₦airaland Forum

emmanuelewumi:
Oga Tony, you be our oga for here. It not easy to be a young at heart retiree.
I hope to join you in the retirees club in 5 years by His grace.

My Oga, e ma bo ore Olorun mo ra.

Are you saying that once anyone retires he automatically becomes an "Oga" on this thread even if he is not knowledgeable on the subject matter?

What I understand "Oga" to mean is a Guru and I honestly don't think I am one

Investnow2017:
Oga Tony, going by the TBills programme for this 3rd quarter, its like there will be no auction for 364days tenor in the next bid.

Please can you take a look at the schedule posted by a folk here and advice please. If true, i might have to settle for the Secondary market at First Bank away from my branch.

UPDATE ON AVAILABILITY OF 364 DAYS TENOR FOR NEXT TREASURY BILLS AUCTION.

I have researched and found out that when the same scenario happened for the auction of 21st Dec 2016, 364 days tenor was not offered.

It is therefore possible that other tenors except that for 364 days only will be on offer.

Investnow2017:
Oga Tony, going by the TBills programme for this 3rd quarter, its like there will be no auction for 364days tenor in the next bid.

Please can you take a look at the schedule posted by a folk here and advice please. If true, i might have to settle for the Secondary market at First Bank away from my branch.

PLEASE just address me as TONY56 o.

What makes me your "Oga"?
I am not an Oga o.
Three are so many people on this forum that I doff my hat for and respect their intellect on Treasury bills and money matters or instruments generally. So if I qualify as an Oga, then which adjective or what are you going to call them?

Maybe you don't realise that we are all gaining one thing or the other through our interactions on this beautiful and money making Thread.

I BEG O, I BE OMO ISE-(SERVANT) O.

Investnow2017:
Oga Tony, going by the TBills programme for this 3rd quarter, its like there will be no auction for 364days tenor in the next bid.

Please can you take a look at the schedule posted by a folk here and advice please. If true, i might have to settle for the Secondary market at First Bank away from my branch.

If you look at what the posted spread sheet is saying critically (if true and correct), it's simply telling us that CBN is NOT INDEBTED to anyone for 364days tenor that will mature on that date and MAY or MAY NOT offer to sell NTB of that tenor on that day. BUT, CBN needs the money badly and is almost certainly going to offer to sell Treasury Bills on that date.

Note also that the fact that CBN has tenors of 91 & 182 days that will mature on that day DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY MUST BORROW AGAIN if they have funds to pay for the matured tenors and they don't need to borrow from the public again.

But bet you that they still need to borrow from the public and that's why NTB rate currently is this very high.

Investnow2017:
Oga Tony, going by the TBills programme for this 3rd quarter, its like there will be no auction for 364days tenor in the next bid.

Please can you take a look at the schedule posted by a folk here and advice please. If true, i might have to settle for the Secondary market at First Bank away from my branch.

If you observed, the guy who posted the schedule himself is not sure. He himself was asking. I think he based his suspicion on the fact that according to his speadsheet, no 364-day tenor will mature on that date but I don't think that's enough (if true) to confirm that CBN won't allow it especially since they need it.

CBN and the posted spread sheet has not indicated that there will be no auction on the next auction date. They know that it's not everyone that is privi to the spread sheet and would spread the news if it's not going to hold. So I advice that you be patient.

Meanwhile, you can find out from your Bank to confirm.

vazsily:
Good evening houz, if I may ask can you place TBILLS of fidelity & Gtb on the same level with first bank.

How dare you compare sleep with death?

tobe4real:
5-10pages?? Cool!thanks,better than reading 300+ pages

I have adviced you not to get scared by 350 pages but you seem to be looking for a short cut.

Well, the choice is yours and I bet you that if you decide to go through only the last 10 pages as advised by someone, you will still come back to ask many questions.

I will be waiting to see you back with questions sooner or later

Glowoak:
Good day house. Is it possible to have an interest ridiculously less than the calculated after purchase of treasury bill. Eg 500k TB purchased for 91 days tenor yielding #450 only?

