₦airaland Forum

omokab:
I so much like reading a write up like this.Tinibu is a very brilliant man and somebody who want development for the nation.He loves and cater for the masses.

^^^^

kaboninc:
Yeah, thanks.

Government needs to raise revenue. Taxing is just one of the various ways government uses in generating revenue to meet certain obligations. Problem would be what should be taxed and what shouldn't and for that which should be taxed, at what rate? Also the implications of taxing across a large spread of wealth distribution.

^^^^
My comments about government taxation were tongue in cheek. I was trying to convey the point that governments generally tax across the board - they tax both production and consumption and don’t differentiate between the two – it means more money in government coffers. However, when it comes to governments having to subsidize production and consumption - they suddenly become more prudent and begin to differentiate between the two...

kaboninc:
I never made any broad claim "that consumption subsidies are unsustainable" but it just doesn't make sense to to continue subsidizing commodities that are very costly. Remember, our commodity in focus in this discus is PMS and Kerosene. I am of the view that it makes more economic sense to apply the funds used in subsidizing such commodities (which we currently import) in building industries that can produce these commodities locally. However, because of our experience with running public enterprises, the funds should be either used to support investors (probably through guarantees) who are willing to come in or concentrate on other critical infrastructural needs.

^^^^
But you DID make a specific claim about consumption subsidies being unsustainable. Its up there in your earlier post. You want me to quote you verbatim? But more important to the discussion – in your post up here you state your opposition to subsidies because they are ‘very costly’. Are you only against subsidies that are 'very costly'? Is that the only criterion for opposing a subsidy? But that is not even the issue here. For the hundredth time - the problem here is a subsidy on imported fuel. Build local refineries and the subsidy problem disappears. End of story.

kaboninc:
I still disagree that government should build refineries but rather provide "an enabling environment for companies to flourish". And yes, I do have an answer to if I support privatization and deregulation of the armed forces and the police. My answer is simple. NO! The Armed Forces and Police are not public enterprises in the sense that they are not business entities and so questions about privatization and deregulation shouldn't arise.

^^^^
You insist that government should not build refineries. You still maintain your support for that cynical old cliché about government “providing an enabling environment...” and yet you do not support the deregulation and privatization of the armed forces/police because “they are not business entities”. My next question for you is this: what should the government do about its teaching hospitals, public schools, universities, and road infrastructure? Should they be privatized or not? And if as you say, the government should not build refineries then it should not renovate or build or a single new hospital, public school or university again. Ever. The private sector can do these things equally well or even better, right?

kaboninc:
The government is having problem running efficiently the Civil Service, Ministries, Departments and Agencies. So how then can it run efficiently public enterprises? Corruption cannot be stamped out in any government institution but it can be controlled and minimized. NNPC is just a fat cash cow. Fatter than the CBN, Army and the Police combined.

^^^^
I am glad that you agree that the government is doing a very poor job of running its MDAs. You also agree that our public enterprises have also been very poorly run. Where you and I disagree is the solution. Nigerians want their government to get its act together and enforce the laws on the statute books. Fire non-performers and put embezzlers in jail – whether they are in charge of MDAs or state owned enterprises. Simple. This is one of the first things I believe a serious government in Nigeria should do. You on the other hand believe that the privatization of public enterprises is a magic wand and it will somehow, someway lead to sanity in the way the government administers its MDAs. I say no. Privatizing public enterprises will NOT necessarily stamp out corruption in the MDAs. What is the link? Treat the cause and not the effect. I am going to repeat the same point I made earlier: it is the same set of high level administrative and management skills that are required to properly manage MDAs AND public enterprises.

kaboninc:
Good you mentioned Statoil and Norway. Norway, Denmark are some of the countries with the least cases of corruption why? Not because they are saintly or angelic but because the government put in place measures to PREVENT fraud. Same with other countries and that is the same thing this administration is doing. Remember the Ghost Workers Syndrome?

^^^^
Your point about fraud prevention measures by Nordic countries addresses one half of the question. The other side of the question is that these countries also have a penal code and they enforce it - something Nigeria has failed to do. As for your comments about GEJ’s “fraud prevention efforts...” - these comments by GEJ supporters are part of the reason why he lost. Nigerians wanted GEJ to punish offenders and all they got were speeches.

Your comments about the reasons for bailing out the DISCOs and GENCOs simply generate (no pun intended) laughter. I won’t even go into the contradictions of the CBN having to bail out (yes, because that’s what it is: a bail out ) privately held commercial interests who just acquired state-owned assets in a so-called privatization exercise. Do you realize that your distinction between the CBN and the federal government is, to put it bluntly, irrelevant? Are you aware that there is an opportunity cost to the CBN guarantee on the $213 billion intervention fund? Are you aware that there will be consequences for the CBN (and ultimately taxpayers) if there is a default?

kaboninc:
I'll make more research on Statoil and Norway's petroleum industry regulator. But am very sure that Statoil is only a player and not a regulator.

^^^^
Statoil IS a player and a regulator.

kaboninc:
The energy needs of most or all major/large manufacturing companies in Nigeria, from the Consumer Goods, Plastic, Health, Automobile, Steel, Oil and even banks are powered by diesel or gas not even PMS. So is their logistics. Taking a way subsidy will only increase cost of doing business in the retail distribution sector and other informal business. However, the effect will be strongly felt within a short while but later on, with time, prices will adjust to a true-like value. Note that diesel is deregulated.

