₦airaland Forum

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Make good use of your God given intellect and be reasonable.

Make good use of your Shiva given intellect and be reasonable.

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The reference to REFINE and Refiner have being too consistent to miss since at least December 22 in my posts. You should calm down and read my posts with less distraction and pain. God created man good, it is not just what i say. When you meet God, ask Him why He did not create man perfect.
Psa 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
Psa 135:6 Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.
He made the fruits that way too, till they are ripe and perfect for consumption, it is called GROWTH(a character of living things, i thought this was taught in basic science).

Why didn't he create man perfect?

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Good to see you accept that nobody ever killed his/her child because God told him/her to do so. i asked you that question and you have accepted albeit with palpitation. If God ask anyone to kill, He knows perfectly well that death is only a passage into eternity and not the end. God gave Isaac to Abraham when it was already naturally impossible for Abraham to have a child.
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Heb 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
If i give my child a very precious gift and ask him/her to bring it or give me. My child will have no qualms and will trust that i can give him/her the gift or even better and more. This is simple and straight normalcy. Nothing absurd or evil or unreasonable in the act. You need to throw away your perspective for another, it is too poor.

Good to see you accept that your God asked people to kill even their own children for him. If you asked your child to kill his own child for you, then I'd say you're also callous. Giving the excuse that God knows death is only a passage to eternity and is good, then why don't you go around giving your children this passage to eternity?


[quote author = Carl Sagan]Who is more humble? The scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever it has to teach us, or somebody who says everything in this book must be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of all the human beings involved?[/quote]

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You take such unnecessary length of time, cajoling and almost coercion to answer simple questions. In the end, the purpose and the line of thought or context is easily fizzled out if not entirely lost. Learn to discuss please, except of course you have nothing to gain. If you are not advocating that we should simply forgive all sinners and defaulters, why do you want God to simply forgive? Who is punishing a poor man's child, when the child has to go to low quality schools, do menial jobs as a kid and wear worn out clothes?
BTW, people are not sent to hell for just being born. The Bible does not teach that, neither have i said that. People are judged according to their works.
Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

You keep on deliberately missing points that are clear. Are you really unable to see the difference between deliberately killing a 6 month old baby and killing the father who your God says was a theif? Why shouldn't God "forgive" this baby who hasn't done anythign wrong other than being born? Actually, your Bible does teach that people deserve hell just for being born. This is why you should read your Bible to know the evil it teaches.

Mark Twain: A God who could make good children as easily as bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave his angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice, and invented hell — mouths mercy, and invented hell — mouths Golden Rules and forgiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people, and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites his poor abused slave to worship him!

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Answered this already, just to add. A Maker, Manufacturer, Creator can make, manufacture and create as He chooses in a sense. You don't go asking Toyota why they did not make a 5 wheel car. Go and make yours if you can. If you cannot make yours, you simply look for who can or you buy what is available. Whining to Apple or Samsung why they put 512RAM inside a phone model instead of 256RAM.
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:

God created all things including humans for His own pleasure, not for thehomer's fancies. He made Heaven perfect(at least according to what i perceive to be your idea of perfect). For millions and millions of years past, present and to come, heaven is perfect. No aging, no sin, no no dying, everything doing exactly as it is told from Trinity to angels to other living creatures and non living creatures.

So your God wanted to create imperfect people but command them to be perfect? This makes no sense at all. Neither Apple nor Samsung claim to be perfect yet they've done a much better job than your God. And they have warranties on their products. Your God just sends people to hell for his own laziness and creating imperfect people.

Mark Twain: God's inhumanity to man makes countless thousands mourn.

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It is not absurd because He is God not man. His character makes Him moral, His law makes Him moral, His Word(the Bible) makes Him moral. His true followers are moral, all you need to do is look at your good relatives; all followers of God. God no where tell you to emulate Him as a Judge. In fact, on the contrary, He specifically says not to. He says to leave it all to Him. Law enforcement agents don't normally tell society to emulate them in law enforcement.
Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

It is absolutely absurd. His character, laws, the Bible are immoral. His followers are sometimes immoral if they think as you do that genocide is sometimes right. The good followers are those who reject your God's evil desires.

Carl Sagan: What I’m saying is, if God wanted to send us a message, and ancient writings were the only way he could think of doing it, he could have done a better job.

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Here is your question again in green, "Is commanding the killing of old people, all males, babies and adults while keeping the young female babies and virgins to be used genocide? " Twisting it to "Is genocide a good thing" is simply deceiving yourself. If God commands killing, it is not genocide, if man commands it in the order you describe, it is genocide. i have explained this same act, different perception thing to you using different analogies and allegories, like the soccer player and the referee, the police man and the common man etc. This is elementary enough, i would not risk programming you or mind-control for you to get it.

Why don't you answer the question you quoted? Or have you already forgotten what genocide is?

If God commands the killing of old people, all males, babies and adults while keeping the young female babies and virgins is that a good thing? Please answer this one too.

All you're saying as far as I can see is that you think genocide is sometimes good.

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So, how does the theory of evolution show that man is ape or that the earth came about by chance? My reference to Genesis was to show my link of the formation of the earth and evolution(the link being the creation account) since you were needlessly telling us that they are different. i will re-phrase in case you somehow still missed it. Does the theory of evolution show that man is ape OR that the earth came about by chance?

What is wrong with you? Can't you read? I said the formation of the earth is not the theory of evolution so your question there makes an improper assumption. Man is an ape based on the definition of apes by biologists. If you think humans are felines, then say so.

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i said to kindly focus this paragraph on Romans and Matthew and answer the questions instead of dodging. Kindly equals PLEASE i think. How is Numbers 31 a direct quote from God?
Num 31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
Num 31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
Num 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
Num 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Num 31:19 And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day.

Is Matthew 5 not a direct quote from Jesus who is God? Is Romans 5 not Bible which is also the Word of God? Numbers was written by Moses, Matthew by Matthew and Romans by Paul. They are all the Word of God. Again, God does not command me or you to obey or emulate what you refer to as 'God's hate'. Contrariwise, He specifically says not to. Give reasons why you will not obey God's command to love, you have not given.
The only reason why you have not committed genocide or worse is God. You have shown enough zombiehood for the devil, only God is stopping him from using you in greater capacity. You that is okay with present day millions of abortion that go on annually. While God will punish more people than Mao and Pol Pot combined, He is the Judge of the Earth and the Creator of all the lives punished and rewarded. And He does not allow or encourage you or anyone to do same as He will do. Your brothers, Pol Pot and Mao cannot make even amoeba and therefore have no locus standi to take any human life. You recall the numbers of lives they took? What the Bible and Christians call godliness is the best of what man can ever think as the 'right thing'. You need God, He can help you out of your dishonesty, lies, perversions and coming depressions.

What do Numbers 31:1 and 31:25 say?

All you're doing is proving my point by showing that your God is confused. First he says genocide is okay, then his so-called son says that people should love others. Why do you reject the fact that he gave the command in Numbers 31? Or are you saying that the commands given in Numbers were good?

No the reason why I haven't is because I am better than your God. Why is God stopping him why doen't he destroy the devil? Or is the devil too powerful for him? You need to reject your God to save you from your dishonesty, lies, perversions and persistent depression.

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Giving Job more children does not mean one child can just be substituted for another, it is simply consolation and reward.
Psa 127:3 Lo, children are a heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
i agree that things would be okay if God didn't allow the devil to kill Job's children in the first place. But things became more okay afterwards. Today, we have the book of Job and Job has served as a cushion, relief, encouragement and source of inspiration for millions in the past, today and in the future. Things were okay before i wrote my secondary school examinations, and i don't think i would have died or automatically become a failure in life if i did not write the exams. In fact, writing the examinations brought me a lot of hardwork, study and diligence and introduced a possibility of failing the exams. But i passed and so did Job.
You forgot to shed more light on this FACT of no afterlife, Or is it your FAITH at work again? i'm 100% certain that you did not bother to try the evidence for God. Lazy you. Don't miss this yet again; evidences of an afterlife are the true christian life, justice, God, purpose of life, and common sense. These are evidences of tomorrow(afterlife).

Reward? Are you mentally unbalanced? He could have prevented it all. How was it more okay? Was Job supposed to just forget that he had children who were murdered while your God looked on? Honestly the sort of depravity you religious people exhibit is just sad.

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Your examples did not say that they do not believe in God, duh. They committed treason. Treason is not JUST thinking. It is a crime not to worship God today of course. And God will judge that crime in His time. You do not worship God the way you feel like, you worship God the way God wants you to. This is what is acceptable and reasonable.
Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him MUST worship him in spirit and in truth.

In other words, it was a crime for people to think freely when it comes to worshipping God. Calling it treason doesn't change the fact that your God made it a crime to think. I have thus demonstrated my part. You on the other hand have decided to delude himself by calling it treason to think for oneself.

Ingersoll: Standing in the presence of the Unknown, all have the same right to think, and all are equally interested in the great questions of origin and destiny. All I claim, all I plead for, is liberty of thought and expression.

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The facts and pictures remain clear, they are not my ignorance but common sense and verifiable. Refining is a very clear, consistent and repeated process all over creation.
Psa 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth his handiwork.
Psa 19:2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night showeth knowledge.
Psa 19:3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

There are millions of stars and planets seemingly useless compared to one planet EARTH. It will only be foolery to glibly assume that God needs all His creatures(including humans) to achieve His purpose. There are millions of spermatozoa released but only one is needed to meet the egg and form the human. The remaining millions are pretty useless. Same goes for pollen grains. The many millions of fruits, crops and livestock and wildlife in the vast forests that grow, ripen, die and rot every year without being touched. The many millions of untapped resources that geologists or so tell us that have being here for ages doing almost nothing of value. The trend is the same for humans who are also a part of God's creation. It is a privilege and not a right for humans to go anywhere called heaven. Make no mistakes again in your life, God is not desperate to get all humans into heaven. These are the bare facts you should use instead of fight.

More empty assertions I see.

Carl Sagan: You see, the religious people — most of them — really think this planet is an experiment. That’s what their beliefs come down to. Some god or other is always fixing and poking, messing around with tradesmen’s wives, giving tablets on mountains, commanding you to mutilate your children, telling people what words they can say and what words they can’t say, making people feel guilty about enjoying themselves, and like that. Why can’t the gods leave well enough alone? All this intervention speaks of incompetence. If God didn’t want Lot’s wife to look back, why didn’t he make her obedient, so she’d do what her husband told her? Or if he hadn’t made Lot such a shithead, maybe she would’ve listened to him more. If God is omnipotent and omniscient, why didn’t he start the universe out in the first place so it would come out the way he wants? Why’s he constantly repairing and complaining? No, there’s one thing the Bible makes clear: The biblical God is a sloppy manufacturer. He’s not good at design, he’s not good at execution. He’d be out of business if there was any competition.

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Well i have clearly stated some of my reasons for following God as you requested; His love, common sense and the human makeup. You don't have to agree with my reasons.

And I have clearly stated reasons for avoiding your God. His callousness, his evil nature, his ignorance and incompetence. You really should agree with my reasons since the Bible shows this fact.

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You would make a poor jester. i hope you know that your brothers Mao and Stalin do not own human life neither can they create human life or claim to.

I hope you know that your imaginary God does not own human life even though you claims he does.

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Any reasons why you think/say that God wanted sex slaves for some of his people? You see, you hardly understand what genocide is. You cannot talk about genocide without dehumanization, polarization, hate and extermination. These are major markers in any genocide. i'm pretty right to say earlier that you lost objectivity. Again, you are saying(for whatever fuggy foggy reason you put) that you DON'T SEE why Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot should be punished for genocide. You need a doctor.

The reason is that it was written in your Bible. You see, you're merely making excuses for the geoncide your God commanded. You can once again take a look at the definition of what actions constitute genocide and compare that to what your God ordered. Once again, I'm right to say that you've lost objective. Wow are you also having a stroke or merely suffering from problems with reading comprehension? Please can you quote where I said that in its appropriate context?

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God created man, created the earth, divided the red sea, used His prophets to raise the dead and perform many miracles. Do you also see this things before your very eyes? This was the question, stop being childish.

No I don't see those things before my very eyes what I've read with my very eyes are that your God commanded genocide, recommended slavery and killed people for having their own thoughts about what to worship.

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Obviously, you do not know the meaning of genocide.

Obviously I do since I've presented you with its definition and shown that it is what your God commanded. Your denial of these elementary facts is just shameful.

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You are ridiculous and WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING, a character of the unrighteous according to Romans1. i'm to avoid foolish questions, not avoid nairaland or its threads or thehomer. Not all your questions are foolish, some are valid and i have attended to them and ready for more as 1Peter3 says.

Yet here you remain. It is only when I ask you whether or not you would obey your God as he commanded the Israelites that you start ranting about Romans and foolish questions. I know that I've revealed that deep problem you have with your God.

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Good for you, shows how ineffective a god he/it is. Where is Brahma's book that guides many to a moral life like my God's Word or better?

Haven't you been paying attention? Your God's word leads people to evil and worse. As I've said, the fact that he is more moral than your God is enough to make him win.

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Keep your temper, scarcity and inflation looms.

Looms for who? You and your God?

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So, i checked my Bible and saw nothing about sex slaves. Again, What gives you this ludicrous idea? You have no problem with the millions of abortion that you advocate for. How about God killing all the children and taking them all to Heaven, do you like that one? You seem to have a medical condition with running away from questions. No idea binds God, God is not a man.

You've not been reading your Bible. Do you remember where it distributed the female virgins among people including his prophets? If you say you've not seen this, then I have to say that you're ignorant about your Bible. No I don't like that one. What I would like is that he didn't kill innocent people. Or do you like the one where he orders the killing of everyone except female virgins? If God isn't bound by ideas, then you cannot say he is good or moral.

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Beating God? That must be what they call STRONG delusion a la.
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Judgement is the decision of a Judge, in this case the Judge of all the earth.

No, it is what we just call strong. And the judge is Brahma.

So your God is deliberately deluding people so they may believe a lie? How do you know that you've not fallen under that delusion so that you're believing that your God who commanded a genocide is actually good?

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i call you a liar because you lied, God did not do what you alleged He did. It is not an assumption thehomer. You cannot die for me, or heal me, or give me air to breathe. God does all these for me, you are not better than Him. You can only claim better in your pocket, just like i am a better tennis player than Nadal in my pocket.

God did not order the killings? Then who did? Or are you delusional or reading from the Satan's Bible? As I said, assume whatever you want, your God remains a moral monster.

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You're welcome.

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God does not need you or me, we are the ones that need Him. You need Him to save you from sin and its consequences.

He still won't be getting a crumb from me though.

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From your definition of slavery as An institution or social practice of owning human beings as property, especially for use as forced laborers. i do not see how ignorance fits as a form, do you? i predict you will dodge the question, surprise yourself and myself. Point it out, how is Ignorance owning human beings as property, especially for use as forced laborers?
The last i checked, to "have" is to "own", duh. Do you feel depraved for having/owning parents. i don't. Did Abraham have any slave/servant?

Too bad for you that you don't see it. I see it and I've pointed it out to you. You said it yourself that your God owns you. Or do you wish to say now that he doesn't own you? Having is not the same thing as owning. Your silliness is truly astounding. Are you saying that you own your parents the same way masters owned slaves? Or don't you know what owning a slave means? Have you suddenly become unable to cope with English language?

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Ingersoll is already forgotten, you should also forget him for good. You are making another set of unfounded allegations. God said? Where?
God never said you should follow Him as Judge, in fact He has stated otherwise several times. He is the Judge and Avenger and you are to leave judgement and vengeance for Him. H ehas told you what things you should do, and you have being so far unable to provide tangible reason why you will do otherwise.

If he were forgotten, how is it the case that I've been able to quote him? Simply google his name and see whether or not he is forgotten. I refuse to follow a despicable ideology like what your God outlined and what he intends to do to most of humanity according to the Bible. He judges the innocent as guilty and kills them. He avenges himself on babies and on people he deliberately created as flawed. What sort of monster is this that you serve?

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There is no other God out there.

You mean other than Shiva?

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You are a dishonest fellow. i have being saying this as far back as December 22. The reference to REFINE and Refiner have being too consistent to miss since then in my posts. God created man good, not as a sinner.

You were never this clear. You say God created man good. Why didn't he create man perfect?

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In other words, you are saying that nobody ever killed his/her child because God told him/her to do so. Good to see you accept that. There is no callousness with the Owner and Giver of life.
When i say stuff is your cup of tea, i simply mean that i am not forcing my perspective on you. If you intend to discuss God or christianity, then consider the God and christian perspective on righteousness. If you cannot do that, you are free to sip your cup of tea alone.

No, I'm saying that your God is evil in asking Abraham to kill his son. That is callousness.
I have considered your Christian perspective and found it wanting. I'm merely pointing that fact out to you. I'm also pointing out the poor reasoning you're using to back it up.

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Do you advocate that we should simply forgive all sinners and defaulters? You skipped that again. You are not punished for being a child of Adam, just like the child that died in the burnt building, i used as an allegory, was not being punished.

No I'm not advocating that. I'm pointing out to you the difference between punishing someone for what they've done and punishing someone for simply being born. I don't want an allegory, I want you to be consistent. e.g you seem to think that just because people are born, they deserve to be sent to hell.

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Several times, i have told you and i say it again. Adam was made good, God Himself said so. Adam's good start didn't stop him from failure no more than a good mango fruit can become rotten, instead of a more purposeful consumption and use in farming/sowing.

And I say to you, why wasn't Adam made perfect? Or is your God only capable of less than perfection?

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Because that Person is God, and He has not commanded the killing of babies, you are not and i am not commanded to kill any baby. Only a biased and selective person will fail to see the demonstration of God's great qualities all over the Scriptures. His love, grace, mercy, kindness, thoughts, law, acts are worthy of emulation. Getting fixated forever on your skewed perspective hurts no one but yourself.

Well that is absurd. What is it about God that makes him moral? He commanded those Israelites to kill babies or haven't you read your Bible? Only a biased and selective person will fail to see the demonstration of your God's evil qualities all over the Bible. His genocides, hatred, evil and unjust acts are not worthy of emulation. Getting fixated on your flawed perspective hurts us all.

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Your dishonesty and ridiculous subtlety is pitiful. You asked "Is commanding the killing of old people, all males, babies and adults while keeping the young female babies and virgins to be used genocide? " So, it remains amusing how you arrive at the folly that i think sometimes, genocide is it or not. As you continue to fail at the fundamental and foundational meaning of genocide, you will continue to ramble and wander.

You stated it yourself when you said

Image123: My answer is that IT DEPENDS ON WHO IS DOING IT.

If whether or not genocide is good depends on who is doing it, then it follows by elementary reasoning that you think that genocide is sometimes good. The fact that you find it difficult to reason when your God is involved is your own failing.

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My question was "How do they show that man evolve from apes or that the earth came about by chance?" So, you are saying we do not even evolve from apes but are actually apes? You waste your faith a lot. The formation of the earth and evolution are usually connected by the CREATION talk, Genesis 1 and 2. How do they show that man evolve from apes or that the earth came about by chance? Do you just say it like you just did? Is that the 'better plow'?

I know what I said. The fact that you asked a question based on your own ignorant presumptions doesn't make my answer wrong. Simply look up the biological definition of what apes are. You do realize that Genesis is inconsistent and isn't science. I'm not relying on the fables in Genesis to arrive at my conclusions. Once again, the theory of evolution and the formation of the earth are two different topics. Conflating it merely shows your confusion.

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You ran out of ideas again and resort to mimicry. You have a lot of tea to drink as that again is your cup of tea. Since you tacitly accept that you have no point about Numbers 31 being superior to Matthew or Romans, kindly focus this paragraph on Romans and Matthew and answer the questions instead of dodging. i have shown you God's love and even asked you to give reasons why you will not obey God's command to love, you have not given. This is a relevant and present day applicable question, not hypotheses and what ifs. People do not need God to sin or commit genocide, don't you think? Recall your brothers na, Mao, Pot and co. What the Bible and Christians call godliness is the best of what man can ever think as the 'right thing'. You need God, He can help you out of your dishonesty, lies, perversions and coming depressions.

I was merely phrasing things in a way I thought you would be very familiar with by using words and structures you provide. Yet you fail miserably to respond to what was said. As I've said several times, Numbers 31 is a direct quote from your God while Matthew and Romans were either written by unknown people or by mere humans. Who should we believe God himself or some people writing letters to themselves? I have shown you God's hate and asked you to give reasons why you would obey him.
You think people need God not to commit genocide? Don't you think? Recall your God na in Numbers 31 and the fact that he will torture far more people than Mao and Pol Pot combined. You don't need God. He has led you into your dishonesty, lies, perversions and your current depression and slavery.

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Again, how was God speaking as if one child can just be substituted for another? You need to defend that assertion or you were being unserious? Would things be okay in your sight if God did not give Job more children? i know you will run faster than your legs can carry you yet again, instead of honestly and simply answering. You just talked of the fact that there is no afterlife. Can you shed more light on this FACT? Or is it your FAITH at work again? i've given you the numerous evidences of an afterlife. i'll give you the evidence for God. You kneel down, close your eyes, and ask God for forgiveness in Jesus'name, believing. Try that before you come back to ask me.

Asked and answered. When you and your God think that giving Job more children somehow makes things okay. I have defended that assertion. No, things would be okay if God didn't allow the devil to kill Job's children in the first place. As you can see, I've directly answered your questions even repeating myself. No you've not given me evidence of an afterlife, you've only asserted it. Please present the evidence you have of an afterlife. Try reading and understanding just how evil and callous your God is before coming back to me.

