₦airaland Forum

Ihedinobi: However, I prefer "thus" in the sense of "in this way", not "and so" in my statement. (edit: I nearly changed the word to "therefore", but I had the beginnings of an understanding into the existence of other "brotherhoods" than that of the Faith, so I retained it.) I agree that with all of Frosbel's madness, he is still my brother according to the flesh. But within the community of believers, I do not recognize his claim to brotherhood or the claim of any who kick against the Perfection and Necessity of the Atonement of Lord Jesus.


Edited.

Pagan Roots of the Trinity Doctrine
(© Ed Torrence 2002)

The Trinity doctrine is not unique to, nor original with, Christianity. It has deep Pagan roots, dating back to at least two centuries BC, and has been prominent in many Eastern religions ever since.

The Roman Catholic and Orthodox Church Councils (Western and Eastern churches) brought the Trinity doctrine into Christianity. This occurred before there was a final split between the two over authority. Even those who voted the idea into Roman Catholic dogma declared it was a mystery that had to be accepted by faith. The theologians that wrote the Catholic Encyclopedia admit that there is no Old Testament indication of a triune God, and very little in the New Testament that can be construed that way. They also admit that it was a product of tradition that evolved over four centuries. The RCC gives equal credence to tradition and scripture. In this case tradition is almost the whole criteria for this dogma, aside from a few scriptures that are wrenched out of context and misinterpreted, trying to give the idea legitimacy.

The evolution of this doctrine within Christianity began with The Apostle’s Creed, progressed to the Nicene Creed, and finally culminated in the Athanasian Creed. Click on the links below to read more about them.

The Apostle’s Creed which was not written by the Apostles at all, but by the RCC. While this simple statement of faith had nothing to say about a Trinity, or even hint that Jesus was God, it laid the groundwork for further expansion, and was modified several times over the years.

The Nicene Creed established in 325 AD, was the next step. At the insistence of the Roman emperor, Constantine, and for the purpose of establishing unity between Christianity and Pagan beliefs, Jesus was declared to be coequal, coeternal, and consubstantial with God. This established, Constantine made Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire. Before Constantine’s rule the Christians suffered much persecution at the hands of Rome.

The Athanasian Creed espouses the Trinitarian concepts of Athanasius, a fourth century theologian. The time of its original writing is not known, nor is its author. Most historians agree that it was probably composed in the fifth century, though some claim it may have been as late as the ninth century. Even the Catholic Encyclopedia is vague about its origin.

The Christian Church’s roots were originally from Judaism, which was, and still is, a monotheistic (One-God) religion. There is no belief in a polytheistic (Plural) God in the Old Testament. On the contrary, OT scriptures declare the singleness of God.

Isa. 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isa. 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

The Nicene and Athenian creeds are in direct denial of these scriptures as well as many others. First, they had to declare that Jesus was God, and that he was eternal–which also contradicts scripture.

Num. 23:19
God is not a man that he should lie, neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Jesus was a man; and he referred to himself as the Son of Man many times.

Psa. 2:7
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Jesus was begotten, (born) at a point in time, according to the Jewish prophecies. The Athanasian Creed also states that Jesus was God incarnated. This contradicts scripture also, because God does not change.

Mal. 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

If there is no scriptural basis for the doctrine of a triune God, then from whence did this idea come?

Rome, the seat of emperors for the Roman Empire and the power base of political popes, was heavily influenced by the philosophy and paganism of the former Grecian Empire, which took in much more territory than the Roman Empire ever achieved. Greek literature, sociology, religion, and superstitions played a great part in the formation of Roman government, philosophy, and religion. Therefore, it is no wonder that the Romans incorporated much of their custom and culture into Christianity, just as the Jewish believers did in Jerusalem.

When the Apostle Paul was in Athens he observed, among the worshippers of many pagan gods, an altar to the Unknown God. He took advantage of their superstitions to preach to them of the one true God. Among these people were Epicureans and Stoics philosophers who were amazed at Paul’s preaching of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Up until the rule of Emperor Constantine, the Christians of the Roman Empire were persecuted. Constantine, however, in the early fourth century saw a chance to help restore the former glory of the Empire by bringing about religious unity. In exchange for the cooperation of the Roman Christian Bishops he made Christianity the official state religion. However, this came at great cost to the true gospel of Jesus Christ. From this time forward Christianity became a mixture of the Christian faith and Paganism.

