₦airaland Forum

dabossman:
You really can't blame most people for ending up in this situation. If people at fault accept that they are wrong then we can move on; but when you are wrong and you are claiming to be right, there will be trouble o.

There was this one guy who was trying to overtake me from the right on a major two-lane expressway where we were all going at reasonable speed, only for him to notice a danfo parked at the bus-stop ahead. What should any sane driver do? Slow down, check your mirror, trafficate (indicate) and then switch lanes once the coast is clear. But no, this guy swerves towards me trying to squeeze through, I try to swing to my left to avoid us making contact but the concrete road divider (kerb) is right beside me. The guy ends up hitting my front fender. Next thing he stops right in the middle of the road before me and begins to alight. I decide not to cause a traffic gridlock, so I try to park to the side off the road. The guy hurriedly jumps into his vehicle and blocks me again saying I must not run away. I'm like dude what the hell. His friends also alight and surround me saying I ran into them from behind. Of course they are all smelling of alcohol. They begin to form good cop, bad cop, with one trying to play the mediator while still pinning the blame on me; asking me to apologize to his friend so peace could reign! Say what?!

Now tell me how that won't result into a long argument?

^^^


Your story is eerily similar to mine. From the accident arising from the other driver's recklessness to the alcohol to the good cop, bad cop routine.

I ended up brawling with the other driver when things spiraled out of control. Before this incident the last time I had brawled in the streets was over 15 years ago when I was young, hotheaded, single and not yet a father.

I left the scene because it was dark, late at night and I didn't want any opportunists who had gathered round to take advantage and harm or rob my family (who were sitting in my car).

Those young guns got away with it. Or so they think...

If indeed that policeman did this to these people without justification, he should be severely punished.

Nigeria.

mikeansy:
APC members need to face the subject if they have nothing to hide and leave the messenger alone.

If chukwuma lives in Lagos and pays all his taxes in Lagos and votes in Lagos is he any less a lagosian cos of his name?

^^^^
Your partisan support for an underperforming, incompetent federal government is well known on this forum. But what you have stated up here is the truth. The LASG and the party that produced it is in the same league as the federal government in so many respects.

Mr. Fashola began to speak from both sides of his mouth when the FOI issue came up. What is he hiding? Taxpayers and voters of Lagos deserve nothing but a transparent audit of the affairs of the LASG during the tenure of BRF and his predecessor. Nothing less will be acceptable.

A good example of the murky picture surrounding the LASG is the Lekki - Epe expressway. The LASG (and the party behind it) is just waiting for the election before it will (no doubt) begin collecting tolls at the second toll point on this expressway. The Fashola/Tinubu/Ambode 'hagiographers' who live on that axis would be stupid not to ask themselves hard questions NOW. Do the alternative routes on the Lekki - Epe expressway meet 'fit for purpose' standards? Was the concessioning process transparent and conducted in the public interest? I leave those who ply that route to be the judge.

Demdem:
[b]
This has always been my argument against proponents of deregulation of the sector. We have tried it for diesel and it's not working, why on earth can someone convince me that it will work for petrol.

These lot will like to hinge their hopes on the telecommunication sector where healthy competition brought prices down. This work for them then because most of the investors were foreign.
It will be foolhardy to compare them with our local oil merchants that are high profile politicians who will just form a cartel and determine price they deem fit.
Importing is a big disservice to this nation and we Av a useless govt that doesn't care about our local refining capability.
The same thing is currently happening in the cement sector where big players in the industry jointly sat together and agree on price of cement and some folks will call that competition. Bullshit, that's a cartel.

On a small scale, we have tried deregulation of diesel and instead of marketers competing between themselves, they are forming cartels amongst themselves further improvising Nigerians and the govt is looking aloof. If the benefits are not gotten from diesel under this govt, we can never get the same for petrol. This isn't rocket science but common sense.[/b]

^^^
Clearly stated.

BlackTechnology:



You guys supported the cartel when GEJ wanted to deal with the subsidy thieves.

^^^
Stick to the topic. I have no idea what you mean by the above statement.

noblezone:
Not exactly.

My position is not general in aspects of life.

My position is particular to government and government institutions.

