₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
Bro do you realise you just admitted to relative morality?

Something that's in the bible !!!!!

Polygamy is permitted and marriage bed undefiled are both derived from the bible.

LordReed:
Ok so it is morally ok to take legal concubines and marry multiple wives?

And what of the verse that says masturbation or self pleasure is a sin, still waiting for that.

polygamy is not a sin according to the bible, anything God permit cannot be a sin though not expedient and not part of the original covenant btw God and man.

hebrew 13.4 makes it clear marriage bed should be undefiled. any sexual act outside the marriage bed is a sin. masturbation is sexual pleasure without a partner- that's outside of the marital bed.
If u want masturbate, invite your partner and do it in his/her presence. note- your partner must willingly agree to it, approve of it and must derive sexual pleasure from the act. anything outside of this a sin/sexual abuse/sexual cohesion.

Neoteny:
You're referring to the Bible as your source of morality, and Christianity is 2,000+ years old, beginning with Paul's writings (Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Jew). The Gospels of the Bible were written approximately 100 years after Jesus. So what came before the Torah and the New Testament? If you're pegging the origin of your belief system to 4,000 years ago then explain morality and justice systems 3,000 years earlier than that and farther, during the Mesopotamian, Babylonian and Sumerian civilisations. Explain the 5,000 years of Persian and Chinese civilisations. Incidentally, Abraham came from ancient Babylon, which is now Iraq.

I already told u ancient civilisation including all the ones u mentioned attributed their morality to a higher power. I already mentioned this, are u deaf or what. They never said our morality came from no where, they wrote down books and attributed their morality to deity they worship.
pls don't appeal to ancient civilisation again, because THEY MADE IT CLEAR THEIR MORALITY CAME FROM A HIGHER POWER.

Neoteny:
Also, there's no such thing as "Judeo-Christian", it's a modern invention by the Zionists to gain the sympathy of evangelicals for the creation of Israel. The foundation of Christianity is the idea of salvation, accepting that Christ died for your sins and is the son of Yahweh. But Jews don't believe Jesus was the Messiah and believe he's in hell. How are you the same, that you conflate the two distinct and conflicting religions into one?

I'm not here to discuss theology, I'm here to discuss values, dont confuse the 2. Most chrsitians dont even understand atonement or concept of original sin but based their lives on christian values. Judeochrsitian simply means beleivers who share common ethics and values coming from the bible. and it was first coined in 1821 by jewish who converted to christianity.
it has nothing to do with your bogus zionism or nation of Israel conspiracy.

Neoteny:
The Old Testament god is a deeply amoral and wrathful god, so how can this be the source of universal moral values? There's more sex and violence and debauchery in the bibles than anything a conscientious atheist has ever written.

U guys can just let it rest. I'm not here to tell u my source of morallity is better than yours. I'm simply here to show u guys that it's impossible for your morality to come from nothing. There's a source for everything. WHAT IS THE SOURCE OF YOUR MORALITY?

Neoteny:
If you're so confused about your religion then you've no ground to stand on to opine about the source of morality.

I think u guys are the ones confused with your Belief system. I am here asking u what's the source of your morality and all u do is attack christianity or is your source of morality anything against xtianity?

Neoteny:
As for your obsession with homosexuality and transgenderism, well... that's a matter of liberalism and not atheism. There are many atheists who don't condone the acts, but it's in overwhelmingly Christian civilisations that such acts are accepted and even made legal, such as in the US, Europe, and Israel itself. In fact, Israel are having gay Pride Day in Jerusalem! But what Muslim country, for instance, legalizes gay marriage, homosexuality and transgenderism? So it's not biblical nor Judaic. It's also not atheism, it's liberalism that enables it.

actually homosexuality and transgenderism has everything to do with atheism because the cultures that rejects it are deeply conservative cultures where the source of morality is attributed to higher power. show me a culture that reject atheism that is not a religious society, just one. I challenge u to name one.

A typical example is china where homosexuality is legal and LGBQT communities thrive in urban areas that are mainly atheist while it's frowned upon in rural areas that still held on to some religious beliefs.
when the west was deeply religious, u will be jailed for being homosexuals, it was even considered a mental disorder until the 1960s. u dare not get pregnant outside of wedlock, u and your family will be ostracized from the society. The community will tell u not to corrupt their kids with your immoral behaviour. This was in the 1950s not some 18th century- There are people who witnessed that era still around with us today.
so dont even put modern west with christianity at all. They have abandoned religion, that's why they see nothing wrong with onlyfans models. so if u are atheist WHY ARE U AGAINST 18 YEAR OLD BEING AN ONLYFANS MODEL?

THE REASON U ARE AGAINST HOMOSEXUALITY IS because U WERE RAISED IN A CONSERVATIVE RELIGIOUS CULTURE. NOTHING MORE. THERE'S NO OTHER REASON TO HATE HOMOSEXUALITY IF U HAVE NO RELIGIOUS INFULENCE IN YOUR MINDSET. KISS THE TRUTH.
FOR CHRIST SAKE WHY WOULD U BE AGAINST HOMOSEXUALITY IF U HAD NO RELIGIOUS MORAL GENE FLOWING IN your blood. EVEN NON RELIGIOUS CONSERVATIVES IN WESTERN COUNTRIES HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH GAY.