One of the most common beliefs among Pagan cultures was in a trinity of gods. We find this among the Egyptians, Indians (of India), Japanese, Sumarians, Chaldeans, and of course, the Babylonians, to where historians trace the roots of trinitarism.

Church history shows a gradual assimilation of Pagan ideas into Christianity, brought about mostly by the Roman or Western Church, which became a political/religious extension of the Roman Empire. Foremost among the pagan ideas was the adoption of the trinity doctrine into the dogma of the church. Pagan holidays (holy days) were also incorporated into tradition by “Christianizing” them, thus we end up with Christmas being celebrated on Dec 25th; Easter, which combined the resurrection of Christ with the pagan goddess Ester, and Halloween combined with All Saint’s Day.

In time, the political power of the Roman Popes and the wealth they controlled exceeded that of the Emperors, and the Church became a Monarchy with power over kings and nations. Religious tolerance went out the door, and the Church embarked on crusades and inquisitions to purge out by ex-communication, torture, war, and murder, all those who disagreed with official Church doctrine or resisted the authority of the Pope. Christ-like behavior became a thing of the past, and Jesus’ teachings neglected and changed.

The Reformation, brought about by Martin Luther, threw off the yoke of the Papists and declared justification by faith instead of salvation by obeying the Roman church. However, the Pagan doctrines and traditions of Catholicism carried over into Protestantism and remain intact to this day.

The Trinity doctrine was by no means adopted unanimously by church leaders of the day. Bitter battles ensued, and three versions of the trinity debated, as well as the non-trinity belief, until the present one was adopted. It was a vote of men that established it, not revelation from God or scriptures. Christianity had rejected the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, and replaced Him with a Pagan invention. [For further study read When Jesus Became God: The Struggle to Define Christianity During the Last Days of Rome.]

[Used with permission. “Rediscovering Original Christian Theology,” Pagan Roots of Trinity Doctrine by Ed Torrence © 2002]

Pagan Roots of the Trinity Doctrine
(© Ed Torrence 2002)

The Trinity doctrine is not unique to, nor original with, Christianity. It has deep Pagan roots, dating back to at least two centuries BC, and has been prominent in many Eastern religions ever since.

The Roman Catholic and Orthodox Church Councils (Western and Eastern churches) brought the Trinity doctrine into Christianity. This occurred before there was a final split between the two over authority. Even those who voted the idea into Roman Catholic dogma declared it was a mystery that had to be accepted by faith. The theologians that wrote the Catholic Encyclopedia admit that there is no Old Testament indication of a triune God, and very little in the New Testament that can be construed that way. They also admit that it was a product of tradition that evolved over four centuries. The RCC gives equal credence to tradition and scripture. In this case tradition is almost the whole criteria for this dogma, aside from a few scriptures that are wrenched out of context and misinterpreted, trying to give the idea legitimacy.

The evolution of this doctrine within Christianity began with The Apostle’s Creed, progressed to the Nicene Creed, and finally culminated in the Athanasian Creed. Click on the links below to read more about them.

The Apostle’s Creed which was not written by the Apostles at all, but by the RCC. While this simple statement of faith had nothing to say about a Trinity, or even hint that Jesus was God, it laid the groundwork for further expansion, and was modified several times over the years.

The Nicene Creed established in 325 AD, was the next step. At the insistence of the Roman emperor, Constantine, and for the purpose of establishing unity between Christianity and Pagan beliefs, Jesus was declared to be coequal, coeternal, and consubstantial with God. This established, Constantine made Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire. Before Constantine’s rule the Christians suffered much persecution at the hands of Rome.

The Athanasian Creed espouses the Trinitarian concepts of Athanasius, a fourth century theologian. The time of its original writing is not known, nor is its author. Most historians agree that it was probably composed in the fifth century, though some claim it may have been as late as the ninth century. Even the Catholic Encyclopedia is vague about its origin.

