₦airaland Forum

wiegraf: You claim god creates moral law, there is no god so that's not possible. I'm using 'god' here to represent yahweh or any other supernatural force. If someone claims he were mandated by god, his claims would be false (unless he could show you this god of course). Mind you he's not necessarily consciously lying, he could just be mistaken one way or the other. Ultimately all moral codes have been drafted by humans, even if unwittingly. You could present your evidence to show otherwise.


Anyways, god or no, you seem to be pushing what some call trandenscendal morality. Read this if you're ever free (e long tire, but maybe just the green bits should suffice)

www.nairaland.com/1090616/biological-basis-morality

So from your world view, what is morlaity to you?
how do you think we got here??

Logicboy03: Use your brain, muslims and bhuddist and pagans dont follow your gods rules as well.


How can you calim that morality lies with only christianity?


Not as if there is eveidence for god

That's why there are absolute right and wrong written on our hearts.....it supersedes personal bias and prejudice

New yorker: do you guys have to sleep in your home when its freezing without heat?

Lagos: no

Whaaa? Rephrase that ^^

tavon: We are going round in circles blood lool

True talk

tavon: Ok so is there anything wrong in that. He can still function in society regardless of his gender.

So let me ask you this. If a gay man invented a phone or some new technological appliance are you going to turn around and saw just because the device was made by a gay man am not going to buy because the inventor is immoral.

Alan Turing a gay genius a genius of his time was persecuted because he was gay. He took his own life by eating a piece of an apple dipped in cyanide hence the apple iphone ipad symbol.

No, they are not different its just their sexuality

God is not a man, he is. a being.....he is love, good and holy

tavon: So harasing people to see things your way is the truth. HAHAHA you are a joke. You left Africa to go to the UK to tell them how to live their lives and what is right and what is wrong? Cmon son.

Before you and me were born, gay people have been here and when we both die they will always be here. All this hatred you have for them i have had it. Trust me i have been down that road. Until i had my highest pay job where the gay Head of IT interviewed me.

The man was no different to people i call my friends. He tolerate my religion and i tolerate his sexuality. He is not kissing another man around me or made a pass at me. So you want me to risk my job to talk to convince someone that am a psychopath who believes in someone who resides in the sky.

The sexuality of a man does not define a man.

it doesn't define a man but violates the reason why he is a male by gender

Lord Babs: daft! Just tell me one SINGULAR thing wrong with homosexuality. And please don't abscond.

i heard an interesting perspective two days ago....if homosexuality is not a choice and they are born that way, if a drug was discovered to correct the orientation will gays accept the offer? something think about hhuh?

inurmind: Well, I was a serious christian before. But after studying the bible and the world around me, I concluded that it false.

Books like the bible were created to set standards of morality, and nothing more. But people have taken them a little too seriously and what was meant to share love is now an instrument of hate and discrimination.

hmm i wonder why the great Romans killed the apostles for just a moral book

it is wrong it is taking a life that can't speak up for itself yet.

Lord Babs: you make me laugh! First, can u prove your god gave me life in the universe? Second, assuming your god gave me life, na who send am?

you can't prove anything......but your existence points a life giver the intelligent designer of the cosmos
your rationality is an evidence, the you fact consider yourself to be valuable than a spec of dust in the universe points to a God that says you were made in his image and everything about you is sacred and if anyone violates you, he/she will be judged accordingly.

“We don't need a God to know right from wrong.”
Can each individual decide what’s right and wrong for themselves? Suppose you came to a traffic light and decided that red meant “Go” and green meant “Stop.” You would have made up your own standard, but would you be right?

Can society decide what’s right or wrong? Throughout history, societies have allowed ethnic cleansing, massacres, and wars. When you denounce these and other atrocities, you are also acknowledging that there is a standard higher than what a society decides.

It is impossible for fallible human beings to create an absolute standard. That’s why morality must come from a living and conscious source who is beyond the changing world of human imperfection. God, our creator, is that source. He holds us to his eternal standards of right and wrong.

If God does not exist then objective moral principles and obligations do not exist. Morality would only be a matter of individual or cultural opinion. But this would mean that torturing babies for fun, Molestation, & child abuse are not really objectively wrong, and are only a matter of opinion. How likely is it, though, that these atrocities are not really objectively wrong? Can you live with this conclusion? Our deepest intuitions inform us that these actions are horribly wrong.

