₦airaland Forum

Funny thread. Even funnier than some gems in the politics section.

We need industrialization more than ever. It will free us from these chains.




P.S. I have nominated Mark for Honourable Minister of Agriculture of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. His talents are not being utilized in the school where he is now...

Fablady:
Nope..... Dated him for 2 years. And it was not like this during dating. The bond was stronger and we use to do stuff together. Just not happening anymore. He is only interested in me visiting his family with him so they don't ask him y he is coming alone.

^^^^
OP,

There is a limit to how useful the advice you get from on here will be, no matter how well meaning.

From your posts, it seems you had at least some time to get to know your spouse a bit - you courted and got married over a 2 yr period. From what you say, things were not like this when you began. The biggest problem from what I have read up here is your husband's refusal to communicate honestly with you to resolve the problems in your home.

Until that wall is broken down, all you've got is a lot of trial and error, trying to guess what the problem is. As you can see, some posters have said he's seeing someone else. Some say he's lost interest in the marriage. Some say he may just be introverted. Some say he wants out. And so on.

The problem could be all of these things listed, some of them or none of them at all. All I can say from what I can read here is that your husband has to communicate with you to make your marriage work. You are not a mind reader and trying to guess what the problems are (and how to solve them) is of course, a major frustration. Your husband owes you a duty of communicating with you - you are his wife. Even if he is annoyed with you, tired of you or whatever, he owes you a duty of letting you know what his issues are - if indeed he wants the marriage to work.

There is only so much you can do. I do not want to suggest bringing in third parties to mediate yet - sometimes that causes more harm than good. I would suggest you pour out your thoughts, fears and hopes on paper and give them to your husband to read. Take your time and write him a letter - pour out your heart and let him know that he is driving a wedge between you both. A letter may make him less defensive than he would be in a face to face discussion - he can read it without feeling he's being put on the spot. My wife does that sometimes - she puts pen to paper whenever she is upset about something and she can't get through to me. Take your time to write your letter - only you can determine if you want to make it long or short - but let him know that you are reaching the end of your rope. Four years is a long time for you to struggle like this. Try this and get back to us.

You may want to look carefully at some of the advice you have been given here. You are the one married to your husband - you alone know his personality, quirks and foibles. Weigh the advice you have been given very carefully. For example, those suggesting you bring a vibrator to bed may be suggesting something that could backfire spectacularly. It is entirely possible that there are men in this world who might finally recognize your cry for help (if you brought a vibrator to bed) for what it is. There are also some men who might actually welcome this new 'equipment' as 'useful technology' . And it is also very possible that for some other men, your bringing a vibrator could be the kiss of death for your marriage. You are the only one who can predict how your man is likely to respond to stuff like that. Nobody here knows him like you do.

Write that letter to him letting him know that he is leaving you with very few options for resolving your problems. You will have to decide for yourself how you want the tone of your letter to be. Best wishes.

sooperrescue:
No laughing matter o. Once a Volvo achIeve The 100k mleage, from that mark, it is every 6k To change the timing belt. It is not every. Mechanic that can handle Volvo cars. I know how many people have invited Volvo from Ghana because Doyin Motors Refused to continue. For those with issues on Volvo Caro, remember that Volvo also requires Premium unleaded fuel and as you all know the consequence of using low octane fuel. The belt is sold for 4k and combining it with using Synthetic oil makes it a perfect combination of 6k oil change and timing belt replacement every six months

^^^^
This sounds outrageous. Changing the timing belt every 6,000 km??!

Does anyone have the service manual for the model referred to?

You are right about the fuel requirements (89 RON or so) on the S60 but this timing belt story is hard to believe. There are some motorists that cover 6,000 km in less than a month. Changing the timing belt every month would bankrupt them.

onatisi:
she doesn't need or want ur respect. She is respected worldwide already,she is on the list of top 100 influential ppl in the world . 100 ppl out of almost 6billion ppl in the world speaks volumes about her achievement and progress. So better start working ur way up the ladder of success so that one day ppl will respect u. Okonjo iwella dines and sit with kings and world leaders. So bro keep ur respect in ur living room and bedroom and face ur life.

^^^^
No - that's not good enough.

