₦airaland Forum

Eventually, i grasp why i have been at the recieving end several times in Islam section. Because, i often criticize orthodox Islam, expose the straw man, the apologists and window dressers using nothing but the Quran itself.

My opponents have their differences over which they could clash, but they are all united in disheveling & victimizing me to shut me for good.

At that point, it occurred to me that some persons have something to hide. I mean, why else would my post be deleted when i simply asked those seeking if ISIS ideology is "Islamic" to confirm from mainstream Islamic sources of teachings? There and then it all clarified. The demand for a separate section for Muslims was never really due to frequent cursing and insulting of Islam/Muslims by sentimentalists, was it?

It was borne out of intolerance and a desire by the extremists for full power to protect their reputation by prohibiting and weeding out any attempt to criticize, refute or expose unholy "Islamic" teachings. Their counterparts on Yahoo! Answers did the same in the past. That is why there is a special section(Ramadan) exclusive to only them while adherents of more than 4 different faiths have to manage one section.

3.
Recently, there arose a question; Is ISIS Islamic?
www.nairaland.com/1889938/isis-isil-islamic

In response, i simply recommended reading through Orthodox Islamic Quran exegesis and Oral traditions for the asker. Of course, i was only recommending the main sources of mainstream Islamic teachings for the asker. But, as if some skeletons in the cupboard were about to be exposed, the moderator hid my post.

2.
From the Quran exegesis of one of the most revered orthodox muslim scholars, i once posted, exposing extracts of violent teachings that legalizes fighting non-muslims untill they embrace Islam. As typical, the mods would have my post hidden and banned me for a full month, making the same silly accusation that i posted off context or incomplete information even though i left a link to the source in my post.

Read here;
http://mquran.org/content/view/7272/2/

I returned with criticism of the age old bemoaning of the media houses by most muslims but the thread was instantly hidden and i had to repost in the Religion section to confirm where i got it wrong.

Read here;
www.nairaland.com/1798376/antiquated-bemoaning-media-why

1.
Early February, i opened a thread:
Why Zionist Enemies Of Islam Love Hadith And Sunnah Than Sunnis And Shiites.

There i presented radical, hate, aggressive and misorgynistic teachings detailed in Orthodox Islamic oral traditions; explaining that Zionists cash on these teachings as justification for Islamophobia, warmongering and genocide against muslims as the Palestinians are suffering. Despite being an attempt to get muslims re evaluate their books of oral traditions, the mod hid the topic 2 days later, accusing me of posting their oral traditions off context.

Read here; http://19.org/blog/zionists-love-hadiths/

This bring us to the point of this thread. Seun Osewa must understand that there is need to further moderate Nairaland and emphasis should be on moderating the Mods. The Mods make or marr the forum.

But Nairaland have a poor rating on moderators. I am witness to this. Without violating any posting term, i 've been victimized by poor moderating in Islam section. There are several incidents but i 'll list three.

Of course, Islam section isn't the only section in nairaland but it stand to reason that if any wrong is tolerated in one section, other section will follow suit over time.

It is a mass blunder to have created a full section for muslims while adherents of other faiths have to squeeze into one section. As a consequence, Islam section has become a camp where only one sect or interpretation of Islam is favoured at the detriment of others, gloating is supported and a honest condemnation of any "Islamic" doctrine is prohibited and penalised, thanks to extremists.

Speaking from my experience in Islam Section, when you think of a forum where educated, critical and open minded folks can register to discuss, criticise, debate or question, Nairaland doesn't come to mind. Again, this is based on the victimization and double standard that i have suffered in that section for no other reason than my regular criticism of orthodox Islamic teachings.

An internet forum can be an avenue to socialise, discuss, reveal and discover very scare or concealed facts beyond our imagination. You meet folks from all places with varying takes on subjects. Your identity is secure and you have everything to gain but nothing to lose. Being regular on this forum, how much benefit can you boast of deriving?

To maximize our benefit from the forum, there has to be freedom of speech. Is this permitted to a remarkable extent here?

kazlaw2000: Usermane, i will like to know your opinion on op's last question (is it halal?). Thanks in advance

He was asking the mods and their supporters. But IMO, "no"

Empiree: You didnt finish. Who created Saudi Arabia as we know it today?. Who brought inb AbdulWahab to power?. Answer that please

That 's non my business, it is another subject entirely. The fact here is that Saudi state was established via the same evil means as ISIS, derived from Orthodox Islamic texts.

tbaba12345: Today, you learn another principle in fiqh, necessity allows for concession. The law is suspended in cases of desperation or absolute need.

Thank you teacher, tell it to those who prefer to be spoonfed by scholars. Your own tradition which prohibit alcohol even as medicine for the sick is an evidence against this.

If a person is critically ill and needs to be rushed to a clinic where caretakers can take care of him then certainly, it is your obligation as a muslim to do so. At that point, you are saving a human life so it transcends not visiting the sick.