WHY SHOULD U HAVE PROBLEM WITH YOUR 18 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER HAVING SEX WITH HER BOYFRIEND IF NOT FOR THE RELIGIOUS MORALITY NEURONS SPARKLING IN YOUR BRAIN. U HAVE BEEN INDOCTRINATED BY RELGIOUS DOGMA TO SEE THOSE THINGS AS WRONG AND THAT'S WHY U CONSIDER THEM WRONG.
GET OVER IT AND KISS THE TRUTH.

Neoteny:
You've also not explained why philosophy exists way before any of the books of the Bible where morality is pondered, which sets the basis for my claim that religion, which came later, borrowed liberally from philosophy and incorporated it.

philosophy didnt exist before religion. philosophy as a separate branch from religion influence started with Socrates around 500BC. even the torah had been written by that time. and FYI- Socrates was rejected by his culture and sentenced to death because he was accused of corrupting the minds of the youth with his philosophy by making them question morality.

SO NO, PHILOSOPHY DIDN'T PRECEDE ANY MORAL LAWS. AND PHILISOPHY ITSELF DIDNT CREATE ANY MORALITY INSTEAD IT QUESTIONED IT.

Neoteny:
As I've also said, the real source of morality is conscience. That's the source whether one is a Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindi, liberal, conservative, or atheist. A healthy conscience makes for a healthy society with or without religion, and conscience is imbued in the Self, or the Freudian Id, not some questionable scriptures the authors of which are unknown. The Bible doesn't get to define what morality is, as it's subjective. While societal consensus can make some definitions for expectations, morality is largely down to personal inhibitions.

so if morality is down to your conscience, will u have a problem with your 18 year old daughter joining onlyfans model. How does it affect your cosncience if your 18 year old daughter becomes onlyfans. That's what I want to understand.
pls answer.

DeepSight:
This is disappointing. Such a sexist / misogynist post is something you should be ashamed of. It betrays a terrible mindset.

@unknownqueen: I am happy to say that I dont know. And I dont believe anyone knows. But I do believe there is something mysterious and beyond our understanding at the root of existence.

And yes, something are evidently timeless.

pls dont bring that political correctness nonsense hre.
she came her insulting people up and down, but u didn't correct her.
I noticed she's female thus better ignored rather than dragging words with her, u came here with your political correctness rhetoric.

yemmit90:
No

Lolz, no one derived a particular moral law from higher power because religion is man made traditions. Humans introduced the concept of God in their own ways and traditions. What you think is moral in one society, might be immoral in another. Natural law exist among the people that shares the same values, cultures, gods, lineages and traditions. In some cases, there were universal laws that binded all humans, the same law exist among animals, which can also be regarded as "instinct".

give me example of a civilisation that based their morality on laws of nature.

pls dont mention ancient civilisation because they based their morlaity on their religious text.

geoworldedu:
I didn't say I will love-vendor daughter into prostitution. You are lying like a Christian oga. I said I will ask my child who wants to be an onlyfan model if she is ready to face the consequences of what her society will dish out to her. If she thinks she can, then she's an adult and it's her choice. So why do you lie a lot.

As for me, I want to be an onlyfan actor. How can I join sef?

Your god who commanded killing of disobedient and drunk son can never be close to me in morality even if I join onlyfan

God Almighty who created Jehovah your god bears me witness that your god is highly immoral

sha dont raise your daughter a prostitute, that's my own.

take a seat, when we discussing the case of God's morality, u can join the discussion

mayor1814:
These are the terrorists in d name of multiculturalism and diversity that weak starmer is condoning and allowing into d UK... Wo starmer and UK will learn d hard way if them mumu multiculturalism and diversity BLA BLA BLA keeps going on

Everybody in uk knows multiculturalism has failed. But the truth is nothing can be done to reverse it anymore. The uk culture as we knew it b4 is gone forever. The country will likely plit into different factions in the future with each one controlling their territory.

The only way to fully reverse it is a civil war.

geoworldedu:
I didn't say I will love-vendor daughter into prostitution. You are lying like a Christian oga. I said I will ask my child who wants to be an onlyfan model if she is ready to face the consequences of what her society will dish out to her. If she thinks she can, then she's an adult and it's her choice. So why do you lie a lot.

As for me, I want to be an onlyfan actor. How can I join sef?

Your god who commanded killing of disobedient and drunk son can never be close to me in morality even if I join onlyfan

God Almighty who created Jehovah your god bears me witness that your god is highly immoral

I don't know what's more immoral than pi.mping your daughter into prostitution and following her into the trade.
This is no longer immorality but mental illness.

