₦airaland Forum

ASUU should not listen to the the FG.
If they call off the strike, the FG would keep dragging negotiations till thy kingdom come.
For this negotiation to work ASUU must have a upper hand.

I hope the fool packs up and dies in saudi arabia.
He'll be of greater use to mankind as decomposing manure.

Thanks to chris m_nwankwo, justcool, wirinet and others. . .this is about the first discussion thread i've been in without any punches and hassles.

Anyway i consider this issue to be a grey area. As we all know morality is arbitrary, there sometimes are no set boundaries on what is wrong and what is right.

Peoples views on this matter are mainly dictated by personal beliefs and i'm pretty sure the realization of this project would be determined by the personal belief of world leaders.
Case in point, Bush vetoed a bill approving stem cell research coz he's anti abortion, obama the liberal has reversed the veto.

All you can do is hope that the world leaders share your own POV.

chukwudi44:
Back to my previous argument[b],nothing is uncaused i.e everything that exists has a cause.[/b]

Oh really?
What caused God then?

For the world to have evolved ,something must have started the whole evolution process .

So mr tudor what existed before evolution started and what actually caused it ?

Mr chukwudi time and time on NL we tell you that atheist and evolutionist are two different things.
Not all atheists are evolutionists. Infact before darwin and his evolution theory atheists existed.
So i define atheism to you again : disbelief in god as potrayed by revealed religion.
Not belief in evolution.

If you're looking for answers go ask wirinet or KAG they are both evolutionist atheists.

Kobojunkie:
Oh please!!! Just cause you do not understand it does not mean you have it figured out. Like @blacksta made clear, the people who give are not CAJOLED in anyway to do so.

Really?
What does cajole mean?
Hint: It's to persuade someone to do something by making it appear attractive or causing him to feel honoured.
If thats not what daddy 419 G.O is doing then what is?

They do so with no gun to their heads so I am not sure how you came to the claimed WISDOM that the man is a CON man and everyone who does not see him that way are the ignorant ones.

If he puts a gun to their heads then he's an armed robber. But using brainwashing, sugarcoating and cajoling is the forte of a con man and AdeJALE is top notch.

Give bribes to God? Actually, the bible does say it clearly “ GIVE AND IT SHALL BE GIVEN UNTO YOU, GOOD MEASURE PRESSED DOWN AND RUNNING OVER”. So if you want to interpret that as GIVING BRIBE TO GOD at least blame God, call him out as the Con man here, for allowing those words in HIS WORD. Adeboye did not make those words up himself. roflmao!!!!

AdeTHEIF did not make up the words himself that makes him innocent, right?
Madoff didn't invent the ponzi scheme lets drape him in white robes and declare him jesus too!

Besides, is it not the same bible people like the Jwitts use yet you don't see them forming millionaires club to bribe god "whenever he needs it".

Oh please!!! Putting what members under duress? I happen to be a member and I don’t feel  cajoled in any way to join. Heck, I don’t even listen to most of the calls to give as I know my limit and I stick to it no matter what. If a member CHOOSES to put himself in hell trying to FEEL AMONG, no be that person wahala again?

Stop using yourself as a benchmark for others. Psychology has told us that peer pressure works on majority yet a few are sensible enough to resist. Adeboye knows this and plans to use it on as many people as he can.
What a theif!
SigH!!!

[quote][/quote]

Dude your reply is too long. You do not need to spam to prove your god. Any attempt to quote and reply you would be deleted by the spam bot. So let me go straight to the point.

First of all let me say that the cosmological and design argument try to prove that there might be an intelligent force behind the universe whether that intelligent force is what you refer as god or not is a whole new argument for all we know the universe might be a simulation in some alien supercomputer and these same cosmological and intelligent design argument can be used to argue this too. Also this same arguments can be used to "prove" the existence of the millions of gods on this planet so tell me, what rational and logical basis have you got to prove that this so called intelligent force is yahweh( assuming you're a christian).

I remind you i define atheism as disbelief in god as potrayed by revealed religion"- so when someone comes mouthing off that he's got proof, i expect to see solid empirical proof that jehovah as revealed by the bible (writings of deluded men) does indeed exist .
Your belief in yahweh or jehovah is purely based on blind faith so you guys should spard us the expired mantra that christianity is rational.
Cheers.

davidylan:
you're being a decietful hypocrite simply dancing around with words. Do you merely "regard" tomorrow as "likely" to happen? 

I'm not a hypocrite.
And yes, i regard tomorrow as LIKELY to happen based on my experience.

Is a "natural expectation based on experience" an empirical piece of EVIDENCE that tomorrow will exist?