Corruption (with respect to government) refers to rot in the system.
And the statement "stealing is not corruption" is referring to that particular reference to government:
That an individual working for government stole, does not mean that the government is rot (or corrupt).
At this juncture, I can only conclude that you are innocently misunderstanding me and I am not blaming you for that.

Cheers

^^^^

No problem sir. Time will tell...

BlackTechnology:
GEJ is wrong not fighting this diesel cartel but deregulation stands


GEJ must fight cartels the way Roosevelt fought cartels.

We Nigerians must side the president against cartels

^^^^
I see.

The GEJ administration didn't need my help to 'deregulate' or 'remove subsidy'. The GEJ administration didn't need my help in deciding who to issue fuel import licences to. But it now needs my help to 'fight the cartel'.

You clearly think we are children.

We are watching.

noblezone:
CONTEXT is force to be reckoned with whenever we talk about communication. You cannot communicate effective without context.
I once saw a headline, "Buhari bombs Jonathan"
If you don't consider context, you will surely have a problem with that statement.

This thread is not about the consequences of stealing or corruption.
The thread has a context: What do you understand by Stealing is not Corruption.

If you start talking about the consequences of stealing or corruption, you will simply be out of point.

I understand your sentiment though but please let me assure you that I am neither justifying nor defending stealing and/or corruption.

Even Mr. President in that sentence was not defending stealing neither was he supporting corruption.

Let me make it clearer:
If an individual working for government steals, it can easily be detected an that individual can easily be punished.
But for corruption? It will be so hard to trace who stole what because all the people are working together to perpetuate evil.

In a case of stealing, you can easily identify the thief, arrest him and charge him to court.
At the court, you provide evidence, you call your witnesses who will support your arguemens.

In the case of corruption, you cant hold any particular individuals.
All the records would be "correct". Those who could serve as your witnesses are all involved.
That is why corruption fight is not abut hounding people, it is about being smart.

There is corruption in the oil sector! It is not a case of one individual stealing, it is a case of rot in the whole system.
That was why the best approach was to remove subsidy and that will pull off the platform!

Nigerians were deceived by those benefiting from that rot.

^^^^
I strongly disagree, sir.

I understand perfectly well what context means. Please note that it has absolutely no relevance to the topic being discussed. I am not even going to go into the linguistic gymnastics being performed by those of you trying to explain or rationalize GEJ's statement. There is nothing to explain there.

You have persisted with your thesis that while stealing is a crime committed by individuals, corruption is a 'majority offence' and as such those guilty of it cannot be held accountable. This assertion by you sir, is patently false.

GEJ knew what he was saying and why he said it. I urge you to get the transcripts of the interview.

We are not children.

Collynzo9:
You are just complicating matters for yourself unnecessarily, the issue is a very simple one. What is the cost of a barrel of crude oil in the market? At $65 per barrel, it means that you are paying about 50 cents for one litre of unrefined crude oil.
That is almost N100 even without the cost of refining and transporting it considered, you can do the rest of the math yourself.
Yes Venezuel and Quata subsidizes the petrol the sell to their citizens even though they refine it themselves. The wouldn't get it cheap if the allow market forces and cost of refining come into play.

^^^
Of course I'm going to complicate matters for myself, necessarily or unnecessarily. After all, I'm Nigerian. Its our way. Even you too.

You obviously haven't read my previous posts on this thread. The simplicity you seek is in those posts and is there for you and all to see. But I'll repeat my key points just this once.

Nigeria has no business importing refined fuel. No business at all.

Nigerians want to know how much it costs to drill and refine a litre of PMS/DPK/AGO locally here in Nigeria. This price should then be compared to the (all-in) cost of importing a litre of refined PMS/DPK or AGO. Provide this information and we will kickoff the debate.

Your essay on Venezuela and Qatar omitted one crucial bit of information: Are the Venezuelans and the Qataris subsidizing imported fuel or they are subsidizing fuel drilled and refined locally in their own countries? This sir, is the crux of the matter.

P.S. Only hard facts and numbers will settle this matter. Not conjecture or wishful thinking.

Collynzo9:
Without subsidy you will be buying petrol at N300 per litre minimum.
Refining here in Nigeria wouldn't even change much unless the crude oil is subsidized before selling to the refineries.
The likes of Quatar, Venezuela etc subsidize even the crude oil they refine in their countries, that is why their citizens get them cheap.

