₦airaland Forum

mustymatic:
6. The First Commandment is that God is One
The Bible does not support the Christian belief in
trinity at all. One of the scribes once asked Jesus
(pbuh) as to which was the first commandment
of all, to which Jesus (pbuh) merely repeated
what Moses (pbuh) had said earlier:
"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adonai Ikhad."
This is a Hebrew quotation, which means:
"Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord."
[The Bible, Mark 12:29]
It is striking that the basic teachings of the
Church such as Trinity and vicarious atonement
find no mention in the Bible. In fact, various
verses of the Bible point to Jesus’ (pbuh) actual
mission, which was to fulfill the law revealed to
Prophet Moses (pbuh). Indeed Jesus (pbuh)
rejected any suggestions that attributed divinity to
him, and explained his miracles as the power of
the One True God.
Jesus (pbuh) thus reiterated the message of
monotheism that was given by all earlier prophets
of Almighty God.
NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from
the King James Version.
III) Concept of God in Old Testament:
1. God is One
The following verse from the book of Deuteronomy
contains an exhortation from Moses (pbuh):
"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adna Ikhad".
It is a Hebrew quotation which means:
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4]
2. Unity of God in the Book of Isaiah
The following verses are from the Book of Isaiah:
(i) "I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is
no saviour."
[The Bible, Isaiah 43:11]
(ii) "I am Lord, and there is none else, there is no
God besides me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 45:5]
(iii) "I am God, and there is none else; I am God,
and there is none like me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 46:9]

Now, to put forth a standard which we will agree upon...

1. The Jesus Christ in the Scripture is same as the Isa in the koran...
2. You agree that the Scripture in circulation is the BOOK that the Koran spoke of and its same as when mohammed met christians... if you have any objection... please give us the BOOK refered in this Surah, if you have none, then it means the current Scripture is the Book.

habicab:
It's now very obvious that despite claiming to be a christian, you certainly don't understand the language of the bible you are holding. If you don't know, let me educate you a little...

The concept of Father and son in the bible [b]doe's not refer to the father that begets son, it's simply that of a God and His obedient servant. If you look well in the bible, The Father(GOD) has sons by the tons there in. Maybe you have never come across the verse which says... "All those who are led by the spirit of God are sons of God". I'm sure you know the reference, so I don't need to tell you that. But if you need that I can as well provide it for you.
[/b]
Seek for the truth and it shall set you free.

And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask the people of the message if you do not know.

[We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.

Surah 16:43-45

habicab:
To start with, The Noble Qur'an was referring to the true and unadulterated revelation given to Jesus Christ (Isa, Peace be upon him).

It is also important to note that the Noble Qur'an has only ONE version (That which is, has been and will always be exactly how it was revealed over 1400 years ago without any addition and subtraction there in) unlike the Bible which is known to have numerous versions.

I will like to ask, out of all the numerous versions of the bible, which one do you intend to use for this purpose and kindly give reasons why you will be using it as against other versions?

Thanks.

And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask the people of the message if you do not know.

[We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.

Surah 16:43-45

1. The Jesus Christ in the Scripture is same as the Isa in the koran...

lexiconkabir:
as regards the first question, although it has been refuted many times, here is it once again, Q19:71 "there is not one of you but will pass over it(hell): this is with your lord; a decree which must be accomplished." the arabic wording used for the underlined is "illa waariduhakana a'la" meaning "but pass over it(hell)" not to enter it(hell) as you claim. Now lets read verse 70 that comes before 71, Q19:70"Then, verily we know best those who are most worthy of being burnt therein" which implies in verse 70 Allah is telling we (muslims) the believers that he knows best those that should be burnt, and 71 tells us that we muslims are not one of them, but we shall pass over it (hell), then who are best known by Allah to be burnt? lets read Q19:72"......and we shall leave the zaalimun[wrong doers, polytheist(e.g. trinitarians)] to their knees(in hell)" which implies the people to be burnt are wrong doers and polytheist but the true believers(muslims) shall pass over it!

meixili:
My proposition regarding this debate InshAllah

1. Stay on topic. Any sources , quotes etc. Must be shown to have a direct correlation to the topic @ hand.

2. Avoid Generalizations and Hyperbole

We often resort to generalizing and exaggerating when we don’t have enough information to make a strong case for something. Some of us do it out of habit. Some of us do it when we are angry. Whenever you catch yourself using extreme labels or making broad statements, stop to check that there’s a verifiable source behind the claim.

