₦airaland Forum

Hello Spike.

This thread is at the brink of a supernova. . . . . . unless we kill JK first.

You guys have spiralled out of control with your arguments. I do not think this is what Enigma meant to begin with. We're not talking (at least, not I) about occurrences that have no scientific explanations now as if there would be a scientific explanation later. You can't approach the issue of the soul with any kind of science because that's supposed to be on another plane. Jesus' birth is not a mechanism but a specific act. You can't liken that to technology. It just reminds me of the Noah thread. The thing is supposed to be a miracle. Or a grand meteorological event. But it can't simply be both. Science and miracles are immiscible. Miracles defy science and are not compatible with it; that's why they are called miracles. There's no point looking for a common ground.

Belief and faith are not straight forward things. Any miraculous event that can be easily explained by science ceases to be a miracle. There is no need to feel it is wrong to accept that faith is anti-intellectual. It simply is. Even laws that govern our known universe can not really be universal in the truest sense of the word. Different planes have different laws. Religion should keep its nose out of science and Science should keep its nose out of religion. QED.

Oga Nuke! How are you feeling? Much better I hope.

LOL! Unfortunately we have two women who are allergic to George Clooney. You go first then. May your coup not result in a detached atlas bone.

Lol. Don't take my words apart na. I have read Kant's famous book but Kant wasn't always right anyway. The statement was generalist in nature.

I intentionally substituted religion for Christianity because I want you to appreciate what Christianity seems to a non-believer. It's the same way Islam or Hinduism seems to you perhaps. How do you not assume someone who says the world is resting on a cow which is in turn resting on a turtle anti-intellectual? There are/were many great Christian, Muslim and Hindu scientists but they were great scientists in spite of their religions not because of it.

Perforce, lol. I ineluctably deny any eminent association with the highfalutin club. Christianity is not evil or anything but let's call a spade a spade. People sit at home praying when they ought to be at the hospital or think ANYTHING bad that happens is the work of the devil.

The OP sounds more like a submission than an invitation for discussion so I'm not sure I ought to be raining on your parade, so to speak. But I will, lol.

Many many atheist, probably most, become atheist and it is just human psychology that you should be kinda angry at yourself when your have been disillusioned or enlightened. We have a way of romanticizing that which we do not come in contact with and demonizing that which we do come with contact with. That's why you see some old Western writers talk highly of Mohammedans because they are so remote. Surely you won't think cannibals so bad if you read about them in books but if your neighbour's brain becomes some sort of caviar I'm sure your feelings would change. Point of all my banter is this: Many atheists are so angry that they become kinda stupid and obsessed with discrediting religion. I think they ought to but it is a matter of method. Religion by its very nature is of course anti-intellectual since they do not dovetail to form one coherent entity. A Christian is a heathen to a Muslim and vice versa. Replicate this classification to all the major and minor religions of the world. An atheist is anti all religions, Christianity is just another brand of delusion to him, like Pepsi is a brand of cola. He'll never take your word or the bible's that a virgin birth occurred. Many Christians don't even believe this anyway. If you showed him a virgin birth, he'd tell you there's an explanation for it and there probably is. I saw an episode of House in which something like this happened but I'm not sure if it is fable or not.

So, my point is this: Religion IS anti-intellectual. No need to sugar coat it. I believe in God but I know it makes no sense at all. I believe in God with my heart. My head does not believe there's anything beyond that which I can see and that is what is intellectual. What we can see and prove.

P.S. You suppose a lot, lol

Live eh? Is there commentary?

Pein was never evil, just confused.

Reading Room.

Touching story made in the way of old that used to make me think movies were magical.

Probably they are making antivirus programs that can flag addiction bugs

I understand, Okija. Heated arguments only make people foolish and I've seen more than enough to last a lifetime here.

Are you insane? Tens of millions?

Lol. Aww. You should listen to Obinna, JeSoul. We've never had so much small talk on this thread before. Maybe we should review each other. I nominate Kobikwelu for review.

Sage is right. On both counts. Though Madara's plan was to use Akatsuki to fulfill his agenda. Everyone on Akatsuki had a secret agenda. Pein's idea isn't stupid. It's genius. Only the price is too high. I think most characters in Naruto are kinda good. They just have different ways about doing things. Orochimaru too.

