Mod pls shut down this topic. Its simply a fiction of the op's imagination.
No brother make such extreme demand to help his late brother's family.
Its also a slap on numerous family and uncles who actually stepped up to assist their niece/nephew on the demise of their parents.

AbuTwins:


Bowing or prostrating for God is worship so it can be used for God!

There's no difference between he knelt/bowed for God and he worshipped God in the Biblical context!

When it comes to humans it is always bow/kneel that is used!

So the translators determined what to use for Jesus to make him God!


How do you worship as Christians? You clap, sing, dance, etc. Do the angels regard that as worship? No!

Worship is to bow/kneel/put the face on the ground!

The First commandment!



What word do you expect to be used?
I perfectly agree with you that the word is used to mean worship for Example:

“Believe Me, woman,” Jesus replied, “a time is coming when you will worship (proskynēsete) the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. John 4:21

But the traditional meaning is to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage.

“At this the servant fell on his knees (prosekynei) before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ Matthew 18:26

Webster's Bible Translation
The servant therefore fell down, and worshiped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

You can see the translators toying with your brain except if you have only eyes without insight!

U have not answered my question. U are simply playing with semantics.

John actually fell on his knees to worship the angel. But the angel rejected it.

8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9 But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”

He fell on his knees to worship the angel...why did the angel not accept it as sign of respect?
Why did the angel regard John falling at his feet to proskyneson as something only for God.


Pagans can worship whatever they like, we talking of Jews here who fully understands that only ONE should be worshipped.


When Peter met Cornelius in acts 10.25, Cornelius fell on the feet of Peter and worshipped him.

. 25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped (proskyneson) him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.”

Why did Peter reject proskyneson if it's just to bow as you insinuating.
Once again, Cornelius fell on his feet to worship...why did Peter not accept it as sign of respect.
Why did Peter regard Cornelius falling at his feet to proskyneson something meant only for God.

Yet Jesus was busy collecting proskyneson all over the place in Galilee and Judea. He didn't reject it and never corrected anybody not to fall at their feet to proskyneson him.

Peter a disciple of Jesus rejected same proskyneson given to Jesus and told people it's only meant for God.

The angel a heavenly being rejected same proskyneson given to Jesus and told people it's only meant for God.

Why didn't Jesus say the same thing, why was Jesus collecting proskyneson meant only for God.

That's my question.

MaxInDHouse:

It's a title Israelites use for God but not the name of their God which means other nations can refer to their own God as their own Adonai but when talking about the name God of Israel has a particular name that all the nations knew back then just as their Gods also has names!

Adonai is an Hebrew word my friend, so why should non Israelites call their God by an Hebrew name?

AbuTwins:


What does prosekynēsan mean in Greek that New Testament was translated from?
It means to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage.

When you do that for God is it not worship or what else can it mean?

A final example for you to check out:
“At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ Matthew 18:26

Same word prosekynei is used in the verse above again translated as fell on his kneel!

Assuming Jesus was involved it will also be worshipped!

Is it not clearly dubious?

Answer my question or keep quiet.

When Jesus said Thou shall worship only the LORD thy God...what is the koine greek word used for worship.

Why did the angel refuse worship from John in revelation and told him to worship only God.
What was the koine greek word used for worship in the verse.

The word used for worship in the verses I quoted was proskyneson.
So why is proskyneson such a big deal for the angel that he rejected it and told John proskyneson should only be to God.

Pagans can worship whatever they like, we talking of Jews here who fully understands that only ONE should be worshipped.


When Peter met Cornelius in acts 10.25, Cornelius fell on the feet of Peter and worshipped him.

. 25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped (proskyneson) him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.”

Why did Peter reject proskyneson if it's just to bow as you insinuating.

Janosky:


Oga, tell this forum.

U Jehovah witness will never cease to amaze me. U will see the truth gidigba like this, yet deny it.

What is the English word for Adonai in the English bible.
Can the English word be used for anything else in the bible.
Can adonai be used for anyone else apart for God.

Janosky:

Most times,Lord or LORD is used to reference the Most High God.
Lord or lord to reference men or angels.
LORD has never been a reference to men, LORD is a substitute for YHWH God's holy name.

These points have been addressed

What word is used for Adonai in the English bible. And can that word be used for humans or anything else.

Janosky:


The website has not revealed anything different from what janosky or Max had already posted.

So then tell me what's the difference btw Lord and LORD in the English bible- old testament.

