₦airaland Forum

Steep:
1 John said anyone born of God sinneth not simply because the seed of God is in him. Meaning a saved person cannot continue living a life of sin and lose his salvation because of it.
Hebrews 6:4-6 is about someone who continue in unbelief even after receiving enlightenment.
Mathew 24:13 Jesus described those who endure to the end are those who will be saved. Guess what, 1 John identifies the overcomer as those born of God. Anyone who is born of God will not live in sin and is already an overcomer hence will endure to the end.
What of 1 Peter 2vv 20 warning against backsliding?
Again this is actually a warning a gains false prophets and false believers.

2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Note they recieve the holy commandment but turned away
They know the way of righteousness but the next verse finally proved they weren't saved.

Note a washed sow still remains a sow, there is no change.
Compare that with someone who is born again, who has undergone a real spiritual change from the carnal nature into a new nature (If any man be in christ he is a new creature).
However in 2 Peter 2, the dog remains the dog and the sow remains the sow even after enlightenment meaning this individual(s) were never saved.

Fallacy and Of Point. From the beginning to the end. All you did was use a round peg and force it into a square hole.

gohf:
Simple answers:
Is salvation permeant? Yes Salvation is permanent it is eternal life, nothing can end it or take you away from it. That's what it means to be saved from eternal death and destruction.

God can't save someone and then lose them.

Why does scripture warn about falling away if salvation is eternal? Because if anyone falls away they won't receive eternal life.

But if it can be lost, does that mean salvation depends on human effort? Salvation cannot be lost, because God is the one rewarding salvation to the good and destruction to the wicked through Jesus Christ.

Since you say salvation is permanent then what happens to a person who is saved as you say yet he does not receive eternal life?

Where would such person headed to since he did not get eternal life?

MaxInDHouse:
Christians are people following Jesus in thoughts,words and actions so Judas Iscariot qualified to be called a Christian.

There was a time all other disciples left Jesus and never thought of following him again but Judas stood with his other friends on Jesus' side! John 6:66-68

Judas Iscariot lost out because he failed to endure to the endure to the end of his earthly ministry...

You obviously have never heard of "moles" and double agents.

Thankgod89:
This has been one of the biggest theological debates in Christianity, with both sides presenting strong biblical arguments. But what always comes to my mind is this: If someone "falls away," were they ever truly saved (1 John 2:19), or did they genuinely have salvation and later reject it?

1 John 2:19 – "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

I think one can truly be saved but later choose to reject their faith and turn away from Christ. While salvation is a gift from God, He does not force anyone to remain in it. Just as one can freely accept Christ, they can also walk away through persistent unbelief or rebellion. This is why the Bible repeatedly warns about falling away (Hebrews 6:4-6, 2 Peter 2:20-22).

Exactly.

delkuf:
I only believe that it is a man after he is saved by believing in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross and that man is given eternal life that can't lose his salvation. But if a man only believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus and do not receive eternal life, he may lose his salvation

How is a man saved and when is he saved? Please use the case of the man who killed the teenager to illustrate as he right now stands guilty as charged, though a just court will still go through trial to ensure that he is found guilty under Law.

So how can he be saved and when can you say that he is saved?

Sirmwill:
There is still another light to this

A greater light

Care to elucidate?

Speaklove:
After Cain killed Abel is brother God called him to court saying " Cain where is your brother Abel ?."
And Cain replied " am I my brother's keeper ?"

Cain's response suggested he was about to Deny or lie about the murder he had committed.
one of the reasons he had wanted to do so was that :
he thought no one knew about the murder because only he and Abel were on the field ; so he had the chance to lie since there was no witness ;he had done it in secret .

But to the surprise of Cain ; God said to him
" behold the blood of your brother cries out to me from the ground which has received his blood ."

So God was educating Cain about how the spiritual realm works .

For example:
If you have a case in court you might be required to present an evidence or a witness in order to win the case or prove a point .

TYPES OF WITNESSES :
(1)
In the human court (physical realm) you need an eye witness - somebody present while an event is taken place ;or who saw the event while it took place .

(2)
Secondly you might need an expert witnesses .
The testimony of somebody who is an expert in a area that concerns the case at hand who can provide the court with information that could help discern or retrieve evidence or prove a point .