Lol. Krayola don turn artiste now. I'm not like him, I don't think. Well, that's an explanation. We seem to have a knack for turning back to evil, don't we?

True that. I didn't know Let Me In draws from Let the Right One In. Let's know how it is when you're done.

v3. Hope you're alright.

I heard one country like that is turning 50 and as such there's a holiday.

If we no review something, anything, in 72hours there'll be a riot o.

InesQor! Get out of my head! I also believe this anyway, assuming there's a spiritual realm. In fact, it probably makes no sense otherwise. I also think its flexible. Like you can slow it down and speed it up, sort of. Please tell me you watched and liked Star Trek. Voyager specifically. And, yes! I made a mistake. I mistook Okija to be Ilosiwaju. My brain saw ju and jumped to its own conclusions. Nevermind I never asked the thing to o. Unfortunately I'm mobile too and can't modify just yet. Too much wahala. I apologise to them both.

Aletheia. Actually people seem to interpret the bible differently. You seem to be pretty straight forward and not like the duplicitous ones I come across often. You see what those ones do is they find some things ridiculous like I do but they either dismiss it as irrelevant to their faith or declare it's an allegory of some sort. A prime example is the Adam and Eve story. Many many Christians now don't believe this story and interpet it in different ways. The six day creation is also not taken literally. People wonder what days would be when there was no sun etc. They say it must be eons. So, you are not guilty of all these guilty standards. Frankly, I appreciate your unapologetic stance. You, InesQor and Nuclearboy don't doubletalk. So I can't provide many examples since you're not a doubletalker and probably take most things as is.

See? The bible merely states that they did it. How refreshing is that. Please, I beg you, never engage Deep Sight o. He'll eat you for breakfast.

Many Christians can't reconcile the mighty Yahweh with the gentle Christ and thus dismiss the OT either as irrelevant or myth or whatever and stick to the NT. In fact the NT is further segregated and they chose the parts that they like. John's gospel is almost unanimously chosen cuz that one has nothing but love, love and more love. Paul is consequently almost unanimously targeted as preaching his own gospel which I agree to but not exclusively.

Of course, God wasn't terrified of anyone. The story only mirrors the anthropomorphic understandings of God in those times. Of what concern is it God that some twits were building a tower? Those stories to me are just a means of explaining the things that were obtainable those days. Like people say rain falls when angels are crying or that Set kills his brother for nightfall to happen and his brother returns the favour for daylight and so on.

I actually believe in God in my heart. My head tells me there's no such thing as God but my head is usually not very smart. I think there's something out there. It's really easy for me to disbelieve in things after I snapped out of indoctrination. I don't know if it's a comfort zone and a false one at that but I'm actually secretely hoping someone will make sense and convince me of something. The harder I disagree, the more compelling the evidence that'll convince me I guess.

Be polite, Ilosiwaju.

I think I agree on your points, strongly in some cases and mildly in others. I agree with them but the first one. I think if you're a believer in God, that people lived that long is not impossible considering as many were giants. Metabolism might be different then. It's not likely but it certainly is not impossible. It's unfair to judge by today's standards.

Lol. You've answered in not answering. It is supposed to change nothing but I'll have to admit it makes you doubly fascinating. I won't refer to it again don't worry. Before I continue, let me say: I'm no scientist. I understand it so I will accept evidence if it is such. But theories are usually just explanations and not proof. So what follows is just my brain doing its thing and cannot be taken more seriously than a regular guy's rambling.

Ah, you don't believe that there's a space station somewhere that just sort of happened? Well, I'm unsure about the parallels but that is how spontaneous life sounds to me.

I'm surprised cuz I guess I just figured you for the type that'd think the universe is infinite hence all the "probability for life is 1". If the universe is not infinite, the probability cannot be one based on sheer amount of matter in existence. The only other way the probability could be one is if time was infinite i.e. has no beginning. And that is untrue (as far as matter is concerned) because the big bang happened some time. The universe is not infinite and the big bang happened at one time, so that means an unimaginable amount of matter has been raging around for a veeeeeeery long time but they're both still finite the same way there's an exact amount of atoms on earth at an instantaneous point in time. Do you get my reasoning?

