₦airaland Forum

shahydbinaliyu:
laughing... that's not Islamic quote o.. we are told to tolerate each other.

Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are harsh to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

The concept of tolerance in Islam is only among fellow muslims as instructed by mohammed. Muslims are not meant to tollerate non-muslims but to be harsh to them (quran 48:29)

Empiree:
Actually, the more you species bring this stuff up, the more I support MODs in Islamic section. I silently criticized them at some point, especially for banning views that do not compatible with his (mac). Myself was banned several times for unpopular views.

MODs do not ban non-muslims from commenting in Islam section. Their concern, which I have finally concurred with is that non-muslims, Christians especially, the so called God-loving, christ-like folks blaspheme in islam section a lot. Not only that, what they did that put me off was when bunch of them posted po'rn'ograpy (pictures). Even at that time (just last year), there was no WRITTEN DECLARATION at the 'gate'. Anyone could come in. Christians and atheists posted nasty pictures and distorted message of Islam. I witnessed this. MOD had to hide those pictures.

Now, I know macof can care less because, it is "free world" in your perspective. That's you unfortunately. But us (muslims), we are conscious of our religion ISLAM.

So no one is stopping you from commenting or opening threads in Islam section; provided, you watch it. Quran speaks (3:110)

You(muslims) are the best community ever been raised up for mankind. You enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency; and you believe in Allah. And if the People of the Scripture had believed it had been better for them. Some of them are believers; but most of them are evil-livers.

No christian condemned those posts. Question is, should MODS not do something about it?. Just imagine those inappropriate pictures are still there today.

You make sense small here. The only issue I have here is your quran telling you that you are the best of mankind and we (non-muslims) 'vilest of creatures'. Thats xenophobic of the quran.

Ifeann:
U forgot to mention that Dubai, Qatar etc partnered with hundreds of "kaffir" US, UK and other westerned companies to develop their Emirates. U also forget to mention foreigners practically run those Emirates in the private sector and out number the indigenous Muslims 10 to 1.
You also forget the Emirates don't tale Islam serious and are far more secular than typical muslim countries including the very secular turkey.

U also forget the typical muslim country are the likes of Yemen, Iraq, Somalia, Libya, Iran, Egypt, Syria, north Sudan which are all a mess thanks to totalitarianism Islam's political ideology. Let's not forget the several defunct Islamic caliphates now extinct.

Lol the Muslims dilemma

Dont mind RoyPCain, he always apply the 6th pillar of Islam, al-taqiyya, that is lying. Dubai, saudi arabia the few 'well-to-do' muslim countries, are run by 'kafir'. Their oil is exploited by the 'kafir' companies (shell, chevron, exxon-mobil, texaco, agip etc). Even though non-muslims are not allowed in mecca and medina (because according to koran, non-muslims are unclean and vilest of creature), most of the infrastructures are build by the kafir.

Without the presense of the kafir in Islamic lands, the muslims there will still be using camels to travel from mecca to medina, jeddah to damascus, riyadd to yemen. The muslims does not have brains to manufucture nothings for humanity. Their cognitive dissonance is filled with the koran and how to hate and murder kafir who refused to accpet the lie, 'there is no god but allahh, and mohammed is his personal assistant'.

tartar9:
what's diz nonsense doing here moderators Islam section Moderators: emusmith, OAM4J

Muslims always threatning. Liars will always feel insecure.

tartar9:
what's diz nonsense doing here moderators Islam section Moderators: emusmith, OAM4J

Muslims always threatning. Liars will always feel insucure.

Abuamam:
Ok, why not mention that if an armed robber enters your house, then asks for your daughters, you will show him where they are hiding, because you are truthful?
Why not mention that when your wife asks you whether she is still the prettiest woman to you, you say "no, our neighbour's daughter is prettier" so you can be truthful?



T O T A L L Y I R R E L E V A N T T O T O P I C.
Just body filler. Now THAT is what I call deception.

Bukhari Volume 3, Book 49, Number
857: Narrated Um Kulthum bint
Uqba: That she heard Allah’s Apostle
saying, “He who makes peace between the people by INVENTING
good information or saying good
things, is not a liar.”

Do you take someone that has this view as a prophet? Someone that endorsses lies in order to settle quarells? I am holding this because your prophet is expected to me a man of high moral standard which he is not.

