FighterPilot:
The only thing that I know about SA mercenaries is that they will suck Nigerias oil money just like they did to the US. They bankrupted Sierra Leone, Liberia, Equitorial Guinea, etc wherever their services have been used.

Working for their retirement - and with the threats of arrest, their thirst for money has just been heightened. And Jonathan will pay up or they will stop working.

FighterPilot:
Some of the South Africans mercenaries are said to be involved in training Nigerian air force pilots and carrying out air strikes against the insurgents position.


My quote of the day from one Nigerian media.

EVarn:
lol.a country does not employ the service of mercenaries through traceable phone calls.
your defense ministry and intelligence service failed to detect a covert infilteration and massive evacuation of known private mercenaries.arent those kind of people supposed to be kept under closely guarded watch?
now your ministry is crying foul and threatening armageddon.but they have recieved no response.

How do you know how they were employed?

You don't.

And how are mercenaries employed? Based on what?

This is what happened the last time.

There are strong suspicions that the South African government got wind of Mann and Du Toit’s plans – and even that the coup plotters naively thought Pretoria was turning a blind eye, preferring a white-mercenary-inspired coup to a nasty dictator.

Instead, the South African government didn’t just stop them, according to this account; it allowed them to get caught to send a strong message to future would-be mercenaries.

And how does our ministry crying foul change the fact that our mercenaries are operating in Nigeria?. No longer denying that, are you? On to the next desperate point now.

FighterPilot:




This one is only one of many of Nigerian media

http://www.naij.com/385393-boko-haram-nigeria-hires-sa-mercenaries-illegally.html

There's tons of reports.

EVarn:
citation needed

How many do you want? There's plenty. So, let us know.

EVarn:
dismissed

As in the previous case, what has been said will not change just because you typed "dismissed".

EVarn:
how come your defense ministry allowed mercenaries to be ferried with nigerian military aircrafts from SA to nigeria,and later went to the media wailing about an unfair injustice?

"Allowed"?

How did it "allow" them?

Please explain your "challenged" question.

There was no "allowing" done, unless you know something we don't. So, enlighten us.

How were they "allowed"?

EVarn:
waste of data

Screaming "waste of data" will not change the contents of this page. Readers can still see what's been posted.

EVarn:
dismissed

Typing "dismissed" does not change what has already been posted.

EVarn:
No mercenery in the north east,if there were any,the nigerian media would have revealed it.

You have no evidence based on which you can say that. You only have wishes.

Besides, lots of Nigerian media pieces have revealed it.

Is this your final desperate line? "Media would have revealed it"?

How is that different from saying "I actually don't know anything but I will deny"?

EVarn:
how do you know that they were deployed to nigeria,did you see them?

I know because my own defence minister and tons of reports have confirmed it.

Simple.

You on the other hand have no basis or evidence based on which you can deny what I have just said.

I have not seen the space shuttle but I know it has gone into space.

EVarn:
iterator didnt claim to have seen any mercenary,you madman.he only said that he watched a video clip showing a white man standing behind a military van.mercenaries arent the only white men in the world.the man was either a white nigerian,fulani man,a chadian or nigerien.

You have not answered the question.

How do you know who has not seen what?

When was your survey where you asked Nigerians to tell you what they have or have not seen?

You don't know that he was a white Nigerian. What proof do you have for that?

What proof do you have that he was a Chadian?

If you have no proof, then you have not disproved that he was a mercenary.

Because you don't know anything, you can't deny anything.

iterator24:
oga stop tellings fake stories if you can back them up.

It's not fake. If I am in the mercenary business, I will make sure that I have what it takes to offer a service.

http://www.rdm.co.za/politics/2015/02/03/inside-africa-s-private-armies

Inside Africa's private armies
Private military and security companies: Who controls the guns-for-hire?

"For example, former South African air force pilots, technicians and trainers form almost all of Rwanda’s air capability, according to Andre Roux, a senior ISS researcher. Angola today uses private military personnel extensively to develop its command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4ISR) capabilities, Roux said"

EVarn:
no one have seen them,we have watched videos of the NA training exercises and deployment to battle,yet we didnt see any mercenary either training our troops or leading them into battle.we have seen pictures too,but even then,no mercenary popped up in any picture.
so where are the mercenaries?

It's a simple question.

How do you know that no one has seen them? How do you know that not a single Nigerian has seen them?

Please answer the question.


You know because they did not pop up in the pictures that you have seen? Is that your answer? Really?

