₦airaland Forum

Juxtapose this statement against an Old covenant practice called circumcision. Is there ANY more accurate/faith/new way of performing circumcision in the New covenant? Paul thinks not.
Whatever truth is behind circumcision is easily realized WITHOUT performing circumcision.
Whatever truth is behind tithing,burnt offerings,Freewill offerings is realized WITHOUT tithing,burnt offerings,Freewill offerings
Whatever truth is behind dedication is realized without dedication or modified dedication

Bidam:
What i meant was that the truth of the covenant had not changed, but God's approach had.

What's cheaper is promising utopia Divine Health and Instant Healing bliss. God does not pay for what He never ordered. You negro and your fickle brains are all alone and you can't grow a single strand of hair to nobody. I pity your fans, Gombs and other like-minded simpletons. If eternity is all about eating pan-fried Oyaks vomit, trust me you'd be all alone there for you beat everyone hands down

The only prayers God answers are those according to His will. For whatever reasons, He never willed Paul to recover from the thorn-in-the-flesh or Timothy's frequent ailments. And don't you split hairs over ailments and diseases, you can barely construct a sentence in Koine Greek

mbaemeka:
Your talk is cheap because you are merely mouthing off what you 'think' is true. Sovereignty falls flat in any instance where God was asked for the healing (in this case). I told you before that Mercy was God's response to the faith shown by Paul and co in praying for Epaphroditus. But you lot will not understand it with your one-size-fit-all approach to biblical issues that are way above your pay grade. I have asked you a question before and you evaded it. Can a man go to Obama in the name of Obama? So what is all this nonsense and lies about commanding God?

These people had the same teachings of Jesus you had, same Spirit and that God entrusted them with inspiration and you with just bloviating on NL means a lot don't you think?
Do you suppose their sicknesses point to some deficiency in applying Jesus words? You have already said as much, just confirm it for the record

Show me which scriptures record Paul surviving a snake bite.

I perceive you are vengeful and you have been trying to catch me in error so we can be even keep trying kid
vooks is a mere mortal not a godess like you and since I don't owe allegiance to Oyaks, am not obligated to eat his vomit unlike you. Am a free thinker while you are shackled. Your marriage to Christ Embassy blinds you to the Truth. Your little puny brain can barely stretch outside Rhapsodies. That's double tragedy

mbaemeka:
Quickly quoted you so as to archive this massive blunder. Paul wasn't bitten? Pentecostal lengend? Hahahahaha.

As per the early church, if you cannot see how the truths they believed in kept progressing then you have a lot of studying to do. This is an aside from all the senseless questions you asked me[b]. I don't know how my experience should be the yardstick for weighing the verisimilitude of the scriptures.[/b] Just take Jesus words for what they are. God is not a liar.

Where is it written that the snake bit him?
The villagers THOUGHT he had been bitten and he would swell up and drop dead...THEY THOUGHT he had been bitten. Snakes don't bite anything they come into contact with..NatGeo 101

paulGrundy:
ACTS 28:1-6;

Once safely on shore, we found out that the island was called Malta. [2] The islanders showed us unusual kindness. They built a fire and welcomed us all because it was raining and cold. [3] Paul gathered a pile of brushwood and, as he put it on the fire, a viper, driven out by the heat, fastened itself on his hand. [4] When the islanders saw the snake hanging from his hand, they said to each other, "This man must be a murderer; for though he escaped from the sea, Justice has not allowed him to live." [5] But Paul shook the snake off into the fire and suffered no ill effects. [6] The people expected him to swell up or suddenly fall dead, but after waiting a long time and seeing nothing unusual happening to him, they changed their minds and said he was a god.


This goes to prove that you don't study your bible. Smh

He told the man to rise and he raised him by the hand. Very simple.
The rest are Negroid fantasies that least interest me.
How sure are you he couldn't have stood if he was not supported?

If the man refused to rise, he'd still have been healed. Standing never healed him, it is Peter's word. Standing was a mere testimony of wht had been done ALREADY just like Cornelius speaking in tongues was.

If God's character and glory of sovereignty is an escape route, so be it. It is a strange concept to the primitive Christians but Holy Spirit has revealed this to mbaemeka. The same Holy Spirit who preserved records of instant healing preserved records of no healing or prolonged healing. Forget everything else I have said and remember that

mbaemeka:
The same errant nonsense that Pride won't let you accept even in the face of very clear scriptures showing the sequence of events.

1. Peter and John didn't walk up to the man. The man SAT constantly at the beautiful gate begging for alms.

2. On entering the Gate heading for prayers they met him.

3. He as usual asked for money.

4. They asked him to look at them and then they offered him a healing instead of money.

5. They asked him to rise up and walk (compare with Paul's case at Lystra. As soon as he said rise up and walk the man did) but in this case, the man didn't rise up and walk.

6. Peter stretched forth his hands to lift the man.

7. As he did the man's feet and ankle bones RECEIVED STRENGTH.

8. The man 'leaping up', stood.

I asked you a question. When Peter stretched forth his hands to raise the man if the man refused to get up would he have? If you cannot answer the question then the issue in view is beyond you.

All that sovereignty caveat is just an escape route. Peter and John didn't pray to God for the man's healing. They applied their FAITH in the name of Jesus and the man also responded with some faith. He didn't tell them 'sirs, I cannot walk'. He gave them his hand and when they lifted him, he leaped in response. Period.

Paul was NEVER bitten by a snake, that's another Pentecostal urban legend.

