₦airaland Forum

tctrills:
Planting the tree of the fruit of knowledge of Good and evil in the garden was one of the very best things God has done for man.
God wants us to have the knowledge of Good and evil.
Let me ask you, as parents if you know a thing is poisonous, would you leave it close to your kids?
God knew that mortality was the only way man could gain perfection and become like him.
However, he wanted it to be our choice.

KnownUnknown:
Definitely part of an origin myth and I understand your “moral truth” but I disagree.

It’s not common knowledge but a common assumption. Who decides where the moderates end and the fundamentalist begin. You say that as if there is a clear line between a moderate and a fundamentalist when it’s totally subjective.

The church doctrine that may be the greatest scam ever perpetrated. However, there is an “original sin” in the story that is utterly useless to the church.

Judaism and its offshoots share the same Adam and Eve, just different interpretations.

KnownUnknown:
What is the encapsulated “moral truth” of the allegory?

What is a moderate Christian? Are there levels of severity in Christianity?

If it’s an allegory, what is the “original sin” that Jesus supposedly died for to forgive and them?

If the naked simpletons didn’t literally eat a fruit and Hebrew god didn’t get angry, why did the ghost impregnate the virgin in order to give birth to the sacrificial lamb?
Is Jesus also an allegory? What do s he symbolize?

phatriqk:
I like to think the garden of Eden was situated somewhere in Africa, and possible the Sahara desert, it just mere assumptions though out of curiosity.

midnight378:
I understand it. I reject it .

I don't care what you have cherry-picked to be beneficial... There is a reason 10 % of Americans are EX-CATHOLICS .
they hate the bullshit they were taught and enslaved them as children. Utilitarianism is a slippery slope.

There has been as much evil perpetrated by religion by those who claim THEIR religious truth is THE religious truth as anything else.
Society as "theocracy" is as dangerous an anything imaginable . we've seen the results of that crap.
We know what religion is and the effects of that bullshit are all around us ..
You're fooling no one. https://www.americamagazine.org/issue/ro...i8QAvD_BwE.

taking illegal drugs produces good effects also

It's not the belief system . It's not religion.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna40549161
It's being a part of a close-knit community, that meets regularly.

"It's not their spirituality, belief in heaven, or even the ritual act of praying or going to a house of worship that leads the pious to happiness. Rather, the study found, it's the close friends people gain through their religions that makes a difference.

The findings suggest that forging close bonds with people over mutually shared and meaningful interests might boost quality of life for anyone, religious or not. But there's something about being part of a congregation in particular that seems to build a sense of community and lead to fulfillment for many people."

do any of your studies have a proper control group ?

midnight378:
.... says the troll who fails to explain how "good effects" from false belief systems are actually beneficial.

midnight378:
if I need any advice from the likes of you..., I'll be sure and ask.
what you intend is perfectly obvious.
Nice try at evasion though. This is a public forum . I'll comment on whatever I decide to comment on, including your rubbish.

midnight378:
Great. So you're proposing that people who actually don't believe *say* they do, to obtain a result ? LOL
there are studies that show people do worse when they think people are praying for them.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20...ayed%20for.




Un huh.... you're saying the mind is powerful , so we should lie to ourselves to obtain an outcome. I'm sorry but that is utterly stupid and dishonest .



Everyone has their own social groups . Your unsupported assumptions are wrong , and again....., you're proposing it's better to be dishonest, as you claim it produces a better outcome. GREAT.... So here we have somebody who proposes we tell ourselves things we don't believe because it produces a better outcome .
No matter what the studies show , this is ridiculous in the extreme,... and basically proves that you promote dishonesty for the sake of outcome,... based on nothing ,.... and based on concepts you attempt to justify secondary to the outcomes, not the reality. I doubt I've ever read such utter rubbish.



Prove it. Unsupported assertion.
Even if true, think about it . You want to change their personality type ?
You want to FORCE them to join religious groups, even though they might hate it ?
THAT's a great idea..... Not!
Do you have data to support this ? What about religious people who prefer to be alone ?
You going to force them to change also ?

"Negative Aspects of Religious Involvement" Along with the presumed benefits of religious involvement for health, religion may also be associated with negative outcomes, such as poorer mental and physical health status, negative coping behaviors, and inappropriate use of health services."
https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/pdf/10...%2C%20106).

Near1:
Why do you insist that meaning should be handed down to you from on high? You don't seem to understand that people can define the meaning of their own lives for themselves, without being told what to value by someone else.

Sure, to a goldfish, the only part of the world that matters is his goldfish bowl. But I can assure you that there's a world of thought and meaning far and wide outside the goldfish bowl you live in.