No it's not.

blacksta:
This is my personal opinion  - I am not a member of RCCG

Tudor

Your ignorance in this matter is always is demonstrated in your post in relation to religion.

What ignorance?
You do not need a magician to tell you Adeboye is a con man.
You on the other hand are blinded by ignorance.

 Nobody is under duress to give money to God or to a church but if you feel God has blessed you or has been good to you then you give.  Another fact - you can not out give God .

Oh yeah?
What do you call preachings that if you do not give bribes off£ring$ to god you're doomed financially or forming a millionaires club where members give money "whenever god needs it"- Needless to say when god needs it, members would naturally strive to produce the 1million irrespective of whether they have it or not.

The teaching is putting the members under duress that they must give or face financial/marital/career ruin while
the millionaires club is some form of psychological duress just like peer pressure where members in order not to disappoint on their "club" duties pay the millas even if "god" needs it 100 times in a year.
Adeboye is really a smart theif.

For your information if you would care to listen this time  . There are thousands of instances where people have been abundantly blessed and giving a million pounds  would not be a big deal.

Abundantly blessed?
Where is your evidence?
Would you care to mention how many of the top 100 richest men in the world are christians not to even talk of born again.
Rubbish!

A true Christian knows you cannot give money to God with a grudge . The scriptures reminds us " God says let every man as you have proposed in your  heart   in  love and thanksgiving give without any duress or compulsion "

Why then does daddy 419 and others teach that giving opens doors and in effect compel you to give since everyone wants open doors.

Another fact  

Your opinion will never change the notion that God is bigger than you

Good. Let him rain money down from heaven for adeboye and stop sending the crook to come beg poor nigerians for dough.

davidylan:
Again the silly atheist runs around his own inadequacy asking me to provide evidence when he cant provide any.

Again you keep dancing around in circles for jesus.

Experience is not evidence . . . if you have no evidence that tomorrow will occur then all you have left is FAITH that since you saw yesterday tomorrow is a certainty.

Again i tell you for the millionth time we don't claim tomorrow as a certainty but as a natural "expectation" based on experience.

You "expect" the earth to continue rotating . . . but you dont know . . . you simply BELIEVE or have FAITH that the earth wont stop in the next 5 mins no? I find it easier to believe that Christ existed . . . at least i can read books!

That's as plain as day . . . you dont have to bury your head in denial.

Again you keep bundling faith and expectation based on experience as one.
Let me enlighten you alittle.

Faith according to the oxford dictionary is : Complete trust or Confidence - does that feel like what you feel for jesus?

Meanwhile Expectation is : To Regard as LIKELY to Happen or Regard as LIKELY to be.- notice the touch of uncertainty there.

We do not know for sure but EXPECT the earth to keep rotating next ten years based on what we know and experienced.
That is quite different from FAITH (complete trust and confidence) which has a touch of certainty in it.
Get it?

noetic2:
so why is this dogma not acceptable when christians apply it to their belief in GOD?. . . . ,

you are helplessly riddled in contradicting hypocrisy.

If your so called experience cannot be proven or tested thats considered delusion until you show otherwise.
Can you show otherwise noetic?

davidylan:
I think the fact is you cant see beyond your nose. It takes more faith to believe that the earth will survive the next 10 yrs than is required to believe that Jeremiah or King Herod existed . . . Oh wait . . . we can find the tomb of King Herod but where is your proof for tomorrow? 

This is rubbish . . . how do you know the earth wont stop next week? How did science figure that out? Is that not faith at work? 
Why do we need "belief" rather than science to prove that the earth will continue spinning for the next few yrs?

I do not know if the earth will stop next week.

If you tell me Tudor the earth stops tomorrow.
Even though from experience i expect the earth to keep rotating all i can do is wait for tomorrow.
If then you say in the next 10 years the world would end, unless you can provide evidence to that effect i'll definately stick to what i've experienced.

But you dont know! you're just assuming. what if wind does actually blow everyday at 10.30am but at a speed too low to detect? Can you see wind?  Did it tell you when it was blowing or not?

If winds do actually blow at 10:30am every morning then so be it.
BTW wind is air in motion. . . .it wouldn't be far fetched for we to have air moving around continiously no matter how small.

Let him raise stones and stop bugging us abeg.

Tell Daddy 419 G.O to go to bar beach and pack stones dem plenty for there.

davidylan:
How do you know it wont exist forever? Did the earth whisper its lifespan into your ears?

If you dont know that all the above requires GREATER FAITH than required to believe the earth was formed in 6 days then you live in horrible denial.
so the evidence that tomorrow will come is that he saw yesterday?  How silly.