Ifeann:
Salient points:
1 - It explicitly states that this was a commandment to the Children of
Israel, i.e. the Jews! This is not a commandment to all people, and it
certainly should not be misused as if this is Allah's command to
Muhammad's people.
2 - Even if this were a command to the Muslims, there's still an escape
clause: "unless it be for murder or spreading mischief in the land." If
someone is "spreading mischief", he can still be killed. Now let's think
for a moment. The would-be Times Square bomber considers Americans
to be spreading mischief in Palestine and around the world (practically
all Muslims I know think this, even the ones who are American citizens).
Accordingly, even if this verse were to apply to someone like Faisal
Shahzad, he would still be justified in his slaughter.
As if this weren't obvious enough from the verse itself, the Qur'an
further expounds this point in the very next verse. 5:33 says
The punishment of those who wage war against God and His Apostle, and
strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution,
or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides,
or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy
punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.
This verse is referring to the Muslims, not the Jews anymore, as we can
tell in the shift from past tense to present tense. And here, the
punishment for mischief is clearly prescribed: execution, crucifixion,
mutilation, or at the least, exile. This is the command given to the
Muslims. Quite clearly, it does not teach what the Muslims proclaim it
teaches; in fact, it teaches almost the exact opposite.
It is undeniably clear that, in order to make Islam seem peaceful, Nazam
and many other Muslims rip this verse out of its context, take words out
of the very verse itself, changing the entire message for something
else. I wonder if they know they are guilty of Surah 5:13.
In any case, we should not let ourselves (or anyone who might be
interested) be deceived by the popular Muslim interpretation of these
verses.

Ifeann thanks a lot, you had indeed explained the context of the verses, quran 5:32-34, better than the way I could have, though we share 99% of the understanding of the verse. I need not explain more.

Lying is fully endorssed in Islam. See hadith below:

Bukhari Volume 3, Book 49, Number 857: Narrated Um Kulthum bint Uqba: That she heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “He who makes peace between the people by INVENTING good information or saying good things, is not a liar.”

Muslim Book 032, Number 6303: Humaid b. ‘Abd al-Rahman b. ‘Auf reported that his mother Umm Kulthum daughter of ‘Uqba b. Abu Mu’ait, and she was one amongst the first emigrants who pledged allegiance to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him), as saying that she heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good.

Bukhari Vol.1 Bk.7 No.1331 “The Prophet said, ‘I have been given five things which were not given to any one else before me.

1. Allah made me victorious by awe by His terrorizing my enemies.

2. The earth has been made for me.

3. Booty has been made lawful for me yet it was not lawful for anyone else before me.

4. I have been given the right of intercession.

5. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation only but I have been sent to all mankind.’”

Quran-8:1— “They ask thee concerning (things taken as) spoils of war (booty). Say: “(such) spoils are at the disposal of Allah and the Messenger: So fear Allah, and keep straight the relations between yourselves: Obey Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe.”

Quran-8:41— “And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah and the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer, – if ye do believe in Allah and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing, – the Day of the meeting of the two forces. For Allah hath power over all things.”

At this age and time, it is almost impossible for muslims to keep up with lies and deceptions. Al-taqiyya is the 6th pillar of Islam.

Abuamam:
Yes we are going round in circles. The issue is that we have different views on what is believable and what is not, what is likely and what is not. It is a case of both of us having proof for different conclusions. And in so far as there is no rancour, it's all healthy discussion. Of course, "to you is your belief and to me is mine".



Gordon Newby writes in his book 'A History of the Jews of Arabia', that...
'...the inhabitants of Hijaz during Muhammad's time knew portions, at least, of 3 Enoch in association with the Jews. The angels over which Metatron becomes chief are identified in the Enoch traditions as the sons of God, the Bene Elohim, the Watchers, the fallen ones as the causer of the flood. In 1 Enoch, and 4 Ezra, the term Son of God can be applied to the Messiah, but most often it is applied to the righteous men, of whom Jewish tradition holds there to be no more righteous than the ones God elected to translate to heaven alive. It is easy, then, to imagine that among the Jews of the Hijaz who were apparently involved in mystical speculations associated with the merkabah, Ezra, because of the traditions of his translation, because of his piety, and particularly because he was equated with Enoch as the Scribe of God, could be termed one of the Bene Elohim. And, of course, he would fit the description of religious leader (one of the ahbar of the Qur'an 9:31) whom the Jews had exalted.'