It may be difficult to quantify your personal experiences or opinions with facts and sources. That’s okay. Do not present opinions as though they are facts.

3.Always Assume You Are Addressing a Group with Mixed Religions

Some of us are so invested in our own religion and social values, we forget that the world is full of differing opinions. Sometimes we believe in a religion so earnestly, we assume that all other rational people must also feel the same way. This is a big mistake—especially in a an online discussion forum.

Some views are deeply ingrained and very passionately defended. Before you start to speak (or type) in bold, black-and-white terms, remember that you might be addressing someone who disagrees with your opinion. This shouldn’t prevent you from sharing your thoughts, but it should give you pause and dissuade you from using dismissive, disrespectful language.

4. Give Reasons to Support Your Opinions

5.Argue Issues, Not Personal Scores

When a question is asked , the one answering should have time to formulate an answer, it may not come immediately.

Questions MUST be clear and concise, and 1 @ a time.

yazach:
Please can you abide by rule 1?

So take one topic at a time and let us start with it

Peace on followers of righteous path

Lordgel:
Please stop this debate. Repent and accept Jesus before it is too late. Rapture is imminent! www.devinerevelations.info

mustymatic:
Whoa....u don't need to show me, you are a son of your father because he slept with your mother.
What kinda god would do that?
Even in ur bible he says he's son of man...why so? again

habicab:
You don't need to seek for people who boast, it's simply a matter of clearing doubts. If you really have genuine points, place them and you will automatically get the attention that you need. If not, you will just keep saying the same thing all over again.

I will convert and believe that Jesus is Son of God if unphilaz will show me in the bible

And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask the people of the message if you do not know.

[We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.

Surah 16:43-45

ValentineMary:
[s]Please forgive my disobedience but as much as I am an atheist, I would not like anyone to accept that Jesus had a divine nature considering that his nature was debated on until 300A.D which is about 267 years after his death. Bishops at the council of Nicea collectively decided Jesus nature without concrete proof of his divinity. Have this in mind if u are to accept that Jesus is in any way a God.[/s]

stonemasonn:
@hockeyoilers you seem to be a hired gun; you've opened more threads in just a month than any other person, and you're only active in the religion section. The Christians should hire a mercenary too with indepth knowledge of Islamic teachings to help demistify the Koran, hadith and sunna.

And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask the people of the message if you do not know.

[We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.

Surah 16:43-45

lllllllllllll:
Lollllllllllz john couldnt rubut so he making a fake post

Da bad Jon tsk tsk

lllllllllllll:
Wow!!!!! You got courage brother to show the heathens the bastardization of thier book

Lolzzzzzzz they cannnnnnot even give u a single good rebuttal

And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask the people of the message if you do not know.

[We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.

Surah 16:43-45
Sent by allahh!

allahh knows best!

And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask the people of the message if you do not know.

[We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.

Surah 16:43-45

And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask the people of the message if you do not know.

[We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.

Surah 16:43-45

hockeyoilers:
Brother address the BIBLE VERSES I brought up or make a new thread with your concerns.

And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask the people of the message if you do not know.

[We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.