^^^^
I challenge you to substantiate your claims above. Anyone can make the claims you have made.

More to the point, are you telling us with a straight face that it does not matter if Nigeria refines petroleum products locally or imports them? Your second sentence says this. Do you really mean what you are saying?

As I have said in so many posts on this matter, what is the cost of drilling and refining a litre of PMS, DPK or AGO here in Nigeria? And how does that cost compare with the cost of a litre of imported PMS, DPK or AGO?

Surely you can provide answers to my questions, can't you?

BlackTechnology:
156Litres per barrel

^^^
156 litres of what, sir?

Abagworo:
There has never been subsidy. It is simply a scam used in stealing. We do not consume as much fuel as claimed by FG. Let a new government enter and all this truth will be revealed.


Why cant the refineries be built in Nigeria and subsidy payed in Naira to indegenous owners?

^^^
You can see none of them will answer your question because they don't know what answer to give.

We fought this whole subsidy/fuel price war on several other threads such as this one:

https://www.nairaland.com/1952575/fg-spend-n1-trillion-petrol

Some of the combatants on that thread are here now. But they won't answer the clear questions such as the ones you have asked. They prefer to dance around the issue.

We will all meet at the polling booth next year.

Bayswater:
I will spare you the long details. Various operator companies are cutting their budgets and the one I work for would be cutting their budget by a whopping 40%!. Iwotago? I hope you understand why they are doing that? They can't make any profit at $65 per barrel. The break-even cost of oil as at today stands at between $70 - $80 per barrel. Oil companies simply can't make new investments. Forget the rubbish oil lifting and finding costs that are being bandied around, the averge break-even cost of the cheaper oil shale production still stands at around $67 per barrel! Though prices vary from region to region.

^^^^
Please don't spare me. I want the details.

I have posted on several threads on this so-called fuel subsidy on petroleum products in Nigeria. Nigerians are not being told the truth by the government. We want the truth!!

I want the Nigerian government to provide details of exactly how much it costs to produce and refine a litre of petrol here in Nigeria. I then want the government to provide details of exactly how much it costs to import a litre of refined petrol into Nigeria. The whole petroleum subsidy argument stands or falls on this information. How hard can it be to provide it?

I do not want production costs on a per barrel basis because you have not at any time told us how many litres of PMS, AGO or DPK can be extracted from a barrel of oil. I want an oranges to oranges comparison or an apples to apples comparison.

For the avoidance of doubt, let me ask again: How much does it cost to produce a litre of petrol (PMS) locally here in Nigeria? Is it 97 Naira? More than 97 Naira? Less than 97 Naira? That is the question Nigerians want an answer to. Surely this information should be in the public domain if there is nothing to hide. And while the government people are at it, Nigerians also want to know how much it costs to import a litre of refined PMS or DPK or AGO. We want to compare these import prices with the local equivalents.

We are waiting.

Bayswater:
Even if we refine the crude oil here, the cost if producing a barrel of oil would still be more than $65 per barrel.

^^^

I challenge you to prove this.

The craziness behind Nigerian government's refusal to fix the refineries or build new ones should now be clear to even its most hardened supporters.

Nigerians: The price of crude oil has gone down, non? And so why hasn't the pump price gone down in Nigeria too?

Government: The pump price has not gone down because the Naira has fallen against the dollar and we are importing the fuel which is sold at Nigerian petrol stations.

Nigerians: Would it not make more sense to fix our refineries and build new ones so that we will not be affected by exchange rate fluctuations? After all, the crude oil is under Nigerian soil and it would be cheaper to drill and refine locally than to import, non?

Government: You are asking too many questions. What do you know about economics, geology or petroleum engineering? Go back to your rabbit hole and wait for further instructions. You are asking questions when you should be preparing for the next fuel price hike, come 2015.

Nigerians:

noblezone:
You simply do not understand the meaning of a context!

there is no argument about the fact that stealing is an aspect of corruption.

The point is this:

We are seven in my family! We are saddled with the responsibility of keeping money for the community.
One of then took some money on his capacity! He stole and is guilty, but you wont say my family is corrupt because one of us stole.

The family is corrupt when every one of us to collude. It is not just stealing anymore. It is a system and culture of stealing.
Saying a government is corrupt when an individual stole is like calling my a family of thieves because I stole.