^^^^
Diesel is deregulated and yet there were shortages over the last few weeks? Why?

Time will tell.

Interesting thread - read through from start to finish. Even if the pictures on page 1 were from an unrelated event from long ago (as some have said here), this thread has given valuable insights into Benin City/Edo state/Nigeria. It has been an education. Combine the information on this thread with the info on the Uniben/Ekosodin thread and you can paint a fairly accurate picture of things in Uniben/Benin City/Edo State.

The future looks very bleak for this country. Very bleak.

Revolution:
Now we know OBJ was correct when he confirmed last month that GEJ was afraid of prison. See below



Jonathan afraid Buhari will jail him — Obasanjo

Former President Olusegun Obasanjo on Saturday alleged that President Goodluck Jonathan had a grand plan to scuttle the coming elections for fear that if General Muhammadu Buhari(retd) of All Progressives Congress succeeds him, Buhari would send him to jail.

He said this at his Hilltop presidential residence in Abeokuta, Ogun State while talking with journalists. He said he broke his promise not to talk till after the elections because the elections were postponed.

Obasanjo spoke just as Nobel laureate and playwright, Prof. Wole Soyinka, warned President Goodluck Jonathan not to use security agencies to scuttle the current democratic dispensation.

Soyinka’s warning to Jonathan was contained in a letter he sent to one of our correspondents on Saturday.

In another letter that was made public on Saturday, former chairman of the National Population Commission, Chief Festus Odimegwu, called on Jonathan to ensure that the polls were free and fair.

Obasanjo, who just returned from foreign trips, said, “I believe the President’s fear is particularly motivated by whom he sees as his likely successor, that is, Gen. Muhammadu Buhari. I believe people would have been telling him that Buhari is a hard man; he will fight corruption and he (Jonathan) may end up in jail if not in the grave. I think people would have told him that sort of thing and he is not the only one afraid of Buhari.”

But Obasanjo said Buhari should have learnt his lessons and might not be contemplating sending people to jail to fight corruption.

“If he has not learnt his lessons, he would be probably the most unlearning human being. Now if he has learnt his lessons, he will know that you do not fight corruption by putting people in jail for 200 years. This was done by my predecessor in office, Gen. Abdulsalami Abubakar. He recovered over $750m from Abacha’s estate without putting anybody in jail and without harming or hurting anybody.

“When I took over, we recovered over $1.25bn from the same Abacha without hurting anybody and without harming anybody. What is rather unfortunate is the fact that our lawyer who is still alive, who was chasing this money all over the world, said to us that there was still well over $1bn to be recovered from the Abacha estate.”

On the allegation that Jonathan had a grand plan to scuttle the coming polls, Obasanjo likened Jonathan to the former president of Cote d’lvoire, Laurent Gbagbo, who shifted election dates until he believed the odds were in his favour.

Obasanjo said, “President Jonathan has a grand plan to ensure that he wins the election by hook or crook and if he loses, he scuttles it and brings chaos and confusion in the whole country.

“It looks to me that the President is trying to play (Laurent) Gbagbo. Gbagbo was the former President of Cote d’Ivoire and Gbagbo made sure he postponed the election in his country until he was sure he would win and then allowed the election to take place. He got an inconclusive election in the first ballot and I believe this is the sort of thing Nigeria may fall into if I am right in what I observed as the grand plan.

“Then in the run-off, Gbagbo lost with 8 per cent behind (Alassane) Quattara and then refused to hand over. All reasonable persuasion and pleading was rebuffed by him and he unleashed horror in that country until nemesis caught up with him. I believe that we may be seeing the repeat of Gbabgo or what I called Gbagbo saga here in Nigeria, I hope not.”

Obasanjo noted that the Chairman of the Independent National Electoral Commission, Prof. Attahiru Jega, must have been boxed to a corner by the powers that be, before announcing the postponement of the elections.

He recounted how world leaders confronted him over political developments in the country, saying, “I was away because I had a number of assignments abroad which took me to Morocco, Munich, Nairobi, London and New Delhi. Exactly a week today, when we were in Munich for what they called the Munich security conferences annual event, everyone in the security community was there.

“I refused to make any categorical statement on this issue because I wanted to come back home and learn what actually transpired and what was going on, and it turned out to be a forced decision on the INEC, because it was alleged that the security chiefs were unable to provide security and as a result, the Chairman of INEC had to postpone the elections, in accordance with the dictates of the so-called security chiefs.

“For me, that was a bad precedent for democracy in Nigeria. It meant it doesn’t matter what preparation or lack of preparation any electoral body could make in Nigeria, the final decision on whether election will take place on the day scheduled for it lies in the domains of the security, it is a sad day for democracy in Nigeria.”

He said he was worried that President Jonathan had said in his recent media chat that he knew nothing about the postponement of the elections.

“I want to believe that this was forced on them (security chiefs). I want to believe that whether it was forced on them or it was their initiative, it was bad, very bad. I hope we will never have a repeat performance of this in this country again.

“It was even made worse when the President in the media chat on the 11th of this month claimed not to have knowledge or not to have authorised it. I get worried, very worried that if the President of Nigeria is not in charge of security, maintenance of law and order and such a decision can be taken behind him, assuming that it is true, then the President must be reigning and not ruling.”

While puncturing a hole in the excuse of the Boko Haram insurgency as a reason for the postponement, Obasanjo said it remained to be seen how the war against Boko Haram which could not be won since 2009, could be won in six weeks.

