₦airaland Forum

airmark:
Should we chase them away from here or pity them?


[img]https://media1./images/531078c8c1fba1861bdd7602c91cae9b/tenor.gif[/img]

Fire down bro

I have my popcorn here

Airmark on the beat

I swear TT na king of troll .. See the way him troll Ole scatter

1-1 with penalty approaching, him just show Ole how it's done.

Kepa for Balon d'or...... Argue with your keyboard

Starting XI

kendrick93:
pool were fielding a combination of Rhys Williams , Henderson, Fabinho, nat Philips at CB.
You would be dishonest if you're telling me Vandjjik won't improve that backline hence better results.
c'mon now

Check their goals conceded, it's similar to when VVD was around. They lost up to 5 matches by a single goal. They couldn't score Burnley, Brighton, Fulham, Chelsea etc.... All these matches were 1-0..... Are you telling me a fit inform Liverpool forward line can't score average of 2 goals in those matches?

With VVD, they concede one or 2 goals and still win the match. How come they concede one and still lost?

Wait, na £1M per week PSG give Messi?

kendrick93:
A fit VVD and Liverpool challenge for the league last season.
make no mistake about that

More like a more sharp forward line... Salah dipped form. Firmino is just being Firmino. Mane was anonymous for a large part of the season. We only started to see the lethal Mane we use to know at the tail end of the season. Jota came in firing on all cylinders then got injured.

Forget VVD. Liverpool's problem was attack.

raumdeuter:
https://j.gifs.com/3QpMyO.gif

The best time to have stopped that attack above was when Morata was in his half, but VVD backed off Morata that was hesistant probably trying to win a cheap free kick to waste time, but the more Morata went he gained confidence and it became harder for VVD and this was what led to the goal

Morata's last touch (heavy touch) before he passed is the perfect opportunity for VVD to nip the ball off him. But he was busy organising traffic as the warden that he is...

kendrick93:
To chip in on this-
I would say losing Van Djik meant the team was more vulnerable to counters, not just VVD but Gomez & matip also.
Van Djik leadership, one on one ability, pace were crucial to the way Liverpool set up.
The high line operated by klopp wasn't effective anymore cos teams could just play a long ball and they would get in behind Liverpool's backline, so in this instance Liverpool missed Van Djik aerial presence and his ability to hold & organise a high line.
Don't forget also that VVD is Liverpool's best long ball passer, I couldn't count the amount of times where Van Djik would spray out a long ball to Salah or TAA and suddenly Liverpool would be up one one one in a threatening position.
That variety of play was severely missed.
Did Liverpool missed Van Djik last season? absolutely yes.
Was he the sole reason why there season was poor?
No, Van Djik and the other host of injuries combined were responsible.

The bolded is the point many VVD supporters refuse to accept. VVD was not the only player out injured for long period. I don't know why people will say Liverpool slumped just because of VVD.

Few pages ago, we see a gif of VVD vs Morata, his premium leadership quality and one on one ability and how it played out.

Edith: look at the gif above sef

NinjaMetahuman:
nope stat didn't prove otherwise.

Full season with VVd
Alex had more than 20 goals contributions
Robertson also pulled good numbers.

Season without VVd they both had 7-6 respectively
Big difference.

You refused to answer, why did attackers suddenly become blunt after VVd's departure? Why did it happen right after VVd had injury?

We are not arguing amount of numbers here. The numbers I pulled out is to prove to you that the full backs still attack even after VVD. You said they lost confidence and stopped going forward. If that's true, how did TAA get the goals and assists after VVD left? However meagre the numbers are is not my concern. I have used the numbers to prove to you that they still attack.

@the bolded....The slump didnt happen immediately after VVD injury. VVD got injured October when they were 3rd in the log. It didn't affect them immediately. Infact Liverpool topped the table at some point till around January... Then gradually the slump started. Remember, their injury problems continued piling up and it finally caught up with them.

NinjaMetahuman:
You are the one digressing when the point is clear enough.

