₦airaland Forum

Sagamite: There is nothing you can do as a well meaning and educated Nigerian when you have:

1) Democracy - All fucktards opinions matter equally.

2) Freedom of speech philosophy - Even fucktards think they have the right to talk.

3) Corrupt & Inefficient social structure - A few corrupt moneybags run the small media industry in Nigeria, which keeps the best away from shaping views and you have a few mediocre and incompetent person like Funmi Iyanda ruling the airwaves.

4) Global trends - This fucktardism is a global phenomena championed by the liberal funkies who now have unrestrianed access to several media to propagate their nice sounding, fun but absolutely cancerous rubbish.

This is why I prefer Constitutional Republic. Democracy is a trite...and is failing too.

SNCOQ3: I fear that those who deny the Lord Jesus for 'logic' may end up bowing down to the 'Counterfeit-Jesus'. Atheism will give way for magic, mysticism, spiritism when he who restrains is taken out of the way ....Atheism is just a diabolic means to a diabolic end.

wiegraf:
This is your post brah, it's still remarkably foo.lish. Among other things, it clearly states that atheism entails one ends up diabolic, or with a 'diabolic end'. Do you want to continue remixing your meaning? Perhaps one can subscribe to a diabolic "philosophy" without being diabolic? Interesting.

A stoopid post getting a stoopid reply. Again, I hope you're not complaining.

Your interpretation of what i meant is clearly wrong: Its clearly above your comprehension.
Neither do i disagree that an evil philosophy like atheism, if practiced to its logical conclusion, can render its adherents evil:
-------------------------
Jeffrey Dahmer, an infamous serial killer and atheist sentenced to 900 years in prison, said “if a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?”. He brutally killed seventeen men and boys, dismembering them, storing their parts and indulging in cannibalism and necrophilia. In 1991, he was caught by the police after one of his would-be victims escaped. Despite pleading not guilty on the basis on insanity, the court found him sane and fully accountable. He later expressed remorse.
------------------------

So Mr. "subjective morality" are we clear on that now?

wiegraf: And then?

If you call people diabolique, [color=#76a58d]or whatever nonsense you put up there, what do you expect? Really? I hope you're not b1tching as that would be silly, no? Say something stoopid, get a stoopid reply, where's the problem? I expect the same from others, it's only fair.

And you do realize I left it at that but anony persisted because he wants to make me look stoopid, yes? Who do you think was looking for a fight? Wow[/color]

Are you Atheism? What my post suggest is: an Atheist is just a victim of a diabolic philosophical movement.

-edit-

Amplified version:
...and i think its a catastrophic mistake to have someone like Dawkins to address himself to profound issues of theology, the existence God, the nature of life, he hasn't committed himself to disciplined study in any relevant area of inquiry, he is a crom... philosopher, he doesn't have the rudimentary skills to meticulously assess his own argument.
- David Berlinski

Condensed version:
Dawkins is a philosophical dunce.

wiegraf: [color=#76a58d]I have no problem with looking like a child, silly you. Also, other than toying with you, what makes you think I care about what you in particular think? World is centered around me anonysm. And where did I throw out an insult? That's some more stoopid right there.
[/color]




A silly post deserves as silly riposte, no? And y'all flocked together, 3 stoogies style, around some (as usual) silly arguments. Therefore I used xtian, not just sn00, as it seems you all believe in this bit of nonsense. See?

[color=#76a58d]By the way, the whole world domination quote is from a memorable sweetnecta post. It's good, no?[/color]

Lol...you and your attitude. You seem to always want to turn a forum to a 'fight room'. I was addressing a Christian not you; otherwise, the approach would have been different.

Mr_Anony: Another Dawkins fanboy......I wonder how you came to the conclusion that most intelligent people weren't allowed in. Was there an intelligence test at the door which people had to fail in order to gain entrance?

My bruv, its the spirit of 'denial' at work.

ooman: Richard Dawkins was only VOTED AGAINST because the audience was filled with BRAINWASHED XTIANS. According to the report, many people were turned away

Most intelligent people werent allowed inside the room, only the gullible ones and even some abstained from voting.

