₦airaland Forum

The quesrion is, was kabbah in place before mohammed era, the ansa is 'yes'.

Was there rivalry among the arabs concerning the supremacy of their idols over the other before mohammed era? Yes.


Were pple kissing and praying to a black stone in makka b4 moh'd era? Yes.


Are pple still doing the same now? Yes.


I leave a sound mind to decipher if Islam is an idol worship or not.

Msgamble: The pro-morsi protester are terrorist who are armed with weapons with sole aim of establishing an islamic state, that is morsi goal b4 been nabbed by army boys..when will arab(muslim) world know peace? From afghan to iraq to tunisia to egypt,yemen,bahrain to syria..blood flowing lyk oceans..let pray 4 our xtain bro among 4 their safety,e no easy to dwell with bad n terrible ppl

The western powers are behind the military. All their condemnations of the crack-down amounts to hypocrisy.


The fact is that no western power wants a govt with an extreme islamic ideology, it's a secirity risk to the west. I support the military here cos Egypt should not have another Taliban-like govt, or another Ayatollah Khomeni.


Even Israel is not confortable with Morsi's recent international policies that affect their interest.

Pastor Kun: I was actually in support of the muslim brotherhood cause I felt it was wrong for the military to remove their elected government. But with this unwarranted aggression towards churches, I can't but withdraw my support for them as they are proving themselves to be a bunch of lunatics.

Ya i agree. With this recent wanton destruction of places of worship, the legitimacy of their course is gradually eroded.


I think they need to keep their fight on a single front by avoid making their struggle a sectarian one. If the coptic xtains retaliate it will surely widen the crisis and expose the minority xtains to more danger.


They need to channel their energy fighting the military and not the xtains.

Recent report had it that pro-morsi supporters,mainly the muslim brotherhood, have destroyed three churches in Egypt. Could it be that the revolution in Egypt is gradually shifting towards religious dimension?
www.vanguardngr.com/2013/08/morsi-supporters-torch-three-churches-in-egypt-reports/

vedaxcool: ok will be waiting, hope it is not 24 hrs job?

lol

vedaxcool: wwhere is t2g? betathings na wa oh!

Im in the office, will educate u wen im free. Regards,

My muslim brodas are so funny. They will come to the west preaching religios freedom, human right, free thought etc, but in their home country they dare not ask of those 'benefits'.

@tbaba1234, he who seeks equity\justice must come with clean hands.

@ tbaba1234, has there been any time the muslim\arab world, or at present, has been unjust to pple? My answer is 'yes'.


History has it that mohammed led many war campaigns to establish Islam in the middle-east unparrarel in history of any knwn prophet of religios leaders, taking prisoners and spoils (including women. To u dis is no big deal.


History has it that mohammed shed more blood than any military camapainer during his era. To u its no big deal.


History has it that Mecca and Medina belongs to the muslims while Jerusalem (dat history all over points to the jews and their prophets) must be shared bw muslims and the jews. To u no big deal.


History has it that mohammed, having attained military supremacy and unopposed (at 50+), married a six yr old small girl. To u, u see norring wrong with ur prophet's action.


History has it that uthman dan fodio led a military campaign to overthrow the traditional authority in hausaland in order to establish the present autocratic\emirate system in the north. To u its normal


Contemporary international event has it that Ahmed ahmedijabab (dnt knw the real spellin) of Iran said and i quote, 'Israel must be wiped out frm the face of the earth' and their was jubilation acros the muslim world for that offensive rhetorics. Which speaks volume of the mind of an average muslim towards the state of Israel.


In Nigeria, a pastors daughter was abducted & adopted against the wishes of her parents, and the girl, advised by the muslim community, to take the father to court in order to 'free' herself from her parents. U see norring wrong.


Pls stop this 'guatanamo' whinnin and clean up all the mess ur religion\prophet had brot upon the world. If Muslims are detan ing pple it would have been far better, but they would rather kill.

golpen: Islam did not reach the northern Nigeria through usman dan fodio. The existence of islam has been in documentation in hausa land since the 9th century, and then became a major religion during the time of mai idris aloma in the 15-16th centuries. The usman dan fodio you talk about came about in the early 19th century, so you need to go back to your school books.

The crux behind the warfare you talked about has been explained by @betathings.

BTW, when you go through your searches of how islam was truly propagated, pls read about how christianity treated people by killing and molesting them while propagating. We may help with some references too.

Kindly note that presently there is Islam in south east and south south but in a very insignificant number.


Take a scenario whereby an 'asari dokubo' decided to ransack the entire south east and south south in order to establish islam fully as an official religion, thats exactly wat uthman dan fodio did. U knw this, so dnt embark on damage control in order to giv the evil actions of uthman dan fodio a good outlook.

golpen: Islam did not reach the northern Nigeria through usman dan fodio. The existence of islam has been in documentation in hausa land since the 9th century, and then became a major religion during the time of mai idris aloma in the 15-16th centuries. The usman dan fodio you talk about came about in the early 19th century, so you need to go back to your school books.

The crux behind the warfare you talked about has been explained by @betathings.

BTW, when you go through your searches of how islam was truly propagated, pls read about how christianity treated people by killing and molesting them while propagating. We may help with some references too.

Kindly note that presently there is Islam in south east and south south but in a very insignificant number.


Take a scenario whereby an 'asari dokubo' decided to ransack the entire south east and south south in order to establish islam fully as an official religion, thats exactly wat uthman dan fodio did. U knw this, so dnt embark on damage control in order to giv the evil actions of uthman dan fodio a good outlook.


Ok history apart, xtains have over 10,000 different denominations and more 20 established biblical interpretation while the muslims have less than 10 denominations and diffrenet koranic interpretations. Hw many times hav u seen a different xtain denomination bombing another cos of their diffrent biblical views. But this happens almost on a daily basis in many Muslim countries, even during ramadan dats just concluded recently, sunnis are still bombin shia muslims in Iraq, Ahmadiyyas cant worship freely in Indonesia cos of fear frm mainstream muslims, let alone xtain minorities.


So u get wat im saying?

@ BetaThings, Islam come to hausaland through jihad led by uthman dan fodio. Go and pick up a simple histroy book on the origin of sokoto caliphate in Nigeria and u will understand.


Uthman dan fodio is a sudanese who came to hausa-land for trade in the early 18th century. As typical of any fulani normad, he came as gentle as dove only to invade the host community unaware and declare an holy war against them, conquering dem and imposing islam afterwards.

An average muslim cant preach and convince anyone with his Islam. Right from the mohammed era in mecca and medina, othoman empire in turkey, the songhai in mali, the uthman dan fodio in northern nigeria and a whole lots of others, there is always violence conversion via war and horse-raid. And remember, the muslims\arabs started slavery in Africa before the europeans joind.

During the dark ages the catholics were like the present muslim when it comes to intolerance, but over ther yrs they have evolved to a more peaceful approach but the muslims hav not.


Even today there is still violent killings and bombings over religios difference among the vry muslims, shia, sunni and ahmadiyya. Check the lastest bombings worldwide on religios issues, it is always among the muslims. Why?

@ BetaThing u said and i quote, 'There is no record that the
Muslims fought anybody before
they introduced Islam in Lagos.
But there is record that the
British bombarded Lagos with
guns and the people of Lagos ran helter-skelter. Houses were
burnt, people were killed by the
British. When it was unbearable,
the Oba of Lagos surrendered.
The British, who were Christians,
forced themselves and their religion on Lagosians.'

Pls can u tell me hw Islam came to the north and the role uthman dan fodio playes in the propagation of islam? And equally tell me me source of ur history u mentioned above.

@ BetaThing u said and i quote, 'There is no record that the
Muslims fought anybody before
they introduced Islam in Lagos.
But there is record that the
British bombarded Lagos with
guns and the people of Lagos ran helter-skelter. Houses were
burnt, people were killed by the
British. When it was unbearable,
the Oba of Lagos surrendered.
The British, who were Christians,
forced themselves and their religion on Lagosians.'

Pls can u tell me hw Islam came to the north and the role uthman dan fodio playes in the propagation of islam?

@RoyPCain, vatican city was carved out of Italy (in 1929) and i can tell u dat some yrs back it was part and parcel of Italy. Vatican city is the smallest country in whole world, 44 hectares and at the centre is st peter basilica which almost covers the entire city, together with the adjoining chapels.

So now, how do u want a mosque to be built inside st peter's basillica. The era of jihadist conquest is gone where conqured holy shrines are converted to Islamic holy shrines e,g the mosque presently at the temple of solomon in east jerusalem was conqured from the jews and turned to a mosques. The palestian now try to use east jerusalem as their future capital which the israelis and the US has vowed to resist, even if it leads to great conflict.

From experience, it is only the muslims dat have transformd old religios relic, be it a christian church, buddist temple, hindu temple to a islamic holy shrine after its conqured. So hw do u xpect the Italians in dis modern era to allow a mosque at st peter's basilica. Ur argument is always of a typical hypocritic muslim.


No xtain will expect a church built at the cite of the black stone dome in mecca where pilgrims are alleged to literaly stone the devil (if i can only assume dat their is a devil to be stone in mecca, which confirmed the presence of the devil there. But i can tell u dat saudi arabia as a country much more bigger dan italy as a whole with many big cities.


Pls dnt compare saudi with vatican city.

[quote author=Moh was a pedo]What do mean? What do you mean we should leave them and they will soon grow?

So if muslims come tomorrow and demand that seun stops christians from posting on this site he should agree with them because he is scared for his life?

YOU NEVER LET TERRORISTS HAVE THE UPPER HAND. They will only keep coming up with more ridiculous demands to control the lives of innocent people.

The solution is simple; muslims can either start a thread to caution other members of this forum from making threats against seun since they claim their religion is peaceful. They should advice their brothers on the need for peaceful interaction and relations to stop the threats.
They should advice their fellow muslims to either be peaceful or move to another site where people don't make offensive comments about islam.


But you know what? Muslims on this site will never speak against the threat, they will never start such threads because they support terrorism and threating the lives of others to have the upper hand.

Forking blood thirsty goons.[/quote]Accept my apology for being a pacifist here. U r right bro...

Never really wanted to comment, but popular opinion suggested that maclatunji is not wanted as a moderator at the religios section since 'Islam for muslim section' has been separated from the mainstream religion section.


It is only wise for the owner of this site to listen to his 'customers', their feelings and wat they want. Thats hw business thrive.


However if he is afraid of his life as a result of Ayatullah's death threats, with some other muslims, then his plan to appease dem is understandable.


I could remember the mohammed home video which led to lose of life of an american diplomat in libya, and world wide riots the muslim world unleashed because of the video. I expected nairalanders to have understood the way an average muslims thinks and their unwanton destruction of lives wen their prophet is 'insulted'.

So i think seun is just trying to save his life and business by appointing a muslim moderator in order to censor wats 'offensive' before he further put his life in danger.


Just my thinking.

@ RoyPCain i like ur intelligence but i hate ur hypocricy. For your information there is presently a mosque in rome, the home and source of the catholics. I can tell u confidently dat if any roman citizen converts to Islam nobody will harm him\her.

And i can tell u sincerely that there is no single cathedaral in saudi arabia and if any muslim converts to xtainity, the law made it mandatroy that such a person should be killed according to koranic injuction. Can u see the difference bw civilization and savagery, tolerance and intolerance? I hope u r aware of the blasphemy law in pakistan that make it a capital offence for anyone to insult prophet mohammed which had led to loss on lives among muslims and minority xtains in pakistan? I hope u r aware that an imam desecrated the koran and hide it on a small xtain girl's bag for her to be charged for blasphemy and executed. If u r familiar with international news this wont be strange to u.

@ BetaThing, can u tell me what could happen to a muslim who converts to christianity in saudi-arabia, the power, source and traditional home of islam? I believe u r not more Islamic and reliosly learned dan the saudi clerics who made apostasy a criminal and a capital offense, taking their judgment from the koran.

Dont u believe that apostasy in saudi arabia is equated with drug courier? I left u muslims to judge with ur God-given concience if this law is morally right or wrong.

To my Igbo brodas\sista, lets continue to pray God to help get a final solution to this problem in such a way it wil escalate into a religios crisis so that the devil will not rejoice. And always keep ur children (duaghters) away frm evil pple.

BetaThings: This is why I don't like discussing issues like this here. Who told you I am Yoruba? I am a Nigerian. I have no reason to apply Saudi law on this matter. Christians have been openly converting Muslims in this country for decades. Saudi law is irrelevant!

I am sorry if u r not Yoruba.

The reason I brought up the issue of saudi arabia here is that all the while many posters said the Igbos will kill their children for convertin to islam which is a lie. Hence i put it to u all that execution of someone who left his\her religion ONLY happen in muslims part of the world, u can disprove dis if i am lying (with facts). And i can engage u in koranic verses that supports execution of apostates in the koran.


So if saudi arabia is applying dis law (apostasy law) it is normal according their teachings\believes. If u dont like that part of the law, i can say u r not a true muslim (or a wahabis muslim, the purest of muslims).


Ya xtains\pastors have been converting muslims to xtain but there is no record where the concerned convertee left his\her parent house to take refuge in a bishop's house (dito a female child). Nevertheless challenges will always come, but the convertee always prevail if he\she had a real conviction for his belief.

BetaThings: What political dimension? 2015? I remember how GEJ addressed traditional rulers when he went to Borno
Please look it up youtube Channelsweb
All GEJ needs to do is ask the IGP to investigate.



I am not insinuating anything. I brought it up that even if such is the case which I would never support, the law enforcement agents cannot force the girl to come out of that place



If the girl was truly kidnapped, we know what the media, the Human rights people (who besieged the Senate recently) would have done!



People who convert might not be physically harmed. But they can be psychologically harmed
Infact this girl now has some psychological baggage. People can be ostracised and treated in a manner that they will live to regret



This is why I don't like discussing issues like this here. Who told you I am Yoruba? I am a Nigerian. I have no reason to apply Saudi law on this matter. Christians have been openly converting Muslims in this country for decades. Saudi law is irrelevant!

I admire ur defense if only its borne out of a sincere mind, which i suspected otherwise.

I must tell u dat u cannot rule out this issue taking political toll if GEJ gets directly involved. Traditional ruler, unlike here in the south, is highly revered in the north. They value\fear d sultan of sokoto than the gov of sokoto state (or even Jonathan). I knw u fully understand dis.


The issue of human right abuse is a strange language in the north. An average northerner can\will never protest a human right abuse. Ok r u xpecting the girl's parent to carry placards in bida and start protesting. U will surely see an immediate chain\effect which no one will like to see. So thats y diplomacy is still being used to ensure a peaceful resolution.


I dnt think u can fully represent mind of the lady if she comes back to her parent, as in the psychological depression. Initially u were talkin about physical harm now u hav softened it to psychological. I believe if the emir is as flexible as u r this issue would hav been settled.

BetaThings: Again I say no matter how powerful, the Etsu is not more powerful than the president who is a close buddy of CAN president
Let the dad, CAN and others report to the police. Is it really that difficult? Let us hear the police version!
An adult does not need to transferred to law enforcement agent as an adult even if I have eloped with a lover



I don't want to drag personalities into this.
President Jonathan has never spent 4hours attending a function organised by or for Tinubu
But president Jonathan spent 4hours at Pastor Oritsejafor's event last year



Exoneration was about "is the Etsu keeping the girl against her will?" CAN said "No, Etsu did not kidnap the girl"
And you have ignored (I should say conveniently) the report by a fellow Igbo convertee who said she spoke with the girl and reported that the girl is acting in free will



A rich Igbo family can do really terrible things to their daughter and people who can squeal will be paid handsomely to keep quiet. People have been known to forcibly marry off their daughter to somebody she does not like because the girl who tries to convert and elope with a guy
This can happen in every part of Nigeria!

Religion is a much more touchy thing in Igboland than amongst the Yorubas
And in these days of BH, it will be much more stigmatised
I can show you the thread on NL where Igbos promise to deal with their brethren who convert. They may not infact do the worst things they promise, but the person will have a very very hostile treatment.



And the girl's family allegation that she was kidnapped is true? And she could not have told the fellow Igbo lady who phoned her to "please send people to rescue me?"
How many kidnap victims are allowed to use the phone and describe the location of where they are being held?



I am a Muslim but you have to realise that that what you describe is not the recommended reaction by Muslims
I would recommend that if they sincerely believe that this is a kidnap case, they should petition the IG
and I can assure you that these folks are much more enligtened about the law and procedures than me anyway

@ BetaThings, the Northerners fear\respect their emirs than any president, even Obama. The British understands this better dats y the indirect system workd perfectly there. I tell u this matter will take a political dimension if there is direct intervention by GEJ, even GEJ advised the lady be kept at the Niger state gov house which the emir refused.

Of course a lady can elope with her lover, are u insinuating that that might be the case here? It seems both of us are reasoning alike here. But y must the person of the emir, a respect custodian of islamic culture be involved. I dont think islam sanctiond a lady eloping with a boy\manfriend.


