000 years ago. If your morality is defined by religion and the usual threat of hell fire, then you have no morality at all. You should do good because it's the right thing for you to do as a human being and not because of any religious code.

You are not answering my question.

Millions of atheist see nothing wrong in their daughters building a career in onlyfans.
So u agree with them?
If u disagree, why? What makes u think a girl becoming onlyfans is an immoral act?

That's my question. Since millions of atheists' conscience says Yes. Why is your own saying No?

Since atheists reject God and His divine guidance, as well as revelation, I would like them to tell us the source of their morality.

What guides your conscience when it comes to good and evil? Is your moral framework subjective or objective? What is the foundational basis of your morality? How do you determine what is right or wrong? Is your morality dynamic and relative to time, location, and circumstances?

As a believer in the scriptures, my morality comes from the bible. If the Bible says an act is wrong, then it is wrong irrespective of external opinion or societal validation of such an act.

To the atheist, if you think a behaviour is immoral but society considers it good, how do you justify your stance? What makes you think your judgment is better than that of the majority?

How do you even know what is good or bad as a principle? For example, do you think fornication or homosexuality is evil? Do you think transgender identity should be considered moral? Do you think pride and lying are things that should be frowned upon? What even makes suicide or euthanasia wrong?

Atheists, do you think it is okay to indoctrinate your children with your morality, or should they be left alone to discover their own?
If your 16-year-old daughter starts taking contraceptive pills so she can have sex with her boyfriend, would you frown at it? On what grounds would you consider her behaviour immoral?

If your 21-year-old son tells you he is gay and wants to marry his partner, will you wish them marital bliss or attend their wedding if invited? If you object to such a union, where is that morality coming from?

If your 18-year-old son tells you he is transitioning to become a woman and plans to undergo surgery, on what grounds would you tell him he is wrong?

Why would it be wrong if your 25-year-old daughter tells you she does not plan to get married but intends to have children with different men and raise them without a father figure?

I am certain many atheists would struggle with some of these situations. No atheist here on nairaland will attend the wedding of his gay son or celebrate extramarital pregnancy of his daughter.

The truth some atheists conveniently ignore is that all moral frameworks in society have historically been influenced by religious traditions. People draw from these values in how they live their lives, build families, and relate to their communities.

Yet, some reject the existence of God while still engaging with moral ideas that have been shaped by religious thought.

This is something I reflected on years ago, and it led me to question whether atheism provides a sufficiently grounded explanation for morality or its simply delusion in disguise.

I would appreciate if atheist can give a convincing rebuttal as to the source of their morality independent of an imaginary sky daddy as they say.

Omoawoke:
You think self driving car is a thing of the future? Lol… I’ve have been using Waymo self driving car since 2024… no driver, just order the ride like uber and it comes to nick you up and drop you in your location

You think if drones can work, then they can’t replace pilots?

Ai robots can diagnose a patient and administer medications and even perform better surgical procedures

Ai can replace therapists and counselors as fast as light

See there’s nothing human cannot do that Ai cannot do except procreation, live , eat and die

No AI anywhere is diagnosing patient or administers medications. make una dey lie small small.
AI that hallucinates a lot, na him them go tell to administer or diagnose. AI in medicine is strictly under supervision and the end user is still responsible for any decision made by AI.

Layi4real:
The answer is Capital NO. He is never devine he is just a honoured prophet and messenger of Allah. Shikena

But the bible say he's divine. So who should we believe U or the bible.

Layi4real:
Don't put me into trouble ooo. I'm going by Ur bliv not mine oo. My blive about jesus remain that he is a prophet of God.
It's you Christians that always talk about his divinity and any human that is devine, by English meaning they can be said to be a deity and deity is synonymous to god. note it's a small "g" not God. God is the Allah I believe in and the Jesus father he usually call and pray to as well as the one the previous prophet had been calling. the creator of heaven Nd earth. gods are like Ogun sango Nd those Roman Nd greek gods. any supernatural human being are gods by definition so far u have flesh Nd u are born or created

So is Jesus a supernatural human being?

Layi4real:
there is difference between god and God. the divinity is synonymous to god not God. Trinity doesn't make sense and will never. God is God and Jesus is Jesus they are two different entity....... Jesus in Islam is a prophet a revered one that we hold on high esteem that is why there is no place they mentioned his name that we won't say may peace be upon him. but he is never God because he is human Nd born just like us from a woman womb. it doesn't make sense. if you can believe someone like Jesus is God because of his divinity then the Buddhist too are right to say Buddha is God because he is devine too so as many others will. God is one without associate. And that is how it has been before all the prophet before Jesus untill Jesus came Nd left Nd people start misinterpreting his messages that why Allah send Muhammad to correct the misunderstanding for who will listen.