God gave u a beautiful daughter to raise and help her become a pride in this world.
Instead u want to turn her into a piece of shameful public amusement while u collect fare from the audience.

geoworldedu:
I have told you betimes that I am not an atheist. You can call me a knower, because I actually believe in the God Almighty who created Jehovah your god. You can find that out from the BOOK OF UNIVERSAL HISTORY revealed to us by OTEM.

Now once again, you want me to tell you the source of my morality, but you haven't answered the question as to whether your God is immoral. Your god actually commanded killing of disobedient and drunk son. You said doing that is not moral, but you haven't answered me concerning the giver of that command, whether he is moral or immoral. I'm still waiting.

if u not an atheist, then I think u should take a back seat. This thread is for those who are outright atheist or doubt existence of God. if u believe in God, then no point being here.

besides, I find it very disturbing u said there's nothing wrong pi.mping your daughter into prostitution. u even said u will join her in the business. daughter is calling customer, father is doing the transaction.
That doesn't look like a healthy family at all.

Pls in the name of whatever u worship, dont raise your daughter with such mindset and pls go and seek help from a therapist.
dont take this advice lightly.

yemmit90:
No

Lolz, no one derived a particular moral law from higher power because religion is man made traditions. Humans introduced the concept of God in their own ways and traditions. What you think is moral in one society, might be immoral in another. Natural law exist among the people that shares the same values, cultures, gods, lineages and traditions. In some cases, there were universal laws that binded all humans, the same law exist among animals, which can also be regarded as "instinct".

pls stop going around in circles and answer my queston.

whether u believe in the gods of a culture or society is irrelevant. That culture is telling u that the source of their morality is from their gods. whether u think its an imaginary sky daddy is completely inconsequential. They derive their morality from religious belief.

Now u tell me, what is the source of your morality if u don't believe in an imaginary sky daddy.

stop appealing to ancient civilisations that dont share the same opinion with u regarding the source of their morality.

yemmit90:
It came from 'Natural law or law of nature', and that is what made us homosapiens. This laws were innate, raw and naturally built with our biological composition.

If I may ask you, where did a family learnt that it is not good to sleep with one another along the blood line? Why do you feel it is not appropriate to sleep with your beautiful sisters or mum?

u have to prove that.

as far as I'm aware, incest is considered immoral in all ancient religious text- mesopatamia, ancient egypt, ancient greece, ancient Rome, ancient akkadian.
marriage btw son and mother or even siblings is seen as a curse and could bring the wrath of the gods on the land.

So yes ancient civilisation derive incest morality from a higher power not some innate nature as u claim. There's clear evidence for this.

anyway we know close family marriage is unhealthy and brings about genetic disease in the offsprings, so I'm not even going to bother about that since incest should be discouraged based on health ground.

LordReed:
Genesis 25
6 But to the sons of his concubines Abraham gave gifts, while he was still living, and he sent them away from his son Isaac, eastward to the east country.

Genesis 16
3 So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian slave Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. 4 He slept with Hagar, and she conceived.

Genesis 25
Abraham had taken another wife, whose name was Keturah.

The bible didn't tell us Abraham had sexual relationship with other women apart from the above women and Sarah.

The word concubines can be used in ancient culture to mean secondary wives with lesser legal status, social ranks and without equal inheritance rights.
Sarah actually have Hagar to Abraham as a wife but also treated her harshly when she challenged her authority in the marriage. This shows social hierarchy within wives.

its common practice those days as seen with Bilhah and Zilpah who became wives of Jacob but never as a valid union, even the kids they bore to Jaocb went to their mistresses- Leah and Rachel.

Genesis 30
4 So she gave him her servant Bilhah as a wife. Jacob slept with her, 5 and she became pregnant and bore him a son. 6 Then Rachel said, “God has vindicated me; he has listened to my plea and given me a son.” Because of this she named him Dan.

9 When Leah saw that she had stopped having children, she took her servant Zilpah and gave her to Jacob as a wife. 10 Leah’s servant Zilpah bore Jacob a son. 11 Then Leah said, “What good fortune!” So she named him Gad.

yemmit90:
E

You are blatantly wrong,education shaped the way people think and approach an issue that would've ordinarily mismanaged out of ignorance. Financial crisis sometimes, can make a loyal person to compromised. Not even a child of God or man of God can withstand this when abject poverty set in. Besides, you don't use a very tiny percentage to establish a fact. How many millionaires do you see or caught sleeping with underage girls? I am sure you will count almost a million befioe you could find one. Besides, being a PhD holder has nothing to with one believe system, let me assume you know that already.

It's like this one hasn't heard of Epstein island where millionaires go to do touchy touchy of little girls.

yemmit90:
To answer your question, there are acceptance social norms in every giving society, under which their moral standard were derived. Therefore, our source of moral is expected to conformed or emanated from these moral standard to be generally acceptable.

A society can decide what is moral or immoral from their fundamental usually practices that governed the establishment of such society. Here is my personal definition of both;

Morality is a social acceptable standard that comform with lay down cultural rules in a giving society.

