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Islam › Re: 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 2:12pm On Sep 26, 2019

Rashduct4luv:
Continuing from where you stopped:

The Christians at the time of the Prophet objected to this verse on the grounds that it was meant literally, but the Prophet answered their question.

Mughira ibn Shu’ba reported: When I came to Najran, the Christian monks asked me, “You recite the verse: O sister of Aaron (19:28), whereas Moses was born long before Jesus by such-and-such years.” When I came back to the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, I asked him about it and he said:

إِنَّهُمْ كَانُوا يُسَمُّونَ بِأَنْبِيَائِهِمْ وَالصَّالِحِينَ قَبْلَهُمْ

Verily, they would name people with the names of prophets and righteous people who had gone before them.

Source: Sahih Muslim 2135, Grade: Sahih

Ibn Kathir reported:

Alli ibn Abu Talha and As-Suddi said: It was said to her: O sister of Aaron (19:28), meaning the brother of Moses because she was from among his descendants.

Ibn Kathir added:

This is like saying to somebody from the Tamimi tribe: O brother of at-Tamim, or to somebody from the al-Mudari tribe: O brother of Mudar.

Source: Tafseer Ibn Kathir, verse 19:28

Muhammad Asad comments on the verse, saying:

In ancient Semitic usage, a person’s name was often linked with that of a renowned ancestor or founder of the tribal line. Thus, for instance, a man of the tribe of Banu Tamim was sometimes addressed as “son of Tamim” or “brother of Tamim.” Since Mary belonged to the priestly caste, and hence descended from Aaron, the brother of Moses, she was called a “sister of Aaron,” in the same way as her cousin Elizabeth, the wife of Zachariah, is spoken of in Luke 1:5 as one of “the daughters of Aaron.”

Source: Message of the Quran

Therefore, the verse is not a historical mistake, but rather it is in perfect agreement with the Semitic languages and ancient custom.

First, I didn't say it is historical mistake. I haven't used the word "mistake, error, contradiction" or anything critical of the Qur'an in this post. You, and especially the nosy guy suffer from intense paranoia that even the though the aim of this is to cite Muslims' misunderstanding of Qur'an, you still see it as direct attack on Islam or Qur'an. Grow up.

Second, in any language at all, "sister of" only describes the relationship between blood relatives or individuals that have met and united for a course. In this case, unless Mary is the blood sister of Aaron or met and pursue a common course with Aaron, it is not suitable to describe her as his sister.

Descendants are described as 'son/daughter/children of' ancestor(s). For instance, Jesus - son of David, Mankind - children of Adam. Descendants are not described as brother or sister of their ancestors.

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Islam › Re: 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 1:52pm On Sep 26, 2019*

sino:
Brother mane, after we have congratulated you that "o da bo o" you have left the Ummah, you come show again?! I know you are at liberty to post anywhere, I had thought you wouldn't have anything to do with us again, but I see you are looking for validation or you are proselytizing your new found (lack of) faith?!

I don't need your validation and I don't need to proselytize. I just love to write, especially on interesting ideas pertaining to Islam.

Anyways, let me just say that seven heavens, the meaning and understanding can rightly be understood from the Qur'an! But I know you just like taking one verse, and find a way to suite your opinion regardless of what other verses might suggest. Please also note that the Qur'an had made mention of creations which cannot be SEEN by our naked eyes! Today a lot has been said about multiverse, dark matter, black hole etc. by scientists, but can we see them?!

If the verse states that "Do you not see how Allah has created the seven heavens, one above another", if you can't see the remaining six, at least you can see the one you look up to, does it look like something that anyone could have done except for the Creator?!

Bro mane, have you forgotten this verse of the Qur'an?

"O company of jinn and mankind, if you are able to pass beyond the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass. You will not pass except by authority [from Allah ]." (Qur'an 55:33)

Hello! Jinn are also creations of Allah (SWT) and they are amongst us, and we can't see them! Again, Allah (SWT) has given permission to explore the heavens, knowing fully well that man would definitely venture into space, and we are "SEEING" things that are mind blowing! Giving credence to the truth that Allah (SWT) is indeed the creator, because there isn't any better explanation for all these!

Finally, Allah (SWT) states in the Qur'an:

"It is Allah who has created seven heavens and of the earth, the like of them. [His] command descends among them so you may know that Allah is over all things competent and that Allah has encompassed all things in knowledge." (Qur'an 65:12)

The 7th century Muslims understood that there are creations of Allah (SWT) that cannot be seen by the naked eyes except by permission of Allah, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and if they explained it the way they understood it, using analogy of a tower with dome layers doesn't mean they were wrong and that we can't use our own analogy from modern science to explain this!

All in all, if you want to see the seven heavens, you should look at the one you can see! Do you have better explanations for how it came to be?!

Their analogy is misleading. Especially if you know that the seven heavens originally represented the 7 concentric celestial spheres of the geocentric universe model, along which the sun, moon and 5 visible planets where thought to orbit the earth.