DAWKINS WAS NOT DEFEATED, HE WAS CHEATED

So much for "open mind".

Enigma: Some of the "arguments" made by Dawkins were the same juvenile stuff we are now used to hearing and some being similar to the unthinking rants that we read on Nairaland everyday.

In one of the reports even a second year student pointed this out effectively saying that Dawkins did not address the real issue.

And for all we hear about religion being dead, its 'decline' etc etc, the supposed 'future leaders and elite' of the UK still voted overwhelmingly that it has a place in the 21st century.

Anyway, Christians don't need such debate or a positive vote or a win for Williams over a dunce like Dawkins to trust in the Saviour of Mankind, the Wisdom Unsearchable, Love Indestructible, the Lord of Eternity.

Yea my brother, we don't need validation from anyone but just for the sake of religion vs 'denial' debate...make we just dey roll with am. I find Williams as pathetic as Dawkins but in a different way...just as a traitor is as pathetic as the enemy but in a different way.

I fear that those who deny the Lord Jesus for 'logic' may end up bowing down to the 'Counterfeit-Jesus'. Atheism will give way for magic, mysticism, spiritism when he who restrains is taken out of the way ....Atheism is just a diabolic means to a diabolic end.

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For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 2 Thess 2:7
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Jesus is God.

mantraa: The same people who brought their religion to us Africans are now debating whether it is all illogical, irrational and unnecessary. The most peaceful and successful and fairest counties in the world abandon beliefs in the supernatural to move forward.
Please Watch the debate with an open mind, and try to understand both sides of it.

I watched the debate with an open mind. Dawkins made himself look like an Anti-God occultist with a special mission to deceive. Even his fellow atheist were embarrassed for him. Anyway the debate ended with a vote in favour of religion by 324 versus 138.
Atheism has no future; please lets move forward.

Richard Dawkins faced defeat in yesterday's Cambridge Union debate against Rowan Williams, the former Archbishop of Canterbury and current new Master of Magdalene College, as Cambridge students voted 324 versus 138 against the motion of 'This House Believes Religion has no place in the 21st Century' in the most high-profile debate staged at the Union so far this term.....
http://www.tcs.cam.ac.uk/issue/news/dawkins-defeated-in-cambridge-union-religion-debate/

I think you guys are stuck in an 'infinite loop' because you failed to understand that what you are dealing with requires recursive reasoning to understand.(no disrespect intended).
philosophy is in Mathematics and mathematics is in Philosophy: It is a recursion.

Christians are Spiritual Jews.

@Logicboy,
First, let me congratulate on your Japanese girlfriend...Now I know why you're bias
I know you're in love with Japan; I love Japan...and Kaizen too.
Back to the topic:

"Logicboy03":
Ah......Japanese. Kaizen means "continuous improvement" it doesnt mean perfection. It is a philosophy that gets translated into business. It is not a belief. I studied Japanese management and I have a japanese gf.

continuous improvement ultimately leads to perfection. At least we agree its a philosphy- that is what is relevant to this discourse.
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Kaizen, Japanese for "improvement", or "change for the better" refers to philosophy or practices that focus upon continuous improvement of processes in manufacturing, engineering, and business management. It has been applied in healthcare, psychotherapy, life-coaching, government, banking, and other industries...Wikepedia
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Isreal is so far away from the centre of technology that your statement is wrong.

Nooooo...Logicboy no.

Have you looked at the cars you drive in Nigeria? Toyota, Honda, Nissan. £ most common cars. Our electronics come from Japan- Sharp, Sony etc.

The Japanese are innovative with cosumer goods and mass market products - no doubt. But when it comes to mission-critical technology(medical, millitary, space...etc which is far ahead of consumer products ), the Jews are ahead of the Japanese.

Japan is the most technologically advanced country in the world
http://loonybg.hubpages.com/hub/Facts-of-Japan-Technologically-advanced

I visited the site. Its just one man's personal opinion...No data...No references.

Compare This:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Japanese_inventions

To this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_inventions_and_discoveries

Chinese students in American univeristies
http://www.cnn.co.uk/2012/11/25/world/asia/china-ivy-league-admission/index.html

[img]http://philebersole.files./2012/12/eliteenrollment-large.jpg[/img]

I would like to know how isreal is the technological centre...