Tamaratonye1:
(my bold)

Please provide evidence.

Endtimer:
[b] You ask an impossible question and plead that we ignore its impossibility for the sake of argument. I’m curious as to how science could disprove God.[/b]Contrary to common atheist folklore, science has spent the last century bringing us closer to belief in the supernatural. It’s a shame that there aren’t enough Christians aware of this to point it out often enough until it sticks. It’s a shame there aren’t enough Christians who know that science is on their side.

As to your point concerning the difference between life with and without God:

- Atheism is only tenable in a predominantly religious society. If we all began to live without belief in God as a result of some impossible scientific discovery, it would ultimately destroy society or lead back to religion. The reason for this is because atheists take for granted the religious pillars all civilized societies are built on; the concept of morality and legislation for instance go hand in hand. Rather than reorder society after the eradication of religion, atheists would need to continue pretending as though religion still had moral force in society; until someone asks: “why can’t I just do whatever I want”. In the end we’ll arrive at a religious society because atheistic society is unsustainable and humans are incurably religious.

- On a personal, rather than sociological, level religion provides purpose for living. Atheism doesn’t. On atheism, suicide is not morally abhorrent. Western nations are beginning to witness the effects of unbelief as their citizens increasingly end their own lives. Let me ask you a question: would it make any difference if you were going to kill yourself today or tomorrow? On atheism, it certainly wouldn’t. On atheism, the fact that we are going to die one day is enough motivation for us to end our lives at once. Anything is enough motivation for us to end our lives.

- Contrary to what many atheists believe, increasing secularism negatively correlates with happiness in society. While happiness isn’t the point of life, it is worth noting that the decline of religion has been accompanied by increased depression in the west.

Note that none of the above is meant to validate the authenticity of religion. Instead it is to conceptualize the faithless society posited in the op.

Gopkk:
. Yeah he has Inspected it ,That was 3 weeks ago..still Expecting a buyer ..

Thanks sooo much ...

Gopkk:
Prayer Over and Over .
Fasted over and Over .

By Grace and Strength Available ,Tried as much as I could to keep steadfast .

Situation is getting Worst .

I Offered my House for sale on the thread below .

https://www.nairaland.com/7329065/abeg-abeg-buy-property-save

No One is buying ...I have Two Houses .Intend Using Money gotten from the sale to Start up .

My Children are Hungry , Can't Withstand the Pains of seeing them Hungry ..No Job ,A Farmer ,No business. Suicidal thoughts is Really threatening my Reasoning .



Did a Bus Conductor for Some days now for the first time so I could raise money to buy food for my Children ,Fell off the LT Bus .From Toll Gate Sango to Iyana Ipaja Wasn't an Expert Running after Bus.One of them was Having Sepsis / Malaria Typhoid ,Able to get Some Drugs for her after been Attended to at the General Hospital,OTA ,Obasanjo ,But not all drugs

Not a Lazy Person .

budaatum:
Sorry triple, your time is up.

budaatum:
I was unconscious so wouldn't know as you rightly observed, and those there were thankfully too busy reviving me and grateful they succeeded for that to have been their concern.

Perhaps if you'd been there with a heart monitor to check you'd have been able to tell us if my heart stopped. But personally I am glad you were not there, because while you are busy checking whether my heart stopped or not instead of reviving me I just might have died.

As to the rest of your nonsense, I could not read past the above at this moment in time because it can't be anything but your usual nonsense. I might later though when I have time to waste on you.

budaatum:
And I suppose, if "scientists using current methods" are not there to use those so called current methods, the subjective experience of the individual person reporting their subjective NDE is invalid, right?.

And I guess you and scientists are there checking if the person's heart has stopped before you can accept whether they had a NDE or not?.

Because it is a subjective experience, triple! Like, in the eye of the beholder! .

By God, how the hell do you expect a person experiencing a NDE to know what is happening to their "heart or brain during those period"? .

Did you not see from me asking what people were looking at that I was not even aware where I was or what had happened to me not to talk of whatever may have been happening to my heart and brain?
.

No triple. Let us not accept my heart stopped, since neither of us were measuring my heart at the time. And no, I will not share my personal subjective experience since they were subjective and it would be false of me to present my subjective experience as anything objective..

Have you considered you deserve it too?.

Insult me all you want. I am not the sort to consider your subjective insults as anything objective, but purely attempts by you to hide your lack of knowledge which is glaringly obvious.

budaatum:
And I suppose, if "scientists using current methods" are not there to use those so called current methods, the subjective experience of the individual person reporting their subjective NDE is invalid, right?


