₦airaland Forum

budaatum:
God is perfect. The Quran is the Word of God

But Didn't you say Qur'an is not the Word of God, but the words recited to Muhammad by Jubril?

aadoiza:
It's a big shame that the world believed Osama to be the boogeyman all along without any evidence just 'cos America said so.

9/11 was not the only charge level against bin Laden. He doesn't become a sympathetic victim just because he had no hand in 9/11. He was behind many terror attacks especially with the Talibans in late 90's.

How cursing & kicking out effeminate men and emasculate women detract from Scientific growth

Men may not be to blame for behaving like women. It could be due to their upbringing or genetic. If we all harbored curses and kicked them out, we'd never understand the genetic root of sexual behaviors to realize why some males may act too feminine and some females act too masculine.

Of course, there could be exceptional cases. But it is a fact that feminine behavior in males and masculine behavior in females is inborn

8. Curse & Put out Effeminate men and Emasculate women from your houses

[quote author=Sunan Abu Dawud>>Book of General Behavior]The Prophet (May peace be upon him) cursed effeminate men (mukhannathan) and women who imitated men, saying: Put them out of your houses, and put so-and-so out.[/quote]

4. Summer heat & Winter cold are due to breathing of the hell fire.

"The (Hell) Fire complained to its Lord saying, 'O my Lord! My different parts eat up each other.' So, He allowed it to take two breaths, one in the winter and the other in summer, and this is the reason for the severe heat and the bitter cold you find.

Another unverified hadith. Seasons are caused by earth revolution and tilt around the sun.

Ibn Kathir agrees as well. They both understood this verse to mean Dhul Qarnayn reached the specific place where the sun literally rises, ascends the horizon. As you can read, the people living at this place felt the heat as the sun rose in proximity than when the sun is at its zenith. https://quranx.com/Tafsirs/18.90

This re-interpretation bias on the Muslim's part is clear when we return to the interpretation of the scholars of antiquity. Here is what Tafsir Al Jalalayn has on the issue. The commentary is underlined to distinguish from the verse itself;

Until, when he reached the rising of the sun, the place where it rises, he found it rising on a folk, namely Negroes, for whom we have not provided against it, that is the sun, any cover, in the way of clothing or roofing, as their land could not support any structures; [u]they had underground tunnels into which they would disappear at the rising of the sun and out of which they would emerge when the sun was at its highest point in the sky.

Funny enough some Muslims read further; "he found it rising over a people for whom we have made no cover from her". They say this refer to the midnight sun. And derive a modern interpretation of the entire verse as Dhul Qarnayn travel to North Pole to find the midnight sun.

This of course is unconvincing, because there is no sunrise during midnight sun. The sun never leaves the horizon. Whereas, Dhul Qarnayn saw the sun rising in the verse.

Over the years, Muslims & their scholars have offered varying interpretations of this verse.

For some, this verse mean Dhul Qarnayn traveled till he reached a place during sunrise. Such interpretation would've been more credible if the verse reads, "So, he followed a way till rising of the sun. He then found .......".

"Till rising of the sun" is different from "Till when he reached rising of the sun", the Qur'anic reading. The phrase, "when he reached", leave the apologists in a very precarious position.

3. Dhul Qarnayn traveled till when he reached rising (place) of the sun

The Qur'an narration of Dhul Qarnayn have puzzled many for long. Chapter 18v90 report that Dhul Qarnayn traveled till when he reached the rising (place) of the sun. We have not verified that anyone can travel till when they reach such a destination - rising (place) of the sun.

support the attrocities on Yemenies and, turn a blind eye to the massacre of the Rohingiyans, sponsor IS and install CIA agents and freemasons as Presidents of a country, while they steal and prepare the world for the coming of the anti-christ.

Hmm .... Typical Muslim apologists, always blaming everyone else for Muslim problems. Never willing to shoulder responsibility. Which do you lose sleep over? That some Muslims are oppressed and persecuted or that some human beings are oppressed and persecuted? I mean I'm confused.

It didn't seem to matter to you earlier that Nigerians were killed in a riot that sparked from alleged blasphemy against Islam, so why does it matter that people in Burma are victimized by the government. Didn't you defend Wahhabis for their massacres of hundreds of Muslims for shirk in the early last century?

Please, be honest and stop discrimination. Oppose all oppressions, not only oppressions against Muslims by non-Muslims.

They let Palestinians die like insects everyday

This is not entirely true. US has been funding the international aid for Palestinians until last year. Look, there are 1.6 million Palestinians in Israel. I do not seek to absolve US of all blame, but can we be realistic in our judgments?

Najib's Chronic Ignorance & Pathological Bias

najib: This are just tactics by the west to justify the atrocities made against Muslims. Till today America is yet to provide the evidence of WMD's they accuse Sadam Hussein of. They're the one's that sponsored and trained Osama bin Laden, but they later called him and the Talibans terrorists.

All of these are half-truth that spread among ignorant Muslims by hearsay, rather than rational inquiries.

US trained bin Laden, a fighter among the Mujahideen to help the Afghans resist the Soviet invasion. May be the US had selfish reasons for doing so, but I'm sure without their help, Afghanistan won't even stand a chance against the Soviets.