Again, the Qur'an asks, "Do you not see?", if it is unseen creation, why ask the readers if they see it? "Do you not see" is an inquiry for whether one witnessed something.

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Islam › Re: 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 1:34pm On Sep 26, 2019*

xxxxx

Islam › Re: 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 1:21pm On Sep 26, 2019

budaatum:
You clearly have no understanding of Christianity. If you did, you'd know Jesus himself is this so called injeel you are seeking.

Not according to Qur'an.

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Islam › Re: 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 1:17pm On Sep 26, 2019

5. Iblis

Most Muslims would say that Iblis was a Jinn. Because an angel would never disobey God(16:49-50), and because Iblis himself admitted his creation from fire(7:12) - the source element for Jinns(55:15).

If any were to question this, they could point out that the directive to prostrate was meant for the angels and if Iblis was not an angel, there would be no requirement for him to prostrate.

2:34 And We said to the angels, “Bow down to Adam.” They bowed down, except for Satan. He refused, was arrogant, and was one of the disbelievers.

Couple that with the fact that there was no mention in the Qur'an exactly what what the angels have been created from. For all we know, they could've as well been fire creatures. That is unless otherwise we hold in regard the hadith which states the angels were created from light.

It thus remain unclear as to the type of creature Iblis is, a Jinn or a fallen angel.

Islam › Re: 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 12:43pm On Sep 26, 2019

Cyrus the great as Dhul Qarnayn

It is quite indeed interesting theory. Cyrus may qualify as Dhul Qarnayn if we take into account the size and location of his empire: Syria and Asia minor in the west, Indus in the east and Caucasus up north. More noteworthy, Cyrus qualify as Muslim(Zoroastrian) and an honorable ruler far more than Alexander.

The fatal flaw in the Cyrus theory is that no walls have been related to have been built by him. Not in legends, not in historical records.

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Islam › Re: 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 12:43pm On Sep 26, 2019

Dhul Qarnayn as Alexander the great

In the formative years of Islam, the character most associated with the title was Alexander the great. Alexander built a massive empire in the third century BC, legends say that he traveled so far east and west seeking the rising and setting places of the sun. And also that he helped erect a massive wall to keep barbaric invaders away.

No wonder the earlier scholars didn't really dispute Alexander as the identity of Dhul Qarnayn. And so it was all OK, except for one little problem. Alexander was known a pagan, a worshipper of Greek gods. It would be a matter of time before later scholars start questioning the Alexander theory.

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Islam › Re: 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 12:42pm On Sep 26, 2019

4. Dhul Qarnayn

In the 18th chapter of Qur'an, the reader is introduced to the titular character - Dhul Qarnayn(the two horned), a powerful emperor who traveled far east and far west(setting and rising places of the sun), and up north where he built a mighty fence to stall invasion of barbaric tribes(18:85-98).

As the Qur'an never identify character by a proper name, it is my suspicion that the author expects the reader to have been familiarized with Dhul Qarnayn from external sources.

Islam › Re: 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 2:53pm On Sep 25, 2019

Sahih Muslim » The Book of Manners and Etiquette

When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read" O sister of Harun" (i. e. Hadrat Maryam) in the Qur'an, whereas Moses was born much before Jesus. When I came back to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) I asked him about that, whereupon he said: The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostles and pious persons who had gone before them.

Islam › Re: 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 2:49pm On Sep 25, 2019

"But usermane", you might say, "Why do I care? Qur'an never said Amran was father of Moses!" Fair enough. But who is Aaron? There is only one Aaron mentioned in the Qur'an - the brother of Moses!!

Muslim apologists have sought alternative meaning for "sister of Aaron", saying that sister might not mean blood sister, but sister in creed. This is in negligence of the fact that "brother/sister of" never qualifies the relationship between individuals that neither met nor lived the same days.

As can be seen in the following hadith, it does seem this became a huge conundrum for the early Muslims.

In the end, no Muslim can identify Jesus or Mary with certainty. In short, as they say, "Allahu a'lam."

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Islam › Re: 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 2:49pm On Sep 25, 2019

If it is indeed true that Judaism predate Christianity by nearly 2000 years, it would be inconceivable that Mary would be sister to Moses as the Qur'an seem to suggest. Meaning, unless the Qur'an mixed up the identities of these persons, they cannot be whom we've been bred to understand.

Or could they?

What if we're looking at co-incidences, what if Mary's father just happened to share the same name as Moses' father? What if Mary's brother just happened to share the same name as Moses' brother?

Not only would such coincidence be too far fetched but it wouldn't be in honor of the author of Qur'an, especially as the Qur'an never alert the reader to such coincidence nor avert misunderstanding of relevant verses due to such coincidences.

Islam › Re: 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 2:48pm On Sep 25, 2019

Qur'an 19:27-28
Then she came to her people, carrying him. They said, “O Mary, you have done something terrible. O sister of Aaron, your father was not an evil man, and your mother was not a LovePeddler.”

Qur'an 3:35-36
The wife of Imran said, “My Lord, I have vowed to You what is in my womb, dedicated, so accept from me; You are the Hearer and Knower.”

