₦airaland Forum

malvisguy212: Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto
her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee,
and the power of the Highest shall
overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be
called the Son of God. It was no man who decided to call Jesus
the Son of God, it was God Himself who
called him His Son. God confirmed the
message of this angel in:
Matthew 3:16-17
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo,
the heavens were opened unto him, and
he saw the Spirit of God descending like a
dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is
my beloved Son, in whom I am well
pleased. But the Devil was not happy with the
development, which provides salvation to
mankind and depopulates the kingdom of
Satan. He brought his message by
appointing his prophet from the descent
of Ishmael who God did not have covenant of prophethood with to oppose
the work of salvation done by Jesus. He
raised the Quran against the Bible.

Who were Luke and Mathew that made those statements?

Where did they get those statements from?

Were those statements revealed to them by God?

So, he was even called the son of God before his birth. What is the authenticity of this God's sonship?

Please, i'll like to learn.

dademola: 1. david moyes signed a 6yr contract-he didnt take the job on a temporary basis! U shudnt be comparing him to a RDM that was used as a stop-gap after AVB was fired! 2. Like i pointed out earlier; when most newly appointed managers decide to fire the backroom staff they meet on ground, it is usually done so as to accommodate the "tried and trusted" guys they are used to. The "tried and trusted" as used in this context, means that the incoming manager has achieved some form of remarkable success with these guys! Phil neville?? 3. Nobody is saying moyes shud work with phelan and co forever- the idea is for them to aid the transition process( which was never going to be easy). After the 1st season, he cld then take stock of the situation, and decide if he wants to continue working with them or not! It's very annoying when he says he's still getting to knw the players, when there were pple who clda easily helped him out!

My point also is that the decision is his and his decision was that he doesn't want to work with them whether for short or long term. This will not bring about any unhealthy rivalry which may come up between him and the former backroom staff which may now give him some excuses for his failures. There will definitely be conflict because he will also have his own idea of he wants to shape his team which may be different from what they have. Coaches have different ways of building their teams.

As it is right now, he doesn't have any alibi. If he fails then he and his backroom staff takes the blame with no tenable excuse.

I am done with this. These are all my personal opinions. Different people with different opinions.

Oghos1: ^^^
Finally sum1 whose opinion is nt being guided by unnecessary hate.
How refreshing

Mine is that i love all Utd players but the moment you cannot give out the kind of performance that merit you putting on our jersey then you should just go to other clubs where such performance will be appreciated. We have some average players whom we have been expecting to step up their game but they are not. That is the reason why Utd don't usually go for big time players.

You can see this where our net transfers over some years is being compared to Stoke and Aston villa. Adequate replacement of quality players have been the major problem we have been having for some years now. That is why Giggs is still playing for us at 40. SAF didn't retire him before he retired. So also we are seeing that with DM. He must be performing better than all the younger players. Like i said, he is the one seeing them on daily basis, we are not.

dademola: most of the managers u are talking about, are managers with some form of pedigree, so it can be argued that they shud be allowed have their "tried and trusted" guys around them!! Last time i checked moyes' Resume, i didnt see any achievment that shud warrant him being granted such a luxury!

I do not support the idea of him retaining SAF's backroom staffs. What do you think will be happening now if he retained them and there are all these problems? There will definitely be coaches crisis and they will be pointing accusing fingers at one another. He (DM) may have his own idea while they too will want to be controlling with the mind that they have been there before him. This will create conflict among them. Now they will be saying he's not listening to advice while he'll be saying they didn't give him free hand to select. That ego conflict will surely happen.

It is better the way he has brought his own backroom staff. If he is going to sink or swim, he will do that with his backroom staff with no excuse.

Please, what pedigree did RDM had before taking Chelsea to win Champions league and FA cup in just three months after his appointment as care taker manager of Chelsea? You need to lecture me on that.

Also, do you know that he had to bring in his former Chelsea team mate Eddie Newton to work as his assistant?

coogar: david moyes is the root cause of all the problems you listed here. he's the one with the controllers - the players are just the players. will you blame the players on your FIFA 14 because you got whooped by the computer? hell no.

I will give the players the majority of the blames.

Is he the one telling them to be making individual errors even at the beginning of the season when Vidic was making defensive errors in ball clearance?

Is he the one who told Cleverley not to raise his game to the form he was at the beginning of 2011/12 season before he sustained a ligament damage in the match against Bolton? Unless you want to tell me he has raised his game up to that level.

