This is very simple, Jephtha vow to sacrifice a human. He made an oath to sacrifice the first thing that came to greet him. It happened that his daughter was the first thing to greet him. Its not the only time a seemingly innocent oath got someone killed. John the baptist suffered a similar fate when Herodias daughter asked for his head, yet the oath Herod swore was not specifically about John.

The oath could not have been stated as follows:"If I am victorious in battle I will offer my daughter as a sacrifice" This would not have been binding. Instead he said the first thing, it could have been a cow or sheep or anything. He didnt expect that it would be his daughter.

God could have easily made it such that a sheep come and greet him. Instead it was his daugher. This is a lesson for you and for me on the perils of making oaths. This is why they were abolished. Because we cant control the world around us, which is why Jesus says do not swear an oath "And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black"

Any oath that you make, with Good intention or bad is evil in the sight of God. Oaths were abolished for the very reasons I stated previously, ie people who were not part of making any oath suffer and die due to oaths.

Jephthas daughter, John the baptist etc are reasons why oaths were abolished.

Otherwise why were they abolished?

A vow is a vow, once it is made it is binding. That is what Got John the baptist killed as well as Jephthas daughter. Jephtha didnt vow to sacrifice his daughter, he vowed to sacrifice the first thing that came to greet him. In his mind and experience it was always one of his animals who would come to greet him first.But on this occasion it was Gods will that his daughter came to greet him first.

This is a lesson for you and me, that we should not swear oaths etc. We have no control over what happens to us, that is why Jesus says do not swear an oath. Just say yes or no, anything beyond that is evil. When you swear an oath you are implying that you have control over everything, yet you could die the same day without fulfilling it. Does dying release you from your duty?

My brother the condition for belief for an unbeliever is that prophecy in accordance with Corinthians 14 should convince you to believe. Beyond that its a matter of faith or do what Gideon did and put God to the test.

1 Corinthians 14:20- 25

"20 Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. 21 In the Law it is written:

“With other tongues
and through the lips of foreigners
I will speak to this people,
but even then they will not listen to me,
says the Lord.”[e]

22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25 as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”

Japhthah sacrificed his daughter, he made an open vow. He didnt specify, it followed then that his daughter had to be sacrificed.

Mark 6: 17-29

"17 For Herod himself had given orders to have John arrested, and he had him bound and put in prison. He did this because of Herodias, his brother Philip’s wife, whom he had married. 18 For John had been saying to Herod, “It is not lawful for you to have your brother’s wife.” 19 So Herodias nursed a grudge against John and wanted to kill him. But she was not able to, 20 because Herod feared John and protected him, knowing him to be a righteous and holy man. When Herod heard John, he was greatly puzzled[c]; yet he liked to listen to him.

21 Finally the opportune time came. On his birthday Herod gave a banquet for his high officials and military commanders and the leading men of Galilee. 22 When the daughter of[d] Herodias came in and danced, she pleased Herod and his dinner guests.

The king said to the girl, “Ask me for anything you want, and I’ll give it to you.” 23 And he promised her with an oath, “Whatever you ask I will give you, up to half my kingdom.”

24 She went out and said to her mother, “What shall I ask for?”

“The head of John the Baptist,” she answered.

25 At once the girl hurried in to the king with the request: “I want you to give me right now the head of John the Baptist on a platter.”

26 The king was greatly distressed, but because of his oaths and his dinner guests, he did not want to refuse her. 27 So he immediately sent an executioner with orders to bring John’s head. The man went, beheaded John in the prison, 28 and brought back his head on a platter. He presented it to the girl, and she gave it to her mother. 29 On hearing of this, John’s disciples came and took his body and laid it in a tomb."

The problem was that Herod said the following “Ask me for anything you want, and I’ll give it to you.” he swore an oath and as such was bound by it. An oath must be fulfilled according to the law. Its an oath that killed Japhthas daughter, its also an oath that killed John the baptist.

Oaths were so onerous and deadly that Jesus abolished them under the new covenant.

Matthew 5 :33-37

"33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37 All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one."

It is now a sin to make an oath Good or Bad, as you have no control of whether or not you can fulfill it. Just say YES or NO. If you make an oath under the New Covenant its a sin, But you will also be bound buy it.

Oaths werent abolished just because a girl couldnt marry. It because many people died because of oaths, some of which were not even made by the people who died. As a man I could bind my wife and kids under oath without them even knowing.

Paul discusses this very matter in Romans 9:6-23.

Some people are destined for destruction, we just dont know who.

We just have to try our best that it not be you, live accordingly etc. Then you may receive mercy.

But we cannot force the matter, its Gods choice.

We all buy clothes, shoes, a house, car etc. When we buy these things, we do so because we like them. But I can say with confidence that at some point or other we have had a change of heart and thrown away something which we previously liked but over time decided we didnt like it that much anymore. There are also somethings that we keep no matter how old and tattered because we like them.

Nobody calls you evil for discarding something you dont like anymore, no debate follows. Just like we own clothes etc and do as we wish with them, we are Gods property. God can do as he pleases.

I can imagine if my clothes started having opinions about me, negative ones at that. I wouldnt like those clothes so much.... We should choose our words and thoughts carefully with regards to God when discussing this topic.

"God’s Sovereign Choice

6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[b] 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”[c]

10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—"

The practical solution is to marry her. Then you will be able to live a Holy life. Marriage doesnt need to be expensive etc. And as you have said, you are in your mid twenties. Thats what I would do if I was in your situation. (Well thats exactly what I did.)

Peace

Mark 16:15-16 "15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

You must first step is to believe and then be baptized and you will be saved.

According to some people you can go on living your life as you please after that and sin more than ever before.

Matthew 28:19-20 "19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”"

Then there is what Jesus says that you should be taught his commands after baptism. (Some people believe that you dont have to keep his commands because of grace but you can decide for yourself.)

I can give you a list of some of the commands if you like.

Peace

Lol,

johnwell: Brother,
if you are asked to live that house, and the prophecy has been confirmed from different prophets and pastors in different church at different time, what confirmation do you need again? please relocate.

your house is still your house, rent it out and use the money to pay for your rent, please... pray to God, the bible says... "show me a sign for good", let God proof any how He likes, but it will be thro a minister. it is an insult for you to tell God to proof the prophecy with a buyer. ignore most of the comments up there, they are too carnal. Delay can be dangerous.