Isreal is number 1 in countries devoted to Research & Development investment. The remaining top five are Sweden, Finland, Japan, and Switzerland. The U.S. ranks sixth. South Korea, Germany, Denmark, and France round out the top ten. Canada ranks 13th. The BRICs are much further down the list, with Russia 22nd, China 26th, Brazil 31st and India 38th.

...and what they produce.

Now you're bias. Do your research.

plaetton":
The bolded is complete bullshyt. Your studies indeed. have you published such studies for peer review? More like your desperate attempt to justify your goddism.

Lol...This is more like a desperate attempt to justify "agodism". If you have sufficient information against the overwhelming evidence that the jewish culture of hardwork, innovation and inventiveness has its root in their religion; please publish it for peer review.

In your studies, you forgot to tell us what percentage of Jews are religious or actually believe in god. You would be surprised.

Its presumptous to think I'll be surprised. Infact, I know the religious demographics, but its inconsequential to the subject matter(belief vs gene). Even if all the Jews convert to atheism today, it won't change the fact that their culture of hardwork, innovation and inventiveness has its origin in judaism. Afterall, most western atheist still claim to be "cultural christians" for a good reason.

lets look at this issue objectively. First, who are the Jews?
The jews are not a race onto themselves. Hardly so.
They are one of semitic races just like arabs.
Now, what sets a jew apart from an arab is not genes, but religion and culture.
So, we can agree that a strong devotion to their religion and culture has helped keep them closely knit.

Excellent! I am sure you're aware that "Jew" simply means a "called out people" meaning: a people in covenant with God. The Arabs and Jews are genetically thesame; What differentiates them, basically is belief not gene. This makes the quote below even more clearer:
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All the countries in the (middle eastern) region talk about encouraging innovation. Some oil-rich states spend billions trying to build science centers. But places like Silicon Valley and Tel Aviv are created by a confluence of cultural forces, not money. The surrounding nations do not have the tradition of free intellectual exchange and technical creativity.
For example, between 1980 and 2000, Egyptians registered 77 patents in the U.S. Saudis registered 171. Israelis registered 7,652.
-----------

But more than anything else, the impetus and desperate urge to survive is what has made jews seem somewhat unique from other races.
Scattered from time to time, always sorrounded by hostile enemies and occupiers, always on the verge of extinction, the powerful human impetus to survive has been the perfect bond that held the jews together.

Living on the fringes of other civilizations, far as history is concerned, the jews never built any enduring civilisation, and hardly ever left any enduring historical legacies. For most of their history, they were a people always living on the fringes of other more powerful civilizations.
Since jews never had access to power,they were relegated to live as traders, money lenders and smiths. These were seen as less noble occupations in those days.
If you know a little about how modern banking evolved from money lenders and goldsmiths, then you would understand how the jews have steadily grown very powerful over the last many centuries.

I agree with most of your points but "the impetus and desperate urge to survive" was not exclusive to the Jews compare to other extinct races/nations. While you might likely add luck to the "mix"; I attribute it to God...that's by the way though.

Education ,education, education.
Education has always been the great equalizer.
This is something that Jews realized long long before anyone else.

That is because its ingrained in their ancient religion. Intellectual pursuit motivated by a religious belief is stronger than the same which is motivated by the will to survive.

This is also something that our brain dead African leaders are yet to realize, even in this century.

Lol... take it easy. At least, we agree that the black race is not mentally inferior to other races. This is already proven, but the black race needs to be elightened. If our people start believing that it is not in the gene but a mindset...

In summary, success brings success. Jews educate their children and pass on their legacies to them to continue from where they stopped.

correct. So by extension, the even current atheistic jews inherited their culture of success from their religious ancestors.

So, yes , religion and culture has been indirectly responsible for the success of the jews in modern times by giving them a unique identity, the same religion and culture, in their past, also gave them nothing but pain, persecution and failure as a civilization.

The bolded is what you'd want us to believe but the reverse is also true; The blessings and punishment that comes with keeping/breaking Convenant Laws is beyond the scope of this discussion.