Furthermore, Hirschberg proposes in Encyclopaedia Judaica based on the words of Ibn Hazm, namely, that
the 'righteous who live in Yemen believed that 'Uzayr was indeed the son of Allah.' According to other Muslim sources, there were some Yemenite Jews who had converted to Islam who believed that Ezra was the messiah. For Muhammad, Ezra, the apostle (!) of messiah, can be seen in the same light as the Christian saw Jesus, the messiah, the son of Allah. (Encyclopaedia Judaica, Ibid., p. 1108.)

George Sale writes:
'This grievous charge against the Jews, the commentators endeavour to support by telling us, that it is meant of some ancient heterdox Jews, or else of some Jews of Medina; who said so for no other reason, than for that the law being utterly lost and forgotten during the Babylonish captivity, Ezra having been raised to life after he had been dead one hundred years, dictated the whole anew unto the scribes, out of his own memory; at which they greatly marvelled, and declared that he could not have done it, unless he were the son of God. Al-Beidawi adds, that the imputation must be true, because this verse was read to the Jews and they did not contradict it; which they were ready enough to do in other instances.' (The Koran, IX Edition of 1923, London, p. 152.)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallam_ibn_Mishkam

I don't believe in speculations, or wikipedia, that anyone can edit, and modify, to suit an argyment. What I asked you is to present a single proof, from Jewish scripture or tradition, to proove that the Jews ever belief that 'Ezra is the son of God'. If the Jews do not believe that now why will they believe that then.

One of the most conservative religions in the whole world is Judaism, they are consistent in their belief and there is nowhere in the Torah, Injil or Talmud that indicated the Jewish belief that 'ezra is the son of allahh'. Mohammed got it wrong here, like in many cases. The issue is that, as a true muslim, you must belief all what mohammed say, whether true or false.

If you can show me anywhere in Jewish scripture, without googling your way out (mostly Islamic internet sources riddled with lies), where it was claimed 'ezra is the son of allahh' i will become a muslim.

Abuamam:
Jews do regard the concept of the trinity as blasphemous, but I dont know whether they are barred from praying in churches, I don't really think a Jew would even want to; and the prophet (saw) even permitted xtians to pray in his mosque, so I don't really see that as criteria. The evidence is rather in the similarities in what can be gleaned of the old laws and doctrine contained within the existing scriptures.

See what your prophet said in quran 9:30,

The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah ." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are
they deluded?

Your prophet even aknowledge Jesus as the messiah here, thats ok but thats not where I'm going. The concept of the trinity entails that Jesus is the son of God. If you look at the first statement, mohammed said the the Jews said, 'Ezra is the son of allahh'. Thats a big lie. There have never been a time in history that the Jews hold this view, even now.

So if mohammed can get it so wrong here, how do you think his 'revelations' are credible? If however you insist your prophet is right here, can you show me any Jewsish religios document which shows that the Jews hold the view that 'Ezra is the son of allahh'?

tartar9:
even Jews whom they almost worship regard them(xtians) as idolaters.a Jew is even allowed to pray in a mosque and forbidden from a church.

Is it the arab-muslims that have a policy of 'kill Jews at sight' that will allow Jews to worship in their mosque? If any Jew is found is saudi arabia (not even in their mosque), he will be killed. Please modify your lie small. Thanks

Kabba is the centre of worship for pagan arabs. The ancestors of mohammed worshipped in kabba even before mohammed was born and allahh is one of the deities (among 360 idols) worshipped there.

The grand-father and the immediate father of mohammed were not muslims, neither were they monotheist. Mohammed's father was abdullah, meaning 'slave of allahh' hence mohammed's father was names after one of the gods being worshipped in kabba. Just like in yoruba traditional religious system where a son can be named OGUNDELE in referenced to the god of 'ogun', abdullah was named with the belief that their son will be a slave of allahh and follow family traditions.

Islam is a packaged arabian pagan and idol religion standing on the Jewish tradition to gain legitimacy, hence incorporating Jewish characters into the paganistic system. That is why mohammed recycled old Jewish belief systems with slight modifications (which are always lies) to start a religion.

It is only in Islam that people of another religios characters such as Adam, abraham, moses, john, Jesus, noah, zacharaiah, job, abel etc automatically becomes muslim after the mohammed came. Jesus, John the bapstist, Mary, Peter, etc are no longer Jews (according to Islam) but muslims.

If muslims can claim Jews as muslim, without remorse for this studity, why won't they claim abraham built kabba. In the next couple of years i wont be surprised if muslims claim mohammed built the world trade centre.