Surah 16:43-45

hockeyoilers:
Little wonder why we hear from the media about Priests that are in involved with Pedophilic acts. However, from where these Priests inspire to do such acts? The answer is that they inspire from Bible. Actually, Pedophilia was born from this book of perversion. Let us see some passages that clearly support Pedophilia and Rape of preteen girls

Numbers 31: 17-18

17. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

The Jewish soldiers were commanded by “God” in the bible to keep the woman children (little girls) for themselves! In addition, they commanded to kill every woman that hath know a man by lying with him. How these soldiers in those days know if the girls are virgin or not? Simply they verify it by raping them and if the Jews discovered that they are non-virgins then they kill them as they commanded by “God”.

But the most outrageous is that the Bible imply that God is a Pedophile himself! (AstagfuruAllah)

Numbers 31: 25-40

25. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
26. Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation:
27. And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation:
28. And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons,(including the little girls) and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:
29. Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD.
30. And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons(including the little girls), of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD.
31. And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.
32. And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep,
33. And threescore and twelve thousand beeves,
34. And threescore and one thousand asses,
35. And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.
36. And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep:
37. And the LORD'S tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen.
38. And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and twelve.
39. And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and one.
40. And the persons(including little girls) were sixteen thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was thirty and two persons.(preteen girls)

In the verse 35 we are told that Jews caught as booty 32.000 preteen girls for themselves.


The verse 40 is to dedicate the little girls (of women that had not known man by lying with him-32 of them)
to“God”! As God, himself commanded above that wants these preteen girls. Indeed clear perversion, God in the bible want for himself 32 little girls, why? Maybe to do what his soldiers(Jews)to the innocent little girls. Therefore Bible by saing that “LORD'S tribute was thirty and two persons.(preteen girls) actually demonstrate the Pedophilic nature of the biblical “God” . Shame to the Bible and Shame to its followers.

So when we hear from the media, Priests(Christians and Jews-majority of Christians) that rape and molest young preteen boys and girls, we must not be surprised because these are the teachings from their “Holy Book” the Bible, as clearly demonstrated from the Verses : Numbers 31: 25-40.

And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask the people of the message if you do not know.

[We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.

Surah 16:43-45

hockeyoilers:
Your book is full of filth. I didn't write it. I know its hard for you. This is nothing I have barely touched on this subject.

hockeyoilers:
I understand you need to derail this thread cos its hard. Perhaps you should step off and bring in a real Christian apologist to deal with this ?

And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask the people of the message if you do not know.

[We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.

Surah 16:43-45

cleanvessel:
@dareabiola98

Quran 16:43
And We sent not (as Our messengers) before thee other than men whom We inspired - Ask the followers of the Remembrance IF YE KNOW NOT!

Here again, allah is referring muslims to the receivers of the Scripture. This continued reference indicates allah seriousness about the earlier Scripture.

Quran 16:44
With clear proofs and WRITINGS.....

I'm sure you know the quran was not revealed in writing. Therefore the 'writings' above refers to the earlier Scriptures.

So the warning you talk about is not relevant to the Scripture, which allah confirmed the writing as authentic.

Then, this question to you: where is the written Scripture if not the Bible?

The Advanced Learners Dictionary defines Scripture as the Bible.

No doubt the Scripture is the Bible, confirmed written with PROOF by allah.

Again, as earlier asked by the OP, why would allah contradict the earlier Scripture, confirmed as authentic by himself?

hockeyoilers:
Can ye (o ye men of Faith) entertain the hope that they will believe in you?- Seeing that a party of them heard the Word of Allah, and perverted it knowingly after they understood it… Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (Quran 2:75,79)

There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it! (Quran 3:78)

But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind. From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done. (Quran 5:13-14)

No just estimate of Allah do they make when they say: "Nothing doth Allah send down to man (by way of revelation)" Say: "Who then sent down the Book which Moses brought?- a light and guidance to man: But ye make it into (separate) sheets for show, while ye conceal much (of its contents): therein were ye taught that which ye knew not- neither ye nor your fathers." Say: "Allah (sent it down)": Then leave them to plunge in vain discourse and trifling. (Quran 6:91)