Layi is Jesus divine Yes or No

forget God or god. There's no capital letter in hebrew or greek language. elohim is elohim and theos is theos, whether used for God or Jesus or satan.
na english language invented God for true deity and god for false deity.

so is Jesus divine? yes or no

Layi4real:
jesus is just a prophet. not God nor is he a deity Gaskia

Layi if u agree Jesus divinity is synonymous with God, then u agree with TRINITY. So what's all these argument about!!!!!

synonymous mean same thing, can be used interchangeably.

we never said Jesus is the Father, they are different persons.
We can even grant the argument Jesus is not equal to the Father. No problem.

Our argument is Jesus divinity is same as the Father. and u agreed to that, so what's the argument about

Muslims better read the bible and not allow ignorance lead u to hell fire.

Layi4real:
jesus is just a prophet. not God nor is he a deity Gaskia

Guy u said it with your own words that Jesus is a deity, why are u lying now.

Layi4real:
point of correction, jesus been devine is synonymous to been God not God. Jesus is a deity not God.
The fact that you have been insulting jesus 700 yes b4 Muhammad came to correct it doesn't make it right. Muhammad came to right all wrong. wether u believe in him is left to u. Ur bible is so contradicting. This same jesus is called son of God, God, holy spirit, father, prophet, son of man, Lord Nd more.

U can bliv Jesus to be God for all I care but according to our holy book jesus is a man and will never be equal to God. because there is nothing that is special in him compare to other prophets that came b4 and after him. every miracle that he does other prophet have done it. like healings Nd raising the dead, walking on water, multiplication of food etc. His resurrection is even inferior to Elijah that didn't die atall. it's safer to call Elijah God than jesus because he's been living forever without been dead unlike jesus that have taste death

honesttalk do u agree with your fellow muslim here that Jesus is a deity. He seems to agree with us christians that Jesus is divine but not God.

Layi if u agree Jesus divinity is synonymous with God, then u agree with TRINITY. So what's all these argument about!!!!!

synonymous mean same thing, can be used interchangeably.

we never said Jesus is the Father, they are different persons. Our argument is Jesus divinity is same as the Father. and u agreed to that, so what's the argument about

Muslims better read the bible and not allow ignorance lead u to hell fire.

Layi4real:
yeah our prophets should not be insulted including jesus. The highest insult u can throw at jesus is calling him God.

Make I no go too fah using Google to check the meaning of Deity. u called jesus a Devine being by definition U people are calling him Deity. because any human that is devine is known to be deity just like Ur own Jesus Nd Buddha

ok good. u can see from the dictionary u brought yourself that deity is synonymous with divine and god.
So when we say Jesus is divine, we are saying he's God and a deity. Deity means God.

u must be joking to say calling Jesus God is insult. we have been calling Jesus God for over 700 years b4 your prophet came with his hallucinations and forgery book.

My bible clearly tells me Jesus is God.

Titus 2.13
while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

philipians 2.6
In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature of God,

John 20
Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

Until u guys are ready to follow below, let's call it a day

6.108
˹O believers!˺ Do not insult what they invoke besides Allah or they will insult Allah spitefully out of ignorance. This is how We have made each people’s deeds appealing to them.

Layi4real:
Neither is not in Ur position to tell us what to respect and what not to respect. Jesus is neva practice Christianity. he never worship himself instead he worship the one true God Allah.

Jesus is a great man that u people as to revered him as a deity not God. A devine being by definition is called Deity and not God. he is just like Buddha. They are not God and will never be.

get a dictionary and discover the definition of deity and divine. don't infect us here with your ignorance here.

u guys are the ones that has problem with blasphemy. we chrsitians dont give ourself headache about such inconsequential stuffs.

To us, if u blaspheme Jesus or God, its btw u and HIM. You will answer for your deeds on judgement day. You guys are the ones who wants to set the world on fire because someone insults your prophet. Muslims are the ones shouting at the top of their voice that their prophet should not be insulted. But has no problem insulting figures in other religion.
unfortunately, that wont work. u insult my religion, ur religion get insulted. Even your Quran warned you not to insult other people's religion otherwise they insult yours.