Immorality is an awkward behavior that is frowned at or socially unacceptable by the cultural value of a giving society.

u guys are just going through a round hole. The so called societal norms morality comes from where. where does the society gets its morality from?
pls answer the question

Offpoint1:
We aren't born Christians, Muslims, or catholics. You were born human
The labels they came later, stamped on you by institutions that profited of SPIRITUAL CAPITALISM.
Before the church taught you to bow, you looked up, not in worship but in wonders.
Before Bible told you what beauty was, you already felt it in the world, the rain, stars, moon, trees.
The world that asked for nothing yet gave you everything.
Before you were taught about sins, you already knew emphaty.
Before they made you fear hell, you already knew already feared hurting someone you love.
That is the truth no doctrine can rewrite.
Morality existed before mythology, we build God to explain ourselves and then forget we are the explanation.
We trade laws for authority, curiosity for commandments and freedom for faith.

Your moral compass is factory installed, if you need men written books as morality guidelines, then you've lost connection with your creator.


Besides, I'm no atheist, I don't just buy into religious Gods, those are men creation.

actually morality is instilled. children dont have any morality, they are very selfish and believe in the principle of self preservation. They will cry and throw tantrums if they dont get what they want NOW.
As they grow and learn, they become to understand the importance of value and societal expectation.

and the need to validate morality is what brought about myths and legend. People needed to explain why certain morality is non-negotiable so they connect it with a supernatural story.

and all morality known to man came from a belief system or a spirtual knowledge. whether ancient or modern civilisation.
even the modern atheist civilisation in the west came from liberal secularism.
morality never came from nothing, that's what u atheist from conservative background fail to understand.

Neoteny:
I'm not an atheist, but I'm a cautious observer of religion due to its inherent flaws. You're a Christian, I surmise, meaning your belief system, and consequently your source of morality, came into existence some 2,000 years ago. Juxtapose this with the fact that society and culture and philosophy have existed for at least 7,000 years before the Abrahamic religions and your arguments start unravelling. Before the Bible, how did ancient civilisations solve moral quandaries?

Morality stems from an inherent and innate part of conscience and consciousness, detached from any cosmic inferences. Philosophy deals with existential questions and justice. Does justice and fairness require the Bible to strike balance? No. Even animals have a certain semblance of morality; dogs tend to be faithful and obedient to their owners, and i can guarantee no canine is versed in scripture.

So how do we also confront the issue of a vengeful, wrathful, jealous, transactional, and seemingly unhinged religious deity who ordered the outright massacre of people he didn't like such as the Amaleks, down to infants and animals? What about the concept of burning people in hell who are born and raised in a different belief system or who don't obey this vengeful god? Why does this deity allow pestilence, death, hunger, floods, wars, and other calamities befall the so-called innocent and guilty?

If your god has a moral compass, he'll love everyone equally, never create the devil, and make life on earth a paradise.



What is good and evil? If killing someone for no reason is evil, why does your god do it daily with seeming indifference? If afflicting someone with disease and suffering is evil, why did he create a world full of everything poisoning and harming his creations indiscriminately?

Before the Bible 2,000 years ago, how come other civilisations florished and thrived with justice systems? Obviously they had moral templates stemming from somewhere: But where? philosophy? Conscience? Definitely not the Bible, and if you say they had religion back then, well what they worshipped are considered idols after the Bible was written.




Do you believe in human sacrifice? Society says it's wrong and you'll go to jail it you do it. But in Judges 11:30-31 the tale of Jephthah, who led the Israelites against the Ammonoites, ended up with Jephthah burning his daughter as a ritual sacrifice in return for god granting him victory. That sounds not just immoral, but deeply disturbing and haunting.

Incest is something outlawed by society but god blessed Abraham for marrying his sister in Genesis 20:11-12. Would you marry your sister? Would you disobey the laws of Nigeria where incest is illegal and marry your sister?



Reverse is also applicable, especially in the example of incest i gave above. Same thing with slavery which is endorsed in the Old and New Testament. Would you own slaves in obedience despite society outlawing it? How do you justify this act of cruelty towards fellow humans? What's your moral high ground for owning slaves?



Fornication is sex between an unmarried couple, right? So how come prominent figures had concubines, such as Abraham (Hagar, Keturah), Jacob (Bilhah, Zilpah), Gideon, David, and Solomon? Is this not outright fornication?

Homosexuality and transgenderism are considered psychological anomalies because clearly nature has only two distinct genders, thus why some people have an aversion to it. Many civilisations thrived in such acts without any divine wrath visited upon them. Even at that, it's still something that is simply unnatural and thus such a taboo, not necessarily because of religion. Have you ever seen a gay dog, or a lesbian chimp? It's unnatural.



You're a Christian only because you were born into a Christian home. You'd no say in the matter. Thus, your parents indoctrinated you into the ways in which they too were likely raised. Should your parents have indoctrinated you too, or should they've allowed you alone to discover your direction on your own?



Society frowns at it, as does culture, as does natural parental instinct of protecting their own. Marriage is largely a socio-cultural construct because a Christian does not typically regard a married Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu couple as fornicators. Once society witnessed or accepts they're married, it's not fornication. No one needs biblical validation for married couples from other cultures.