This is really a summary of a moral argument for God’s existence. Formally it looks like this:


1.If God does not exist, objective moral principles & obligations do not exist
Objective moral principles & obligations do exist
Therefore, God exists
Consider premise
2. By objective we mean independent of opinion, just like 2 + 2 = 4 is objectively true even if everyone in the world disagreed. Despite people’s claims to being relativists, most people live as if they do believe in objective moral principles & obligations. It’s easy to say there are no objective moral principles & obligations, but it’s much more difficult to live as if there are none.
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Re: Can Objective Morality Exist Without God? by tevinsolt: 4:31am
The judgments we make when ourselves and others are unjustly treated, like in the above atrocities, reveal what we really believe about morality, regardless of what we say we believe. We believe that these atrocities are moral abominations, not just infringements of mere social conventions or personal dislikes. If objective moral principles & obligations do not exist where does our sense of duty and obligation come from?

This leads us to premise 1. If there is no God it is difficult to see how there could be any objective foundation, any universal standard for good and evil. How do you get ethics from only different arrangements of space, time, matter and energy? A purely materialistic universe would be morally indifferent. We would have only individual or cultural opinion, but no objectively binding moral obligations!
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Re: Can Objective Morality Exist Without God? by tevinsolt: 4:31am
Some have suggested that we can provide an objective foundation for morality without appealing to God. Morality has just evolved over the centuries, they suggest, because it promotes human flourishing and survival. Whatever promotes human flourishing and survival is good. Whatever doesn’t promote human flourishing and survival is bad. That is all we need for objectivity in morality, they claim.There is no need for God.

But if God does not exist, the critical assumption that human beings are objectively valuable is not available. Humans, like everything else in the universe, would be just accidental arrangements of atoms, and therefore, we could not justifiably declare that humans are objectively valuable. Furthermore why think the morality of the human species, above all other species, is objectively binding rather than just our opinion?

Moreover, if morality evolved because it produced survival benefits, we would not have objective moral principles & obligations. We would sense that objective moral obligations exist, but they really wouldn’t. Once we’ve figured out that our feeling of morality with regard to say, Molestation, is just a biological adaptation inculcated into us over millions of years, then we would have no reason to regard Molestation as objectively wrong anymore.

Since, we know that objective moral principles & obligations do exist, and since they cannot exist without God, it follows that God exists. (modus tollens)

If the God of classical theism existed, an objective foundation for morality would exist. God’s holy and good nature would be the objective standard. God’s nature would be expressed through divine commands which would flow necessarily from his moral nature. Thus we would have objective moral principles & obligations.

Written by Michael Horner

Lord Babs: such is the case of your wanton god, boiling the fish with water after extricating the fish from the same water. Please, don't emulate such indecent god. It is treacherous!

Tell me wats wrong with a God that gave you life in is universe, and gave set of rules to follow, and failing to do so will land you in a place of separation from him....cuz think about it, you've never sought him all your life he is not going to force you into heaven.

Lord Babs: excellent. So, if a mad man takes a matchet, walks up to your 10-year old son, say u av one, and butchered him, has he done a morally bad thing? Would he be condemned by your god for such act?

a mad man is a psychologically disabled individual (which is clearly also a physical problem)....someone like dat shouldn't be allowed to roam freely...they should cared for

Lord Babs: good. So, you birth a child. While at an infant stage, a toddler, you gave the child a razor blade in one hand and a book in the other. You now tell the child, 'hey, I have given you the freewill to choose between these two things, now you are on your own'. In your own moral perception, do u consider such act as morally good/ideal, assuming you are omni-whatever?

No kids are still developing

Lord Babs: you still haven't answered his question. Why are u begging the question? Do mentally deranged people have souls?

yes dude

atbu1983: is like u didnt undastand my comment. Please read it again. I am not in support of science neither am i against it. I simply said some scientist believe there is enof prove for God while some other scientist said those proves are not enof, while others said those proves are complely wrong. So there is no agreement.

I'm sorry about that....and "evidence" u mean... not "proof"

Lord Babs: good. Why was the soul fashioned in a way that is capable of good and evil simultaneously?

for certainty idk but we were given free will by God

ifeness: Imbeciles are biological deformed humans. Just like a factory rejected cars. Are you aware that scientist now cross breed human dna with dolphins to creat humans who can survive in the aquatic habitat. Same was done to us thousands of years ago.

That's my area of study in college...it is not called cross breed...it is transgenic organism: an organism that was genetically modified using recombinant dna

musKeeto: This was your definition of soul

The ability to differentiate 'good and bad' is an ability that can only be used by humans in a 'normal' state. I put normal in quotations to avoid arguments of what 'normal' means to a avoid unnecessary arguments that would only add a few more empty pages to such a delightful topic

One who's born with 'mental deficiency' clearly has no control over his actions, hence the need for supervision and close monitoring. Are they human? Yes.. Can they[b] control[/b] their actions? NO

So, I ask, do they have souls?