The poster has voiced his dissatisfaction with how his country is being run. He has the right to do so and is speaking the mind of quite a number of Nigerians.

The minister has basically said she is powerless to do anything about a so-called cartel that has ground this country to a halt. Are those not reasonable grounds to question her continued stay in office?

Address the key issues and stop bristling - experienced public officers understand that criticism comes with the territory. Your snide remarks about top 100 influential people and all that can be turned around in such a way that the meaning becomes unrecognizable. Shekau is also on Time's list of the most influential people. Make of that what you will.

Sweetguy25:
Nothing interesting.

It is interesting to those who know what to look for.

atlwireles:
This is the problem I have with fake Nigeria nationalists. Nigeria licensed MTN to operate a GSM 900/1800 frequencies telcom service, gave them nothing but a piece of paper.

Over the years MTN has invested more than $25B cash in Nigeria, for telecom infrastructures. Yet Olisa and people like him think MTN is committing a crime earning money for services they provide. This is the problem in Nigeria, where everyone thinks crude oil is their inheritance and hardwork is for fools only.

^^^^

internetpirate:
That's the pathetic aspect of it all! We claim to be educated yet the North used the simple things of the world to confound the so-called wise!

^^^^

rexbuton:
In fact, it's high time we stopped propagating the theory that the North is foolish.. because they are not at all

^^^^

tete7000:
This issue is really a complex one and one that often makes me shiver anytime I thing about how we are heading. Buhari is coming in and have another four years to give his try. We will wait and see how far he can take us. However at one point in time, someone has to do the right things one of which (though not the only things) is subsidy removal, else we really might continue to dance around the circle, dealing with the same issues year in year out.

^^^^
At least we agree on the part of your post in bold type. It is hard not to imagine that extremely trying times lie ahead of us.

tete7000:
Corruption is the reason why we never have the real profile of costs in our local refining. There is so much lack of transparency that many things are shrouded in secrecy, you are probably aware of the last audit of Pwc and the issues raised within it. Petroleum Industry Bill (PIB) is meant to address some of these hiccups and make the industry open but both of us are aware our legislators have ensured the bill was not passed.
On why the licenced refineries never operated there are four reasons I am aware of:
1. The subsidy as already highlighted already.
2. The issue of crude theft: Pipeline is the cheapest means of transporting crude in the world but it is almost impossible to get crude from one point to another in Nigeria. Even (as reported be Gauis Obaseke then) the govt refineries have to resort to using ships to supply p/h refinery while warri refinery was incapacitated at one time because of this problem. Any other means adds to the cost of transportation and thus to the overall cost of production per litre. If refineries are to compete with those abroad and have to incur all the excessive cost that eventually makes it cheaper to import than produce, how many can come onboard?
3. Hostility of the host community too has not helped. I once spoke to a man who claim he has interest in one the lincenced refineries and he told me how the community walked them out and they couldn't return to do any assessment for more than one year.
4. Non passage of PIB too doesn't help. No one wants to invest in uncertain political environment.
As per what the effect of subsidy would be like. No matter how it is done we initially going to have prices going up since we will be importing and buying at the prevailing international prices but if things are well done and with appropriate control on the part of govt, the operators should be expected to consolidate (like we have in banks) pool resources together and build local refining capacity. If these is done, with time, just like we witnessed in telecom prices are expected to come down.
The work of the minister will be to remove some of the hiccups mentioned above and provide appropriate control and legislation to ensure consumers are not ripped off (we have such in the early days of telecom privatisation). Of course govt must use freed resources and invest in other ammenities to bring succuor to people and provide alternatives to petrol. Finally government have to provide power or else cost of power alone can drive up the cost of production per litre if these operators to generate their own power.
These are tough but with will power, it can be achieved.

^^^^
Good. We are getting somewhere. You have up here a laundry list of issues (other than 'subsidy') that deserve whole chapters of their own. To me - those issues are the elephant in the room.