If you read Judges 6:15-17 & 36-40

"15 “Pardon me, my lord,” Gideon replied, “but how can I save Israel? My clan is the weakest in Manasseh, and I am the least in my family.”

16 The Lord answered, “I will be with you, and you will strike down all the Midianites, leaving none alive.”

17 Gideon replied, “If now I have found favor in your eyes, give me a sign that it is really you talking to me."

"36 Gideon said to God, “If you will save Israel by my hand as you have promised— 37 look, I will place a wool fleece on the threshing floor. If there is dew only on the fleece and all the ground is dry, then I will know that you will save Israel by my hand, as you said.” 38 And that is what happened. Gideon rose early the next day; he squeezed the fleece and wrung out the dew—a bowlful of water.

39 Then Gideon said to God, “Do not be angry with me. Let me make just one more request. Allow me one more test with the fleece, but this time make the fleece dry and let the ground be covered with dew.” 40 That night God did so. Only the fleece was dry; all the ground was covered with dew."

Gideon wanted to be sure God was talking to him, not some other Spirit. So Gideon asked for a signand was given 1. This was not an insult to God, why then would this brother asking for a sign be an insult?

alpha conde: Its was the prophesy that macbeth heard that brought him to a fall.... Shakespare

U have made a mistake listening to the prophesy in the 1st place, now its structuring ur thinking.

Personally I would never believe a prophesy, why not ask dem to pray and destroy every negative Force in your house?

I think the prophesy is a deduction from ur wifes complaints.

Learn to seek God s face on ur own and visit less pastors, they r ruining pples lives with prophesies.

I also think it is possible that the wifes complaints are leading to these prophecies.

Conclusion: The reason I suggested that they pray for a sign is to give our brother room to escape this situation without causing conflict with his wife. It would also give our brother peace of mind. This might also help his wife be able to see that some prophecies are fake (If that is the case) or real and lead her to evaluate these things more critically in future. This will also give our brother some power in terms of religious matters in future or matters of prophecy in future. These ministers (Men in positions of respect and thought leadership) have too much power and influence over your wife, you need to regain some of those in a way that will gain your wifes respect.

I dont think its a good idea to just ignore your wife, because something bad might happen (Something that was going to happen anyway no matter where you live) and your wife will blame you.

Good luck

Hi brother,

I feel your pain, you have a difficult situation. If you dont move there will be tension in your marriage. If anything goes wrong then your wife will blame you for not moving. This is a recipe for disaster.

What should you do? I think you should ask God for a sign to move, do this prayer with your wife and be very specific. Give yourself a time frame of 1 week.

If for example you say "God, if we are really meant to move from this place then let a buyer come forward and ask to purchase our house after your 1 week of dedicated prayers concerning this issue."

This is what people have done in the bible when they have been uncertain about things. Genesis 24 (He didnt know which girl and left it up to God) and Judges 6 Gideon also seeks a sign from God to know what action he should take.

If you do this with your wife and nobody comes to buy your place within after the 7th day then you know you should stay.

She wont be able to get out of this because if she has prayed to God and actually does believe then she should be satisfied that its ok to stay.

If someone does come to buy your place then, you will know that you really should move.

The buyer thing was just an example, you can ask for a sign that is specific to you. But it must be specific and not vague and have a timeline for you to be able to know if you received a sign or not. It cant be open ended. Eg you could ask for your sign to be that you dream that you are moving etc.

When you pray ask using John 14:14 and you should get an answer. (I would suggest this prayer also include a fast on some of the days)

Hope this helps.

Pastor Olu T:

Reading this post makes me wonder, "water baptism is of the old covenant and a ritual".

Water baptism is not even an old testament practice, I challenge you to quote one place from the old testament where water baptism was done?

Water baptism has little to do with repentance though, it is an open declaration of our faith to the cloud of witnesses both spiritual and physical, and also whereby we become part of the body of Christ physically and spiritually too. Not that we are not part of the body at salvation, we were, but it is done openly as we declare our faith to all.

Baptism is more than a mere ritual and important, and every xtian should endeavor to be 'cos the local church is God' delegated authority and He recognizes whatever is being done, according to His word though.

Why should a xtian not be baptized, except you don't have the opportunity? Going through the NT, it is very important and in fact Jesus commanded it Matthew 28:18-20. And just as Emusan said said in the op.

Pastor Olu T:

Its a known fact that the new covenant only took effect when Jesus died, but when we come to baptism it is a continuous thing after John.

I would not want to quote long scriptures, reason for I am using my phone and it will be a little difficult, but I just want u to explain how u understood Matthew 28:18-20. And as u at it explain also why the apostles baptized all the early xtian.

Pls avoid those ur analogies, it does not fit in at all.

Pastor you are goood at avoiding the truth.

You said "Water baptism is not even an old testament practice, I challenge you to quote one place from the old testament where water baptism was done?"


My Post in response to this Showed that water baptism is an Old Covenant practice. In fact my initial post showed this. You issued a challenge for me to show you how Water baptism is an Old Covenant practice. I quoted scripture proving this. But you cant provide scriptures, only excuses. The reason why you issued your challenge is because you didnt understand the workings of the Old and New Covenant, you have made no reference to the challenge you issued in your reply?

You have have just stated verbatim that "Its a known fact that the new covenant only took effect when Jesus died, but when we come to baptism it is a continuous thing after John."

If you knew this fact before my reply, you wouldnt have issued your challenge.

You are very ambiguous when you say baptism is continuous after John. Holy Spirit baptism only started after John had already died, so how is anything continuing? Water baptism didnt continue after John as it had fulfilled its purpose. I have not disagreed with Holy Spirit baptism in the New Covenant. So what exactly is your point?

Again Pastor if you read my very first post you will see how I understand Matthew 28 and why the apostles baptized early Christians. (Basically an instruction to baptize is given and its purpose was to enter into the New Covenant. Just like circumcision was how Jews entered into the Old Covenant)

With regard to my analogies, its just your opinion. (judging buy you failure to grasp certain things, I think you would benefit from them. In fact if you read Hebrews 9 which was in my response to you, Paul uses an analogy. In fact the bible is filled with them, they teach people to think practically.)

