₦airaland Forum

MacCantStopMe: An agnostic is also an atheist

I thought agnostism is the border line between theism and atheism. This is my view, supported by Oxford Advanced Learner 's Dictionary(6th Edition).
An atheist is convince that there is no god but an agnostic is still yet to reach conclusion on the existence of God.

To solve any problem, the factors contributing to it must be listed. That was simply what i did in the other thread.

It is time agent provocateurs are ignored. That way, they 'll eventually get tired of their childish games. Hacking my posts is a proof of inability to contend with my arguement or criticism.

Logic007: A perfect religion from God should be above the barbaric nature of the ancient man.

Understandable, i don't believe that any true religion of God will condone misorgyny or slavery. The problem could be in the interpretation. Although you are right, the three Abrahamic religion so far sanctioned slavery. But then one cannot conclude this is the reality especially if you see that religion came to us after several modifications by earlier generations.

Also, the absence of evidence isnt the evidence for absence. As you said, you haven't found adequate proof for God 's existence but i suppose that should lead you to agnostism and not really atheism. Right?

Peace to All.

The vast contribution of the early muslims to the field of science is partly due to collaboration with Jewish, Greek and Persian scientists whose base or territories were annexed into the Abbasid caliphate post Abbasid revolution and invasion. This provision is not available in today 's muslim world. Also understand that those Muslim Physicians, Chemists or Scientists were not hard line sunnis and shiites as we have today. Many of them were philosophers, free minded and rational monotheists who encourage continous research, use of reason and alteration of views when sound evidence is discovered. They weren't held back by cultural or religious dogmas of their time and hence some of them were deem heretic by the traditionalists of those days.

Am astounded that mainstream muslims fondly recall these icons and seek to replicate their era by calling for return to "Quran and Sunnah". Islam as a religion has undergone series of modifications over the centuries and hence, what Ibn Sina defines as Islam may widely vary from what mainstream ulema defines as Islam. In fact, there are reports that Ibn Sina wasn't even a Sunni/Shiite. Think am trolling? Take the case of 'Islamic' revolution in Iran(1979) and give me one significant contribution it has yielded for over 40 years. Also, did you catch on with another practical attempt to return to "Quran and Sunnah" by the Talibans who took over the reigns in Afghanistan in the late 90s? How civilised or modernised was society of the Talibans and their subjects? What were their contributions? Where are they today?


This will make a good topic to treat in future but go read brillant works like Benard Lewis' "WHAT WENT WRONG", from the Abbasids to the Ottomans and down to recent Saudi Salafis; the middle easterners never truely deserted the "Quran and Sunnah" as the fundamentalists reiterate. It just happened that the Westerners simply marched forth, reformed and sky rocketed beyond them.

As salam alaykum.

@OP, True love transcend beyond superficial attributes like face and body. If you fall in love, you fall in love with everything as it is, so where does having to endure one defect in the midst of other valuables come in?

Peace be with you.

It is a consequence of dissatisfaction with the word of God. Many beliefs, laws and practices in mainstream/orthodox Islam were plagiarised from Paganism, Judaism, Christainity, Zoroastrianism and medieval Arab, Persian and Roman cultures.

Ask yourself, "what is the purpose of having moon and stars on the minaret of a House of God?". These were some of the idols which the pre Islamic Arabs joined in their worship of God.

The first mosque built by the Prophet was a simple one, no frivilous design, minaret, or prominent symbol like moon or star.

Unfortunately, decades after the Prophet 's death, minarets with moon and star were introduced to mosque by muslims. This was aimed at contesting with the Christians' churches marked with minarets and crosses. An aim they 'll permanently achieved by later banning the building of new churches in their domains to this day.

PS: It is basically conjecture that moon and star became attached to Islam during the Ottoman reign. There are reports that these symbols were introduced before the Ottomans.

Hey, hey, wait one minute. You are the third person to post this message on nairaland. I ignored the first two in Religion section and i come here to meet another one. Your presentation is mediocre at best. You failed to consider that countries like Spain and Cyprus were once muslim state untill a few centuries back. Today, in both of these states, muslims make less than a fifth of the population. Also, Turkey in the days you point at was very much larger than it is today. So, save for its name, Mordern Turkey isn't Ancient Turkey.

I 'd like you to stop deriving such conclusion as 'there is a secret agenda to Islamize Nigeria'. Even the muslims think there is a secret agenda to Christainize Nigeria. They talk of Sunday being an holiday while Friday isn't, Hijab not permitted in most government schools, hospitals or business centres etc.