Unfortunately for us, 'subsidy removal' has attracted the most attention because it is the path of least resistance for government. It is still not clear to me how local refinery licencees can cite downstream sector regulation as a disincentive to investment without Nigerians being told what their operating costs are. Let me repeat again - what does it cost the 4 government refineries (or any of the private operators) to produce a litre of PMS in Nigeria? As things stand, it is possible for me to get the weighted average cost of funds for deposit money banks in Nigeria today from industry reports or the media. Why is it that no one on nairaland boards can get similar operating cost information for oil companies in Nigeria today?

You have listed at least 5 critical reasons why local refining capacity is constrained. Will 'removal of subsidy' take care of these problems? I do not believe so. If the so-called subsidy is removed today, inflation will put severe pressure on this economy. We are importing expensive dollar priced petrol at a time when the Naira is under pressure - if the Naira is devalued (as I suspect it will soon be) then you can imagine what'll happen to the pump price of petrol and the prices of goods and services. Are we ready for that?

Even if we accept the short term pain that comes with subsidy removal - there are no cast-iron guarantees that deregulation will lead to downstream sector investment. This is the area that gives me the most cause for concern. We have been told that the demand for petrol in Nigeria far exceeds local capacity - a textbook case for encouraging investment in local capacity (once 'distortions' like 'subsidies' are eliminated ). However, I believe oil marketers are likely to continue importing expensive fuel even if the 'subsidy' is removed - the cost will simply be passed on to Nigerians. I do not foresee any major investment in local refining capacity - at least in the short to medium term. Oil marketers will forgo the relatively easy business of importation (despite Naira depreciation) for the hard graft of setting up refining plants in Nigeria - in the face of all the problems you listed up here? I doubt it.

You stated your expectation that if the 'subsidy' is removed, operators will consolidate (just like the banks did). Remember though - the banking consolidation was driven by regulation and not market or commercial pressure. Whether oil marketers will consolidate on their own is something that only time will tell.

Summary: if I were the PDP led government I would have started building refineries long ago and slowly started phasing out the so called 'subsidy' on imported fuel once the refineries came on stream. Once the new refineries become fully operational and able to cover local demand (and export) importation would cease. To allay the fears of those who believe the new refineries would collapse like the ones before them, I would contract out the management to private managers. However, because I believe Nigeria's refineries are in a sense, public goods - I would also have adopted a pricing regime for PMS in which pump head prices run within a range or band (somewhat similar to a dirty float exchange rate regime). Crucially, I would ensure that pumphead prices must cover all costs plus a mark up for profit.

How would I have funded this? From excess oil revenues earned during the boom years. Unfortunately, the opportunity was squandered and we are all going to pay the price.

tete7000:
Don't mind the e_diot. People like him are the ones who make social forum a difficult place to converse. They always work to derail topic no matter how educative it is; they are probably high on weeds I guess.
Back to your question, I am never opposed to govt building refining capacity. My argument is that subsidy makes that difficult. Before I explain why I think so, we need to first clarify what subsidy is. To do that I give this scenario: You are a producer of cup, you produced your cup and realised that to make profit you need to sell at N20 but govt has pegged the price at N18. So you sold at N18 and govt refunded your N2 so that you can recover your profit. That N2 is the subsidy. As for the people who said local production doesn't have subsidy on it, I can't affirm or disprove until we know how much their cost of production per litre is. If they make a litre for less the current market price, their is no subsidy else there is. However in the long run what we want is active participation of private sector in our downstream sector just like we are witnessing in the telecom industry now. We create competition and hope that over time competition drives the prices down. While government refineries might be able to survive in current climate, it might be difficult to have private participation we desire. No sensible private investor would want to put his money where he can't look at his cost and determine how much he needs to sell and make profit. Many will argue 'but the shortfall will be reimbursed?'. The question that however follows is 'after how many months?' We see the war currently going on. Marketers have imported long ago but they are currently just being paid, that is even after a protest. Money has lost its value since, exchange rate has gone up, loans taken have accrued interests. It is a tough environment for private participation. As per the issue of govt refineries, those who hold the money down will always ensure govt refineries don't work and we thus need to import. I am really looking forward to how Gen. Buhari will tackle the imbroglio.

^^^^
The parts of your post in bold type are the key issues for me.