(3)
Thirdly you might need evidences (or exhibit) like documents , materials , signs ,finger prints , etcetera . In the human court to prove a point or even win the case .

( The first time I heard of the usage of the first and second witnesses was from a certain preacher called "apostle arome osayi ".

Now Cain had thought since no one was present when he killed Abel then he had the chance to deny perpetrating the act .
There was no eye witness nor was there an expert witness .

But to his uttermost surprise God made an announcement of two witnesses Cain never thought had the faculty to see or to hear or to speak -the blood of abel, and the ground .

God said to him " the blood of your brother cries out from the ground .

The blood of abel cries out because although Abel had died and his body has been immobilized yet his blood would speak because there is life in the blood .

It is written
"The blood of Jesus speak better things than the blood of Abel ."
So blood can speak spiritually.

The second witness was the ground .
The ground has the capacity to keep secrets.
It has the ability to receive and give out things .

For example :
If You cast a seed to the ground it will gives back grains .

It is written :
"Except a corn of wheat falls to the ground its abide alone but if it falls into the ground and die ,it produces much grains."

The ground also has life ( spiritually )
So it has the capacity to keep and give back things .
Eg.
The dead are kept in the ground and at the rapture or resurrection it shall give them back .

Cain killed his brother and thought that was the end.
After all Adam and Eve were still alive so even if Abel's body was found he could deny knowing a thing about it
(Adam and Eve could also be suspects).

But he was unaware that the blood of Abel and the ground were witnesses to his crime .

Likewise today !
many people engage secretly in masturbations ,sexual immorality , diabolic activities like burying something in the ground , like using a certain spiritual or diabolic substance to bath .etcetera .
And many of them thought they had done those things in secret and after God no one knows except them .

But some of these people might not be aware that even as God knows all the secret sins of men he does not judge except as he has provided an evidence or witness that proves the sin to that person .

God knew very well that Cain killed Abel but he did not confront him with mere knowledge but provided evidence that Cain could attest to before judging him .

Likewise you should know that those things you are doing in secret are not just secret between you and God alone , but there are other witnesses that you might not even be aware of .
The day is a witness : each day is spiritually rapped up like a paper and can be brought out and be played before you very eyes again like a recorded movie .

LIST OF SOME WITNESSES :

The days are witnesses .
The sun is a witness .
The air can bear witness .
darkness it self is can provide witness .
It hides secret in the eyes of men but it is an illuminator of secret things in the eyes of God ...

I love the fact that you have just reviewed the case through the Eyes of Law.

And now you can see how God convicts and the many ways that they can be found guilty.

delkuf:
Because of time, I will go straight to the point.
When you give you life to Christ, you are given a everlasting life. A life that translates us to heaven...
But the problem is that we are still here on earth. We didn't leave the earth and go to heaven immediately. We still leave in this world of the devil and evil. How do we live through this world as a child of God that has been given everlasting life. A record was made in heaven by the Father, the son and the Holy Ghost(1 John 5:7) that anyone that believe on the Lord Jesus, will eternal life. So eternal life is the life of the Holy Spirit. A life that enable us to live here on earth with power over the devil and this world. A life that give us dominion. You will live a ordinary life even though you are saved until you have eternal life. You may have your life to Christ. You may believe in the Lord Jesus and have everlasting life and still be powerless. It is when you have the Holy Spirit become your life that you will have dominion over the devil and this world. Romans 8:10 says, And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of righteousness. It is only when the spirit becomes your life that he quicken your mortal bodies(Verse 11). It is then that the Holy Spirit will give life to your body. He will give you the abundant life the Lord Jesus talks about in John 10:10. Then you live free over the devil.


So everlasting life comes when we believe in the Lord Jesus and give our lives to him. We are saved with everlasting life. We are guarantee of heaven. But we still here on earth. So the the power and life we need to live through this life so that we don't lose the everlasting life given to us, is eternal life. EVERLASTING LIFE THE LIFE OF HEAVEN WHILE ETERNAL LIFE THE LIFE OF EARTH. Thanks I will stop here for now

This is rubbish!

Man already has eternal life because God has made man's spirit, eternal as proven by God calling Lazarus and the girl back to life on earth by calling their names.