Because Bernie Murdock has not popped up in the pictures that I have seen, then no one has seen Murdock?

That's it?

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?CategoryId=12395&ArticleId=2371772

South Africa to Arrest Mercenaries Fighting in Nigeria against Boko Haram

JOHANNESBURG – South Africa is planning to arrest a group of mercenaries fighting alongside the Nigerian Army against the Boko Haram Jihadist group, South African Defense Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula warned on Thursday.

“There are consequences when somebody leaves the country and provides any form of military assistance that is not part of the government’s deployment,” the South African official said.

At the request of the Nigerian government, several South African ex-military personnel have been training Nigerian soldiers to fight Boko Haram, according to local daily newspaper, Beeld.

Mapisa-Nqakula trusted that their arrest when they return to South Africa will send a message to all South Africans who are serving as soldiers for hire.

The South African Act of Military Assistance Abroad prevents its citizens from participating in wars in other countries, unless they are acting under the authority of the government in Pretoria.

Former members of the South African military have been involved as mercenaries in armed conflicts in countries such as Angola, Liberia and Sierra Leone.

In 2004, a group of mercenaries attempted to lead the failed coup against the dictator of Equatorial Guinea, Teodoro Obiang Nguema.

In addition, soldiers for hire offer protection and security services to private individuals in countries like Iraq and the Democratic Republic of Congo.

After the last war in Gaza, South African authorities warned of possible legal procedures that may be taken against South African citizens with Israeli citizenship who fought for the Israeli Army.

Weakened by corruption and a lack of political will and organization, the Nigerian Army has been unable to cope with the attacks of Boko Haram in the north of the African country, where the group seeks to establish an Islamic fundamentalist state.

Msauza:


Ask iterator who claims to have seen them.

Which only serves to show that Evarn could not possibly know who has or has not seen what.

He was just giving us his usual baseless denials.

EVarn:
if no one has seen them,then they arent in the north east.
if there are indeed mercenaries in the north east,where are they then?,surely we didnt pay them to bury themselves underground.

On what grounds cay you say "no one has seen them?". How do you know that?

Simple question.

You have no knowledge of anything.

So you can't advance any categorical denials.

The farthest you can go on your argument is to say that you simply don't know.

EVarn:
i do not have the patience to pander to your destabilization tactics.
no one has seen any mercenary in the north east,the video of a white man standing behind a military van doesnt amount to proof.the man could have been a white-skinned nigerian,a fulani man{from the fulani tribe of nigeria} or even a chadian soldier,its open for speculation.

You do have the patience. What you don't have is an argument.

Is that it? Your entire argument is based on that "no one has seen a mercenary in the north east"? Really? So because of that you can categorically deny the presence of mercenaries?

That's it?

And how on earth would you know who has or has not seen a mercenary anyway? Where and when was your survey?

In the end, the best you can do is say you don't have enough knowledge to either confirm or deny what you have been told.

You can't deny that which you have no knowledge of. You don't know who the white folks are, so on what grounds can you deny that they are mercenaries?

Seeing as you have no knowledge of anything, those who have the knowledge are now telling you - those are South African mercenaries.

EVarn:
we were talking about mercenaries allegedly training our pilots,when you suddenly emerged from nowhere to hijack the topic of discuss and derail the interractive trend by infusing your sinister mechanizations.you are saying something entirely different from the subject of discussion.
There isnt any confirmed evidence of mercenary activities in the north east,we only have unconfirmed speculations from an obscure media entity called 'beeld'.

I asked you two simple questions:

1. List the facts that have been twisted and provide proof that this is the case.

2. What are the mercenaries doing in Nigeria then, according to you? And what is that based on?

There's nothing different from the subject here. Simply answer the very simple and direct questions on the issue of mercenaries.

There is confirmed evidence - the mouth of our own minister who wants to have the mercenaries arrested.

The rest of your diatribe will be left alone for another day.

EVarn:
you enjoy twisting facts so much that you are already trapped in a cocoon of lies and deciet.
in your earlier post,where did your defense minister categorically state that SADF "mercenaries" were piloting our military jets for enemy engagement?
where is it written and confirmed that your mercenaries are training our pilots?
you can continue puking out the falsehood you are well known for,but it really doesnt change anything.

Name the facts that have been twisted and provide proof that this is the case.

Don't give us longwinded, baseless opinion. What are the mercenaries doing? Feel free to answer that too.