Hi, we should not call a pastor papa or father etc.

Matthew 23:9-12 " 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted."

Being the greatest among a congregation means that you should be careful what people address you ass so as not to find yourself competing with God.

I think your feelings are quite justified in terms of scripture where it is strictly forbidden to call someone papa or father etc.

Hope this helps

Pastor Olu T:

Reading this post makes me wonder, "water baptism is of the old covenant and a ritual".

Water baptism is not even an old testament practice, I challenge you to quote one place from the old testament where water baptism was done?

Water baptism has little to do with repentance though, it is an open declaration of our faith to the cloud of witnesses both spiritual and physical, and also whereby we become part of the body of Christ physically and spiritually too. Not that we are not part of the body at salvation, we were, but it is done openly as we declare our faith to all.

Baptism is more than a mere ritual and important, and every xtian should endeavor to be 'cos the local church is God' delegated authority and He recognizes whatever is being done, according to His word though.

Why should a xtian not be baptized, except you don't have the opportunity? Going through the NT, it is very important and in fact Jesus commanded it Matthew 28:18-20. And just as Emusan said said in the op.

Hi Pastor,

If you had read my first post then you would understand that water baptism is part of the OLD Covenant John died before Jesus. It was John who himself baptized.

The New Covenant only came into effect after the death of Jesus Hebrews 9:15-18 "15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. "

The New Covenant didnt not take effect until Christ had died. So all that happened from the time Jesus was born upto the point that he died was the Old Covenant. John the Baptists ministry happened before Jesus died and as such was part of the Old Covenant, so was his baptism.

Jesus' name only became effective after his death not before. If you read Matthew 27 you will see many miraculous signs happened immediately after Jesus Death, when the New Covenant took Effect.

Now the only way to Enter into this new Covenant is via baptism by the Holy Spirit. Not with water.

Even though Testament means Covenant, it doesnt mean all the things that happened in the New Testament are part of the New Covenant. The New Covenant is a very specific thing, while the naming of the books of the bible from Matthew to Revelations is just that, naming.

Yes, its called the New Testament but dont use the name as an excuse to misunderstand scripture.

Emusan:


Please don't get me wrong here.

What John the baptist actually preached was repentance which he sealed with immersion of water. Change of mind does the work not actually the water! Some churches believe during water baptism they welcome the participant into their midst (whereby change of name(s) can come in). Even water baptism is not just enough that's why Apostle Paul said John only baptize in repentance that Jesus is the one who will complete the task by Holyghost baptism. Acts 19:2-6

Shalom!

Yes John preached repentance, the Israelites had broken the Covenant with God. So they had to repent from that particular sin and Gods chosen method was through John and water baptism (Basically they were ceremonially unclean or defiled).

My main point is that what signifies repentance to people is arbitrary as you pointed out "Some churches believe during water baptism they welcome the participant into their midst (whereby change of name(s) can come in)."

This is based on what this church thinks or what that church thinks etc. Specifically with my example with circumcision, is it right or wrong for someone to get circumcised when they become christian (Circumcision as a matter of salvation)

Scripture tells you that circumcision is not necessary for salvation.

So i ask you is it right to preach any form of circumcision for salvation?

If you answer no, then it follows that the same logic applied to water baptism tells you it is also wrong to preach water baptism as necessary for salvation.

If water baptism isnt needed for salvation then what is its use? You can at least make a medical case for the use of circumcision, but none for water baptism.

Water baptism under the New Covenant is a man made invention, and has become a tradition of men passed from generation to generation.

This is a form of hypocrisy as we are unable to keep Gods commands follow human traditions.

Mark 7:1-8 " The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus 2 and saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed. 3 (The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders. 4 When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.)

5 So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?”

6 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’

8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”"

Let us not worship God in vain, there are many things which we fail dismally to observe yet keep to many traditions/inventions which are meaningless to God. (I could give a list but that would be off topic)

A simple analogy is registering for an Engineering degree with ten courses. During the semester you decide to spend your time studying Psychology which you are not registered for or eligible for. Then you neglect 2 of your Engineering courses in this process and then fail. Come graduation time you say I failed 2 but hey I studied Psychology. Then you are told Psychology is not a requirement for you degree? Then you dont graduate, who do you blame?

Its the same thing in the work environment, if your employer asks you to do a, b, c, d, e and you do a, b, c, d, f and you really do f well, I mean better than anyone has ever done it before and then your get fired for under performance as a result who do you blame? It doesnt matter if you do f if it is not a requirement.

Why people think God should use a different logic to this? When all evidence suggests that God does in fact apply this logic, that being, rewarding those who do as they are told and punishing those who go after their own inventions.

I doubt very much that any church that has the Holy Spirit would baptize people in water. The Spirit itself would refuse for people to be baptized in water as water baptism was a shadow of things to come. When the Spirit of God had come, what use is it then? Just as animal sacrifices were a shadow of things to come, who dare make animal sacrifice now as a sin offering when Jesus has already been offered once and for all? Who dares Go into water when the Holy Spirit is here?

I understand your point of what it signifies.


How about I equate circumcision to water baptism. IE That is my form of repentance is that I must get circumcised. (I will be told it for the Old Covenant)
Or how about killing a goat for example. Or maybe I shave my head etc burn my old clothes etc. Or any other ritual. Water baptism is also a ritual.

Is any of these rituals above acceptable to God? (I wont say either way).

More importantly were any of these rituals commanded by God under the New Covenant? (I will have to say NO!!)

Conclusion: I think we cant just make things up because of what we think they symbolize or because of what they symbolize to us. What is important is to keep Gods word. Water baptism is akin to idolatry these days as people , it is leading people astray. People believe they will not be saved if they are not baptized with water which is incorrect. Water baptism had its use but it then expired, just like the bronze snake in the desert, it had its use, then it expired. Then the Israelites were led astray because they later worshiped the bronze snake. We are now adding to the bible when we make water baptism a requirement for everyone or Doctrine.

If I started a church and said killing a goat means repentance I would be heavily criticized and told it is not according to the bible (In fact It would be called a cult and Pagan etc). Well neither is being baptized with water in the New Covenant.