Obasanjo also appealed to the two leading political parties, Peoples Democratic Party and the All Progressives Congress not to heat up the polity.

He said, “I have offered some warnings but let me also offer some appeals and the appeals for me will be for President Goodluck Jonathan. I appeal to him not to do anything to destroy the fledgling democracy that we are enjoying, democracy is not a destination. It is a process and the more we strengthened the process of democracy, the institutions and the factors, the better it is for us.”

In its reaction, the Presidency on Saturday said it was aware of a plot by Obasanjo and some unnamed persons within and outside the country to thwart the forthcoming general elections and foist an unconstitutional Interim National Government, which Obasanjo hopes to head, on the nation.

Special Adviser to the President on Media and Publicity, Dr. Reuben Abati, said this in a statement made available to journalists in Abuja.

Abati said, “We find the false claims and allegations reportedly made against President Goodluck Jonathan by Chief Olusegun Obasanjo on Saturday in Abeokuta very odious and repugnant.

“As we have had cause to say before, it is most regrettable indeed that a man like Chief Obasanjo, who should know better, chooses to repeatedly, wantonly, and maliciously impugn the integrity of a sitting President of his country for the primary purpose of self-promotion.

“It is obvious from Chief Obasanjo’s serial vituperations against President Jonathan who is doing his best to positively transform Nigeria for the benefit of all of its people that he has willfully chosen to close his eyes to the present administration’s good works and intentions. For reasons best known to him, Chief Obasanjo has set his mind on regime change by fair or foul means.

“Otherwise, it would be completely senseless, irrational and out of place for Chief Obasanjo, who still claims to belong to the same party as the President, to accuse President Jonathan of plotting to win the rescheduled presidential elections by ‘hook or crook’ and planning to plunge the nation into crisis if he loses the election.

“For the record, President Jonathan has no such intention and will continue to give the greatest possible support to INEC and other relevant federal agencies to ensure that the rescheduled elections are successfully conducted.

“Chief Obasanjo’s plot with others within and outside the country to thwart the general elections and foist an unconstitutional Interim National Government, which he hopes to head, on the nation is well known to us, but by the Grace of God Almighty, his odious plan to return to power through the backdoor will fail woefully.”

Also, the Peoples Democratic Party Presidential Campaign Organisation said it was not true that Jonathan was planning to retain power at all cost.

Its Director of Media and Publicity, Mr. Femi Fani-Kayode, said this in a statement.

He said, “It is sad and unfortunate that President Olusegun Obasanjo, a father of the nation and a man that we all revere and have immense respect for, could have misread the situation so badly.

“It is simply not true that President Goodluck Jonathan wishes to remain in power at all costs and the suggestion that he has a hidden agenda or that he somehow imposed his will on INEC by getting them to postpone the elections is baseless and absurd.”

In a related development, Soyinka, in his letter titled, ‘Under-reading violence’, noted that the use of security operatives to intimidate the populace other than to protect them, is a “new low in the life of this nation,” adding that it is a serious threat to the future of democracy in Nigeria.

“It bodes ill even for the postponed elections. Is the postponement truly to ensure enfranchisement for the entire electorate or to fine-tune a new strategy for the absolute and total cooption of the uniformed services?” Soyinka asked.

The Nobel laureate also flayed the deployment of soldiers to the Lagos house of a chieftain of the major opposition party, the All Progressives Congress, Asiwaju Bola Tinubu.

The human rights activist reminded Jonathan of how security operatives allegedly prevented the then governor of Ekiti State, Kayode Fayemi, “from exercising his civil rights.”

Concluding his letter, Soyinka called on the President to lift the military siege on his political opponents before it is “too late.”

In the same vein, Odimegwu who ran into trouble with Jonathan’s government when he faulted the 2006 census, raised the alarm over the safety of Buhari, saying Jonathan, Nigerians should secure his safety to avoid a replication of what happened to the late business mogul, Chief MKO Abiola, following the controversies which trailed the June 12, 1993 Presidential election.

Odimegwu, a former chairman of Nigerian Breweries Plc, in a blunt article entitled, ‘The challenges before President Buhari’ which he e-mailed to SUNDAY PUNCH in Abuja, advanced seven reasons why Buhari would be a better choice for Nigeria.

According to him, Buhari is dreaded by many that have looted Nigeria dry, adding,”I am happy in this worthy company of free citizens of the world and institutions that endorses General Buhari and recommends him to all Nigerians.”

He said, “It is imaginable, given the annulment of June 12 under unclear circumstances, that this six weeks delay can have more supporters than are known. President Jonathan himself can lose control as during the trying time of the 1993 election crisis. It is imaginable that some vested interests may not want both President Jonathan and General Buhari and may work alone or in cooperation with others to impose a contrived and orchestrated interim government that is now gaining traction.

“On coups or coup baits that are being mentioned, worsened also by giving security agencies more roles over election matters than necessary. The forces that aborted June 12 could still be alive. General Buhari in many ways reminds one of MKO. Nigerians must shine their eyes beyond the ordinary and the conventional. Things seem to me now like the more one looks, the less one sees.”

He also warned that the Federal Government, as distinct from the ruling party, must take steps to secure the life of General Buhari “as these intrigues thicken.

“Nothing should happen to him. He may not be a saint. Even Mandela rightly said he was not. No one is. But he now personifies the new hope for Nigeria. Nigerians need him. Nigerians need change. What happened to Yar’Adua Senior, MKO and even Abacha must not happen to him.”