6.108
˹O believers!˺ Do not insult what they invoke besides Allah or they will insult Allah spitefully out of ignorance. This is how We have made each people’s deeds appealing to them.

above or we eventually set the world on fire.

Layi4real:
The same bible of urs claim Jesus is a prophet and jesus himself said he is a prophet so Muslims did not deny jesus. we believe in him as a prophet which he called himself.

Then let's leave it then. The day u Muslims are ready to respect Jesus Christ the way Christians want him to be respected, then u will get your own respect u demand for.
Jesus is divine and was never a Muslim.
Jesus is not Isa
Jesus is the Messiah which mean saviour of the world
He was never a Muslim.
Jesus is the Son of God.

when u guys are ready to accept this term and condition, then I can assure, I will lead the crusade to discipline christians who mock your prophet or deity.

Muslims should not be the one telling others what to respect and not to respect.

YesDaddyTill203:
No religion is based on more lies than Christianity, from false birth to false resurrection.

More people have been killed in the name of Christianity than all other religions combined.
Kid, go and read the true history of the religion you're following blindly. You are just a kid who has been programmed by one GO with recent religious news. Goa and educate yourself on the true history of your religion, then come back for more education.

Neither u nor I was born in those so called history u want us to read.
So let's talk about now that we live and can see. Someone here on nairaland clearly said he would always support the killing of whoever blaspheme your prophet because it's the right thing to do.

Above is the thinking of an average Muslim in the 21st century.

Laple0541:
Many of you people run to UAE, Saudi, Qatar and other countries that use Sharia with little or no problem and that justifies my assertion if you can read what I wrote.

The rate of development in those countries even surpass that of many other countries in the so called West! Sharia is not a problem but politicizing it as we always do in Nigeria which is not restricted to only Sharia is the major problem!

People are running to Dubai and Qatar because the govt of those countries now do selective shari'ah.

Go to Dubai, it's no different from Miami. Drinking, parties, drugs, prostitution, indecent dressing, escort. The only immorality yet to enter Dubai is gambling.
In fact, people now say u are likely to be a better Muslim in London or Birmingham than in Dubai.

We don't need shari'ah to have good policy. West at its developmental peak never implemented shari'ah. If anything they were fiercely Christian.

China, Singapore, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan are technology giant. They have no shari'ah and china even banned any Islamic practice.

I repeat, u don't need shari'ah to develop. U need people with sound cognitive function and shari'ah doesn't guarantee that.

That's why all countries that implemented shari'ah in africa- northern Nigeria, Mauritania, Djibouti are no better than those who didn't implement it.

YesDaddyTill203:
Who the hell are US lawmakers to tell other countries what laws to practice in their country?
The crazy part is that the same lawmakers who are pushing this sort of crap are the same set that are believ all Americans should be forced to practice their extreme Christian beliefs, such as denying women abortion and other rubbish.

The hypocrisy is annoying.

So u support killing babies ?

ProudlyLagos:
I take exception to your last paragraph……..the saro are mostly of Egba and ijebu origin from Ogun state who traced their root back to Nigeria and early settlers in Lagos and they are one of the major early settlers apart from the awori that developed Lagos island…..the building were built most of Brazilian patterns which most of them still exist today on Lagos island and also with family compound which is traditionally called agbole in Yorubaland and they still exist today and it’s called the Brazilian quarters, which I proudly belong so pls don’t rewrite our history…….as a saro, i never supported GRV because he does not represent my interest as a Lagosian and that doesn’t change the fact that we all have linage traced back to Nigeria and one of the earlier settlers of Lagos and I’m proudly Yoruba from Lagos of the Egba clan.

Well then we should ask GRV why he always refer to himself as a Lagosian and never Yoruba.
We all know the Saros were descendants of Yoruba slaves but we should ask GRV why he thinks that's not the case.

Sheuns:
But they do against children of their sons?

Gbadebo is termed an outsider even when his father and father’s lineage are known to be real Lagosians, but Hamzat that his father is a monarch in Ogun state is welcome.

Hypocrisy na him go kpai many of una Batists.

Let me tell u the bitter truth, GRV doesn't consider himself Yoruba. He detest the Yoruba tribe and didn't even pretend to hide it. He openly mocked Yoruba people of social media calling them slur words.
He said he doesn't speak Yoruba because he doesnt think in Yoruba.

GRV consider himself a Lagosian with Saro root. These are descendants of returnee slaves who settled in Lagos in the late 19th century and early 20th century. He believes he has no link to the Yoruba race and shouldn't be bothered about it.
That's the simple truth.