First, the hadith prohibit sitting with or visiting the drinker on a good day. Then, what about a bad day, like he is sick and could find us helpful? The hadith goes further to prohibit visiting him even in that case. Who visit the sick with no intent of helping him? Desperation or not, as soon as you move that distance closer to help him, you are visiting him which violate the line, "do not visit their sick"

If i had taken this hadith to the local Imam, he would have given me your explanation. But if one day, i get up from his company & inform him that am heading to a friend who is sick, he would encourage me even if he knows this friend is a drinker. That is the problem with ahadith, many are hardly practiced or recognised by muslims, but they 'll defend and justify them to protect their faith.

tbaba12345: Listen, not visiting a sick person is not equivalent to abandoning him to die.

What 's the difference? Our visit could save a sick 's life. When you rule out visiting such a person, then you abandon him in pain and difficulty, even if our visit could come in handy.

Those charged with treating people will still treat him.

No, many people fall sick and helpless at home. The Physician is not always available to commence treatment. They may need the company of a neighbour, urgently.

The person who experiences a social stigma from drinking public is likely to avoid drinking in public which saves life of the people in society or seek help to stop drinking.

where did you see "public" in the hadith? Locking him up for drinking can make him suffer societal stigma to force him to change too. There is enough means than putting his life at stake.

Note that these rules are talking about a state where Islamic law is fully in place like it was in the past. In this case, you would not even have the 'riba banker' so the 'riba banker' is a poor analogy.

In that case, how did alcohol get into the Islamic state? You are not even suppose to have drinkers in the state, then.

arsenalwenger: Look at sharia laws in Saudi Arabia and tell me I’m wrong, it is in line with IS religio-political ideology which SA is not implementing but IS is doing exactly that.

You hit close to home, many curse ISIS forgetting that Islamist insurgencies did not start today. The Saudi state was built on aggression, violence and bloodshed as ISIS. But ignorantly, many glorify this state as exempleray while cursing ISIS.

Saudi state was first established by the Muhammad Ibn Abd-al Wahhab and Muhammad bin Saud 's religio-political alliance. These two puritans lead a revolt to purge out "heretical" practices and deviations from orthodox Islam as they understood.

Like ISIS, Abd-al Wahab and his followers(Salafists/wahabists) stopped at nothing, persecuting, looting, killing and desecration in their revolt against muslims who simply held a different Islamic view. Thus, the Saudi state was established and although like ISIS, the Salafists were initially rejected as khawarij by most muslims then, today they are adored and respected by most orthodox muslims despite have the same ideology with ISIS.

Empiree: Cant you see how tbaba break it down?

Lets see what he 's got.

tbaba12345: If anything, this has the societal benefit of discouraging public drunkenness. It is an act of tough love and shows that societal benefit is placed more highly.

No educated person want you to just break it down. They want you break it down with reason. Am sorry, there is no moral in abandoning a sick man to die because he is a drinker. This is plain evil, and contradict your hadith that enjoin kindness to all. There are enough ways to discourage drinking in the society.

And as for societal good, we can also forbid visiting sick riba bankers to discourage riba banking in the society, right?

See, i could go on and on. But am fed up. Sometimes, it feel better to ignore irrational rebbutals, right stands clear from wrong.

Empiree: My responses in blue

Peace, i never declared any muslim here a kufar, ie make takfir. Infact, there is no such term in my understanding of Islam. Rather, takfir is a common practice among you, orthodox muslims.

You called me a khawarij, anyone can read it from your post, i don't have time to bicker over it. Besides, a khawarij is an arabic term for those who withdraw from mainstream interpretation of the religion and according to your tradition cited by tbaba1234, such persons are to be killed.

I didn't bother addressing your response to the 5 Ahadith i posted because i don't have time for endless arguements. Your responses were neither honest nor factual. Any objective reader can see the evil in those traditions, no one will talk " No! There is System of Interpretation, context" when the Ahadith clearly prohibit visiting an ill drunkard even if he is dying for help and declare the blood of non-muslims as unsacred and permissible to be shed.

Of course, there are ahadith as you cited that enjoin helping the sick and protecting even non-muslims, but you can't reconcile those ahadith to these ones. If you choose the hadith that recommend kindness for every sick, you have to disregard this hadith that forbid visiting the sick drunkard and vise versa. There is no middle ground. This is contradiction, a feature that can't be found in God 's message.

FreeLogic: Also, is this not a gateway to fornication? Chatting with lusty profile pictures? Is it even halal?

lets just say, not everyone here is puritanical

Empiree: So this lone wolf Quranite on NL is a guilty extremist as much as those "jihacrazies", the vagabonds. He's a semi-brand of khawarij as well. What he thinks is irrelevant.

Wait, you just called me a khawarij who according to your traditions is an heretic that should be killed? Not again.