Because same-sex attraction is completely unnatural. In all floral and faunal kingdoms, opposites attract. Same-sex attraction goes against this natural order and thus repulses most societies, and therefore it's considered taboo. You don't need the bible to tell you something is bizarre or unnatural. Like I said, show me the gay dog and I'll agree nature is fine with homosexuality and ascribe the universal repulsion to religious injunctions.



See previous response. You can't change lead into gold anymore than you can change one gender to another. It's unnatural.



This is a repetition of the same 16 year old girl scenario. Same response. By the way, why does the Bible demand marriage of only humans? Why do other higher mammals like chimps and dogs get to have sex with any random female without this bother of fornication vs marriage thing? Could it be possible mankind just invented this societal construct as a means of owning their chosen mate without fighting off other males purely from primal jealousy?

So how do we explain the biblical god who came upon Mary and impregnated her without marrying her? This is even adultery, not just fornication, because she was a married woman!




Wrong. Ancient philosophy way before the Bible handled matters of morality, existentialism, nihilism, and ancient societies used some of these philosophical underpinnings to create social prescriptions for behavior and cultural expectations, which became tradition. One can even argue that the holy books infused these preexisting moral templates into their narratives with some added dose of dogmatic interpretation and interpolation.



Some of the most evil people in history are believers, while some of the kindest and harmless are atheists. Religion has been far more responsible for endless suffering and violence than atheism, agnosticism, and heresy. Europe has fought religious wars spanning centuries over religion, and even today we're seeing hatred, distrust, violence, and suffering because of religion, not in spite of it.



Morality can and does exist on a separate plane from dogma, because it's an inherent part of conscience, consciousness, philosophical thoughts, and influence of environment, which coalesce into culture and tradition and ultimately justice and belief systems. You've no proof that the religion predates morality, while there's circumstancial evidence that religion actually borrowed from philosophical thoughts and practices to codify its laws.




I'm neither an atheist nor a zealot; I straddle the fence simply because my curiosity and natural skepticism preclude illogical dogma and contradictions. However, I can confidently say that while no one can convincingly disprove the existence of a Sky Daddy, no one can convincingly prove it either. And inbetween this problem lies the domain of the rational thinker.

so first u need to understand my thread is not about the source of my morality is better than yours. I am not here to sell the biblical God as a better source of morality. Thus the condemnation of the biblical God is highly inconsequential to the debate.

u said Abrahamic religion emerged 2000 yrs ago- its actually 4000 yrs ago. That means other civilisation had their morality from another source
That exactly is my point, every civilisation has a morality sourced from their belief system linked to a religious spirituality. Be it ancient egyptian, mesopotamia, akkadian empire or shang, these civilisation has their morality sourced from a spirituality. So appealing to them wont help your case. They beleive in a higher power who gives guidance and morality.

The question remain athest dont believe in any god at all. be it biblical or not. So what is the source of their morality.

U argued my questions can be answered by the expectation of the society u live. which society? last time I checked most atheist society is perfectly ok with homosexuality or 16 yrs old girl having sex. The society that frowns at such are actually the conservative religious ones and we know where that source of morality comes from.
secular/liberal/atheist society dont care if their adult daughter choose to become onlyfans model neither do they care if their 19 year old son wants to change his gender. They will even support such change. Why is such morality from an atheist culture repulsive to u?
That's the question u guys do not want to answer.

Telling me your morality is influenced by a religious society shows atheists benefit from sound morality coming from a higher power, something they dont want to accept.
and that's the point of my topic- modern atheism morality is actually influenced by judeochristian values esp atheist born in conservative culture. They can deny it but the inability for u guys to convincingly show the source of your morality is clear evidence u dont have one. U live off the morality other spiritual cultures worked hard to build.

LordReed:
Bro you didn't answer either question. Is Abraham a sinner for having multiple partners who weren't his wife and where is it written in the Bible that masturbation or self pleasuring is a sin.

Meanwhile I already answered your question on the source of morality. Look through your mentions.

Abraham didn't sleep with a woman who is not his wife. Both Hagar and Kenturah were called his wife in the bible.

Scientheosopher:
"As a believer in the scriptures, my morality comes from the bible. If the Bible says an act is wrong, then it is wrong irrespective of external opinion or societal validation of such an act.

To the atheist, if you think a behaviour is immoral but society considers it good, how do you justify your stance? What makes you think your judgment is better than that of the majority?"

Consequences. You look at the effects, especially long term, that it would have.

Every human action has long term effect even those we consider morals.
Celibacy had long term effect, being too meek or gentle has long term effect.
Is AI Moral? People are worried it will lead to massive loss of jobs but we still pushing for it.

I don't see any long term effect for premarital sex, most people do it and get away with it.
Even teenage pregnancy has no longer term effect in a well supported system.

Looking at long term effect of an action cannot be the source of morality.

geoworldedu:
Is your God immoral or not? If your give the right answer without being evasive or beating about the bush, then I will easily answer you.

Lord Reed u see what I'm talking about.