The Christian Church’s roots were originally from Judaism, which was, and still is, a monotheistic (One-God) religion. There is no belief in a polytheistic (Plural) God in the Old Testament. On the contrary, OT scriptures declare the singleness of God.

Isa. 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isa. 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

The Nicene and Athenian creeds are in direct denial of these scriptures as well as many others. First, they had to declare that Jesus was God, and that he was eternal–which also contradicts scripture.

Num. 23:19
God is not a man that he should lie, neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Jesus was a man; and he referred to himself as the Son of Man many times.

Psa. 2:7
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Jesus was begotten, (born) at a point in time, according to the Jewish prophecies. The Athanasian Creed also states that Jesus was God incarnated. This contradicts scripture also, because God does not change.

Mal. 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

If there is no scriptural basis for the doctrine of a triune God, then from whence did this idea come?

Rome, the seat of emperors for the Roman Empire and the power base of political popes, was heavily influenced by the philosophy and paganism of the former Grecian Empire, which took in much more territory than the Roman Empire ever achieved. Greek literature, sociology, religion, and superstitions played a great part in the formation of Roman government, philosophy, and religion. Therefore, it is no wonder that the Romans incorporated much of their custom and culture into Christianity, just as the Jewish believers did in Jerusalem.

When the Apostle Paul was in Athens he observed, among the worshippers of many pagan gods, an altar to the Unknown God. He took advantage of their superstitions to preach to them of the one true God. Among these people were Epicureans and Stoics philosophers who were amazed at Paul’s preaching of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Up until the rule of Emperor Constantine, the Christians of the Roman Empire were persecuted. Constantine, however, in the early fourth century saw a chance to help restore the former glory of the Empire by bringing about religious unity. In exchange for the cooperation of the Roman Christian Bishops he made Christianity the official state religion. However, this came at great cost to the true gospel of Jesus Christ. From this time forward Christianity became a mixture of the Christian faith and Paganism.

One of the most common beliefs among Pagan cultures was in a trinity of gods. We find this among the Egyptians, Indians (of India), Japanese, Sumarians, Chaldeans, and of course, the Babylonians, to where historians trace the roots of trinitarism.

Church history shows a gradual assimilation of Pagan ideas into Christianity, brought about mostly by the Roman or Western Church, which became a political/religious extension of the Roman Empire. Foremost among the pagan ideas was the adoption of the trinity doctrine into the dogma of the church. Pagan holidays (holy days) were also incorporated into tradition by “Christianizing” them, thus we end up with Christmas being celebrated on Dec 25th; Easter, which combined the resurrection of Christ with the pagan goddess Ester, and Halloween combined with All Saint’s Day.

In time, the political power of the Roman Popes and the wealth they controlled exceeded that of the Emperors, and the Church became a Monarchy with power over kings and nations. Religious tolerance went out the door, and the Church embarked on crusades and inquisitions to purge out by ex-communication, torture, war, and murder, all those who disagreed with official Church doctrine or resisted the authority of the Pope. Christ-like behavior became a thing of the past, and Jesus’ teachings neglected and changed.

The Reformation, brought about by Martin Luther, threw off the yoke of the Papists and declared justification by faith instead of salvation by obeying the Roman church. However, the Pagan doctrines and traditions of Catholicism carried over into Protestantism and remain intact to this day.

The Trinity doctrine was by no means adopted unanimously by church leaders of the day. Bitter battles ensued, and three versions of the trinity debated, as well as the non-trinity belief, until the present one was adopted. It was a vote of men that established it, not revelation from God or scriptures. Christianity had rejected the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, and replaced Him with a Pagan invention. [For further study read When Jesus Became God: The Struggle to Define Christianity During the Last Days of Rome.]

[Used with permission. “Rediscovering Original Christian Theology,” Pagan Roots of Trinity Doctrine by Ed Torrence © 2002]

Pagan Roots of the Trinity Doctrine
(© Ed Torrence 2002)

The Trinity doctrine is not unique to, nor original with, Christianity. It has deep Pagan roots, dating back to at least two centuries BC, and has been prominent in many Eastern religions ever since.