And I guess you and scientists are there checking if the person's heart has stopped before you can accept whether they had a NDE or not?


Because it is a subjective experience, triple! Like, in the eye of the beholder!

By God, how the hell do you expect a person experiencing a NDE to know what is happening to their "heart or brain during those period"?

Did you not see from me asking what people were looking at that I was not even aware where I was or what had happened to me not to talk of whatever may have been happening to my heart and brain?


No triple. Let us not accept my heart stopped, since neither of us were measuring my heart at the time. And no, I will not share my personal subjective experience since they were subjective and it would be false of me to present my subjective experience as anything objective.


Have you considered you deserve it too?


Insult me all you want. I am not the sort to consider your subjective insults as anything objective, but purely attempts by you to hide your lack of knowledge which is glaringly obvious.

budaatum:
You seem sure it was not a close brush with death, it seems. Were you there with a monitor measuring, I wonder.

You can't have proven claims about the subjective experience of NDEs. Proven claims are objective, and it's difficult for you to prove or disprove a subjective experience.

You'd be even more stupid if you didn't doubt my subjective experience, as the alternative is you believing me which I hope you don't do and is the reason I waited so long despite your continued request to provide it in the first place since it is subjective.

Fact is, if you drink all the water at the Bar Beach or have 30, 5mg valium tablets jump down your throat, you'd pass out and be near to death during which you might have experiences which indicate continued activity of the brain and nervous system, which would stop once you pass from near dead to actual dead during which brain activity stops. Thankfully, concerned people were there to ensure my near death did not end in death, or I might not have been here to tell you about my very subjective experience, which I still insist must be taken with a ladle of salt, as in you must remain sceptical about it since the compromise of my consciousness under the circumstances make whatever is reported subject to doubt as a matter of course.


You are pathetic. Go read through the thread and tell me who has more hatred and problems here. It must frustrate you immensely to be opposed.

budaatum:
The fact that you are insisting that only what scientist say is what is valid, implies you are saying that, triple. What's ironic is that you don't accept what those same scientists say when it does not support your position here.

NDEs are subjective experiences, and it's rather stupid of you to claim one's subjective experience is not experienced or that one is lying, when the facts are that during and immediately after a NDE experience, one's brain is not functioning in its optimum state so one must take whatever experience they report with a pinch or a huge ladle of salt.

As for understanding you, I'm surprised you understand yourself, with your over verbiage.

budaatum:
As you've noted from my own stories, the experience is subjective to the subject experiencing it and reports must therefore be taken with a large dose of salt as they may not accurately report their experience or what might actually have happened.

In my own drinking of the Bar Beach, reports of family members are that almost 30 minutes passed between me regaining consciousness as opposed to lying there dead, and asking what people were looking at. One of my cousin's even reported that they went all the way to Obanikoro to see if I had returned home and claimed to have returned to be at the beach when I asked what people were starting at. While to me it seemed like I asked that question as soon as I was dragged out the water and opened my eyes, which seemed like a few seconds after I got into difficult in the sea.

And with the valium, my last conscious act was walking out of my room in Ketu and waking up in Ikeja General.

Triple, the fact is that NDE is a subjective experience reported by those who experience it, and the fact that it is a subjective experience makes it difficult to objectify as you seem to want to claim scientists have done.

budaatum:
Pay attention to the words in bold.



Dead people do not report subjective experiences because they are dead, triple!


I see where you get your pain from. buda is not pretending to be female. Those who ask know that, and those who do their own research instead of believing the crap they create in their own heads can very easily find out buda's gender if it's that important to them.

budaatum:
I guess you got your information about NDEs from the dead who did not survive, right?

Thankfully I did not write the story in response to you and posted a link to it. And you'd note it was not to prove NDEs so only what was relevant was narrated at the time it was written.

budaatum:
Dude, were you there? Emergency ward in Nigeria?

Still, I ended up in hospital both times. Ikeja General for the valium, and God knows where for the first. I was way too out to know. Ma is a nurse so I got special fasttrack treatment both times, but I expect you to come up with some other reason to claim you know better.

budaatum:
Of course it fuqing was!

I would have died otherwise.

budaatum:
What is wrong with you? What do you think those saving me were doing? Waiting for me to wake up from my dreams or something all by myself?

budaatum:
Triple, you do not know if my heart stopped, or my brain flatlined, nor did you measure my brain activity, but just listen to yourself make up what you want to believe with no evidence whatsoever.

buda rests.

budaatum:
Sorry triple, but there's no way I'm reading this verbiage of your's. All you do is insult rather than focus on the pertinent points and I have no time to dig through to find what is relevant.

Extract what's relevant into a separate post and I'll consider it.