But those who wronged among them changed [the words] to a statement other than that which had been said to them. So We sent upon them a punishment from the sky for the wrong that they were doing. [quran 7:162]

Among the Jews are those who distort words from their [proper] usages and say, "We hear and disobey" and "Hear but be not heard" and "Ra'ina," twisting their tongues and defaming the religion. And if they had said [instead], "We hear and obey" and "Wait for us [to understand]," it would have been better for them and more suitable. But Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few.[quran 4:46]

And [mention, O Muhammad], when Allah took a covenant from those who were given the Scripture, [saying], "You must make it clear to the people and not conceal it." But they threw it away behind their backs and exchanged it for a small price. And wretched is that which they purchased. [Quran 3:187]

O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you used to conceal of the Scripture and overlooking much. There has come to you from Allah a light and a clear Book.[Quran 5:15]

Indeed, those who conceal what We sent down of clear proofs and guidance after We made it clear for the people in the Scripture - those are cursed by Allah and cursed by those who curse[Quran 2:159]

Indeed, they who conceal what Allah has sent down of the Book and exchange it for a small price - those consume not into their bellies except the Fire. And Allah will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them. And they will have a painful punishment.[Quran 2:174]

Quran 2:75,79
Quran 2:159
Quran 2:174
Quran 3:78
Quran 3:187
quran 4:46
Quran 5:13-14
Quran 5:15
Quran 6:91
quran 7:162

And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask the people of the message if you do not know.

[We sent them] with clear proofs and written ordinances. And We revealed to you the message that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought.

Surah 16:43-45

anath:
This guy like traveling sha! What is d issue is it that Nigeria irritates him. Anyway I don't blame him,Nigeria problem too much self.

zenith4biz:
Allah confirms the Bible.

Are you inferring that Allah was wrong?

Demmzy15:
Abi na, just leave me! Even the questions I asked them some days with Bro Ridwan, they thought they've successfully pulled it off. But I tell you, this is just the beginning. Ive got just 3 papers remaining, after them, I'm creating a thread concerning the issue and then inviting all of them to a debate. You'll see how they'll drop like green flies..... how's school by the way?!

Promise10 are you convince to conbert now? or you wan disect the above...

But yazak me i wan ask one question ... Is mohammed inevitably now in hell fire as decreed by his master allahh and it cannot be abrogated?

First of all WHAT Allah has SPOKEN in the KORAN, CANNOT be abrogated by NO ONE?

Secondly, YOU agree that Mohammed and ALL muslims are servants/SLAVE of Allah!

update: Does Allah need ears to hear, mouth to speak like man? (please add this as part of my question, thanks)

now you can ask your question but on the following conditions
1- we stay on one topic at a time, this will prevent dodging tactics that some Christians use

2- To avoid copy paste and lengthy sentences, let us limit our response to 10 lines at a time

3- You will not abuse whom I hold esteem and vice versa

you can as well add your own rules

you can also create another thread to avoid disturbances

Peace on the follower of guidance

yazach:
now you can ask your question but on the following conditions
1- we stay on one topic at a time, this will prevent dodging tactics that some Christians use

2- To avoid copy paste and lengthy sentences, let us limit our response to 10 lines at a time

3- You will not abuse whom I hold esteem and vice versa

you can as well add your own rules

you can also create another thread to avoid disturbances

Peace on the follower of guidance

hockeyoilers:
Jesus peace be upon him is a Muslim, slave of Allah he submitted himself to his creator.

hockeyoilers:
When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labour and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, and children, the livestock and everything else in the city you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. (Deuteronomy, 20:10-15)

Jesuismoi:
Clown, did he fight any war or use any sword? That alone should tell you HE talks in parable because he said:


Matthew 13:13 ►
This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

◄ Matthew 26:52
"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword


If he likes the sword like Muhammad, he wont say this to Peter at a crucial moment like this one.

hockeyoilers:
Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Matt 10:34