Whatever terror bin Laden put his acquired training to, after the war, cannot be blamed on the US. As for the Taliban, they are not on the US list of terrorist organizations.

sino:
There isn't any 'Holy Ghost' to help understand the Qur'an, Allah (SWT) had taken care of that for us, Allah (SWT) Says in the Qur'n:

"It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding." (Qur'an 3:7 SAHIH INTERNATIONAL)

You would see for yourself when you do read the Qur'an, the clarity of the verses, and indeed there are verses that are allegorical and some that deals with the unseen, as Muslims, we believe everything as the true words of God, and what we do not understand from it buttresses the fact that our knowledge is indeed limited, and we can only know what is intended for us to know and understand.

The Prophet (SAW) was sent as a guide to bring us the message and also exemplify the this message. The revelation was best understood by the Prophet (SAW) and his immediate followers/students, who were much eager to learn by way of asking questions...So we do go back to the authentic narrations from the Prophet (SAW) and his companions to arrive at better understanding of the Qur'an. Of course, there are those who have dedicated their lives to the path of acquiring these knowledge of the religion, and thus we have scholars, who we can also seek understanding from.

Also, the Qur'an encourages us to reflect and reason while reading the Qur'an, Allah (SWT) wants us to employ critical thinking when we read the Qur'an, and not to be unmindful, for this would help us discover the wisdom and assist our understanding inherent it the verses, and build our confidence in the truth of the message.

Please take a look at the first verse usemane had quoted, he claims that it is unverified, but is the problem the verse or usermane?! I would only quote the remainder verses and you be the judge...

"And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.

And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf.

It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit." (Qur'an 36:38-40 Picthall)

So as not to be confusing for other readers, let me quote another translation:

"And the sun runs [on course] toward its stopping point. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.

And the moon - We have determined for it phases, until it returns [appearing] like the old date stalk.

It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming." (Qur'an 36:38-40 Sahih International)

Salaam. Here are the problems;

1. We have not verified any 'resting place' for the sun.

Context is important. Note, 'resting place' here most likely has to do with diurnal cycle than end of the world.

036.037
A token unto them is night. We strip it of the day, and lo! they are in darkness.

036.038
And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.

036.039
And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf.

036.040
It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip/overtake the day. They float each in an orbit.

Also problematic is that these verses do not seem to correlate night and day with earth rotation. For instance, verse 37; "We strip it of the day, and lo they are in darkness." This sounds to you like earth surface rotating from sun light to result in night?

2. Also, using the verb "overtake" for 'night' in verse 40 is problematic since the night is not a physical object, but an occurrence.

budaatum:
In Christianity, after we had turned deaf ears to burning bushes and angels and shepherds and phophets and asses and before Paul and co, Jesus returned to the Father and sent us the Holy Ghost to help us determine the proper understanding of the Holy Words of God.

I feel certain islam must have something similar, if someone could help me please.

As far as Qur'an is concerned, it is a self explained book. Ideally, every man is his own interpreter of the Qur'an. No clergy.

2. Fever comes from heat of hell

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Fever is from the heat of the (Hell) Fire; so abate fever with water."

This is also unverifiable. Fever as we know comes from body response to pyrogens. Water won't help fever patient. That is why we've developed NSAIDs like Asprin or Paracetamol.

Also solar apex can't be revealed for 7th century folks because it was beyond their observation and comprehension. It may just confuse them and cause misinterpretation. Here is how the scholars of Qur'an understood the verse, nothing like solar apex; https://quranx.com/tafsirs/36.38

In ancient times, people didn't understand earth rotation and time zone. They thought all the earth did not see the sun at night, and that the sun goes to its resting place after sunset, outside the physical realm of the universe. It is suspicious that this verse resembles such myths on the sun.

Some Muslims re-interpret limustaqarrin to mean solar apex, & they say this verse is even a scientific miracle. I'm skeptical of that because we cannot overlook the context of this verse - day-night cycle. Solar apex have nothing to do with day and night.

Solar apex is a direction the entire the entire solar system, not just the sun, is traveling relative to the fixed stars. Solar apex is not confirmed as the resting place of the sun. It is a direction, rather than a resting place for the sun.

1. The Sun runs to 'resting place/dwelling' for her - Wal shamsu tajri limustaqarri laha (36:38)

Reading from Qur'an 36:37 - 40, it is strongly implied that the context of this verse is the diurnal cycle. This sun's resting place at night is supposed to be a sign, but our understanding of the sun thus far confirms no resting place for it.

Some Muslim translate the phrase 'limustaqarin haha' to 'the term appointed for it', instead of 'the resting place for it.' This is not convincing translation, because when ever the Qur'an uses 'limustaqarin' for physical object, it implies a physical location. Not a term.

Another thing, burial delay is necessity for postmortem examination which can help in determining cause of death, useful for solving crimes or unraveling the pathology behind deadly diseases.

The idea of postmortem exams and autopsy would never even be conceived in a society that strongly insist on immediate burial of corpses.