There is no disputing the fact that there is a subsidy on imported petroleum products in Nigeria. What is less clear is whether there is a subsidy on locally drilled and refined fuel. For ages I have requested for the cost of producing and refining a litre of fuel in Nigeria. Not surprisingly, that information has grown wings and fled to the sky. Despite the information overload in government circles on the need for 'subsidy removal', there is zero information on the cost profile of domestic oil production and refining. The government has refused to provide this information in a clear and unambiguous manner, despite running 4 refineries. Why? Isn't this information central to the discussion? If indeed there isn't a subsidy on local production, then shouldn't efforts be in that direction?

It is clear that some Nigerians do not want the government to run refineries and they do not want any price cap or ceiling on refined petroleum products. But there are alternatives: the government can build the refineries and have them run under private management contracts. Perhaps the sticky point here is that some of us do not want to entertain the concept that the refineries could be classed as public goods.

Licenses were granted to oil producers to refine petroleum products locally. The public has not been told why these licencees failed to deliver. What were their reasons for failing to commence operations? The last part of your post which I highlighted in bold type is for me, the key issue: the failure of government to rein in official corruption. What we fail to understand is that this failure to rein in corruption will simply be transferred to other government services even if 'fuel subsidy' is removed. We still have the civil service, government ministries, departments and agencies. We still have the police and the armed forces. Are we going to deregulate these too?

I have a couple of questions for those of us in this debate: if indeed the 'subsidy' on imported fuel were to be removed today 2nd May 2015, what would be the effects on the oil sector and the larger economy?

If you were the president or oil minister and you believe 'subsidy' should go, how would you execute this policy and what would you do? Can you state how you expect things to play out in the short to long term?

And if you were the oil minister/president and you believe the 'subsidy' should stay, what would you do, starting today, 2nd May, 2015?

If you have a different set of policies - different from the above (perhaps in your view there isn't a 'subsidy' at all) - what are they and how would you implement them, today 2nd May 2015?

tete7000:
Diesel is not the only derivative of crude oil and as such deregulating diesel alone won't bring needed investment into the refining industry. How can people refine and derive multiple products, sold one of those products in a competitive market while others are regulated? If we want investments in our refineries, we need to have a total deregulation.
To say diesel didn't benefit at all from deregulation is far from truth. Diesel doesn't suffer regular scarcity as petrol and kerosene do. Although I wouldn't know if price of diesel responds to international price fluctuation as I am not a user of diesel but I expects it should. However for now it is going to be difficult for us to have diesel price drop yet as we still heavily depend on product importation and also because its importation is still somehow linked with importation of other products.

^^^^
You have raised some interesting points. I'm no geologist or pet. engineer but this link (http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/first-private-refinery-begins-operation-in-rivers-state/103803/) seems to support the idea that the deregulation of diesel has attracted investment into the sector without any adverse effects from regulated pricing of PMS. Unfortunately, I have no way of independently verifying NDPR's claims. I also always thought that PMS is a guaranteed product of fractional distillation - if it is so, then what does NDPR do with its PMS and DPK/AGO? Perhaps the experts could shed more light on this?

A key point from your post is that investment in local refining capacity is constrained because of the partial deregulation of the downstream sector. Is this really so?

It would be good for those with access to diesel pumphead prices to upload details on here to see if diesel pumphead prices in Nigeria have declined since the fall in global crude prices. (Lets leave out the exchange rate dilemma for now...)

tete7000:
I have hope that you know the person you re talking to but no need. Having an anonymous forum enables some of you high on weed to come and talk and feel you can insult others. Enjoy and reel in your stupidity. Bye

^^^^


That fellow ruined the thread. It was a fairly civil exchange in which opposing sides tried to state their positions clearly without rancour until that fellow barged in violently, cursing other posters out for no reason at all. The worst part of it is that he is all over the place - I really can't place him or what exactly he is trying to say.

As to the thrust of your argument about the need to remove 'subsidies'... my argument is that there will be no need for subsidies on imported fuel if local refining capacity is built. A few posters here claim that there is no subsidy on locally produced fuel. Then why are we having this discussion? Build refineries here in Nigeria and the need to import disappears.

Or could it be that you are against the idea of the government building refineries? You don't think that these refineries would qualify to be called public goods of some sort?

MizMyColi:
Your reply has caused me to read up.
Thanks, I'm enlightened.