Source: http://www.punchng.com/news/jonathan-afraid-buhari-will-jail-him-obasanjo/

^^^^
Not surprising that Obasanjo's comments (in bold type above) attracted very little attention in the press - most Nigerians were focused on GEJ and election drama instead. OBJ's hack writers in the media must have been very relieved that the abomination he uttered did not attract the scrutiny and contempt it deserved.

It is only an OBJ that could claim "you do not fight corruption by putting people in jail". And yet under this same OBJ, petty thieves were jailed for petty theft - ordinary Nigerians who have been pushed to the wall by hunger and want. These are the people whom OBJ would rather have thrown in jail but definitely not former ministers, governors and of course, presidents.

A country gets the kind of leaders it deserves. For OBJ to utter this nonsense and no one called him out on it - that speaks volumes about who and what we are as a people.

OgagaMic:
D only solution is Resource control which ur People (SW) denied us during d national Confab.. Resource control or Each region Should form his own country

lolz. can't some1 tell GMB tat he won't rule Nigeria more than 3 months b4 we sperate.... gladly Vote GEJ as SS president

#Myopinion every man is. entitled to his

^^^^
What do you mean by "your people SW"? You have no idea where I am from - or my ethnicity.

stevecantrell:
Sometimes these public figures and their kids forget its better to keep quiet, than expose yourself.

^^^^
Food for thought.

49cents:
No we the bachelors will not

This lady was suppoSsed to be married to one of us!!!!!

If he married the "go and die" widow we won't be bothered abi

^^^

This redefinition of 'host communities' has more or less rendered the term meaningless.

Nigeria is a deeply unjust country on so many levels. Some people make the argument that the leaders in oil producing communities, states and governments will simply waste and steal any increased funding made to such areas - and as such there should be an embargo on such funding. But that is no solution and it simply ignores the question raised. The argument that oil producing LGs and states should receive more from the federal purse is an argument that stands on its own merit anyday, anytime. The proper solution to the fear of corruption and illegal diversion of any increased funding (made to oil producing areas) is to make it very hard for this corruption and diversion to happen - and you do this by fixing the police, the EFCC, the judiciary and other agents of government. In other words, you strengthen your institutions.

Unfortunately, the outgoing administration (both the executive and the legislature but largely the executive) failed to punish offenders or strengthen institutions. The redefinition of the PIB by the lawmakers is the outcome of that failure.

NobleG1:
Nigerians are always quick in killing wild animals. This a harmless juvenile African house snake. They normally live close to human dwellings, where they get easy food like, rodents, small lizards, and sometimes birds.

[size=13pt]How To Scare Snakes Away?[/size]

Movements and Vibrations

Snakes are very fearful creatures so it doesn't take a lot to scare them away. The best method to scare them is to make fast movements. A lot of times, just chasing the snake away works very well. Another thing to try is to stomp hard on the ground. The snake will not hear the noise, but it will get scared off by the vibrations the stomping makes.

Eliminate Hiding Areas

If you don't want snakes around, you need to reduce hiding areas for snakes. Common places that snakes like to hide are in piles of wood and rocks, tall grass, under boards and sheets of metal, and in brush or shrubs.

Eliminate Sources of Food

Snakes feed on rats, mice, lizards, frogs and other small animals. Eliminating the population of these animals around your home greatly reduces the number of snakes. Snakes are attracted to places where they can easily find food. If they have a hard time finding food in a certain area, they will not stay around for very long.

How to Avoid Getting Bit

To avoid getting bit by a snake, you need to always wear shoes while you are outside. Even if you are not positive there are snakes around, it is better to be safe than risk getting bit. Never get too close to a snake or try to touch it. A snake will only attack if it feels threatened. Give the snake plenty of time and space to escape instead of trying to attack it.

^^^^

It seems you know a bit about snakes but are you sure it is a harmless house snake? Some cobras have the same black colour and they are definitely not harmless. A juvenile cobra as small as the snake killed by the OP is perfectly capable of delivering enough venom to kill a fully grown man.

Snakes are a vital part of the ecosystem but you can't compete with fear - the deep rooted fear of snakes - a fear that most Nigerians have and which wins out every time.

OLAMIMO12:
From start to finish? good job. so, what next? starting your cucumber farm? am i correct?. pls answer

^^^^
Not yet. Soon enough but not cucumber. I would like to try something else.

Fantastic thread. Read from start to finish.

OP and other contributors - keep it up. Its been an education.

babate3e:
I get your points, but i beg to disagree, you quoted that nearly 100% of Ibadan people rely on pit latrine, and don't have access to pipe borne water. If going by what you said that means, most of us on from ibadan on this thread don't use toilets and we don't have access to healthy drinking water. Like i said before, your research was not a random sampling, rather a purposive one targeted at areas that are not developed. It's a big city, so your research sample was carried out on areas with high incidence, i won't be surprised hearing places like oja-oba, beere, kudeti et al. If you carry out similar studies in ebute metta, epe, and the interior parts of Lagos you get similar results, and please stop making it seem like ibadan has the highest rate of typhoid fever occurrence in naija. Though, all well and good, your research is very valid, but it doesn't depict close to 30% of all ibadan indigenes, and i as a person won't celebrate mediocrity, i think the state government can do more to help these people as they are citizens as well, no one deserves a low standard of living. One love bro.
God bless you.