Already told you, the games Liverpool lost, they could have won if Alex and Robertson were at their best. They were not at their best because VVd was not at the back to give them confidence to go forward and join the attack.
And they could have drawn some of the games self if they didn't score. Also they will be less vulnerable to counter attack like 2 seasons ago..

I think You just want to extend the argument for some reason.
Me no get strength for long argument o.

VVd might not be the best for you, but you people should stop making it look like VVd is some insignificant defender or some gbegbe defender.

Which best are you talking about? Liverpool forwards don't score! How else will I say this for you to get me? Full backs are still doing their job BUT the forwards can score!

If TAA stopped attacking, he will not have 2 goals and 6 assists AFTER VVD left the team.

The team as a whole lost form, but even at that, the full backs still contribute to attack. The forwards have majority of the blame in that slump. They just couldn't score. With VVD, Liverpool concede goals same as without him so the problem was not VVD. It's the forward players.

But if you want to pin it on the defenders, the screenshot below will tell you that's its not only VVD that missed a large part of the season. No matter how you put it, VVD's absence only is not the cause of their slump.

NinjaMetahuman:
lol
So Robertson had 3-goal contributions is 5 games with VVd while Alex had 2.
then Roberson had 5-goal contributions and Alex had 6 in 33 games without VVd.

Is that correct? Oya Do the math and see which one is better based on trajectory.

Trajectory is not the issue here.

You said that after VVD injury, the full backs don't go forward again. Stats prove otherwise. They attack, and they score/assist.

I keep telling you that Liverpool attack became blunt. If you dig deep, you will probably see that those full backs create chances that the forwards fluff.

Does the full backs sit back after VVD injury? No. Stats prove otherwise.

NinjaMetahuman:
you painted a picture of liverpool dominating games but lost to one short on target which I corrected.

Their game against mancity that they lost 4-1, they had more possession but mancity had more shots off goal and on goal.

Would you say they were trying to break mancity By passing around?

And I said having more position could just mean defenders and midfielders passing to each other. Emphasis on could.

Let's try not to digress.

I specifically mentioned matches Liverpool lost 1-0 to "lesser" teams. They had a large chunk of possession.

Where was TAA and Robertson positioned averagely in such matches? Do they sit back in their own half of the pitch because VVD is not around? Also, was it VVD's absence that made them lose those games 1-0 to Burnley, Brighton, Fulham, Everton (2-0)? Did you see TAA and Robertson outputs AFTER VVD got injured? Honest answers to these questions will tell you exactly what was Liverpool's problem last season.

Match day.

Wish you all the best boys. Let the trophy haul continue...

KTBFFH!

Who don lock in their draft?

I keep tinkering mine

NinjaMetahuman:
Wrong.

Most games Liverpool lost last season after VVd left, they either got outplayed or have same goal attempt stat.
It's not like liverpool had 10 shot on goal and failed to score while opponent had just 1 and score.

Holding more possession doesn't mean they are attacking. It could just be defenders and midfielders passing at the back and middle.
Go and look at each game stats again.
Either they have same shot on goal as opponent or opponent had more.
Sometimes when you hold most of the ball, it looks like you are the one playing which is wrong. Sarriball should have thought a lot of people that.

Besides, liverpool didn't start playing teams that parked the bus last season.
They played teams and they cracked a lot of teams that parked the bus when the two back wingers were firing.

Ask yourself, why did Liverpool attack suddenly became toothless when then wing backs are not supplying the assists or dictate games?

Almost 3 seasons in a row that Liverpool had their back 3-4 intact, they won everything and attackers were churning out goals but one season the defenders had problem, suddenly the attack became toothless.

Is that coincidence or magic?

When you are playing against a team that sits back, you pass around looking for opening to break through. Naturally you will get a large chunk of possession. The reason why shot on target will look similar is because the defending team won't even allow you shoot towards their goal and any counter attack they push will most definitely result in shit on target for them because all your players are high up the pitch attacking.