Did you write N450.00? If yes, then
This is absolutely an impossibility even if it was at 10% which would have given you about N12,500.00

Where did you get that from?
Did you do the investment yourself?
We're you sent the result of your Bank''s bid?
Was your account credited one or two days after the bid day with the N450.00 interest or after 91days?
Do you have either the copy of the mail sent to you or the hard copy you obtained from your bank?

On the contrary, if it was invested for you through a proxy, be sure that person is lying to you as you must have been scammed or maybe you or him put the money in a savings account.

Come to think of it again, even a savings account of 1% per annum for 91days would have given you about N416.67 for just one month and N1,250 for 91days.

SORRY O! MY BROTHER

tobe4real:
ok thanks....hmmm I just checked and saw it's 345 pages,I wonder when I'll be able to get done going through

In your own interests, you better go through from page 1 to the end so that you don't keep asking same questions that have been answered severally and at the end of the day, you will be glad you did.

Don't get scared at all, it's something you can finish in less than one week IF you are determined. Just target at least 50 pages a day as if you're reading a novel and at the end of the day you won't ask a single question again on the forum while you find yourself making contributions and enlightening others.

Try it and thank me later cause you can do it

tobe4real:
10%

You were lucky to have gotten 10%.
Hope you have "learnt you lessons now?" Better run away and move to Treasury Bills where your treasures are right now.

okochaik:
Hello house i want you guys to advice me on this that have been bothering me. I have wanted to invest in TB since this year but i have a kind of fear that made me start to contemplate. I am a type that likes to invest all in one and so like to be careful not to lose at the end. What bothers me is the Biafran Agitation issues and now my question is, if anyhow Biafra separates can the Nigerian government decide not to refund my money?

This have really left me with thoughts of using the money to buy land. Please i need professional advice from the house
Note: No tribalism here

Do you know that you MAY be worse of if you invest it in buying land especially if it's not in your side of the divide?
But if the land is bought in your village it may be better but the value may drop by as much as 80% if people don't have money to buy then whereas you can come back to Nigeria as a foreigner to get your money even if you leave with Biafra.

okochaik:
Hello house i want you guys to advice me on this that have been bothering me. I have wanted to invest in TB since this year but i have a kind of fear that made me start to contemplate. I am a type that likes to invest all in one and so like to be careful not to lose at the end. What bothers me is the Biafran Agitation issues and now my question is, if anyhow Biafra separates can the Nigerian government decide not to refund my money?

This have really left me with thoughts of using the money to buy land. Please i need professional advice from the house
Note: No tribalism here

Mind you, even foreigners can and do invest in Nigerian Treasury Bills. So I don't see your fears at all.

Better invest and go to sleep.

okochaik:
Hello house i want you guys to advice me on this that have been bothering me. I have wanted to invest in TB since this year but i have a kind of fear that made me start to contemplate. I am a type that likes to invest all in one and so like to be careful not to lose at the end. What bothers me is the Biafran Agitation issues and now my question is, if anyhow Biafra separates can the Nigerian government decide not to refund my money?

This have really left me with thoughts of using the money to buy land. Please i need professional advice from the house
Note: No tribalism here

Me think that you MAY only lose if you go with Biafra in the scenario you painted since it would mean that it's Biafra that's leaving Nigeria and not Nigeria leaving Biafra.

That's just my thought!!!

walexlo78:
Hi TONY56,

I totally understand, I am also not a novice in this game but only pass on comments once in a while. I play this TB game and really hard.

To do the compounded interest game based in my own scenario is to have 1M + other fees/commissions in your account while you put compounded face value of 1.216M on your application form, by so doing after the debit, no fund will remain idle in your account. The benefit of this is for investor who does not want the upfront interest to remain in the account after the bid and strategically you already invest the upfront interest before you earn it.

The scenario you gave is different and will work if you have extra fund to match the face value on the form which you won't be using till after the bid cycle.

My explained scenario will make a lot of sense when you look at high investment, example of 20m. At 18%, that's 3.6 meaning with your scenario you need to have 23.6 in your account. With my own scenario, you need to have only N20M plus the fees in your account but the 23.6 on the form. To do this with your scenario, you will need to also have the 3.6 in your account.