The Roman Catholic and Orthodox Church Councils (Western and Eastern churches) brought the Trinity doctrine into Christianity. This occurred before there was a final split between the two over authority. Even those who voted the idea into Roman Catholic dogma declared it was a mystery that had to be accepted by faith. The theologians that wrote the Catholic Encyclopedia admit that there is no Old Testament indication of a triune God, and very little in the New Testament that can be construed that way. They also admit that it was a product of tradition that evolved over four centuries. The RCC gives equal credence to tradition and scripture. In this case tradition is almost the whole criteria for this dogma, aside from a few scriptures that are wrenched out of context and misinterpreted, trying to give the idea legitimacy.

The evolution of this doctrine within Christianity began with The Apostle’s Creed, progressed to the Nicene Creed, and finally culminated in the Athanasian Creed. Click on the links below to read more about them.

The Apostle’s Creed which was not written by the Apostles at all, but by the RCC. While this simple statement of faith had nothing to say about a Trinity, or even hint that Jesus was God, it laid the groundwork for further expansion, and was modified several times over the years.

The Nicene Creed established in 325 AD, was the next step. At the insistence of the Roman emperor, Constantine, and for the purpose of establishing unity between Christianity and Pagan beliefs, Jesus was declared to be coequal, coeternal, and consubstantial with God. This established, Constantine made Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire. Before Constantine’s rule the Christians suffered much persecution at the hands of Rome.

The Athanasian Creed espouses the Trinitarian concepts of Athanasius, a fourth century theologian. The time of its original writing is not known, nor is its author. Most historians agree that it was probably composed in the fifth century, though some claim it may have been as late as the ninth century. Even the Catholic Encyclopedia is vague about its origin.

The Christian Church’s roots were originally from Judaism, which was, and still is, a monotheistic (One-God) religion. There is no belief in a polytheistic (Plural) God in the Old Testament. On the contrary, OT scriptures declare the singleness of God.

Isa. 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isa. 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

The Nicene and Athenian creeds are in direct denial of these scriptures as well as many others. First, they had to declare that Jesus was God, and that he was eternal–which also contradicts scripture.

Num. 23:19
God is not a man that he should lie, neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Jesus was a man; and he referred to himself as the Son of Man many times.

Psa. 2:7
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Jesus was begotten, (born) at a point in time, according to the Jewish prophecies. The Athanasian Creed also states that Jesus was God incarnated. This contradicts scripture also, because God does not change.

Mal. 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

If there is no scriptural basis for the doctrine of a triune God, then from whence did this idea come?

Rome, the seat of emperors for the Roman Empire and the power base of political popes, was heavily influenced by the philosophy and paganism of the former Grecian Empire, which took in much more territory than the Roman Empire ever achieved. Greek literature, sociology, religion, and superstitions played a great part in the formation of Roman government, philosophy, and religion. Therefore, it is no wonder that the Romans incorporated much of their custom and culture into Christianity, just as the Jewish believers did in Jerusalem.

When the Apostle Paul was in Athens he observed, among the worshippers of many pagan gods, an altar to the Unknown God. He took advantage of their superstitions to preach to them of the one true God. Among these people were Epicureans and Stoics philosophers who were amazed at Paul’s preaching of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Up until the rule of Emperor Constantine, the Christians of the Roman Empire were persecuted. Constantine, however, in the early fourth century saw a chance to help restore the former glory of the Empire by bringing about religious unity. In exchange for the cooperation of the Roman Christian Bishops he made Christianity the official state religion. However, this came at great cost to the true gospel of Jesus Christ. From this time forward Christianity became a mixture of the Christian faith and Paganism.

One of the most common beliefs among Pagan cultures was in a trinity of gods. We find this among the Egyptians, Indians (of India), Japanese, Sumarians, Chaldeans, and of course, the Babylonians, to where historians trace the roots of trinitarism.