There was a context Mr. President spoke on.
He was saying, because an individual in my government stole, does not mean my government is corrupt.

He was neither defending stealing nor defending corruption.

Now, whether he is stealing or his government is corrupt is another ball game altogether.
This thing is very simple to understand but it seems some of you are already blinded with sentiments.

^^^^
It seems this is all a game to you.

The very real consequences of the PDP's failure (of which GEJ's government is the most recent example) to live up to its responsibilities are all around us. And yet you consider it 'noble' to take your countrymen on an uneccessary diversion, splitting hairs on 'contextual meaning' and the like.

The worst part of it all is that your 'thesis' is disingenuous. Corruption is not a game of numbers as your crude theory of 7 family members implies. No. The key issue here is the consequences (or lack thereof) for unlawful activity and this is where the GEJ administration has flat out failed. You know this is true. The most compelling evidence of your hack writing is that in your theory, you did not in any way touch on the CONSEQUENCES of stealing for the one member of the family who unlawfully took the money placed in his care. That is the heart of the matter. There are no consequences for wrongdoing in the GEJ administration and that is why it is corrupt. Period.

Nigerians know what they need to do in February next year to force their leaders to be accountable. Whether they have the guts and single mindedness to do it is another matter altogether.

We shall see.

This thread shows how low we have fallen. Maybe we were always like this but we just didn't want to admit it to ourselves.

A sitting president makes the kind of outrageous comments that in saner climes would have brought down his government in 24 hours. In Nigeria we sit and DO NOTHING.

There is more than enough evidence that the current administration is not accountable to Nigerians and is working against their interests. This thread proves it. The question is whether Nigerians are ready to do the hard work required, come February 14 next year.

We shall see.

Mogidi, where art thou?

I had given up on this thread when that Mogidi fellow and his band of 'patriots' came in and immediately started shooting. The trend (on any thread where anyone so much as questions the military's tactics in this war) is for these 'patriots' to brand any critic of the army's methods as saboteurs. Unfortunately, these 'patriots' have strong support in the large mass of people on these boards - people who have an inexplicable hatred of any kind of critical or analytical reasoning.

I was more than surprised when several stalwarts on this thread handed Mogidi's gluteus maximus back to him, chunk by chunk, sinew by sinew, tendon by tendon. And they did it calmly and without any drama - just a reasoned, methodical point by point rebuttal of his outlandish, illogical claims. All very civilized and unemotional.

There is hope after all...

Alphaoscar:
scenes like this abound in every nooks and crannies of this country and your landlocked state is worse than this.

FYI, government us continuum and no single government can turn the state or a country to a Paris overnight but the truth of the matter is that true lagosian appreciate the current APC administration led by Fashola and their positive impact on the state far outweigh the rubbish you are spewing here .

^^^
You can do better. You can do better!!

Hold your government accountable! How can your response to this thread be: "Your state is just as bad"? Does that help you in any way? Does that clear the garbage off the streets?

The only rubbish here is the rubbish on the streets in the pictures taken and posted here. Demand that your government fix it.

ibedun:
You see ....

This is the result of allowing uncontrolled and unmitigated immigration into your territory. Igbos running away from their father land and congregating into Yoruba land in their millions have resulted in the increasing number of slums in our peaceful, sweet Yoruba land.

Allowing vermins from the east to multiply without checking them.

We yorubas better face this challenge head on otherwise, poverty striken, landless, bitter Igbo people will continue to join the Young shall grow buses heading into our ancestral land.

^^^

The pictures don't lie.

You have gone off on a tangent instead of holding your state and local government accountable.

Not one word in your post about forcing government to do its job. Not one.

Who are you fooling?

You get what you pay for.

bushdoc9919:
Norway's got industries apart from oil, produces far more oil than we do, and just has 11 million people......Nigeria just imports the products of other industries.produces less oil than the UAE....and for a population approaching 160million.

Oil is still a curse.

^^^^
No sir, oil is not a curse. It is a resource like any other. What counts is what you do with it.

The academic literature on the Dutch disease phenomenon has been around for a long time. Did Nigeria's decision makers do everything within their power to avoid repeating the mistakes of other 'resource cursed' countries? No. Did we the people hold them accountable for this? No.