^^^^

jpphilips:
You have managed to ask the right question, AGO price will NEVER fall in Nigeria unless there is a drastic government intervention, this present govt will not intervene because they have already lied that removing subsidy will bring competition that will drive down the price.
The sad news is this; THERE IS NO COMPETITION IN THE DOWNSTREAM SECTOR AT THAT LEVEL.

About the Global crude pricing, Nigeria has two major issues, a drop in crude prices and a devalued currency, both attract subsidies, now listen to okonjo iweala herself from the article we just read;



if you understood this part of that article, you will realize that most of your questions have been answered. Why will you expect drop in crude price to affect the price of AGO when you just devalued your currency??
The Govt is not always stup!d, we as citizens should try to understand better what is going on in our country before trading blames.

^^^^
I am not sure you really understand my position on quite a few of these issues being discussed. Perhaps you should go through my posts again.

Billyonaire:
Built by who ? Who should build the refinery ? Government is unable, world over to manage businesses. Nationalism is a wrong economic model; Capitalism with government holding minor equity in the consortium for regulatory mandate has been the successful model globally. Then, if Capitalism is the way forward, who is a Capitalist ? Majorly private investors or foreign direct investors in JV partnership with local enterpreneurs. Good, that takes us to profiteering. The sole aim of doing business, for a capitalist is profit, and so, if the Government of Nigeria is paying subsidy, only a mad man will put his money where there is government subsidy cos at the end of the day, its like building a restaurant close to the welfare foodstamp place. Who wants to come and buy your food, when there is free good food served on the same location.

Listen, I didnt make money being ignorant, I didnt make money being emotional. I study every model and module and research before I make statements on this issue. Unless and until the Government stops subsidy, not even Dangote will start building refineries. Why should I build refinery in Nigeria under government subsidy when other countries are begging me to build it there and sell at higher price regime ?

This is not about politics, this is business.

^^^^
Interesting but flawed analysis.

Your sermons about nationalism being a flawed model (whatever that means) fall in the face of the evidence. The shining example of Norway's state owned oil giant shreds your argument. What magic did Statoil perform? Didn't the Norwegian government (over 60% equity in Statoil) build Norway's refineries (through a number of arrangements including JVs)? Did they import martians to do it?

We do not even have to use Norway as the sole example. What of Petrobras? Petronas? Aramco? How do they do it? Rather than make sweeping generalizations such as 'governments are unable, world over to manage business', you should say Nigerian governments are unable to manage business. The next assignment will be for Nigerians to ask WHY this is so .

Spare me the crowing about your informed, objective, money making abilities. This isn't the thread for it.

989900:
How much does it cost to produce a litre of PMS, and DPK through our local refineries?

I think the drift is straightforward.

^^^^
I am a bit surprised at his answer. I genuinely do not have any information on the costing of (locally drilled and refined) PMS. His cryptic remarks about 'every Nigerian who cares has it' are baffling, to say the least.

jpphilips:
AGO has been deregulated DPK still attract subsidy.

For now, I will leave the question of why DPK pricing policy has continued to somersault. Since AGO was deregulated some years ago has there ever been a shortage of the product and why? I would also like it if you could provide information of the extent to which AGO pump head prices have declined in Nigeria since the global price of crude fell.

I would also like your comments on the rest of my post about costing of locally produced petroleum products.

jpphilips:
Why does the government need to prove that to you when the Govts position is in line with common sense!! now tell us, why do you think that Locally refined products should not attract a subsidy?

^^^^
I have not said locally refined products should or should not attract a subsidy. What I have asked for is the cost profile of domestic/local drilling and refining - information which has suspiciously remained inaccessible to Nigerians for far too long. The current price of PMS at the pumphead is N87. If all costs of domestic/local production and refining plus a markup is less than N87, then where is the subsidy?