As for the Boko Haram menace, i bet you don't know who is who. I 've heard of cases where Christians disguised as Muslims were caught planting a bomb or setting their Church ablaze. Not every muslim support Boko Haram.

Not bad, not bad.

Heebucun: 1)See him when he is in his element.

I wouldn't agree fully with this. Granted that even a shy guy want to impress his love interest, seeing him in his element and cheering him could tense him or even get him shy away out of fear or embarrasing himself.

2)COMPLIMENT HIM.

Don't be excessive here, and don't do this publicly or you create attention which could scare him off.

3)Say his name a lot. Give him a complimentary nickname.

Alright, but ensure this nick name is decent and appealing to him.

4)Ask open-ended questions.

Great tip here. It 'll eventually show you care enough which might be enough to open him. But be too frequent and don't be inquisitive. Sometimes you need to see if he misses your company or not. This could get you see if he is into you or not.

5.Ask for help with something.

I think it has to do with the feeling when a lady entrust you of all people. You want to overcome every odd to impress her. In Secondary school, my crush once sought my assistance to fix her calculator one afternoon. I had no idea, but not wanting to disappoint her, i promised to fix it. It took me the whole day after school, plus nearly all night to disassemble the calculator and fix it via trial and error. This cost me my supper and nearly my homework too. I 'd still do the same today.

6)Ask about his interests. Ask what he likes to eat or what sports, hobbies, or movies he enjoys.

Same with No. 4

7)Try writing notes.

Takes off the pressure of eye contact and often give the shy one more luxury to express himself clearer. No silent or awkward moment.

Touch him gently or even give him a mini massage

Ascertain he is fine with this before you attempt it! Only if he truely love you will your move be taken with pleasure.

9)Make the first move yourself.It's not illegal or even off limits, and it may come as a great relief to a guy who's a bit reserved if you ask him out.

Oh, there are varying ways to do this if you are scared of being too forward. Remember, if your crush is really shy, he 'll becareful not to blow you off even if he is not interested.

10)Bepatient, and don't rush things

Patience Always Pay.

So many inacuracies in your presentation. You are right, the Jews did not accept Jesus because he didn't meet their standard. The torah was not all the Jews invoked, there was the Talmud too which came with additional signs of the Messiah. Most especially, Jews expected a King to break them off the Roman dominance but were disheartened that Jesus was never concerned with revolt and Kingship.

It may sound impressive that you cited evidences from the present old testament but it really isn't. The present old testament is a mediocre translation of the masoteric texts. The masoteric texts isn't the original hebrew torah. The masoteric text was the Jewish response against the proselytism and polemics of the early Christians. The masoretic text did not even come untill after Muhammad. The Torah that Jesus preached from was the septuagint which is a greek translation of original torah.

logicboy01: Slavery as regulated by Abrahamic faiths

Lack of evidence for Gawd


Misogynistic appeal

But i believe slavery and misorgyny were common themes in ancient times. Are you saying even atheists in those times weren't guilty of them?

BananaBender: @username: Have u seen the pic of the Admin? Dude looks like a wimp and acts like one.

logicboy01: I saw it. Seun is afraid of muslim violence. This is why he keeps mum on the intolerance. As long as maclutunji keeps the majority of peeps in the islam section shielded from criticism and happy, Seun is ok

BS, how can you be afraid in your own forum? Imagine my thread getting deleted when i kept to the protocols and presenting facts, meanwhile the muslims there insult or vilify me without getting a slap on the wrist. Yesterday 's thread on "assasination crimes of muslims" was deleted for no genuine reason. And these same people lament of discrimination and marginalisation all the time.

So, for now, i 'll drown my sorrow on something else.

As an atheist, can you tell what got you disillusioned with religion?

logicboy01: I say the exact same things I say about christianity to islam but I never get banned on the religion section. Why?
Why the double standard?

The Admin is an atheist. I expected more than tolerating Islamist intolerance from him. I 'll have suggested a new moniker but i don't know. I may not share all your views but many of your criticisms are logical enough.

I read your complaint on your thread about moderating the mods. Seun and the admins feel that Maclatunji is doing a good job, so this madness will continue.

The Admin asked me to report my case to the Supermods. But it will amount to nothing, i cant waste my time. My last thread was deleted cos i exposed the evil in mainstream Islamic teachings. In vain, they tried to twist and distort facts to cover the truth, my thread was drawing too much attention, so they deleted it to guard the sanctity of their beliefs.