Janosky:



My point:
Adonai (LORD) is a substitute for YHWH, God's name.
Adonai is NOT God's name.

According to gotquestions:
Adonai is a title as rightly pointed out by gotquestions.
Adonai is simply a term of respect that is in keeping with the English definition and usage of the word lord.

It would be more accurate to say that Adonai is used as a description of God or as a title of respect, rather than a name in the proper sense."

Go and learn the difference between LORD, Lord and lord, then come back discuss.

Hopefully this will help...

https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/god-yhwh/difference-between-lord-Lord-and-LORD.htm

MaxInDHouse:

What is the Hebrew word that KJV translated LORD at Exodus 6:3?
Is it YHVH or Adonai?

I'm talking about Lord and not LORD.
That's why I asked U to go and learn the difference.
Don't quote me again unless U have an insight into the difference btw Lord, LORD and lord as used in the old testament.

MaxInDHouse:


Ọmọ it's your translators that replaced God's name with title LORD in the original Hebrew text the word they translated to LORD is YHWH which was rightly translated as YAHWEH or JEHOVAH.
You can compare different translations.
In the KJV they only left it as Jehovah in four verses.
Exodus 6:3; Psalms 83:18; Isaiah 12:2; 26:4
While all other versions kicked against the KJV because it's hypocrisy rendering the same word differently in various verses.
So it was a name not a title!

And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. Exodus 6:3

That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth. Psalms 83:18

Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation. Isaiah 12:2

Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength: Isaiah 26:4

KJV

I don't think U understand your own argument. Who's debating YHWH with U.
The bone of contention is adonai- Lord.

MaxInDHouse:

No wahala if you feel the title PRESIDENT and President differs it's OK!

If U don't know something, ask instead of clowning in ignorance.

In the old testament,
The word LORD is YWH in Hebrew the name of God
The word Lord is Adonai in Hebrew and it's used only for God.
The word lord is adoni in hebrew and it denote human master.
Sarah called

AbuTwins:


Both Isaac and Ishmael are Prophets in Islam. Each fulfilling their own mission!
Na inside Bible God dey discriminate!

I think I have told you that Angels, Satan, Human and Yahweh can be called Elohim aka God. Why repeating this here?

We talking bible here, I dont believe what's written in the Koran.

So Hagar called an angel 'the Living one who sees me'
Who is called Living one in the bible?

So Hagar called an angel 'El roi'? In case U don't know, one of the names of God is El roi.

So go back and answer my question did Hagar refer to angel of the LORD as God?

Janosky:


No Sir.

According to gotquestions, your Trinitarian mentors,
Adonai is not the name of God Almighty.

"The word Adonai is simply the word for “Lord.” Lord is defined in English as “someone or something having power, authority, or influence; a master or ruler.” In 1 Samuel 24:8, 26:17, and 29:8, David refers to Saul as “my lord the king,” and he uses the term Adonai. Likewise, Abner refers to David in the same way in 2 Samuel 3:21, and this is found throughout the book of 2 Samuel as a reference to David. The term is used of other kings as well. Some of Elisha’s followers use the term Adonai to refer to Elisha in 2 Kings 2:19. As can be seen by its usage throughout the Old Testament, Adonai is simply a term of respect that is in keeping with the English definition and usage of the word lord.

It would be more accurate to say that Adonai is used as a description of God or as a title of respect, rather than a name in the proper sense"

Go and learn the diference btw adoni and adonai- lord and Lord.
Then come back and discuss.

AbuTwins:


So that means you are derailing the thread as the thread specifically addresses Muslims worshipping the Kaaba!

Sins are different in Islam and Christianity!
Sins are unequal in Islam. In Christianity sins are equal!

As regards the Black Stone:

The Black Stone was sent down by Allah to this earth from Paradise.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbas said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “The Black Stone came down from Paradise.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; al-Nasaa’i, 2935. The hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Tirmidhi).

The Stone was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaa said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “When the Black Stone came down from Paradise, it was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; Ahmad, 2792. Classed as saheeh by Ibn Khuzaymah, 4/219. Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar classed it as qawiy (strong) in Fath al-Baari, 3/462).

So if Allah told U guys to bow to kabba in the Koran or hadiths. It shows God in the bible is not the same as Allah in the Koran.
Simple.

God in the bible forbid anyone to worship him by bowing before a stone.
So if your Allah is telling U to bow before a stone, then they are not the same God.

It's impossible for God to give contradictory message. Same God cannot tell Moses one thing and then tell Muhammed exact opposite.