Nice post. I agree with you to some extent. Let us examine some verses starting with water baptism and then moving on to spirit baptism.

John the Baptist had disciples Luke 11.1 "One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.”"

John baptized up until he was put in prison John 3:23-24 "23 Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were coming and being baptized. 24 (This was before John was put in prison.)"

1. John only baptized Jews or people descended from the tribe of Israel.

2. John only baptized men, woman were never baptized by John.

3. It was John who baptized and not his disciples (Even though he had disciples)

4. After John was put in prison all water baptism stopped.

5. John did not leave his baptism to his disciples.

6. Johns baptism did not involve Jesus's name, it was just water but no name.

In light of the above six points how is water baptism relevant to you.

Spirit baptism is supported by the following. Acts 1.5 "5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”" Jesus puts Johns Baptism in the past tense and says once the Holy Spirit has been sent by God baptism will be by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus himself did not baptize but his disciples did, John 4:1-2 " Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— 2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples."

Matthew 28:19 "19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"

Jesus commands his disciples to baptize, he leaves his baptism to them.

1. Jesus didnt baptize people instead he sent his disciples.

2. Jesus says Johns baptism is passed and the Holy Spirit baptism is coming (John also says in John 3 that he must become smaller and Jesus Greater, ie Jesus baptism must surpass his.)

3. Jesus instructs his disciples to baptize after his death.


Nicodemus

What Jesus said to Nicodemus was true, that a person must be born by water and by spirit. But this was only true for Jews or Israelites. As John was sent to ready the way for Jesus, ie prepare the Jews for his coming. If you read about the purpose of Johns birth Luke 1 etc. So for Jews it was necessary that they be baptized by John and repent because they had broken their Covenant with God (Old Covenant, which the Gentiles were not party to).

Those Jews who refused Johns baptism by choice you will find are the very Jews who refused Jesus. If they had accepted John they would have accepted Jesus.

All this water baptism happened under the Old Covenant as Jesus was still alive and as such the New Covenant was yet to take effect. John died before Jesus and as such did not baptize anyone under the New Covenant.

Conclusion: How then does any person baptize another with water under the New Covenant given the above? Aside from John no one was given power to baptize with water. Who claims to have been given this power today? And if they do, what is written about them in the Prophets?

It depends, God said John 14:14 if we ask anything in his name he will grant us.

This can be both good and bad.

God didnt specify, but whoever remains loyal to God is the one whos prayer is answered.

Even when Satan asks to temp us, or asks for our souls he uses the same John 14:14 and as such God must grant what Satan asks for because God is bound by John 14:14.

Sometimes God answer the lion, and sometimes the sheep. But whoever is Holy and faithfull to God in this lifetime will be the one to win eternal life...

In other words it doesnt really matter (In the greater scheme of things) who God answers in this life time. What is important is what happens after this life, and as such we should direct our prayers accordingly with that in mind.

Thats my opinion.

Hi @ Frosbel

Sin began from the time of Adam, all those people are either in Paradise or Hades awaiting final judgement.

This doesnt mean that the people who were wicked and lived before the time of Christ will be automatically forgiven.

Those people who were lawlessness will be judged by it (ie societal norms, natural law etc at whichever particular period). Those people who lived by law in the first generation (Prior to the Flood in Noahs time) will be judged by that law.

Just to provide clarity, Gods Law didnt start with Moses. God had decreed laws before then.

Matthew 27:51-53 "51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people."

Many people who died before the time of Jesus who were Holy rose from their tombs when Jesus died. (Emphasis on HOLY). What happened to the wicked?

1 Peter 3:19&20 "19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built."

So all people have to hear the Gospel of Christ and believe and repent of their sins. Not all people who lived before the time Jesus were saved, only those that repented and whose souls were baptised in the Spirit. (The soul is baptised, not the flesh). Baptism being the mark of the Mark or Seal of the New Covenant. Your physical body will have not a mark (Old Covenant marked the body via circumcision) but your soul will have a mark (Your soul or if you prefer the second you Paul talks about in 1 Corinthians 15). After all is it not the soul that needs the mark or seal of the New Covenant to enter Paradise?

Jesus talks about divorce. That under the law of Moses (The Old Covenant) man was allowed to divorce his wife due to the hardness of mens hearts. This was not Gods initial intention though it was permissible under the law of Moses but then Jesus abolished Divorce because it was unjust.

It is also Gods intention that man should be with 1 wife as per Matt 19 just as it was in the beginning.

Jesus being the sacrifice for the New Covenant was given power to; and has set certain terms and abolished certain things which were permissible under the Old Covenant.

There is a list of things that has been abolished from the Old to New Covenant.

If this is a serious matter then you will eventually need to fast.

You might want to get some burlap/sack cloth.

You can fast and ask God to give you victory over your enemies.

Ask God to protect you and conquer all the arrows and spears and tricks that your enemies are using against you.

Use Psalm 35 to pray.

Use Micah 7:7-10 to pray.

Use John 14:14 also.

The reason why Im telling you this is because I genuinely feel bad for you. I went through a similar experience and had no clue what was happening to me. As a result I almost failed in university, then I struggled in the work place.
Whenever something could go wrong it did, any luck was not to be found anywhere.

And another thing, keep this information away from your family memebers as your enemies are usually from you extended family and sometimes your own siblings due to jealousy. Also dont tell your friends as they also tend to be your enemy more often than not. Also dont tell your work colleagues as they too are sometimes your enemy.

You will find that when someone is doing something, they always enquire how you are. People usually assume that means this person is concerned about me when in actual fact they just want to know if whatever they are doing is working and what steps your are taking to get help. Then they take the very info you gave them and use it against you.

Telling someone you trust is also a problem as they too can tell the next person not knowing they are your enemy.

So I would advise you to keep things private. NB when you are going to do important things dont let people know in advance.

If you have an interview, are up for promotion, are going to get money, are going to study, start a business, get married, extend your house, build a house, wife is pregnant etc keep it to yourself for as long as possible.

When your enemy knows whats going to happen then they use certain measures to try and prevent you from doing whatever it is that you have planned.

There is a place called hades where people who will die a second death are waiting for final judgement. Paradise is where people who will awake to eternal life are waiting for the final judgement.

When Gods plan has been fulfilled then death, hades (and its contents), satan etc will all be thrown in a lake of fire.