^^^^
I didn't want to comment further on this thread but I need to correct some errors in your post.

I did not say that nearly 100% of Ibadan people rely on pit latrines and do not have access to pipe borne water. Go through my posts again. My stats dealt with a sample drawn from LCDAs in Ibadan, albeit densely populated ones.

I wonder how you can claim my posts infer that most Ibadan people on this thread don't use toilets and do not have access to drinking water. Go through my posts again. That inference must have come from someone else. Not me.

You are right about the research sample being a purposive one - but contrary to your assumptions, the key criterion in sampling method choice was population density - for obvious reasons.

You claim that if projects similar to my assignment were to be carried out in Ebutte-Meta, Epe and the interior of Lagos, similar results would be obtained. That may well be true. But is that comforting to you? Does that solve the problems identified?

I didn't say Ibadan has the highest incidence of typhoid fever in Nigeria. I am very surprised at how defensive a lot of posters on this thread are. As far as I am aware I have not made any exaggerated claims. The households in communities we sampled - nearly 100% - did not have access to pipe borne water or modern toilet facilities. Anyone who has the time or the inclination can carry out a little survey of his/her own among Ibadan households (in the densely populated communities) to determine if I am peddling outright falsehood.

You confidently claim that my assignment does not depict up to 30% of Ibadan indigenes. How do you know that? Do you know the number of respondents and households sampled?

In conclusion: I posted on this thread because I felt there was a misplaced focus on intangibles and the more important issues affecting Ibadan were being sidelined. Obviously not everyone agrees with me - and that's fine. We can agree to disagree.

As you say: One love. And thanks for keeping it civil.

babate3e:
Bro, i get your facts and i am not in anyway denying what you just said is false, true but this issue you raised is more or less a Nigerian problem and not just limited to ibadan, i have lived in ilorin, stayed in kano, visited ph, this problems are all there. I am as well a researcher, and the mere fact that you carried out your research in ibadan's slum, doesn't mean you can conclude that the city is that bad. I was born and bred in ib, yes we have ghettos more than most cities in naija and this places are ancestral homes of different people, buildings as old as Nigeria's history, so i would understand if as an outsider you see it as dirt and poverty, but we see it as our history and where we come from, so we are so proud of those brown roofs. The city is so big, and those slums are just where early civilization started from, that's the beauty of ibadan blending the old and new. This is such a wonderful thread, i believe op created it to show the beauty of ibadan, issues of poverty is a Nigerian thing. God bless ib, and Nigeria at large.

^^^^
I agree with you on one thing: these problems cut across all Nigerian cities.

The project wasn't concentrated on Ibadan's 'slums' as you assume. It was carried out on an LCDA to LCDA basis with the most densely populated areas as the target samples - and for good reason too.

It is incorrect to assume that I saw Ibadan's social environment as dirty and poverty-ridden 'because I am an outsider'. No. Where I am from doesn't matter. For all you know, I could be an indigene of Ibadan. The important point here is that there were very severe health and environmental challenges in the project samples surveyed. I am simply telling it like it is. Those health and environmental problems I saw on the assignment have nothing to do with so called "brown roofs" or Ibadan's ancient history. There is nothing romantic or quaint about typhoid fever, gastro-enteritis, dysentery, diarrhea or malaria. There is no beauty in fecal contamination of drinking water - and these and other problems are the issues that the city and its people have to deal with today.

Yes - poverty is a pan-Nigerian problem but that shouldn't be a ready excuse to avoid local action. Unfortunately, some of those I have interacted with on this thread tend to think otherwise.

Anyway, as I said earlier - to each his own.

zimoni:
You don't get it Sir, they've been bashing Ibadam Ibadan on a daily basis until a thread was created highlighting the good and ugly sides of Ibadan like Wesley did for Enugu thread. The thread silenced them until we lost it to server crash. I think Vanguard was angry because they've always been bashing the city and when someone opened a thread and people posted various pictures, someone like you came to post HDI wanene wanene again.

I got your point sha, we shall get there.

It is well.

God bless us all.

^^^^
This is not about 'bashing' any city.

It may not be palatable to hear but what I have said about Ibadan is the truth. It is also true for several other cities in Nigeria.

You claim the poster I quoted was angry because someone like me posted "HDI wanene wanene"? With this comment it is clear you do not mean well for this city you claim to love. The health and infrastructure challenges that Ibadan faces must be addressed for the quality of life of her people to improve. It is that simple - you can face this truth (the first step to solving the problem) or pretend it doesn't exist. The choice is yours.

I don't understand how KFC and other beacons of elite consumption (with zero ties to the local economy) have become synonyms for development.

Anyway - to each his own.

OoduaVanguard:
I'm done exchanging words with you. Tomorrow is a few hours away, when you get to Church, preach it!

^^^^
Its rather unfortunate you have taken this path. I am not exchanging words with you. I am making a point I think is valid - and I understand that not everyone will agree with me.

We can agree to disagree.

OoduaVanguard:
Save your sermonette for Church service Tomorrow (Sunday), abeg. Me I'm here to celebrate the POSITIVES, yes, the aethetically beautiful side of Ibadan. You may live in a bubble where the ideal is all that matters to you, but Ibadan will never be an 'ideal city' coz none of such exists on earth -- Lagos isn't, New York isn't, London isn't, Tokyo isn't, Paris isn't, Toronto isn't, Berlin isn't, Milan isn't -- all these cities have their slums/ghettos/poverty e.t.c. We don't live in an ideal/perfect world.

