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 Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 6:13pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
^^^ Seen anything familiar? I actually opted not responding but your denial kept reverberating and thus i cooked up this one. Daily Hadith!!! You 're asking yourself, "how?", didn't you look before you leap? Don't be a hypocrite Sino, embrace the truth. |
| Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 6:04pm On Sep 07, 2014*. Modified: 6:41pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
3.Orthodox Islamic Texts: Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger as saying: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it. Sahih Muslim 26:5389 4.Orthodox Islamic Texts: http://mquran.org/content/view/7272/2/ Abu Bakr As- Siddiq used this(Quran 9:5) and other honorable Ayat as proof for fighting those who refrained from paying the Zakah. These Ayat allowed fighting people unless, and until, they embrace Islam and implement its rulings and obligations. Allah mentioned the most important aspects of Islam here, including what is less important. Tafsir Ibn Kathir; Quran 9:5 5.Orthodox Islamic texts: Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah." Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he asked Anas bin Malik, "O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a person sacred?" He replied, "Whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the same rights and obligations as other Muslims have." Sahih Bukhari 1:8:387 |
| Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 5:57pm On Sep 07, 2014*. Modified: 6:17pm On Sep 07, 2014 |
sino: Orthodox Muslims denying what exactly?! How can you compare a two-faced lying atheist with a Muslim?! 1.Orthodox Islamic Text: ‘Abdullah Ibn ‘Amr Ibn AI- As said, “Do not visit the drunkard when being ill.” (Al-Hakim in Al- Mustadrak and attributed by Al-Suyuti to AtTabarani in Jami’ Al-Ahadith) Al-Bukhari and Ibn ‘Umar said, “Do not greet the drunkard.” The Prophet said, “Do not sit with the drunkard, visit their sick or attend their funerals. On the Day of Judgement the drunkard will be brought with a black face, and his tongue dangling on his chest, flowing with saliva. Whoever sees him knowing that he is a drunkard will disgust him.” (Ibn Al-Jawzy) 2.Orthodox Islamic Texts: Narrated Ikrima: Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' " Sahih Bukhari 4:52:260 |
| Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 10:17am On Sep 07, 2014 |
Rilwayne001:In one of Zakir Naik 's lecture visits in Europe, he was asked, "why do you come here to preach freely while in sharia states, non muslims can't do the same?". The Doctor avoided the question till he returned to India. There he responded that; "will you let a teacher come & teach 2+2=5 if you own a school? In a nutshell, the problem with many of us muslim is double thinking. Throughout my days as an orthodox muslim, i was taught that "Islam" is a religion of peace, no compulsion, no injustice, no double standard or violence. But as soon as i returned to the religious texts, notably the oral traditions and orthodox exegesis of the Qur'an, i was taken aback. What Abdulsleek did is no worse than what orthodox muslims do when they deny vile practices like death for apostacy/blasphemy, sugar coating their beliefs in order draw converts. |
| Islam › Re: Is ISIS/ISIL Islamic? by usermane(m): 8:03am On Sep 06, 2014 |
"The truth that we can not deny is: ISIS learned from our schools, prayed in our mosques, listened to our media… and our religious platforms, read from our books and references, and followed fatwas (religious edicts) we produced. "And again, my post got deleted by the mods for no genuine reason and guess what? I see weakness. Wait for my exposé on Jihad next week. |
| Islam › Re: The Puzzled 's Guide To Jizya by usermane(op): 8:01pm On Sep 04, 2014 |
www.beliefnet.com/columnists/commonwordcommonlord/2014/08/nothing-islamic-about-isis-part-two-what-the-jizya-really-means.html Of course, every attempt to provide moral explanation for Jizya is considerable. But the truth cannot be reached by apologists or window dressers. The problems with the above article aren't far fetched. For one the claims aren't based on evidences from Quran, Hadith or Books of Tafsir like Ibn Kathir or Ibn Abbas. Rather the author quotes M. Asad, a translator 's commentry. Translators have no place in interpretation in orthodox Islam. For two, even if we accept M. Asad 's commentary, there are still issues. Please read the page and ponder. If Non-muslims have to pay tax for not participating in military defense of the state, only a slight percent of muslims participate, why don't the majority of civilian muslims pay the Jizya too or increase their zakat to in return for the protection? |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: ISIS Beheads American Journalist Again by usermane(m): 10:03am On Sep 03, 2014 |