My scenario is what I have always done with GTB before like I mentioned in another post. I hope I make some sense.

Oh yes. Very well understood

unite4real:
you really dont need all these computation to infinity. Just apply this simple formular and you are done with your outcome, once.

(Principal x 100)/(100 - interest or bid rate)

To me, I don't need those computations BUT w.e are not equally gifted about mathematical calculations, hence
the need to come down to some people's level and I bet you that so many on this forum appreciate this method that you refer to as "Computation to infinity" than your "Simple formula".

More over, the "Computation to infinity" you're referring to was'nt initiated by me. I merely made an observed correction of it.

Because you are good in Mathematics does not imply that others must be so good in it

walexlo78:
Hi, sure you do this with Stanbic? which branch please? I was at Ogba branch yesterday but they did not allow it because they insisted that the amount in my account must match the face value written on the TB application. Please let me know the branch where this is possible.

It's like you don't really understand what many of us have been explaining about how to compound your interest with Stanbic.

What we have been explaining is that Stanbic does not allow compounding of interest but you can do your simple arithmetic of what you want yourself and be sure that you have up to the face value of what you will get at the end of your tenor in your account so that when you will be debited, it will only be the discounted amount.

A good example is that of someone who wants to compound his interests on investment of 1,000,000 with the assumption of 18%. After doing his own calculations on compounding, he arrives at N1,220,000 to be collected at the end of the tenor. So, at Stanbic what he needs to do is to leave at least N1,220,000 face value in his account and write same amount on his form for the investment instead of N1,000,000 but when he is to be debited, Stanbic will debit ONLY N1,000,000 and at the end of 364days, he will be credited with N1,220,000 instead of N1,000,000.

I hope this explains it all to you?.

2n2k:
1. They will freeze before the bidding date and debit you with the discounted principal a day after the bidding date (not maturity date) if you are successful. The discount itself will not be debited. At maturity, you will be credited with the face-value.

2. A long process but shortened there
1st discount reinvestment: 180,000 x 18% = 32,400. New principal =180,000-32,400 = 147,600
2nd discount reinvestment: 147,600 x 18% = 26,570. New principal =147,600-26,570 = 121,030
3rd discount reinvestment: 121,030 x 18% = 21,785. New principal = 121,030-21,785 = 99,245

If you continue with the calculations, the new principal and discounts receivable will continue to decrease till you get zero. At that point, if you add all the discounts, you will get N220,000 in total. If you deduct the initial N180,000 from it, you get N40,000. Of course, in the exam hall, there is statistical formula to shorten the steps, but many people may be put off by that. So that is the lay-man process.

3. Since the whole investment is N1m (after reinvestment of discounts), the face value is no longer N1m but N1m plus the 220,000 interest reinvested, so the face value due at maturity is N1,220,000

You have been very wonderful with the way you tried to explain this compounding interest of a thing to people BUT it appears you made a mistake in paragraph 2.

Your calculation on the 1st discount reinvestment is correct but after re investing the N180,000 at same 18%, your next principal should be the discount you get on the N180,000 which is N180,000-N147,600=N32,400 and not N180,000-N32,400.

So, 2nd discount reinvestment should be N32,400 x 18% =N5,832.

your 3rd discount reinvestment will be N5,832 × 18% =N1,049.76.

Your 4th discount reinvestment will be N1,049.76 × 18% =N188.9568.

Your 5th discount reinvestment will be N188.9568 x 18% =N34.81.

Up to this point, we already have N(32.400 + 5.832 + 1.049.76 + 188.9568 + 34.81) =N39.504.729. So, when you continue like that till you get zero and add all the interests together, you'll get very close to the N40,000 we are talking about and adding it to the initial interest of N180,000 gives total compounded interest of N220,000 on investment of N1,000,000 for one year at the rate of 18% and people should note that they have decided to postpone the collection of their interests by so doing and that's why they would be getting N1,220,000 at the end of the tenor of 364days instead of N1,000,000 that others who received their N180,000 up front will receive.

As I said earlier, you did a beautiful job but I think somewhere along the line, you just missed that step.