So currently these people are seperated by a divide but are in the same place, you could imagine it as to towns in the same city but everybody must remain in their own town. Luke 16:19

There will also be a new heaven and a new earth etc....

Hi Binhozie,

I have had similar dreams. You cant run, you cant wake up.

If you think about it and try to remember you probably have also had dreams of eating your favorite foods.

Maybe also regular dreams of sleeping with the opposite sex.

You may dream of dogs chasing you, someone shooting at you, trying to stab you etc.

You may also find that since these dreams you have been having more bad luck than usual (People dislike you, treat you poorly at work etc).

Have been having money issues or strained relationships.

In my native language this is usually the result of uTikoloshe or isiLwane (Juju involving spirits).

These spirits force feed you in your sleep (Idliso) and get more powerful each time you eat in your sleep.

They can eventually kill you (If that is the intention of the person who sent it). You are more prone to being mugged, car accident, lightning strike etc.

There are ways in which to remedy this, if you live near the ocean you must collect water in a container.

Then you must wash in the ocean (More like take a dip) then leave without looking back.

Then you must drink this sea water a few days (say 3 days, 1\4 cup 3 times a day) then on a day when you are not going to leave home you must wake up early and before eating drink 2 cups of the sea water and ready 10 litres of luke warm water (Fresh water).

Then drink the fresh water until your stomach is full. This should induce vomiting automatically. (This should be done outside)

If vomiting doesnt happen then you must induce it buy putting a finger into the back of your throat. keep drinking the fresh water a vomiting until it is finished.

Repeat this once a month or so.

If you live far from the ocean then go to a river or stream, (A source of clean running water, natural spring).

Do exaclty as I said for the ocean water above EXCEPT that you shoud first boil the river water to kill off any germs and bacteria etc that may cause sickness. Then you may buy sea salt and add it to the river water.

This dream might go away for a while, but if the person who is sending it does not stop then you will have to continue doing this if it helps.

Now you can also take the sea water or river water and sprinkle it where you live both inside and outside.

You have to keep your activities very discreet as if the person who is sending this thing to you should not find out.

If they do, then they might add sea water, sea salt or river water to the Juju they are using. (Then the seawater wont be of any help you after that, unless further steps are taken on your part but that is wont discuss here)

Then you need to pray that God protects you, ask using John 14:14. Then you must pray consistently.

Maybe you will have improvement.

Then you also need to pray to God to reveal your enemy to you, it could be via a dream or you could ask God for your enemy to say a specific thing or ask a specific question that is known between you and God as what you will use to identify them. Read Genesis 24 for further understanding on this.

It is sometimes vitally important to know who your enemy is so you can take evasive action. So that you can be on your guard.

If you have any questions etc feel free to ask...

Bidam: The church is not missing anything..address those scriptures i quoted abeg..atleast i answered your questions..you owe me that or i won't respond anymore to your posts.

@Bidam: I think we have a common problem. @shdemidemi refuses to answer questions or respond to the comments that have been made. You go into a deep analysis with scripture and all you get is them running away.

I will respond to his response and instead of admitting where he is wrong he will just go on pretending as if nobody noticed.

shdemidemi: All I would say to you is that the body we carry is a carrier of sin. As long as man remains in this body, he would always be associated with sin. Sin as always been part of man since he fell, the law came to reveal sin to us. Man can fight within himself to be righteous before God but sin will always win such battle because sin ruled over us. In fact the more you give laws, the more you find law breakers, some will be caught and punished but many will transgress against laws when and where no one can see them.

(This contradicts your previous posts where you said sin doesnt exist in the dictionary of a believer etc Admit you were misinformed about sin!!! Dont just pretend we havent noticed that you are now changing your Gospel.)

An example was the woman that was to be stoned for adultery, Christ told all the people trying to kill the woman according to the law to cast their stones if they have no sin. None of the people could because everyone do their secret things under lock and key.

They Jewish people were a chosen people, God gave them a way for their souls to be saved through yearly atonement. Therefore, all sin could do to them was kill their body if they were caught. An average gentile is condemned because he does not have the oracle of God like the Jews had.


Hebrews 9:6-10 "6 When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. 7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order"

The yearly ceremony was just that, ceremonial cleansing and a reminder to refrain from sin. The Israelites were however not forgiven their sins under the Old Covenant. This was temporary in nature and would be abolished at the time when the New Covenant would take effect.

Hebrews 9:11-24 "11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,[a] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining[b] eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!"

15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

The sins committed under the First or Old Covenant were actually forgiven under the New Covenant of Christs blood as the blood of animals was not a worth sacrifice for sin before God. So how were the Jews saved through early atonement as atonement was done through the Blood of Christ at the appointed time for all people since Adam?

Matthew 27:50-53 "50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[e] went into the holy city and appeared to many people."

The bodies of Holy people were raised to life NB NOT ALL people but those that were Holy the moment after Jesus died. These people lived and died through the Old Covenant but were brought to life through the New Covenant. All peoples were forgiven at that moment including the Gentiles that had died previously. Those people are now all awaiting final judgement.

I will repeat myself again, God does not show favouritism. God judges fairly, not the way you are suggesting.

Christ came died for the soul of gentiles and Jews alike. The law of Moses that condemns is now a thing of the past, cos Christ came with is own condition. Christ's condition for us is BELIEF.


[quote author=timothycel]
We are all aware of a day of judgement. If we are not under any law how could we have sinned? Why then is there a need for judgement?
quote]@timothycel

A sinner in this age according to the gospel is not the guy that lies. A sinner is whoever does not believe the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. We are all sinners, no man, not one is righteous even when you repent. The only man that is righteous is the man that believe in the good news. If God judge man by the law, you and I will never make heaven cos the bible says in Romans 2:16 -
This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets [/b]through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares

This means even things we think or imagine would be for or against us on that day. But, under this gospel of grace the bible says where sin abounds, grace abounds much more.


Revelatioins 21:7-8 "7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 [b]But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

This means liars (People who Lie) will go to a fiery lake filled with sulfur and die a second time. (Along with people who do the other things.)

To summarise, you state things verbatim seemingly without much thought or analysis or scripture to support your "opinions".