Idrismusty97: His ministry is growing. Introducing the real Obama"The truth that we can not deny is: ISIS learned from our schools, prayed in our mosques, listened to our media… and our religious platforms, read from our books and references, and followed fatwas (religious edicts) we produced. " - Saad bin Tafla al Ajami Former Kuwaiti Minister of Information www.clarionproject.org/content/isis-learned-our-schools-prayed-our-mosques-dr-elham-manea 1 Like |
| Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 8:15pm On Sep 02, 2014*. Modified: 8:30pm On Sep 02, 2014 |
Am tired of debating proponents of Hadith who have never read a full volume of Sahih Bukhari in their life, who haven't even seen a copy of Sunan Abudawood in their life but yet want me to join their bandwagon in either cherrypicking from or blindly abiding by traditions that have no beggining or end, no confirmed total count, no Quranic or historical legitimacy. It is God 's mercy that i discovered His true message[Quran 25:30-31]. Otherwise, i 'll still be choking from oral traditions that are full of blasphemies against God, slanders against the Prophet, hate, aggressive, misorgynistic and backward teachings. Keep your questions to yourself, Empiree. Am not going to reply. I 've had enough of your crap, at least for the meantime. |
| Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 8:13pm On Sep 02, 2014 |
I cited 4 hadith on only salat that contradict your method of salat and what did you do? You responded with 4 other hadith that contradict those ones but support you. In short, you contradicted your book, your book contradict itself and we all know contradictions has no place in a true Book of God. You missed several historical facts, you cannot even cite an evidence that Prophet was divinely taught how to perform salat so as to teach it like Abraham(21:73). Then i asked 5 questions on hadith books, you had to stand aside for tbaba to intervene. Tbaba came with responses that only irrational people will take like ;"Writing Hadith was originally forbidden to prevent mixing hadith with Quran". It is funny how he want to teach everyone when his creed is repeatedly debunked by Shiites here using his own Sahih Books. If i "ll ever return to hadith, i ''ll become a Shiite because over and over they have proved to have more evidence in even the sunni books and rely more on intellect than you sunnis. |
| Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 8:11pm On Sep 02, 2014 |
Pride And Self righteousness. Pride is a state where a man is so full of himself that he feels those who oppose his ideas must be silenced. Selfrighteousness is a state where interest banking is evil because it exploits the poor while non-muslims must be made to pay "Jizya" because this isn't exploitation but the decree of ..... You see, it is the problem with you guys, Empiree. You always swear; "he is ignorant, he is misguided"(Quran 49:11). As if you know it all. Added to that, you elevated yourself to the position of telling us who God loves or not. But you didn't stop there, you crossed the line and called me an agent of mischief/fasad(Quran 5:33). In the space of a few hours, tbaba1234 called me ignorant no less than 3 times. If only u realise that "misguided, ignorant" are relative terms. I have met far educated persons, they don't swear, they don't use rude words like "ignorant or misguided" for particular. Each time you swear at me, am hardly bothered, even Abubakar Shekau swears at muslims who disagree with him. I can feel the rage behind those words, i can feel the hate in your chest and i learn from it, am grateful to God. |
| Islam › Re: The Puzzled 's Guide To Jizya by usermane(op): 11:35am On Sep 02, 2014 |
On one end we have the extremists expounding on the sacredness of human life, on another end we have them taking human lives for not paying just a sum of money. How on earth is not paying 'Jizya' worth taking a man 's life. The extremists publicly deny the evil in their teachings when they proselytize but on practicing these teachings in full, they are exposed. www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/10/egypts-muslim-brotherhood-convert-islam-or-pay-jiz/ www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2013/September/Egypt-Christians-Killed-for-Not-Paying-Jizya-Tax/ |
| Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 8:31pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