Is he also the one responsible for Valencia's decline in form since last season? Valencia haven't been able to replicate his form of 2011/12. He is just getting worse by the week. Wing play has been the tradition of Man Utd. In the days of Lee Sharpe and Andrei Kanchelskis to Ryan Giggs and David Beckham; from the great Cristiano Ronaldo, Valencia was able to give us quality crosses in 2011/12 which made him win Manchester United Players' Player of the Year.
Do you know that Utd have 423 of the 533 crosses whipped in failed to find their target (a Premier League high). I am sure 50% of those crosses belongs to Valencia. If half of those crosses have met their targets. we wouldn't be where we are right now.

Also, so many players making individual errors and getting sent off unnecessarily.

coogar: moyes has zero man management qualities.....he's divided the squad into two. he overuses the first group & he's frozen the second group out. the first group are fatigued & getting injured or tired, the second group are now rusty with no confidence.

If he had zero man management qualities as you have said, then he would have had crisis with his players at Everton. It would have been better if you could mention those players he had overused and who he was supposed to have used at any particular game because out of 29 matches played so far this season, no single player have played more than 22/23 matches except maybe De Gea.

He is the one at the training ground with these players and he sees them everyday and we don't. I don't believe he'll see a player who is performing in training and deliberately froze him out. At this moment if he has such a player with him he'll definitely use such a player because he has only bought only one player who is even out injured.

He has virtually given nearly all the players opportunities to show what they have got to offer but most of them are not stepping up except some few ones. Cleverley was meant to replace Scholes but he hasn't given up to 30% of what Scholes gave us when he was his age.

coogar: age & injury are no excuses if moyes had simply used fergie's blueprint. fergie was rotating rio, fergie gave RVP a special training regime that made him complete 38 league games last season. injury to players is a direct outcome of the pre-historic training regime of david moyes!

The most reliable midfielder we have right now is almost 32 1/2years old. He is the only one who can pass and drive the ball forward on a regular basis. How many of our rivals has a 32 1/2yrs old running the show for them from the midfield? Once he's out we face problem.

I could remember in 2009/10 when we were very unlucky with injuries. That was part of the reasons why we lost the trophy to Chelsea. We were fielding Carrick and Fletcher as center backs in matches in the first part of the season. SAF must have given those players the same pre-historic training regime. Also, is it not the same training he was giving to Everton players? Have we had a stable team this season? It is out of what he has on ground that he will select.

We’ve missed Phil Jones, Robin van Persie, Michael Carrick, Nani, Nemanja Vidic, Wayne Rooney, Rafael and Darren Fletcher in most part of the season. If our rivals can miss seven to eight of their important players and still maintain their respective positions on the league table then i'll accept. if City can miss Kompany, Toure, Fernandinho, Agüero, Silva and Negredo; Chelsea - Terry, Cahill, Lampard, Ramires, Oscar, Mata and Hazard for six to eight weeks.

I dunno that it has been established that injuries to key players at Arsenal has contributed their inability to win trophy.

coogar: moyes is why we are losing games like it's out of fashion. guess what? he still lies to the camera the players are doing well. he's not a leader of men. tactically, he's a disgrace! after sunderland went 2 goals up, he should have played all his attacking options & grab a draw or win - his first sub was fletcher. hernandez was brought on like the 85th minute. how do you explain such tactical daftness?

I am not exonerating him totally but the players must take large chunk of the blames. He may have his problem with substitutions just like SAF had in the past. Substitution is like a gamble it may work it may not a la Fabio. When SAF was still the manager, a lot of forum member criticized his substitutions and team lists. Some even go to the extent of abusing his asst Phelan. We can not all be satisfied.

The problem we are having right now has been there since about 3 to 4 years now. If not why did SAF had to bring Scholes out of retirement when he saw that City would run away with the trophy? That was the pointer to the problem we have now.

Don't even mention last season because we didn't have this kind of injury crisis then. Also, RVP was injury free, he solely won the trophy for us.

Man Utd problems are

1. The players must take highest proportion of the blame because those players we believe would step up their games are really doing nothing.
2. Injuries to key players are not really helping matters as well.
3. Age is catching up with some players as well.
4. Players are making too many individual errors.

I am not expecting much from this squad this season. The only target for me is top 4. Then there should be quality reinforcement in the summer for us to move on.

elampiro, hands up and keep quiet. Anything you say shall be used against you in the court of Nairaland.

elampiro: There is a dozen and one ways I can go about this argument, but I just want to keep it simple and try and avoid too much argument as the season is about to start.