And the Bible already shows us that there are 2 eternal lifes

1) Eternal life of Damnation dwelling in hellfire and

2) Eternal Life of Goodness dwelling in the new heaven and earth

And Jesus was obviously referring to Eternal Life 2) as the bible already hinted since Psalms.

So, what you are saying is far from correct.

delkuf:
sorry but salvation is not eternal life. Salvation is eternal or everlasting but not eternal life

If you have something eg a car or house or job, if you take care of it, it would be eternal.

If you don't, you will lose it. Eg Saul, Esau, Solomon etc

delkuf:
I only believe that it is a man after he is saved by believing in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross and that man is given eternal life that can't lose his salvation. But if a man only believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus and do not receive eternal life, he may lose his salvation

See how you are confusing yourself.

You unequivocally stated on your other thread that

"i am telling you that for you to save you must believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross. And after that you are justified from all your sins."

Now, you are recanting adding "and that man is given eternal life".

If a person is saved does it not automatically mean that they have eternal life?

Cc Sirmwell

delkuf:
I only believe that it is a man after he is saved by believing in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross and that man is given eternal life that can't lose his salvation. But if a man only believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus and do not receive eternal life, he may lose his salvation

See how you are confusing yourself.

You unequivocally stated on your other thread that

"i am telling you that for you to save you must believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross. And after that you are justified from all your sins."

Now, you are recanting adding "and that man is given eternal life".

If a person is saved does it not automatically mean that they have eternal life?

Sirmwill:
Take a very critical example of the people that Jesus healed

They really got healed by their belief. Not that they worked for it.

Then who gives the power to "go and sin no more?" It's still Jesus

And he spoke this to some specific people who just believed in him... Yes or No?
Do you think,they would ever have the ability or any slightest urge to sin anymore after those words Jesus spoke to them? Capital NO

Even The power to not sin anymore is embedded in believing.
God himself said he would remove the heart of stone and replace it with the heart of flesh.

Can we actually be saved by we stopping sin consciously by ourselves.Who has the power over sin?Is it not Jesus?

We really don't need to stress further bruvs 🙃🙂
gohf Truthseeker10 MaxinDHouse StillDtruth

Since when did healing mean salvation?

Even criminals are given healing before they are taking to court for trial.

So, don't join the issues. No one said work guarantees salvation but what is said is that Faith + Work = Salvation.

Namaster pity lover boys Na.

Op, you are in order

orisa37:
TRUMP HASN'T REACHED JUDAS ISCARIOT AND WILL NEVER REACH THAT STANDARD.
BUT ELON MUSK HAS SUCCEEDED BEYOND THE ANTI CHRIST. HE IS CONSTANTLY ATTACKING THE STARS.

Yes!

Elon is behaving like the Beast's false prophet.

Divinerace:
If you call trump anti-christ what will you call Barack obama

Satan's agent.

Trump is doing like what we expect antiChrists may do

erico2k2:
yes and some others.

Ok. I will pay more attention when reading your threads.

erico2k2:
Yes oh, used brake Pad, used spark plugs, even used fan belt ,Yeh nothing wrng with that,ie temp fix to get you going not for long term.
Cars are getting complicated ,soon roadside will be gone like the days of Radio mechanics.

Wow.

erico2k2:
I will document it, I always do with these DIYs
few I did
https://www.nairaland.com/7733981/replacement-front-brakepad-bmw320d-f90

Oh, you were the one who did this thread? Okay.

If not that I no get power to turn bolts and man don dey old, I would have loved DIY-ing.

But I do it vicariously through my mechanic

erico2k2:
Well buying power of Nigerians is weak, no money, to some that car you consider dead is a prayer point to some other family.
I always come with my own oil to do servicing, I have been to a place B4 in my village where a guy use one oil to service all car lol or people buy used parts to service mechanical parts which are prone to wear an tear, ie used brake pads.