Allah is not God of the bible, Allah is an impostor.

I think this settles the case.

AbuTwins:


Is it filled with the glory of God all the time when Daniel, Solomon, David were praying?
Show the verses?

Chronicles is clearly for that verse alone!

The verses I brought were for Solomon praying to God in the temple. Read 2 chronicles 7.1-13, can't be repeating myself.

The book of ezekiel also talked about the glory of God filling the temple.

Ezekiel 43
As the glory of the Lord entered the temple by the gate facing east, 5 the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the temple.

There was no temple during the time of David but the tabernacle had always existed since the time of Moses and it's filled with the glory of God.

Exodus 40.34

Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle. 35 Moses could not enter the tent of meeting because the cloud had settled on it, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.

The Lord said to Moses, let them make me a sanctuary, that I may dwell in their midst. Exactly as I show you concerning the pattern of the tabernacle, and of all its furniture. There I will meet with you, from above the mercy seat. Exodus 25:8-9.

When the temple was built by Solomon, the tabernacle was inside the holy on holies in the temple.

Its obvious U've not read the bible, U don't know anything about the old testament. That's why U ignorant about the glory of God, temple n tabernacle.

U just parroting dawahganda script repeated in your mosque up and down. Even a 2 year old Christian knows God dwells in the temple.

That's why U Muslims are pagan. U bow before an object void of God.

MaxInDHouse:


Guy Adonai simply means "Lord" it's no name!

U better do some research into Hebrew name of God.
Adonai is only used exclusively for God.

B4 U reply me, learn the difference btw Lord and lord and how it's used in the old testament.

MaxInDHouse:

NO It was an exclamation!

It could be as a result of amazement or when someone is terrified.

Jesus shouted ELI ELI does it mean he was talking to those torturing him?

No nah that's how normal humans exclaim when they are amazed or terrified!

Adonai is the name of God, why would a Jew use it for exclamation.
Show me where Adonai or any name of God was used as exclamation in the bible.
That's what I've been asking U and U refuse to respond...show me where Jews used the name of God as a symbol of shock or surprise or amazement.
Just one example....

Jesus called out to his Father Eli..Eli..
It wasn't a mark of exclamation or anguish. He was actually talking to God.

AbuTwins:


Where is Shikenah here?

This is your David bowing towards the Holy temple!
Of David. I give You thanks with all my heart; before the gods I sing Your praises. I bow down toward Your holy temple and give thanks to Your name for Your loving devotion and Your faithfulness; You have exalted Your name and Your word above all else. Psalm 138:1-2

This is your Solomon!
1 Kings 8:29
May Your eyes be open toward this temple night and day, toward the place of which You said, 'My Name shall be there,' so that You may hear the prayer that Your servant prays toward this place.

This is David again!
Psalm 5:7
But I will enter Your house by the abundance of Your loving devotion; in reverence I will bow down toward Your holy temple.


This is David again!
Psalm 28:2
Hear my cry for mercy when I call to You for help, when I lift up my hands toward Your holy sanctuary.

And Daniel got on his kneels and prayed facing Jerusalem!
Daniel 6:10
Now when Daniel learned that the decree had been published, he went home to his upstairs room where the windows opened toward Jerusalem. Three times a day he got down on his knees and prayed, giving thanks to his God, just as he had done before.

The glory of God is called shikenah in Hebrew. Its in the talmud.

What's with all these verses U bringing...U don't get it, do U?

Prophets bow towards the temple because it's filled with the presence of God.
How many times will I spell it for U. Gosh.
They are bowing to God's glory in the temple not the physical structure.
That's why I brought 2 chronicles 7. See it in another passage.

2 chronicles 5. 13-14
Then the temple of the Lord was filled with the cloud, 14 and the priests could not perform their service because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled the temple of God.

AbuTwins:
One of the flimsy reasons why Jesus is called God today was because people pay homage to him as a Prophet and man of God!

Here are some of the verses:

Matthew 28:9
And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him (prosekynēsan).

What does prosekynēsan mean in Greek that New Testament was translated from?
It means to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage.

Why was "Worshipped" used above?
To make Jesus God!

Matthew 14:33
And those in the boat worshiped him(prosekynēsan), saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Again what does prosekynēsan mean in Greek that New Testament was translated from?
It means to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage.

Why was "Worshipped" used above?
To make Jesus God!

Matthew 2:11
And going into the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him (prosekynēsan). Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.