The only tree because his fellow striker could not support him with goals, thereby allowing defenders, wingers and midfield players to push for goals thereby exposing the rear.


2011/2012: Somebody that scored over 20 goals had already done enough. When RVP and Berbatov went dry, Rooney supported them with goals.

2009/10: Why won't him be injured when he was carrying a mighty load that season. The support was very weak. We lost Ronaldo, Tevez and Hargreaves and it wasn't so easy.

Was Rooney the only player on the pitch? Rooney is more likely to score against the big teams more than any of our players. In the match against Man City, how many times did we get into their box? No thanks to the men at the middle of the park.

.......................................
How our strikers helped one another.

2012/13
RVP led the attack: He scored 25 assisted 8.

Wayne Rooney scored 12 goals and assisted 10
Chicharito scored 10 assisted 3

Rooney helped with 22 goals to the team success. Assisted his co strikers with 10 goals in the season.

...................................................
[b]2011/12
Lead striker: Wayne Rooney 26 goals, 5 assists.

Support striker: Berbatov scored 7 assisted 0
Chicharito scored 10 assisted 2.
Welbeck scored 9 assisted 4

Three other 3 strikers could only come up with 6 assist while supporting. This means defenders,midfield players and wingers will have to push forward to help search for goals while leaving the defence exposed.

If the assistant strikers have done better in assisting for goals, the league should have been won.

.........................................

2010/11
Berbatov lead the attack: scored 21 and assisted 4.

Wayne Rooney scored 11 assisted 11
Chicharito scored 13 assisted 1.

This means Rooney contributed 22 goals to the league success playing behind the strikers. Rooney again helped his fellow strikers with 11 assists.

.........................................
2009/10
Rooney led: Wayne Rooney scored 26 assisted 3
Berbatov scored 12 assisted 5.

Berbatov could only come up with 5 assistS all season. If he had done better more goals should have been scored to win the league. So Rooney only got 5 assist from his partner.



[/b]

How time flies. This was elampiro some months back about Rooney as the lead striker in 2011/12. But now things have changed. He is now singing another tune about Rooney's position in the team in that same year.

This has shown that elampiro knows nothing about football other than to be following what bloggers write about football analysis.

elampiro: Some charts......

Ahahaha! Is this not the same Zonal Marking site where someone brought out a chart sometimes ago to prove to you that Hargo played from the right side of the midfield in 2008 Champions league final against Chelsea to reduce Ashley Cole's threat rather than Cole and Lampard as you believed?

When you discredited the interpretation of the chart then, how do you now want anybody on this forum to rely on your interpretation of these charts. Or what has changed since between then and now?

This was your comment on the chart that was posted then:

elampiro: Exactly the way you want to see it.

There are different analysis for the two chart. The creator of the chart sees the first one as a pure 4-3-3. Go and read from the source. The second was analysed as 4-2-1-3. Hagreaves was meant to stop Ashley Cole and Lampard in that one off formation of 2007/2008 UCL final.

All these doesn't change the fact that Rooney was the lead striker in 2011/12.

Happy New Year to you all forum members. GGMU

montelik: DAMN see pages and pages of epistles.

@ tess 1 welcome to our raucous thread. Happy new year to all. May be a fruitful one for us all.

I wish u the same bro. I love this thread sooooooooooo much.

elampiro: The article says nothing. Just general statements which I read a zillion years ago. You and Coogar have not brought any data. You brought a chart when Welbeck was 9 and Rooney was 10 in same match they played.

Rooney was played very deep in 2011/12. He also played in RM, CM too.

Chicha and Welbeck were 9. Chicjha alone had 16 matches and Welbeck 20. They might have a few in beween.

By this weekend, I will argue this matter better. Even if it means taking one match at a time over all 38 matches.

If you don't believe the article i posted, why should i believe yours. As far as i am concerned, those four articles have cancelled each order out. I even believe the one i posted the more because it aligned with the facts that are on ground. So your must be a dubious article.

So you want to tell me that you didn't see where it was written that the most used formation in that season was 4-4-2 and it was used 31 times out of 38 league matches. You need to go and get a pair of glasses to be able to read properly. Or is it that you were dazed by those facts?

I don't even have that time to continue an argument that is done and dusted.

I rest my case.

coogar: yes, it did.
the article generally summarised the difference in rooney's position. you need to learn the difference between CF/SS & AM. I think your problem is you dunno the difference between SS & AM.