Bravo!!!

NL1960:
Nice one. Is there a formula for achieving this such that when you slot in any amount, you arrive at a figure.

Even if you are able to get a formula for it, you can't be perfect cause you won't know the rate until after the bidding.

2n2k:
Note that stanbic doesn't debit you until your bid is successful and will only debit you with the discounted amount only.

However, it will freeze the face-value of your bid (though still in your account but not available for withdrawal) a day to the bidding day.

There is really no easy way to re-invest thru stanbic, however, if you have surplus amounts in the account to cover it, you can go like the example below

Let us say, you intend to invest N1m face-value at (estimated) bank rate of 18% with a tenor of 364 days

Fill a form for N1,220,000
This is N1,000,000 + N180,000 (i.e. the discount on N1m) + N40,000 (compounding discount on subsequent re-investments till discount get to zero)

Stanbic will freeze N1,220,000 on your account a day to bidding day without debiting you.

A day after the bidding, your account will only be debited with N1,000,000 and other minor commissions.

At maturity, you will be credited with N1,220,000.

Note that your yield is now 22% and not the 18% discount rate. This is called true yield when you reinvest discount at the same rate and tenor as the principal.

������
You just nailed it.
That's how I do it with Stanbic cause they don't do compounding interest at all and it's not in their form.
All you need to achieve this is to be able to do some simple Arithmetic

Investnow2017:
Oga TONY56,

Can you tell us your experience with First Bank regarding the Primary Market. When do they debit account?

First Bank debits on Mondays before the auction day. Sometimes, the debit alert may come on Tuesday but definitely not after the auction as practiced in Stanbic

Fm4real06:
Perhaps u work with stanbic.. my driver's license epired, wallet containing voters card was stolen, the only valid means of I.D wasnt accepted to open the required account so i rather stick with my FBN.

Well, the First Bank you're sticking to is also good for Primary Market but if you really want to try Stanbic you would go and renew your Driver's License. After all you need it too so as not to get into trouble with the law enforcement people.

Now you do not have ANY valid means of identification and you also probably refused to register with LASRA as a resident of Lagos State if you live in Lagos thinking that it can't be useful to you.

I am sure that you're enjoying First Bank too especially their Secondary Market which is about the best except that they don't leave your discounted interest in your account while debiting whereas Stanbic debits your account with only the discounted amount.

CuteRedd:
Hello Tony56 do you have any knowledge of stanbic's secondary market rate as at today?

Anytime you have funds to invest, pls don't wait to hear from anyone about the rates available. Just move over to any branch and ask the officer in charge of NTB there. If you wait for someone to inform you, it would be late because by the time you make the move, it would have been moped by other investors.

Even when you are in the Banking hall, before you finish filling the forms, those who see it even in other branches may be faster than you and by the time the officer is trying to process it, it may be gone because it's online in ALL their systems all over the country.

What I normally do is to get the forms before hand and fill it leaving only the dates and rates and amount at home before leaving my house and go very early in the morning especially on Mondays to save time.

CuteRedd:
Hello Tony56 do you have any knowledge of stanbic's secondary market rate as at today?

No please. I only bother my self about it when I have funds to invest or when I have cause to visit any Stanbic Branch.

You know, I am a very small investor and a retiree just looking for chop money

Gavrelino123:
That's not really smart....Remember, u will also have to wait for two more weeks to reinvest

Apart from that, he can't get 18% at Primary Market but maybe he has Secondary Market in mind

Fm4real06:
Perhaps u work with stanbic.. my driver's license epired, wallet containing voters card was stolen, the only valid means of I.D wasnt accepted to open the required account so i rather stick with my FBN.

You goofed.
I am not a Banker,
I am a Mechanical Engineer,
I am a retired Civil Servant,
Not a single member of my family works with Stanbic.
My only account with Stanbic is a Savings account which I opened just on 7th of June this year specifically for Treasury Account because they are the BEST for Primary Market and are next to First Bank that i have been Banking with for about 30yrs.
I also have my Retirees Account with Stanbic
.
I am only in love with the Bank bacause of their services and performance with very robust returns on investments (ROI).