Luke 24.52
And the disciples worshiped him (prosekynēsan) and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The man bowed (prosekynēsan) in front of Jesus and said, "I believe, Lord." John 9:38

What does prosekynēsan mean in Greek that New Testament was translated from?
It means to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage.

It seems the Bible translators had been toying with many brains for long!

Finally when Jesus worshipped the father in Matthew 26:39, they never used worshipped even it is clear he was earnestly praying to someone greater than him!

Going a little farther, he (Jesus) fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

Then explain why the same word proskyneson which is worship in koine greek was used when refering to worshipping God.

Why did the angel refuse John to worship him- proskyneson but told him to worship- proskyneson only God.


“Get out of here, Satan,” Jesus told him. “For the Scriptures say,

‘You must worship (proskyneson) the Lord your God
and serve only him

8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw all these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship- (proskyneo) at the feet of the angel who showed them to me. 9 But he said, “No, don’t worship me. I am a servant of God, just like you and your brothers the prophets, as well as all who obey what is written in this book. Worship (proskyneson) only God!”

AbuTwins:


What is the word translated as "worshipped"?

prosekynēsen means to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The men in the boat bowed down in front of Jesus and said, "You are truly the Son of God." Matthew 14:33

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The man bowed in front of Jesus and said, "I believe, Lord." John 9:38

Good News Translation
"I believe, Lord!" the man said, and knelt down before Jesus. John 9:38

Let me even make this a thread!

Then tell me why did the angel speaking to John reject worship and told him to worship only God.
If as U claim, worship in new testament simply means to bow.

MaxInDHouse:


Hmmmmmmmmmmm well the Hebrew word for God is Elohim shortened Eli and the word for Lord is Adonai.

So U think a Jew will call a mere human Adonai?

AbuTwins:


But you hid Genesis 17:20 as a hypocrite that you are
And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.

What's all these.....we talking about angel of the LORD, U shifted to Ishmael....
Did Hagar refer to the angel of the LORD as God? Yes or No

Your genesis 17.20 is very lame, U are the one hiding something. This is the full verse.

19 Then God said, “Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with Isaac as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.
21 But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year.” 22 When he had finished speaking with Abraham, God went up from him.

God's covenant is with Isaac and not Ishmael.

AbuTwins:
Thank you!

So how do we consider the stone as God?

Once U consider something a god, any adoration or reverence to it is worship. You are showing your hypocrisy full time!

You claim we worship the Kaaba in a similar way you greet your parents!

See the way Jesus worships the father
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, Matthew 26:39

Same way you greet your parents!

The difference is intention!
You didn't intend to worship them but greet them!

How is that not applicable to us if not hypocrisy?

Guy I never said U guys worship the kabba. Go through my previous post, no where did I say U guys worship a stone.

I SAID U MUSLIMS BOW BEFORE A STONE WHICH IS A SIN TO GOD.
GOD FORBID HUMANS BOWING BEFORE A STONE WHEN WORSHIPPING HIM.
GOD HATES IT WHEN YOU ASSOCIATE A STONE WITH HIM.

Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.
Lev 26.1


And never set up sacred stone, for the Lord your God hates them.
Deuteronomy 16.22


Abu read to understand

MaxInDHouse:


So you don't believe the Bible you're quoting again!

The two words he used has been translated to English mainly LORD and GOD both aren't name of any known deity. If you study your Bible diligently you will discover that there are many Gods the Bible mentioned each with it's name and the Bible also say the God of Israel too has a name that differs from what other Gods are called.
So Thomas exclaiming my God and my Lord is not the name of any known deity both are just titles that's why Paul could say there are many GODS and many LORDS.
For your information if you say LORD in the presence of a Muslim he will tell you "that is Allah" if you say the same in the presence of a Roman in the first century he will tell you "that is Jupiter" if you say the same in the presence of a Greek he will tell you "that is Zeus"

So it's the name that differentiate these Gods not titles written in upper or lower case!

U waffling....tell me the exact words Thomas used when he said My Lord, My God.

When Jesus said My God, my God on the cross. What exact word did he use?

MaxInDHouse:


Is LORD or GOD a name?

Perhaps you're confused about the use of upper case because Paul made it clear that there are many Lords and Gods so those titles can't be the name of any deity! 1Corinthians 8:5

How did Jesus call God?
Tell me the exact word used by Thomas. Pls don't mention Theon because Thomas didn't speak greek to Jesus.