Rooney has even played as no 9 in this season but elampiro may dispute this as well.

elampiro: Learn to bow out when u see a superior argument.
In that article did you not see Rooney was quoted? I read it them in many media.

Rooney played number 10 in 2011/12. Then a little in midfield (CM and RM). Welbeck did not play behind Rooney.

Lol! Where is the superior argument? The article and Rooney's quote have already countered all the articles you posted. What remains to be countered are the facts/records presented by Coogar and I. And that is the truth. When there are facts/records, they will always remain the true source(s) of information. You need to go to the Courts and see where facts/records supersede oral evidence.

I have been a keen reader of all that members discuss here since the past six or seven months but didn't just have the time to register and contribute. I have read a lot of articles posted by elampiro in order to tell us how 'important' Rooney is to United. Also about De Gea and recently about "converting' Jones into a midfielder. I didn't just have the time all this while.

coogar: this boy go kill elampiro today.

tess_1, when did you start supporting united? you seem very intelligent about the tactical side of football.



do we need any further evidence to substantiate rooney was an arrowhead in 11/12?

Way back in the early 90s

elampiro: Wayne Rooney: I love playing midfield but draw the line at right-back

Massimo Marioni Monday 21 Nov 2011 3:53 pm ⁠

Wayne Rooney insists he’s embracing his new role in central midfielder, and is happy to play anywhere for Manchester United – as long as it’s not right-back.

Middle of the action: Rooney (Picture: AP)

The 26-year-old has been deployed in a deeper position by Sir Alex Ferguson in recent weeks, presumably in a bid to fill the creative void left by Paul Scholes ’ retirement in the summer.

But Rooney suggests that even though he’s loving his new lease of life in the centre of the park, there is a limit to where he’s willing to perform.

‘I love it. I don’t care where I play. I’m just happy to be on the pitch, I’ll play anywhere.

‘Well, probably not right-back, no. But midfield is a role where you can get on the ball and influence the game a bit more.’

Rooney is likely to continue in the unfamiliar role for United’s Champions League clash against Benfica on Tuesday, and will be hoping to add to his three goals in the completion, despite not having found the net in the Premier League for two months.

http://metro.co.uk/2011/11/21/wayne-rooney-i-love-playing-midfield-for-manchester-united-but-i-draw-the-line-at-right-back-227524/

Ahaha! You didn't disappoint me a bit. I knew this is where you are heading to when you said you don't need any facts/records to buttress your point.

I want you to juxtapose what you posted with this:

Wayne Rooney: Man Utd striker 'didn't want to play in midfield'

Wayne Rooney says he considered his future at Manchester United last summer because he was played out of position by former manager Sir Alex Ferguson.

The England striker, 27, was linked with a move to Chelsea, but has scored five goals for the Old Trafford club this term under new boss David Moyes.

"I got told to play in midfield and I didn't want to," said Rooney.

"I just think there had to come a point when, for my own career, I had to be a bit selfish really."

Rooney, speaking for the first time about his reasons for considering his future, says his performances last season were affected by not playing in "my position".

He was subsequently dropped by Ferguson for the second leg of United's Champions League quarter-final against Real Madrid, which prompted questions about his future during the summer - and attracted two bids from Chelsea.

"Everyone at the club knew where I wanted to play and I think that's why I was disappointed," said Rooney, who has scored 36 goals in 84 games for England.

"I actually felt when I played in midfield I did OK, but I didn't want to play there. I've had no problem in the past playing out of position. But I felt I deserved the right to play in my position and that wasn't happening.

"I think, naturally, I was a bit disappointed and maybe that affected some of the games I played. I know myself that last year wasn't my best season but there were times when I was playing in different positions.

"I didn't feel I got a consistent run of games up front. Sometimes when you're not playing in one position all the time it's difficult to adapt."

Under Moyes - the manager who gave him his professional debut at Everton - Rooney has been a regular starter up front this season, alongside Robin van Persie.

"David Moyes has come in, he's playing me up front and I'm enjoying it," added Rooney. "I'm not saying I wouldn't [go into midfield] for instance if it was the last 10 to 15 minutes of a game, if we were holding on a bit and I got asked to drop to the left, or drop back, to help see out the game.

"I'd always go in and try to help the team. I'm not saying I'd throw my arms up and not do it. I can play in midfield. Maybe when I'm a bit older, losing my legs a bit, I can go back there."