So tell me is personality a physical trait?.... a person could be physically deformed but it doesn't it have anything to Do with the personality

musKeeto: do imbeciles have souls? By imbeciles, I mean those born with 'brain defects'..

are you human,is the soul material?
the answer to these is the answer to the question you asked me

musKeeto: Lol, i was mocking tevin..


But you choose to apply your 'FAITH/ILLOGIC' to only Jesus..
the Muslims apply theirs to the quran..
the Hindus also..
faith's not and has never been exclusive to Christianity...

no cuz you are the one here i'm not quite getting......Christianity and Islam claims to be the right path to the one true God, but when you have the two idea that contradicts each other, one must be wrong. now how do you eliminate

internal consistency, and the lives of those who started the belief system, whose life account promotes the teaching they offer..........clearly without doubt "Jesus"

Lord Babs: what is a soul?

the soul is the real you, the soul is your personality....the soul is the you that's capable of good and evil but all comes down to what you choose.

ifeness: God is not a being but an idea invented by some clever humans to keep their fellow humans in bondage.

Your god is a god of torture right? If he were real,i will put in in the same category as Hitler and the rest of the tyrants . He will have to go through a brain test because torturing is very inhumane.

Humans are not machines but soul who chose to have earthly experiences.

Serving yahweh is no different to surrendering your wallet at gun point

You take your morals from the bible, i take mine from common sense.

so according to you being a just judge equates to being like Hitler? just so you know Hitler his going to face and account for what he did on earth in front of almighty God. when God was going to destroy sodom and gomorrah, Abraham had a discussion with God, he said if there were 50 righteous people in the city will he destroy it and God said because of those 50 he wont....he was written Abraham kept at it till 10 people and God still maintained his word, how is that bad tell me

if God was a concept made to keep in bondage, why were most of the apostles killed? what did the apostles gain than death sentences from the romans huh?

and believing in a God is a wise thing my friend, it a choice (free will), will all make choices day in day out, we only pray to make good ones.........and this one... i'm certain!

musKeeto: You really shouldn't be accusing people of not making sense... BELIEVE by FAITH..

i do have faith, Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
i haven't met Jesus myself obviously but based on the evidences the apostles have left behind i believe, in the one and only true God.

ifeness: Biologically yes, our soul is eternal/energy which can never be created nor destroyed.

The human body can be manipulated to any form,the soul is the real deal. The soul is the real you and its got no creator.

a soul without a creator is dirty nonsense and makes no sense

musKeeto: now we've moved from science to HARD science, the way you dolts would move from CHRISTIANS, to TRUE christians..

Where do we draw this line.... you believe in the BIBLE? Jesus's also mentioned in the quran.. why don't you believe the Quran?

i believe in the God the bible reveals, Islam got it's story about Jesus from Gnostic gospels which were written in the middle of the 2nd century, while Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written in the first century......ask yourself which is more historically reliable? the ones written while eyewitnesses were still alive or the ones written far later after they're all dead?

ifeness: Story for kids. He loves us and yet killed his son wow! Why did he have to kill is son for us if indeed he created us? Why not just make his creatures perfect? If he is truly powerful,he would have killed satan.

Yahweh is not god. The term God has always been misused. God is everything you see around you,including you and your beloved yahweh. God Orderly Direction,Positive and Negative brings out the God attributes. All in one creates balance.



You have the right to your belief still. But i would waste my time worshiping a being like myself.

you know what you just committed? Idolatry---you made up a God in your mind that fits into what you want it to be
so according to you, you would rather want to be machine that has no free will? or what part of you being made in the image of God don't you get?....you have the ability to determine right from wrong and be morally perfect like God....it's all up to you

God is a being, a being that is outside of space and time, he is holy and good
God consist of three persons the father, the son and the holy spirit who are coequal in the same essence

he is a God of justice all sinners will be tortured in hell, God is eternal and every sin you commit against him is eternal and the punishment is eternal.

[quote author=~Royal~].........lol

Best Thread on Nairaland At the Moment.[/quote]u think sey na only u sabi lol.....oya take am ---->

musKeeto: Well ,for someone who believes in the BIBLE, I really don't blame you if you believe SCIENCE("knowledge attained through study or practice," or "knowledge covering general truths of the operation of general laws, esp. as obtained and tested through scientific method and concerned with the physical world.", according to you) began because of the Church..

In short, there was no science before CHRIST...

for someone who believes in the bible? <---what is that suppose to mean? i believe in God who Jesus claimed to be, and the bible is the testimony of eyewitnesses and also a Guide for moral uprightness
science in a form i would have existed as long as humans have been around i guess, but talking of hard science, it started in Europe