tbaba1234: That hadith is about the khawarij, groups like BH and ISIS.. You will see khawarij written on topI doubt your interpretation of that hadith. While it is true that ISIS militants should be fought for their atrocities, this hadith doesn't specify those to be killed as the militants or terrorists. Rather it permit killing of those promoting "false/heretic interpretation of the Qur'an, who don't really practice Islam". The people to be killed according to this hadith can only be limited to Khawarij if violence and aggression had also been mentioned as their traits. Shouldn't have degenerated into this. Think a bit more intro before posting that hadith could have alerted me that you were changing the subject, since prior to that, your posts were directed at me. Regardless, please let bygone be bygone. |
| Islam › Re: While Being Oppressed, We Have Become Oppressors- Maajid Nawaz by usermane(m): 2:54pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
tbaba1234: The KhawarijLast night, i stated that being anti Boko haram/ISIS doesn't conclusively make one a moderate. Behold i have found an example, a proof. You can see for yourself, TheBigUrban2. The poster posted this in reference to me. But i believe he has more in common with the historic khawarij sect than me. How many moderates can speak when extremists in compliance with the above tradition are ready to chop of their(moderates) heads? Untill muslims are ready to confront or question their religious texts(Oral traditions), there can be no lasting end to the oppression and aggression courtesy of muslim extremists. People like the poster may never pick up a gun to kill in the name of an Islamic state but they are no saint, they reinforce and protect the oral traditions, the root of radical/terrorist beliefs among muslims from ever been confronted. Thus, no matter how effective military action against terrorists is, the root of terrorism remain in the muslim culture to sprout in future. Thank you tbaba1234 for revealing your true face and for giving us another reason why hadith should be rejected. |
| Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 2:46pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
tbaba1234: The KhawarijThis is the same hadith cited by Islamist insurgents as a basis for killing muslims who dare condemns them and by citing this hadith/oral tradition in reference to me, the poster confirms his side on the table even though he might have never expressed verbal support for Islamist insurgency. The fabricators/writers of hadith faced oppositions from the onset. On attaining victory, in a pre- emptive strike to shield their fabrications from probing or questioning, they also fabricated cheap prophecies like this to convince their opponents, which unfortunately for them doesn't hold a candle to Quranic prophecies. The poster likens me to the khawarij but i tell you, he has more in common with this historic sect than i do. Spare the rod. |
| Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 2:38pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
3. Your responses here fully eluciadates on the degree of discrepancies in your books. Abubakar of all people closest to the messenger should have no reason to burn his 'own' hadith books if he considered them official source of Islamic law. The funny thing is that if he indeed burnt those hadith prior to death, then it is only reasonable that he never resorted to them in the past. Then if Umar refused to compile hadith after recommendation from his people, doesn't that mean he find hadith not so relevant to be written and spread? In short, how can Umar even require the consent of his people to compile hadith if truely the Prophet permitted it after the Quran was completed. There is hadith in Hanbal, that the Prophet never turned back in his stand against recording hadith. The explanation on Abu Huraira seem manageable, but it is out of point. Whoever asked of how many narrations were exclusive to Abu Huraira. The fact is that he reported hearing over by far numerous hadith(than other companions) directly from the Prophet in a span of less than 2 years. Didn't he or the prophet do any other than discussing hadith 24/7? Science of Hadith has never appealed to me. It cannot be used to prove the veracity of hadith for a number of reasons. From the onset till now, scholars have disputed on the credibility of the narrators. Their approval of narrators were often influenced by sectarian, personal or racial differences. If it is possible to determine and agree on a persons character from opinions collected after his death, i wonder why Abu Bakr isn't recognised in Shiite culture. tbaba1234: The problem is this: AreQuit teacher complex, Big man. You too should be capable of giving logical and moral explanation. |
| Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 2:29pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
Regardless of whatever hadith you cite in support of your position on salat, refering to my last post, you only further confirm that there exist discrepancies in Hadith concerning Salat. Empiree this is a fatal flaw in your Books. Note that i haven't even delved into contradictory reports in hadith books on subject of ablution or other salat related issues. Now, i "ll deal with the 5 questions raised in your last post with regard to you and tbaba1234 's responses. 1. True, hadith were in circulation even during the Prophets life. But he never attributed divinity to them, infact he discouraged them. There is hadith in Sahih books which he forbade writting his words beside Quran and order anyone who had done that to erase them. It is a baseless claim that he temporarily stopped writting of hadith in order to prevent mixing up with Quranic verses. There was enough paper, enough ink, even you believe that nothing in writting is comparable with the Quran. Muhammad and his followers weren't dumb enough to mix up Verses with oral traditions. Even a Primary 3 student can take down notes on Basic sciences or Health sciences simulatenously without mixing up. Did you also claim that the arabs didn't see recording of Hadith necessary because they were experts in memorisation and recitation? Well, if the hadiths are divine sayings of the messenger, then like the Quran, the arabs or infact messenger should have recorded it instead of waiting for some fellows do the job for him. No matter how retentive one 's memory is, writting down infos cannot be overemphasized. 2. Silly question? The Prophets, the Ummayads were arabs. It raises curiousity that non of the compilers of the six "authentic" books of hadith was an arab. I 'll tell you what. The ummayads(arabs) did fabricate and peddle hadiths but they knew it to be scam, a tool to assert their political or social stand, they could narrate and dispute their conjectures but they dared not go against the order of the Prophet and officially write and market any book in his name. The Quran remained the only official source of Islamic law. When the Abbasids(Persians) took over, they rejected any policy from the Ummayad and went on to record hadiths highly costumised to their position. They needed to blend Islam with their culture and justify every atrocity they perperturated and what better means can these be achieved other than attributing to the Prophet? Your salat prayer for instance is a perfectly imitation of the Zoroastrian ritual; NAMAZ. |
| Islam › Re: While Being Oppressed, We Have Become Oppressors- Maajid Nawaz by usermane(m): 8:26pm On Aug 31, 2014 |
TheBigUrban2: Whatever the case, the moderates have to speak out.Whatever you say, to me speaking out isn't enough. There is need for delving into theology and religious texts to condemn the actions and ideology of the extremists. Unfortunately, moderates need guts. Many fear for their lives thanks to several moderates getting killed for daring to condemn the extremists. As a side note, who is a moderate? Cos one doesn't employ violence or physical force to assert his ideology doesn't conclusively make him a moderate. There is no difference btw an ISIS militant or an anti ISIS muslim who believes in establishment of sharia state that will penalise apostacy or proselytism of other faiths. |
| Islam › Re: While Being Oppressed, We Have Become Oppressors- Maajid Nawaz by usermane(m): 8:24pm On Aug 31, 2014 |
^^^^ I couldn't agree more with you that this is a typical case of oppression that need supports from moderates. Those tweets, those messages with threats can't be taken for granted. It gives the sad reality that the muslim world still have a long way to go in recognition of person freedom of beliefs(Quran 2:256). Pakistani Muslims are ultra conservatives and easily provoked. Nevertheless, good for Ambreen Sadiq, atleast she 's got her natal family on her side and fortunately sharia law in Uk isn't fully implemented yet. I 've seen worse predicament. |
| Islam › Re: The Puzzled 's Guide To Jizya by usermane(op): 7:30pm On Aug 31, 2014 |
www.nairaland.com/816531/jizya-taxes I found this in the archives. Justifying injustice is a deed more horrendrous than injustice. Read for yourself. |
| Islam › Re: The Puzzled 's Guide To Jizya by usermane(op): 9:11am On Aug 31, 2014 |