Todays Jews are a mixture of European and other Asian races.

...and African races too. But that is irrelevant to the subject matter.

Todays Jews are far less religious than their less successful ancestors. Majority of today's jews are cultural jews ,and not religious jews.

"Majority" is disputable; Statitistic 'says' otherwise. But it doesn't matter within the context of belief vs gene discourse.

It is laughable to ascribe the success of a race to god. History does not agree with that. I find it laughable when someone deliberately ignores 95% of known human history just to make a case for the 5%.

The "agodist" will always interprete history differently. But we know the fact of history and archeological discoveries.

Can we also say the success of the Egyptian civilization for 4000yrs was god inspired? How about the Greek civilisation? How about the Babylonian civilisation? How about the Roman Empire and civilisation?
Where are all these previously successful civilisations now? Did god abandon them or did they abandon god?

Beyond Belief vs Gene; The rise and fall of Empires is determined by God in accordance with His plan. We have our book of Prophecies...we know whats going to happen next...Its beyond the scope of this discussion though.

And which god is responsible for the 5000 yr old Chinese civilisation that has endured to this day and is currently on the verge of dominating the entire world?

Irrelevant. Even if I have used the Chinese for my case study (within the context of Belief vs Gene, I would have still been able to drive home my point. But am more impressed with the tiny-in-population Jews given their mind-bending achievement, technological prowess, Economic success...The Chinese are "Agbaya" in comparison to the Jews.

So, do you get my drift?

As far as the subject matter is concerned, your drift is: Its belief(or mindset if you like) not gene.

God remains the same today, as it has always been: A creation of the mind.

Your opinion is noted.

advocate666: So you don't believe in miracles?

I believe in miracles. God blessing the works of my hands his one of them. I'll get back to you on the gene thing.

Logicboy03: I see that you're a Jewish slave. You believe in their non-existent God.

please keep it clean. You have tried to focus on the issue so far- don't spoil it.

1) Take a look at Asians. Chinese are now dominating Ivy league schools in America
2) Japan is the world centre for technology.
3) China is going to be the largest and strongest economy soon.
4) Asia is going to be the next dominant market in the world with more shopping centres there than any other continent.

Firstly,You have to back your assertion up with the relevant data. Its a well known fact that Israel is the center of technology.
Secondly, you're missing the point.
Don't get me wrong; Japan is an advanced society and China is making great progress.

You should also know that Chinese and Japanese are very atheistic people who dont believe in the fake Jewish god.

What is relevant to this topic is: At the heart of the Japanese culture is Kaizen (Japanese philosophy of achieving perfection). The design of their ancient sword, martial art and modern technology is an evidence of their pursuit of perfection which is actually a belief.

plaetton: I agree with most of what you wrote in the beginning, until you got to the god part.
Its funny and sad how goddism always messes up a good intellect.

Your last sentence of your conclusion is complete baloney, a glaring contradiction.
How can success be a product of god and hardwork?.
It is either one or the other.
Let god make up his mind.lol

This is unnecessary. God and hardwork are not mutually exclusive. I have made it clear with the scriptures i quoted in my previous post.
here is another one:
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...In his defense Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working."
John 5:17

Hardwork in the bible is an act of worship:

Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters,
Col 3:23
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You goddists are so mischeiviously clever in always to trying to sneak god into every success and sneaking him out of every failure.

A baseless accusation unbefitting of the way we'd like this discourse to flow.

If success comes as a result of hard work,which is self evident, then give due credit to hard work.
If success comes from god, then kindly show us who,where, when and how god bestows success. Tell us the criteria or formula that god uses to determine to whom he should bestow success, and to whom to deny such.

I repeat. Hard work is an integral part of the christian faith.
In a society where cronyism prevails over merit, where injustice, corruption is the order; you need more than hardwork to scale through without compromising noble values- You need God to bless your hardwork:
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May the favor of the Lord our God rest on us; establish the work of our hands for us-yes, establish the work of our hands.
Psalm 90:17


You will eat the fruit of your labor; blessings and prosperity will be yours.
Psalm 128:2
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Right here in Terra Firma, Man is the master of his destiny, for good or for bad.
Man's journey and ultimate destination in this part of existence is neither determined nor influenced by the machinations of any god or gods(real or imagined) in the sky or in the earth.