Of course you can keep lamenting like Jeremiah, na your wahala be dat.

^^^^


Now I have called you out on your BS, you accuse me of sermonizing.

The facts are there. Take them or leave them. I gave you facts on key Human Development Index stats in Ibadan - you may choose to ignore them but they will not go away.

I am definitely not living in a bubble and I do not expect perfection. I gave you stats in which nearly 100% of a sample of households in your beloved Ibadan depend on well water for basic needs - well water that is at high risk of contamination from septic tanks. Do you know the health costs (to these households and communities) of typhoid fever and other water borne diseases? Do you even have an idea? I challenge you to look for the results of published studies that are far more rigorous and comprehensive than mine - are the results similar or not?

I gave you stats on how nearly 100% of a sample of Ibadan households rely exclusively on pit latrines for their toilet needs. Those pit latrines were in very poor - I repeat - very poor shape, exposing users to deadly communicable diseases. Am i being idealistic for highlighting these truths? Or you are angry simply because these truths are inconvenient?

You would rather highlight the presence of KFC and shoprite as indicators of development, while the owners of these businesses repatriate their capital and profits at will. (By the way - let it be clear I bear no ill will towards these entrepreneurs.)

Focus on substance and not spin. Ibadan needs a lot of work. To deny this and focus on 'aesthetics' or 'celebrating the positives' is to do her people a disservice.

anonimi:
How much of the food and other items produced by Nigerians in Nigeria and properly packaged are sold in those shops/ eateries to ensure there is EMPLOYMENT for our farmers, agribusiness investors and factory owners

Don't you agree with me that an INTELLIGENT person should be more concerned with these issues

That is instead of embarking on a useless my-region-better-pass-your-own based on the presence of South African businesses - a country that has NO regard for Nigerian lives going by their recent XENOPHOBIA attacks on foreigners!

^^^^
My old foe/friend anonimi. You remind me of Brazil/Real Betis' striker Denilson (now retired) - capable of pure magic some of the time but maddeningly, frustratingly inconsistent most of the time.

There isn't much to add to your points up there. Not much to add at all.

I hope your post triggers some much needed thought among us.

OoduaVanguard:
Bull crap. First time I arrived in New York city -- Harlem to be precise -- in the year of our Lord 1992, I saw big-a$$ RATS roaming all over the streams in Harlem. I couldn't believe how ghetto the whole area was. You hardly see such on T.V, not coz it doesn't exist but rather coz they don't highlight it -- the drug-ravaged and extreme poverty of the inner-city America is often hidden from general view.

We've always been hearing about the NEGATIVE sides of Ibadan for donkey years, let's see some aesthetically packaged perspective for A CHANGE! Damn!

^^^^
Whether or not you are defensive about it - reality simply does not care. When it bites - it bites hard.

What do US inner city ghettoes have to with this matter? Focus on your problems and their solutions. If the Americans choose to ignore their social problems, does that make them go away? Can you see the connection between the current problems in places like Baltimore, Ferguson etc. and the refusal of Americans to confront the seeds of those problems when those seeds were sown long ago?

You remind me of Nigerians (far too many of them) who are fixated on image laundering rather than problem solving. "Aesthetic packaging" will not solve Ibadan's problems. Targeted, focused action is what will do the job - not PR jobs executed in the form of glossy pictures - in print form or online.

If you have been hearing about the negative side of Ibadan for years and change has been marginal or non-existent, is it not time to ask some hard questions?

Redman44:
Nice Pictures . However, what we should be talking about is the state of the common man in Oyo State. It is nice to post pictures that will make people assume Ibadan is a Mini-Paradise, but what is the living standard of the average Ibadan resident? Are the homes in Ibadan receiving potable water supply from the Oyo State Water Corporation? Are there good public libraries in the State? Can 85% of Ibadan Residents afford 3 Rich Square meals a day? Are people knowledgeable enough to know how to eat balanced diets on a daily basis? In Europe, even the worst looking houses have access to potable water, electricity and rubbish removal by the local councils. Can we say the same about Ibadan and Oyo State?

How many Ibadan Residents can afford the goods and products being sold in all these malls springing up there? How many Ibadan Residents are earning at least 30,000 Naira per month? What are the statistics of good living in Ibadan? On Healthcare, apart from UCH, how many Ibadan Residents can afford the bills at Hospitals and Clinics in the City?

I believe we need to dwell more on these issues I have mentioned than posting pictures alone. Cheers.

^^^^
Well said.

I was part of a team on a social project in Ibadan recently. For the sample size, over 95% did not have access to pipe borne water. Wells were the sole water source for these families and contamination from septic tanks was a real and present danger. After going through the expense of building wells at a considerable cost, these families have to abandon these wells once contamination from seepage is suspected or discovered. No doubt, some families who discover or suspect contamination will simply try to tough it out because they don't have the resources to sink new wells. You can guess the outcome.

On the same project, over 90% of the households sampled did not have access to modern sanitary toilet facilities. The facilities used by these households are pit latrines and they were in very poor condition. These were things I saw with my own two eyes. One of the team members had trouble with taking meals both during and after the project - he simply wasn't prepared for the things he saw on the assignment.