Church history shows a gradual assimilation of Pagan ideas into Christianity, brought about mostly by the Roman or Western Church, which became a political/religious extension of the Roman Empire. Foremost among the pagan ideas was the adoption of the trinity doctrine into the dogma of the church. Pagan holidays (holy days) were also incorporated into tradition by “Christianizing” them, thus we end up with Christmas being celebrated on Dec 25th; Easter, which combined the resurrection of Christ with the pagan goddess Ester, and Halloween combined with All Saint’s Day.

In time, the political power of the Roman Popes and the wealth they controlled exceeded that of the Emperors, and the Church became a Monarchy with power over kings and nations. Religious tolerance went out the door, and the Church embarked on crusades and inquisitions to purge out by ex-communication, torture, war, and murder, all those who disagreed with official Church doctrine or resisted the authority of the Pope. Christ-like behavior became a thing of the past, and Jesus’ teachings neglected and changed.

The Reformation, brought about by Martin Luther, threw off the yoke of the Papists and declared justification by faith instead of salvation by obeying the Roman church. However, the Pagan doctrines and traditions of Catholicism carried over into Protestantism and remain intact to this day.

The Trinity doctrine was by no means adopted unanimously by church leaders of the day. Bitter battles ensued, and three versions of the trinity debated, as well as the non-trinity belief, until the present one was adopted. It was a vote of men that established it, not revelation from God or scriptures. Christianity had rejected the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus, and replaced Him with a Pagan invention. [For further study read When Jesus Became God: The Struggle to Define Christianity During the Last Days of Rome.]

[Used with permission. “Rediscovering Original Christian Theology,” Pagan Roots of Trinity Doctrine by Ed Torrence © 2002]

danwo: PS: Where is the Poll

obadiah777: So your position is God is 3 in 1 ? trinity. and may i add there is two of me. one is dormant the other is active, on Nairaland that is

OLAADEGBU: Yes, the same way that you are immortal. Once born we continue to live either with or without God.

Image123: i showed you Paul and John calling themselves and others father . you understand Jesus pass dem na, no be you? impossible is nothing.

(1) It puts one person on a pedestal - above all others. In many churches this veneration of the pastor closely resembles Idolatry. His word is law and the entire church revolves around this one man.

(2) This leads directly to PRIDE. The position that we place these men in is terribly dangerous for them and for the whole church. It is very difficult NOT to develop Pride when treated in this way. Pride is the most subtle and spiritually fatal of diseases. It wreaks havoc wherever it finds a home.

(3) Control, manipulation and spiritual abuse become common where power is concentrated in the hands of one 'venerated' figure. Power corrupts. Flattery corrupts. Veneration corrupts. And before you know it, people are being terribly damaged and wounded by the control and the "management techniques" being exerted from the top. Then new teachings on "covering" and "submission" are wheeled out, to lend an air of legitemacy to the oppression that is being visited upon people. Everyone is told to 'submit' and not to question. The "one man pastor" system lends itself to this whole scenario like a hand in a glove. It is virtually made for it.

(4) It turns the church into a bunch of "spectators". In other words, everybody sits around and watches while the 'professionals' do most of the work. It is their "job" after all. -This is an absolute disaster. For we ALL have gifts and callings and anointings from God.

(5) The position lends itself to "robes and titles" - or perhaps expensive 3-piece suits! Jesus said to his disciples, "You are not to be called 'Rabbi,' because you have only one Master and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ." (See Matt 23:5-12, NIV). -None of this seems to stop men from taking on "titles" today.

(6) Many pastors by their nature tend to be "play it safe" types. They don't like the boat being rocked and they are often resistant to real change. The fact that today's church is in the hands of pastors, rather than apostles and prophets (as it should be) who are the "risk-takers" of the church, means that it is slow to react and is easily out-manoevred by the enemy. We desperately need anointed 'risk-takers' and change-oriented leaders today.

(7) Because the position of Pastor is usually the "only job going" in the church, it forces many who are actually evangelists or prophets to become Pastors, just so they can get to minister. Often they are quite out of place, and many times this leads to disaster.