1. You have failed to backup your doctrine of a "No sin" world.
2. You made a false claim about Jews receiving early salvation.
3. You made another false claim that a lie is in not a sin according to "this" Gospel when it stated explicitly that liars (people who tell lies will go to hell). If my statement is false then it implies that lairs go to hell because they lie, not because lying is a sin. You say there is only 1 sin, not believing. So if I believe but happen to be a serial killer and rapist and whatever else you can imagine then all is still fine. Just as long my thoughts are fine, just as long as i think what I did was fine then im free to do anything.

This method of judgement would only benefit a psychopath. So according to your logic, Jesus died to give sinners a free pass? So that we can have a buffet of sin guilt free? LOL.

How then does sinning freely lead to righteosness?

4. You gave a vague story about being judged according to our thoughts which i address along with point 3.

Revelations 22:14-15 "14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood"

Matthew 7:21-23 "21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 [b]Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers[/b]!’

Who are the evildoers? Those who believe in Jesus? But these are the very Believers Jesus is talking about.

What is this evil that they did, because they believed and that alone should be fine according to you?

James 1:19-27 "19 My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, 20 because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. 21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.

22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.

26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."

shdemidemi:

There is nothing like a sin in the dictionary of a believer of the gospel of Christ. Every believer is a work in progress, you learn from you mistakes while in a relationship with God. You can never know what God is doing at any point in time. We would not be saved if there was no Judas to betray Christ.

shdemidemi: good.. the bible then says '2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.'. The bible says you are dead to the law that condemns you to sin, it is impossible for me to be in Christ and be a sinner at the same time. I am now moved by the will of God through His Spirit by the word of God.

shdemidemi I dont think you have provided an honest response to my post. The above 2 points are in Direct contradiction to 1 John 1 & Jacob 5 as I pointed out in my previous post. You have not explained this glaring contradiction or perhaps retracted your previous statements.

We know that to sin is to break the law. Even the world that we live in to sin or to commit a crime means you have broken the law. There can be no criminals without the law being in effect. Also people cannot be prosecuted/judged without the law because in the absence of the law no crime could have been committed to begin with.

We are all aware of a day of judgement. If we are not under any law how could we have sinned? Why then is there a need for judgement?

Even in our world today you cant be brought to judgement on anything if there is not law to govern. That would be an injustice.

We are told that definitely we are sinners (1 John 1:8-10 & Jacob 5:16), that should tell you and me we are under the law.

For those that follow biblical law, that is what they will be judged against.

For those that follow no law, they will be judged according to what is written in their hearts. (Their conscience)

But you will find that not even the Gentiles were allowed to be lawless and completely ignorant, Acts 17:30-31 "30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”"

Acts 15:19-21 "19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”"

The Gentiles were initially given 4 Laws as not to burden them. They will be held accountable for breaking these laws, even though they are under grace.

To understand why Paul says the Gentiles are not under the law you must read Acts 15, Jews were telling Gentiles that they had to keep the full law of Moses and be circumcised. This was not initially the case as that would have been too much of a burden for new comers to the faith.

Also the Jews were no longer under the Law either but under grace Peter says below. But the Jews we still required to keep the Law to the letter. That is why they wrongly assumed that the Gentiles would have to keep the full Law.

However as I pointed out in a previous post the Israelites were given the Law over decades and were born into it and were taught every Sabbath. The Gentiles were previously Pagan and had no experience with the Law and its heavy burden. They were given 4 Laws to begin with to ease them into things. They were given further instruction subsequently.

Acts 5:5-11 "5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”"

shdemidemi: @timothycel

There is a thin line between grace and the law. If you go by what you are inferring, you would contradict yourself when you keep on reading the book of Romans thus it will become confusing. I am not totally in support with what the other brethren is saying but at the same time the bible says the believer has two natures constantly warring against each other
1 the old sin nature of sin
2 the new nature of righteousness

Therefore, it is very possible for a believer to fall into what we call sin [b][/b]cos the body is naturally comfortable with the sin nature cos it is the carrier of the nature. A believer needs a relationship with God to feed the new nature which gradually outweighs the old nature by constant hearing and studying of the word of faith.

My question to you is- On the day of Passover when the children of Israel were told to cover their houses with the blood of the lamb for the spirit of death to elude them
1)If Pharaoh's family were to cover their house with the blood of the lamb, would the spirit of death still kill them?

What is so confusing about the book of Romans? You havent explained much.

I find it strange that you are now explaining (In the bold sentence) sin when you said it does not exist. You did a 360 without much explanation.

To answer a very distracting question (Perhaps that the point behind the question; a diversion). If I were an Israelite and didnt obey the command and mark my house with the blood of the lamb then the first born male would have been smote. (It is likely that many Israelites did not listen and fell under the wrath of God; there are always people who dont listen.

Had the Egyptians kept the command then the Angel of death wouldnt have visited them. God does not show favouritism. To illistrate this, if it were purely based on ethnicity then all of the Israelites would have been safe from the angel of death without the requirement to mark their door with the lambs blood. It was a matter of being given a command and those who obey being saved from Gods wrath. You see grace is sometimes tied to the law. God could have just smote everyone, but the Israelites received grace by being given a command to follow.

Just it was then, it is still now. Gods commands are there to protect us and not burden us in the long run. An understanding of this leads to righteousness, keeping Gods commands. Not because were are forced but because were understand the purpose of the law is to protect us and not to punish us. That we should seek to keep the commands out of love and faith not fear.

Strangely enough those that dont fear God never make this connection. That is why it is said that the beginning of all knowledge is the fear of God. But under Grace we do not fear the Law.

If you see my previous post "Acts 10:34-35 "34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right."

God has since the beginning looked with favour with people who obey his law and not looked at other factors. Even the chosen people were punished when they broke the law."

LOL, Jesus died so we could sin freely?

Romans 6:1-2 "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! [/b]We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?"

Romans 6:11-14 "11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 [b]Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace."

Romans 3:31 "31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law."

Matthew 5:17-20 "17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

1 John 1:8-10 "8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

Jacob 5:16 "16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective."

I think the verses above explain themselves with regard to sin.

I am shocked by some of the doctrines i have read here. All the people who were holy observed the law. No-one Jew or Gentile was ever praised for living a lawless life. If you read Acts 10 you will see that it was Holy living that led Corneluis to have favor with God.