Your dogma. Anyway, this is what is relevant to the subject matter. So for you, its belief not gene.

belabela: The above line is not contradictory. That was why I said if prosperity is about belief (faith) then all Jews should be prosperous but that is not the case. Even in modern Israel there are poor Jews. To belief there is a God is not the same as understanding that God is sovereign over all things. To think that because I am a christian for example then I must prosper financially or materially is simply not true. Faith (belief) may help me understand that behind everything in life is God but having that faith does not necessarily make me prosperous. Let me also say that God does not give wealth and riches only to those who obey and follow him. In his divine providence God has allowed several evil men to prosper and even rule the world such as Pharaoh and Nebuchadnezzar. In other words the fact that you have a belief does not necessarily translate into material and financial prosperity. Only those whom God bless the work of their hands eventually prospers irrespective of their belief but they must be hardworking.

Alright, their was no contradiction just a misconception with our understanding of belief; To make it clearer, by belief- as opposed to gene, I mean conviction, worldview, faith, philosophy, outlook and every ism at the heart of a people's culture.

As per prosperity, it is not limited to financial and material gain. We're also talking about making progress in every field of human endeavor.

As for Hard work, I am not comfortable with the phrase "God and hardwork" because a belief in the God of the bible mandates you to work hard. The Bible is our final authority and this is what it says:

A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest, and poverty will come upon you like a robber, and want like an armed man.
Prov 6:10-11

The hand of the diligent will rule, while the slothful will be put to forced labor.
Prov 12:24

In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to poverty.
Prov 14:23

The soul of the sluggard craves and gets nothing, while the soul of the diligent is richly supplied.
Prov 13:4

Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,
Col 3:23

Rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to man,
Ephesians 6:7

Do all things without grumbling or questioning, that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world
Phil 2:14-15


Go to the ant, O sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise. Without having any chief, officer, or ruler, she prepares her bread in summer and gathers her food in harvest.
Prov 6:6-8

And to aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one.
1 Thess 4:11-12

As for the Jews:
They make up 0.2 percent of the world population yet:
54 percent of the world chess champions,
27 percent of the Nobel physics laureates
31 percent of the medicine laureates.

They make up 2 percent of the U.S. population yet:
21 percent of the Ivy League student bodies,
26 percent of the Kennedy Center honorees,
37 percent of the Academy Award-winning directors,
38 percent of those on a recent Business Week list of leading philanthropists,
51 percent of the Pulitzer Prize winners for nonfiction.
http://jewishachievementblog.com/?p=95#more-95

Why?

In my studies of the Jews, I have learnt from different sources that in Judaism, Intellectual pursuit is an act of worship; You cannot separate the worship of God from hard work and the aquisition of knowledge of how the world created by God works-- It is at the heart of the Jewish culture.
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All the countries in the (middle eastern) region talk about encouraging innovation. Some oil-rich states spend billions trying to build science centers. But places like Silicon Valley and Tel Aviv are created by a confluence of cultural forces, not money. The surrounding nations do not have the tradition of free intellectual exchange and technical creativity.
For example, between 1980 and 2000, Egyptians registered 77 patents in the U.S. Saudis registered 171. Israelis registered 7,652.

http://jewishachievementblog.com/?p=95#more-95
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The Jewish faith encourages a belief in progress and personal accountability. It is learning-based, not rite-based.
-Steven L. Pease

The reason Jews prosper and are successful is not in their genes but in their training and their religion.
-Rabbi Daniel Lapin

Logicboy03: Geography is important as well

Look at China, USA and Saudi Arabia.....resources build up their economies.


Furthermore, people in colder areas have to build stronger houses and therefore have very solid architecture . European architecture has always been the most inspiring.

People in trade routes china, Egypt etc had solid civilization from the protifts from the trades



People who had discovered iron in their lands made weapons and conquered.

Its not like we were surrounded by Kilimanjaro; Even at that, to the adventurous mind, their are no excuses.
West Africa for example had geography, mineral resources and access to the sea to her advantage. Their was in-fighting among the tribes and war between kingdoms, their were trade routes too( if there are non, we could have created one through exploration; Afterall, we migrated to were we are).