(8 ) All of this creates such a load on the shoulders of the man that is appointed Senior Pastor, that this job has one of the worst BURNOUT rates in the western world.

(9) At the end of the day, just like church buildings, the best reason for rejecting this model of leadership is that it is simply NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Some people say that having a 'board of elders' who can hire or fire the pastor keeps all of this in check. Not so. It may keep the "control" side of things down, but the mere fact that they feel the need to "appoint a pastor" just shows how hooked into this system they really are. It is centuries old, and all we are doing is perpetuating it.

So how did they do things in the New Testament?

Well, the first thing we need to realize is that the apostles were not "professionals". Apart from Paul they had never been to Bible College (These were run by the Pharisees!). Most of the apostles were simple fishermen and tax-collectors. But they had spent MUCH TIME WITH JESUS. -That was their qualification.

And it is clear that Pastors were never in charge of the church. It was the APOSTLES who were given that role. But they never "lorded it over" the people. And wherever they went they appointed elders or overseers (plural) to watch over the church in their absence. Unfortunately, some Bible translations use the word "Bishop", which gives the impression of a 'hierarchy'. But this was not in the original. As Greek scholar W.E. Vine states: "'Presbuteros', an elder, is another term for the same person as bishop or overseer. See Acts 20:17 with verse 28." So these were just simple "elders" - that's all.

It was only when the church fell into serious decline and then into Romanism that the complicated "hierarchies" began. Before this, it was all very simple. Perhaps one day it will be so again?

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~revival/lie-3.html

Most churches today are run using the 'Senior Pastor' model, where one man (almost always with a degree from Bible College) does most of the ministering and is looked up to as "the man of God". Few could deny that pastors are truly the ones who are running the church today.Though it could be argued in a number of places that the "big tithers" run the church and have the pastor under their thumb. Such a sick arrangement is just further proof of the damage being done by this "One-Man Pastor" model. It is wide open to abuse.

Personally, I get on well with a lot of pastors that I meet. But I guess that writing on this topic will cause people to question my motives and accuse me of being "rebellious" and having 'problems with authority', etc. But honestly, this is not the case. I simply believe that it is time for us to examine the facts of the matter - and acquaint ourselves with what the Bible truly says. After all, only the Truth can set us free.

Amazingly enough, in the Book of Acts, which is the history of the first 30 YEARS of the early church, the word 'Pastor' is NOT EVEN MENTIONED ONCE. -Which is pretty astounding considering how often we use it today. In fact, even in the whole New Testament the word is only used rarely - especially when referring to ministry 'offices'. And when it does appear, it is found near the bottom of a list of ministries in the church: "It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers..." (Eph 4:11, NIV).

There were elders and 'overseers' (-these terms are inter- changeable) in the New Testament church. But that is totally different from the position of "one man pastor" that we have today.

So how did Pastors end up running everything? And what effect does this have on the church?

Well, when you study history it becomes obvious that we mostly got this concept from Rome - not from the Bible. As Beckham said (-quoted in one of our previous articles): "Emporer Constantine developed a church structure that has lasted for seventeen centuries... People go to a building (cathedral) on a special day of the week (Sunday) and someone (a priest, or today, a pastor) does something to them (teaching, preaching, absolution or healing) or for them (a ritual or entertainment) for a price (offerings)."

In most cases, what we are seeing today is the continuation of this "Clergy and Laity" system that dominated the church during the Dark Ages. There is very little difference, really. The titles have changed but apart from that it is basically the old Roman Catholic system of professional 'Priests' running everything. We call them 'pastors' but the position is basically the same.

These are people who have gained a degree from Bible College, and now we pay them to be our "minister". Never mind the fact that we are ALL supposed to be ministers!

What this results in is two different 'classes' in the church. -The "ministering" class and the "churchgoing" class (or 'laity'). -Which is something that God utterly detests. He cannot stand His people being divided up into 'classes' like this. It is the doctrine of the "Nicolaitans" (Rev 2).

But is it really that bad? What harm does it really do?

Below are the specific ways that this "one man pastor" model does enormous harm to the church: