₦airaland Forum

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=306471.msg4316898#msg4316898 date=1249669782]Hi Tudor,

These are my views on the issue you raised

No, a foetus is not like any other somatic  cell or even a gamete. Neither sperm or egg can develop to a foetus. A fertilized egg is not a body tissue for it contains the entire genetic program which if not prevented from expression results in the birth of a child. Egg and sperm are gametes but once a fertilization takes place, constitute the starting point of[b] biological life.[/b][/quote]Biological life,hmmmm. . . . . I would hold the view that the sperm and ovum have biological life in the first place, they perform the entire characteristics of living things as do other cells.
The union of the two cells forms the embryo. The genetic program for the development into a child as contained in the embryo comes from these two cells it doesn't just magically appear.
So again if i wanted to use your logic i'd hold that life starts from the formation of the sperm and ovum.

There is no point regulating what one does not understand. Gene therapy with respect to humans is still at its infancy. What scientists are offering are simply possibilities. There is not yet experimental evidence to show that they will work as happened with vaccines. Sure, a virus can engineered as a bioweapon but atleast we  understand how the virus or  other biological agents work, and thus can re-engineer an anti-bioweapon.

I will hold that understanding comes from experimentation and exploration.
How would you expect us to know of the nature of viruses if not from research conducted by experiments.
There was no scientific evidence either that vaccination would work. It took putting the hypothesis to work by experimentation and observation.

No, it is not. Doctors will only consider abortion to save the life of the mother when there are no other alternatives. Their are alternatives to embryonic stem cells. You can use adult stem cells. There are alternatives to programing an embryo to become a spare part workshop for human parts. You can harvest adult stem cells from the sick person and program it to mature into the required organ replacement.

If it were that easy, you wouldn't have them experimenting with embryonic stem cells. Clearly the Adult stem cells are much more difficult to work with or manipulate. I even read somewhere that studying embryonic stem cells holds the key to how we can use adult stem cells because obviously the adult cells are products of the embryonic stem cells.

A sperm cell and an egg does not make us for neither on its own will develope into a baby. It is the union of these two gametes that starts our biological life. I do not see why you cannot see the difference between an egg, a sperm and a ferilized egg. Stay blessed.

Pls refer to my earlier reply as regards this.

m_nwankwo pls allow me to make a few notes[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=306471.msg4316495#msg4316495 date=1249666541]Hi Chris. I am fine over here. The summer here is unusually hot. I guess we enjoy it while it lasts. I do not see a gray area that can be stretched. People clamouring for designer babies are not doing so to save the life of the mother. I also think that because a pregnant woman is not counted as two during election is not relevant in my view to the topic. Aferall, it is the mother that votes, not the baby. My point is that fertilization of an egg by a sperm starts a stupendous process that leads to the birth of a child. I do not see a separation between fertilization, embryo, a child, a tenager or an old man. The same life force or spirit is in all of them.[/quote]These are your spiritual convictions and you're entitled to them

I am yet to see any logical or scientific evidence to show that a foetus is not alife in a way similar to that of a child, a tenageer, an adult or an old man.

A foetus is alive quite all right but it's the same way a single cell is alive there's no difference.
Going by your argument one can say throwing away sperms is throwing children too.
The main issue here should be when does a collection of tissues become an individual and that to me is after one is born.

I do not think that most people understand the implication of selecting genetic traits as it suits our desires. They are presented with the beautiful picture that it can help cure hereditary diseases but the are not told that it can also be used to create zombie humans, wipe out an ethnic or racial group etc.

Many other discoveries have their potentially dangerous uses. Vaccines could be used as a bio weapon too to wipe out races, nuclear physics inaddition to providing energy can be used for atomic bombs- That didn't stop us from exploiting them, did it?
It all boils down to regulation as if we always pre-consider the potential dangers of each discovery most useful discoveries will never be made

Why do we need to kill a foetus to cure a disease or genetically engineer an embryo to produce spare body parts for other human beings?

I See this in the same light as abortion to save the life of a mother. It's all the same sacrifice.

The bottom line is that if one does not consider a foetus a human body, then one can do whatever one likes. The paradox is that each of us started our physical journey with conception and yet we want to deny this starting process as not having anything to do with us. Stay blessed.

One can go back and say we started our physical journey with the formation of the sperm cell and ovum afterall we're made up of both components- Are we also wrong in denying this starting point as having anything to do with us?

bawomolo:
Just leave as jagunlabi said.


why not use it an emergency tissue paper?

Good suggestion.
I'll wait till i get such emergency.

Krayola2:
I know a lot of stuff is preached in naija about demon possession and spiritual attacks and spiritual warfare etc etc etc. The spirits even have names. Can someone please tell me what a "familiar sprirt" is, what it does, how it was identified and named, what bible verses refer to this spirit(s), and any other spirit you might be familiar (no pun intended) with. Are there even any others?

Thank u. 


Tudor abeg soffly soffly 

Haba. . .wetin you bin expect say i go do. . .raise hell?

papa giddy:
Tudor
      piss on Quran??
                             
                             its death straight!!

death ke?
I have a koran mailed to me by one crazy muslim.
I piss on it from time to time.

constantk:
@Tudor

There is a need to clarify some issues as silence will imply consent to evil thoughts being expressed.

Thats funny coz i feel exact same obligation to speak up against the evils of fake men of god like adeboye.
Silence on my part would imply consent of which i do not.

For all those who know their God the Bible says such shall be strong and they shall do exploits which is what the life of Daddy GO has exemplified and for this man to be trampled upon i count it to be a great disservice if i remain silent.

Yes indeed. But isn't it wierd that it's only Adeboye that is doing exploits with peoples money why the members are generally poor and wretched.

I really dont know about any other God but I know the God that created all things that some may term their god whether sukuraja or whatever you might call its name.

Good for you!

I am appaled by your attitude if at all you are a man I will consider you a boy for calling your father's mate a criminal without any form of self respect or dignity.

I don't know about you but i derive self respect and dignity for speaking up against theives and liars like adeboye. It's the right thing to do.

it is important that your life right now is a reflection of the evil that you have professed with your mouth if not sooner than later nemesis will catch up with you.

Yes. As soon as it catches up with daddy 419 G.O. First.

I stand by the truth, and i say that anyone that speaks evil against his fellow brother without a need or reason is guilty of death not bodily but total seperation from the Lord God Almighty. I wish you will stop this accusation against this man of God.

I also stand by the truth.
I don't respect pseudo men of god who's only mission in life is to get rich at the expense of poor people.

.The kingdom of God is at handa, perilious times are here,  men will speak evil about God and His servants, they shall be lovers of themselves, liars, fornicators, adulterers and such like.

We've been hearing this same old story for milleniums.

repent of your evil ways and come to Christ Jesus.

Tell adeboye to repent first.

You Are Cordially Invited to the 57th Annual Convention of RCCG
God bless you as you come.  -  , Hope of Glory
I know that very soon you shall be used to propagate the Kingdom of God so break away from every evil - thoughts, expressions and deed.
God bless you

I'm not interested in coming to contribute funds for adeboyes jet maintainance. Thank you.

Piss on the quaran.

timmy7:
What's ur problem sef? Must d church come out and explain every strategies put in place to manage some situations around them?

They don't need to explain. We already know the strategy and it involves taxing people who want to urinate. Even coporations do not charge customers who use their toilet but daddy idiot would gladly collect money from poor people who came to camp in the first place to pray for riches- what a thief!

Do u know if gadaffi operators r consulted to solve toilet problem at that token,and why do u base ur conclusion on a response of ''a church worker'' who might not know d modalities in place,

So now the church worker whose Job it is to manage and collect toilet tax doesn't know the modalities of the place- you clowns make me laugh with your ridiculous excuses.

oh boy suffre suffre 4 this ur hate campaign o,

This is no hate campaign but merely speaking up against a holy criminal who in the eyes of you people can do no wrong.

apparently u've not beena to d redeemption camp that's why u can make an unsubstantiated comparison on whatever attendance at canaanland with rccg convention.

Obviously you've never been to a shiloh convention to hastily dismiss the crowd capacity during such conventions. Shiloh is as big if not bigger than RCCG convention!

And oh, at shiloh, people don't shit in the bush there's enough toilet facilities for everyone and not a dime is collected as toll fee

Obviously the church doesnt want shotputting and bushing

Even with the payment regime are people not still shotputting?
Didn't you do economics in high school,  infact majority of people will go for the cheaper option when confronted with price.

The consequence of this criminal tax is the toilets are free-er, tell me where did the queue disappear to if not to the bush. . . .AdeJALE is just out to make a quick buck.

i had d opportunity of paying 10 naira or 20 naira to ''pupu'' during my orientation camp in d east,i would av enjoyed my 3wks wella because d ratio of corpers to toilets is ridiculous and every bush,nooks and crannies around d camp were bombed beyond expectation this the church wouldnt like.

How does compulsorily taxing the church members who wanna shit help solve the problem. People still shit in the bush no matter what.

That you can afford to pay the 20 naira per piss is good but over 80% of nigerians live on less than $1 a day.
If they're paying 20 naira each time they wanna shit how'd you expect them to survive?

Lwandle:
Tsvangirayi had to see for himself the double standards and deceit his masters employ when they try to divide and rule a people.
They promised him US$10billion and to lift sanctions to resuscitate the economy once MDC came into power.

I thought you said the economy was not dead
How can you resuscisate something that isn't dead. Mugabe killed the economy while you're holding the same WEST mugabe hates to task to to help "resuscitate" your dead economy. How hypocritical!

So he went to ask them to fullfill their promises since MDC was now part of the gvt!

He told them there were no more farm invasions nomore political violence or prisoners Zimbabweans had decided to come together to work as one and that there was no longer any need for them to maintain their destructive sanctions!

LIE! LIES! LIES! LIES! LIES!
Morgan even threatened to pull out of the power sharing deal on account of violence against opposition strongholds and supporters. MDC leaders like Tendai beatie were even facing trials. Stop lying!
Farm invasions by Zanu-pf touts are still the norm. . .NO WHERE DID MORGAN TSVANGARI SAY ALL WAS WELL IN ZIMBABWE.
Everybody with eyes can virtually see the power sharing govt just hangs by a thread.

Instead he learnt a valuable lesson that WHITEMAN speaks with a forked tongue lol!
He instead was disrespected belittled told he was not serious and that sanctions would remain untill certain benchmarks were met!

Were the benchmarks met?
You think the west are idiots?
Shameless mugabe would do ANYTHING to get his hands on western money- has he no self dignity?
He claims the west are demons yet he sends morgan with a beggars bowl to go beg for money.
It's quite evident he agreed to the unity govt because of the so called $10bn promise. The old fool was salivating thinking the money will just drop free so he can import more guns from china.

If he's not ready to stop his human right violations, NO CANDY FOR THE DOG.

About £200 million was given not to the gvt but to the NGOs to continue with their efforts to undermine the new unity gvt.

Now you accept there are NGO's. You are a confused man!
Bending over backwards to lie would make you dizzy.

Ofcourse the money was given to NGO's and it's to help the poor zimbabwean people directly. The money cannot be entrusted to the old tyrant mugabe. . He'll probably import weapons and celebrate another flamboyant birthday party at the expense of ordinary zimbabweans.
Tell mugabe to keep lusting and salivating, the money will NEVER enter his hands!

Zimbabwe has been using international currencies mainly US$ SARand Botswana Pula since february Tudor. The Zimdollar has not been in use for a good 6months and you didnt even know about it, so all those fantastic figures you keep spitting out are nomore except in cloud cuckooland where you reside.

Aren't you shameless?
You can open your mouth and boldly declare that a sovereign nation is using the currencies of other countries abandoning it's own without burying your head in shame? What does that say of mugabe and zimbabwe?
Only a near failed state would be in such a position. Full marks to mugabe and his economic management skills!
Besides how many zimbabweans can even afford the dollar?
And shut it! Inflation is still through the roof in zimbabwe!

In a previous post I said they had destroyed our currency but i bet you didnt even understand what I meant.

Thats true, i didn't understand and it's because I'M ALLERGIC TO LIES, BULLSHIT AND PROPAGANDA!
Mugabe screwed the economy and he should take full responsibility for his stupidity!

As it is we had a bumper bumper harvest and things are looking up!

Again where is the bumper harvest?
Zimbabweans are starving and you're declaring bumper harvest- or do you mean harvest of dead bodies?

The diamond that is Zimbabwe has not lost its lustre.

No matter how tyrants like zimbabwe try to ruin our continent, they'll all die one day and mama africa will always outlive them. . .
Tell mugabe to see what happened to Omar Bongo, you cannot rule 4ever! Thank goodness mugabe will die soon!

So pliz stop decieving yourself oh and by the way I AM ZIMBABWEAN!

I wonder who you think you're deceiving. YOU ARE NO ZIMBABWEAN!
Just some spineless coward impersonating one on NL so you can spend your anti-western lies. We see right through you!

BTW when are you going to impersonate mugabe himself,heh?

Very funny!
Does that change the fact that adeboye and oyedepo are common crooks?

Another flimpsy excuse!
The article clearly states a church worker was approached and he said its ORDER FROM ABOVE. He didn't say it was a private business- stop lying for daddy crook!

If people are queing to use toilets and then?
Have you ever been to canaan land during shiloh when over 250,000 are in attendance. Toilets abound and we don't have toll fee neither do they have long queues like you're dishonestly trying to claim.

Daddy G.O 419 is a greedy old thief. At age 62 he still wants to fleece more money from people. I think his kleptomania is genetic!

Ofcourse every new discovery starts out for the rich. In this age of commercialisation everything starts out expensive in order to recoup investments made in the research. But with time it will be available for everyone.

The only solution is for the government to fund such research.

Lwandle:
Tudor you need to read the latest news not news from 3years ago!
Tsvangirayi is now Prime Minister and we have a unity gvt.
All those fantastic figures you keep mentioning are a thing of the past!
We have just had a bumper harvest without your beloved white farmers inflation is down to single digits everything is on the UP!
We are forging ahead with life and consolidating our gains!
NGOs and charities are everywhere including in your beloved WEST crying misery to get funds!
You know nothing about Japan unfortunately for you!
As Mugabe said of Obasanjo I cannot condemn you my brother!

LIES! LIES! LIES! LIES!


Morgan tsvangarai is prime minister yet opposition supporters are still being killed harassed and imprisoned.


What gains are you consolidating?
Morgan tsvangarai recently is going around begging for aid for the destroyed economy.Theres still hyper inflation in zimbabwe and the 20,000,000 notes still exist. If you don't need help why is mugabe allowing his prime minister beg the west for money?

What a dirty old hypocrite that idiot is.

Where is the bumper harvest you liar. Zimbabweans are starving and you're claiming bumber harvest- the only harvest in zimbabwe is a bumper harvest of bullets!

NGO's and charities aren't in nigeria distributing relief materials to majority of our population like we're in a war or disaster zone.
If there is no misery in zimbabwe why are they there in the first place?


Mugabe couldn't criticize obasanjo because he knew he had no moral right. He felt guilt and shame and rightly so.

Who do you think you're deceiving?Take your lies to the goats abeg!

Chrisbenogor:
How body?

Mehn i'm cool. . .work is really hectic these days. How are you?

LOL there is no escaping this one oh bro, tell me if you will really do it,

I will do it absolutely.

what ethical issues will you go through, surely even if you do not believe in God what is your stance on issues such as right to life and all that.

You have no right to life until you're alive. Designer babier violate no "right to life principles"-

Because IVF is going to be used and loads of fertilized embryos would be destroyed, do you have any objections at all?

A fertilized embryo is of no difference than any other living cell. You aint alive until you're born. Till then you're just a bunch of tissues like a tumour.

how would the earth look like to you where you can make your child as fast a usain bolt with skills like lionel messi and the body of danny shittu?  

So wonderful!
We should all strive for perfection and since God is so incompetent we might as well do it for him.
Imagine a world without birth defects and diseases, everyone with superior intelligence where people would be smart enough to seek for solutions to their problems rather than waiting for a magician to come from above.

That would be derailing and it's against the rules. . . .wouldn't want me to be banned again, would you?

Why was noetic2 banned. . .spam bot?

So?
Nigerians at home are being beaten and imprisoned by the police and you want the govt to be worried about a pregnant drug dealer in laos who immaculately conceived?
.Tomorrow she'll claim her son is the messiah.

Blah blah blah.
If you want to know the difference it would make start another thread. . . .but for now, answer the damn question.

BTW what is it with the new noetic3 i.d?

One deluded man forcing another lunatic to follow his own delusions. . .what is this world coming to?

^^
Why am i not suprised?

rich_john the way these folks twist the scriptures to make excuses for their god is shocking to say the least. Thats why they keep deceiving the gullible minds.

[quote author=Aloy_Emeka link=topic=306408.msg4312780#msg4312780 date=1249605055]I think its wrong to charge for toilet. It's better they collect money for parking than toilet because the latter is a necessity. If every Redeem parish in the world contributes N10,000 each, it will foot the toilet bill at the convention. Bad management if i must say. It's not daddy's fault because he may not know about it.[/quote]You people keep making excuse for daddy 419 G.O. The foolish man will kill and rape a ten year old boy and you folks will say ;It's not daddy's fault he didn't know about it"

I'm sure its the same way daddy criminal didn't know when a private jet just fell from heaven onto his laps, right? I laugh in jet sounds!

Lwandle:
Tudor you amaze me please dont be shallow and naive lol,so whilst you cannot google anything you actually expect others to google?

Shallow and naive is an euphemism for refusing to believe the cheap lies of dictators like mugabe, right?

I know enough about Japan post WW2 to tell you categorically that they were given massive help in their rebuilding efforts so on that one go bullshit someone else,

Yes they were given efforts but before then they had been under economic santions for years and no point did we see 2000% inflation.
Even the SA arpatheid regime were sanctioned yet at no point did we see a massive collapse of the economy - There is NO excuse for muga-idiot. His economic policies have failed! HE IS A FAILURE!

I have just returned from Zimbabwe and was shocked at the number of Nigerians living there now especially in Harare because of them prices of houses are going through the roof!

Look how you shamefully embarass and disgrace yourself.
Thats the problem with people and multiple ID's. . . .you just spew lies to support your position. YOU ARE NOT A ZIMBABWEAN but Afam or Beaf impersonating one- from the childishness of your prank i'd go with Beaf.

Who in hell buys a house for US$380,000.00 in a failed state?

Who else but Mugabe the tyrant.

As for what you think you know well who am I to argue with you and your delusions??

Go find some slowpoke you can feed your mugabe propaganda to.

Your[b] masters[/b] will not have an ORANGE, BLUE, RED or whatever colour revolution to topple an elected gvt in Zimbabwe.

Classic zanu-pf bull.
Always pushing forward neo-colonialist conspiracy theories as an excuse for their failures- we are not buying and so do ordinary zimbabweans!
Is it my "masters" that is to plant food for zimbabwe? Are the "masters" the ones beating,imprisoning and harassing morgan tsvangarai and other opposition supporters?
I guess it's also the "masters" that maim and kill zimbabweans as well as other human rights violations?
I'm quite sure it's the masters that converted mugabe into a slowpoke too.

If in this day and age you think and believe 1 man can destroy an entire economy on his own in 10yrs after managing it excellently for the previous 20 then you are for sure living in cloud cuckooland.

This is pure ignorance typical of all mugabe supporters.
I guess you've never heard of financial meltdowns.
It only takes ONE dictatorial slowpoke to screw up an economy. The ease and finesse with which mugabe executed his shows him to be a SUPER DUNCE.

The Zimbabwean economy is being indigenized completely and absolutely your masters can scream rant and rave all they want but we are a different breed of African we will not bend over for them ever!

I'm sure by indigenized you mean making hunger and poverty industries right?
Or making custom 20,000,000,000 dollar notes with over 1000% inflation. - i must say, that is pretty indigenous to zimbabwe- kudos to mugabe!

We will be in control of our resources and we will trade with whom we want and it will be on our terms, terms that benefit US first and foremost before anyone else! This is not an event but a process and with due diligence and hardwork we will surely succeed!

I'm sure by "trade" you mean importing billions in weapons while ordinary zimbabweans starve and by US you mean mugabe and his zanu-pf cronies, right?. Good that we're clear.

And yes they are succeeding. He who holds the gun has the power. Mugabe rules by the gun, well done to him!

Asa for those NGOs of yours well they survive on misery dont they? Thats how they get their funding so let them do what they do.

Thanks for admitting there's mass misery in zimbabwe afterall why would there be massive NGO presence like they're in a war refugee camp.
The presence of vultures in the vicinity signifies a dead decaying corpse!

Good question.
Any answer please?

Personally i think it's the doctrine of hypocrisy- no other religion has this as much as christianity.

If they come in religious-crap-impermeability models, i'd gladly take it.

Knowledge never hurts. So drop your deluded opinion and go.

mactao:
Tudor, you're getting too heated up, dramatic, insulting. RELAX.

It's usually the norm with christians that when the truth about their wicked god is exposed they label it as insults. . .a deluded man hardly knows he's deluded.

Because there's such a thing as spiritual growth.If all Christians were on the same level spiritually then we wouldn't need to go to Church and sit and listen to pastors preach to us.[/b]Did you notice when Jesus said:
[b]Matthew 17:21Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
In other words, the Christian that commits himself to regular prayer and fasting would be at an advanced level when compared to the Christian who just goes to Church and comes back home and doesn't have any time for his personal spiritual growth.

Again this sounds absolutely lame. That family had been praying to god for YEARS and it's stated that they had a bible study group where they studied the word of god regularly. "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word" - the parents obviously heard the word regularly and i'm sure that pretty much gave them the confidence and faith to deny the little child treatment- but yet again god proved that he's no powerful than an earthworm.

Do you expect someone who just became born again to raise the dead? Definitely not.He'd still have growth to do.

And why not?
Jesus said all you need is to have faith and you'll move mountains. This "spiritual growth" crap is just an excuse given for the inability of christians to perform miracles.

I never said the family was hiding something. I was just saying it's possible.

Is it also possible that your god is ineffective and powerless?

The fact that you don't believe in the Bible doesn't mean that those who do are deluded. No.

Delusion is absolute belief inspite of no evidence. There's no evidence for all the miraculous claims in the bible from creation to the noah's flood, right to the miracles and resurrection of jesus. NO EVIDENCE.
Belief in such is DELUSION.

Your yardstick for measuring lies as far as religion is concerned is your own belief. Hardly reliable.

My yardstick is REALITY and it's pretty reliable.
Christians aren't raising the dead like jesus promised, how many serpents have you picked up and not been bitten, when last did you walk on water or turn it into wine - all these are some of the ridiculous promises of the lying jesus yet reality puts a hole in all this.

Here's my point - assuming they had sin in them, then they wouldn't qualify for the ministry of angels. The first verse I quoted said that angels associate with people who fear God. The second one said that angels listen to the voice of the word of God. The third one showed us that angels are servants of God, just like Christians are on earth.  Now, fear of God and the word of God are two things that can hardly be found in a sinner. So when the conditions of their master aren't met, angels can't move an inch.

To excuse the laziness of your god you resort to assuming the family has sin- ha!
This whole mumbo jumbo about the angels appearing to children of god is rubbish.
Angels appeared to Balaam, esau and laban yet all these people were not in good terms with the lord. An angel even appeared to Hagar the egyptian slave of abraham in the desert- so stop lying for jesus.
God in his wickedness could not send one to go warn this parents, such ministrations shouldn't even take 1 second yet god is still so selfish.

As per Joseph, the Bible clearly states in Matthew 1:19 that Joseph was a just man.

Last time i checked the parents of this little child are men and not elves.

There's a difference between saying something is possible and saying that it's true.

Saying something is a possibility gives you a fail safe option you can always fall back on- how lazy is that?

Faith is not just in action. Faith is from the inside. In fact, it is faith that produces the actions. You see, some people copy actions, without having the faith behind it. So when you just do things without the faith on the inside, then you might as well not do anything. I AM NOT SAYING THAT IS THE CASE WITH THIS FAMILY!.

The family's action signify faith.Faith is your action i.e take a step of faith- stop lying!
I've been in a faith ministry church for decades at least i grabbed that point.
By the action of this family it shows they have faith. If they didn't they would take the kid to a hospital afterall it's cheap. Nobody gambles with the life of their child without believing wholly in their course of action.

Have you ever considered that maybe Jesus' reference to the mustard seed wasn't physical? It wasn't in terms of size? Please try and think along that line. Maybe it was in reference to what comes out of a mustard seed. Faith can't be quantified physically, so it's not possible that Jesus meant it physically.

What does this have to do with anything?
You measure your faith by the actions and by the actions of this family they had mountain size faith.

I wonder what I did to deserve such insults.Also, if it makes any difference to you,you should know that I don't drink.

I didn't insult you, i spoke the truth. And yes you are drunk- drunk with the lies of jesus.

Lwandle:
Tudor you are a case study all on your own lol!

Pray tell what sanctions was Japan under after WW11 list them here for US please.

Use google please, it's free!

Give me a link to a video showing skeletal Zimbabweans like we saw in Ethiopa and Sudan in the 80s and 90s.

I can give you better. . . .Go to zimbabwe and you'll see them LIVE.

As for people fleeing to SA, UK, USA, CANADA, AUSTRALIA etc  and elsewhere did they look like they were skeletal? Do not confuse people leaving for economic reasons with mass starvation Tudor.

Yes some where skeletal and would have died long ago had it not been for the NGO's and charities feeding them.

People will say whatever they need too as long as it benefits their intentions and gets them the right to stay wherever.

The same way zanu-pf propaganda tools will say anything as long as it guarantees food on their table, right?

What is enemployment? how do you define and quantify it? does it include people self employed? show me stats of who employs these 20% that are working since our economy is nomore?

What is the meaning of all these?

Whilst you at it give us a comparative analysis with lets say Nigeria?

Minimum wage and the economy of nigeria are a 100 times better than mugabes personal hell hole called zimbabwe

60% of our population is rural based and survive on subsistence farming so they are gainfully employed working for themselves!

They survive on subsistence farming yet hunger reigns supreme in zimbabwe, NGO's supply food like they in a war zone. Tell me, where does all the so called products of subsistence farming go?

Mind you they also form the bed-rock of Mugabes support and are the ones who benefited greatly from the land reform.

By they you mean mugabe's cronies and political friends right?
You're quite right that they form the bedrock of his support thats why they can mobilize militia and touts to go harass and intimidate opposition supporters as well as ordinary zimbabweans.

They are not dependent on the economy for survival and dont need to buy bread etc that town based people like you need!

This is the absolute crap mugabe spins to justify his screwing up of the economy - "Oh i can ruin the economy because zimbabweans don't need it to survive"
"The price of common bread can be 200million since zimbabweans don't eat it" - this is just a lie the old lunatic and his followers tell themselves thinking anyone is listening. Well, we are not!

They are the sole reason why all the regime change tactics have failed dismally and why Mugabe keeps on winning elections!

No the reason is mugabe keeps on rigging and rigging!
Intimidating zimbabweans while imprisoning opposition politicians and supporters. We all saw the tribulations of morgan tsvangarai before the elections, police and military beat him up several times even to hospitalization, his passport seized and even detentions. - we all SAW IT! thank goodness for the media!

Go to Harare and see how many of your fellow countrymen are there Tudor dont knock me or swear at me! Harare is overflowing with Nigerians. It would seem even in our state they would much rather be in Zimbabwe then in their own beloved country!

Keep deluding yourself that you're seeing nigerians - like i said this is just cheap ridiculous mugabe propaganda!
There are NO Nigerians in zimbabwe take a poll here on nairaland and see how many would like to go to that shit state.

keep deluding yourself!

God bless those Chinese they told America and Britain to mess off long time ago where Zimbabwe was concerned, at least they pay for the resources they get whether it be in cash or kind lol!

Oh so you trade with the chinese, heh?
What then is mugabes excuse for the crumbled economy and hyper-inflation?
China has pretty much everything zims need yet zimbabwes economy is still dead.

It means mugabe has no excuse whatsoever and the old tyrannical idiot is to blame for the dead economy!

Fly please lend some people your brain, theirs is cursed. . .

JeSoul:
This is why I don't respond to you often.

OK

This thread is about atheists. I responded about atheists.

Wrong.
The thread is about christians and their feelings towards atheists. . .you made your feelings known accusing some of guilt. . . .still a little objectivity wouldn't kill you.

You expressed ire I didn't condemn christians.

This i did. . .

I went ahead and condemned the christians too.

Good.

You've returned with more criticism why I didn't do so in the first place?

That was not a criticism but an honest observation (a true one at that) on how you and your group steadily accuse atheists of crimes while conviniently ignoring christians who are also culpable.

You are impossible

Oh no! The last time i heard this a girl was breaking up with me coz i steadily refuse to follow her to church. . .brings back memories. . . . .

& I humbly make my exit. Thank you.

You're welcome.

They are not smart like naija guys who'll claim they just got healed on the plane.

I see all the Ass-nal fans coming here to pick on the spurs. . . .i laugh!
It's just frustration. As they can't go to any of the big three threads to vent, because of shame they come here to rant.
. . .what a shame!

JeSoul:
Some christians. And they should be chastised just as much as the atheist gate-crashers.

Funny how you conviniently left that out in your original condemnation of the atheists, isn't it?

Topics should be respected, if you're not invited or part of the group the poster is soliciting responses from or there to only insult and mudsling, stay away or make your own topic

INVITED? since when has posting in a PUBLIC forum become by invitation?

- these are forum rules applying to all in this section.

Forum rules according to who?