How Quick or Immediate Burial Can Retards Scientific Growth

Our modern understanding of human anatomy and physiology heavily owe to cadavers(corpse) studies. Cringy as it sounds, medical universities still rely upon cadaver dissection to educate students - potential health care providers- on how the human body is structured and functions.

If all of humanity immediately buried their corpses, how far could we have come on human anatomy and physiology? We'd most likely still rely on the teachings of Aristotle or Galen, and so many illnesses would not be understood to develop their cures.

7. Corpse Should BE Buried QUICKLY

[quote author=Sahih al-Bukhari » Book of Funerals]The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Hurry up with the dead body for if it was righteous, you are forwarding it to welfare; and if it was otherwise, then you are putting off an evil thing down your necks."[/quote]

A scorpion tail belongs to a scorpion. Muhammad does not belong to anyone. He was a public figure and every member of the public have a right to express their opinion about him. Please see my thread on Qur'an and Human Right; https://www.nairaland.com/4789914/quran-human-rights-freedom-equity#72569170

I also support the boycott of Denmark why will they draw the messenger of Allah S.A.W? Did the Muslims ask them? Or do they love the messenger of Allah S.A.W more than us? If you know that when you try to touch a scorpion and it will sting and you go ahead to touch will you blame it?

Sorry, but Muhammad was an historical figure, just like Ceaser, Alexander the great. Muslims have no copyright protection over Muhammad. Non-Muslims have every right to draw Muhammad. Non-Muslims are not bound by sharia law, especially in secular countries.

Also, see the silly analogy with scorpions he makes here. Nigeria educational system is a failure, it graduate uneducated literates. There is more focus on grades and passing exams than understanding concepts, and that's why we produce graduates that can't think for themselves but rather prefer to live by the thinking of their ancestors.

And, No. I'm no fan of beauty peagent, I believe women should not be judged based on their looks. Speaking of looks, that includes hijab or headscarf. I believe women without headscarf and hijab should not be treated with any less respect than women with them.

Najib would defend the honor of Muhammad at the cost of human lives

najib: I was told about the beauty pageants issue, and the protest is Justified how dare that man (I have forgotten his name) say that prophet Muhammad S.A.W will choose an unchaste as his wife?

So what!? Does that give any Muslim any right to pick melee weapons and start wounding and killing? What nonsense is this? This riot shed so much blood and destroyed so much property, yet what matters to you most is the 'honor' of your prophet?

Also, see how he refers to the participants of the beauty peagent as 'unchaste', as if he knows all these women in their private life. I've said it days ago, we have to be careful exposing our females to fanatic Muslims because these Muslims are very sick and perverted minded folks who look down upon at non-hijab wearing women.

tintingz:
I read Khadija the first wife of Muhammad is somehow related to Muhammad. Any take on that?

And his children died of mysterious illness.

Oh, I haven't found any info relating blood ties between Khadija and Muhammad. I learnt about his children's death long ago. Quite striking. I don't know how common it was for parents to lose so much of their kids to illnesses or natural death at that time.

Jesus will die naturally and be buried by Muslims.

What's more interesting is that, Muslims have reserved an empty grave for Jesus beside Muhammad's grave in Medina. I'm trying hard not to laugh here. Because when you read further you find that Muslims have expanded the Medina mosque to incorporate Muhammad's grave and far beyond, to make room for more worshippers.

So, if there is an empty grave there, Muslims built concrete over it. Does this make sense? And so Muslim built their temple over the grave of their prophet(s) despite their prophet cursing Jews and Christians for building temples over graves of their prophets. The hypocrisy.

https://sunnah.com/muslim/5/26

Jesus will kill all the pigs

This reminds me of the hadith on Muhammad ordering the killing of all dogs, or black dogs. Obviously, Jesus isn't killing the pigs for food. So, why kill the pigs? Isn't this animal abuse? Doesn't Islam forbid this?

Jesus will rule according to sunnah of Muhammad

I don't know how this works. We know that Muhammad's supposed sunnah have not aged well. If Jesus return, it'll be more practical to adopt a new sunnah. Sunnah like banning music and pictures of human/animals are too antiquated to work in our time. Muhammad's supposed sunnah is riddled with flaws and no messiah for mankind will live by it.

Jesus on his return will embrace the Muslim ummah.

But Christians believe Jesus will join them. Muslims may say, "Christians have gone astray". But this is subjective reasoning. Christians believe Muslims are astray as well. Also, even if Christians are astray, can we really be certain that Muslims have not also gone astray? There are several hadith implying that Muslims will eventually fall astray as Jews and Christians; https://sunnah.com/muslim/47/7

Some Muslims think that they can save themselves by adhering to the 'sunnah of the prophet as understood by the companions'. Still, there is no guarantee in this. Because the prophet is reported to have told his closest companions that he cannot guarantee their fate after his death; Muwatta Malik, Book of Jihad, Hadith 32.

Najib invokes the return of Jesus

Let them rejoice it is but a little while that ibn Maryam A.S will come.

Next, najib believes in the return of Jesus. Which is fine. I don't believe Qur'an spells this, but to each their own interpretation. Now, what I challenge are the traditional Muslim beliefs concerning the return of Jesus, which obviously najib holds. Some of them includes;