Atheist will never any question but turn every argument into God of the bible.

Every belief system derive their source of morality from a source.
The only exception is atheism whose source of morality is unknown.

This guy came here and said he has no problem pushing just one of his daughter into prostitution but he objected pushing all his daughters into the business.

I then asked him what is the source of that decision. What is the foundational principle that makes u think it's MORAL FOR YOU AS A FATHER TO love-vendor JUST ONE DAUGHTER INTO PROSTITUTION BUT NOT ALL YOUR DAUGHTERS.

WHERE DID U GET THAT MORALS.

now he has refused to answer, instead he wants to know if the source of my morality is the good or not.

I AM NOT HERE TO DEBATE IF MY OWN SOURCE OF MORALITY IS BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE.

ALL I WANT TO KNOW IS SINCE ATHEIST REJECT ALL BELIEF SYSTEM, THEN WHAT IS THE SOURCE OF ATHEISM MORALITY.

I HAVE TOLD U THE SOURCE OF MY MORALITY, Tell ME YOURS. EXCEPT U TELLING ME THE REASON U BECOME ATHEIST IS because U HATE CHRISTIANITY.

then u are not an atheist but a Christian hater and this topic is not for u.

geoworldedu:
You have to answer whether your God is immoral or not first. Because for you to accept that killing your son for being disobedient and drunk is immoral and your god commanded it, it means your God is highly immoral. But I want to hear you say it out like 'My God is Immoral'.

Omorr, it will be funny to see you state this obvious truth o. But the truth is always the truth and bitter to say.

Now say after me 'God Is Immoral.'

If you can say this, then your flimsy question will be answered immediately

Atheist are the most confused bunch I ever see. They make it seem as if the only God that exist is the one spoken about in the bible.

Guy my thread is about all gods that people believe in. U guys don't believe in any. Will u stop becoming atheist in Japan, India or Thailand where Abrahamic religion isnnt the main religion.

Traditional worshippers beleive their morality comes from their gods, do u believe in their existence.

I want to know the source of your morality. Whether the source is immoral or not is completely irrelevant.
U don't think the source of my morality is clean. Fine no problem. Case closed.

Now tell me the source of your morality that think it's ok for just one of your daughter to be a prostitute but not all of them.

I want to know the source of that morality.

LordReed:
Bro we are talking about sex. You said it is only your wife you are allowed to have sex with. Abraham had several concubines yet the god didn't say a pip to him, why is that?

Ok I get u now. My response is regarding if masturbation is sexual immorality.
Any sexual behaviour outside of MARRIAGE is sexual immorality. Pleasing yourself is not within the confines of marriage, u are enjoying pleasure without your partner.

Now if your religion allows for more than one wife, sexual pleasure remain within them.

My argument is not even about God of the bible but what is the source of morality for atheist since they deny existence of all gods whether they allow for more than one wife or not.

I want to know the source of u guys morality. Masturbation is a sin in Christianity but do atheist consider it immoral. If the answer is yes, what is the source of that morality.

If masturbation is not wrong for u guys then no point debating it. I intentionally brought up complex cases that u guys will struggle with to determine your source of morality.

That's the point of this thread not whether God of bible is moral or not as some of u has turned it to as usual.
As if u people will stop becoming atheist if u live in India or Japan or Thailand.

geoworldedu:


No!!!! Then this means that Morality is subjective. It is a human construct and not a function of a god. Also your NO means that your God is an immoral being, who commanded killing your son for disobedience and getting drunk. It was not even among the ten commandments of Moses. It was God who stated it directly in the bible. This paints your God as highly immoral.

Stop deflecting and answer my question. Your opinion of God is completely inconsequential. U already rejected him so calling him immoral is highly irrelevant.

I told u the source of my morality is Christ. And Christ told me prostitution is a sin, so none of my daughters will me encouraged into the despicable behaviour.

Now tell me the source of your morality. Is it ok to allow your 4 daughters to go into constitution.
U already said it's ok for one of your daughters to be a prostitute. U said it here so pls don't take it back.

I just want to know if that decision is based on having other good daughters or u think it's ok if all become prostitute.
If your answer is no, then why is it ok for just one and not the other 3.
What is the source of that moral decision. Your moral principle is based on what source.

That's my question. Pls answer.

LordReed:
No bro it doesn't work that way. You answer mine then I answer yours. You told the person you were responding to that you answer without long talk so don't disappoint me now.

Abraham is not morally perfect. He followed what was socially/culturally accepted norm by misleading his wife and putting her at risk 2ce. That was needless because God already assured him of his safety.

So yes he committed sin. But we don't judge prophets based on their moral flawless but their willingness to be used by God.

Abraham took a huge leap of faith by coming out of his already established home to journey into the unknown wilderness just because God told him to do so at a time YHWH was a relatively unknown deity.

It's like someone leaving his successful career in New York to go and live in a remote village in nasawara just because an unknown god told him to. Most of us will conclude he's crazy. That's exactly the case for Abraham and that's why he's called the Father of Faith.

geoworldedu:
Mosaic law
Mosaic Morality is different from Nigerian Morality
Was that not my point at the beginning of this discourse? Morality is subjective.