EVarn:
NIGERIAN AIRFORCE CARRIES OUT PRECISION AIRSTRIKES AGAINST BOKO HARAM
[picture below]

With thanks to South African mercenaries.

lezz:
your ability to deceive yourself and hide your pain in any situation is amazing.
Your folks are barely literate and civilised. you are still being viewed as a wild maladjusted animal by your Anglo-dutch masters.
And when your folks wake up to self realisation ,we will then teach you how to run a shop before dominating a Markey, Zulu mofo.

As expected - empty rhetoric with no objective.

Point out the source of my pain. You won't be able to because you just say anything that you deem right at the time.

Point out the instance of self-deceit. Once again, you won't be able to because you just spew things with no mental engagement.

Your only contribution here are words, but meaning? Never that.

lezz:
who else have gone? And what are you still doing here?
Trying to repair your life on a Nigerian forum?
The question is why are southafricans Nigeria-magnet? Why are they the only ones still on the thread?

Less talking to himself as usual. Question is why are Nigerian threads unable to go a day without mentioning South Africa? For as long as the name "South Africa" features, there will be South Africans happily visiting your threads. The thread has been colonised by SA - just like your markets have been.

EVarn:
your source quoted thus: "there are fresh reports saying...."
where did the fresh reports come from?
the report wasnt from the south african ministry for defence neither was it from the nigerian DHQ or AHQ
so where did this purportedly 'fresh' reports emerge from?

See why I say you say the first thing that comes to your mind without any thought?

Below, your own posts for the world to see.

Now all of a sudden, you have issues with "reports".

Your job on this thread is to post whatever you are feeling on a specific day. Thought? What's that?

And our minister herself confirmed it anyway.

____


Johannesburg - Defence Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula says the “mercenaries” from South Africa helping to train Nigerian soldiers to fight Boko Haram should be arrested on their return, according to City Press.

Briefing journalists on the sidelines of the African Union summit in Addis Ababa on Wednesday, Mapisa-Nqakula said: “The police have a responsibility to ensure that, when they come back, those people are arrested and the [National Prosecutions Authority] has a responsibility to charge them. There are consequences for going out of the country and provide any form of military assistance as a mercenary, not as part of the deployment by government,” she said.

Mapisa-Nqakula said law enforcement officials should take care to gather enough information to prosecute these “mercenaries” in order to make an example of them.

“It should be that you’re doing it so that you can secure a conviction so that it sends a message to all of the South Africans who are going around as mercenaries,” she said.

Mapisa-Nqakula said in the case of the South African security company Executive Outcomes deploying its private soldiers to conflict zones outside of South Africa, the prosecuting authority didn’t have enough information to secure a conviction.

EVarn:
lol.old guard?,you really possess an inordinate talent for melodrama,dont you?.what gives you the impression that the "old guard" has deserted me,i think you are forgetting your place mate.
i didnt come to this thread to pull a jesus;i dont need disciples.
therefore i fail to understand the reason behind your baseless accusations.
from here on,i wont respond to any more meaninglessly time consuming posts from you again.until you regain proper decorum.

Just look at this one, for example. Six lines. Zero substance. Yes, of course. You came onto this thread to just move your fingers and post the first thing that comes to your mind. No plan. No intellectual message. Just empty responses. A thread is about discussion. So everyone needs participants for a thread to be lively. But because of the lack of stimulation coming from the type of rhetoric on here, your own fellow Nigerians can't participate because to go along with you is a major embarassment. Who wants to spend the whole day dealing with looooong posts that have no substance?

You are on every single page. Hogging page after page. But no one could even learn a single thing from your posts. No links. No citations. No evidence. No facts. Just looooooong posts comprising baseless opinion. It is a fact bra. You aren't stimulating. Just scroll back and see how many pages you are on. Go back and see what has happened to the behaviour of your fellow Nigerians. Go back and see the change in the flavour of the thread. Sometimes the bitter truth has to be said. Now is that time.

Msauza:
So, after all the truth has been revealed that fighter jets which have been used to bomb BH are in fact SA former military fighter pilots which serves as mercenaries in Nigeria. People, Nigerian has no fighter pilots who are well trained to a world standard.

Yes, my man. It is an undeniable truth. Nigeria has had to go and hire South African skills. A very clear recognition that Nigeria doesn't have similar skills.

EVarn:
typical,when you percieve things going 'awry' for you,you begin trading blames.
what is my concern if people are no longer responding to your posts,so that you can frustrate their efforts and waste their data by twisting known facts?.
i have no patience for such mediocrity.

1. What has gone awry? Point it out.

2. You won't be able to because every argument of yours is baseless.

3. It is a fact that you are not stimulating.

4. Your posts are not stimulating, my friend. They stimulate neither Nigerian nor South African.

5. Of course you have no patience for "mediocrity" because you have enough of it in the form of your posts.

6. Your only job on this thread is to post anything. Anything that is a response, you will post. But think it through before posting it, you won't.

Just go back and look at the type of rhetoric associated with you on the thread. Scroll back my friend. Scroll back. No one could be stimulated by that. And because of the type of responses you invite, your fellow Nigerians have left. The flavour of the thread has crossed over to empty banter.

EVarn:
everyone is on hibernation mode,until they find a topic worth the wasting data to comment.
if you persist with your antagonistic fact-twisting attitude,i fear everyone will simply come here to read amusing comments.
cheers!.

How do you know that "everyone is in hibernation mode"? They do log on. See what I mean? You just post anything without thinking. Fact is not even a single Nigerian from the old guard on this thread wants to follow you on your line of empty banter. You thrive on empty rhetoric and invite long unstimulated debates on this thread. People respond to you if and when they have the time. Otherwise, no one is really stimulated by your posts.

EVarn:
reputable source for what?,neither SA nor Nigeria has confirmed any deployment of SADF 'mercenaries' against boko haram.so,as far as everyone is concerned,there is no mercenaries in nigeria.full stop.
PS:oh!,you wound me with your harsh chastism,i think i'm gonna cry.
oops!,i just realised that i dont care.
lol.we{nigerians} all left this thread because we are sick of your lies and propanganda.moreover,we are all busy.
so quit moping,and get a grip.

Yes, you don't care because you can't go beyond a certain intellectual level. You just post anything without thought.

Case in point, you can't just give us a bare denial without any evidence supporting your denial. You need to base the denial on some evidence. And as predicted, you won't post any evidence supporting your denial because all you are about are thoughtless posts. Even Nigerians are tired of going along with you. You are not very stimulating or stimulated.

Check for yourself and see if anyone from your side follows your line of empty banter. Scroll back my friend. They have left.

Very nice read.

http://sites.la.utexas.edu/utaustinsoc/2012/10/03/from-mercenaries-to-contractors/

POLITICAL SOCIOLOGY
FROM MERCENARIES TO CONTRACTORS
OCTOBER 3, 2012 ADMIN LEAVE A COMMENT

Upcoming presentation at Go-Betweens: Crossing Borders – An Interdisciplinary Conference at The University of Texas at Austin. Session B3: ‘Human Rights? Social Justice?‘ October 12, 2012. 3:40 – 5:20 pm. SAC 3.112

Contemporary conflict areas and warzones across the globe witness the emergence of an old actor in a new face-the hired guns. As the quintessence of the spirit of capitalism in the battlefield, the new contractors’ companies take an increasing part in modern battlefields. From a pariah and symbol of cupidity the soldiers of fortune turned into businessmen in suits and million dollar companies, transformed from mercenaries into contractors. These contractors and companies proliferate in conflict areas, conducting various tasks as partners of governments and armies, from logistics and maintenance to intelligence and even actual fighting. In many battlefields they outnumbered the standing armies’ regular soldiers. This is the result of an historical process and an old arm wrestle between the market forces and political forces that tilt to one side or the other. Nevertheless, current trends evince these new characteristics. This differentiates them from former times and raises interesting questions on accountability, while challenging the Weberian notion on States and the monopoly of the legitimate use of violence.

Not so long ago, in the mid-90’s, mercenaries such as ‘Mad’ Mike Hoare, Bob Denard, ‘Black Jack’ Jean Schramme, Yair Klein, and many others prowled all across Africa and Latin America; following the committing “tradition” of Ernst von Mansfeld, Roger de Flor, Francesco Sforza and many other respectable names. These individuals, though many times operating under the advice and request of governments, were considered pariahs in international politics. Even the surprisingly successful intervention of the South African mercenary company Executive Outcomes (EO), which forced the notorious Revolutionary United Front that menaced Sierra Leone to ask for peace, was concluded with rapid banishment by the international community the moment EO harbored stabilization and democratic elections. In spite of the mitigating effect of EO presence on the Sierra Leone civil-war, (which was an arena the international community failed to deal with) no one in the international community could envision that hired-guns run the security and indirectly, the politics of a UN member.