Now tell me, where is TAA and Robertson positioned when Liverpool is "passing around" like you put it? Are they behind with the 'keeper because VVD is not around?

Check my reply to airmark and see TAA and Robertson numbers AFTER VVD...

airmark:
Read below, i am tired of typing the same thing for you to understand. Do i need to type in ALL CAPS?

TAA had 2 goals and 7 assists last season in EPL. Only 1 assist came BEFORE VVD injury. After VVD, he registered 2 goals and 6 assists..... How did he get those stats since there is no VVD and he doesn't join attack anymore?

Robertson had 1 goal and 7 assists last season in EPL. Only 1 goal and 2 assists came before VVD injury (infact 1 assist is in the Everton game where VVD got the injury). After VVD, he registered 5 more assists.... How did he get those stats since there is no VVD and he doesn't join attack anymore?

I don't know where you or that person in the screen shot got the theory that Liverpool full backs donw attack because VVD is injured.

TAA still have attacking output in UCL sef that I won't bother to mention.

airmark:
You wanted to use league table after first 5 games of the season to conclude anything? Come on, don't sound like a scummy bro.

If you want to go that route of using that table, Liverpool were 3rd in that week VVD injured, while the eventual champion, City were 11th. You can see how Liverpool did badly by allowing an 11th placed team to overtake and win the trophy.

Find an acceptable point pls, because i don't want to waste my energy explaining how Liverpool conceded most, lost back to back to back and lost most games only in the season in which VVD got injured since he joined them.

Take your L.

And Liverpool continue doing badly to end up where in the table after playing 33 more matches? Their bad performance could have put them in relegation places because VVD is not there.

Ask yourself why Liverpool lost 0-1 on numerous occasions and couldn't at least take one point? Was it VVD that should have scored those goals?

NinjaMetahuman:
VVd is like the catalyst though. Will easily say he is 70% reason Liverpool slumped.

With VVd at the back, Alex and Robertson can go forward to assist attackers. Immediately VVd left, Robertson and Alex had to do more defensive duties which they suck at, Because other centerbacks couldn't fill VVd shoe.

Plus liverpool donot have creative midfielders like kdb or Bernardo silva to assist the attack like Alex and Robertson hence the reason the attackers couldn't get the same numbers they got season before.

This is so wrong.

All the Burnley and Brightons and Evertons that won Liverpool sat back and absorbed their pressure, and hit them on the counter.

You guys should stop with this theory that TAA and Robertson suddenly played in their half after VVD left. Go watch those games where Liverpool lost. Even the West Brom match that Alisson scored, Liverpool was mounting attack after attack after attack until West Brom cracked. Are you saying that the full backs didn't attack?

Liverpool's main problem was attack. At a point, they couldn't score to save their lives. Imagine that Alisson helped them to win West Brom.

Look at the image below and tell me it's only VVD injury that affected Liverpool. Why will you give it 70% to VVD?

airmark:
Without VVD, the wing backs were not as adventurous as before to consistently join attacking third and improve attacking forays.


You don't do this with Matip

Just stop.

VVD left Liverpool in a particular position in the table when he got injured. Can you tell us that position and also tell us which position they ended up at the end of the season.

If VVD absence affected Liverpool that much, it will reflect on the league table.

NinjaMetahuman:
it is true. But it's not just VVd though but the whole defense and keeper.

Liverpool looked like they were gonna defend their title last until the defenders started dropping like flies or coming in or out of injuries.

And we all know defenders contribute a lot to Liverpool's goals.

The season Liverpool won the league, defenders alone contributed to more than 40 or 50% of Liverpool's goals. That also includes VVd.

I think Robertson and Alex alone had more assists than most forward wingers in the league that time.

Their proper doom started immediately VVd left though.

The bolded is why I said its not true. And you just validated my point.