Your long sermons still didn't answer my question Mr dribbler who ended up dribbling himself.

Is it moral to kill your disobedient and drunk child according to how your God stated it?

No because as a Nigerian Christian I don't follow the law of ancient Israel- mosaic law. I have no business with it. I didn't become a Christian because of mosaic law but the law of Christ which is the new testament.

The law of Christ which is the foundational principle of my morality NEVER INSTRUCT ME TO KILL MY KIDS IF THEY DISOBEY ME INSTEAD IT ADMONISH ME TO CORRECT THEM GENTLY BY DIRECTING THEM TO THE LORD.
THAT IS WHAT CHRIST SAID.

Now for the last time answer my question. Is it ok for u to allow your 4 daughters enter prostitution if that is their wish.

Answer the question. Stop deflecting. What is the source of your morality.

geoworldedu:
You want to dribble your way abi. Answer my question biko. Your god said that you should bring your disobedient and drink child to be stoned to death. Now my question is, is the act of killing your son morality or immoral? Pls answer in one sentence and stop perambulating.

This is about source of morality, not textual criticism of the bible.
But because I never told u before I will indulge u last time.

Now u quote from the mosaic law which consist of moral law, ceremonial law and civil law. The law u quoted is a civil law which is the basis for the nation of Israel constitution. I'm not an Israelite and the ancient Israel nation no longer exist. Thus the civil law is null and void.

The Midrash and the mishnah which are the Jewish interpretation of the Torah described the civil law comes from ancient Israel’s legal system, not a general instruction for all people at all times. By the time of Jesus Christ, the law had been abandoned.

It's meant to be punishment for targeted extreme, persistent behavior (described as violent, destructive, not just “disobedient”) despite repeated warnings and not a single isolated incidence.
So it functioned more like a societal law in a theocratic setting, not a blanket moral rule for families.

Now answer my question. I want to be sure I understand u.
Are u saying it's ok to allow your 4 daughters enter prostitution if it's there desire? Is that what u are saying ?

UnknownQueen:
I agree the universe was created by you....okpor

I will be surprised if your Brian size is beyond that of a fish.
No wonder she has never spent enough time to know that time was created when universe itself was created. B4 that there was no concept of time.

You are woman anyway so no point.

geoworldedu:
Wait o. I want to be an onlyfan model myself. Can you put me through? I need to put my joystickk to maximum use.

For my 18 year daughter, I will speak to her based on how the society I am in view the person. If she thinks she can stomach the insults from people in the society, then it's her choice. She's adult. As for me, I really really wanna join o

So u have no problem with your 18 year old daughter exposing her naked body online. Is that what u saying.
What if she graduates to full blown adult movie star having sex with multiple men on camera, that one too is ok by u.

I just want to be sure I'm reading right.

So if u have 3 other daughters and they want to follow the lead of the first one. U will wish them well.

Is that not what u saying?

geoworldedu:
Now to you, what is the source of your morality? If it is your God, then I want to ask, is it moral or immoral to kill your son who disobeyed orders and also get drunk at a point in time, thereby disgracing your family name?

U will know people who have never attended Sunday school for a day. Did any Christian ever tell u we follow someone who gets drunk in the bible or we say such habit should be replicated.

We shout everyday that the scriptures is inspired and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

But no all these ones will fly over their brain and will asking ridiculous questions as if the bible tells us to copy everything in it.

LordReed:
So Abraham was a sinner?



Where is it written in the Bible that masturbation is a sin?

Lord Reed I'm interested in your answer. U are quite intelligent and I know u to be a seeker of truth. Don't let me down

If u find yourself in a remote island where cannibalism is perfectly legal. Will u join them to consume human flesh or u will say no.

If u object despite everyone around u finds it perfectly ok, what is the source of that morality.

If your 16 year old son wants to take puberty blockers so he can transition to female. Will u object?

If your 16 year old daughter starts taking contraceptive pills so she can have free sex with her boyfriend. What will be your stance.

If your answer is no to all the 3, then I need to know why u consider all 3 immoral. What is the source of that morality. Who indoctrinated u to think having sex at 16 is wrong or transgender is immoral.

If u answer my question, I will answer yours.

UnknownQueen:
Can A God exist without his own creator..
Foolish people say God exist outta time, ask them to come and explain what existence outta time means, theyll start stammering, they just make up shits (like fictional movie scripts) in their heads just to answer mystery questions that keeps troubling their minds,
Let me ask you, will theists die if they say they dont have answers about how the world came to existence instead of formulating theories and bullshits about how the world was formed..

U are the ignorant one. Pls tell us what is the universe made up of.

We all know the universe is created because it's 14.3 billion years old.
Now tell us what comprise the universe then we will know if anything exist outside of time.

Atheist will not read but will forming pseudo intelligent online

musicwriter:
You have a whole lot of misconception about what you're talking about because religion has really destroyed your sense of sound reasoning.