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/24466899

elampiro: The Tactics Board- Nine and a half
July 13th, 2012
Nine and a half-
In the last season and a half, Wayne Rooney has made the deep-lying forward position his own. Sir Alex Ferguson has made the 4-4-1-1 his dominate formation. Wayne Rooney plays as the deep-lying forward, with Javier Hernandez or Danny Welbeck working in front of him. This allows Rooney to drop deep into midfield, and spread the ball out to the striker and wingers in front of him, while also remaining an extremely dangerous scoring threat himself. He’s able to be both a creator, and scorer.
Rooney plays a ‘Number 10′ extremely well. He is good with the ball at his feet, and he’s able to play quality short passes. In addition, he has a great tactical sense to pick out the right pass to create openings for others. The only problem is, his goal scoring abilities go to waste as a straight ‘Number 10′. In addition, he’s equally skilled as a ‘Number 9′. He’s got a lethal shot, and the strength and agility to work against defenders in the box. But, again, the problem is that his creative abilities go to waste as a straight ‘Number 9′.
Wayne Rooney is equally dangerous as a goal scorer, and a creator, making it hard to classify him. He is too complete a player to be classified as either a ‘Number 9′ or a ‘Number 10′, which leads him to be classified as something extremely rare: a ‘Nine and a half’.
http://redrants.com/the-tactics-board-nine-and-a-half/
Wayne Rooney isn’t the first player to be thought of as a ‘Nine and a half’. Marco Van Basten is one of the most common examples, but there are few players who have the skills and abilities to play this role. It’s hard to find a player that can both create chances for others, while also retaining a dangerous goal scoring threat. While these players are extremely rare to come across, they have become slightly more common now. With Dutch ‘Total Football’, and the playing style of the current Barcelona and Spanish National team, players are required to have better all-around skills. They are no longer allowed to just specialize on one typical playing style. Robbie Fowler is an ideal example. He was a dominate goal scorer. He didn’t have good pace, or speed, or agility, or ball control, but he could put the ball in the net. This type of player is no longer used, as Fowler is only 37 and last played for a team in Thailand.
The trend now is towards more complete forwards, in the mould of Wayne Rooney, Carlos Tevez, Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Lionel Messi. They all qualify as ‘Nine and a half’s, as well as being world class strikers. They are great goal scoring players, but they are also creative threats. Their creative abilities are great, and that makes them extremely valuable. Having the creativity, vision, passing ability, and tactical awareness necessary to create goal-scoring chances for their teammates, as well as being top notch strikers, makes them the key to their teams attack.
Playing a Nine and a half-
Teams struggle against a ‘Nine and a half’ for many reasons. The main advantage that ‘Nine and a half’s have is how versatile they are, and Wayne Rooney is a perfect example of this. In 2011/2012, he played as the lone striker up front, the deep-lying forward behind the main striker, the left-winger, and as a central midfielder. They are hard to shut down for the defense due to their variety of abilities, and it causes the defense many problems.
Playing a Nine and a half-
Teams struggle against a ‘Nine and a half’ for many reasons. The main advantage that ‘Nine and a half’s have is how versatile they are, and Wayne Rooney is a perfect example of this. In 2011/2012, he played as the lone striker up front, the deep-lying forward behind the main striker, the left-winger, and as a central midfielder. They are hard to shut down for the defense due to their variety of abilities, and it causes the defense many problems.

ISMH! So you want me to believe this article when i have facts/records that proved otherwise. I can see that you believe so much in articles written by some bloggers in order to attract traffic to their websites. I can as well sit in the comfort of my home and write articles about Rooney and you will believe it.

If when you were born, your parents pent to the local govt to register your birth and you have a birth certificate to show for this. If somebody somewhere then woke up one day say write about you and wrote different date of birth for you and you choose to accept it as against the one registered for you, that is your own cup of gari.

Football of these days have facts/records which are produced and kept by heavily paid private organization. How do you now expect me to believe a blogger when these facts/records a readily available? You can only get facts from match day or through these paid organisation. I can only choose to believe this organizations and not all these bloggers who write whatever they like without facts.

Coogar even brought out some facts to prove to you that he played as a no 9 but you choose to believe some articles.

This is also from another site. Read well and tell me which one to believe btw this and the one you posted. You will even see why Rooney's goals dropped from 2011/12 and 2012/13.

Tactical Analysis: Is Wayne Rooney playing as a no.10 or striker for Manchester United?

Wayne Rooney’s position has been subject to debate ever since he first burst onto the scene. Some would consider him a no.10, whilst others might suggest he is best as a lone striker following an impressive 27 goal haul as the focal point of Manchester United’s attack in 2011-12. The United forward claimed that he fell out with Sir Alex Ferguson over his position, with the United boss moving him into centre-midfield at times. So where does Wayne Rooney actually play?

Rooney’s role last season

The drop in goals from 27 in 2011-12 to just 12 league season is the result of a shift in position for Wayne Rooney. The signing of Robin van Persie meant that he was no longer the focal point of United’s attacks. Rooney was ‘relegated’ in a manner of speaking, to a no.10, an out and out attacking midfielder playing a support role. Rooney also registered ten Premier League assists from his slightly deeper position. One thing that caused him to put in a transfer request was allegedly the fact that he was dropped into central midfield on occasion, a position that was relatively unfamiliar for him. With van Persie though, he certainly was no longer the main striker and was clearly relegated to a deeper role behind the Dutch forward.

Wayne Rooney under David Moyes

David Moyes has been pretty amendment that he views Rooney as a centre-forward, shifting him from a deeper role to place him up front alongside Robin van Persie. If we look at the average position maps from Manchester United versus Bayer Leverkusen we could see this first hand:

Rooney (10) is playing alongside Robin van Persie (20) in what is essentially a conventional(ish) 4-4-2 formation. The same can be said of Rooney from the defeat to Manchester City. Even though he is alongside van Persie in his average position from this tie, he played a different role. Rooney touched the ball a total of 64 times and played 39 passes, van Persie on the other hand only played 24 passes and had just 48 touches of the ball. This is reflective in the two players action-area graphics.

Rooney spends a lot of his time dropping off the front, as we might expect of a no.10, despite having a similar average position to van Persie:

Despite being positioned as a striker he is dropping off a lot into the deeper areas we would associate with Wayne Rooney, a player who often drops back into midfield to pick up the ball and influence the play.

If we look at van Persie’s action areas, we can see it as more reflective of a centre-forward, with little dropping back and spending more time in the penalty area:

So despite being alongside each other, Rooney was still playing off of van Persie, albeit not quite as a number ten, but also not quite as a number nine, more of a hybrid. Something we can see from the 1-1 draw with Southampton

Rooney as a no.9 and a half?

What we can ascertain from Rooney’s form this season is that he is not really a number 10 any more. Rooney is playing further up the pitch nearer to Robin van Persie in what can loosely be described as a 4-4-2 formation. Rooney was also leading the line against Manchester City. Last year he was in support, which is why he enjoyed less goals for United. This season he has been better in front of goal but is still maintaining a high number of passes per game, an average of just over 45. To put that into context that is more passes per game than Arsenal’s Jack Wilshere and Chelsea’s Oscar.

One factor is that Robin van Persie has reduced his role to a pure no.9, who is no longer as involved in build up play as he was last year. RvP’s passing has reduced to averaging just 19.4 passes per game, down from 27 passes per game last season. Interestingly he is also creating less chances for his team-mates this year, with just 0.1 chances created per game, compared to 1.8 per game last season, a drastic shift in form and in the role he is playing. Rooney as such is having to work hard performing a duel role as a striker and as a no.10 to link things up, with RvP playing as a goal hanging forward now.

Rooney is more than capable of playing as a striker, as he did very well for United in 2011-12 and as he often does for England to great effect. He is also very adept as a number ten, playing in support, something he did better last season than he got credit for, he has also began to do this for England playing behind Daniel Sturridge which will be something to watch going into Brazil 2014.

http://thinkfootball.co.uk/archives/12554

I can see that you read football on the interne instead of watching and analysing properly. You need real football education.

I don't even know which argument to follow again.

!. You said the top 9 was shared among Berba, Chicha and Welbeck.
Berba who only stated 5 games with 512 mins.
Welbeck who just came back from loan will lead our attack where Chicha and Rooney were available.

2. You said that Rooney never topped 9 for us.
Only for you to change that he may have been used as a 9 in one or two occasions out of 32 starts.

All these in the name of justifying how good he is. He hasn't done anything extra ordinary. What he is doing in Man Utd some other player can do better as a no 10. He is not the only player who has such a work rate in the world. Anyway that is what he is being paid for.

I am out of here.

elampiro: Welbeck was 9 in 2011/12

Nani, Valencia, Young, Giggs had high paying time. JS Park aslo played some matches.

Check the stat.

So, they too played as 9? This is absurd.

elampiro: When I said Rooney never played as number 9, I was only emphatically telling you that Rooney was not our number 9 that season. He may have had 1 or 2 occasions he was drafted there.

Chicha and Welbeck were our 9 that season.

Chciha had 16 games as 9. Telll me where else welbeck played?

Chicha + Welbeck 9
Rooney 10
Berba 9

1. I asked you the other time that did you understand the meaning of what you said that Rooney never played as no 9. You are now saying he may have been drafted on 1 or 2 occasions out of 32 starts. Lololol!

2. Why has Rooney not been able to at least score more than 16 goals from the same position (10) in other 8 seasons? Answer me.

3. Welbeck was rarely used as a top 9. He was mostly used as AM or shunted to the LM/RM.

elampiro: 1. Stop confusing facts. Rooney was 10 in that season.
2. If Welbeck didn't play 9, where did he play?
3. Answer the above, then I will give you an all round answer.


*** A number 9 cannot be a one of top ten passers from the midfield.

I never said he didn't play as 9. I said SAF rarely use Welbeck as a 9. You were the one who said Rooney never played as 9 in that season.

coogar: the truth & nothing but the truth. fergie played a variety of formations that season of which 4-4-2 was the most used formation & rooney played as one of the two strikers, always in the box. i now have all the facts of 11/12, contrary to elampiro's lies that rooney played as a 10.

according to opta stats, united played 442 in 31 times, 451(twice) 4411(twice) 4141(twice) and 433(once). rooney played as one of the arrowheads in 11/12 season & that was the reason he got plenty of goals from that position & assisted less than his normal return as a 10.

And elampiro said Rooney never played as no 9.

elampiro: The problem I can see is that there are people here who have allowed themselves to brainwash as to think Rooney is not as good and not capable of the things he does. That's the probs on this thread. Many brainwashed people forming ally against Rooney. They think the men at Old Trafford managing the club are mediocres.

Nonsense!

Somethings sound too good to be true because it's Rooney. That's how good he is. That's why he earns so much and has outlived every other forward players in Man United. Only a legend spends 10 years in one club and still command so much.....

You are the one that is being brainwashed by Rooney. And i can see that you want to infect some people with that. You are the one creating hatred/dislike of Rooney to some forum members with all these you overrating.

Yes he may have outlived every other strikers because he is British. Other than that, he would have been sold long before now. He has spent over 10 yrs at united right now. In 2012, the Premier League celebrated its second decade by holding the 20 Seasons Awards, why wasn't he nominated into the Fantasy Team of the 20 Seasons by the public and panel if he was so good as you have alluded to? Ronaldo who spent only six seasons was nominated. It is not how far but how well.

elampiro: I thought it was even about 14 points sef.

Rooney gave us more than 11 points.

Chicha gave us more than 11 points.

Verify your facts.

If Berba wasn't there after Rooney pointed a gun at the heads of United management and wanted out, would he have come back to meet United in a position where he can contribute to win the league that season? You make me laugh with this your Rooney obsession. He hasn't done anything evtra-ordinary. No one is denying the fact that he is a good player.

elampiro: I don't need to check any record. It's the fact. Rooney was not 9.

You talk about Chicha. You forgotten Welbeck also played 9. Chicha alone had eaten about 16 maches from the number 9 position. Remaining only 22. Welbeck had about 22 matches. Although there could be some matches when Welbeck and Chicha were on the pitch together.

Rooney alone had about 31 matches. So when did he play number 9 in those 31 matches? I have not even mention some scratch of other top 9 as Berba, Machaida and Owen.

Don't argue what is so obvious.

Did you build build the facts in your head? Lol. Welbeck didn't play as 9 in that season. It was between Rooney and Chicha. Thank God you have remove Berba.

Rooney have played for United for over 10 yrs now. Lat's assume he has been playing as 10 as you have suggested. Why has he not scored more than 16 goals in a season apart from those two seasons? Why has he been inconsistent in his performances in the remaining 8 seasons? A no 10 that can score 26 and 27 goals in two different seasons should be averaging 20 goals per season. Why score 16, 14, 12 and 11 in other seasons? Definitely, it is either he has problem or their is a problem with your allusion.

The fact remains that Rooney was our lead striker in 2011/12.

elampiro: Berbatov delivered league? Ukwu!!!

How many points did his goals give to us as compared to Rooney in same season.