If you are not aware, Stanbic is an international Bank and it's the 2nd best performing Bank in Nigeria after GTB and their share holders smile home yearly while as PFA (Pension Fund Administrator), they are second to none in this country with the highest returns on Pension Contribution Savings and Retirees Pension Account.

So I can't but sing their praise because it's "7up" I.e "The difference is not only clear, but very clear"

NoQualms1:
Please guys, what do you think about this Senate decision regarding Stanbic IBTC? I want to invest in their MMF but I'm scared they MAY no longer last in Nigeria. Please advice.

cc: all Stanbic fans

Pl's explain "Senate decision regarding Stanbic IBTC". I am not aware of their decision. Can you throw more light about it?

[quote author=olujaidi post=58952134]Could not find the e-book online. Only hard copy on Amazon. Kindly suggest alternatives

I understand the basic idea of leverage, although I'm leery of using it for speculation as it can amplify your losses (and gains). I'd rather use it for cash flow generating projects. How do you minimise your losses (on the investments)if things go south? or if the prices don't rise as anticipated within the specified timeframe?


Very good and pertinent question that many should ponder over because if very good care is not taken, fingers will be burnt.
Stock market is Un predictable as it may go either Northwards or Southwards and it depends on a lot of factors which the investors can't determine nor control.
So people should be very careful about jumping into the stock market or any other business with borrowed funds to avoid "drowning"

Fm4real06:
Well people can only speak for themselves and what they know. I have been to both stanbic and fistbank to make enquiries on the secondary market rates. Trust me Stanbic offered a very juicy rate which i could have gone for but the stress of opening new Stanbic account and transferring my funds from fbn made me to stick with FBN. In addition the rates of stanbic have little or no difference to that of fbn just that 1% is material when dealing wih large sum of money. I hope i av told u my own reasons!

Trust me, Stanbic is one of the easiest to open savings account with. You can open the account just after an NTB and I bet that within 5 days or less, your residence would have been verified and your account No would be sent to you via a text message and off you start and for every transaction, you get both text messages and e-mail notifications promptly and at the end of the day, you will be very glad you did.

All you need are just 2 passport photographs; a valid I'D card which may be Driver's License, Voters card, LASRA Card, or International passport. (PHCN or any Utility bill is not required)

RealityShot:
you do t-bills at 18%
then go take a loan with it at 30%

how does that makes sense please?

I wonder o and feel lost

Fm4real06:
In the primary market, you are buying directly from CBN. The rates are unknown untill the final bidding. When filling the form for primary market, u can indicate the rate at which you want to invest in treasuy bills. Meanwhile it is better to go for a reasonable rate or else your bidding will be rejected. Although the minumum investment in primary market is 50million naira, but if you have below 50m, it means the commercal bank or investment house is adding your funds to the pool of funds they have and buying directly from CBN which means the bank will indicate their own interest.
In addition, you can only get 92days, 184days and 364days in primary market.

For secondary market, you are buying from an existing investor. Some1 that has invested may want to sell his investments, so u are buing from them through your commercial bank. That is why the rates are mostly juicy(good). Unlike primary market, you can get any tenor based on availability. E.g 60days 67days 188ays, 365days etc.
In the secondary market, u can invest with 100k to any amount all based on availability.

I hope i tried sha.

Yeah you did a wonderful job but there is no way anyone can get 365 days either in the Primary or Secondary Markets as the max tenor is 364 days which you can only get at the Primary Market.

Likewise, tenors available at the Primary Market does not include 92 & 184 days but 91 & 182 days as well as 364 days.

Fm4real06:
Na wa o... firstbank is truly the first!

Only in the Secondary market o!

Ben1975:
TBills can give you 14% ROI but there is an even safer investment vehicle that can give you between 150% to 500% ROI in twelve months. High yielding land in Ibeju Lekki.

For more info contact me on the details in my signature

Sincerely

Ben

So you have not seen a suitable thread on nairaland where you can advertise your land business except to make an attempt to derail this thread.

I can assure you that you won't succeed in derailing this thread. It's better for you to start a thread for your product please if you can't find an existing one