There is no any official statement frm CAN dat exonorated the emir, wat CAN said was that they now understand wat happen better. This is where the word 'exonoration' initially came in. However wen CAN later discoverd dat the emir had double-crossed, they went to the media to release an official statement denying exonorating the emir. Frm CAN's language, they said they suspected the girl acting under certian influence (or bluntly said charmed) at the palace. The refusal of the emir to honour the agreement at the last meetin only solidified CAN'S suspicion on the intent of the emir.

And i can confidently tell u dat it had never been on the record dat the Igbos harm anyone who converts to Islam. If there is anything like dat at all it can be only be found in Islamic countries like Saudi arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc where there exist a law requiring an apostate muslim to be put to death. My brother, i can tell u confidently dat the reward of any muslim that changes his\religion in saudi arabia is death. It is even in the constitution.

U might be a Yoruba\Nigerian muslim and u may knw dis apostate\blasphemy law in saudi.

U can google it.

@ RoyPCain, u mean a lady who 'converted' to Islam should reject her parents who had been with her, nurse her, groomed her and spent their life earnings on her should leave her cos she's now 26? If someone converts to Islam is etsu nupe's palace the place the person must practice?

Y cant etsu nupe allow the girl to speak to the public in an open media (like live TV PROG) for all to view her side of the story , y the secret interviews to be circulated to the media houses? The father in his interview said the girl had accepted to go home only for two of the emir's body guards to drag her back to the palace, insisting that its only the emir that can give order for the girl to leave the palace. When has the emir become the chief security officer of the state? If a life is 'threatend', in a civilized environment, i think the best place to seek redress is through the state security apparatus which is not in dis case.

Religions is a vry sensitive issue in Nigeria, u will agree with me. I will ask u one simple question, if it's an Igbo chief dat 'accomodates' an hausa lady for this long without the approval of her parent wat do u think might have happend by now? Do u think that the lady's parents will say she is 26 and let go , or would hav started killing Igbos at sight? Dont be a hypocrite by guy.

I pray one day u hav a daughter and u dnt face this trauma the parents are presently facing.

BetaThings: Is the girl was kidnapped, should the police not have been invited?
Should it be the subject religious blackmail by CAN president?



But CAN exonerated the Emir, did they not?
Were they forced too?



Please stuff happens! Not every act of severe intimidation by parents are reported

If the girl was not technically kidnapped, y cant dey transfer the lady to law enforcement agaent, y take laws into ur hand cos ur a powerful person in the society. If the girl were to be Tinubu's daughter do u think the emir will still have the gut to keep her in his custody?

Can 'exonoration' of the emir was based on the fact they tot emir wil keep to the agreement by transfering the girl to the gov lodge as agreed which he didnt later fulfil hence CAN has evry right to be suspicios of the emir's ulterior motive. U need to understand that diplomatic languages must be used in negotiations like dis, u dnt expect CAN to start accusing the emir while they make plea to hav a girl back frm his custody.


And remember it had never been reported in history that the Igbos kill cos of religion nor have any member of any Igbo family lost his\her life for switchin religion. The allegation of threat was made to tighten the rope that separate the family frm the girl.

If i may ask, if an Igbo chief keep custody of a fulani girl under any circunstance dnt u think dat there would have been killling of Igbos in the north. Dnt talk as if u live in Germany and not a Nigerian.

This pastor is never a serios one at all. He might even invite rick ross for a concert in his church if he is not shown the way out.

RoyPCain: i do all tribes. but she has to be legal age. 18 with correct mind of 28. i dont mind her quality of innocence to be as pure as that of a 6 year when when she is 26 or 36, because Jesus our mutual master said let little child come to me. no? what do you mean by 'u try'?

If u understand hadith very well u will knw dat ur prophet was engaged to a six year old small girl and had se.x with her at 9.

If im wrong u can shed more light cos i cant imagine hw a man of 50+ can go for a girl of 6. Something is surely wrong with dat arrangement unless that part of hadith is wrong.

Danhumprey: Racism!!! When would it end

Only wen we africans start to develop technologically and less dependent on the whites for anything.

@ RoyPCain, also note that on the 1st of August, the sharia court has vacated order that kept the young lady under the custody of the emir and yet the emir did not want the lady to go. As a civilized fellow u will agree with me that the emir's action here is vry wrong unless u r of the opinion that 'emirs can do no wrong'.

The same sharia court that granted the emir the custody in the first place had rescinded it earlier decision on the matter in order for peace to reign. U will agree with me that the emir is not being fair here to the family of the lady and a gross misuse of power.

If, God forbid, the girl dies at emir's custody wat do u think could happen?