So because i saw wind 2 minutes ago at exactly 10:30am . . . there will be wind at 10.30am too? How do you know there will be tomorrow? who told you? Where is your evidence? Have you seen tomorrow?

Experience isnt the same as "evidence" . . . i want solid empirical evidence that tomorrow will indeed take place. Dont bullshit me with that faith mantra that i will see tomorrow because i saw yesterday.

As usual you're desperately looking for a hook to hang your hat. . .

Science has shown that the earth has been rotating for thousands of years and this to us is the natural order of things there's no reason to believe it'll suddenly stop. If it does fine, it'll be a new experience and then we'll always make room for that possibility in the future.
Just like gravity when you throw a stone, you naturally expect it to come down that is not faith but expectation proven through experience.

Quite unlike your ridiculous analogy, winds don't necessarily blow at 10:30am each day.

Prizm:
Sometimes people who call themselves atheists like to pretend that they are backed by superior arguments or reason when  many times it is just emotionalism, or some really shallow and infantile reasoning at best. If you want to be taken seriously, start addressing some of the arguments. In the end, any sincere atheist may not believe in God, but honest enquiry will cause him/her to reflect deeply; it may even cause strong and staunch atheists to become agnostics of some sort.

Ofcourse atheists have superior arguments and are much more capable of rational thinking than you religionists who trotter around hugging the writings and ideas of deluded primitive men who call themselves men of god.

The problem I notice with this response is the failure to contemplate what the nature of proof can be.

By nature i assume is your usual "deductive" or" inductive" proof.

I say it again, this is just a lazy excuse for your lack of concrete evidence for your god.
Proof whether "deductive" or "inductive" should be definitive and leave no room for doubt for it to be called proof.

For example, to anyone given to a naturalistic explanation, there is no guarantee that disbelief in God will disappear if they truly encounter supernatural occurrences. A naturalist has to start out with the basic framework or worldview that all explanations are naturalistic or at best, not fully yet understood.

And rightly so!
If you indeed claim something is supernatural it wouldn't be totally out of place for the naturalist to ask for evidence now, would it?

Be that as it may, you are free to believe whatever you want as I am not indebted to 'prove" anything to you. Why? It allows you to sit your happy behind back in some comfortable chair and squabble with any propositions. Perhaps it is better to ask you to start showing the logical basis for your very own disbelief or unbelief.

Why should i bother myself to show logical basis for an unproven hypothesis not presented by me?
The solid fact that the proponents of this myth can't definatively prove their theory is "logic basis" enough for me.

Okemoni:
@Tudor I know you do not believe in christianity, but I advise that you do not talk abt God and his anoited in such a manner, pls. its for your own good.

So because he's anointed that gives him the liscence to freely con people, right?

Thanks toneyb you took the words right outta my mouth.
I truly wonder at this davidylan. . . .chai!

Thats why millions of times we've told you atheism is not an institution and has no central dogma everyone must subscribe to like religion. Everyone is free to disbelieve the god myth for which ever reason and which ever way he sees fit.

If you realised god doesn't exist through the false ontology, good for you or by the lack of evidence,fine. Some even disbelieve god based on the hypocrisy of christians while others the tipping point is the lies and contradictions in the bible.
Bottom line; Atheism is personal.

You can debunk the myth of a god from different angles one of which is the flawed ontology of god. This is clearly what george smith did and it's purely to educate.

Mistake

Error.

You can debunk the myth of a god from different angles one of which is the flawed ontology of god. This is clearly what george smith did and it's purely to educate.

Prizm:
It is not possible to definitively prove that God exists; it is also not possible to definitively prove that God does not exist. The words DEFINITIVE PROOF suggests a certain kind of mathematical certitude which we cannot employ here.

The arguments that are presented for or against the existence of God are  constructed to argue for what point of view best explains some of the grandest and toughest questions about existence, life and the universe at large. These sort of arguments are not to be construed as knockdown categorical and unimpeachable PROOFS rather they are designed to ask what worldview or perspective (theism vs atheism) is the more plausible or rational in light of the vast body of human knowledge (which by the way cannot be limited to naturalism).

Another point to note is that theists and atheists make faith claims all the time. The reason for this is quite simple. There are many rational and  logical beliefs, statements and presuppositions we operate on which cannot be empirically observed, tested, analyzed or quantified. That is to say that one cannot operate in this world if one is to say that the only explanations he/she recognizes are naturalistic explanations. Another good reason why certain axioms or presuppositions are generally accepted is because they may have happened in the historical past and as such cannot be directly observed or even recreated. Lastly, since human beings themselves are limited to sense data, only the attribute of omniscience (an attribute which humans do not and possibly cannot possess) is sufficient ground upon which to discard faith claims.