Used brake pads? Well village people just have to manage. But I do love their mechanical problem solving skills ooo and the cheap easy way it is solved.

erico2k2:
The bolded bit cracked me up, Im still laughing

That is how they measure fuel here.

erico2k2:
And yes there are cars with no dip stick,I have a range rover in PH I use when Im in Nigeria, no dip stick, all range rovers from 2012 do not have dip sticks,
I will tell you few expirience cos expirience they say is the best teacher.I had a nasty accident caused by a container truck, damaged car badly, costN15m plus to fix, trailer o wner paid. Now the under cariage damage was not noticed B4 I came bck to work, The steering rack cracked at mount point and the Gear box heat xcahnger got damaged.SO now there is oil in my radiator seen at the expansion tank. Now water is mixing with oil somewhere, Changed oil,it was fine no water inside, checked gear box full of milky cream, check heat exchanger smashed.SO I called a guy about, to take a foto so I can buy the original one from here, he then said Oga we fit bypass am, remove that thing, E nor get anything wey E dey do. This heat exchanger my friend is why your gear box got fried cos it cools the gear oil vie xchanging heat with water in a sealed environment, however its Aluminium if it gets damaged internally, water mix with gear oil. Car is in limp mode to protect the gear box, so Im fixing that when I return,Im doing it myself.

Wow. Thank God you are ok.

I Wish I could watch you fixing it.

delkuf:
When the Lord Jesus appeared to his disciples, was it after ascended or the Father. Because he told Mary, I have not ascended to my Father and you Father and your God and my God. So after the Lord Jesus told Mary this, did he ascend to the Father in heaven or he went and show himself to the disciples

Maybe He did!

May be He did not!

We would never know since we were not there.

And secondly, as The LORD would Say, how is this of any profit to you?

erico2k2:
In theory it is, Speaking from Engineering point of view, cars are manufactured to have the best Aero dynamic super structures which form part of the chassis, once this is dented, it alters the aerodynamics of the car. Some people buy cars imported and they for every try to do wheel alignment and tyre balancing for the rest of the life of the car. Or their Gear box vibrates or Engine mounts always tear etc..
In the west there is a Sindarin Nigeria unfortunately we don't, This is why cars out of nowhere kill people on motion.

This is where you see that Nigerians actually have a funny system. If the car is "new" it is worthy of travelling but after 1 or maybe 2 years, it has become a city only car. And after that, it goes for sale to another person who inherits the others problems. And then after he too has rocked it whatever that means, the car is going for scraps or kabu kabu.

And I see a lot of people only change engine oils during Christmas season when they want to travel, so you won't even recognise 5:30 oil when you see after my people have finished dealing milking it's gold.

erico2k2:
Fair enough not an average car user, I am an Engineer but not on cars so,I am not afraid to get my hand dirty. Everything inside a car is put for a reason. If you understand why the thermostat is put in a car you will run back to replace yours if you have taken it out. If I may ask, do you know the function of a thermostat in a car?
As per the weight of oils, the manufacturers know the size of fluid and lubricant bore so they instruct the users on the weight of oils. Cars with no Engine oil dip stick which you can only check level electronically are worse, wrong oil wont be picked by the level sensor then you are in panic mode. Location has min or nothing to do with how a car performs. The weather in frisco or Texas can be hotter than the north of Nigeria. even Alaska. Those bypass you see people do is temporally until the problem is fixed, there is a thing called air/fuel trim ration, aka My car dey chop fuel.

Since I burnt out my transmission in my Audi 80 when I was travelling to Lagos, i have learnt to READ.

So I know how a thermostat works and I even put it in hot water myself to see it work.

I do not know what oil weight is but I know degradation takes place when oil works in an engine and changes colour from gold to brown. And in excess use, to coal tar black.

You mean car there is a car with no dipstick? Well, we Nigerians know the importance of buying cars that have their mechanics down the street.

Then the only time Nigerians care about fuel ratio is when they spent N10,000 fuel and it finished when they only went from Garki to Nyanya and back twice and the fuel light shows.

erico2k2:
AHah this is funny, dont you know,60% of cars sold in Nigeria are insurance write offs? let me make it easy for you, any car with a structurer damage is a write off, they sell them to Africans in good faith as for parts but of cos we fix them and resell them. A car with damage to any of the chassis part is a write off.Why do you think people advocate for VIN check go to the copart website or iaaa website and see what's on auction

Insurance write off does not mean mechanical write off as Nigerians have proven.I am sure that if not for profits from continuous sale and the need to control the world, car manufacturers would have come to build bases here in Nigeria in joy of seeing their insurance write offs being put back together and joyfully driven off, traveling from Lagos to Abuja.