These pictures of KFC et al just made me smile. The real Ibadan is in places like Kudeti. Mapo. Olopomewa. I can still remember the giant, mutant rats I saw fighting in the open sewers at Kudeti at 10am in the morning . In the same Kudeti, human waste and raw sewage was being emptied into the river/stream (I forget the name) coursing behind the households in the area - the same water being used for washing, cooking, etc. downstream.

Those behind this thread know how far down on the HDI scale Ibadan is - unless they choose to deceive themselves with these glossy pictures.

Rest in Peace, Sly.

kaboninc:
Hahahaha...

My colleagues are asking why I am laughing....

Well, I've always supported GEJ and his government. My support doesn't mean I take everything hook, line and sinker. I criticize when needed. But my problem with most people (including you ) is when we do not look at the issues PROPERLY and CONSTRUCTIVELY!

If you check my stand here, I've always advocated a complete removal of fuel subsidy. I've never liked it but some of us have unfortunately misunderstood the entire concept of subsidy. My siggy has always been: it is not sustainable to subsidize what we consume but rather what we produce. Expenses are like the gas. You just do not see it and when it escapes, it never returns.

That has been my take.

Personally, with the available information I'm disposed to, and putting one and one together, I think GEJ's government happens to be the best administration in the past 16 years. Please, lets talk about this some other time.... Thanks!

I read some arguments (especially from you) on government building refineries. I strongly disagree with that idea because past experiences have show us that it has never worked. I think Government should provide an enabling environment for companies to flourish. Take a look at major State Oil Corporations - Petrobas, Gazprom, these companies are known to be really corrupt and honestly, we do not need that in Nigeria at the moment. Even with the power plants, government had to source for funds to speed up the construction of these plants up to a level that can attract buyers. Now look at the mess we've got ourselves into by allowing a small group of persons (The Cartel) import a commodity that we can EASILY produce? Or do you think that government has not tried to convince these marketers to consider investing (especially building refineries) here in Nigeria? You may say the government shot itself in the leg but going tough on The Cartel would result in a ripple effect on the economy as tampering with the dynamics of fuel (especially PMS and Kerosene) can cost a government so much.

Take a look at the Telecommunication sector - The Government has tried competing in the industry (NITEL) and also act as regulator (NCC). Now compare that to the oil industry where in most cases, NNPC is a self-regulating entity. Imagine that had been the case for NITEL, do you thing we would have witnessed this growth in the Telecom industry?

Same with the Finance Industry....and Power too.

I saw your comment on the PwC report but like I said, we just do not look at the issues with our eyes open but with our emotions guiding us. So, I've refrained from commenting on the PwC report for now pending when I come across an unbiased mind.

****
Modified

Why also do you think the first independent publicly owned refinery to be constructed was a diesel refinery?

^^^^


I notice the introduction of qualifiers in your support for GEJ. It was unconditional then but it is conditional now...

I will accept your request that the battle for the verdict on GEJ's administration should be postponed till some other time.

It is interesting that you advocate subsidies for production and not consumption. I can imagine most governments would agree with you - subsidizing production alone would mean less strain on public finances. What I find intriguing is that these same governments have no problem with taxing both consumption AND production - they would gladly impose taxes on anything and everything - as long as it raises government revenue.

To an extent I agree with you that subsidies targeted towards production are better than subsidies on consumption. After all, the aim is to produce to compete, not to consume. But I disagree with your broad claim that consumption subsidies are unsustainable. It is very possible to subsidize consumption on a sustainable basis - it simply depends on the state's resource capacity, what product is being subsidized and which social group is being subsidized. Food stamps for the poor would fall into the category of a consumption subsidy wouldn't they? Scholarships for indigent students would fall into the class of consumption subsidies, wouldn't they? They have been successfully run in several countries for years.

You disagree with my views that the government should build refineries, and you support your stand with the cliche about government "providing an enabling environment for companies to flourish". I guess you and I disagree fundamentally on public goods and market failure. Whenever people cite failed state owned enterprises as a reason for governments to forego participation in any economic sector, I ask them if they support privatization and deregulation of the armed forces and the police. They usually have no answer.

I ask you: if you consider your government incapable of running any kind of enterprise (be it in the oil sector or whatever) then why would you consider it competent enough to administer the civil service, ministries, departments, agencies, universities, the armed forces and the various regulatory agencies? Is it not the same high level administrative and management capabilities required? Nigerian governments cannot stamp out corruption in the NNPC and you think they will be able to stamp out corruption in the CBN, army and the police? Or PENCOM, SEC and NAICOM?

We have to make up their minds on the kind of society we want. You mention Petrobras and Gazprom. I mention Statoil. How was Norway able to turn its state owned oil company into a giant with a billion dollar balance sheet guaranteeing the future prospects of Norway's unborn children? Do the Norwegians each have 2 heads and hearts with 10 chambers?

You talk about the power plants - I ask you - what is the current situation? Despite the so-called privatization and sale of the Gencos and Discos the state had to intervene with a new multibillion Naira bailout package - for firms that had supposedly been privatized and sold in a deregulated market. Is this not a subsidy of sorts? (and a moral hazard too!) So what are we talking about here?

If there is one thing I agree with, it is that we are in a huge mess. The so-called cartel has us all by the short hairs - we have spineless governments that won't build refineries (to drill and sell fuel locally) and at the same time won't go after marketers who swindled Nigerians of trillions. The whole thing is incredible - the money spent on this phantom subsidy would have built several refineries several times over but our governments refused to build refineries AND yet at the same time refused to hold fuel importers accountable in any way. What kind of hell is this?