Liberals are ruining UK. As soon as the extremist attain dominance, these same liberals who support them will be the first to meet the sword.

Call a spade a spade and forget political correctness when life is concerned. Expose the full identities of the culprits whether Arab, Asian or American.

cloudstar: If you understand the Christian teachings of Jesus then you will understand how the laws of the old testament fits into Christian lives. The laws in Leviticus and Deutoronomy were the laws of Moses and the Jews couldn't live up to it. For example, the laws of Moses taught that if you commit adultery, you should be stoned to death. The law of God - 10 commandments doesn't issue a punishment but tells us not to commit adultery.

Peace. I agree with you that the laws in the OT aren't binding upon Christians just as the laws in the NT aren't binding upon muslims. But i disagree that Jews couldn't live up to the laws in the context of your talk. The Pharisees were so willing to keep to the OT that they introduced many more restrictive rules to helm the Law of Moses. It is a wrong notion even among orthodox muslims that the Jews never kept laws like stoning adulterers. Stoning adulterers was practiced long before Jesus by both Jews and Pagan. Even the NT relates a story where Jesus saved a harlot from getting stoned by the Jews.

Christians look at Jesus teaching on the subject; instead of obeying the law of Moses that encourages stoning of adultery, He set a new precedence - don't do it again, you are forgiven.

I can see that, but sometimes punishment aren't there to burden us, they exist to serve as deterent and establish Justice. Unlike backbiting, adultery is a sin/crime that entails directly hurting a third party. In that case, don't you think it is more just to have an earthly punishment for it than not?

Matthew 15:17-20
Mark 7:15-19

I think you interpreted these verses off context. The pharisees were overly concerned with eating with unwashed or dirty hands. Jesus meant that physical dirt doesn't pollute us but spiritual or moral dirt does. I don't think this has anything to do with clean or unclean food. Give it a thought.

Sorry for the diversion, but how much longer are you going to wait for a response?

arsenalwenger: Recently world powers asked the arab to form a military coalition to defeat ISIS, but the sunni dominated arab and muslim world are reluctant to do that. This is because muslims are not koranically permitted to fight their fellow muslims.

Originally, when ISIS emerged, the Iraqis couldn't tell where their loyalty stood. On one hand there is the government growing secular every day and there is the this ever strengthening group armed to the teeth, ready to give their life for return of full sharia law as outlined in "Quran and Sunnah". Then again, there is this wide spread belief among them that a man(Mahdi) will arise towards armageddon, unite all the muslims, help defeat all the non-muslims, eliminate oppression, restore muslims to the top and implement full sharia law that have been forgotten today! Could Baghdadi be this man?
It wasn't untill they were dealt heavy blows by ISIS that some of them made it back to reality.

Middle Eastern governments can't fight ISIS as US demand. This is because theocrats are still debating which option is the least haram of the two;

A. Support infidels(that drink, deal in usury, consume pork) to fight their militant brothers(who abstain from music, fornication & fast twice weekly).
B. Vise versa

Otherwise, just keep to themselves in their ivory towers reading eschatology here and there.

100 years? You don't mean it.

The whole mess is blamable on the Admin. I addressed him rhetorically last week;

www.nairaland.com/1897040/moderate-nairaland-mods

Every religion should be open to criticism and disapproval both from within and outside the religion sphere. This is not possible in the case of Islam since the Admin has over empowered muslims with autonomy over a whole section. It is for this reason that my last thread on 'Jihad' was hidden after 3 days.

It is well with you.

My recent topic has been deleted because i criticised "ISLAM" and exposed the dark side of those teachings called Hadith and Sunna.

I think that was the only way to silence me since i wouldn't take half baked apologetics based on faith alone. But am only a bit saddened when these things happen. You may count this as my loss but it underscores something that i 've been repeating, "orthodox Islam can't stand rational criticism. That is why one or two persons here and there go about persecuting critics, hidding posts and deleting threads that are as old as 3 days in this case."

Local imams have now told the rape victim to consider her husband as her son, and her father-in- law as her husband.

"As per the Sharia law, the baby in her womb is her husband's brother. Her husband must divorce her, even if his father looked at his wife with lust,"

Maulana Mohammad Nazar of Jamiat Ulama-i- Hind – Organization of Indian Scholars, a conservative Islamic organisation – told India TV.

This is the most unfortunate part of the story. Charlatans making life miserable for others. This is why most rape cases go unreported in Sharia compliant societies. Because sharia punishes rape victims.

@underlined, this cleric is even called master or lord, this is a title that is exclusive to God, not even the Prophet.