You say the Norwegians diversified their economy, produce more oil and have fewer children. There is nothing preventing Nigeria from doing any of these things (although its too late now for some of them). You have generated an association or correlation in your mind between oil and economic collapse. Where is the causality there?

I love the way we keep pleading diminished responsibility. Our next excuse will be temporary insanity.

bushdoc9919:
Yours is the only post that makes sense on the thread.

In South and North Korea....they both had no domestic weapons programme by 1960....everything was imported.

Now, both of them do.

In an oil rich society like Nigeria....investing in technology is something that is despised.....after all we can use our oyel kudi to import what we need.

So we refuse to invest in local technology, we refuse to invest in technical people, and we refuse to invest in technical education.

Instead we use our oil money to remain dependent on foreign powers through imports (sigh).

Oil is a curse.

^^^^


You keep pushing the notion that oil is a curse. And I'll keep reminding you that for every Nigeria there is a Norway.

Not everyone pissed their opportunity away. Some countries took that oil and did something worthwhile with it.

160 million people pleading diminished responsibility.

Dibiachukwu:
Is it by force? Make your own. I wish everybody would refuse to sell arms to those fatties and big heads.

^^^
I wonder.

We are experiencing the effects of unrestrained consumption. This is what happens when you don't produce.

But we won't learn any lessons from all this. If we never learnt all this while, why will it change now?

GeneralShepherd:
Why can't we make our own?

^^^


As you must have noticed, no one has answered your question. Why? Because its a difficult question we don't have an answer to.

Its far easier to curse and rant. Some other poster drew our attention to how India is a nuclear power today. And India got flag independence from the British at about the same time as Nigeria. What is our excuse?

Our nakkedness is now on full display.

Following the thread's recommended format:

Model (multi-user household): RAV 4, Corolla, Camry
Year: 2008, 2006, 2012
Engine: 2.0?, 1.8?, 2.4
Transmission: automatic

Not much going on in this thread. As someone said - maybe its because Toyota problems are few and far between...

There may be some truth in that. Apart from a failed differential (replaced under warranty), a faulty fuel gauge sensor (left me stranded on the bridge ), worn stabilizer bushings, warped rotors (dealer's fault ) and a clogged fuel pump (my fault for regularly running low on fuel), not much else has gone wrong in 6 years of ownership of the RAV4. Not bad for a car that's been driven hard in Lagos traffic, off road and across country. The Corolla has had no problems apart from a leak in the fuel hose. Zero issues with the Camry.

Toyota works. Damn reliable. No complicated electrics or electronics hell, no mechanical failures. No overheating madness. The cars just wake up in the morning and do what they are asked to do with no fuss.

Japanese quality control is a wonderful thing.

6ft:
ATTN ALL #TOYOTA CAR GURUS
***URGENT HELP NEEDED***

camry 2004 -xle
i4 2.4
big daddy

I got this wonder on wheels some 6mths ago its a beauty to behold and pleasure to drive..however d engine doesn't seem to hold oil for long especially after journeys! I do a 450-500k return trip every other week and after every such trip my engine oil fall short!
Before now I have tried different oil brands (20w50) they all fell short after the trip recently I got the recommended oil (5w30) milemaster from konga and hit the road. Lo and behold a check on the dipstick the next morn was a nightmare. it had fallen short too !

p.s there are no oil leaks beneath the engine and tail pipe doesn't smoke and check engine light is not on.

^^^
Strange. Perhaps your vehicle could be in the early stages of ring and/or piston wear?

OP,

From the snapshot of the owners manual posted earlier by another poster (assuming here that it is the relevant manual for your car), it seems you don't have a problem.

On the other hand for your sake, I hope your transmission is not one of those referred to in this old thread which you may or may not find useful: https://www.nairaland.com/818945/automatic-transmission-benefits-outweigh-issues

atlwireles:
You are a man ko, you are a man ni.

^^^
And who or what are you?

Nothing is sacred or has value to you. You and your 'friends' play your little partisan political games, selling out children yet unborn and its all a game to you. Online gun for hire.

You'll all get what's coming to you. As sure as night follows day.

atlwireles:
You're full of crap, get the hell off my mentions.

^^^
Be a man and stand by your words. I will stand by mine.

You crossed a line and I called you out on it.

You think you're untouchable or what?