Acts 10:1-2 "At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. 2 He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly."

Acts 10:34-35 "34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right."

God has since the beginning looked with favour with people who obey his law and not looked at other factors. Even the chosen people were punished when they broke the law.

Romans 2:6-16 "6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."

At the end, all will be judged, those living under the law will be judged according to the law. Those living outside the law will be judged outside the law according to their conscience.

I think we should be more honest and stop being selective in how we apply scripture in order to accommodate our worldly desires and lifestyles.

I sometimes feel it is pointless to post on forums as people sometimes just post to troll. I have taken my time to write this for the benefit of anyone who finds this useful.

shdemidemi: Bro you really need to hear me out, you are getting the whole jew and gentile thing wrong. Anyone that is a descendant of Jacob is and will remain a Jew in the flesh. Abraham got the promise from God, the promise was for his off spring scattered or together. Every letter in the new testament has an audience, it is either for the descendant of Abraham(God's earthly people) or the church (God's mythical body).

I agree that being a Jew (what they eventually called themselves after the ten tribes fell under the control of Jeroboam son of Nebat. The tribe of Judah remained under the control of the Kings was the biggest and became most dominant, Levi also.) or more correctly an Israelite is a matter of birth.

Gentile by definition means a person who is not born of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob who is Israel and then eventually one of the 12 tribes of Israel.

The scattered people include the Samaritans who were Jewish by birth but had been following idolatry since the time of Jeroboam son of Nebat. Samaritans were actually Jews but were defiled by Jerobaom and idolatry. That is why Peter goes to Samaria to baptise them (Acts so that can be purified by the Holy Spirit.

If you take note in Galatians 2:11-15 "11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles "

There is a clear distinction between Jew and Gentiles the Jews being the Circumcision group.

I think JesusisLord85 is more in danger of misunderstanding Pauls words than shdemidemi.

Beretta92: Interesting! Why does it happen mostly during rainy season and hv u personally observed it happening in dry season?

It happens more during rainy season because its similar to fishing. You are most likely to catch a fish during "Fish" season (that may be mating season, summer, winter etc depending on where you are) than you are to catch one out of season.

When it is rainy season, the elements are all there. Severe thunderstorms and electrical storms. The lightning is already there, it is then a matter of directing where it should go.

In my country you will find that in the rural areas people will consult their witch doctor at the beginning of spring so that they can get protection from the lightning Juju before the summer electrical storms.

We often find that the first electrical storm of the season kills many people and then people remember to get protection from Jujus.

This Juju can also be used out of season (Dry Season) but a more powerful Juju is needed as a storm cloud needs to be created. This can happen very suddenly (15 minutes or so) then you here someone was killed by lightning but very little rain fell and the storm is over in 5 minutes. (To answer your question I cant say I have witnessed someone being struck with my own eyes)

I personally have had dreams of an uncle of mine trying to send lightning to my family. (He is involved in the practice of killing family members and using them to make money). He owns many taxis and shops. He had 11 siblings but he is now the only Older family member alive. His uncle got him into this "business", he has always had about 10 wives and without fail 1 dies each year or one of his many children and then he gets a new wife etc.

There are many Jujus that work just the same as the lightning one. They mainly work buy increasing your bad luck exponentially. You are more likely to die of car accident, stroke, stabbing, during childbirth, fire etc. A juju works on opportunity, when there is a chance for something to go wrong a Juju increases the likelihood that it will.

If you watch the movie Final Destination and notice how something is always trying to kill the characters given an opportunity, its the same way a Juju works.

Witchcraft is widespread across the Asian sub continent, the Far East, the Middle East, South America. It just cant be proven, just like how God cant be proven. But those people who have experienced the ill effects of witchcraft can tell you all about it. It is the same with God, people have had experiences which confirmed their beliefs.

Witchcraft can never be proven though, there will always be a "scientific" explanation.

If you read Acts 15 you will see that the Peter along with the other Apostles and elders accepted Paul and the Gospel he preached to the Gentiles.

2 Peter 3:15-18 " 15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen."

Peter was also fully aware of Pauls teaching and knew people found them hard to understand. Peoples inability to understand Pauls writing is no fault of Paul, but be warned that it will lead to your destruction.

Paul was the Head of the congregation of the Gentiles like Peter was the head of the congregation of the Jews. There wasnt Just 1 church, there were 2 congregations that had a different sets of Laws. The Jews had to keep the entire Law (Minus the laws that expired under the New Covenant). The Gentiles had to keep fewer Laws (Initially) so as not to over burden them. (Keep in mind that the Jews were given their Laws gradually over 40 years so it would have been difficult for new believers to keep all of them initially). My point is that in terms of the bible the Gentiles were given their Law through Paul and the congregation was formed under him.

How then is Paul a fake apostle? When the 12 Apostles acknowledged him?

Im from South Africa, I most definitely believe that lightning can be sent to kill you. It is mostly happens in the rainy season where not a lot of question will be asked. But there are Jujus that can be used to make it happen even in the months when it doesnt rain often. Clouds gather suddenly, it storms for 5 minutes and many people die. This Juju is most effective in the rainy season when lighting is more frequent.The are means to defend against such a Juju. Most people who have never experienced these types of witchcraft personally will not believe it.

We have a few tribes and as far as im aware witches from all of them can send lightning. (Using different methods as certain plants and animals etc are indigenous to certain tribal areas etc.)

outc@st:



Well, you are free to do whatever you want to...it's your right. But do note that not every instruction Paul gives can be categorized as divine law. Like I said before, Paul gave those laws because he felt they were good for the church at the time.

The question you should ask yourself is what law was Paul talking about? Divine law? Or a personal law?

The phrase "But I..." as used in the passage of Sacred scriptures is a pointer to which of the laws he was refering to:


1 Timothy 2:12
King James Version (KJV)
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Paul did not mince words when he made us understand that not every instruction he gives is to be considered as divinely inspired when he said:



1 Corinthians 7:25
King James Version (KJV)
25 Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.

It is very clear from the above that there are some instructions given by Paul which are his own thoughts and being his thoughts on the matter are subject to change. It is key that we understand which laws are directly from God and which are put up for the good of the church but for which no instruction was gotten from God.