It's not just DVD that had injury. Almost all the defenders went off injured. The attack became blunt. The Liverpool attack we know (Mane, Firmino, Salah) will always outscore the opponents even if they concede plenty goals.

It is wrong to allude Liverpool's slump to just VVD injury.

airmark:
It's true.

Was VVD responsible for Liverpool's blunt attack that couldn't overturn ordinary one goal deficit in numerous matches which they lost by a single goal?

raumdeuter:
Shebi Ronaldo went to prove himself in a league monopolized by Juve so keep up the energy Messi also went to prove himself in France since PSG didnt win last league

Ronaldo started proving himself from EPL

raumdeuter:
Pep was playing in Europe while he won all 3 league titles
Cuntay only won the league when he wasnt laying in Europe

What stops Pep winning Conte in the first season since he is capable of winning multiple trophies in a season?

raumdeuter:
So all the Messi should leave Barcelona to prove himself

Now he has left Barcelona to a PSG that did not win the league last season to prove himself in PSG unlike CR7 who went to prove himself in a club that won 8 straight Serie A titles and they failed to win last season with Ronaldo

Within he last 2 months

Messi wins trophy for Argentina check
Moved out of Barcelona to prove himself check

To prove himself in a farmers league monopolised by PSG?

Put some respect in the name Ronaldo...

League titles in 3 top leagues in Europe check
Top scorer in 3 top leagues in Europe check
WPOTY in 2 top leagues in Europe check
2 International trophies check

There are levels to these stuffs.

BlueAngel444:
you are joking right, Pep narrowly lost his second local league title and his first and third were unchallenged because of other clubs having issues.

Liverpool losing VVD is why they drop from top they were last season. Pep picked up because of Dias, that should tell you a thing or two

This is not true.

raumdeuter:
Pep actually won the league with Cuntay in the league while Pep was also involved in Europe
Cuntay only won the league because he did not have any European engagement, the moment he had to combine league with Europe he fumbled and finished 5th

Then why use Europe to make an excuse for Pep when an EPL rookie topped him and collected the league from him...

MorataFC:
Skysports Reporter: (Messi) "Why do you choose to wear the number 19 jersey at PSG even when Neymar offered you his brand number 10 jersey?"

Messi : "Mason Mount at Chelsea inspired me. That kid reminds me of myself when I was much younger."

Source: MorataFc

Messi will wear number 30 though...

Kilishihunter:
Bro we all are different, while some would keep a strong face and grant their interviews while burning inside, the others can't control their emotions, this is a club that helped you medically and football wise, one in which you've spent all your whole life despite offers at different stages in your career, where you've started your family and where the fans treated you like a god, I too am not against him leaving or him wanting to go last year due to the president but I'm very sure many "strong men" would break down like that

My PoV, Messi tainted his Barca legacy with that interview last year.

Bartomeu may be the ready made reason to defend what he did, but that's another story altogether. I don't believe he will want to risk breaking the heart of millions of his supporters by coming out to say he wants out just to kick a president out of the club. He really wanted to leave.

raumdeuter:
When Cuntay didn't have European engagement. The season he added Europe to it like other top clubs he started struggling to make top 4

Wetin consign Europe with my comment?

Are you saying Pep cannot win a treble or double with Conte in EPL?

patrickmuf:
If you were Messi and seeing how bad Bartomeu had ran the club, you'd want out...I believe Messi's outburst paved the way for his departure...

Do you honestly believe that interview was just a strategy to push Bartomeu out or he really wanted to leave Barcelona?

Kilishihunter:
They're not the same, I'm talking about joy experienced after such grief, Say a miraculous buoyant credit alert or a bumper job promotion, that person would at the very least smile for joy, Barca told him the deal can't be possible again despite him cutting 50% so he shouldn't play again or accept other offers bro? No na

Credit alert can trigger more tears actually. Thinking of what and what he can use this money to buy for his now dead son/daughter can make a parent burst into fresh episode of tears. Make no mistake, nothing can make a parent happy until the mourning phase is over. Nothing.