So when theists say that their belief in God is anchored on reason but ultimately on faith, intelligent and discriminating theists and atheists are supposed to understand that to mean what it simply means--which is that on the God question, human knowledge and comprehension is so vanishingly small and insufficient to pronounce with any degree of certainty what God really is. A keen awareness that God exists might be present but the concept of God (especially his boundless and infinite attributes) are just simply not circumscribed by 'rudimentary' human mentation.

The philosophical arguments for the existence of God that Chukwudi posted are worthy of deeper reflection by anyone who wants to honestly approach the issue. No one is being forced to accept or reject God, but if any atheist wants to present him/herself as someone to be taken seriously, that person has to tear apart these philosophical arguments and then erect an alternative. This means that one has to, in stepwise fashion, refute the premises upon which the conclusion lies. Why? If the premises are sound then the conclusion, on pain of rationality,  inescapably follows.

Now, I am not convinced that the ontological argument is a good argument to use with people who are self-confessed atheists. Secondly, these arguments are better marshaled if they are presented in very simple stepwise syllogisms. Cut the prose out and present the arguments as syllogisms and then let theists and atheists alike deal with the bare bones of the argument--for that is when you can begin to see where Logic/Rationality begins to separate from desperate illogic or at best, a plea to ignorance.

This is all mumbo jumbo christian apologists hide behind to excuse their inability to definatively prove their god.
It's so pathetic that you now have to resort to weak conjectures to prove a personality that is supposed to exist.
If god himself were to come down and address us publicly like he supposedly did the isrealites in the desert, is that not definite proof?

Like i said, believe by faith if you wanna but don't come blattering senseless and baseless logic all in the name of "proof".

Why is this in the politics ?
Moderators please move this to crime section coz thats where it belongs.

I see the idiotic kleptomaniac, Daddy 419 G.O keeps inventing new ways to dupe his flock.
Soon the criminal would buy himself a space shuttle while the dumb members will still be living on less than $1 a day. . .

This stupid kleptomaniac called Adeboye never ceases to amaze me!
Now Daddy 419 G.O has a millionaires club and am sure the pilfering bastard doesn't care how the members got the money, whether by hook or crook money must drop to maintain the gulfstream jet.
I weep for christianity and nigeria!

REAL TRUTH:
By Adedutu Audu

The General Overseer of the Redeemed Christian Church of God, Pastor Enoch Adeboye, has formed another millionaires’ club as he plans to raise N1.7billion for the church’s development and programmes.

The new club, named Club 1,000, according to the GO, is for people who can give N1 million whenever God wants it.

Club 1,000, which will be inaugurated on 6 September by 5 p.m. at the Prayer Foyer of the Redemption Camp, is to complement the Club 70 formed several years ago for people who can give N10 million whenever God demanded for it.

Adeboye, who announced the formation of the club while giving a report on the activities of the church between August 2008 and August this year at the 57th Annual Convention held between 3 and 10 August, tagged - Christ in me, the hope of glory, said, for a while, he has not been calling on the Club 70 members, because God told him, He (God) wants to take all the glory for all the work in the auditorium.

“For three to four years now, we have not been asking for special offering for things going on in the camp. God told me that he wants to receive all the glory.

“The Lord has been very good, when we look at what He has done and what remains, we need to pray for more help,” Adeboye said.

The mathematician turned preacher said there are still more than 100 nations of the world where there is no RCCG, despite the church being in over 170 nations and opening at least 10 parishes everyday, adding that there is acute shortage of bathrooms, toilets and dormitories, and that though the church has many, they are now grossly inadequate because of its ever increasing population.

“The auditorium is completed now. As it is, it is now inadequate, thank God it is not raining. Now, I need your assistance to build more toilets, bathrooms and dormitories,” Adeboye pleaded.

He also announced that over 34,000 babies were born in RCCG between August 2008 and August this year. 4,200 marriages were also conducted in the church during the same period.

http://thepmnews.com/2009/08/10/adeboye-floats-millionaires-club-targets-n17bn-fund

Since when did god start sending collection plates from heaven?

The crook knew there were no enough toilets, dormitories and bathrooms yet he spent about 3billion naira on a private jet- now he's coming to beg for money telling us god is demanding it.
Waka to him and the god that wants to take my money!
Rubbish.

davidylan:
the only reason you think an alternative shldnt be necessary is because you dont have a plausible one. Evolution has long been debunked anyway.