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When thieves, murderers, rapists and co commit crime against the constitution, is it crime or you just feel they are THINKING? Is it a crime for them to steal, murder, rape etc or are they simply exercising their rights to think? Answer me. What they did was treason, fact.

How on earth is someone killing another person the same as someone saying that they do not believe in your God? This is just more of your dishonesty. Is it a crime not to worship your God today? Answer me. What they did was simply expressing their desire not to worship your God the way some people said he must be worshipped, fact.

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The fault lies with you. The solution is Jesus Christ, not any bunch of confused ideas. Humans are not apes, studying something is different from agreeing with/to it BTW. Man did not evolve from apes, neither was the earth formed by chance. God made man good, it is up to you where you want to end up. The facts and pictures are clear, the many millions of stars and planets, the many millions of spermatozoa, the many millions of pollen, the many millions of fruits, crops and livestock and wildlife, the many millions of untapped resources and gange, the many millions of humans. Use the facts, don't fight them.

Merely throwing out assertions and asserting your ignorance doesn't constitute facts. The facts are clear that your God is imaginary and you're beholden to a figment of your imagination.

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No it is not. His love, common sense and the human makeup.

But your God hates people, common sense tells me that your God is imaginary and I don't see what the human make up has to do with anythign here. I mean, why not the malarial parasite makeup?

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Your shiva and others are all dead gods, made of wood and metal. God is the Owner of Heaven and Earth and the Creator and Judge of all men. As soon as God created right, He simply gave Himself. Your brothers Mao and Stalin do not own human life neither can they create human life or claim to. Muse on that until you comprehend.

Your God is an imaginary God made of wood, stone, clouds and finally imagination. Shiva is the Owner of Heaven and Earth and the Creator and Judge of all men. As soon as Shiva created your God, he made your God a figment of human imagination. I don't never said that Mao and Stalin owned human life or that they claimed to create human life. You muse on that until you comprehend.

1. Claim to have received anointing from a God of prosperity.
2. Start a church and become a prophet.
3. ? ? ?
4. Profit

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You don't seem to like Paul very much. Lemme remove him for you.
Dehumanization involves making and considering humans to be less than human, that is not what happened in Numbers that you allude to. Numbers 31 did not happen because of polarization or hate or extermination. Numbers 31 happened as judgement for events that took place in Numbers 25. Get your facts right please and be objective. Also, there is no denial or attempts to hide what happened. Those are common characteristics of genocides asides being a crime. i wonder what you mean or infer as God's "nefarious purposes". Can you be more plain?

The nefarious purposes are that your God wanted sex slaves for some of his people. I'm not talking about dehumanization, I'm talking about the genocide your God commanded. Don't you think genocide is a crime? Sometimes you say it is other times you say it isn't. I don't see why a limited human who doesn't know it all and has limited power should be punished for genocide when your God who has unlimited power didn't simply stop it or not give the order.

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God created man, created the earth, divided the red sea, used His prophets to raise the dead and perform many miracles. Do you also see this things before your very eyes?

God commanded genocide, recommended slavery and killed people for having their own thoughts about what to worship.

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No He did not.

He did. Unless you don't understand what your Bible contains.

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Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Yet you're still here. The fact of your maniacal God remains.

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i don't even know them, except for Brahma who you made popular. i am sure not up to 1billion people know them, they have failed already.

I made Brahma popular? I must be very influential. Yet they remain superior to your God because as I've said before, your God is a genocidal maniac. So far, they're leading your God morally since they're not genocidal maniacs.

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The question remains foolish though multiplied.

Then your God must have been foolish for issuing that command and you're foolish for saying it was right.

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No idea can bind God, sorry. He is the Great God, the mighty God. Sorry, the Almighty. God kept female children as sex slaves? Now, i thought you were deluded and deceived but i now know that you are possessed. What gives you this ludicrous idea? You have no problem with the millions of abortion that you advocate for. How about God killing all the children and taking them all to Heaven, do you like that one? You would not, i'm sure. So, basically, God is not waiting to do what thehomer likes, because thehomer likes nothing that God does, hehehehehehe.
Psa 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

That's what you think but your God who is already losing to a few Gods is bound. Hey about the sex slaves, don't ask me, check your Bible and ask yourself what he wanted with those female virgins while killing everyone else including male babies.

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Beat yourself, it is judgement.

I'd rather keep beating your God. It is genocide. Trying to justify genocide as judgement shows the depravity you share with your God.

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Liar liar, God did not do that. It is not an assumption thehomer. You cannot die for me, or heal me, or give me air to breathe. God does all these for me, you are not better than Him. You can only claim better in your pocket, just like i am a better tennis player than Nadal in my pocket.

You call me a liar while denying the killings your God ordered in the passages I showed you. This depth of dishonesty I've not seen in a long while. As I said, assume all that but your God remains a genocidal maniac. A moral monster.

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Vain repetition.

Hey, I call it as I see it.

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See my responses above too.

Seen and destroyed.

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That is unfortunate.

For your God since he won't be getting a crumb from me 'cause I'm from the streets of Naija.

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From your definition of slavery, i do not see how ignorance fits as a form, do you? i predict you will dodge the question, surprise yourself and myself. Wow, how do you know that God owns me? That must be your genius moment, wasn't it? BTW, do you have a wife, or siblings, or parents? The last i checked, to "have" is to "own", duh. Do you feel depraved for having/owning parents. i don't.

Too bad for you that you don't see it. I see it and I've pointed it out to you. You said it yourself that your God owns you. Or do you wish to say now that he doesn't own you? Having is not the same thing as owning. Your silliness is truly astounding. Are you saying that you own your parents the same way masters owned slaves? Or don't you know what owning a slave means? Have you suddenly become unable to cope with English language?

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Oh, forget that irrelevant man before he fails you again. Is that not the fellow that said that the only form of slavery is ignorance, or something like that? "i refuse to follow a godless ideology like yours and your brothers- Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao Zedong. Their deeds due to inability to follow God and His ideology and morality not only shocked hyena hearts but killed hyenas at once. They made the poison of the cobra taste like milk, and made the dastardly acts of the religious crusades seem like a massage."

Ingersoll will never be forgotten. Wan't it your God that said he created plants before the sun? Why don't you forget a creator so ignorant of biology that he will fail a simple biology exam?
I refuse to follow a despicable ideology like what your God outlined and what he intends to do to most of humanity according to the Bible. He intends to torture more people than Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao combined yet you think that would be a good thing.

I seriously doubt that the devil himself could do worse since your God has done it all and then some.

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You changed the context, i was talking about christianity and study of God. You brought up other gods to kind of prove that theology is not the study of the God but of gods. It is not a special status for myself. You know that i am a christian and you know who a christian refers to when he says God.

And as a Christian, you should be aware of the other Gods out there.

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i told you already, i said to refine. God tests man to refine him. Sometimes, i kind of hope that you are pretending with this your low level of assimilation, though on the other hand pretence is a friend of dishonesty. i have being saying this as far back as December 22. The reference to REFINE and Refiner have being too consistent to miss since then in my posts.

Finally, you're becoming able to answer simple direct questions. My follow up question to you is this. Why on earth has God chosen to use these tests that he knows Adam would fail and send most of humanity to hell rather than simply create a perfect Adam?

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i feel like quoting and the Bible is most appropriate as it is the text under probe as it were. i do not have any uneasiness with the accused given a chance to speak. My question was/is "Did anybody ever kill his/her child because God told him/her to do so? "
It is your cup of tea what you think righteousness is, i will tell you what i say and what the Bible says righteousness is. It was the context in which you were 'concerned' that God should not expect us(people) to live how He wants us to and avoid His punishment since we have the sin default. i say they are like you and i in the context of being equally human beings, supposedly born with a sin default. Of course, i know they are better than you in other context. Even your oga Ingersoll has been used to so show.
Heb 1:1 God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
The Bible(the Word of God) is God speaking to you and all humanity. Read it cumulatively and with understanding. If God has anything extra to say to you, He will. He has already written 66 books for you.

My answer is that your God told Abraham to kill his son. The fact that Abraham didn't kill his son doesn't exonerate your God. It takes a certain type of callousness for a powerful person to ask another person to kill their children.

Since "it is my cup of tea", I'm telling you that the Bible isn't a good source of what righteousness is. By your reasoning, if e.g the Bhagavad Gita says it is the source of righteousness, then you should also be ready to accept it.

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It is not just what i think, it is what i know. Human beings are wicked and sinful creatures by nature and default. The heart of man is very deceptive and wicked. You don't even need to teach humans to be unforgiving, vengeful, liars, retaliating, fighting, scheming even as a little child. And just as one man Adam made all men sinners, even so one man Jesus was sent to make all men righteous.{Again, so we are clear, sin to a christian is basically displeasing God, while righteousness is basically pleasing God. Always keep that in mind when discussing with christians}. The wages/salary/result/punishment of sin(displeasing God) is death. Death broadly means separation from God. So, the wages/punishment of sin is separation from God. So, Jesus came to pay that price or suffer or bear that punishment for man/humanity If someone is related to a thief, it can affect that someone adversely. Your actions and inactions affect people/others. i knew of a careless man living in an apartment. A fire started in his room and burnt down the whole apartment, killing another person's child in the process. This is what i am saying, this is reality. Your being sentimental with SHOULD IT does not erase the reality of DOES IT. Do you advocate that we should simply forgive all sinners and defaulters? You skipped that.

If you think that, then you think everyone deserves to be punished for Adam's sin. You do realize that what you may think is a sin, I may not consider as a wrong doing. Secondly, there is a difference between punishing someone for killing someone else and punishing someone simply because they had the "misfortune" of being born since according to you, all people who are born deserve to be punished for Adam's sin.

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Of course IF, although study, experience and scriptures show that they will commit. i have answered your question many times already. We are offsprings/children of Adam. Adam was made to produce after his kind/type.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Adam was head, apex and most important. You are not going to hell because of Adam, you are going to hell mainly because of you. But you start off with a sinful nature as the child of a criminal starts off as the child of a criminal. Logically, one would rather start off as the child of Bill Gates or a respected man, than as the child of a poor and sickly family or community. However, it is just a start, not a guarantee either ways. That you are bill Gates himself doesn't mean you cannot become a criminal or end up in prison. This is my point all along, the start up is not the main thing but what you do with your life. Like they say, your background is not a reason for your back to be on the ground even as a child of Adam.

I really wonder why you're unable to see the conflation you're making here. Why did God make people start off with a sinful nature? Why didn't he simply make perfect people to begin with? Why should we be guilty of what Adam did? You say the start up isn't the main thing yet you start people up with a sinful nature. Why not start them off with a perfect nature? Or wasn't your God aware of that option?

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i try as much as possible to explain things to the detail and with a lot of example for ease of comprehension. You despise that and ridicule that to your own disadvantage, not mine. A hypocrite like you has no locus standi to talk about others avoiding questions. You asked for what was wrong with your tense and your use of 'has'. God has not commanded the killing of babies, you are not and i am not commanded to kill any baby. You fail to see that and prefer to dwell on irrelevant details.

How on earth is the question irrelevant to whether or not your God is moral? Why should I think that a person who ordered other people to kill babies or who ordered someone else to kill their child as being a moral person worthy of emulation?

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Of course you know my answer already, only that you pretend not to. My answer is that IT DEPENDS ON WHO IS DOING IT. So, it is both. Just put God/Man after "Is" in your question, and you will get different answers, God is not man.

So you think that sometimes, genocide is a good thing to do. And you wonder why I call your God a moral monster. What you're saying means that you cannot tell whether or not any incident of genocide is actually immoral.

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So, back to basics. How do they show that man evolve from apes or that the earth came about by chance?

Humans are apes. The formation of the earth is different from the theory of evolution. If you want a lesson on the theory of evolution, you can take free online lessons or read online articles. I'm not going to teach you the theory of evolution on an anonymous online forum. I can recommend some classes and articles to you if you wish.

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You're kidding right? Who is speaking in Matthew 5? Anyway, your understanding and perspective is not the truth. The truth is that the Bible is the Word of God, from Genesis to Revelation. No Christian will tell you that Numbers is more relevant than Matthew or Romans. Secondly, you failed to show how. i have shown you God's love and even asked you to give reasons why you will not obey God's command to love, you have not given.

Who was speaking in Numbers 31? Your understanding and perspective is not the truth. The truth is that the Bible is not the word of God. I have shown you God's evil nature and asked you whether you would obey him if he gave you the commands he gave people in your Bible.
I on the other hand have told you that I do not need your God to do the right thing. In fact, I have shown that with your God, no act can be considered as being wrong.

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How was God speaking as if one child can just be substituted for another? Common sense is evidence of an afterlife. Purpose of life is evidence, God is evidence, the true christian life is evidence, justice is evidence. Evidence is relative, i believe my Father.

When you and your God think that giving Job more children somehow makes things okay. Common sense is the fact that there is no afterlife. What is the evidence for this God of yours?

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You said that God made it a crime to think. Did you or did you not? BTW, who are these "we" you are inculcating, i hope you are not there with legion dem? What you presented as thinking or idea was indeed treasonable and sedition against constituted authority among the Israelites. That is a fact, you can read your Bible instead of dreaming that it is about me. Israelites did not go about killing other nations for not following Israel's laws, you wrongly assume/imply that. It is not just a thing of 'today'. It was fellow Israelites that were so judged as according to your so called Evidence. Today, we are in the New testament days, and the same God tells us it is a new day. There is no jew or gentile, everyone is invited to the covenant as it were. While it is still wrong to commit idolatry or fight against God, the New Covenant brings GRACE. That grace delays judgement, so judgement is not immediate but left to God. The sinner can even repent on his dying bed. God Himself introduced that, yet you are complaining. i will give you scriptures that say what i am saying if you need them.

You've already agreed with me that your God made it a crime to think. You merely branded it treason and claim that those people deserved to die. If people deciding not to worship your God and getting killed for it isn't your God making it a crime to think, then you're merely talking gibberish.

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Keep on looking for fault then, i have found the solution and presented Him to you. i have studied evolution, and i know that man did not evolve from apes, neither was the earth formed by chance. God wants Adam refined because that is what He wants. Just like He wants living things to GROW instead of just being static. This is the reality before us, you can continue to muse on what could have been.

I've found the fault and it lies with your God. You've not presented a solution, you've presented a bunch of confused ideas. If you had studied evolution, you'll know that humans are apes. Why didn't God make Adam better? Why didn't he start afresh with a perfect human being? Why go for this stupid refining business that would send most of his creations to hell?

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Why do you care?

To decide whether or not to bother addressing that idea.

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Who gave God right? Lol, He gave Himself duh. Remember, He is Creator of Heaven and Earth. As soon as He created right, He simply gave Himself. Your brothers Mao and Stalin do not own human life neither can they create human life or claim to. On the other hand, God is the Owner of Heaven and earth and the Judge of everyone. Muse on that until you comprehend.

Oh so Gods are now giving themselves rights? In that case, Shiva has the right to do anything with his property. By the way, you're Shiva's property. Your Gods and Jesus do not own human life. Neither can they create human life even though they claim to. Shiva is the owner of the heavens and the earth.

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Dehumanization involves making and considering humans to be less than human, that is not what happened in Numbers that you allude to. Numbers 31 did not happen because of polarization or hate or extermination. Numbers 31 happened as judgement for events that took place in Numbers 25. Get your facts right please and be objective. Also, there is no denial or attempts to hide what happened. Those are common characteristics of genocides asides being a crime. i wonder what you mean or infer as God's "nefarious purposes". Can you be more plain? Again, i cannot make up for your lack of perspective. i can only attempt to help though you are bent on resisting help. For instance, see this passage from the Bible.
Act 25:24 And Festus said, King Agrippa, and all men which are here present with us, ye see this man, about whom all the multitude of the Jews have dealt with me, both at Jerusalem, and also here, crying that he ought not to live any longer.
Act 25:25 But when I found that he had committed nothing worthy of death, and that he himself hath appealed to Augustus, I have determined to send him.
Act 25:26 Of whom I have no certain thing to write unto my lord. Wherefore I have brought him forth before you, and especially before thee, O king Agrippa, that, after examination had, I might have somewhat to write.
Act 25:27 For it seemeth to me unreasonable to send a prisoner, and not withal to signify the crimes laid against him.

Paul did somethings that the jewish multitude thought of as a crime(s) and worthy of death. However, there was a higher government, the Roman government. The Roman government of Festus did not see Paul's actions as a crime of any sort, or worthy of death. He had a different perspective and a higher power. So even though many jews were totally convinced that Paul's actions were criminal, and even avowed to kill him. The higher and different perspective and law saw no crime in the actions. It is a similar thing with you and the divine perspective. Come out of your kindergarten perspective and worship the Lord of Heaven and Earth.

Again, your problem is with the English language or rather your poor attempts at self delusion. I have told you what your God did. I don't see what Paul has to do with you addressing your God's genocidal command. Or don't you think that genocide is a crime?

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No, i am saying God created man, created the earth, divided the red sea, used His prophets to raise the dead and perform many miracles. Do you also see this things before your very eyes? Are you afraid to consider all that God did in the Old Testament?

Obviously I'm considering what he did. That is why I brought up the clear genocide he commanded but you just keep twisting and deluding yourself.

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God cannot command genocide.

Yet he did.

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It is not a matter of shoes or clothes. We are in the last days, get that into your brain.
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to be presented with the options of the Old Testament(Covenant) when Jesus Christ already died. He shed His blood for this New Testament. i am talking reality while you are busy with wild and foolish impossibilities. i would not entertain foolish impossible questions and scenarios.
Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Your God is a genocidal maniac. Get that into your brain. How can it be impossible when some people were presented with it? What does Jesus' non-sacrifice have to do with whether or not your God commanded a genocide? I see that whenever I ask you to carefully think about your loyalty to your God, you get very scared.
I'm not contending about the law, but about the command issued by your God.

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God is not genocidal, who is the so called superior non-genocidal god BTW?
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.

Your God is genocidal according to your Bible. I'll give you two. Brahma and Ganesha

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You have not made your case in one quote in a post. You have instead multiplied and asked the same question and the same Numbers repeatedly as if you are programmed to do that. i have answered you on Numbers 31.

I'll keep asking that question until you answer it. No you've not answered it. The question remains whether or not you would have done as your God commanded in Numbers 31.

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Who bound God, you? Again, Vengeance belongs to God. i have explained it to you already as justice. Fellow humans cannot carry out justice for a crime on each other at will. Their are procedures and protocols. Even school children get this, it is a shame the devil keeps you from getting it. If somebody assaults you or beats yours up, you go to report to the authorities or teacher or principal. It is the authorities that then take up the necessary actions or punishments. You taking the law into your hands is the crime.
You have a problem, God avoided killing female children and you have a problem with it. God killed male and you have a problem with it. But you have no problem with the millions of abortion that you advocate for. Would you rather that God killed the young females too?

No, the very idea of morality. And I asked you if the genocide was punishment, you said it wasn't. Then what on earth are you saying here about justice? How can it be just to command a genocide when you're all powerful and all knowing? Even we mere humans say that other humans who command genocide have done something wrong how much more a God who should have known better? It is a sham that the devil keeps you from getting it. I don't believe what you're saying here. You think that it is a good thing that God kept female children as sex slaves while killing all male children was a good thing? How about not killing any children and not taking any of them into slavery? How about not harming any innocent person? Didn't that occur to your God?

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Actually, i am saying that God commanded the killings(like the penalty kick analogy), but that it is not a crime like genocide is because it is God and not man(like the referee and player/audience blowing the penalty whistle). Meditate on this until it dawns.

And here we have it. A crime is not a crime if it is commanded by God. This is why I say that with your God, all is permissible since according to you here, genocide is permissible when your God commands it.

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You lied that God supports abortion, fornication, unforgiveness, indecency, hate more than you. What is worth completing in that? i stated for the records, " For the records, contrary to what you said, God does not support abortion, or fornication, or unforgiveness, or indecency, or hate." What more is left to complete?
Can you die for me? Can you heal me? Can you give me air to breathe in and out for free? Can you take me to heaven? Can you answer my prayers? Can you write a book? These were the questions i asked, you took to your heels yet again, reminiscent of satan the devil. These are not pointless questions when you state that you are better than God. These are some few things you need to surpass to be better than God. Answer the questions and tell us clearly that you do not support and practice abortion, fornication, unforgiveness, indecency, hate.

Yet your God did all that when he commanded the genocide I showed you.

For some reason, you seem to think that those irrelevant questions somehow help your claims but I still find them ridiculously pointless. Assume I can't do any of those things, what follows from that?
Yes I'm better than your God because I am more moral than he is.

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God is righteous, He cannot and will not do anything unrighteous.

Yet he has commanded genocides. That means he is unrighteous.

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You are acting deluded now. You have yet to do any of these things.

See my responses above.

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Who/what do you worship?

I don't worship.