The 6th pillar of Islam is al-taqiyya, believe muslims\Islam at your own peril. Islam is a pack of lies.

RoyPCain:
@true2god; i advise you to change your name fah. there is no truth in you towards God, except the idol you turn to. if you die on this thing you are on, you will have no defense before the True God whose Messenger's messengers are telling you the truth on nairaland.


All enemies of Muhammad [SA] are enemies of Allah. when Jesus [AS] was the prophet of Allah to be followed, all enemies of Jesus [AS] at that time were enemies of Allah. in fact, in the prophetic office of any prophet [AS] all the enemies of that prophet [AS] were enemies of Allah Who sent the prophet [AS]. all enemies of a prophet [AS] are enemies of all prophets [AS] and Allah their God Who sent them.

abu jahl was not just an enemy, but the worst kind that Allah described his death as to mean more than 1 pharaoh have been killed. the prophet [SA] said abujahl [father of ignorance; curse of Allah is upon him] is the pharaoh of muslim nation. no wife of the prophet [SA] lost her father in badr where the evil leadership of pagan Quraish perished.

the magicians of pharaoh became followers of Moses, similar to the fathers of the wives of the prophet [SA]. they were enemies, not like abujahl. they entered islam at the end of the day at victory over makka. their enmity was not at anytime like that of evil abujahl [lana].


you started out saying sons-in-laws and you turned liar like your father in faith winning souls out of turning tricks. washi [ra] killed hamzah [RA] the beloved muslim uncle of the prophet [SA] in huud. lady hind mutilated his body, ripping him open, chewing on his liver, cutting of his nose, his fingers, toes and making necklace of them. washi [RA] as a muslim in madina was not killed. hind after victory over makka before she became muslim later was not killed. tell me if ali [ra] who the prophet [sa] said you are from me and i am from you will be killed, after he has been told to divorce his wife if he wished to marry the daughter of the man said was the enemy of her father? are you a father, because you will know the manner of fatherhood if there is any soul in you?

as to monogamy, turned polygamy of ali [RA] after fatimah [RA], he copied the prophet [SA] who did the same after khadijah [RA]. while the prophet [SA] was encouraged to remarry and did so many times to foster family bonds and political victory, because the enemies became fewer all the way, while muslims became stronger and larger in number, ali [ra] did his for sure among other reasons; the women wanted to be part of the blessed alul bait [people/family of the prophet [SA]], receiving the honor of blessing, gifts not charity. hassan, hussain [ra] and others practiced the same.

Don't get it twisted, there is no record that Jesus made enemy of anyone, though some believed in him while others do not. So dont compare Jesus' human relation record with mohammed: mohammed made for himsel many enemies hence in constant wars, looting of enemies' property and taking sex slaves (or whta your right hand posseses)

On relationship between mohammed and zainab, it was purely a sugar-mummy relationship. Considering their age difference (zainab was 40 when mohammed was 25), zainab is capable of being a mother to mohammed. Zainab was a successful businesswoman when he married mohammed, who was then poor. Mohammed survived on the wealth of zainab who initially employed mohammed before marrying him. It is only logical that mohammed cannot marry another wife while at the same time living large on the wealth of his wife. No sane woman will accept that.

After the death of zainab and the eventual acquisition of zainab's wealth by mohammed, he was at liberty to take up multi-wives (including numerous sex slaves). The relationship between mohammed and zainab is purely on mohammed's personal interest.

You have to analyse the scenario critically.

Empiree:
So you have PhD in deception. I knew that long time already. Why didnt you say this until now. You now twisted the story again here. Yea, Keep dreaming. You sound nauseated.

The discussion on the page is Fatimah, mohammed and ali. I have no time for monkies yet.

Empiree:
I have your rebuttal for you but what sense does it make talking to the wall?. You guys are really frustrated. I am actually not interested any longer responding to unnecessary comments. It's not unusual of you folks to quote solitary hadith and derive meaning from it.

The same you did about Monkeys stoning another monkeys for adultery which you have no clue until i gave you detailed explanation. I am honestly getting bored with you guys. If you think you can tarnish image of our prophet so that we could reverse, you definitely got it wrong.

You muslims are very humorous and you dont seem to know. You were trying to explain why some monkies where stoning another monkey while a muslim joined in the stoning, does that sound rational? Please don't disgrace Islam furthermore by bringing up this issue.
I wont engage you in this animal comedy show in your Bhukari hadith being used as a religious example. I thought shame won't allow you bring-up this issue again, but I'm wrong.