I think if you believe that the big bang happened then it presupposes that the universe is finite. All it is is extremely unfathomably big and often this is treated as infinity because we are not equipped to even begin to imagine to measure it. Just like a lightyear is virtually infinite compared to a cubit but it is not infinite. I do not know or remember what infinite cardinals are in relations to large ones but mathematics deal with assumptions and abstracts that give us relatively accurate results. For instance when you say something tends towards infinity you treat it as if it was infinity but it is not. It only forever and ever tends towards it. Complex numbers are another example. There's no such thing that will be squared to give a negative but we use these numbers in mathematics and get outta trouble so to speak. They are just concepts, abstractions. So I agree that infinity can get bigger but only in theory. I'll have to go educate myself on this virtual particle thingie. Or can you please put it in layman terms for me here?

The dark matter thing to me is just an explanation for the theory of relativity to be coped with. I liken it to the concentric circles astrologists of old used to put on their planetary systems to account for varying positions. I think there's something to it sha. Don't know what. What about black holes? Do you think they are caused? Do you think they are like miniuniverses? Do you even think they exist?

Aletheia. It seems pretty clear what the bible said. . . . . . . . now, but in other places where it seems equally as clear, things are sometimes explained away as allegory. I agree it seems pretty clear but to me it reads like pretty clear nonsense (forgive me but my candidness is not in bad faith). I suppose the angels changed to human form before coming unto the fair maidens. And those maidens gave birth to children (Nephilims right?) who became giants and would contaminate our gene pool. I'm not even saying it is impossible that such a thing happened but I'd expect it to be an isolated event. If God destroyed virtually everyone, then those angels must have slept with darn near everybody. Including the dudes even.

All, I'm saying is one doesn't have to take ALL of the bible literally, or even seriously. The Noah story has little bearing to being a Christian for instance. If that story didn't exist, it might not change anything. What would you say about the tower of babel for instance? God was terrified those dudes would get to Him? Come on!

In other words, the devil is privy to God's plans and is seemingly very very successful? Well, I agree with you that there's a measure of truth in fictional stuff. It must have started somewhere and snowballed to where we are now. No sweat. I always love your explanations of stuff though. Shows you ask yourself questions if you have a ready answer most of the time. I've heard of the 'set in motion by Satan' thing before but at least you do not deny the similarities which is good.

@InesQor, I do not think the bible is a historical document. So because the bible said so means not much with me. I do not think it is full of lies only as it has plenty truths too. Now you think many civilizations record a great deluge. But you probably don't take their other stories as true now do you? Horus, Attis, Mithra, Dionysus and Krishna all sound like the Jesus of other civilizations but I doubt you accept them in any, way shape or form apart from pure myth. I do not think it's wrong to believe in the bible (else what would be the meaning of faith) but you can only stretch things far enough

Bravo! Now you're the greatest Naruto fan I know

InesQor. I find it very very unlikely that some Hot angels fornicated with humans. If they did, why don't they continue to do so since after the flood. I don't wanna sound like a cynic but I just don't like when we accept speculation proceeding from little proof

Are you a woman or not? Dude is an asexual term nowadays though. I wasn't only not being facetious, I meant a space station that wasn't 'made' by anything. One that was just a results of random asteroids hitting each other or whatever. I'd surprised you think the universe is finite. I'm still undecided about this but if the big bang is to be thoroughly believed, I guess it has to be. Infinity cannot get bigger. This raises another question. I'm no scientist, bear with me. If space is increasing and matter with which it is contained doesn't, what fills the extra space? What do you think of dark matter?

I'm not biased o! Well, yes, I'm partial to non-fiction, I guess

Ah. This is getting all confusing and outta my league. I'll rather not comment lest I sound indignant.

@Oladeegbu. Lol, I fully expected you to be the hook, line, sinker and fishing pole type. You're adorable but often wrong.

The one that can garner most tithing cheese of course.

Absolutely not. Though morality in this case is a misnomer. The proper term is ethics because it is 'moral' to not be gay for instance whilst not being unethical. So in the strictest sense of the word, morality depends somewhat on religion. Doing the right thing does not. Religion brings out good AND bad in people.