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At last, good of you and for you. You are being delivered from the shackles of photocopying Ingersoll's opinions as yours. From your definition of slavery as An institution or social practice of owning human beings as property, especially for use as forced laborers. i do not see how ignorance fits as a form, do you? i predict you will dodge the question, surprise yourself and myself.
So, your question was if it would be right if commanded by God. That is, if it would be right to own human beings, THEN especially as forced laborers. Would ANYTHING be right IF commanded by God? ANYTHING will be right IF commanded by God. It is therefore necessary to know what God will command and in what context. There is nothing wrong in owning human beings, it is your behaviour to human beings that is right or wrong and important, whether you own them or not. i own my children and so does my wife, they are mine. Do you have a sibling? Do you own/possess a sibling? Some people do not own you but they do worse things than owning or disowning you. Some cheat you, hate you, disrespect you, insult you, assault you without owning you. Again, owning is not a big issue, it is our relationship and behaviour to fellow humans that is important. Abraham had/owned many servants. They fared better than many a 'free' man. Now, the other part of "especially for use as forced laborers." Again, it is a matter of perspective. Usually, employment has some binding on it. You do not disobey the contract and terms of agreement. You are legally bound and there are penalties for going against agreement. Whether you are a sportsman, a teacher, a health worker etc, as far as you are working for or under somebody, you cannot do anyhow. In the Old Testament time, nations warred and carried captives as their labour or workforce. It is a foregone conclusion, everyone had the understanding of what it means to be under tribute or captivity. You either die or you surrender as a captive. Nations don't conquer other nations to become business partners or neighbours. How you treat your worker or labourer is what is important. And by far, Israel had very good relationship with their captives compared to other nations and to what many of us call slavery. Today however, there is no such room or thing in scriptures. In summary, Slavery IS NOT commanded by God. And even when it was, it was a very cordial thing compared to what was prevalent.

Of course you won't see it. Given the fact that in your ignorance, you've had to defend your evil God and think that your God owns you.

And this is a clear demonstration of the depravity you share with your God. Anything would be right if commanded by God? There is nothing wrong in owning human beings? Wow. Thank you for confirming my words all along. I always suspected that you too would go ahead and kill those babies if given the command.

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If i can correctly predict you, you are moving us out of what we are talking about so far with this your slavery and torture talk. Anyway, i hope you are ready because i am always ready. You are not God, God is not a man. You have being shown that you fail woefully using the standard of God's Word. That is the standard that matters on your judgement day. We cannot use the standard of the acts of God and deny the person of God, God is not a man. God can do many things that man cannot. God can fly, God can create, God can divide the sea and raise the dead.

Thank you. I would rather fail using the standard of your God's word since your God is evil. As Ingersoll said:

Ingersoll: If you take the cruel passages, the verses that inculcate eternal hatred, verses that writhe and hiss like serpents, you can make a creed that would shock the heart of a hyena.

I would rather not shock the heart of a hyena.

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In proper context.

I didn't change the context, you were trying to create some sort of special status for yourself.

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Tests are like refining processes. They are like growth stages. e.g
Pro 17:3 The refining pot is for silver, and the furnace for gold: but the LORD trieth the hearts.

I asked for the reason and you've given me a non-response. Why don't you simply tell me the reason? Or don't you know?

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Again, you don't have to quote things, try to make your points otherwise maybe. Ingersoll is not helping your cause. Did anybody ever kill his/her child because God told him/her to do so?
Stay in context. A righteous life is basically a life that pleases God. The point you were driving at was that God would punish people who were "helplessly" born in sin or a sinful nature. You were trying to prove that God should not expect us to live how He wants us to and avoid His punishment since we have the sin default. i have simply showed you people like you and i, who have pleased God despite their sin default, and because they overcame God will not punish them. You too can overcome.

You don't have to quote things either. You too can try to make your points in other ways. Ingersoll greatly helps my cause. Abraham wanted to kill his son because God told him to. Or have you forgotten?
I disagree with what you think makes a righteous life. I don't see how pleasing an evil God makes one's life righteous. Those people are not like me and as I've shown, pleasing your God sometimes means performing very evil acts. Also, you'll notice that for some reason, your God talked to those people directly but for some reason, he won't talk to me directly. You too can try to get him to talk to me.

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Here after my 4th quote, you said "Killing people when you can simply forgive them isn't a sign of love"
You have a sin default because you are RELATED to Adam. It is a law of sowing and reaping. If you are good, or rich or hardworking, your family and those around you or related to you benefit from it. Same thing if you are sick, or poor or in prison or unpopular, it affects those around you and related to you. We are all related to, and offsprings or descendants of Adam. We are of the same species, in fact, he is prime. However, that default does not hinder anybody from living a life that pleases God or repenting. Just like you do not have to stay in sickness or poverty just because your parents are poor or sick or irresponsible. There is a break away or get away clause which you have decided not to take but prefer to blame others except you. Do you advocate that we should simply forgive all sinners and defaulters? You skipped that. i do not recall saying that "everyone DESERVES to be punished because of what Adam did". You are trying to twist my words, nothing like this appear in what you quoted and i do not agree to that.

What I had in mind was the fact that you think that sin should be transmissible and the fact that you think killing Jesus would somehow make things okay. Are you saying that if someone is related to a thief, they should get the same punishment as the thief? What I'm driving at is why you think that sin should be transmissible at all. You keep saying that it is a law. I'm sorry but who made this the law? I didn't skip anything because as you'll happily point out, humans aren't God.

Do you think that the wages of sin should be death?

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It is not just according to me, do you think that people who commit crime deserve to be punished? Are they to be simply forgiven? i am talking reality and truth, not what i consider someone to deserve or not. Ronaldo of Portugal is World Footballer of the year 2014, that is reality and truth no matter how one argues about deserving or not. What anyone can do is try to work for 2015 and other future years. The child of a poor widow or Sicklecelled lady is suffering. That is reality and truth, it is not a matter of deserving or not. Arguing about whether it is deserved or not will not solve anything. The way forward and the proactive thing to do will be to take steps to correct or alleviate the situation, to learn from others who have walked that road etc. It is a similar thing with the children of Adam. We are all born with a sin default because of what Adam did. We ALSO commit many sins and our works are sinful giving us double reasons to be punished. We look for the escape route. A child is not in jail because his father is in jail. But the child is a child of a criminal by default. And circumstances and influence, society and perspective may also push him to be a criminal. But he can fight those forces and re-write or make a name for himself as a success.

That is if they commit a crime not just because they were born. Actually that argument has to be had because you keep on ignoring the fact that according to your beliefs, your God deliberately made sin magically transmissible from one person to another rather than in arising within each individual. Why should we all be guilty of what Adam did? That is the question you're not answering. Does the child being the child of a criminal mean the child should be sentenced to prison?

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"has" is more a 3rd person singular of have. If you removed the word 'has' from your sentence, you would communicate better and more correctly. "He commanded" is past tense on the plain. "He has commanded" is present. Stay close to that BG book i recommended. Genesis to Revelation is all the Word of God. If there is any scale of relevance(and i am of the opinion that there is none), the New Testament books are of more relevance, because we are in the New Testament period. It is the last days, you cannot change that. So, you have no reason why you would want to disobey 1Peter3v8-11? You asked me for 3 reasons why i would want to obey God and i obliged you by saying His wisdom, His omniscience and His love. When you say you care for people without the Bible, you talk like a man who doesn't use a gadget manual to do some basic things on the gadget because of some level of experience. You need to know or be reminded that the Bible is written to the whole world, that cuts across different strata and ages of human beings. It is the human manual. You may not need to look at a manual to know how to lock and unlock your phone for some reason, but the manual shows plainly how best to operate the phone and keep it optimized. So also is the Word of God to everyone. It is the guide for humanity to function at its best, not just a guide to the ultimate Heaven or afterlife. Over time and generations of civilisation, Biblical principles have become assimilated and ingrained into many cultures, laws and policies so that some don't even need to open a Bible to know that hardwork, honesty, generosity, being courteous etc are best practices for mankind. Nobody can say the manual is useless or irrelevant no matter how good or conversant you have become with an equipment or gadget. Especially when you have not even responded to the most important thing, which concerns your eternity. Time is a minute fraction of life and the Bible deals with that, but of much importance also is eternity. How do you spend eternity, you need that Bible.

All this just to avoid my direct questions. Here they are again. Are you aware that according to your Bible, your God ordered Israelites to kill babies? Are you aware that your God ordered Abraham to kill his child?

I'm sure you can answer these questions starting with a yes or no. I still don't need your Bible to care about people and if you must know, there were civilizations before the Bible was written who also cared about people. Over the years, many laws found in the Bible have been rejected as being inhumane while others even predate the Bible. Rather than giving another long response, simply begin by answering the questions above.

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Is a human being killing a chicken murder? Is a farmgirl milking a cow assault? i have explained in different ways and perspectives how an act can change with respect to the doer. It is left to you to process.

No that isn't murder or assault. Now will you answer my question? Here it is again. Is commanding the killing of old people, all males, babies and adults while keeping the young female babies and virgins to be used genocide? I'm sure you can start your answer with a yes or no.

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Mercury is a heavy atom, with electrons held close to the nucleus because of their speed and consequent mass increase. With mercury, the bonds between its atoms are weak, so mercury melts at lower temperatures and is typically a liquid when we see it. This demonstrates the theory of relativity. Nothing demonstrates or shows that man evolved from apes or that the earth was formed by some bang.

You have successfully said rubbish. It is amazing that you could say such rubbish when you have access to the Internet. What you've said says nothing about the theory of relativity. Comparative anatomy, comparative physiology, biochemistry, embryology, genetics, biogeography, paleontology and many other fields demonstrate the theory of evolution.

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Are Matthew 5 and Romans 5 irrelevant? You have repeatedly avoided them and instead brought up Numbers which is already being discussed in other paragraphs and quotes. According to Matthew 5 and Romans 5, God is Love.

They're not as relevant as Numbers because in Numbers, we have God himself being quoted while Matthew and Romans were written by people expressing their opinions. Secondly, I'm showing you how depraved your God is not how people who don't know him think he is good.

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You argue needlessly even when it is clear you made a mistake. The context and line of discussion was about you using marijuana, and i insisted that you should stop using even if it is not banned in your area. Anyway that is BTW though i trust you to aimlessly pursue it. If someone 'loses' a child/children, it doesn't deter the joy of a newborn. You are the ignorant one here in disbelieving the possibility of an afterlife.

Yet we have your God speaking as if one child can just be substituted for another. Not believing in somethign when there is no evidence for it is what reasonable people do. Gullible people believe things without evidence.

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You said that God made it a crime to think. Did you or did you not? It was in your explanation/elaboration that you presented and by inference equated having different ideas as thinking. And what you refer to as different idea is called treason, sedition and disobedience to constituted authority. Freedom comes with a price. You are not free to take my property, no matter how free you think the world should be.
When you talk about WE no longer killing people for not worshipping God, WE never killed people for not worshipping God. Yet another unnecessary and unwarranted distraction and fallacy.

What you're calling treason and what not in order to justify killing people is what we consider to be making it a crime to think. After all, why do you think that today, such people won't be punished? Why is it that today, non-believers in that same God aren't being killed in civilized societies? This is why I asked you earlier if you would agree with evidence. Now, you have the evidence before you but you've decided to brand anyone who doesn't believe in your God as committing treason and what not. And that is the true evil in your religion. If you people had the power you used to, people like me would probably be getting killed just like people in that Bible passage.

I presented you with a passage where people were killed for not worshipping your God, you read it and just flat out denied what was before your very eyes. It is truly amazing how your religion can warp your mind so.

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IF i say Adam caused everything, kindly remember the context. Adam is not responsible for your committed sins, your lying, your debauchery, your ungodly stance on abortion etc. Adam is responsible for your being a sinner by nature, you are responsible for being a sinner by deed. Still, God bore the responsibility by starting the reconciliation. He came to Adam while he was hiding and making excuses. God promised and provided a solution. That ultimate solution was Jesus Christ, the last Adam. Have you considered that evolution is fictional? God tested Adam(or allowed Adam to be tested) to refine him. Like you refine oil, gold and other minerals so that they can be more useful and efficient for you.

If I am a sinner by nature because God didn't want to stop the transmission of Adam's sin, then it is still your God's fault. Jesus Christ was not a solution. It was simply your God allegedly killing another person for fun. I have considered the theory of evolution and determined that it isn't fictional. If God wanted Adam to be "refined", why didn't he simply create a better Adam?

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Keep on assuming if it makes you sleep well at night. However, if you want eternal life, you know what to do. You have being told.

Is it your desire for eternal life that makes you chase after your metaphorical God?

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You initially said "with your God's commands in Numbers, we know that your God is even worse than Stalin and Pol Pot combined.". You lost all objectivity right there so covering it up does not remove the fact. Now, God judging the world is different from humans taking one another's lives. Your brothers Mao and Stalin do not own human life neither can they create human life or claim to. On the other hand, God is the Owner of Heaven and earth and the Judge of everyone. If He does anything with His property, it is because He has all right to.

Of course you'll say I'm not being objective but then, I'm the one calling a genocidal maniac what it is. Who gave God that right? If we're just dashing out rights, then I deny your God that right. As I've said, your God is worse than both of them combined. As far as I can tell, your God is worse than Mao and Stalin combined so I wonder why you keep calling on them when you have your God to look at.

Hmm pastorpreneur.

Business is now in session.

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You have lost all objectivity, how many millions did Pol Pot and Stalin kill compared to Numbers, not to even try mentioning Mao? Mao alone makes all the so called christian crusades of the dark ages combined look like a birthday party. Not to even add the fact that those crusades were anti-god.

Your God ordered the killing of babies, recommended slavery, recommended that young women be used and he is going to torture most of humanity in hell. Pol Pot and Stalin combined don't even touch your God since he will torture far more people than either of them in addition to what he already did while knowing better.

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God never commanded genocide in Numbers. It appears you forget that genocide is a crime, that alone is enough disqualification. But i will generously add the fact that genocide always has the characteristics of DEHUMANIZATION, POLARIZATION, HATE, EXTERMINATION and DENIAL. you make the vain attempt to be disruptive when you twist God's judgement as a crime.

Then it looks like your problem is with the English language and definitions. Your God did all that when he commanded the killing of all males, old people while keeping young females for his nefarious purposes. You claim genocide is God's judgement. That is just how depraved you and your God are.

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God created man, created the earth, divided the red sea, used His prophets to raise the dead and perform many miracles. Do you also see this things before your very eyes? Are you afraid to consider all that God did in the Old Testament? God commanded killings in judgement, because He is the Giver of life and Creator of all. Also, they were not random and thoughtless but due to the persistent evil of the said people. Face the facts, little children suffer from the consequences of their parents actions. If a parent is lazy, or careless, or criminal, their actions can land them in trouble like debt, poverty, prison, death, disease, hereditary problems etc. Their families(small or big) suffer from this due to the relationship. If you refuse to face this realities of life, too bad for you. Yours is a common case of millions of lives that the devil deceives every time and at his will.
Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Jesus Christ came to set you free.

So you're saying genocide was God's punishment?

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God owns human life, your brothers do not.

So when God commands genocide as punishment, it is not evil?

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i cannot be in their shoes, don't you get it? i am in New Testament shoes and will remain there till Jesus comes, start reading your Bible. It is an IMPOSSIBILITY for the covenant to be changed to the Old. Jesus already DIED, the blood of the New Testament has already been shed. There is no amount of money or known technology presently that can take me or anyone into the Old Testament era/age. Your question remains foolish.

So because you cannot be in someone's shoes, you're unable to tell what you would do if you were presented with the options? Are you this foolishly ignorant about yourself or are just failing once again to be dishonest? Well, all this tells me is that you would actually kill people if your God told you to because a reasonable person would refuse to obey such a command and would be proud to say it.

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What are your parameters?

One of them is morality. Your God is genocidal and that makes him inferior to a non-genocidal God.

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When you do that several times already, it is called doubling or multiplying folly, which doesn't make it any wiser. Make your case in one quote in a post.

I already did that but you kept avoiding it. You're welcome to address it when you're feeling brave. Once again, read what your God commanded in Numbers 31 and tell me if you would have obeyed such a command.

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As long as the definition of genocide involves it being a criminal act, and an act carried out by humans to humans, then God can never do it. God is not a man, neither can He commit a crime. Very simple. Vengeance belongs to God. i have explained it to you already as justice. Fellow humans cannot carry out justice for a crime on each other at will. Their are procedures and protocols. Even school children get this, it is a shame the devil keeps you from getting it. If somebody assaults you or beats yours up, you go to report to the authorities or teacher or principal. It is the authorities that then take up the necessary actions or punishments. You taking the law into your hands is the crime. If two students do that, it is called fighting and they will both be expelled or punished. But when the teacher does it, that is punishment. i don't know how else i can explain this simple things more clearly to you.

Your God is supposed to be a moral agent and thus is bound by that idea. You can explain things by telling me why you think genocide is sometimes okay because that is what you're doing when you say it is okay for God to command it as punishment. And this is when this God could easily have avoided killing non guilty parties like male babies. And you can also tell me why God felt keeping those young females would help him.

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The Isrealites were believers. The command was not genocide as that is a crime, the command was judgement. In Numbers 31, the Midianites were to be killed. All the midianites were to be killed.
Num 31:3 And Moses spoke unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the LORD of Midian.

Again, i have explained to you the point you are blindly driving at. If the referee gives a penalty kick for a foul against soccer player Messi, it is okay and legal. If a fellow player gives a penalty kick for a foul against soccer player Messi, it is chaos and illegal. Get an authentic perspective.

Your confusion runs really deep. You're saying that God commanded genocide and didn't command genocide. Just go to bed because you're drunk and high.

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Whether or not you support and practice abortion, fornication, unforgiveness, indecency, hate etc is meaningless? Are you for real? You see why i am right to compare you to Mao Zedong and your other brothers? Life is meaningless to you all, it is only a matter of what you think logical ATM. You have no moral base, it is all boiling down to your thinking ability and your figuring things out in your little context. For the records, contrary to what you said, God does not support abortion, or fornication, or unforgiveness, or indecency, or hate.
i would ask again, Can you die for me? Can you heal me? Can you give me air to breathe in and out for free? Can you take me to heaven? Can you answer my prayers? Can you write a book? These were the questions i asked, you took to your heels yet again, reminiscent of satan the devil. Answer the questions and tell us clearly that you do not support and practice abortion, fornication, unforgiveness, indecency, hate.

You should have completed my statement. I said whether or not I support them is meaningless because your God supports them even more than any human ever could. Asking me pointless questions does nothing to exculpate your evil God.

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No, because it is Old testament and because God is the Owner, Giver and Creator of all human life having the rights to take it and give it. And also because there is a much longer afterlife in which all innocent people will be in paradise irrespective of how they died on earth.
Pro 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

So bad things commanded by God in the Old Testament are good? So God has the right to command genocide? Then based on what you've said, with God, all is permitted. This means with God, even genocide is permitted.

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You could be more specific. You have not shown or demonstrated that you know more or better than anybody. You have told us that your supporting hate and abortion is meaningless. You have displayed that you have no value for human life but you are only interested in telling us that God is evil. What then should we call you, an advocate for the millions of abortions that take place annually?

I've shown that I'm better than your God and that your God supports all the things you've listed as evil.

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You are deceived.

This from someone who worships a genocidal maniac.

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Ingersoll thinks ignorance is the ONLY form of slavery, what do you think? You have told us here that Ingersoll's writings are good and sensible and you seem to rate them higher than the Scriptures. So, it is only okay to go straight to the point and ask your perspective. To be fair again to you, i have asked you to define slavery but you skipped it. i will ask again, What is slavery? It is important to know that so that i can know the question and context/perspective i am answering. i will answer your question, i am not you that keeps sidestepping and throwing red herrings and diversions.

I think that ignorance is a form of slavery not necessarily the only form. Now answer my question.
Hmm. So you don't know what slavery is? Well here's a dictionary definition to help you.

Wiktionary: An institution or social practice of owning human beings as property, especially for use as forced laborers.

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SHould i use the same standard of reading the Bible to declare that you are immoral? What is clear is this; if we use the STANDARD of reading the Bible, you are immoral and God is moral.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Exo 15:11 Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? who is like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?

So, permit me to ask again, should we take it BY YOUR WORD that God is immoral but you are moral? For all i know, You are a sinning sinner headed for hell fire. Repent and be born again before your sins find you out. Most of your good neighbours, co-workers, family members, relatives, probably parents are professing christians. Go and ask them how good they would be if they did not obeying God. Watch your tenses BTW.

And if we use the standard of the acts your God commanded and committed, your God is immoral and so are you. Read your Bible and ask yourself whether or not you would command or commit genocide, keep women for your "use", torture people for many years and other atrocious acts your God commanded.

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And two people can have a discussion.

Using words and ideas that other people share.

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i have consistently re-iterated BTW that man was the one being tested and not God. When you test oil or water, it is that oil, water, gold that is being tested and refined, not the refiner/examiner. When are you going to process that? Tests are like refining processes. e.g
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Why was man being tested? Was it because God didn't know something about them?

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You implied being forced when you said "if we're going to be quoting writings". WE don't have to, i choose to quote the Bible especially as it appears to be 'on trial'. Did anybody ever kill his/her child because god told him/her to do so? Or what is your basis for ridiculous questions? You have no idea what righteousness is BTW.
Again, the men i mentioned; Abraham, Paul, Job, Daniel, Peter were all able to live righteous lives despite being born with a sin nature. Your sin nature is not an excuse for you, this is the point you should stress yourself focusing on. Remember all the good people around you including your family and relatives who have made the Word of God their moral guide.

How on earth does saying "if we're going to be quoting things" imply being forced? Abraham was going to kill his son wasn't he? Or don't you know what your Bible contains?
If those ones lived righteous lives, then I'm living a righteous life and so did Ingersoll.If you're saying that one needs your God to be righteous, then you have no idea how evil your God is.

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Its not rubbish for people to pay for their crimes. You asked why people should pay for their crimes instead of simply being forgiven as a sign of love. Do you advocate that we should simply forgive all sinners and defaulters? You skipped that. i do not recall saying that "everyone deserves to be punished because of what Adam did". i have repeatedly reiterated that your sin nature(which is from Adam) is not an excuse for you. i mentioned examples of men like you and me who escaped punishment and pleased God despite Adam. Every man would be rewarded and punished ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS. On why we don't start off on a clean slate, because we are born of Adam. You are connected to your father, you don't throw away relationships. There is a working connection to tribe, country, state of origin, blood, geneology/ancestry etc.

What you've rephrased as my question is not my question. My question again, is why should everyone deserve to be punished for Adam's sin. Now you claim not to have said what I've pointed out that you said. Let me quote you.

Image123: The root cause of your sin default state and you being the way you are is Adam your father. If Adam had not sinned, you would not have a sin default. It has also being shown you how your human mates are getting out of that sin default while you keep looking for who to blame, just like Adam your father.

If according to you, people who sin deserve punishment and we're already in sin as default, then you're saying everyone deserves to be punished because of what Adam did.

Do you think it is right to jail a child because their father was a criminal? Because that is the implication of what you're saying here about relationships.

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You miss your tenses lessons again, have you forgotten so soon? God has not commanded the killing of babies, you are not and i am not commanded to kill any baby.Here are some of His commandments for YOU.
1Pe 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
1Pe 3:9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
1Pe 3:10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
1Pe 3:11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

This is what is RIGHT BEFORE YOU, you are actually the one being obtuse by facing what does not apply to YOU. When you truly do what God wants, it ensues peace, prosperity, progress and power, both for you and for your fellow man and the society at large. And it gives you the benefit of an enjoyable afterlife as well. Read again the passage i quoted and tell me any three reasons why you would want to disobey them. i asked you first but you ducked as is customary. i will oblige you; like i have said you are free to your reasons for obeying God. i obey God because of His wisdom, His omniscience and His love for me. Those are three reasons, now answer mine.

What exactly is wrong with my tenses? Are you aware that "has" can be used to refer to past events? Are you aware that according to your Bible, your God ordered Israelites to kill babies? Are you aware that your God ordered Abraham to kill his child?

You're quoting Peter while I'm quoting God himself. Who do you think has more relevance?

I see nothing interesting about that passage because I don't need the Bible to care about people. Do you? I already care about people without the Bible. You did not oblige me because you did not answer my question.

Ingersoll: On the other hand, if you would take the foolish passages, the extreme ones, you could make a creed that would satisfy an insane asylum. If you take the cruel passages, the verses that inculcate eternal hatred, verses that writhe and hiss like serpents, you can make a creed that would shock the heart of a hyena.

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God cannot commit a crime, therefore God did not command genocide. This is straight, simple and obvious logic.

Is commanding the killing of old people, all males, babies and adults while keeping the young female babies and virgins to be used genocide?

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Talk is cheap, You can demonstrate relativity and gravity and see it in real and everyday scenarios. It is unlike saying that man evolved from apes as how man came to be. That is silly, empty and baseless.

Then please demonstrate the theory of relativity and the theory of gravitation. Again, whining about the theory of evolution doesn't make it false.

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Still throwing in the red-herring? God fits the context of your definition of love very well, face that fact. i was demonstrating God's love to you from Matthew 5 and Romans 5. You repeatedly avoided and evaded that and the text but bring up something about Numbers. You change the context and sidestep the issue repeatedly and deliberately by ignoring the two texts i presented. God has done no evil, ADDRESSED. Now face the texts from Romans and Matthew.

I've not sidestepped anything. The things I brought up in Numbers is relevant that is why I brought them up. They demonstrate your God's evil nature. Ignoring it and typing addressed in capital letters doesn't help you. Please can you explain how the evil in Numbers is a red herring when considering whether or not your God is evil?

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Stop using marijuana STILL. Job's friends apparently had more philosophy and brain power than Ingersoll could ever muster in two lifetimes, Job still outsmarted them and was justified in the end. It is a smart thing to trust in the Lord. It is a fact that Ingersoll was used of the devil and is currently in torments waiting to be cast into the lake of fire. You don't know it, so you are free to think it an assertion.

Hmm I see. Your problem is with the English language. A still can also to a distillery. That was why your earlier statement made no sense to me. I don't use marijuana. Apparently Job in his smartness thought that one child can be replaced by another. Talk about an ignorant heartless person. Well, Job is in currently being tormented in the lake of fire.

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Oh, so idolatry and disobedience equals to thinking, interesting. you said that God made it a crime to think. So, you imply that disobedience to constituted authority is thinking? Is that the way you do it where you live? Treason and sedition is your right to think? This is what we are saying, you are only harmless and insignificant because you are not in position. you have the same godless mind and ideology of your ilk Pol Pot, Stalin and Mao Zedong.

More irrelevant issues. I said I had evidence of God killing people for having different ideas and I presented the evidence. Now why have you not changed your mind? Is it because you were lying? Note that what you're calling disobedience was people who had a different idea. Do you know why we no longer kill pepole for not worshipping your God? Well if you're saying that Pol Pot, Stalin and Mao also didn't believe in your God, I see no problem with that statement. After all, there are mass murderers who believed in your God so what is your point?

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Yes, because you are too lazy and have no backbone to take responsibility.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
This is the default state, and if Adam had passed the test like Jesus did, we would have being in that image. you want God to take full responsibilities for your sins and your sinful state. For your lying, your debauchery, your ungodly stance on abortion, all of it. But you do not want Him to be responsible for your academic achievement or whatever other achievement you may have. that is irresponsibility, just like Adam your father.

You want me to take responsibility when you say Adam caused everything? Well why doesn't God take some responsibility? Or are you too lazy to see that far? Have you considered that both God and Adam are fictional? My point is that you're being inconsistent when you blam Adam but not God. Why did God test Adam? Was he ignorant? Or not yet omnipotent?

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Backtracking? No, you are the one actually lying and attempting to twist meanings.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
2Sa 22:32 For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?
A Rock is symbolic of a defence or refuge, that is the sense in which believers see God like a Rock. he is Our defence and refuge.

Psa 42:1 To the chief Musician, Maschil, for the sons of Korah. As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.
Psa 63:1 A Psalm of David, when he was in the wilderness of Judah. O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;
Isa 41:17 When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue faileth for thirst, I the LORD will hear them, I the God of Israel will not forsake them.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

God is like water in the sense that people thirst for Him and would continue to despite the attempts to dissuade. Billions of people are looking for God in one form or the other, and only the true God can truly satisfy that thirst and search.

So your God is only metaphorically like rock and water? Maybe your God is entirely metaphorical then.

Did Goodluck Jonathan ever make his finances public?

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Don't start off with this pettiness, get your acts right and consider the facts.

The facts have been considered and I've come to the conclusion that other people use words.

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On what basis or standard do you conclude or think that God doesn't need a test. For the most part, you are a confused man, thinking God does not need a test and spending your life testing Him. Thank God for freedom to think. i have consistently re-iterated BTW that man was the one being tested and not God. When you test oil or water, it is that oil, water, gold that is being tested and refined, not the refiner/examiner.

On the basis that the purpose of a test is to reveal to the tester something that they don't know. If your God actually knew everything, then he won't need to test people because testing people means that you don't know something about them.

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You are not forced to quote writings. Emphasis on the word IF in bold in your quote. While to you, death is the end of life, in reality and ....
Your sin nature is not an excuse for you, this is the point you should stress yourself focusing on. Remember all the good people around you including your family and relatives who have made the Word of God their moral guide.

I never said I was forced. You're not forced to quote your Bible. Given your belief in life and death, would you kill your child if God told you to do so? That is the question you've still not answered. It is not righteous to be ready to kill your son because some God told you to do so. Or do you think that is a righteous act?

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You have got to be joking. There are punishments and penalties for criminals, offenders and sinners. You don't just SIMPLY forgive. Do you advocate that we should simply forgive all sinners and defaulters? Let us simply forgive all robbers, killers, thieves, liars, rapists, ...
yet enemies and sinners, He died for us. He made the first step even though we were the ones that offended Him.

Once again, you're saying rubbish. You've said that everyone deserves to be punished because of what Adam did. My question is why should everyone deserve to be punished for that reason? Why didn't your God allow everyone one else to start off with a clean slate? That is what I was referring to. Also, killing someone else for another person's wrong doing doesn't help anyone.

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Again, God does not command you to kill anybody. Here are some of His commandments for YOU.
...
disobey them.

And I'm telling you that your God has commanded the killing of babies. He commanded Abraham to kill his child. Stop being obtuse and face what is right before you. Doing what God wants leads to doing evil like killing babies as he commanded the Israelites to do in the Bible. Read the passages I'm referring to and give me three reasons why you would want to obey him.

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Not at all. In my quote, you can clearly read the second sentence as a literate. It says " Genocide is a CRIME."

Well then you're clearly confused because if genocide is a crime, and God commanded genocide, then God has commanded people to perform a crime. This is simple logic.

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The point again is that gravity and relativity are not silly theories. You can also demonstrate them and see it in real and everyday scenarios. It is unlike saying that man evolved from apes as how man came to be. That is silly, empty and baseless. The article i referred you to show how relativity can be demonstrated like you requested AND LIKE I SAID in real and everyday scenarios..

And I'm telling you that if you think the theory of evolution is silly, then for you to be consistent, you have to think that the theory of gravitation and the theory of relativity are silly. You're merely saying that you're inconsistent.

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No, God made no mistake. i simply showed you something you can relate with so that you can relatively and objectively use it in your ...
fixation on six month old babies and your distaste and dismissal for millions of babies in the womb that are aborted annually.

Was it not the same God that gave the command in Numbers? How is it misleading to point out that an evil person has commanded evil acts in the past? The fact that you think they're doing good things now doesen't excuse the evil. Until you address the evil that your God commanded, you won't have a leg to stand on.

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Stop using still. Job was the greatest of all the men of the east. Ingersoll would die instantly of inferiority complex just standing next to him. You do know that it is a fact that Ingersoll was used of the devil and is currently in torments waiting to be cast into the lake of fire.

What does a still have to do with anything? If Job were a real person, he would have repented of his foolishness if he had encountered Ingersoll. No that is not a fact, it is a mere assertion from someone afraid of "the lake of fire".

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Of course, why not? First things first.
-Who are the people that God once ordered to be killed for having different ideas, i'd like to discuss the context.

I have a few. You can take a look at these references.
Exodus 32:19 to 32:28.
Numbers 16:1 to 16:32
You need to get to know your Bible.

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-Does God order that people be killed for having different ideas? You sidestepped the question again again again.

See the references above.

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Yeah yeah, and God is the cause of your academic achievements, right?

That's what you would think.

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How is it misused. i would have being surprised at your dishonesty if i didn't know your sinful nature from the Bible. You cannot help it, only Jesus can save you from the pit of lies you are enmeshed in. i said God is LIKE Rock, Water etc but He is not Rock, Water, Sun etc. You are helplessly(like one possessed) forcing an interpretation that God is inanimate.

Now you're backtracking? Well you're free to do that. In what sense is your God like rock and water?

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With these i can be moral.
1Pe 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
1Pe 3:9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
1Pe 3:10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
1Pe 3:11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

Without the above, we both know what the likes of your brothers Stalin and Pol Pot did with their godless views of morality.

And with your God's commands in Numbers, we know that your God is even worse than Stalin and Pol Pot combined.

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Why do you think genocide is not fine, i think i've seen you defending the killing of babies in the womb? For me, genocide is never fine.

Why do you support the genocide commanded by God in Numbers?
Are you asking the question on genocide based on your ignorance of it being evil or are you trying to be disruptive?

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What is just before my very eyes again? i do not see any genocide before my very eyes. i see God created man, created the earth, divided the red sea, used His prophets to raise the dead and perform many miracles. Do you also see this things before your very eyes? Are you afraid to consider all that God did in the Old Testament?

So you've not read the passages in the Bible where your God commanded people to be killed? Even small children? This has to be the worst expression of dishonesty I've seen in a while.

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Of course, it is because you lack the opportunity. We have already seen your views about millions of babies that die every year due to abortion. We know how you value human life, it is all a matter of what is logical/rational to you at the moment. Go and do the maths and ratio of deaths and evils by so called godly/bible following people compared to godless ones.
Again, "i refuse to follow a godless ideology like yours and your brothers- Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao Zedong. Their deeds due to inability to follow God and His ideology and morality not only shocked hyena hearts but killed hyenas at once. They made the poison of the cobra taste like milk, and made the dastardly acts of the religious crusades seem like a massage."

For some reason, you keep calling on Stalin and Pol Pot when your God is worse than both of them combined. If you think what Stalin and Pol Pot did was evil, then why are you afraid of calling the killing commanded by God in Numbers evil?

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What i would do in an impossible situation? There is no amount of money or known technology presently that can take me or anyone into the Old Testament era/age. Your question remains foolish.

Then you're more foolish than I thought. I'm asking what you would do if you were in their shoes and you're moaning that it is an impossible situation. Yet according to your Bible, your God placed some people in that impossible situation. I sense your panic and will continue to press your foolish self on it.

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Any parameter you give. Good to see you realise the point and context at last.

Well by my parameters, your God is inferior. Good to see you accept the inferiority of your God.

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Doubling or multiplying folly doesn't make it any wiser. Make your case in one quote in a post.

I did that several times already. Read what your God did in Numbers 31. Denying evil doesn't make it good.

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God did not command or commit genocide. You may need to write that down repeatedly on foolscap papers until you get it.
The media reports to us that boko haram has killed about 14,000 people over the yearS as nauseating as they are. The people you are ...
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

What your God did meets the definition of genocide so misusing language is just another foolish method. You call killing babies adequate punishment, I call it genocide as defined.

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You that have read the Bible and knows the meaning of the word. How come you have failed to prove your point? Hear this again, GOD DID NOT COMMAND BELIEVERS TO COMMIT GENOCIDE.

Weren't the Israelites your God commanded in Numbers 31 believers? What was the content of God's command in that passage? Who did God ask them to kill in that passage? What were the ages of people he asked them to kill in that passage?

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You that supports and practices abortion, fornication, unforgiveness, indecency, hate etc.
Can you die for me? Can you heal me? Can you give me air to breathe in and out for free? Can you take me to heaven? Can you answer my prayers? Can you write a book? These were the questions i asked, you took to your heels yet again, reminiscent of satan the devil. Answer the questions and tell us clearly that you do not support and practice abortion, fornication, unforgiveness, indecency, hate

Whether or not I support them is meaningless because your God supports them even more than any human ever could. By your own words, you've convicted your God of being evil.

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Oh, its my own words you want, not really the answer. The Israelites were askED to kill every male and the women, except the little females to avenge the death of thousands of Israelites.
Pro 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

And you don't think there's anything wrong with such a command?

thehomer 16012015: Evil men see the evil commanded by their God yet call it good.

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Already did, maybe you could be more specific?

My entire posts show a good use of reasoning.

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That statement is correct, you must have read me say same a couple of times.

Yet you support the command given by your God to commit what amounts to genocide. Then you're confused.

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Is ignorance the only slavery? Ingersoll thinks it is, what do you think? What is slavery?

Whatever you think slavery is, would it be right if it were commanded by God? That is the question you're supposed to answer. Answer that first then we can get to your other questions or you can open another thread for them to be addressed but first, answer my question.
What you're trying to do above is an example of a red herring. You're trying to use these questions to avoid answering my question on the moral status of slavery based on what your God recommends.

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So, we should take it BY YOUR WORD that God is immoral but you are moral? You are a sinning sinner headed for hell fire. Repent and be born again before your sins find you out. Most of your good neighbours, co-workers, family members, relatives, probably parents are professing christians. Go and ask them how good they would be if they did not obeying God.

Don't take it by my word, read your Bible. Pay attention to the depraved acts he demands of people and come to your conclusion.

What sort of ghoulish vultures are you people who support this charlattan? He made this so called prediction last year, why didn't he give the names of the perpetrators and the date that it would occur? Or was his God asleep as usual?

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Next time, don't act like you are under a spell then, we are the two people discussing.

That fact doesn't mean that other people don't use words. We're not the only people who exist you know.

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What things could He have set up without the tree? You have conveniently skipped that twice now. You said He shouldn't use the tree as a test, so give us ideas nah of what He should have used. Okay, i figure you have taken my explanation in the first three sentences.
... Again, i showed you that the DEVIL tested Jesus, how many times do you have to be told before you assimilate?

Are you drunk or high? I told you that a God doesn't need a test. Or do you think God doesn't know some things and for that reason, needs a test? Does the fact that man needs tests mean that God needs tests? In that case, since man needs to be tested, then God too needs to be tested.

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It makes me laugh how you quote Ingersoll in revenge of any time i quote a Bible verse. When i say you worship Ingersoll now, or that Ingersoll is your Bible, you start denying. None of the men i mentioned would kill their son because someone just tells them to ......i mentioned; Abraham, Paul, Job, Daniel, Peter were all able to live righteous lives despite being born with a sin nature. Your sin nature is not an excuse for you, this is the point you should stress yourself focusing on.

I like quoting him because if we're going to be quoting writings, I might as well use good and sensible writings.
You seriously think that it is the right thing to kill your child if God told you to do so? This is why I say your God is depraved and someone who will follow such commands is depraved too.

[quote author = Robert Ingersoll]Of course, many important things would be left out. You would have nothing about human rights, nothing in favor of the family, nothing for education, nothing for investigation, for thought and reason, but still you would have a fairly good moral guide. On the other hand, if you would take the foolish passages, the extreme ones, you could make a creed that would satisfy an insane asylum. If you take the cruel passages, the verses that inculcate eternal hatred, verses that writhe and hiss like serpents, you can make a creed that would shock the heart of a hyena. It may be that no book contains better passages than the New Testament, but certainly no book contains worse. Below the blossom of love you find the thorn of hatred; on the lips that kiss, you find the poison of the cobra. The Bible is not a moral guide. Any man who follows faithfully all its teachings is an enemy of society and will probably end his days in a prison or an asylum.[/quote]

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God SO loved us that He gave His only Son. While we were yet enemies and sinners, He died for us. He made the ...meets your definition of love as "An intense feeling of affection and care towards another person." i take it the fear of hell is an incentive for many.

No that doesn't meet it either. Killling people when you can simply forgive them isn't a sign of love. So, you now have two examples of your God not being loving.

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Funny fellow. Anyways, FIRSTLY God does not command you to do any injustice. i showed you some of His commands to you but y...Pe 3:10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
1Pe 3:11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

... If those are your motivations, i have absolutely no qualms but those are not mine. The negatives are realities that can happen, i agree, but they are not what drive me to do whatever i do.

Have you forgotten that your God commanded the killing of babies? That he commanded Abraham to kill his child?
Are you saying that there are no actual reasons for me to do what your God wants? If you're not saying that, then please tell me the reasons why I should do what your God wants.

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No it doesn't, i have explained why and i will again. Genocide is a CRIME. What God did is not a crime. i do not deny, neither am i ashamed of whatever God did or does, but labelling it wrongly is what i do not agree to.
... Mine intellect is just a little bit greater than my baby's or dog's, compared to yours and God's. If you do not understand why or what God does, it doesn't mean He should not do what He did/does.

Are you saying that sometimes, genocide is not a crime?

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Yes i can, i studied some physics. For your perusal
...h.

That's not a demonstration of relativity, that is a popular article on the topic. I can get you popular topics on the theory of evolution too. The fact is that the theory of evolution is not a silly theory. It has been demonstrated. Merely whining and complaining about the theory is not an argument against it.

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...other paragraphs of the post, we will address your fantasies. God fits the context of your definition of love very well, face that fact.

So was your God making mistakes when he was in the Old Testament? I've not seen you demonstrate any red-herring or explain to me the relevance of saying that some scientists made mistakes when they were young unless you think that it somehow means that God should be pardoned because he was young when he "inspired" the Old Testament. My obsession with 6 month old babies is just to show you how depraved your God is.

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One has to be using banned substances like marijuana to say this above quote, please stop using. ....
...[/color]

Marijuana is only banned in some places. Job was a fool who God toyed with. So would you be happy if God killed your first three children only to give you another set of three children? This is why I say some of you Christians either haven't properly thought of your religion or are just so depraved that you uphold atrocities as being good.

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Hahahaha, see dodging. Hypocrite. You said that God made it a crime to think, and that God once ordered that people should be ...-Does God order that people be killed for having different ideas? You sidestepped the question again again again.

As I said, I'm willing to go into this if you can simply state that you're willing to change your mind based on information.

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...ot have a sin default...Stop deceiving yourself even when the devil is not doing it.

The default state is the one that God brought about. Stop blaming Adam for what God caused. The more I look at some of what God did, one can reasonably say that maybe the Bible was written by a being so depraved that he wanted to see what he could get people to believe.

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you've got to be kidding me. Scratch that completely, i learnt similes and metaphors as far back as when i was a kid. i said ...Rock, Water, Sun etc. Your educational background may need to be called to question if you still do not get this.

Apparently you didn't learn it well because you keep misusing it and the concepts it represents. If something is like something, it is like that thing otherwise you're just talking gibberish. If I say human hair is like rope, then human hair is like rope. Your educational background has always been in question.

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What? You want me to reject the Word of God and what He tells me to do?
...i end up sharing similar views to you. i hope not to. We all know what the likes of your brothers Stalin and Pot did with their godless views of morality.

No. If you knew how to read and knew anything about morality, you'll quickly realize that your God is not moral and that your God is not needed for morality. In fact, you'll quickly realize that with your God, you cannot be moral.

Robert Ingersoll: These religions teach the slave virtues. They make inanimate things holy, and falsehoods sacred. They create artificial crimes. To eat meat on Friday, to enjoy yourself on Sunday, to eat on fast-days, to be happy in Lent, to dispute a priest, to ask for evidence, to deny a creed, to express your sincere thought, all these acts are sins, crimes against some god, To give your honest opinion about Jehovah, Mohammed or Christ, is far worse than to maliciously slander your neighbor. To question or doubt miracles. is far worse than to deny known facts. Only the obedient, the credulous, the cringers, the kneelers, the meek, the unquestioning, the true believers, are regarded as moral, as virtuous. It is not enough to be honest, generous and useful; not enough to be governed by evidence, by facts. In addition to this, you must believe. These things are the foes of morality. They subvert all natural conceptions of virtue.

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Help to know mu? i don't need such help, i'm fine thank you.

You're welcome. Glad to have answered you to your satisfaction.

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You think otherwise, why? i think i've seen you defending the killing of babies in the womb

Since you believe that there are some good reasons for genocide, then according to you, genocide is sometimes fine.

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...that God did in the Old Testament? The fact remains that God is INCAPABLE of evil, meditate on that till it sinks. Some things are simply IMPOSSIBLE for God to do.

That still doesn't mean it is okay for him to command genocide. You say that someone who has commanded an evil act is incapable of evil? That is just denying what is just before your very eyes.

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i ...obra taste like milk, and made the dastardly acts of the religious crusades seem like a massage.

I don't know about you but I'm yet to kill people like Staling and others did. I don't see how following your God would have made things better since your God has been known to command genocide.

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i...and visions of imagination, it really sucks to be used of the devil.

Your answser is foolish. If you know what you would do, then say what you would do. If you don't know what you would do, then say you don't know what you would do. It really sucks to be so childish and ignorant.

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You are the one dodging the point and context of what is being discussed. The point and context is SUPERIORITY not being right or wrong. God is superior to every other God, take it or go and cry and gnash teeth or something.

How exactly are you trying to demonstrate your God's superiority?

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At your wit's end again ba? sorry.

And again, he runs from revealing the depravity he shares with his God.

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God did not command or commit genocide. You may need to write that down repeatedly on foolscap papers until you get it.
...
If you refuse to know Him, we know Him and we are not ashamed of Him.

The fact that you're not ashamed of a genocidal maniac is not a good thing. Unless you don't know the meaning of the word, then you have no defense.

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i have answered your question, whatever adjective you might use to qualify it. i would oblige you yet again. Watch the block letters. GOD DID NOT COMMAND BELIEVERS TO COMMIT GENOCIDE.

Then either you've not read your Bible, or you don't know what the word means.

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...again, reminiscent of satan the devil.

Hey I'm not the one championing genocide here. I didn't say I support what you've written either. In fact, your God supports those things and has done some of them himself and worse. What is the point of those questions? The fact that I'm morally better than your God to me is the most important point here.

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Good of you. Master the english language better for future and better communication. Now, referring to this passage and question:
...x. You may keep them for yourselves.

So now kill every boy and kill every woman who has had sexual intercourse, but keep alive for yourselves all the girls and all the women who are virgins.[/color]

If you need further explanation or any of the words are giving you challenges, do let me know.

Again you do the most ridiculous thing. I answered your question but you're unable to answer the same question in your own words? I've told you that those passages command murder and genocide but in your confusion and fear of your God being exposed, you try to decieve yourself. You've just quoted your God commanding all boys to be killed and girls to be kept alive for themselves. Yet you wonder why I say your God is depraved?

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Let's see it already.

Read my posts.

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You are clearly out of ideas.

Genocide is genocide and isn't good.

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You did not tell us what command God has already given, and to whom. i hope you have learnt the lessons this tin=me around, and will not repeat your mistakes again.
Is ignorance the only slavery? Ingersoll thinks it is, what do you think?

I thought you knew your Bible. Would slavery be right if it were commanded by God?

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You do need saving from godless ideologies and immorality. We cannot afford to have the likes of Stalin, Mao Zedong and Pol Pot ...

You declare I'm immoral, I'm telling you I'm not. I'm saying your God is immoral and if you fully obey him, you'll be immoral too.

Robert Ingersoll: Infinite punishment is infinite cruelty, endless injustice, immortal meanness. To worship an eternal gaoler hardens, debases, and pollutes even the vilest soul. While there is one sad and breaking heart in the universe, no good being can be perfectly happy.

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No, we are the two people discussing together and talking about the other individual's knowledge of God and the Bible.

And I've demonstrated your ignorance.

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What things could He have set up without the tree? It's easy to assume vaguely. What you are doing is akin to saying that your lecturer could have set up the exam without the question. Well, maybe, but how? What things could/should He have set up without the tree? It's easy to assume vaguely. Jesus was also man, remember? He was tested as man, lived as man, was tired and hungry as man, died as man, sacrificed His life as man. What is with you and selective/suspended thinking? Jesus was tempted by the devil BTW.
Luk 4:2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

That's just it. He doesn't need a test if he is really a God. Unlike a lecturer, God doesn't need to test you in order to find out what you know. He already knows it so doesn't need to test anyone. What is it with you and selective thinking? Why would a serious God who knows it all be testing himself? That makes no sense.

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i wasn't really presenting any role models but showing you other humans that did all that(or similar to) you need to do, even though they were born with the sin nature and negative deficit that we all are/have. Abraham, Paul, Job, Daniel, Peter all were born in sin and born of Adam. The real problem is not to be born of Adam. You can overcome that deficit like they did. That is the simple point passed across. You cannot be a christian and 'cut hearts'. Maybe a professing christian(we have millions of those), but not a genuine christian. It is an unchristian thing to do. Hatred, imprisonment, murder and crime are not products of being a christian but of the human nature.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

As far as I'm concerned, it is a deficit and the sign of a corrupt mind to be willing to kill your own son because someone just tells you to do that. Merely claiming that I have some deficit doesn't make it the case.

Ingersoll: How long, O how long will mankind worship a book? How long will they grovel in the dust before the ignorant legends of the barbaric past? How long, O how long will they pursue phantoms in a darkness deeper than death?

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God meets your definition of love and more. Yes, you should do what God wants in order not to go to hell. That is as common sense as saying to do what your prospective employer says in order to get the job. He wants a test, do the test, wants a medical, get the medicals, he wants a certificate, obtain the certificate. Terms and conditions do apply.

No your God does not meet my definition of love. It is not a sign that one loves a 6 month old baby by commanding that the baby should be killed. Well, the fear of hell is not a good reason for doing whatever your God wants.

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Stop the childish attempt to mimic me, you do it a lot when you are at your wits end. i have shown you why you should repent and told you that God loves YOU.

I was merely trying to express myself in ways that you would understand in order for you not to get confused. The fear of hell is not a good reason to do whatever injustice your God commands.

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Yes of course, genocide has a specific meaning and specific usage, there is no denial in that. It is impossible and senseless to say God committed genocide. Genocide is murder and it is also a crime. The relationship and similarity between you and goats is nearer and appropriate, compared to your relationship to God. By you/your, i mean Humanity in general. You are a created animal like other animals, albeit an higher animal. The whole world and everything inside is like dust and lighter than dust to God. And He owns and formed it all, that is the perspective.
Psa 62:9 Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity.
Isa 40:15 Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.

And what your God did meets the definition of genocide. There is no denying that fact either. It is impossible and senseless to say that your God did not command genocide. Based on your own words, your God is a murderer and a criminal.

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i know it is a silly and unproveable theory, unlike gravity and relativity. With all your mouth mouth intellectual progress, kindly demonstrate evolution for us all to see it as our origin.

Can you demonstrate relativity to me? The fact that you don't understand it doesn't mean it is silly or unprovable.

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You defined love as An intense feeling of affection and care towards another person. i showed and explained how God fitted that context, i said "this your definition of love proves that God is loving, not only loving. God is Love. God loves us so intensely that He became us to save us. God SO loved us that He gave His only Son. While we were yet enemies and sinners, He died for us. He made the first step even though we were the ones that offended Him. Adam went into hiding and blaming every other person, but God came looking for him and clothing him, and promising a solution, and sparing man from living forever in the fallen condition.
Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."
You brought in your red herring to attach genocide or torture. Deal with the facts presented on love, you cannot erase them. We are already talking about genocide on this same thread. Meanwhile, the paragraph is on love and its demonstration, focus. i showed you earlier how we could ignore your previous silliness and recklessness and childishness, and those of your nobel laureate heros and intelligently discuss their/your ideas of what good/morality is. When you present your humanist manifestos, we look at the manifesto and its content, not sidestepping issues and talking about how the authors behaved in secondary school or at age 3. When we are talking about love, focus and talk about it. It other paragraphs of the post, we will address your fantasies.

How does what you've written above mean that your God actually loved the 6 month old babies that he commanded to be killed? Or that he loved the young women he commanded those soldiers to abduct? This is why I say you're either being dishonest or deeply confused. Note that I'm also talking about the actual immoral commands your God has given and used it to reveal his deep evil.

Ingersoll: If you take the cruel passages, the verses that inculcate eternal hatred, verses that writhe and hiss like serpents, you can make a creed that would shock the heart of a hyena. It may be that no book contains better passages than the New Testament, but certainly no book contains worse. Below the blossom of love you find the thorn of hatred; on the lips that kiss, you find the poison of the cobra. The Bible is not a moral guide. Any man who follows faithfully all its teachings is an enemy of society and will probably end his days in a prison or an asylum.

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Stop mimicking me, it is childish. Have you run out of ideas again? Paul, Daniel, Moses, Joseph, David, Job and Luke are superior to Ingersoll. If you have any counter arguments, give appropriate reasons and contexts. Genocide is not a sign of love, stop presuming falsely.

Paul, Daniel, Moses, Joseph, David, Job and Luke are inferior to Ingersoll. You've not given any arguments or appropriate reasons and context. if genocide isn't a sign of love, why do you say it is love when your God does it?

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Talking about accepting, you should be the one accepting what you said. When i showed you what you said, you typed "No, I said your God once ordered that people should be killed for having different ideas."
Now, Who are the people that God once ordered to be killed for having different ideas, i'd like to discuss the context. Does God order that people be killed for having different ideas? You sidestepped my question once again.

I know what I said. I'll answer if I know that you'll change your mind based on information. All you have to do is to say whether or not you'll accept that your God made it a crime to think if I show you evidence for that statement.

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The Bible was WRITTEN by many writers, the Bible is the Word of God. Go and understand that. That God knows people doesn't mean that He is the source of your failures. Your father Adam is. Are you the source of everything you know? Who wrote that God is the source of all things? Is that person now God? Again, you failed to answer the question(s).

And Adam's father is God so he is the source of all failures. The Bible is a collection of stories by lots of people.

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When i say He is like something, i also say just that He is not. No point asking me what i said when you can simply go and re-read what i said.

This is just ridiculous. What is the point of saying he is like something he isn't like?

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Do you want me to follow your idea of morality?

I want you to reject the ideas of your God's morality. Whether or not you end up sharing similar views to me isn't as important to me as whether or not you've bothered to think.

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Mu, that is one of your responses when cornered and can't mimic me.

I didn't ask a question there, you did. And I gave the appropriate response. Simply looking up the meaning of that response would really help you.

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You asked for why He had those children killed. i think they are good reasons, if you think otherwise, why? i think i've seen you defending the killing of babies in the womb, those are even younger than 6months, whatever your reasons.

Then you think those are good reasons for supporting genocide. I'm sorry but that is just evil. I think those are poor reasons because genocide isn't defensible.

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Oh, but when the Bible merely states stuff about your perceived genocide, torture and co, it makes it so for you. You believe it and are absolutely convinced not to follow God ever. We have been addressing what God did in the Old Testament, only that you have being selective and suspended in thinking. Do you also know that in the Old Testament, God created man, created the earth, divided the red sea, used His prophets to raise the dead and perform many miracles? Are you afraid to consider all that God did in the Old Testament? The fact remains that God is INCAPABLE of evil, meditate on that till it sinks. Some things are simply IMPOSSIBLE for God to do.
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Still doesn't make genocide the right response. I refuse to follow a God who commands genocide.

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It meaningless to ask me to think about what i would do if i found myself in an IMPOSSIBLE situation. i can go to a deserted island tomorrow morning(even today), i CANNOT go to the Old Testament era. No amount of money or known technology can help achieve that. If you cannot see this difference, it is because the devil has being fooling around with your brain. Jesus can set you free. It is a foolish, baseless and childish question to ask what will never happen. i cannot be in the Old Testament era, so stop asking foolishly if i was there.

It is childish and an expression of gross ignorance of yourself to say that you don't know what you would do in a situation as clear as that. It also reveals your deep dishonesty. How about unknown technology? You see, your lack of imagination still doesn't save you from your evil thoughts.

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This is a needless red herring. You brought up Zeus when i talked about God being SUPERIOR. i have shown you just one aspect where God is SUPERIOR to Zeus. You either accept, bring up a better candidate, or show how God is not SUPERIOR to Zeus. We were not discussing who is more right, again, wash that face and focus.

I don't accept that having more people supporting your claims makes you right. Do you think that having more people supporting you makes you right? I see that you find this simple question difficult to answer so you keep trying to dodge.

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Stop the pathetic, childish mimicry. You are permitted to THINK out your own original responses.

Stop the pathetic and childish responses. You're permitted to think out of your comfort zone and reveal what you would do if commanded by God.

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Now, you are trying to confuse me, haven being apparently confused yourself. i did not try to defend genocide. 3 facts.
1. Genocide is not good.
2. Genocide is a crime.
3. God did not and cannot commit genocide, much like you cannot give birth to a lizard.

You tried to defend genocide when you gave "reasons" for why God commanding a genocide was a good thing to do. All you've done is to clearly reveal how evil your God is.

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i have answered you several times already. God did not order or command us to kill babies. Do i need to paint it, bold it, italicize it, quote it or what?

You only need to answer the actual question I asked which was whether or not your God gave the command to his believers to commit genocide. Do I need to paint it, bold it, italicize it? I've already quoted it but even that has you confused.

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Talk is cheap. Can you die for me? Can you heal me? Can you give me air to breathe in and out for free? Can you take me to heaven? Can you answer my prayers? Can you write a book? Of course, you know who does these things.

I'm still morally better than your God. I don't know if you know this, but people have done all those things for other people.

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It contained verbs, it gave instructions, you flopped on your tenses. These two questions below are different, work harder on your tenses. You are almost there.
1. Explain what these commands ask people to do?
2. Explain what these commands askED people to do?
i have answered question 1 which you asked. The answer is NOTHING. Because that is the truth, the verses do not ask us to do anything.

Okay. Now answer your question two since you're so hung up on tenses. Don't run from this one too.

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Good for you. You need some wisdom then, in order to put that presumed knowledge to good use.

I've already put it to very good use.

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i've you seen me drunk before, or you do not know the meaning of the word "AGAIN"? God never commanded genocide. He killed the Canaanites in judgement.

The manifestation of which was genocide.

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And your tenses let you down yet again. God has already given that command, what command? To who, you? Slavery in the context you refer to it, was well contained in God's commands. Some relationships and agreements today are worse than the so called slavery. The truth before us today though is that no one should be enslaved. Listen to these beautiful commands of love. You cannot beat it, not with a hundred revised manifestos.
1Pe 3:8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
1Pe 3:9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
1Pe 3:10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
1Pe 3:11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
1Pe 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

So was it right for people to have been enslaved in the past?

Ingersoll: Justice is the only worship.
Love is the only priest.
Ignorance is the only slavery.
Happiness is the only good.
The time to be happy is now,
The place to be happy is here,
The way to be happy is to make others so.

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ALL of one mind, having compassion, loving as brethren. Being pitiful, courteous, not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing. Hehehehe, you cannot do that one, i'm sure. You are filled with sin, hate, blasphemy, unforgiving spirit, bile, curses, abuses, immoral thoughts, indecency and such likes. There is no saving God, you cannot hold Him. What we need here is to save you, from the shameful grip of sin and satan, and from coming judgement.

I don't need saving. You're the one who needs saving from your evil God - Satan.

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You've been allowed to say what you want to say. We're talking about you and i, not other people.

Are we the only people that exist in the world or that use language?

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What things could He have set up without the tree? It's easy to assume vaguely, the reality on ground was that your father Adam was permitted to eat any of the millions of trees on planet earth except one. You should be holding him accountable for piss-poor performance despite not being deceived. God didn't need the test, duh, Adam did. Your lecturers don't need tests, you do. Adam could not be the best without passing the tests. Jesus passed His tests, remember.

He could have set up everything else without the tree. What did the tree do that couldn't have been done without the tree? According to your Bible, your Jesus was God remember? Do you expect God to fail his own test?

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Abraham and the others i mentioned overcame, what i mean by that is that they did not continue moaning and blaming in their default sin nature position. The took the challenge and rose above it, to please God and glorify God through their lives. These were some of the finest and virtuous men ever in their days. The Ingersoll quote is as usual living in denial and like the proverbial ostrich, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. You don't need to be a christian to cut out each other's hearts, or live in hatred, imprisonment, murder and crime. These are not products of being a christian but of the human nature. These are products that are observable in any society, even without being professing christians. Remember your brother, Stalin.

You're presenting as your role model, a man that was ready to kill his own son because someone told him to? Are you ready to kill your own son at the command of someone else? Sure you don't need to be a Christian to cut out hearts but the fact that you're a Christian and cutting out hearts shows that being a Christian doesn't help.

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The good is that God loves you, and that you do not need to perish in the afterlife.

Your God doesn't know what love is. So I should do what your God wants in order not to go to hell?

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God is good, not evil. You are evil by nature and by deed. You need to repent of your sins. Forgiveness is hinged on your repentance and faith, that is why you need to repent. Every person that has not repented will perish, that is why God gave us Jesus, so that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life. Right now, what you have is just your natural life and everlasting condemnation hanging around the corner. You are like an infected file, that is going to be deleted(as it were) if you do not submit to the cleansing of God's antivirus. It doesn't really matter your content, be it an important pdf or software. The fact is that you are infected/corrupted.
Psa 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Your God is evil by nature and in deed. He has done abominable works. You are like an infected file trying to spread his religious virus to anyone he reaches but you've reached someone with some immunity so your virus won't spread.

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We've talked about this before, it's not genocide. Why? Genocide is a crime, it's murder. Just like you don't talk of murdering your unreasonable goats, in a bigger way, you cannot talk about God committing murder.

Genocide has a specific meaning. The fact that you deny it means that you either don't know the meaning of the word or you're merely lying about your God. Are you a goat?

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Gravity and relativity are not silly theories, evolution is a silly theory. Demonstrate the theory please, its very convenient to live for about 30-60 years and make noise about millions of years. My refusal to take in evolution is not just religious but intellectual, it doesn't pass. Only desperate people and gullible people take it in.

Do you know what the theory is about? And what sort of demonstration are you looking for? Your refusal is religious and that religious refusal has lead to your intellectual stunting. Ignorant people deny it.

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It is loving to save us. God SO loved us that He gave His only Son. While we were yet enemies and sinners, He died for us. He made the first step even though we were the ones that offended Him. Adam went into hiding and blaming every other person, but God came looking for him and clothing him, and promising a solution, and sparing man from living forever in the fallen condition. Deal with these facts, you cannot erase them.

You never explained how it was loving to command genocide, have Job tortured or drown the world. Once again, you try to run from a clear question.

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One has to be insane or simply disillusioned to say that Ingersoll is superior(fare more) than Paul, Daniel, Moses, Joseph, David, Job and Luke. The devil has deceived you too much, you make it too easy for him.

One has to be insane to say that Paul, Daniel, Moses, Joseph, David, Job and Luke are superior to Ingersoll. The devil has deceived you into thinking that genocide is a sign of love.

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You said that God already made it a crime to think, stop lying. i'm not going to flog you or punish you. Who are the people that God once ordered to be killed for having different ideas, i'd like to discuss the context. Does God order that people be killed for having different ideas?

If I show you that your God ordered people to be killed for having different ideas, would you accept that your God made it a crime to think?

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i quoted James, not Paul. You again show your weak and presumed knowledge of the Bible. The Bible was WRITTEN by many writers, the Bible is the Word of God. Go and understand that. That God knows people doesn't mean that He is the source of your failures. Your father Adam is. Are you the source of everything you know?

Sorry that was my mistake. I James now God? According to your theology, God is the source of all things and thus the source of all failures.

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When i say He is like something, i also say just that He is not. You deliberately refuse to demonstrate your ability to read/hear well the first time.

Are you saying that he is like something and not like the thing you're saying he is like? Your poor command of the language is your own problem.

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Good. So, you are not saying mine is better or that yours is better. But you want me to follow yours.

I've not said that either.

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Are you learning a new language?

No, that is the answer to your question. You can look up the meaning of my response.

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Because He saw that they were not going to grow up to glorify Him, and their community's cup of judgement was full. It's killing four birds with one stone as it were. He got the kids in a better place, stopped them from growing to become miscreants, served judgement to their community, and avenged Himself.

And these are good reasons for killing 6 month old babies? Do you really not see what you're doing? You're defending the killing of 6 month old babies. This is why I say that with your God, no act is actually evil because if your God commands it, people like you will say it was good.

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You misstated me and as usual are trying to divert issues. Of course, we have being talking about God. If you try to misrepresent Him, you are not going to get anything much. We have been addressing what God did in the Old Testament, only that you have being selectived and suspended in thinking. Do you also know that in the Old Testament, God created man, created the earth, divided the red sea, used His prophets to raise the dead and perform many miracles? Are you afraid to consider all that God did in the Old Testament? The fact remains that God is INCAPABLE of evil, meditate on that till it sinks.

Merely saying that doesn't make it so. Anyone who commands the killing of 6 month old babies is evil as far as I'm concerned. To you, such a person may not be evil.

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Something is not foolish because one does not understand it. Do you need a dictionary? Something is foolish when it is silly, mindless, lacking good sense or judgement, ridiculous, unadvised, revealing stupidity, or misguided. It is a meaningless question asking me the frivolous and impossible. i am not in the past and cannot be. It is a foolish, baseless and childish question to ask what will never happen. i cannot be in the Old Testament era, so stop asking foolishly if i was there. If i asked you what you would do if you are in 1914, it is a waste of time and folly.

So it meaningless to ask you to think about what you would do if you found yourself in a certain situation? Seriously you must either be the most mentally deficient person I've encountered in a long while or you're just revealing your deep dishonesty. If I asked you what you would do if you were on a deserted island you would find it difficult to respond reasonably. This is the epitome of childishness. When you grow up, give me the response to my question.

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Duh, we are talking about being superior. Go and wash your face and focus.

Stop being childish for a moment and think. Does having many followers make you right?

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Asking the same foolish question more than once does not make it less foolish.

Giving a childish response doesn't make it less childish. What would you have done in their shoes?

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Genocide is not good.

But you've tried to defend it as being good already? Are you confused?

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You initially skewed it by saying that He ordered/commandS US. God did not order or command us to kill babies.

Just answer the question and stop acting childish.

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You do not measure up to your morals. See the way you have being fidgeting all through when asked questions AS WELL. God is not guity, neither can be.

Even if I don't measure up to it, I'm still better than your God. Your God is guilty as sin. Which he caused by the way.

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You flopped on your tenses. When you say to explain what these commands ask people to do, i must say NOTHING. Because that is the truth, the verses do not ask us to do anything.

Being disingenuous isn't a good sign. Didn't the verse contain verbs? Didn't it give instructions?

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Then you do not know much as i initially stated.

I clearly know more than you do.

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Genocide is NEVER okay with God. When Saul for instance committed genocide, the Israelites got punished later for it.
2Sa 21:1 Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites

Yet he commanded the genocide of those Canaanites that you were defending earlier? Or are you drunk again?

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You exposed nothing except your deliberately poor grasp of english tenses. The fact stands that God is not commanding that witches be killed.
change is constant as it were and good, but change at the whims and caprices of perverted society and ridiculous nobel laureates is not good enough. God created man and knows all about man to effect the desired changes, like a skilled doctor knows his patients and bio stats to change prescriptions as and when due. Genocide is never okay, neither is slavery. Slavery was however well contained in the Old Testament, and is non existent in the new testament in the context that you understand it. The Israelites were not permitted to have fellow Israelites as slaves. In this dispensation, everyone is equal as it were and you therefore cannot have slaves of others. There is no higher law or better standard of love than already proclaimed in the Bible long time ago.
2Jo 1:5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.

Your God has already given that command according to your Bible. You're the one deliberately confusing yourself by talking about tenses in order to try to evade the fact that your God is evil. You say genocide is never okay yet you tried to defend it earlier. You're saying Israelites weren't permitted to enslave fellow Israelites. Was it okay to enslave non-Israelites? Once again, talking about the New Testament does nothing to cover your evil God of the Old Testament. The standard of love in the Bible proclaimed long ago we would consider as being hateful because your God commanded genocide. No amount of lies or self delusion will save him.

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You can say what you want to say, the truth stands that you have shown gross ignorance of theology. Learn to take note that when a christian refers to God, he is talking about God(what you naively call the christian God).

The truth is that you're the one who is showing his gross ignorance of "theology". Realize the fact that the Christian God isn't the only God that people talk about when talking about "theology".

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God made man, God did not make sin. It is like an unserious student blaming the lecturer for his failure even though he was well taught. You don't blame the test or the lecturer, a serious person would look at what he did wrong, where he missed it and how he can improve on it, instead of blaming every other thing but himself, just like Adam. The tree was a test, why do you set up tests? Is it for people to fail? Why do companies and schools set up tests before appointment, promotion, admission and selection? Someone failed the test and is asking why the test, why not just give me G.M. or B.Sc. That is ridiculous. When precious metals and mineral resources are made to pass through intense conditions, it is that we may get the best and the most refined from them, not to torture them. When those lovely cars and machines are simulated in different conditions, heat test, speed test and whatever other tests, it is not to destroy them but to bring out the best and newest and latest and most efficient models. Why is sin transmissible, i don't think i can discuss that at the moment or even seek to convince anyone. But what i know i will say. Sin by default in every man(what you call transmissible) is the least of the worries. The sins by deeds(commission and omission) are worse, that i know. Another thing that i know is that man can have victory over sin despite all. Man can please God still and yet. Abel, Job, Abraham, Moses, Enoch, David, Paul, Peter, John, Daniel, Joseph and many believers all over the world all started with this same default 'transmitted' condition. They overcame and are overcoming. You too can overcome, you have no excuse.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

According to your theology, God made man and he knew what man would do when he set up the tree. He could have set things up without the tree. Humans carry out tests because we don't know everything but your God doesn't need tests in order to know what would happen. What did Abraham overcome? The man who wanted to kill his own son? And David? The man who killed another man to take over his wife? You better think these things through.

Ingersoll: According to the theologians, God, the Father of us all, wrote a letter to his children. The children have always differed somewhat as to the meaning of this letter. In consequence of these honest differences, these brothers began to cut out each other's hearts. In every land, where this letter from God has been read, the children to whom and for whom it was written have been filled with hatred and malice. They have imprisoned and murdered each other, and the wives and children of each other. In the name of God every possible crime has been committed, every conceivable outrage has been perpetrated. Brave men, tender and loving women, beautiful girls, and prattling babes have been exterminated in the name of Jesus Christ.

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Here is the fact, God loves you. But God does not need you in the sense that you need Him. Every human needs God, we are all eternal beings, and it will be for each individual's good to have eternal life than eternal condemnation. It's your survival we are talking about here as it were. That is why He COMMANDS you to repent.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

One thing i noticed about God is that God is not desperate about a lot of people making it, whatever the it. He makes countless stars and the Sun is the main one we need, He made a whole galaxy and universe and to our knowledge so far, they are not inhabited but he took one small planet earth somewhere and put people in His image there. He makes millions of cells waste and only one gets to connect with the egg to form the human at conception. He took just one Noah's family and destroyed the rest of the world, He took just one Lot's family out of two cities, even the family barely made it. He's going to do similar when our judgement comes. The multitude are on the broad way of destruction. Humans are not in a position to negotiate as it were, it is a survival of the fittest. Do you care to survive or you don't believe you need to. i believe and i'm going to survive for my good. You can.

So rather than telling me these stories, what is the good? All you've done is to say that things are how they are and for no sensible reason claimed that God did everything. All I want to know is what the good is.

Ingersoll: The more false we destroy the more room there will be for the true.

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Because you don't have to. You have in you all that it takes to repent.

Why should I "repent" and do what your God wants? After all, your God is evil and I don't want to be evil.

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You do not see because you deliberately fail to. When i handcuff you or imprison you because you offended me, that is wrong and illegal. When the law officer handcuffs you or imprison you(according to law) because you offended me, that is legal. Same action, different actors. God can do absolutely anything including judgement. What is better than judgement? What i notice is that humans would complain and murmur if God judges and if He does not. God is wiser than all men and so your little perspective and my little perspective may not suffice, He sees it all.

So what have you seen that makes it okay to command genocide? What I see is that the commander of such an act is evil. You're welcome to give me the perspective that would make it okay to command genocide when you have the power to do everything.

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Gravity and relativity are not silly theories. They are also demonstrable to almost anybody. Evolution is baseless and without any shred of proof, when i mean evolution, i am majoring on the inanity that man evolved from apes as against being created by God. It is not a better plow. Find another.

All you're doing is demonstrating the point. The theory of evolution has been demonstrated. The fact that you refuse to accept it due to your religious views doesn't make it wrong or without proof. It is a far better plow than the mythical stories in your Bible.

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Again, this your definition of love proves that God is loving, not only loving. God is Love. God loves us so intensely that He became us to save us. God SO loved us that He gave His only Son. While we were yet enemies and sinners, He died for us. He made the first step even though we were the ones that offended Him. Adam went into hiding and blaming every other person, but God came looking for him and clothing him, and promising a solution, and sparing man from living forever in the fallen condition.
Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

How is it loving to command genocide? How is it loving to have Job tortured by the devil? How is it loving to drown the world? Would you command soldiers to kill people you love? Maybe you don't know what love is or your idea of love has been corrupted because of your Bible.

Ingersoll: And why does this same God tell me how to raise my children when he had to drown his?

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Ingersoll is in every way inferior to those people that i mentioned. He is an achiever only in your mind.

No, he is far more superior than all those people you mentioned. They are only achievers in your mind.

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God hasn't made it a crime to think or stopped anyone from thinking. i think and so do several other christians. You said God made thinking a crime, now you are shifting base again. It's also good to see you working on your tenses, work harder.

No, I said your God once ordered that people should be killed for having different ideas. Having people killed for having different ideas is trying to stop them from thinking. What do you think I meant?

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Ask for the context in which that is said.
Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jam 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

Is Paul now God? According to your Bible, your God knows people even before they were born so I don't see how Paul saying one thing changes anything.

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God is like, just that He is not. You don't seem to read/hear well the first time.

When you say he is "like" something, you're comparing him to that thing in certain qualities. You don't seem to understand language.

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What makes my position/opinion on corruption, adultery to be better than yours?

I never said it was better.

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You are the father of misstate. Are goats unreasonable or not? Yes or No.

Mu.

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One reason is because His reason for creating us is to glorify Him on earth. You grow up to do that mainly.

So why did he have those children killed?

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There goes the misstate lord. i didn't say anything close to what you are writing. We know what God will do in this new testament period, so no need for tactless ponderings.God will not command anybody to kill babies. You would support killing of babies though, through abortion. i know it. You have your reasons which you argue as fair.

I didn't misrepresent you. You're simply not addressing what I've said. We also know of what God did in the Old Testament. Why don't we address that? Or are you afraid of the fact that it will show the evil that is your God?

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i like this improvement on your tenses, very good of you i must commend. Nonetheless, i don't answer foolish questions, i'm commanded not to.
2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do engender strifes.
Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

How is it a foolish question? Is there a word or phrase in that question that you didn't understand? Or are you showing dishonesty in your poor attempts at dodging a direct question?
What you've quoted is one way you Christians use to avoid thinking about anything. A question is foolish because it reveals the evil nature of your God.

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He has more followers, showing He is superior in that aspect. Need more? how many followers of Zeus have you met? i have met none. i laugh almost to tears to ask how many professing christians you have met.

Does having many followers mean you're right?

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You said that God has given US the order and advice to kill babies and molest people, that had to be straightened out. Now, you have asked the right question perhaps. My God commanded people to kill in the Old Testament. To be specific, God ordered the children of Israel to kill all the male Midianites and some of the females. This judgement was because the people of Midian had made Israel to sin against God and caused a plague that killed thousands of Israelites. He is God. Israel cannot and must not do that on their own, or for personal revenge. What is your next question? If you have valid, straight-forward and true questions, i will try the best to answer them.

If you were one of the soldiers that was given this command by God, would you have joined them in the killing?

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Don't let the devil deceive you on this one also.

You're already deceived. You're calling genocide good.

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i've answered this, you initially skewd it by saying that He ordered/commandS US. God did not order or command us to kill babies, there is something called scope and context.

He ordered believers didn't he? You must really stop being disingenuous. It is a mark of dishonesty.

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You are wrong. i'm putting you on the stand as well and it glaringly shows you are guilty as charged. You don't measure up to your morals. Learn to multitask.

Okay. Your God is guilty of being evil. What am I guilty of? Not following his evil?

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Your tenses thehomer, tenses arew very important and do change context. The verb "ask" is a different tense from the verb "asked". In this post, you are using "asked" which is past tense. When you say to explain what these commands ask people to do, i must say NOTHING. Because that is the truth, the verses do not ask us to do anything.

Of course. Your dishonesty knows no bounds. Now you find English language difficult. Well that is your own problem to deal with. You can always go back to school for lessons. I'm sure there are adult education classes.

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Your tenses were amusingly horrible. i can see you are putting some work into them. There is no deep evil that God has done. You are evil by nature, remember.

All I know is that I'm better than your God. Your God is far more evil than any human can possibly be.

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It doesn't depend, you act unaware of the distinction between the Old Testament and the New testament. God did not revise His previous thoughts about something being bad. He simply changed from gear 1 to gear 2, as it were, in the same gearbox and car. If you have a child, your rules and behaviour to the child changes with time, without you necessarily changing or revising previous thoughts. Humanity is in a different stage and phase, come on the bus already.

So genocide used to be okay with your God? What is wrong with you? Based on your analogy of gears, it means that your God may decide to one day go back to gear one and command people to command genocide.

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And your tenses fail you yet again. God is not commanding that witches be killed. Have you found an alternative to abortion? ethical values cannot be derived from human needs alone. Some humans need to sleep with another's wife or with young children, some need to eat other humans, and take other's possessions. Ethical values shouldn't be on those, even culturally and in time, those needs and interest differ and change. The Bible gives the best advices and commands on how to treat one another, including subordinates. Update your theology, there are no 'slaves' in the context you refer in this era.

There is nothing wrong with my tenses. You're just complaining about how well I exposed the evil nature of your God.
If ethical values shouldn't change with culture or time, then what is the point of talking about the Old Testament? Why are you talking about "gear 2"? Was there a time when genocide and slavery was okay? Abandon your theology.

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You should know the brand of theology i referred to when i said that you are ignorant about God. i would not make special references to the christian God, He is simply God. Take good note.

And I say you're also ignorant about God. Merely complaining that your God is the only God isn't good enough.

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God made man, not sin. The buck lies at man's door. Why did man sin. If he didn't sin, we would not be talking about transmission. Man was tested and he failed. Why do you conduct tests? Everything we make we test and then certify as approved or not. Man was made/built capable to pass the test, he decided to flunk it instead, in disbelief that he could fail. So blame your father, not God.

God made man sin. The buck lies at his door. Why did he decide that sin must be transmissible? Why did he set up the tree? I don't set up tests in order to torture people in hell.

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You would obey His command for your own good, like you would probably obey a doctor or a law enforcement agent.

You claim it is for my own good but what is this good? I don't obey anyone blindly so simply let me know what this good is?

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Unfortunately for you, you have a pedigree, so you are influenced by the past, the present and the future actions of OTHERS. Deal with the facts, instead of fighting them. Freewill is complex and i'd rather we don't delve into that. There is already a lot on the table as it were. Shortly, freewill is the ability to will freely. Makes us different from every other creation which are either programmed or led only by instinct. e.g the planets, the trees, the animals. The river, the sun have their course, they have no will of their own. The Sun will rise tomorrow, it has no choice as it were. Chicken will eat corn except there is a problem.

Since I'm influenced by the past and rather God making me start out good, he made me start out the way he did, why don't I continue the way I started out?

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Okay.



Psa 49:13 This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah.

i'm not exactly asking you to believe, but to see the full perspective. You are looking at the action and failing to consider the actor as it were. i showed you earlier that an action might be right by one and wrong by another. i talked about soccer players and their umpire/referee. i mentioned justice as rendered by an individual in society and by those with legal backing. When you criticize, remember the perspective that the Actor is the Owner and Judge, don't remember only the action. That's suspended.

I don't see how a certain actor makes ordering genocide the best action. Especially if this actor could do absolutely anything. Humans who can't do everything are considered as cruel if they command genocide or commit it. Why should a God who knew better and could have done better not be considered as even more cruel than any human?

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Don't argue needlessly next time then. What is love?

Wiktionary: An intense feeling of affection and care towards another person.

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Evolution is a THEORY, a silly one at that. It's not in any way a better plow but a desperate attempt by some to deceive themselves and the gullible.

It is a scientific theory just like gravity and relativity are scientific theories. Your denial merely demonstrates Ingersoll's point.

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Yeah yeah, for your mind. i'm talking about reality.

No you're not talking about reality.

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God hasn't made it a crime to think or stopped anyone from thinking. i think and so do several other christians.

Your God once ordered that people should be killed for having different ideas.

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Get the root cause. Your father Adam is the source of your failures, not God.

Well according to you Christians, everything leads back to your God.

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Yes, God is like, just that He is not. The Bible uses inanimate objects to describe Him so that you can understand Him better. He is a Rock, Fortress, Sun and Fire.

So your God is incapable of moral reasoning. Why then do you think appealing to him is a good idea?

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What makes your position/opinion on corruption, adultery to be better than another's.

What is your position on corruption and adultery?

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i know what you said.

Then you shouldn't have misstated it.

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The context that He made them and owns them, and will take them to a better place rather than having them grow up corrupt and fit for destruction.

In that case, it would be better to kill all 6 month old babies yet he has let them live. Why has he let other babies live?

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Sure, if God does it. i have consistently told you that NO MAN has a right to take another's life. To preempt you, if you killed all babies, they would all go to a better place. Nonetheless, you would have sinned and probably altered God's plan for some of the babies. Imagine if you killed me as a baby, we would not be having this discussion. God's current ultimate plan is not to have many babies in heaven but to get a few good men. Notice that right from conception, the millions of other spermatozoa not needed.

And this is why I say that with God, there is no morality. You're saying that if God commands you to kill babies, you would do it.

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God would not ask me so to do, i am 100% sure.

According to your Bible, God asked Israelites to kill 6 month old babies. If you were in that army, would you have killed them?

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You said He wasn't superior, i showed you He is.

You didn't show it, you merely said he has many followers. Or do you think that if someone has many followers, that means they are right?

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The lie again is that you are saying that God has ordered me and us(any christian) to kill babies and molest. i didn't get the memo, you are lying.
We are in the New Testament, you would need to come to terms with that.

Did your God command people to kill babies in the Old Testament? This is why I say you're very dishonest. I specifically quoted a passage from Numbers but you ignored it for some reason.

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Get that Brighter Grammar i adviced.

Apparently you're the one who needs it.

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If God is not talking to you about mew, why do you say that He ordered/commandS US?

Because the Bible spoke about your God commanding the killing of babies. It is in Numbers 31. I've already quoted it in my previous posts.

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Well, you are wrong. i'm putting you on the stand as well and it glaringly shows you are guilty as charged. You don't measure up to your morals.

In other words, you're running from the fact that I've demonstrated how evil your God is.

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Nothing.

Nothing? Are you serious or do you find reading difficult? So those two verse asked people to do nothing? And with this, you reveal your deep dishonesty.

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Work on your tenses.

And this is how you try to run when you're confronted with the deep evil of your God.

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You have a problem with God doing same.

Well, that depends. Are you agreeing that your God has learned and revised his previous thoughts about something being bad?

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These are not greater alternatives or substitute for the Word of God.

I think they are unless of course you think that there's nothing wrong with commanding that witches be killed or that it is sometimes okay to kill 6 month old babies.

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For your level of dishonesty and insincerity, we shouldn't even be talking about any other's morality but yours. Of course, there are other religion's theology, our context of discussion was obviously the christian perspective. Everytime i mention(ed) God, i refer to the christian God {who is the only God} and you know that. The study of that God is what i refer to as theology which you are ignorant about. i have no business/concerns what you know about other gods. i boldly say you are ignorant about God(the christian God). Register it in your brain that i refer to the christian God as God. Theology is principally the study of God. You are IGNORANT on the study of God.
Now, you do understand english more than you pretend, stop stalling your comprehension needlessly. "making it up" means that one is improvising or inventing. There is nothing i have said(to you on this thread) that is new or that i did not know ever before i ever knew you on this forum. It is all in the Bible as it were. Man became a sinner after Adam sinned, man was created good. This is in the Bible and i showed you, i'm not making it up. i wouldn't exactly say sin is genetic, because sin is more than the physical, it is spiritual. i only gave the genetic/hereditary ANALOGY to describe and explain things. i also gave analogy about forefathers decisions having an effect on the descendants, so lets not tie wishful strings to ONLY genetics. God is not wondering why people don't want Him, where do you get that? People want God, billions of them are forever searching as it were, albeit wrongly. It is like asking why did God make HIV or some new blood disease transmissible. God did not intend/purpose for man to sin. The question should be on the man, why was man so careless as to sin or contract the HIV? Why did the man have the accident, not why did God allow accidents, man should be held accountable and responsible for what he did. Power comes with responsibility. Should we hold world leaders accountable for their acts and crimes or whine about why God allowed them to be there since they are put there by God in a sense, according to the Bible?

What you refer to as "theology" isn't theology but "Christian theology". Don't mix them up. Then there are subsets of Christian theology like Catholic theology, Baptist theology, Anglican theology etc. Sure you can say I'm ignorant about the Christian God but so are you. But I'm not ignorant on what people have said about God and that is what theology generally amounts to.

Again, why did God make sin transmissible when he could easily have made it non-transmissible? If God didn't intend for Adam to sin, why did he place the tree in the garden at all. Why did he even make the tree in the first place? Or didn't he know what Adam would do before he was formed? You can keep making excuses for your God but they simply won't fly.

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Why are you asking IF? Why did you initially go ahead to make a baseless and ignorant statement that He is surprised or wonders? God expects and commands you to repent.

And why should I obey his command? God has wondered about things before so I don't know why you're complaining here. After all, he wondered whether or not Abraham would be willing to sacrifice his son. He wondered whether or not Job would always obey him.

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Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Freewill is what separates you from other creatures, and makes you in the image of God. Freewill makes you capable of holiness or sin in a sense, despite your nature unlike other creatures. i had a sinful nature(default state) too, all men[humans] have. But i repented, and so can you. A sinful nature means that you start on a bad or negative or deficit slate, instead of a clean one or even good one. It takes a CONVERSION or a re-born(being born again) to come out of that. This is all in the Bible.

Robert Ingersoll: Some Mistakes of Moses
And why does this same God tell me how to raise my children when he had to drown his?

What exactly do you mean by freewill? Sure it is in the Bible. Doesn't make it true or a good idea. A better idea would have been for every single person to start out good.

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This is the question i should be asking you. i made a statement and if you didn't have problems with it, you should not have made much ado about it.

I'm not making much about it. I'm happy with it.

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That is such a relief.


That is as SUSPENDED as your thinking gets. On the basis of what the Bible writes, you conclude what God did and commanded(which in your opinion are cruel), On the same basis of what the Bible writes, you do not believe that God created the world and owns you.
Psa 24:1 The earth is the LORD's, and the fullness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
Num 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

How long are you going to suspend your thinking, hence thinking less according to you?

For some reason, you find it difficult to understand that someone can criticize an idea without believing it. Yes based on what your God did in the Bible, he is cruel. But guess what? I don't believe in your God as a serious entity.

The more false we destroy the more room there will be for the true.
Robert Ingersoll

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So why were you initially arguing needlessly like a hen running away from a male chicken? You denied ever saying that "believers weren't expressing their real opinions." Your role model said "if the world ever advances beyond what it is to-day, it must be led by men who express their real opinions." Believers aren't willing to admit Ingersoll's naive opinion of the God they claim to believe in. Please show the several times that i have been ignorant of God?

Well, I didn't say it, Ingersoll did.
You demonstrate your ignorance when you claim that your God is loving.

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What is the BETTER plow? BETTER is in capital letters, how do/did you pass exams.

I was about to ask you the same question with regards to exams. Demonstrating your inability to deal with literary works is your own failing. One of the "better plows" would be something like the theory of evolution rather than the Bible being the better explanation on how humans came to exist.

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That is not a MODEST claim, that is preposterous and silly. Ingersoll has nothing on many of the great theologians before him. Not to bore you with the not well known ones, he would die instantly and naturally near dead theologians like Paul, Daniel, Moses, Joseph, David, Job and Luke. He would die of inferiority complex.

And I disagree that he would die of inferiority complex.

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Loving God doesn't preclude thinking, Who made it a crime to think or stopped your right from thinking?

Your God has already made it a crime.

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There we have it, you are the one wondering not God. So stop making ridiculous suppositions. God did not cause you to be the way you are, your father did, and you do. Adamite.

Yes I'm the one wondering. Wondering why your God keeps complainig. Nope God caused it. He could have made sin non-transferrable but he chose not to.

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None, He is incapable of cruelty, they are not on the same wavelength. Compare it to the Sun for instance as you may understand it that way, the sun cannot be said to be cruel whatever its acts. Neither can fire or water. Our God is greater. Man like you and i, i know what you can do and i can do and we will both agree as cruel.

Good. Good. Steps in the right direction. So God is like inanimate objects like the sun, fire and water. What you're saying is that your God is a being that is incapable of moral reasoning. Or that even if your God were to command genocide, then genocide may be good.

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Hahahaha, if i used this 'degree' analogy to weigh man's morality with God's, you would immediately frown like you were forced to swallow a bitter pill. What makes your position/opinion on corruption, adultery to be better than another's. Are you suggesting that there may be superior morality to yours? Of course not, you are dodging like the devil.

Maybe some people have better moral reasoning than I do. The thing is that I'm willing to consider what they say. You can use the "degree analogy" if you want. Just let me know what your position is or what your God's position is.

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Okay, i know that but i'll remember that YOU also said so. Goats are unreasonable.

What I said is that goats are incapable of reason.

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Definitely, you are saying saying yes sometimes and no sometimes. Very good. You are not basing a man's cruelty only on one action but on different situations. Remember that when you attempt to judge God(a quite ludicrous act/attempt if i may say). Don't judge Him(again that sounds crazy because it is) based ONLY on His actions but also on His personality, Word, Agreement, context etc.
Imagine somebody is arguing with me on WHY i am killing my chickens, telling me i could be cruel to kill my chickens, i'm supposing that is amoral? Watch it, thehomer has respect for chicken lives.

You've still demonstrated nothing surprising. You can always tell me the context that would make killing 6 month old babies the best thing to do by an all powerful entity.

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The destination has something to do with EVERYTHING. The Bible teaches that humans live forever, eternally. It teaches that it is BETTER not to be born at all than to be born and live eternally in hell. Your six month old new found victims are not going to hell forever, a 99.9% likelihood if they lived to adulthood and wrecked many lives and destinies viewing/projecting their life's graph as it were. You complain if God allows people to live, you still complain if God does not, you seem a frustrated man.

You do realize that you're giving a justification for killing all 6 month old babies. Based on your reasoning, someone who really loves children would kill them all to ensure that they all get into heaven. Is that a position you're willing to defend?

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You now see that you were wondering whether or not it is right or wrong to order the killing of 6 month old children. i was never confused on that. That is your question and i have already answered it. IT IS NOT RIGHT FOR ANY HUMAN TO ORDER THE KILLING OF ANOTHER. Are your reading glasses expired?

I wasn't confused about that but if you really believe in your God, then you'll be confused about it. Here's another question. Would you kill a 6 month old baby if you were ordered to do so by God?

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Zeus? God has superior coverage, followership and book already. They say if someone has not being to another person's farm, he would always assert that his father's farm is the biggest.

Numbers don't make your God right. Otherwise, hell would be the better destination since more people would be there.

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Me: Does God order us to kill babies or advice us To Molest female victims?
You: According to your Bible, he has already given the order and the advice.

You my friend are a barefaced and shameless LIAR. God has not ordered US to kill babies or adviced us to molest female victims. Again, i said "Mention the better suggestions many people have made that are better than what we already have in the Bible." What you mentioned is already in the Bible and has being christian practice for centuries. Paul didn't kill witches, he delivered them. He called Onesimus his master's brother and it so to his master philemon.

Please where is the lie? Hasn't God ever oredered someone to kill babies or advised someone to rape female victims? Saying that God hasn't told you to do this personally doesn't mean that he hasn't told someone else to do it.

Paul delivered witches. God said kill witches. What is your point? Are you saying that just because something was mentioned in the Bible, it was a good idea? God never said "free all your slaves" he gave laws on who to enslave and what to do with them.

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You said God WANTS to kill babies. Except that you do not know your tenses, that means that God desires/wants that act in the present continuous. ALREADY ORDERED is past tense. Your tenses failed you, look for "brighter grammar" my friend.

I see your dishonesty really struggling. Playing with grammar still won't save your God. You've already pointed out that I said your God has ordered the killing of babies so please can you quote what I said that you're interpreting in this strange way?

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What sort of grammar is this one again? YOU are EVADING my question because you think it is irrelevant, that is the correct sentence you should write. Now, the question is not irrelevant, it answers your question. Does God command me to kill my child and offer her as burnt offering? You asked your question in a PRESENT continuous tense "What do you think about a person who command[b]s[/b]". It is pertinent to ask if God indeed commandS.

It actually is irrelevant because I'm the one who asked you a certain question. Asking me some other question doesn't answer my original question. Asking me if God is telling you something today makes no sense to me because your God isn't talking to me about you. All I have to go on is the Christian Bible and I'm merely asking you what your opinion is about someone who gives a certain command.

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Don't go delusional, you are being questioned and i am the one questioning you. You need to learn to multi-task, i am answering your questions and questioning you. The reality on ground is that you took my question as a response(an appropriate and honest response) in this instance. Be consistent and stop complaining about my other responses that are in question format. i didn't make it accidentally, i THOUGHT it through, deeper than your 'little thinkings'. i simply debunked your insinuation that doing a bad thing compulsorily rules out your good thing. You are ignorantly posing that God did some bad/cruel things so He is not to be taken serious on any good thing. On that same basis/criteria, you should not be taken serious, because you(and every human) have done silly things and rubbish in the past.

You're not answering my questions, you're asking your own question as a sort of comparison to mine about your opinions which may or may not reveal somethings about you and your God.
And once again, you reveal that you're comparing me to your God. What you suggested isn't my insinuation. I'm saying that given the sorts of evil actions your God has commanded in the past, he is an evil entity rather than a good one that should be worshipped.

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IF you kill 6 month old babies, you would go to hell. If i kill 6 month old babies, i will go to hell. GOD DOES NOT SUPPORT IT, write that down in an exercise book several times until it sinks. Your tenses are horrible or there is something worse wrong with you.

There is nothing wrong with my tenses. If you find my plain words confusing, please can you explain what these commands ask people to do?

From Numbers
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

You're shouting that God doesn't support killing 6 month old babies. Please did God ever support the commands given above?

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From your link, the so called human manifesto is about three already and still subject to change The page even says that "the three differ considerably in their tone, form, and ambition." Your touted book has differences in its editions already as small as it is, and you were moaning about theological difference. Manifesto 11 says some mumbo-jumbo about being resplendent with the promise of a world in which the never-realized Christian ideal of 'love thy neighbor' will finally be achieved. So in essense, you want to achieve the Bible's aims, nothing good that is new or a greater alternative than the Word of God below(1John4v7-9; 3v15-19).

You speak as though people learning and revising their previous thoughts is something bad. Having modern editions isn't something terrible. In fact the absence of modern editions is why your Bible is such a good source of things not to do.

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The more recent Manifesto 111 gives seven things as summary;


These are not greater alternatives or substitute for the Word of God. Numbers 1, 4, 5, 6 and 7 are found in the Bible already. Except that God supersedes everything else. He is 1st. 2 and 3 is rubbish, evolution is not a greater alternative, ethical values should not be derived from human need. Some humans need to sllep with another's wife or with young children, some need to eat other humans, and take other's possessions. Ethical values shouldn't be on those, even cultural and in time, those needs and interest differ and change. Who knows whether Manifesto 4 will ask for all the poor people to be wiped out, signed by 70 Nobel Laureate, nonsense.

Really some people "need" to sleep with another's wife or young chldren? Some "need" to eat other humans? What sort of needs do you have? I hope you're not one of the people with those "needs".
I'd say that any book that doesn't recommend killing witches, suggest that it is sometimes good to kill 6 month old babies or give advice on how to keep slaves is already a huge improvement over the Bible.

tevinsolt:
I did answer your question, you only find answers in what you agree with.
Like I said, up until my early adult years, my parents served as a source of guidance. Now I'm old enough to make my own decisions. God, we can never match in essence and wisdom.

Are you saying that we are bound bound by God because we cannot match him in essence and wisdom?

tevinsolt:
1) Exercising ability to think is being open to find out how we all got here, I'm pretty sure you've got your mind, it is your life live the way you see fit. Seriously dude ants?

Yes ants. We're bigger than ants. You're the one who brought up something about sizes.

tevinsolt:
2) Doing what God wants out of love is for ones good. It's all about the restoration of paradise to what it was before the first humans lost it due to sin. Only those who have gone through the renewal of their minds will be let in. Sin, death, rot, Satan will all be cast into the bottomless pit.

Oh? Well I don't think it would be to my advantage to be doing what your God wants because I've seen the sorts of things that he wants and I don't like it. Secondly, are you saying that we should do what God wants because we would benefit?

tevinsolt:
3) According to you, the universe doesn't have a creator, therefore we came by as a result of random chance and time, thus you and a rock on the ground, or a chicken are equal. Every day you eat that meat or fish, no that you're commiting murder, have at the back of your mind that those animals aren't getting justice.

How does the fact of evolution make you equal to a rock or chicken? I really don't understand this leap please could you clarify?
Eating meat or fish isn't murder. Murder has an actual definition so if you want to redefine murder first state that it is what you want to do before you start.

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Actually, you are the one getting more confused as you obviously didn't expect this. It proves your ignorance on theology. Theology basically being the study of the christian religion/faith and God's relation to the world. i'm not making things up as we go along, all i have said are in the Bible and have been there before you and Ingersoll were born. You didn't EXIST before you were born, asking me how lamely supposes that i said you existed. You do have a pedigree and geneology. That determines some things about you, like your genotype, nationality etc. It also determined your sinful nature. You were BORN that way, because your father(everyone's father-Adam) became that way. Like i mentioned the blood disease analogy or some other hereditary trait. NOTE AGAIN that Adam wasn't CREATED that way, neither was anyone. It's pitiful that you are ignorant of these plain facts/explanations written in the Bible. Adam the first man was created good, he went rogue/bad, jeopardizing his entire lineage/descendants in the process. Just like some of your forefathers decisions have some effect on you today e.g the wars they fought and didn't, and the political and economic struggles.

You're the one who has successfully demonstrated his ignorance here. All religions with an idea of a God have a theology so there is Islamic theology, Hindu theology etc. You're making it up as you go along otherwise there won't be such a huge disparity within Christian theology itself. After all, the various Christian factions occur due to theological differences. So sin is genetic? Why did God make sin genetic and then wonder why people don't want him? Why did he make it something transmissible? After all, he hasn't made stealing genetic. Neither has he made murder genetic.

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God is not surprised at you or anyone. You're possibly losing focus on this and going another lane entirely. You should ask nicely and make efforts to understand instead of asking slyly. Anyway, you have a freewill, unlike planet Earth or Saturn that God expects and is certain of their position in the next 4 million years. Heck, some scientists may even be able to project that. Why, they don't have a will of their own. They are obedient to what they are "programmed" to do. You have a will and can actually make decisions, like repenting.

If he isn't surprised, then he expected me to have nothing to do with him. What does freewill (if that is true) have to do with anything? If I already have a sinful nature, then it is natural for me not to repent. Therefore I'm only following the nature that your God caused me to have since he could have made Adam's sin non-genetic.

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And i said you couldn't.

Is that a problem?

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You were the one that said only idiots have no doubts.

I know what I said.

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On the same basis, did God create the world and own you? Suspended thinking is thinking less, you said so.

No God did not create the world and does not own me.

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You are one funny fellow. You should have made your post this clear the first time. i didn't know the exact bold you referred as that was a post/statement made days earlier. Other posts had come in between and you have to be specific like you just did. You denied ever saying that "believers weren't expressing their real opinions." Your role model said "if the world ever advances beyond what it is to-day, it must be led by men who express their real opinions.". He said that in the same breathe/paragraph as the inglorious assertion that "only idiots are absolutely sure of salvation. It is incredible that the more brain you have the less your chance is." You probably cannot see what is wrong in these two because your morals hang on nothing. Ingwersoll naively supposes that antitheists are the ones expressing their real opinions and that they are the ones to lead the world as it were. then you go ahead to haplessly and frivolously quote him again and introduce more absurdity.

It was clear the first time. What I wrote was immediately after what you highlighted in bold. No Ingersoll doesn't naively suppose that, he simply points out that believers aren't willing to admit their ignorance of the God they claim to believe in. In fact you've done that yourself several times already.

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1. What is the BETTER plow that has been invented that a father is objecting to?

That refers to believers generally resisting any changes.

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2. how is it modest to vaguely assert knowing more than ALL good men dead?

He said he knew more than all those dead theologians and I have to agree with him. Those theologians claim to know a God that is supposed to be beyond human understanding.

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3. Who made it a crime to think or stopped your right from thinking?

Your God made it a crime when he says just love me or be burned in hell forever as punishment.

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You are free to say what you will, don't shy away or complain about the consequences. Freedom shouldn't be confused for laxity.

I'm not complaining. I'm simply wondering why your God is complaining when he caused me to be this way.

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It is cruel for any man to order the killing of another, God is not man. Start being real.

What act can God perform that would make you say he is cruel?

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Oh, so your view depends on my view? That's new. What makes your view/position more moral than others', that was the question.

No, whether or not one position is more moral than another depends on what the other position is. When you tell me what your position is on the things you listed, I'll be able to tell you if my position is more moral and why.

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Hmmm, it is not cruel for a goat to kill seven other goats according to you. Any factors, or no matter the factors?

Goats aren't capable of reasoning.

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Okay, that's fair. You seem to be saying yes sometimes and no sometimes, right? Do you think it is cruel for a human being to kill HIS 6chickens before this year runs out?

That depends. Why is he killing these chickens? How is he killing them? How did he treat those chickens?

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Hmmm, the innocence. How about the destination involved? Would it be cruel to kill an infected baby or an ectopic pregnancy considering that it posed immediate danger to others?

What does this destination have to do with anything? Are you saying that sometimes it may be right to kill some innocent children because they may be going somewhere later?
Yes it would be cruel to kill a baby because it has some infection. Do you think it would be cruel to kill a baby because of an infection?
No it isn't cruel to terminate an ectopic pregnancy. Do you think it is cruel to terminate an ectopic pregnancy?
Another question. Why does God allow ectopic pregnancies?

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What is the difference, you said it is just right, or it just is right, or it is right for its own sake. No difference in meaning. You have no basis for your morality, it is an evident and logical conclusion. Who is wondering whether or not it is right or wrong to order the killing of 6 month old children? You seem to be the one wondering as you have being on about it in question format.

I said living morally is right for its own sake. That is a question I'm asking you and would like you to answer directly rather than just trying to dodge it.

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i made the right assertion, you cannot find a more superior God than mine. All gods are not equal, they don't even claim to be. You worship yourself and Ingersoll(and his likes) BTW.

I made the right conclusion that all God's are equal so your God is no more superior than Zeus. I'd rather worship myself or Ingersoll than worship your God since at the very least, I'm alive and Ingersoll was once alive.

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You IMPLY that morality should be based on nothingness when you say that living morally for its own sake is enough. That means NOTHING. Does God order us to kill babies or advice us To Molest female victims? Stop being evasive like Adam, hiding his sorry self from God like he can hide. That's the adamic nature at play. Mention the better suggestions many people have made that are better than what we already have in the Bible.

Living morally is not NOTHING. According to your Bible, he has already given the order and the advice.
Many people have suggested that we shouldn't keep slaves and that we shouldn't kill people who have been accused of being witches. That's just off the top of my head.

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i see you have not been working on your tenses. You said God WANTS to kill babies, the verse you quoted doesn't tell us that God WANTS to kill babies. i asked you if you want to kill babies remember?

You're the one not working on your tenses and being disingenuous. I said God has already ordered the killing of children. I notice that you've not denied that your God has given those orders.

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THAT is the question i am asking and that you are evading. This is the question. Does God command me to kill my child and offer her as burnt offering?
AGAIN, i have not seen any person(that is human being whom we can subject to the same standard) command me to kill my child and offer her as a burnt offering.

I'm not evading that question because it is irrelevant. My question has always been whether or not God has ever given such a command. Asking me what he does now doesn't demonstrate anything because he could always give you that command. And I see that once again, you've not answered that direct question.

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Again, you were evasive like Adam. Here it is again; Have YOU ever done or ordered anything that YOU now think was rubbish or silly?
Can we take YOU serious now or not? i'm hoping YOU would be straight enough to answer this simple questions instead of/before side-stepping and diverting issues.
Hope you can see your inconsistency? i asked a question and you accept it as an honest RESPONSE because you presume that you can twist it. You didn't consider the other a response when you said to learn to answer the actual question you ask rather than just inventing mine. Now, i didn't say anything about God but asked you a question about yourself. Are you under the delusion of being some imaginary God?
If you let go of that suspension, you'd see that i simply debunked your insinuation that doing a bad thing rules out your good thing. You are ignorantly selling that God did some bad/cruel things so He is not to be taken serious on any good thing. On that same basis/criteria, you should not be taken serious, because you(and every human) have done silly things and rubbish in the past. Get it now.

I'm not the one being questioned here, it is your God that is being assessed. When you asked that question, you were asking it in the context of comparing it to what I pointed out your God had done. That is why I think it is an honest response that you made accidentally.

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Lol, the humanist manifesto. That is your greater alternative than the Word of God below(1John4v7-9; 3v15-19), Your Substitute for the Bible as a Moral Guide? i'll check that later, got to do some other things ATM.

Yes the humanist manifesto is a much better alternative than your Bible. Sure you check it out and tell me whether or not it supports killing 6 month old babies like your Biblical God does.

tevinsolt:
I have answered this before I'll say it one more time.

You may have answered something but not my question.

tevinsolt:
My parents gave birth to me, and all through infancy to my early adulthood, I was under their care and guidance.

But you're not bound by your parents in the sense that you won't necessarily do whatever they ask you to do without thinking.

tevinsolt:
how much more God, I personally think it is pride asking why someone is exactly bound by God, compare your size to that of other things in the universe, your little time here on earth compared to space time.

You think it is pride, I think it is simply exercising my ability to think that makes me ask this question. I don't see what size has to do with anything. After all, I'm bigger than ants, bacteria and atoms I'll exist longe than certain elements so I don't see what your point here is.

tevinsolt:
Well you were created by God, your soul and spirit returns to Him, Your decisions will determine where you'd end up after death.

Are you saying that one should do what God wants because you think that without God, they won't exist? Well without your parents, you won't exist so is that a good reason for you to do whatever they ask? I don't mind where I end up after death so that too isn't a reason to do what your God wants.

tevinsolt:
If there's no God Justice is meaningless, it is just delusion we've accepted to make ourselves feel better.

I disagree. In fact, I think that with God, justice is meaningless and is a delusion that religious people have accepted to make themselves feel better when they're suffering here on earth.

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You were largely ignorant in spiritual matters or theology. Even after you were clearly shown otherwise, you still blindly insist that God created you to act a particular way. God DIDN'T create you to act that particular way, you were created for God's glory and praise. Adam was not BORN but created, and he was created good. It's like an HIV patient or some other deficiency, who was not born that way. But he acquired this virus and deficiency, and everything born by him is going to get it. That is a picture or sense in which we are to Adam. Adam was created good but got infected with the sin virus. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. You were born with a sinful nature, you were not created with a sinful nature. Your parents "born" you, not God. Being born again is to be born of God.

You're just getting yourself more and more confused. You said I was born in sin. Please can you tell me how I existed before I was born? This is why I and many others keep pointing out to you the fact that theology is an imaginary field. You're just making things up as you go along. Go on declare me ignorant. I also declare you ignorant in theology.

Edit: According to your theology, you declare that I'm born with a sinful nature. Why then is God surprised that I don't want anything to do with him? If he isn't surprised, then he expected me to have nothing to do with him before I was born.

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You couldn't.

I already said I don't see anything wrong in how they lived or died.

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Good, suit yourself. You were the one that said only idiots have no doubts. You have no doubts about your views on the existence of God and heaven i guess.

Sure. I said it. I already told you the amount of doubt I had in such issues.

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You don't know too far, that is why. When you suspend your thinking about God to only vilify Him, you are thinking less.

So it is thinking less to point out the actual fact of what your God did?

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What did i put in bold? What statement after a particular paragraph do you refer to? Your problem is the little thinking, you need to think deep. make use of that brain more and you would no doubt come to conclusions that there is a God in heaven.
Psa 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth his handiwork.
Psa 19:2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night showeth knowledge.
Psa 19:3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

Are you now unable to read? Or don't you know what a statement in bold refers to? Okay I'll point it out to you again. Take note of what you highlighted there in bold.

3. Your role model Ingersoll said so and you reflect it by quoting that "It is incredible that only idiots are absolutely sure of salvation. It is incredible that the more brain you have the less your chance is. There can be no danger in honest thought, and if the world ever advances beyond what it is to-day, it must be led by men who express their real opinions."

Robert Green Ingersoll

They say the religion of your fathers is good enough. Why should a father object to your inventing a better plow than he had? They say to me, do you know more than all the theologians dead? Being a perfectly modest man I say I think I do. Now we have come to the conclusion that every man has a right to think. Would God give a bird wings and make it a crime to fly? Would he give me brains and make it a crime to think? Any God that would damn one of his children for the expression of his honest thought wouldn't make a decent thief. When I read a book and don't believe it, I ought to say so. I will do so and take the consequences like a man.

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You need to be able to multitask. i like you but this your last post projects you as a lazy thinker, doing little thinking. We are doing your analysis and i already replied it. See it again in bold, you can go back to re-read that i already answered your question. Are you skimming through my posts? It is cruel for any man to order the killing of another, God is not man.

Actually we've not carried out the analysis because you're not answering the question I asked. Again, this is the question I asked.

Do you think it is cruel to order the killing of 6 month old babies? I've not said anything about God so just answer the actual question and stop being scared.

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Now, to analyse from my own perspective, answer these please.
1. What makes your view/position more moral than others'on examination malpractice, gambling, rebellion, bribery, staling, rioting, adultery, colors or corruption?

Well, that depends on what your view/position is on the things you listed. So, what are your views on the things you've listed?

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2. Do you think it is cruel for a goat to kill seven other goats?

No

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3. Do you think it is cruel for a human being to kill 6chickens before this year runs out?

That depends on various factors.

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4. What is the point about 6months, are you appealing to emotions, Is it less cruel to order the killing of 6years or 60years or 600years?

No, the point of 6 months is the innocence of the baby involved.

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Good. You simply proved my statement that your morality lacked any base, stuff is just right because it is right or because you say so. These were my questions again in case you want to lose focus. "Living morally is right, what makes it right? What is the basis? Why is something right and another wrong? What or who determines this?" Your answer is that IT IS JUST RIGHT. Let's go on.

You're merely confused again. What I've said is that living morally is right for its own sake. That is different from wondering whether or not it is right or wrong to order the killing of 6 month old children. Well since you've concluded that I have no basis for my morality, I'm happy to tell you that you have evil as the basis of your morality.

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i am right, no God is as great as my God. He is incomparable and happens to be among a select few that make such claims. Get back to me when you find a more superior God.
Isa 46:5 To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?
Isa 40:25 To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.
Psa 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
Exo 15:11 Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? who is like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?
Jer 32:17 Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:

All Gods are equal. Equally imaginary so I'm sorry I won't be able to find you a better God to worship. Though if you really want something to worship, you can worship the sun or stars. I on the other hand don't need anything to worship.

Robert Ingersoll
Every sect is a certificate that God has not plainly revealed his will to man. To each reader the Bible conveys a different meaning. About the meaning of this book, called a revelation, there have been ages of war, and centuries of sword and flame. If written by an infinite God, he must have known that these results must follow; and thus knowing, he must be responsible for all.

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You propound chaos when you imply that morality should be based on nothingness, individual thought. Your thought and views are different from others and other societies, times and climes. MY morality has its foundations in God(the FIFA analogy), so i play according to His rules, His Kingdom, His agreement, the New Testament/Covenant/Agreement which is the agreement He made with me. AGAIN, Focus on what we were discussing.
God orders no abominable crime, its all a matter of perspective. Now, don't get preposterous. God has not made SOME good suggestions, He made EVERY good suggestion. God is Love.'
Jam 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Tell me one good thing or moral thing that is not already stated, commanded and encouraged in the Bible. Pray tell. you forgot to answer these.
1. Does God order us to kill babies or advice us To Molest female victims?

I never said morality should be based on nothingness. I said living morally for its own sake is enough. Your God has ordered people to kill babies and rape female prisoners of war. Aren't those crimes?
Many people have made better suggestions than your God.

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Oh God does? You have a problem with your tenses or you are ready to show us where? When you disagree with God's ownership, you lose perspective in judgement/analysis. You suspend your thinking. You would judge better based on the correct perspective, that IF God is OWNER and CREATOR, He would and can do what He pleases to. That is the Biblical narrative and perspective. There is stuff you can do to your possession/belongings that i cannot. BECAUSE it is yours. You are a higher creature than a cockroach or a fish, that is one reason we would not talk of you murdering a cockroach or a fish, even when you did not create them or even own them.
All the people i mentioned simply showed you that the same act can be done by different people and one will be legal and the other illegal. The police or judge handcuff mr A without it being a crime, i handcuff mr A and it is a crime. While it is a crime for me to kill you, it is not a crime for God to kill you.
Your last line is a silly and baseless assumption.

You've not been reading your Bible I see. Check out Numbers 31:17 and 18

31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

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This is the question. Does God command me to kill my child and offer her as burnt offering?

That's not the question I asked. You need to learn to answer the actual question I ask rather than just inventing yours and ignoring it. Please here's the question I asked again. What do you think about a person who commands you to kill your child and offer her as burnt offering? Is this command right or wrong?

Please answer the actual question I asked.

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YES, i remember. Now you are coming home little by little with ONCE. Next time don't make ignorant statements as "if Christians kill 6 month old infants, that's fine but if someone else does it, it is an atrocity. This is one of the reasons why I say that with your God, there is no morality."
Have you ever done or ordered anything that YOU now think was rubbish or silly?
Can we take you serious now or not? i'm hoping you would be straight enough to answer this simple questions instead of/before side-stepping and diverting issues.

Finally an honest response. You're saying that God once ordered something that can now be considered as rubbish or silly. That's a great step forward.

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My question was What is a greater alternative than the Word of God below(1John4v7-9; 3v15-19)? You did not provide any alternative, criticism is not alternative. What Would You Substitute for the Bible as a Moral Guide?

The criticism is first to show you that what you've suggested as a moral guide isn't one.
You can start with something along the lines of what is outlined here.

Notice that in my responses, I answered the questions you asked directly. Please try to return that favour in your next response to me. Try answering my actual questions.

tevinsolt:
hell is said to be a place of fire and brimstone and a place of utter darkness. You didn't create yourself so you don't get to decide and you don't live even in this life recklessly thinking that breaking the law won't land you in Jail, how much more the person who created the universe and your being? Justice ultimately will be served, all things done in the dark will be brought to light, those who never had justice while alive, would after death.

The key phrase being "said to be". I don't think dead people would get justice that is why I believe in justice here on earth.

So why exactly is someone bound by God? Your parents gave birth to you but you're not bound by them are you?

tevinsolt:
Hell is separation from God. There the person can rebel all they like it won't mean a damn thing.

So it is merely separation from your God? Well that's better than those who say it is fire and brimstone.
If a person doesn't care about being separated from your God and doesn't want to be a reflection of your God. Does this mean the person isn't bound by him? Since it appears that being with your God after death is the reason for being bound by him.

tevinsolt:
I'm saying we only get to do what we want for a short period in our existence, after that the soul goes back to the creator and he has the final say on what happens then. to answer your question, no it doesn't mean humans aren't bound by "my" God's moral laws.

What if the person doesn't want to go to your God's heaven?

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If i said you were largely ignorant in spiritual matters or theology, you would contest it. of course, you are a sinner by nature, it is not just now. This is what the Bible says/teaches. Humans are sinners by nature and by deed. Your nature makes you a sinner, then your deeds also make you a sinner e.g a murderer, liar, thief etc. For instance, not every sinner is a murderer or armed robber. Those are deeds and deeds have their punishments. People would be judged ACCORDING to their works/deeds. But there is a default nature of sin called the Adamic nature. Every man is BORN that way, this is why it is of prime importance to be born AGAIN.
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

We were all conceived in sin, ALL have sinned, there is none righteous or good, not one. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, once you are born by man, you are man having the default sin nature. Marvel no more, you MUST be born again. Adam was not BORN but created, and he was created good. It's like an HIV patient or some other deficiency, who was not born that way. But he acquired this virus and deficiency, and everything born by him is going to get it. That is a picture or sense in which we are to Adam. Adam was created good but got infected with the sin virus. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

You can say whatever you want about "spiritual matters or theology". Declaring someone ignorant about imaginary fields of knowledge doesn't make you an expert. All you've said so far is that I'm acting according to how your God created me to act so why are you making so much noise? After all won't part of this "sinful" nature that I reject your God?

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You like to harp on about irrelevancies. Okay, they are your models. Hopefully, you don't end up like them.

I see nothing wrong with how they lived or died.

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Oh? But you said that only idiots have no doubts. Again, do you have no doubts that God is a immoral God, or that hell does not exist?

As much doubt as I have about the things I listed.

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No, they have not suspended their thinking. They have instead thought deeper and seen something that supersedes thinking, revelation. Talking about suspended thinking, that is what you do all the time. You are thinking less apparently. When you think God is not moral because you read something in Malachi but block your mind to a full perspective in reading Ezra and Job and Daniel and other Words/books of the same God, that is suspended thinking. Arguing on no basis that God did what is recorded in Exodus but did not do what is recorded in Genesis, that is suspended thinking. When you suspend your thinking about God to only vilify Him, you are thinking less.

As far as I know, if someone commands the killing of children and innocent people, such a person is evil. Telling me that he loves one tribe but hates all others doesn't make him good.

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You are taking us back to November 14, that is silly. Lemme brief you on the circle.

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You: It is incredible that only idiots are absolutely sure of salvation. It is incredible that the more brain you have the less your chance is. There can be no danger in honest thought, and if the world ever advances beyond what it is to-day, it must be led by men who express their real opinions.
Me: It is indeed incredible and mischievous of you and Ingersoll to so conclude.
You: How is it incredible?
Me: How would anybody come to conclusions that only idiots are absolutely sure of salvation, or that the more brain you have the less your chance is? What makes you think that believers are not expressing their real opinion?
You: Well are you absolutely sure of salvation? Your God generally asks people to suspend their thinking and do whatever he says.
Me: 1. How would anybody come to conclusions that only idiots are absolutely sure of salvation?
2. How would anybody come to conclusions that the more brain you have the less your chance is?
3. What makes you think that believers are not expressing their real opinion?
These were the questions asked.
You: 1. Only idiots have no doubt.
2. Your God demands that people suspend their thinking. Thus, the more you think, the less likely you are to suspend it for some imaginary God.
3. I never said believers weren't expressing their real opinions.
Me: 1. Do you have doubts on your opinions about God, Heaven and eternity?
2. There are christian thinkers and intelligent researchers and scientists. For one instance, i have been thinking with you as it were. If you would think deeply, you would know that there is God.
3. Your role model Ingersoll said so and you reflect it by quoting that "It is incredible that only idiots are absolutely sure of salvation. It is incredible that the more brain you have the less your chance is. There can be no danger in honest thought, and if the world ever advances beyond what it is to-day, it must be led by men who express their real opinions."
You: And what is wrong with what he said?

---

You're the one clearly being silly here. Read what you put in bold and tell me what is wrong with Ingersoll making that particular point. There's a reason why I placed my statement after that particular paragraph with its highlighted text. A little thinking won't hurt.

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So you agree that it is not thinking only that puts you in position to determine what cruelty is? You're thinking and i am thinking and others are thinking. You skipped the question "What makes your view/position more moral than others'on examination malpractice, gambling, rebellion, bribery, staling, rioting, adultery, colors or corruption? Do you think it is cruel for a goat to kill seven other goats? Do you think it is cruel for a human being to kill 6chickens before this year runs out? These are QUESTIONS, not rhetorics. BTW, what is the point about 6months, are you appealing to emotions, i thought you wanted to think? Is it less cruel to order the killing of 6years or 60years or 600years? It is cruel for any man to order the killing of another, God is not man.

What we're trying to do here is to analyze whether or not you or your God is cruel using questions. If you would like us to analyze the claim that your God is not cruel, then please begin by answering my question rather than talking about irrelevant stuff. Please try to focus on analyzing whether or not your God is cruel.

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Living morally is right, what makes it right? that is my question, what is the basis? Why is something right and another wrong? What or who determines this? It is a valid question not a silly question.

What is the point of this question when we agree that living morally is right? As far as I'm concerned, it just is right.

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Sure, it is relative in the order of less and superior. i know the Superior, God. Unlike the chaos that antitheists like you are propounding. If you want to partake in the FIFA world cup, you have to abide by the FIFA rules, not your rules or relative rules. i choose to serve my God and i abide by His rules, He is the Source and Foundation of my morality. Who and what is yours, Ingersoll or Russell? Secondly, dump your suspended thinking. Do you understand and read that the same God orders every conceivable good behaviour? Have you read the Bible or just what your mentors and models say about the Bible? Tell me one good thing or moral thing that is not already stated, commanded and encouraged in the Bible. Pray tell. Does God order us to kill babies or advice us to rape female victims? Your selective and suspended thinking indeed makes you think less. Get perspective.

You only claim to know some superior God but then anyone who believes in some God makes the same claim so who is right? I don't recall propounding chaos you're welcome to show me where I did that. I don't want your God's heaven so what does this mean? Does this then mean that I don't have to do what your God wants?

If the same God orders abominable crimes as well as gives good suggestions, I'd say that such a God is an abomination. So, telling me that your God has made some good suggestions too just doesn't cut it. According to your Bible, your God ordered some people to kill babies and adviced some people to rape female victims. Don't look at me, read your Bible. The fact that he hasn't said to you personally doesn't mean he can't say it to someone else.

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This is ludicrous. God is not a person in the sense of a human being, no Christian says so. God is not a MAN, remember that forever.
Num 23:19a God is not a man, 1Sa 15:29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man,
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

God is the Creator of Heaven and Earth. He at least claims so to be, He is not in the same pedestal of mere men. Like i showed you, the Umpire or referee is not in the same level as the players on a field. he is an Higher authority and can do things that those on the field cannot legally do. What is with you and your fixation on killing babies, do you want to kill some? God is the Owner of every man, He can do what He wants to with His possession. Same way you can do what you want with all the fish in your fish pond. You are not a fish, are you? The police man, the judge can handcuff and imprison and sentence because they are the authority or governing body. You cannot legally and normally do same even to a criminal. If you cannot see this straight and simple perspective, you are thinking less and need help.

No I don't want to kill babies but your God does so please talk to him. You say God owns eveyone. I disagree so who is right? I'm sorry but you're the one thinking less if you think that it is right for one person to own another person such that they can do whatever they want to them. Like ordering them to kill babies or rape people. All the people you mentioned when functioning appropriately are bound by laws but according to you, your God isn't bound by any laws so he could in fact just want people to suffer and that could be why he gave such command.

Image123:
Does God command me to kill my child and offer her as burnt offering? Is God a man? Again, these are questions.

Whatever he is, I'd say he is immoral? If he is moral, why would he give such a command? He has given such a command before hasn't he?

Image123:
i have not said any of this rubbish. Christians do not kill people, no one with the fear of my God and a respect for the agreement would do what your likes(Stalin and Hitler) did. Your reason for saying what you say is unreasonable and suspended. God is Love and expects us all, commands us all to live under the new covenant. Turning a miserable blind eye to that does not make it go away. What is a greater alternative than the Word of God below?
1Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1Jo 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1Jo 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jo 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
1Jo 3:19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

Do you remember that your God once ordered the killing of children? I'd say that is an example of some of that rubbish that he ordered.

What Would You Substitute for the Bible as a Moral Guide? (1900)
On the whole, the Old Testament cannot be considered a moral guide. Jehovah was not a moral God. He had all the vices, and he lacked all the virtues. He generally carried out his threats, but he never faithfully kept a promise. At the same time, we must remember that the Old Testament is a natural production, that it was written by savages who were slowly crawling toward the light. We must give them credit for the noble things they said, and we must be charitable enough to excuse their faults and even their crimes.

I admit that there are many good things in the New Testament, and if we take from that book the dogmas of eternal pain, of infinite revenge, of the atonement, of human sacrifice, of the necessity of shedding blood; if we throw away the doctrine of non-resistance, of loving enemies, the idea that prosperity is the result of wickedness, that poverty is a preparation for Paradise, if we throw all these away and take the good, sensible passages, applicable to conduct, then we can make a fairly good moral guide, — narrow, but moral.
Of course, many important things would be left out. You would have nothing about human rights, nothing in favor of the family, nothing for education, nothing for investigation, for thought and reason, but still you would have a fairly good moral guide. On the other hand, if you would take the foolish passages, the extreme ones, you could make a creed that would satisfy an insane asylum. If you take the cruel passages, the verses that inculcate eternal hatred, verses that writhe and hiss like serpents, you can make a creed that would shock the heart of a hyena. It may be that no book contains better passages than the New Testament, but certainly no book contains worse. Below the blossom of love you find the thorn of hatred; on the lips that kiss, you find the poison of the cobra. The Bible is not a moral guide. Any man who follows faithfully all its teachings is an enemy of society and will probably end his days in a prison or an asylum.

tevinsolt:
One of the attribute we possess as humans is free will. God won't stop a person that wants to do things his/her own way, "God won't force anyone into heaven against their will".

Does this mean humans aren't bound by your God's moral laws?

tpiah2:
Are we having this debate again? I addressed this on the other thread.

Are you people saying you approve of pharaoh killing the hebrew babies and likewise herod killing toddlers?

You make no sound about these examples but are constantly squawking like witches over verses you twist for your evil agenda?

Fear God

If you are killed first by the person you meant to kill, then take it as your destiny. The bible says you don't enter a strong man's house if you are not ready to die.

Which Bible? What chapter and verse?

tevinsolt:
If a God pays no heed to the moral law he has set, I don't think he would care if his creation do as they wish. the moral responsibility we have is a reflection of God's being and character.

What about the person who doesn't want to be a reflection of your God's being and character? Is such a person bound by that God's moral laws?

tevinsolt:
Still you haven't shown me, or quote where it says God approves of rape.

You never asked me to show it to you. If I showed it to you, will you accept that your God is immoral?

tevinsolt:
It'll be moral, because first of all he gave the life, and decides when to take it back,

Firstly, I disagree with the claim that your God gave anyone life. Secondly even if your God did give life, it still doesn't give your God the right to order others to do this killing. Why doesn't he simply kill these people by lighting strikes rather than forcing people to be murderers? Thirdly, this makes your God arbitrary or immoral rather than just.

tevinsolt:
second the babies won't go through life as orphans,

In that case, why not kill all orphans?

tevinsolt:
third prevents the kids from eventually following the path of their progenitors and as a result attacking the Israelite. Which actually did happen because King Saul didn't do as God asked of him.

So it is now moral to pre-emptively kill children because they may do something wrong? Frankly, this means that your God is not even as moral as the law which doesn't allow you to kill people before they've committed a crime.

tevinsolt:
If there's no God, then can you explain why it is immoral to kill babies, then I will explain why I said "it is the survival of the fittest in an unguided world"

It is immoral to kill babies because babies haven't done anything wrong to warrant their murder. Please go ahead with your explanation.

You never explained whether or not the Sabbath law is a moral law.