Jack, you are taking this way too extreme. Can't you just present your proof without digressing into personal attacks?

mazaje: True. . .My problem is with some moderate muslims, they refuse to come out and repudiate the extremist, they just sit down and support them tacitly. .

I have never heard muslims praying in mosques for Allah to destroy BH or ISIS but I have heard them pray for Allah to destroy the Jews.

You 've been meeting the wrong guys, then. So many passive terrorists masqurade as moderates. You won't get a sincere repudiation of Islamist terrors from them. I have discussed these passive terrorists in the past.
www.nairaland.com/1828224/passive-terrorism-peaceful-violence

Also, being a non-extremist isn't synonymous with being a moderate. There need to be a criterion to determine who is a moderate. In my book, he is secular, open minded and doesn't enforce his beliefs on others. For instance, For instance, there are many muslims who don't aggress but they support the introduction of moral police(Al Hisba) in northern sharia states of Nigeria. Such a person seek to enforce their beliefs on others and this isn't different from what the Islamist militants seek. I believe true muslim moderates are less common than we think.

Get to read moderate muslims interviews on their struggles periodically here;
http://www.clarionproject.org/interviews

The extremists find us more of a formidable threat than US drones because we refute and debunk their ideologies, promoting democracy, secularism, freedom of beliefs/speech, gender equity using the Qur'anic verses.

That is why they 've been prosecuting/persecuting us, blocking/hacking our websites, banning or Video channels, banning/confiscating our articles and books. But we have never wavered, despite being few and barely have enough resources as the extremists. We may even be suppressed, but our train just got started and for us, it only get better onwards.

This is what the sola scriptura muslims(informally called "Quranists") have been doing for over 40 years. We are not modernists, apologists or pseudo-moderates as many assume. Rather, we seek to reform mainstream Islam with the Quran. We believe that mainstream Islam is a severely distorted version of the original preached by the Prophet from the Quran.
We uphold the Qur'an, rejecting all extra scriptural sources such as Oral traditions(Hadith & Sunna), words of scholars, clergy etc for Islamic teachings.

Emotion and sentiments won't tackle extremism. The Church would never have collapse if these were the tools of the revolutionaries. The extremists currently wage a war of ideas on the moderates. The extremists are winning and drawing supporters even from the West because the moderates are lacking in ideas. To tackle these Islamist extremists/terrorists adequately, we must be prepared to combat them on their own turf. That is to prove the fallacy of their ideals from within and outside Islam.

In recent times, Mazaje has been vocal of his disdain for Islam and concern for increasing extremism in the muslim community. But, regardless of how dire the situation is, Mazaje needs to calm down. I am witness to the fact that a deep disdain or obscession for extremists will only fan the flames and even pull you onto an alternate path of extremism.

George W. Bush was right. Islam has been hijacked by extremists. Though fewer, the extremist have a louder voice and firmer root. Through distortion of Quranic verses already enshrined in the "sacred" Quran exegesis by their historic scholars, oral traditions and biographies fabricated and attributed to the Prophet, the extremists find justification for every heinous act or belief they uphold.

Then, via series of liberal and reform movements, Christianity dominated west broke free of the Church 's hedgemony, embraced progressive values as secularism, democracy, tolerance, gender equity as well as science, medicine and technology.

The muslims were about to follow suit on increasing calls for moderate Islamic ideology that conform with human development, civilisation and urbanisation but before anything could materialise, the extremist sect; Salafism backed by the globalists re-emerged, reviving, enforcing and disseminating a radical interpretation of Islam that have become the official definition of Islam among muslims and non-muslims today.

Comparism between Islam and Christianity on aspects of extremism and radicalism can't be balanced untill we bear in mind that Christianity is 500 years older than Islam. Anyone who dig into histroy can't deny that throughout the middle age, Christianity was no moderate or tolerant than Islam. Under the Church, Christians invaded nations, forced conversions, killed apostates, heretics etc. They persecuted non-christians in their domains, treating them as 2nd class citizens. The Clergy ruled with iron fists, enforcing every rule in the Bible and oral traditions(attributed to Jesus and his disciples), penalising defaulters severely. At the same time, the muslims were also preoccupied with similar savage culture, though to a lesser degree.

OLAADEGBU: Christianity is the only relationship that gives the assurance of heaven as this man is showing.

haven't you met Islamist militants willing to blow off themselves to attain eternal life?

Why not sit and discuss with him or the family?

The one easier to save.

Am nerdy and suffer social anxiety.

Am sorry dear, you r not alone. I did have to part with a love interest recently too. I 'd planned in advance but things never worked out as planned. I 'd been smitten for two year without taking any significant step. But as soon as i was finally getting to address it, it all had to be terminated abruptly.

mizshawny, find a way to get him appease your family.
Do they identify any flaw in him? Get it fixed. How about you? Does the relationship need some tweaking? Readjust.