Anyways, like I said before, you have a right to reject whatever I say but do note this, do not go about Lording it over every woman you see in the streets because it is said that a woman should not have authority over a man, otherwise you might just find yourself in jail or out of a job.

You conveniently skip over 1 Corinthians 14:34&35 "34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church"

The Law was as follows for marriage:

Genesis 1:28 "28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”"

Genesis 2:24 "24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh."

Matthew 19:4-6 "4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”"

Matthew 19:10-12 "10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”"

The prevailing Law from Genesis also confirmed bu Jesus is that it is Lawful for man to be with wife and vice versa. Fornication is a sin to be avoided (All sin should be avoided, but some are especially bad). Jesus says in response to the question of not marrying as if you can handle it it okay. This is not the law, but a concession.

1 Corinthians 7:6-9 "6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

Again Paul emphasises that remaining a virgin is not the law but a concession because there was a crisis at hand. Many of the would be wives and husbands were about to be arrested and persecuted and their life expectancy wasnt too good. This was a MATTER of CHOICE, woman were never given the choice to preach or not to preach.

A concession to the law applies within the Law, not outside of it. Even though it may seem to you like Paul's own thoughts but it was actually God giving them a concession to the Law. Otherwise live or die, they would need to get married (Multiply, but for this to occur marriage must happen first) as the law prescribes.

There was a reason for this concession otherwise it would never have been made.

1 Corinthians 7:25-29 "25 Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy. 26 Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is. 27 Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife. 28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this. 29 What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not"

Everything that Paul did and said was divinely inspired. He was lead by the Holy Spirit in all he said and did. For you to think that your thoughts surpass his thoughts and judgement is arrogant at best.

Let me give an example. When you die and go to heaven and are found to be unmarried and have no children and God looks at the very first Law man was given to see if you have fulfilled and it is found that you have not. You are now guilty, but those that have been given a concession wont be found guilty.

Similarly when you or anyone else dies and goes to heaven, you will be asked about preaching etc...(As well as many other Laws)... You will be found guilty of transgressing the law and punished accordingly if that is the case.

But they were Just Pauls' "thoughts" after all, but funny how they can save you from being punished.

Outside of the church Government Law is to be followed (Romans 13), so I have no problem with woman in authority. In fact I have only ever had a female boss.

Be careful not to distort Pauls words and add in things where you feel you should and subtract things where you feel you should.

outc@st:


Hi Cel,

I don't believe that passage of sacred scriptures is trying to tell us that it is wrong for women to teach in churches or have authority over men. The message could hardly pass as a divine law but some 'personal sentiments' of Paul which he believes is needed for that church at the time.

I believe we should learn to draw the line between divine instructions and instructions put up by the apostles which they believe would help build up the body of Christ at the time.

It is no news that todays world is very different from the world Paul and the other apostles lived in. The instruction Paul gave for that 'church' was relevant to them in their time but that instruction has far outlived its usefulness.

You have ladies holding positions of authority in every facet of life today and really, I believe it is a welcome development and something that is surely beneficial to the body of Christ today.

outc@st:


I did not say God's law can change. Get your looking glass and read again.

1 Corinthians 14:34&35 "34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church"

Pay attention to where it says "as the law says". Your thoughts and opinions are contrary to the law.

" The message could hardly pass as a divine law but some 'personal sentiments' of Paul which he believes is needed for that church at the time."

If Pauls words dont pass as Divine instruction (Him being the Apostle to the Gentiles, tasked with preaching the Gospel through the Holy Spirit), why do you think you views should hold? Who is greater? You or Paul?

Paul didnt teach what he just felt was right, 1 Galatians 1:11&12 "11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ." Paul received instruction directly from God just like Moses and Peter.

Pauls sentiments were not his own. Your sentiments on the other hand are just that and can be disregarded and should be disregarded.

Alfa Seltzer:

all these but you still didn't answer the question.

Firstly there wasn't just a question, there were 10 in all.

My post addressed the first 4.

Secondly there is no way to answer your questions directly without looking ridiculous which is why I chose to render them moot.

How can anyone answer "How many black Saints or Angels do you know" when angels are neither black nor white. They are Angels.

You should have just said thank you for the enlightenment and modified your question appropriately in order to avoid looking the way you do now.

outc@st:


Hi Cel,

I don't believe that passage of sacred scriptures is trying to tell us that it is wrong for women to teach in churches or have authority over men. The message could hardly pass as a divine law but some 'personal sentiments' of Paul which he believes is needed for that church at the time.

I believe we should learn to draw the line between divine instructions and instructions put up by the apostles which they believe would help build up the body of Christ at the time.

It is no news that todays world is very different from the world Paul and the other apostles lived in. The instruction Paul gave for that 'church' was relevant to them in their time but that instruction has far outlived its usefulness.

You have ladies holding positions of authority in every facet of life today and really, I believe it is a welcome development and something that is surely beneficial to the body of Christ today.

Gods law is unchanging. Only certain people are allowed to change the law and those changes are in accordance with Gods will. Moses was the head of the church of the Jews under Old Covenant and all those that did not obey the Law of "Moses" got into trouble with God. "Moses" Law was in fact not his own, it was given him by God, Paul is the equivalent of Moses to the Gentiles under the New Covenant as Peter is the Head of the Congregation of the Jews under the New Covenant. Jesus kept the law of Moses, even though it was given under different circumtances.

It is a sin to add to the bible and take away from it. You cant change the law into what you want it to be, in 50 years when is common for father to marry his daughter will that be ok? Or for man to lie with beast?

God is not human that he should think like us, this mentality of assuming God will be ok with this and that because you feel like this or that.

How many irrelevant laws are there in your country? Im sure many that were made long ago. But until they are abolished, you can and will be punished for breaking them. You can abolish your local law, but easily want to abolish Gods Law? Not a good idea.

You say some laws outlive their usefulness. How would we come to that conclusion? We would first have to know its purpose to determine its usefulness. Even if a law was given verbatim with seemingly no human purpose it is still a law and such we must observe it. Its not about how we think or feel. Its about what Gods wants. Saul made the same mistake of assuming in 1 Samuel 15. He thought would like sacrifices etc but Samuel goes on to tell him obedience is what God wants.