You mention our telecommunications sector experience versus our petroleum sector. While I am not necessarily advocating that NITEL should have been both a regulator and player - I want to ask you: is there no country in the world where the Norwegian oil sector model has been replicated in the telecomms sector?

On a parting note: before you call me an armchair theorist, let me tell you how your so-called subsidy removal is likely to play out:


Government removes 'subsidy' on fuel

PMS prices immediately rise to anything between 130 Naira to 170 Naira. Cost price inflation puts severe pressure on the economy, particularly low income earners. Prices rise. Nigerians groan.

Two months after subsidy removal, importers continue to import PMS cargo from foreign refineries for sale in Nigeria. Government assures Nigerians that investors are finally going to build new refineries in Nigeria since they are assured of profitable investments in a fully deregulated market.

Six months after subsidy removal, not one refinery has progressed beyond blueprint and technical drawing stage. Nigerians complain bitterly but government assures them that the investors are fine-tuning their plants, ready to launch "in the nearest future". Meanwhile, importers continue to import PMS cargo for sale in Nigeria at healthy margins. Privately, importers confide that they are not prepared to forgo the highly profitable, relatively smooth business of importing PMS for the high risk business of setting up refineries in Nigeria.

12 months after subsidy removal, not one refinery has been built - importation of refined petroleum products is still in force. Exchange rate pressures force another devaluation of the Naira. Pumphead prices shoot through the roof to 300 Naira per litre. Nigerians groan and tension rises in the streets.

16 months after subsidy removal, still not one refinery has been built. The delay is blamed on 'technical problems'. The subsidy removal advocates suddenly are nowhere to be found.

Fade to black...


^^^
I hope for all our sakes that I'm wrong.

Interesting thread.

Even though I'm not backing any of the 'horses' in this race I can't help but notice how the 'usual suspects' have avoided this thread like the plague. But why won't they? They are all on the "Wole Soyinka said ABCD" thread which is based on innuendo, speculation and juvenile name calling...Unlike this one which is evidence-based and deals with uncomfortable statistics and inconvenient truths...

Funny people, all of you...on both sides...

kaboninc:
Lool.

Yeah. Same kaboninc...

^^^^
When did your conversion on the road to Damascus take place?

On those threads, you defended to the very end the awful things being done in high places - what finally made you change your mind?

For some reason I'm going to go easy on you - my first instinct was to dredge up those threads and force you to recant. I actually did post on those old threads after the PwC report was released but for some reason you and your 'friends' refused to say a word.

What made you change your mind about how GEJ and previous PDP governments have thoroughly mismanaged things? You were ready to die for GEJ back then...

kaboninc:
That is exactly what it is. The government foots the fill on subsidy on imported fuel ONLY! Public records have shown that. MOMAN, NNPC and some Independent Oil Marketing companies all Import fuel.



There is no subsidy on locally refined fuel. The local refineries refine their fuel and sell at the market price (I think same as the aggregate price) NNPC claims that they buy crude at international market price and hence must sell at same price. Why has successive government failed to re-position the local refineries? It is because as it stands, importing petroleum products is more profitable to these businessmen and hence will do everything possible to frustrate government's effort at re positioning the refineries - including the labour. Why would people enjoy sabotaging crude oil pipelines? They just don't do it because selling stolen crude oil is lucrative but also destroying the plants that refine the crude oil. A contract will be given to repair the pipelines and money gets wings. I strongly believe all these criminal activities are linked in one way or the other. Focus has always been on the imports segment because the state of the local refineries cannot meet the local demand of PMS. It is believed that kerosene (a commodity that must be seriously looked into) and PMS are products that the Nigerian people can say, yes we are getting a share of the National Cake. Look at kerosene, how can you buy it at 40.90k and sell at over 130 per liter? The excuse is that the aviation companies use this fuel and hence the 'scarcity'. Mind you, these aviation companies were supposed to buy at the current market price. You see, all these contribute to the rot in that industry.

Also, there is the local refinery like the Niger Delta Petroleum Resources (target commodity is diesel) and hopefully, Orient Petroleum which I believe should be working towards establishing one. Then the Dangote Refinery which hopefully, will be coming on stream in 2017. Then Forte Oil, Oando I hope will continue pushing their interest in establishing a refinery in Nigeria.



The current capacity of all refineries is 445,000 barrels per day. NNPC gets this crude at the current international price, and because the refineries are in a comatose state, a fragment is sent to some of these local refineries while the remaining is swapped for other petroleum derivatives from refineries outside the country.

The previous government did try by selling the refineries (at the last minute but was revoked by the incoming government) and this government wanted to curb the rot by removing subsidy. What attracts the continued rot is the subsidy - you can claim to import but never did and get paid for product never purchased in the first place. Have you also observed that the AGO market has not attracted the scandal as with the PMS and Kerosene?


Another issue is the Labour unions.


My advice for the incoming government is to SELL all public refineries, restructure the NNPC and completely remove subsidy as with the recommendations of the Senate Committee and PwC reports. We have the raw products, we have the capability to refine the raw products. We must develop the will to do the job!

^^^^
Before I comment on your posts I would like to confirm if you are the kaboninc I was sparring with before the elections?

This is very sad.

I noticed he hadn't been around for a while and it was Bukky, Jimi and another new guy that were handling the early morning paper run.

I thought he was on leave or he was out of town or something. I had no idea he was terminally ill.

This is very depressing.