Do you think belief(cultural, religious, non-religious, philosophical...etc) or gene determined our rate of progress or retardation as a race?

wiegraf: We don't need a god to recognize those traits as productive or to realize that attaining them are worthwhile pursuits. Simple common sense points in that direction. Gods are also the grand placebo, the number one excuse to throw reason into a bin. The excuse to sit around and wait for miracles. The one that urges irrationality and sacrifice in this world at the expense of gains in a hypothetical next.

They might help matters in moderation but fervent reliogosity never, ever does. Even the secular sort (eg communism). So frankly, as far as issues as these are concerned, mixing religion is a totally unnecessary thing to do especially when you consider the baggage that it comes with. Reason, logic based on natural laws we can verify should take precedence.

It seems to you, its Religion vs Reason; for me, Faith and Reason are in perfect harmony. At least you seem to agree that belief(religious or non-religious) and not gene is mainly responsible for our level of progress or non has a race(or nation if you like).

I appreciate your contribution.

turnstoner: Ojukwu got it wrong by assuming there was a god that cared

Its an assumption to think that their is not a God that cares. But the topic is whether a belief is responsible for driving progress or retarding it; or whether the gene is responsible.

Even worse, he assumed that there is a white god and a black god!

You got it wrong.

So much for your historian and philosopher!

What he said is clear enough for an average person to understand. If you have to disagree; be dispassionate; No personal attack. I mentioned him a historian and a philosopher(which he rightly is) to keep the topic on point- I don't want ethnic/tribalistic nonsense creeping in.

wiegraf: Insisting on putting god into everything is part of the problem. Some acknowledge it yet still do it?

Nobody is insisting on putting God in everything. God is already in everything and His law concerning prosperity is a universal law and not exclusive to Christians or Jews. If you work hard, you'll enjoy the fruit of your labor... What you sow is what you shall harvest in abundance.... Invest in research and development and you'll make your scientific breakthrough and technological advancement.

When a nation is built on the foundation of:
Integrity(Holiness), Equity(Justice) and Empathy(Love) That nation will prosper even if they don't acknowledge God . Take this values away and that nation will rot from within.(Holiness, Justice and Love is the three attributes of God Character).

advocate666: I believe it is genetic. The black man is merciful, kind, hospitable, etc, thus naive and is open to exploitation and swallows every foreign tale he hears hook, line and sinker. He is very impressionable. The whiteman on the other hand is ruthless in all his doing thus guaranteeing him only two possible outcomes: success or death.

I thought "merciful, kind, hospitable,...ruthless" are expressions of our character and that character is shaped by our belief-system or "disbelief-system". e.g A bad man can become a good man, vice-versa based on a change in conviction and not a fixed gene?

Evil Brain: The reasons why different societies develop at different rates have been well studied and don't have jackshît to do with genetics, religion or culture. Jared Diamond broke it down well in his excellent book, Guns Germs and Steel.

The short version is that the differences are due to geography, climate and the types of plants and animals available for domestication.

Follow the link for more detail.

[url] www.edge.org/3rd_culture/diamond/diamond_p2.html [/url]

I am still studying your link; so far, if you remove "genetics,religion or culture" out of the 'equation', what we are going to have left is a bunch of excuses e.g "The Europeans built massive ship before the Mayans could..."
The European ships were mainly constructed with woods; which was never lacking in the Mayan empire. If for example, a culture believes that a mountain full of iron ore is sacred and should never be approached, how does this belief help rapid technological advancement?

I think a man who lacks adequate material but believes in exploration and discovery will always find a way.

Please keep it rolling.

belabela: History has it that Hebrews were slaves in Africa (Egypt) for over 400 years.

History has it that the great philosophers of Europe ( Plato, Socrates ) got their wisdom from the schools in Kemet (Egypt)

History has it that before the colonization of Africa, Africans built their empires ( Sudan, Cush, Kemet, Oyo, Benin etc). As a matter of fact the advancement in the Benin empire in bronze technology is still a mystery to the British people who stole some bronze carvings from Benin. They still debate to this day how those things were carved in the 19th century.