RichIgboBoy:
lol, Nigerians won’t learn, even in USA some of them revert to 20w50 during summer and on high mileage vehicles above 100k miles

I believe it's because of the mentality of using a car for a few years hence they don't care

erico2k2:
I do not under estimate Nigerians as mechanics, however they know the right thing but the vast majority chose do work with what they have. However the few who do and know the right way are deemed too expensive. How many of you will take their cars to radautoworks on here or top cars in PH. You are here talking about cars and you know next to nothing about cars, all your utterance are that from a palm wine bar.I have gone fru your post or created thread by you all got to do with religion, you do not have on thread on the Auto section but here you are embarrassing yourself. You who do not even know the year your car was manufactured or your Engine capacity all of a sudden you speak for all Nigerians.
You are here talking about Overheating, I suspect you are calling 2015 car brand new in Nigeria , that is 10 years OLD. And Nigerians magic the odometer. Let me tell you, vast majority of the newer cars have Electronic thermostats, so tell me how are you going to bypass that Bro if ur degree or interest is in Religion stick to it, don't delve into Engineering and you know next to nothing about.

I speak as an ordinary Nigerian car user and most here are exactly like me. And
no where did I claim expertise on car mechanics. So my talk is from one car user to another, as we do when we meet on the roads or in the mechanic workshop.

And the discussion here is about car users experiences, which I am just putting down mine which I did very deliberately after I had read the arguments for and against the idea.

So, I am only confidently standing by and on this idea because I have directly confirmed with my own vehicles what those who said that 50:20 is acceptable.

And this argument has been there since 2002 when people were looking for 5:30. And so your favourite toys of today would still join our fond memory collections of 504s, vboots, 190s, Santana of today, so, this is not a point.

erico2k2:
You know some people cars are already write offs B$ it lands the shores of Nigeria and they call it new cars, add 12 years to the so called new car, that car has already re-incarnated in Europe.

Clearly you are over exaggerating. A write off car is sold for spare parts. It's obvious that you are not a Nigerian and if you were, you have been colonized

erico2k2:
There loads of people here who I have also met i n person who go by manufacturers specification, but ofcos if your car is 21 years Old I'm sure them lot do not give a toss. How does my statement translate into colonialism of did you just hear about that English 1st time?
Instead of you throwing ur dummy otta the prawn improvement your arguments. make sense

From your tone, it was clear that you were saying that everyone should brainlessly follow the manufacturer's specifications simply because the manufacturer said so.

Whereas, every vehicle which has come to Nigeria always developed a problem a few months after it has started running in Nigerian roads as lots of people have experienced when they travelled with their new vehicles.

And funny how the manufacturers solution does not work eg the over heating issue which many new car owners always experience after the whatever fails and bypass is the Nigerian brilliant solution which people have gone on for years enjoying their vehicles and never experiencing the overheating issue.

I feel you under estimate our Nigerian automobile products as you hang on to oyibo superiority. And that is what colonialism means for our automobile boys and products are actually doing a good job.

erico2k2:
The wear and tear of Engines and the change of sounds is hard to detect cos it occurs daily and you wont know when the engine changes sound. I experienced this with the car I bought for my Dad.

Yet I detected the difference and 12years after I am still waiting for the damage whereas my vehicles still bring out water and steam.

Mechanic shops prove that even a car using 5:30 oil still has engine troubles, so your talk is still falled.

erico2k2:
when will this sink into car users head that they should stick to what the car manufacturer stated as class of oils to be used.

Is there any car user that is putting water instead of fuel into their fuel tanks?

If Nigerians were to go by manufacturer specification many vehicles would not be on the road. So this is just you showing that you are still suffering the effects of colonialism.

Is it only unforgiveness? Are they not also guilty of all the other unrighteousnesses eg malice, hatred for brethren, racism, jealousy and competition, adultery, Lying and cheating, fornication and prostitution, wickedness and stealing?

Is there anything that you have which you never lost?

Or if you are careless, you would not lose?

Anyone who says this, is a prophet of Satan.

And all those who believed them all later fell and became what people call atheists. Like this guy called Delkuf he is now seeing that God has left him and now he is going berserk, desperately trying to hang on but unfortunately for them God has made that Way not returnable and all of them fall until they become misery full and living in despair just like atheists

gard9ner:
Some believe that once saved, always saved...