Besides it takes more faith to believe in your myth about the earth just appearing out of nowhere than is required to believe in the bible.

This is just wrong. Nowhere did i state the above as my view point.

My personal view when it comes to the origin of our world is, if it cannot be proven beyond reasonable doubt then i don't subscribe. Faith is rubbish and irrational to me.

davidylan:
I'm not sure you could wrap that piece of logic around your brain yet . . . ok simple stuff here -  if you believe a $5 bill does not exist, what is the point writing a 200-page book on why it should not be painted green?

ha ha ha,
Sorry, stop trying to shift goal posts by making ridiculous analogies. . . . A more sensible analogy wouda been. . .

"If you don't believe a $5 bill exists, what is the point in writing a 200 page book showing the bill is non-existent?"

The answer to that question is quite simple- Its to dispell the myth and educate the ignorant.

After crying blue murder and all your noise about having "proof" for the existence of god, you just come to shoot yourself in the foot.
Next time you copy and paste an article, try and read through and make sure you understand it quite well.

chukwudi44:
Conclusion

Of course, these three proofs have their share of proponents and opponents. The proofs do not definitively prove the existence of God because they can be argued. [/b]Even the greatest truth can be masked behind a veil of innocent ignorance or blindness of pride. [b]It is faith that provides the bedrock for belief in God and the cornerstone for ultimate happiness. Nevertheless, these three proofs can help show that Christianity is a rational religion, as well as an endlessly controversial one

If god really did exist why is it so hard for you christians to definitevly prove his/her existence beyond doubt?

If you're going to believe by faith by all means do, but don't come here mouthing of that you've got concrete "proof" that god is real.
Next please!

Why must there be an alternatve? An alternative isn't needed to debunk the myths of creation. . . .

Says who?
Whats wrong in writing a book to bring people out of their ignorance and dispell myths?

I wonder oo. . . .

I'm sure this is how pastor Adeboye started, later he'll claim god called him in a vision!

I didnt see anywhere you proved that titheing is "New testamental" - the only thing i see is a baseless fable, this is Nairaland not Nollywood. [quote author=tonye-t link=topic=307798.msg4326553#msg4326553 date=1249900559]I tell folks that titheing remains one of the very genuine injuctions of the bible, its never me to stress on some issues when i know that humans are always dual-parallel in discretions.

But no doubt when i see an avenue for peeps to be blessed what use will it be to be selfish ehn?

You can either believe in titheing when you read a true life experience of a tither:

[color=#006600]STORY:

been born-again way back 2001 and ever since i have made a path to pay tithes, believe me friends life has never been this sweeter, my choice for following this path was based on some personal conviction i got while reading thru' the scriptures, beleive me no pastor or whomsoever ever stressed on me its in my nature to consider things b4 doin them.

all thru' this past 8yrs, i truly see myself increasing steadily in my income, at just a tender age within my twenties, i know how things soared for me such that even the aged marvel and i often get so amazed, am in my mid-twenties now and can boost of owning 2 landed properties, a fast car and a great job and believe me i dont sweat to get them.i boost in God my source.

Sometime march this yr, i came across some post made by some fellow nairalanders on this issue of titheing, and guess what i oblidged and[b] i swear ever since then, things havent got so bad in my life like it did for just this barely 5mths, i became so broke and frustrated so much that i even had to beg for lil change to eat daily, all the pay i get monthly only God knows where it tolls, and guess what i never got to recall my fault until last wk, after all said and done, i asked for forgiveness and things are beginning to pick up considerably[/b]


with this i want to state that most infos we get here are actually made to mar us and not make us, i am a true evidence to this.

before we read and get things absorbed pls try and compare them with the true word of GOD,"the bible",i dont ever believe titheing was aborted in the scriptures, just because a thing is been abused doesnt make it bad afterall

from my experience on titheing issues here, alot of folks base there not titheing simpy because of how our MOGs use this money for selfish reasons, but why should what another man does affect what God says you and I should do for our personal blessings i ask?

i know every folk has right to express what they feel abt certain issues in the bible here on this forum, but for the true xtians you might be amazed that while you're trying to defend you seemingly right character you might ignorantly be blinding many sheep from God's covenant and kingdom

i have come to truely believe irrespective of what any folk think that titheing is a SPIRITUAL THING and will never i repeat never be understood by a CARNAL MIND (Icor.1:25-29, 2:11-15)

though i might sound foolish but i rather be foolish in the things of God than wise in the things of the world

God bless ya'll[/color][/quote]That is caused by the credit crunch and not because you refused to pay bribestithe to some god !