History has it that the most successful and powerful nation on earth at any particular time was not Isreal. Infact in the vision God showed Nebuchadnezzar ( Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome) were the most powerful nations.

The idea that somehow Jews are always prosperous is misleading. The popularity of the Jews is based on the spread of Christianity and the wide circulation of the bible which reveals God's special love for Israel. Moses saying it as plain as it is admitted that "The LORD did not set his love upon you (Isreal), nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people." Deut. 7:7

Prosperity comes from the Sovereign Lord who gives to whosoever he wishes (not because the person is a Jew or a christian or has paid offerings to a fellow man who claims to be God's tax collector). Even as prosperous as Israel could be the bible records " the poor you will always have among you." Therefore it is safe to say that prosperity is not in a DNA.

There are two parts to prosperity: First GOD, Second GOD blessing the WORK of one's hands. Therefore it can be said GOD and HARDWORK. While hardwork does not necessarily translate into prosperity, Laziness ultimately excludes one from prosperity.

A hardworking nation blessed by God ultimately prospers, be it Israel or Nigeria. Are African countries hardworking? Answer is subject to debate but I will say to a large extent NO. For instance Nigeria has crude oil, exports it and buys petrol from other nations. That sounds like laziness to me. As Pastor Mensah noted in one of his sermons, "The lazy man does not roast his game, but the diligent man prizes his possessions" (Proverbs 12:27). He likened Africa exporting raw materials to a lazy hunter who doesn't roast his game.

To belief you will prosper is good but it won't make you prosper until you WORK towards it. Belevism is like placebo it works in the imaginative not in reality. If prosperity is by belief, then I recon that Nigeria should be one of the most prosperous nations today. Every Sunday millions of Nigeria are told to believe it is their week of prosperity and their thunderous AMEN indicates that many of them actually believe it, however it usually doesn't happen and they need another level of believe the following Sunday to keep on. So in answer to the question I think prosperity is not about belief.


In conclusion, I will like to point out that there is only one race on earth - the human race, but several nations; and the prosperity of a nation has nothing to do with gene or belief but everything to do with GOD and HARDWORK

A splendid analysis I must say. As a christian, I agree with almost all your submission but I have a reservation with your understanding of the word belief. In your conclusion, you stated:

the prosperity of a nation has nothing to do with gene or belief but everything to do with GOD and HARDWORK.

This line above^ is actually self-contradictory because it is a statement of belief in GOD and HARDWORK.

Thanks.

Thank you belabela and Evil Brain for sharing your thoughts. Please keep it rolling.

Allow me to add this quote by the late Chukwuemeka Ojukwu (he was also a historian and a philosopher)to the mix; It will be interesting to know what you guys make of it.

"Over the years I have tried to find at what point the road of evolution of the black man moved away from that taken by the white man. Increasingly I believe the point of diversion can be found in Man's relation to God. The fact is, the black man's God ia a God of retribution; awesome, unapproachable and merciless. The white man's God is God of love, mercy and forgiveness. From there it his not hard to see how the black became inhibited in is confrontation with natural phenomena, while the white felt encouraged to explore and conquer the natural phenomena that surrounded him.

let me give an example. The black man, faced with a strange mountain, quickly turns his back on this terrifying monster, seeks out a calf from his miserable herd and begins the regular sacrifice to the god of the mountain. Very soon the mountain has become sacred and therefore impenetrable. His white counterpart would be fascinated by the spectacle of the mountain, but his reaction would be to climb it, on its summit to dominate the landscape, on its flanks to sow his crops and in its entrails to mine for minerals. The black man in history, considering himself unworthy of God, has tended to leave Creation as it stood, easily satisfied; the white man, considering himself the favourite of God, has through the ages continually questioned Creation, and never hesitated to bend it to his will and advantage.

Where each of these divergent attitudes have led is now very clear: the technological gap, the domination of the world by the white, and the moral enslavement of the black man's mind. Today i think we have come to realise that this bar to our development can and must overcome. But to overcome it we must as a race make fundamental changes in our attitudes, realising that the greater enemy is within ourselves, and that plots and conspiracies against us, if they exist, are but secondary obstacles."