The reason we consume animals and consider it good, while vegetarians consider it immortal IS NOT BECAUSE OF A GOD but because of what I told you in my first post. I SAID THAT IT'S WE HUMANS THAT SET THE CONTEXT FOR GOOD OR BAD.

Therefore, something maybe good to one group but bad to another group. But both would be right because culture has set the context for good or bad by the two groups.

Something maybe good in one place but perceived bad in another location, in fact, something good to you may be bad to me, vice versa. But it doesn't mean that either of us is absolutely wrong.

There's no absolute good/bad or right/wrong UNTIL the motive and or context is examined WITHIN A CULTURE OR GROUP. That's why judges sometimes will set a murderer free because he/she committed murder for the right reason under the ethics of a given society.

For example; popular US rapper, Snoop Dogg, once shot someone dead with a gun but when the case went to court, he was declared innocent by the judge. And he was set fee.

Why? Because he committed murder for the right reason!

I am sorry, but religion make adults think with childish one-sided brain and reasoning, so I doubt you'll understand what I just said.

But if you're really interested in understanding your own topic, go read chapter 6 of the book: what is satan? What is Lucifer? The biggest secret in the world. That would give you an understanding of your own topic. Read the PDF version only. You'll find a source to it on one of my threads

Musicwriter I am not interested in the morality of the whole world or some people or some culture. I AM INTERESTED IN YOUR OWN MORALITY AND THE ONE U USE TO LEAD YOUR HOME.
WHAT IS THE SOURCE OF THAT MORALITY OR U ALLOW THE SOCIETY TO DECIDE FOR U?

So if u travel to place where eating of animals is frowned upon, will u stop eating animals because the society says so.

What if u travel to another society where they don't eat fish, will also stop eating fish because that society says so.

Homosexuality is illegal in Nigeria, but legal in UK. If your son that lives in UK tells u he wants to become gay, will you tell him to go ahead because being gay is legal in UK.

That's my question.

Music writer, if your daughter lives in USA calls u n announce she wants to become onlyfans model. Will u say it's ok for her to start exposing her body online because such is legal in USA

That's my question. If your answer to both is no, then I need to know the source of your morality. What informed of your decision to say no when both acts are perfectly legal in those countries.

Music writer if u find yourself in a remote island where cannibalism still exist. Will u join them in chopping human meat because such is legal in that community or you will denounce it as immoral.

If u denounce it, what is the foundational basis to object to canabilism even though people around u find it perfectly ok.

Pls stop talking about Snoop dog, this is not about him. I am interested in knowing the source of your morality. That's all.

Someone already said morality is based on background and society. Then what is the source of the society morality. Where did it come from.

That's my question. Pls answer.

geoworldedu:
Like I said before I'm not an atheist and I'm not a religious gullible like you.

Now back to what you said: After reading through the book of Otem, I discovered that even your so-called morality is subjective. Let me quickly run you down memory lane. In ancient Israel, these are things that are moral:

1. Killing your son or daughter whenever a voice in your head called 'God' or 'Jehovah' is asking for him as a sacrifice. Examples of those who attempted this are Abraham and Jephthah.

2. Honour Killing. That's killing your disobedient son, daughter, sister or brother. For example, Jehovah asked them to release their stubborn children to be stoned to death in the bible. Till today moral Islamists are still performing honour killings. You can briefly 'Ai' that fact.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 NIV (New International Version)
They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death.

3. When your brother dies, you are to marry his wife. It is a moral thing to the Israelites back then. It looks immoral to us down here.

4. Killing people who are working on Saturday (Sabbath day). Moses asked his God what to do to such a man. Moses was very moral. He ended up ordering the death of such person.

Now let me tell you what happens when you change base here on earth. Many things about you will change. Your orientation about life, what you consider moral and immoral. Sex here is considered highly immoral, but in many parts of the world, it is just what people can do as living being.

Let me ask you a question. Is Masturbation Moral or immoral?

You can ask AI, let's see what the response will be.

Unseen that this guy didn't answer my question but ran to bible to start giving exegesis of what he knew nothing about.

My bible tells me all forms of sexual behaviour outside of your WIFE is a sin. Masturbation is a sin because it's self pleasure and we all know masturbation is fueled by lustful thoughts. And lust is a sin.

U see how I answer your question without long talk.

Now answer my own question. If your 18 year old tells u she wants to become onlyfans model, will u frown at it.
If yes, what is the source of your morality. I want to know.

CorperKola:
Even in your bible a prophet caused lions to eat teenagers who made fun of him

Stop that your pandering
All abramhaic religions are violent

Get educated. The prophet was punished for abusing his powers

MrPresident1:
It will be very good for humanity. Islam is not the problem, Islam is the cure.

Western civilization which Christianity is it's religion, and, is one of the vehicles for it's purveying, is the problem.

Yeah we see how Islam has cured the problems in northern Nigeria.
Meanwhile we are yet the miraculous cure in countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan.

It's always the countries that are not interested that u guys want to implement the miraculous cure of Islam.