The information we need to have is the cost of producing and refining a litre of PMS locally. Is it more than, equal to, or less than N87? That's all I'm asking for!!!

tete7000:
If the market is appropriately deregulated and enough market operators licensed, you can't have arbitrary price increase because competition forces the price down. It is the situation we have now whereby NNPC controls the market and prices that discourage competition. If I may ask you: As an individual, can you invest in a market that fix price and discourages you from making immediate profit on your investment? Marketers buy products, sell at govt price and wait for months to get the excess they incurred. Within that period their money is held down and they can't turn it around. If you do basic economics, you will know money has time value and holding peoples' money down itself is a discouragement to investment. Many people who would have invested in the downstream of our oil sector would because of that rather invest their money elsewhere where they can immediately get return on their money. One of the real reasons why about eleven private refineries licensed by Obasanjo never took off.
It is not marketers that prevent refineries from working, it is people in government who benefit from importation created by a regulated economy. If the market is deregulated, many of the marketers have a lot to gain by pooling resources together to build refineries than continuously depending on importation. Subsidy effectively creates corruption and even if you choose to run after the cabals, the money that would be spent chasing them itself is going to enormous and can be invested elsewhere. Why don't we just deregulate, open the market to competition and save ourselves all these stress.

^^^^
The key question I have asked several times is this: what are the unit costs per litre of producing and refining petroleum products here in Nigeria? Is there a subsidy on local drilling and refining of petroleum products in Nigeria? That is the question on which everything else turns but the authorities have refused to provide an answer.

If petroleum companies can drill and refine locally, add margins for distribution and profits, etc., and all this comes to less than the pump head price of N87 or whatever then there is NO subsidy. Period.

Your comments about petroleum marketers buying products and having their money tied down (while waiting for subsidy reimbursements) are for those who import refined petroleum products. Once the true cost profile of domestic drilling and refining of petroleum products becomes public knowledge then the scales will fall off our eyes. Even on this thread, some fellow has admitted that there is no subsidy on local drilling and refining. What does that tell you?

You raise an important point about the eleven private refineries that were licensed and yet never started operations. It would be interesting to know if any or all/some of these licensees are currently involved in petroleum products importation. What reasons have they given for failing to start operations? Has the government asked why? Have they failed to start operations because these licensees have their eyes on the extremely profitable PMS importation racket - a racket that will disappear if the government were truly serious about ending it (by building refineries itself)?

We were told some years ago that the market for kerosene and diesel had been completely deregulated. Yet in the intervening period we have had scarcity of both diesel and kerosene - products which had supposedly been fully deregulated. How do you explain that? All over the globe, petroleum products prices have been declining at the pump head because of the fall in crude prices. What do you have to say about the price of diesel and kerosene in Nigeria - why have they not fallen in line with the rest of the world?

Burger01:
Ohhkay. But, should there be subsidy on locally produced and refined petroleum products

^^^
We cannot answer that question until we know if a subsidy actually exists. That's why we need the government to come clean.

Billyonaire:
You should have saved yourself this lengthy grammar by just looking up the word 'importers' in the dictionary. Only importers are paid, what ever is produced locally is not paid. And even at 100% capacity, our 4 refineries can not produce enough for our generators not to talk about cars.

^^^^
Sir, perhaps you would deign to explain the meaning of the word 'importer' to me?

Let us go with what you have said. According to you, only importers are paid fuel subsidy and even at 100% capacity, our 4 refineries cannot cope with local demand. Then the question is: why have new refineries not been built? Answer that if you can.

MizMyColi:
I think I agree with your post to a large extent.
Please what are your thoughts on the PIB that hasn't been passed? Perchance, if it were passed, would it ameliorate the subsidy issues? Especially the queues at filling stations?
Please school me.

^^^

School you? I'm no expert.


I agree broadly with the provisions of the PIB. Its been a while since I looked at its provisions in detail (particularly since there were so many versions of it flying about) but I support the provisions on local content, HSE and regulation of IOCs. However, there are some sections I disagree with.

I disagree with the vesting of ownership of petroleum resources in the federal government. Ownership should reside in individual landowners/communities and taxes/royalties should be paid to municipal, state and federal governments. I recognize that this will require changes to Nigerian law - the Land Use Act for one will have to be amended for my suggestion to have any effect. Whether this will happen now or in the next 1000 years is anybody's guess.

I am also concerned about the powers granted (section 191) to the President to grant PPLs and PMLs in so-called 'special circumstances'. These discretionary powers are one of the root causes of the problems in the sector today. Where is the oversight? What constitutes 'special circumstances'? The President also has broad sweeping powers to hire and fire board and agency members at will. Have we not learnt anything?