The world, post 9/11, presented more than a few challenges for the international community and especially for the only world power, which was occupied with two distinct and distanced arenas about half the size of Texas. After a quick triumph in Iraq and Afghanistan came the phase of control and reconstruction for two turn countries with bad infrastructure and unstable politics, a phase which demanded further ‘boots on the ground’ than the over stretched and exhausted coalition could supply. The solution came in the form of outsourcing; outsourcing of control, construction, and if necessary, of fighting (Chatterjee 2009).

Table 1. Comparison of Contractor Personnel to Troop Levels

(As of March 11)

Contractors Troops Ratio
Afghanistan Only 90,339 99,800 .91:1
Iraq Only 64,253 45,660 1.41:1
CENTCOM AOR 173,644 214,000 .81:1
Source: CENTCOM 2nd Quarter FY 2011 Contractor Census Report; Troop data from Joint Chiefs of Staff, “Boots on the Ground” January report to Congress.

Notes: CENTCOM AOR includes figures for Afghanistan and Iraq. CENTCOM troop level adjusted by CRS to exclude troops deployed to non-Central Command locations (e.g., Djibouti, Philippines, Egypt). Troop levels for non-CENTCOM locations are from DMDC, DRS 11280, “Location Report” for June 2010.

Figure 1. Number of Contractor Personnel in Afghanistan vs. Troop Levels

Source: CENTCOM Quarterly Census Reports; Troop Levels in the Afghan and Iraq Wars, FY2001-FY2012: Cost and Other Potential Issues, by Amy Belasco; Joint Staff, Joint Chiefs of Staff, “Boots on the Ground” monthly reports to Congress.

This rapid ‘makeover’, from pariah into mainstream political consensus, took less than a decade. At present, contractors or private military companies (PMC), are the providers of a variety of services starting in logistics and catering and ending with intelligence gathering, security and sometime even offense. Western companies are not the only players in the market and many other companies are taking their share in the “scramble for Iraq and Afghanistan”. Many of them are local, especially in Afghanistan.

Comparing major American conflicts from the last 250 years yields interesting results. The ratio of mercenaries/contractors and troops in the battlefield increased dramatically and shows record highs of 1:1. Historically this trend is new in the U.S context, though it has historical precedent for other nations.

Source: http://www.economist.com/node/11955577?story_id=11955577

A ratio of 1:1 proposes that a significant military effort is conducted by contractors and not by military personnel. This trend raises points at issue over accountability and responsibility and questions the state’s ‘monopoly on the legitimate use of violence’. Take for example Blackwater, which retains a private navy, air force (it purchased recently a fleet of ‘Super Tucano’ turboprop fighting planes), and produces and sells its own armed personnel carrier- the Grizzly. Its capabilities surpass those of more than half of the UN members. Furthermore, in order to avoid the bad reputation associated with its activity in Iraq, the company rebranded its image and changed its name to Xe and later to Academi. Thus, we can see the dilemma of power and accountability (or problematic accountability) in the contractors’ contexts.

Currently, the interface between state/military and PMC’s is vast and not fully regulated. Problems occur frequently on the basis of determining jurisdiction and responsibility on the ground. Meanwhile contemporary warfare is changing as two distinct populations with different norms, characteristics, and organizational culture are working together, adding to an already complicated scenario.

Msauza:

That one is a South African. They like to live their beards like that.

Ja - the caption says that he is South African.

EVarn:
false 'unconfirmed' media reports are hardly a reputable source of proof.
how can the SA defense minister brand the soldiers and military advisers they willing sent to nigeria,as traitors?
how is it possible for him to refer to them as 'mercenaries' and order their immediate arrest should they ever return?
if SA were 'helping' us,they'd have ran to the media to publicize and sugar-coat it,as if they have just sent legions of special forces into nigeria.
your government wouldnt disrespected and denigrated the troops they willingly sent here by calling them 'mercenaries'.
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Where is the "reputable source" that confirms your baseless denials?

Please post it. There's none.

The fact of the matter is that those are South Africans out there. Mercenaries or not. They are South Africans.

Thanks.

By the way, you're the sole reason why your fellow Nigerians have left the thread. The type of posts that you invite. Scroll back and see who's left on your side. It's only you in your two forms (lezz and evarn) and the occasional overhypedsteve. Everyone else has left. You're an embarrassment.