Remark In the end, Jizya is only mentioned once in the scripture; Quran 9:29. And that was in context of a war. Where do the orthodox muslims get their Jizya outside this context from? The Islamic state can impose tax equitably on her citizens regardless of tribe, status or religion but to interprete Zakat or Jizya as tax is baseless in the light of Islam; THE QUR'AN. Of course, this might not change anything. Those who "ll dispute will dispute over the clearest or most trival issues(Qur'an 18:54). But as a reformer who acknowledge the truth, you 'll let it out regardless of how many feet that will be stepped, regardless of how many curses that will be hurled and regardless of how many ties that will be broken(Qur'an 5:08). Peace. |
| Islam › Re: The Puzzled 's Guide To Jizya by usermane(op): 9:08am On Aug 31, 2014 |
Jizya=Jazaya= Compensation= Reparation Hence; I- Jizya applies only in context of war or aggression. II- Jizya is paid by those who violated terms of peace, aggressed against and caused damages to life and properties in the Islamic state. III- Jizyah is compensation for the losses of the aggrieved due to the actions of the aggressors. IV- Jizyah is meant to fix or mend losses, damages incurred by the aggrieved or Islamic state in the context of this verse. |
| Islam › Re: The Puzzled 's Guide To Jizya by usermane(op): 9:07am On Aug 31, 2014 |
To normalise peace and end bloodshed for good, the Muslims entered a peace treaty with the Pagans. But repeatedly, the Pagans violated this treaty, plotted to expel the Prophet from his city, harrassed, looted and attacked Muslims(Qur'an 9: 8-10, 12, 13). God then issued an ultimaton of 4 months within which the Pagans were expected to repent and ammend or better still, embrace Islam. Otherwise, retaliation was permitted for the muslims till the Pagans pay for their wreckage, till they pay the reparation, the Jizya for aggressing.[Qur'an 9:1-5, 29] |
| Islam › Re: The Puzzled 's Guide To Jizya by usermane(op): 9:05am On Aug 31, 2014 |
^^^ The muslims migrated to Medina to escape persecution and oppression in Makkah. There, they recieved a warm welcome and protection in Medina, in a matter of time the people accepted Muhammad as their leader who would later establish a secular state. Still dissatisfied, the Pagans especially from Makkah continued to torment Muslims even in Medina and this culminated in a couple of wars. |
| Islam › Re: The Puzzled 's Guide To Jizya by usermane(op): 9:03am On Aug 31, 2014*. Modified: 9:19am On Aug 31, 2014 |
Jizay in the Quran Qur'an 9:29The word "Jizya" originate from the arabic root; Jazaya which mean a compensation, to make up for a loss. So, Jizya in war context of the above verse more accurately refer to reparation and so taking the linguistic view alone, Jizya isn't "tax". |
| Islam › Re: The Puzzled 's Guide To Jizya by usermane(op): 9:02am On Aug 31, 2014 |
There are also claims that Zakat is tax on muslims for which defaulters are to be fought or even killed by the state. No, Zakat is obligatory due commanded of muslims which is meant to cover the poor, needy or underpriviledged(Qur'an 9:60). It is mandatory in the sense that God punishes defaulters but like salat or fasting, no body is permited to fight or penalise deliberate defaulters. Tax on the other hand isn't restricted to only the welfare of the poor and needy as in zakat, tax is a due paid to the government and used to run public services of the state. |
| Islam › Re: The Puzzled 's Guide To Jizya by usermane(op): 9:01am On Aug 31, 2014 |
^^^ Supposing the apologists were right is it reasonable that according to their oral traditions that the Prophet would order the execution of a non-muslim for not paying a sum of money? If "Jizya" in the orthodox Islamic texts were a honest tax as the apologist want us to believe, then it is only possible that the Prophet could have exiled the defaulter or barr him from enjoying certain services the state renders if he insists on not paying the 'tax'. The fact that according to this report that this man 's life could have been taken for not paying the Jizya imply that the apologists are playing dirty here and Jizya in the orthodox muslim 's culture is more severe than just a tax. |
| Islam › Re: The Puzzled 's Guide To Jizya by usermane(op): 8:59am On Aug 31, 2014 |
Oral Tradition on "Pay the Jizya or Die!"::: |
| Islam › Re: The Puzzled 's Guide To Jizya by usermane(op): 8:58am On Aug 31, 2014 |
^^^ If Jizya is a simple tax for non-muslims like citizens or foreigners in secular states as the apologists explain, then why is it so much significant in orthodox Islamic creed, why does Jesus have to terminate it on coming and why not Zakat too, since it is repeated Zakat is also a tax exclusive to muslims? |
| Islam › Re: The Puzzled 's Guide To Jizya by usermane(op): 8:56am On Aug 31, 2014 |
Oral Tradition On Jesus' Coming::: |
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