I strongly disagree with the exemption of the NPAMCL from the Fiscal Responsibility Act and the Public Procurement Act. How does this serve the public interest?


As to whether the PIB will solve subsidy issues and fuel queues - I have to admit I am a bit unsure. The Bill speaks extensively about gas pricing but doesn't go into similar detail on refined petroleum products - it simply says that downstream petroleum pricing will be deregulated. Curiously, it also states that the regulatory agency will set cost benchmarks for downstream operations. What this means in actual implementation remains unclear.

Burger01:
Guy, simply put, millions of dollars are being raked in from this subsidy scam. Like I said, subsidy is nothing but money siphoning conduit for the thieving cabals. What baffles me is how and why precedent governments had refused to put our refineries in shape..except of course that benefit few pockets in the government and their alibabas. I don't trust this government. What I want to see is total hauling of our refineries by naija engineers. We have resources capable of putting the refineries back to shape BUT the cabals won't allow for that...they can't allow for truncation of their subsidy scam.. Subsidy must go...and go ASAP

^^^^
Be careful when you say 'subsidy must go'... or those who support the wholesale plunder going on will take those words and run with them. The question you should be asking is for the government to prove there is a subsidy on locally produced and refined petroleum products. Everything else turns on this question. If there is no subsidy on locally produced fuel there is absolutely no reason for routine, continuous importation of costly, dollar denominated refined petroleum products from other oil exporting countries. It makes absolutely no sense to do this.

Avoid repeating slogans or soundbites such as 'subsidy must go' without exploring and understanding the real issues behind them...or you unwittingly become an accomplice to those who have an agenda...

Burger01:
Subsidy has got to go. Remove subsidy and let's know what we are facing. Rome was not built in a day. We should be sensitised and palliatives put in place to cushion the effects of subsidy removal. Subsidy must go. It's a thieving conduit for the subsidy cabals.

^^^^
There is a subsidy on imported fuel. Agreed. The landing cost on Nigerian shores of a litre of refined PMS from Venezuela, Norway, Iraq or wherever is definitely above N87 or N97 or whatever price of the month we are being charged for it. The figures are on the PPRA website - the landing cost as at yesterday was N114.76. By the time distribution margins (totalling N15.49 as at yesterday) are factored in, the cost per litre of imported fuel stood at N130.25 as at yesterday, 28th April 2015. The government foots the bill for the difference between this so called 'open market price' of N130.25 and the pump head price of N87.

But is there a subsidy on locally produced and locally refined fuel? This is a question that the government has refused to answer clearly. After several years of controversy on this matter, successive Nigerian governments have refused to come clean on exactly how much it costs to drill and refine a litre of fuel here in Nigeria. Why is it so hard to release this information to Nigerians in a clear and unambiguous manner?

Because if the cost per litre of locally refined PMS (plus distribution margins) is less than the pump price of N87 or N97 or whatever, then there is NO subsidy on locally produced fuel, plain and simple. This is the information that has been carefully hidden from Nigerians for donkey years. The Obasanjo government hid this information. The Jonathan and Yaradua governments also hid this information. Why?

Because access to this information will raise questions as to WHY these governments refused to build local refineries and instead chose to enrich private interests through opaque fuel import license agreements. Fuel import licence agreements that give jobs and revenue to norwegian, venezuelan and iraqi governments and citizens. Fuel import licence agreements that give jobs and revenue to international shipping companies to move refined petroleum products to a country (Oh! Nigeria!) that has the raw crude sitting right under her soil. Fuel import licence agreements that enrich global oil traders like glencore.

If there is indeed a subsidy on locally produced fuel then the government should prove it with facts and figures if they can. The truth will make us free.

x2lambo:
but he was only a Lagos state governor that's all he is not the only politician all I'm saying is what everyone assume he is corrupt when he is not found guilty of any corruption case whereas there are many politicians who are found guilty and no one is talking about those ones but all interested in tinubu case bode George alamesia ibori and many others let's leave this man alone he is not out problem nigeria problems start within we always wants to blame others even though none of us are clean

^^^^
You say none of us (I assume you refer to those of us on this thread) is clean. That is true. But then we are not running for public office. The standards are higher (or they should be) for those aspiring to leadership. That's just the way it is.