Rooney played a far vital role.

He gave us about 11 points with 1 goal wins and draws. Subtract 11 points from the number of points we used to win the league in that season, you will see that if he hadn't scored those goals we wouldn't have won the league then.

elampiro: 1. Rooney was never a top 9 in 2011/12. You only imagine he couldn't have performed so well from the deep. That is what Rooney gives you. He is so influential.

2. I am even under rating Rooney. He is far better than what I state here. Look at his recent assists from a midfield role. How many number 10 drop so deep and still come up with goals and assists? He also clear from our box from open play.
3. Go back to my posts. My first response to you. I mention Chicha, Welbeck and Berba. I knew this very well.

1. Do you know the meaning of the bolded at all? I don't think so. This not about 'imagining'. It is about facts. My question to you is how many games did Rooney and Chicha started in that season? How many did Rooney started withouth Chicha? Go check your records.

2. So if you are not underrating him, who would you compare him to? Rooney is a striker and not a midfielder that is why he can score and assist from a withdrawn role. There is nothing so spectacular about that. Aguero and Tevez also do the same thing and that does not make them a midfielder. That is why he is earning so much from the purse of the club.

3. Don't even bring Berba in because he only started 5 games with 512minutes. Welbeck under SAF was either played as a winger or as a support striker. Rarely will you see SAF play Welbeck as a top 9. So, it was between Rooney and Chicha. Now, go and check your records and see how many games Chicha started with and without Rooney.

elampiro: Welbeck had 2018 mins of playing time. 9 goals, 4 assists.
Hernadez had 1476 mins of playing time,10 goals, 2 assists.


Your hatred for Rooney is worse than Lucifer hatred for Mankind. You cook lies just to pull Rooney down. Watch football and not follow stats.

This is not about hatred for Rooney. I am a United fan and i do not hate any of United's players. How can you be misinforming people and you expect me as a fan not to correct that?

Rooney is a good player, no doubt about that. But the way you overate him is unacceptable. Go back and check your facts very well before you start any argument. Rooney was our top 9 in 2009/10 and 2011/12. That was the reason why he could score those number of goals in those two seasons.

First you said Berba and Chicha were our top 9 in that season. Now, you are saying it's Chicha and Welbeck. Which one are we to take? How many times did Welbeck played as a top 9 under SAF?

elampiro: You want to start an already concluded argument. Present all your facts, later I will respond and clear you.

1. How much playing time did Chicha get in 2010/11.
2. How much playing time did Welbeck get?
3. How many games did Welbeck and Chicha played separately?
4. How many games did Rooney and Chicha play?
5. How many games did Rooney and Welbeck play?

Mind you, Rooney was among the top passers from the midfield. I presented a chat in which it showed Rooney passed many even from our own half, own third.

If he played 9, then he is super human to have been so busy in the midfield. The other players who made that list were attacking midfielders like Nasri, Silva, etc. I don't have the data readily available, I hope to dig it out again later today if necessarily.

Do you even read what you type at all or is it a deliberate act to shift the goal post. Who is talking about 2010/11? Did Rooney even score up to 20 goals in 2010/11? You need to be consistent with what you are typing.

coogar: rooney was a 9 in 09/10 & 11/12.
every man & his dog know that but elampiro would argue otherwise. in 11/12 season, berbatov had 5 starts or so.

That is correct.

elampiro: No. He played 10.

We had this argument recently. Chicha, Welbeck and Berba played 9.

You need to go and get your facts right. Rooney scored 27 goals in that season in EPL. In those matches he scored those goals, Berba didn't start those matches with Rooney. Chicha only started 3 matches with him in those games Rooney scored those goals. How can you now be saying he played the No 10 role.

I know you are so obsessed about Rooney but don't cook up what is not right in order to win an argument.

elampiro: Me lost this argument? Ukwu!!!

Have I ever lost any argument with you?
Anyway, only one last direct response to you. Rooney won some penalties in 2009/10. If he wasn't fouled he should have scored. So he should still be above 20 goals. Mind you, Rooney is not a natural 9. And the man knows how to spread his goals. Rooney did not just stop at those goals, he scored a good number in the UCL and others.

Then in 2011/12 Rooney scored 26 (not confirmed actual figure) league goals from the number 10 position. Remove his penalties, you will end up with about 22-23 league goals. Then he scored some in Europe, etc.

That is not correct. Rooney played as the top 9 in 2011/12 and not as number 10.