-- Dim Chukwuemeka Odumegwu-Ojukwu (1933 - 2011)

poopli: Black people are the worst race of people.

How do you mean? Poor generalization.Yes we have our share of ethnic cleansing, witchcraft...etc; But we are not responsible for WW1, WW2, Eugenics...etc. The point is every race has its good, bad and ugly; Man tends toward evil by nature...God help us.

black people look like animals,

Poor generalization. If this is what you see when you look at the black people around you then your problem is psychological...probably spiritual.

behave like animals

Whats your opinion on the decadence in the West: Bestiality, school shootings in America, abortion, serial killings...Only God can make a man whole(black or white).

and so undeveloped

We can change it by having the courage to identify the cause of our self-inflicted underdevelopment, taking responsibility, developing a blueprint for advancement and having the discipline to actualize it.

God could have created me white but decided to create me black

...for a purpose. Its your glory to discover it.

If God really created me, then he really made a silly mistake.

I never asked for life and i hate God for creating me, but more especially, i hate God for creating me Black.

I will never forgive God for that.

He can take his stupid life away from me, i don't care and i don't want to live the stupid world he created anymore.

I will not kill myself though, i am stronger than that

But if God created me, then i hate him for creating me.

This is appalling.
Which came first? The chicken or the egg? Low self-esteem leads to depression and depression leads to low self-esteem (even self-hatred).
You 'sound' like someone suffering from a severe case of depression (suicidal). You need to please seek for help before its get too late. I think you're just crying for help without knowing it. This is not funny at all.

Cindy...oh Cindy...all emotional argument and contradictions

Afam4eva: I'm not an atheist but i can't remember any terror in the world ever caused by atheists. Is it not Religious people that are causing most of the problems in the world?

Perhaps you should have "remembered" before posting. Pls click on the link below to educate yourself.
http://conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_Mass_Murder

The Jewish people's successes. A good book to read is "Thou Shalt Prosper" by Rabbi Daniel Lapin. He posits in his book that the reason Jews prosper and are successful is not in their genes but in their training and their religion. Africa was mainly a warring, dog-eat-dog, society with their main emphasis being on control, power, and greed for particular tribes and those alone. They were mainly a warrior culture that warred only to get over on some other tribe. The warring tribes and the outcomes of those wars is what provided the main fodder for the slave trade with many (mainly Arabs) taking part in perpetuating it. Africa is still a hotbed of slavery today (usually their own people) as tribes, countries, etc., vie for power. There has never been much of an emphasis on intellectual pursuits there. Not denigrating anyone but the truth is hard to face sometimes especially when it shows a track record of ways and mind-sets that haven't worked. Only when those of African descent start to take hold of the fact that they are more than capable of intellectual gains will they then change their world. But it will take a huge paradigm shift for that to happen I believe but in order for them to survive they will need to accept that shift eventually.

I found this interesting comment here:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/01/all_my_babies_mamas_reveals_liberals_opinion_of_blacks_comments.html#disqus_thread#ixzz2Iy6uI3wH

Do you agree or disagree with the comment in question? And why? Please lets discuss in the most constructive way possible. Thanks

Former KGB Agent Explains the Brainwashing of America 1980's


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ2fMeer5Mw

Note This is not a conspiracy theory. The name of this former KGB agent is Yuri Alexandrovich Bezmenov,also known as Tomas David Schuman; 1939 – 1993.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov

^ Its a free world; you're free to explode if you want. You don't have to comment if you have nothing of worth to contribute.

Atheist:-D:
Anybody can post in the religion section.

Atheists and communism are 2 different things. Communism is a political and sociological system.

Atheists can be capitalist, communist or any other political setup.

wiegraf: I did, the question still stands. Very much so. Do you know what atheism means?

Every Philosophy has its political, economic, social implications; and Communism is a product of which? Please don't derail this thread. The highlighted below is a confirmation of what this post is about:
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Mr_Anony: I don't know but perhaps you should ask these guys:

"Communism begins where atheism begins" - Karl Marx

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism." - Vladmir Lenin

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within." - Josef Stalin