Not everyone has assumed Tinubu is corrupt. At least I haven't. It is precisely to avoid dangerous blanket assumptions that it is necessary for full disclosure of the man's affairs. That is all I am asking for.

It is because the PDP treated these matters with levity that it is the wilderness today.

The matter is very simple: what were the terms of tinubu's settlement with the US government in 1993? Surely you and other supporters of the man cannot be comfortable when US government/court documents (referencing this settlement) boldly state that it was related to narcotics trafficking? Or are you comfortable with that?

x2lambo:
why do you want full disclosure with him between the USA and tinubu by the way I'm not saying tinubu is a saint as far as I am concern no one is a saint even you and I PDP attacks on Tinubu is just too much he has being to court whereas there are ex convict in PDP who has national pardon but tinubu has never being convicted so if PDP keeps on the attach on him while having ex convicts in there party that makes no sense at all this kind of politics is just bad for our society

^^^^
There should be full disclosure because he is a former public office holder and a kingpin of a political party that has the president-elect and a legislative majority in its fold. Public interest in his life and affairs IS proper and legitimate.

This has nothing to do with the PDP. I am not a PDP member - the very thought of that is laughable. I simply wish to hold accountable mr tinubu and others who intend to run this country on my behalf. That's all.

x2lambo:
why everyone is interested in tinubu a life he is not a president nor a governour the same people shouting tinubu is corrupt are the same people celebrating ex convict like bode gorge alamesia and many PDP ex convict . Leave tinubu Alone

^^^
No.

I have never 'celebrated' messrs george and alamiyeseigha. All I want is full disclosure on the case between tinubu and the US government in 1993 and the terms of settlement.

I am not asking for too much.


P.S. Some of those who purport to support mr tinubu on this board have a nasty habit of viciously attacking anyone who asks legitimate questions about their principal. One of them is on this very thread. I can assure him that he is wasting his time - his childish invective simply strengthens my resolve to get the bottom of cases such as this one involving his principal.

The truth shall make us free.

tbaba1234:
And he kept $1million. It was a win win situation for Tinubu.

I am not saying, he is guilty or innocent. He is presumed innocent until he is convicted. In this case, he was not even indicted.

^^^^
The only way this matter can be settled conclusively would be for all the court records to be retrieved and carefully examined.

Yes indeed it appears Mr Tinubu was not indicted. But you don't just turn over half a million dollars to the US government for nothing. What was the nature of the settlement between mr tinubu and the US government for him to pay such a large sum of money to the authorities as far back as 1993?

The online references to court documents on this matter list the subject matter as narcotics trafficking or drug related. This is serious stuff. It is foolish for Tinubu's supporters to come on here insulting anyone who raises legitimate questions about this case. Not everyone has time for petty politics.

The truth will out.

x2lambo:
Most of you people calling tinubu names are even worst I see no saint here we should be careful with the way we accuse people expecially if we don't have any evidence because nobody holly pass take it or leave it tinubu remains the biggest politician of our time

^^^^
That's not good enough. The proper thing to do is to request for full disclosure on the matter. So far, this has not been done.

jaybee3:
What do you think would happen if you travel to any sane country without declaring an above limit currency amount and can't provide evidence of where the money came from at their border?

A suspicion is not a crime

^^^^
Under declaration of currency volumes is not the case here. The matter Tinubu was involved with was far more serious.

tbaba1234:
He was not charged with a felony, he did not appear before a grand jury. How is that an indictment.

This is from the daily beast article:

There’s no evidence that Tinubu was ever indicted for any crime. He eventually settled with the district court, turning over $460,000 of the seized $1.4 million, with the remainder released back to him. The Beast tried repeatedly to contact Marsha McClellan, the U.S. attorney who prosecuted the case, but was unsuccessful.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/27/nigeria-s-next-leader-s-ties-to-a-heroin-ring.html?via=mobile&source=twitter

^^^^
The questions we should be asking are: what were the terms of that 'settlement'?