And when she delivered her, she said, “My Lord, I have delivered a female,” and God was well aware of what she has delivered, “and the male is not like the female, and I have named her Mary, and have commended her and her descendants to Your protection, from Satan the outcast.”

Islam › Re: 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 2:47pm On Sep 25, 2019

3. Mary/Jesus

So, in the Qur'an, there is only one woman mentioned by name - Mary. Which makes it strange that Muslims do not understand her person. Muslims claim that she begot the penultimate prophet - Jesus - the man whom mainstream Christians worship as God, or the son of God.

Jesus lived in the 1st century, where he founded Christianity many centuries before Muhammad. There is overlooked, yet fundamental difference between the Jesus/Mary of Muslims/Christian tradition and the Jesus/Mary of the Qur'an. In the Qur'an, Mary was daughter to Amran & sister to Aaron, and this Aaron was brother to Moses.

Islam › Re: 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 5:20pm On Sep 24, 2019

There are several other theories among Muslims about the seven heavens. Some say they are spiritual realms or alternate dimensions that we cannot sense. Again, the phrase "Do you not see" utterly rebuff such theories.

Next, more modern Muslims decide the seven heavens to be layers of the atmosphere - troposphere, stratosphere, mesosphere, thermosphere, ionosphere, exosphere and magnetosphere. Of course, you might have heard this touted as scientific miracle of the Qur'an.

But you see, while six of the atmospheric layers are stacked above themselves, one of them, the magnetosphere, cut across or overlap all six other layers. Not to mention that the layering of the atmosphere is not visible. You cannot look at the sky and tell the troposphere from the stratosphere. So, the reader of the Qur'an cannot SEE that God has created the seven layers of the atmosphere, one above the other.

Islam › Re: 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 5:19pm On Sep 24, 2019

Abbas - Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
(See ye not) have you not been informed, O disbelievers of Mecca, (how Allah hath created seven heavens in harmony) He created them one above the other like a dome whose different parts are cemented with each other.

If you pick up your telescope to explore the night sky, you cannot count the heaven(s). To this, the apologists say that we cannot count the seven heavens because we can only see the nearest heaven. Yet in the Qur'an, it is likely implied that we can see the 7 of them.

For instance, 71:15 says;
"Do you not see how Allah has created the seven heavens, one above another".

The phrase, "Do you not see" is indication that the seven heavens created can be seen by the reader. If we cannot see the seven heavens, the phrase "Do you not see" would be pointless.

Islam › Re: 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 5:19pm On Sep 24, 2019

2. The Seven Heavens

Qur'an 71:15
"Do you not see how Allah has created the seven heavens, one above another".

The first Muslims thought the heavens to be solid matter. As Ibn Abbas points, the seven heavens are layers of domes stacked together like 7 floors of a tower. This understanding of seven heavens would fit the prevalent understanding of the cosmos in the 7th century.

Islam › Re: 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 2:55pm On Sep 23, 2019

Now that it is clear that it makes no sense for the Qur'an to ask Christians to follow the Injeel if it has been lost or will be lost in future, the only other proposition left is that the Injeel is the New testament of today. But such proposition would be problematic because the Qur'an itself already states it CONFIRMS the Injeel whereas there is plenty of contradictions between the Qur'an and the New testament.

So, alas, we ask again. What really is the Injeel?

Islam › Re: 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 2:55pm On Sep 23, 2019

If the Injeel indeed is lost, how then do Christians of today live by it? The apologists claim that at the time this verse was revealed, the original Injeel still exist, but today it has been lost. A counter claim to this is that since the Qur'an is a guide, it should've warned all that the Injeel will be corrupted, instead of urging the Christians to live by it. Or God, the author of Qur'an should've preserved the Injeel like He promised for the Qur'an.

Now, when we speak about New Testament preservation, the Muslim apologists are in full ignorance about it. For not only can today's New Testament manuscripts be traced to the days of Muhammad, but to as far back as the 2nd Century AD. Yes, and when I say New Testament, I mean virtually all passages of the New testament. So, if the Injeel was corrupted, it was corrupted even before Muhammad, therefore it'll be completely ridiculous that the same Qur'an require Christians to live by the Injeel.

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Islam › 5 Qur'anic Terminologies No Muslim Understand by usermane(op): 2:55pm On Sep 23, 2019*

1. The Injeel

Qur'an repeats that Injeel is the book delivered to Jesus, just like the Qur'an is delivered to Muhammad. So, if we were to look through the Christian religious texts of today what would be the equivalent of the Injeel?

The New Testament. The New testament is believed by Christians to have come after Jesus, written by noble men under divine inspiration.

The Muslim scholars contend that New Testament is not the Injeel, but a distorted, adulterated remnant of the Injeel. Yet, not only does the Qur'an never warn readers that Christians HAVE tempered with the Injeel or WILL tamper with the injeel, the Qur'an also demand that Christians live by the Injeel.

Qur'an 5:47
Let the people of the Injeel judge by what God has revealed in it.

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