Janosky:

"Ego eime (I am)" , Christ made the same expression @ John 6:20. Mark 6:50,Mark 13:6, John 9:9 John8:,24,28.
@ John 8:28, starting From verses 1-28, & these other verses,did Jesus Christ mean that "I am" @ verse 28 meaning he is God Almighty?

Trinitarians are very deceptive clinging to verse 58, to support their man made scam invented at Nicene.



John 5:37 & John 14:9,Is Jesus Christ God his Father?

Worshipping 2 beings is idolatry & polytheism NOT Christianity.



Eschatos & alpha are two different Greek words & their context is different.
D

Jesus Christ isn't physically God, he's God in flesh.
Jesus is physically human with a human soul but his spirit is the divinity of God.
Unlike our spirit which is made in image of God , Jesus spirit is the divinity of God.

That's why Colossians said in Jesus lies the fullness of Godhead deity.

The human soul of Jesus acknowledged that he was given divinity and he honoured his Father who gave him the divinity.
Daniel 7.13 explain how someone like a son of man was brought before ancient of days and given divinity.


So if U understand above, all the questions U people and Muslims ask about humanity and limitations of Jesus will become clear.

Ask more questions and I will explain further using the scriptures.

Ohyoudidnt:


Thomas might have been overwhelmed with emotion and awe. Could he not have been referring to the almighty as his lord and God or Jesus as his lord and the almighty as his God?

Do U believe Jesus has a divine nature? That's my question.
U said up there that Jesus has a divine nature and I want to confirm U actually said so.

Thomas couldn't have used God as exclamation mark- such phrase doesn't exist in those days n Jewish won't call God's name in vain.

Ohyoudidnt:


Glad you accept Jesus or Yeshua didn't establish anything new. He even encouraged obedience of the priests and elders regarding the scripture.

Where really did Christianity come from?

Jesus established the CHURCH. That's what he came here to establish.

How many times will I tell U.

Now say it after me so U don't forget...JESUS CHRIST CAME TO ESTABLISH THE CHURCH.

When he was going, he handed over his church to his disciples.

And when he comes back, HE'S COMING BACK FOR THE CHURCH, NOT ANY RELIGION.

If U like continue wasting time on the best religion,
that's Una problem.

If U are not a member of the church JESUS CHRIST established, YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING JESUS CHRIST.

Ohyoudidnt:


You don't or pretend not to get how far the interaction of prophets went. Is Solomon not of Israel?


Do you not identify as a Christian? You will say no so please tell what you identify as?

Claiming Christianity is not a religion Jesus established is inconsequential. It doesn't matter...
That's my point.

Ohyoudidnt:
The Queen of Sheba is believed to have been from Africa. You have reference to her relationship with Solomon.

What has queen Sheba has to do with what we talking here....
Besides, can U confirm U agree that Jesus Christ has a divine nature.

Ohyoudidnt:


Oh please.

Quran 49:13:O humanity! Indeed, We created you from a male and a female, and made you into peoples and tribes so that you may ˹get to˺ know one another. Surely the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous among you. Allah is truly All-Knowing, All-Aware.

Define Islam and see if prophets before Muhammad pbuh did not inculcate it's doctrine. Many of your peers vehemently state Jesus did not preach religion and best we know Mary his mother and David his great father practiced Judaism.

Where did Christianity come from?

Oh each prophet forms a new religion.

Abraham had his, Moses had his, Isaiah, Enoch etc.?

You ve said nothing. Christianity as a religion means
nothing. Jesus Christ is everything, what U call yourself is inconsequential- what matters is being a follower of Christ.

Jesus disciples called themselves The way.
The Jews called them The Nazarenes
The gentiles called them Christians.
Any Jesus follower is free to pick a new name if he feels like it. Changes nothing.

So if Jesus didn't bring religion then what did he bring?

He brought the CHURCH. Yes Jesus established the church, he mentioned he brought the church and whatever name U call yourself, so long as U are member of the church which is the body of Jesus Christ- U are following the true faith and on the right path.

Do U get it now?
The way and manners U Muslims try to extrapolate islamic doctrines into Christianity and expect us to accept it will never crease to amaze me.

By the way, the spiritual home of islamic faith is Saudi arabia. U people must face that country otherwise your prayers will be rejected.

gaskiyamagana:

I am enjoying you as christian in schoolarfool discussion of Islamic Qur'an for nothing other than bringing it to the level of fallacy, fiction false, fabrication and mutilation as strongly, like ublica cord of foetus to mother, associated with bible.

Guy pack if U cannot contribute intellectually to the debate here, go and count sands or better still go guard mosque.