If Jesus is your yardstick, are you sinless as He was? Do you walk on water? How many dead have you raised?
Are you implying there are some truths these primitive Christians who gave you NT missed but the Spirit revealed to you?
Their diseases are not telling mbaemeka to be sick or anything, just that their health stands in stark contrast to the truth you purport to have, the folly of Divine Health or INSTANT healing

Nobody is discounting the value of faith, what has been clearly proved beyond doubt is the illogic behind leaping from FAITH to Divine Health or INSTANT healing/miracles. Between a first century apostle Paul or Timothy and a 2014 Negro, I'd rather the apostle ANY time

mbaemeka:
It is equally a waste of time to flash the above names to me seeing that they're not Jesus himself- who ought to be the standard. Besides, I have done justice on the so-called illnesses of the names above and you could refer to the WOF thread to understand a few things.

You will quickly flash me names of Paul and co when you think it suits your view point then quickly reject the same names when I use them to show you mine. For e.g, Paul was bitten by a snake but he felt no harm. If I say it belongs to all Christians, you would ask me if I am Paul and quickly even brush aside the very words of Jesus himself.

As per healings and whether instant or not. The underlying factor is FAITH and the greater it is the better. That's what the bible says ad nauseam. Now that I have reechoed the very words of the bible why won't you just believe it?

If only scriptural examples got through to your spirit and not vook's words
1. Paul
2. Epphroditus
3. Trophimus
4. Timothy

If only these men shared a fraction of your insight, they would never have to battle with sicknesses....IF ONLY.

It is waste of time and space to flash instant healings as if anybody is disputing that. The existence in scriptures of instant healings and delayed or no healings is the entire Wisdom on healing we need. You cling to one and you do injustice to the other.

mbaemeka:
Only if you understood what you posted above. God has already done what he needed to do about healings by sending Jesus to die for the sicknesses and diseases of the world amongst other things. So in the same token God is not going to raise the 'sovereignty-stick' in dishing out the healing. But guess why people have so much faith for their salvation from sins and not for their health? Because we have people like you who tell them that God employs the sovereignty caveat when it comes to healings so such people don't have the required faith to LAMBANO healing as it should be. And they're forcedto concede that if God wills he will heal them and if he doesn't he won't. Meanwhile, God almighty is more willing to heal anyone who is ill than the person is in being healed.

The secret all lies in one's convictions about the truth. A Jewish leader begged Jesus to come to his house to heal his daughter and before Jesus got there the girl had died. Bless Jesus, he raised her back to life after sending all the scoffers out of the place. Later on a Gentile wanted a healing for his servant but he told Jesus that coming to his house was unnecessary. He knew that Jesus word would have sufficed. Jesus praised the Gentile for it by calling his convictions "Great faith" and that very moment the servant was healed compared to the case of the Jewish leader where the girl even died first.

The sequence is VERY clear and none of what you are projecting here
1. Man seated/lying looks up to them in the epic words of Coolio 'with a tin in his hand and gleam in his eye'
2. Peter talks to him and commands him to rise in Jesus name, something he has never done
3. Peter takes him by his right hand and raises him
4. The man leaps up,standing and begins to walk

Your factual errors and additions to Holy Spirit
1. Peter NEVER TRIED to raise him, he raised him.
2. He never stretched his hand like he was offering something because he had already told him he had nothing


You had insinuated that between Peter's word and the mn rising there was some faith in his leaping but that's far from the truth. You were busy constructing a narrative to include the man's faith into the equation because in your world,healing requires minimal faith on the recipient. Repeat. The man was looking for money, he received healing WITHOUT believing nothing.

This is a public place, your words are here, he who has ears, let them wat h you justify yourself shamelessly

mbaemeka:
Sometimes I wish you know who you are talking to because if you did, you'd probably read the stories slowly before replying. Alot of you that say some of the things you do only do so because you think this is some Book club or something and most of you don't believe the words enough to put it to the test.

Now go back and read the story again and quote the verse that says "and the man, LEAPING up stood". Now pause for a moment and visualize what actually transpired there. See Peter and John stretch out their hands as though they were going to offer the man something. The man stretches out his hand expectant but then Peter yells 'in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk'. Now the bible clearly states that after saying that, Peter and John took him by the hand and tried to raise him up. Pause again, why? Because the man did not get up. Now as they pulled him up the bible shows that that was when the man's feet and ankle bones RECEIVED STRENGTH and as a result the man LEAPING UP stood and began to walk.

Now have you ever tried to raise someone up from the ground who didn't want to get up? Pray tell me, how easy will it be except the person in question leaps up?

The man's response to their pulling him up was his LEAPING UP. I tell you without flinching that if he had told them he could not walk. He would not have walked (considering the man had never walked in his life before)

Now tell me what I have added or removed from the scriptures

Great job negro,
May Jehovah remember you for this tireless effort o

Gombs:
Chapter 9 loading...

Stay tuned!

Bidam,
Had the primitive church applied your theory of 'The truth remains the same, but how it is applied in the light of greater understanding may change, ' they would have persisted in the circumcision but they didn't. Circumcision was summarily dismissed in Acts 15 Jerusalem Council. They did not seek its 'greater understanding'. They said it was not a condition for the new covenant. Can you imagine the confusion with some Christians still persisting in the practice but 'under greater understanding'?

They discarded the practice and maintained the inward/spiritual relevance of the same if at all. How can you retain/persist in the external and claim you have a greater understanding? You still keeping the Law

Take Freewill offerings. They burnt animals. Does your church burn animals with a 'greater understanding'? They don't. They take note of the spiritual significance of the freewill offerings WITHOUT retaining the external aspects.

This is the key to understanding tithing. The principle behind it is giving and supporting the ministers. When I support ministers, am operating under the principle of tithing behind Mosaic tithes. I don't have to tithe 10% of my agricultural produce or even income (follow Torah to the letter) to live out this principle

The way you approach child dedication, you are arbitrarily mutilating the Torah practice and whatever you think is relevant for you, you retain. This is subjectivity. Somebody may still deem the turtledoves relevant even today and you would not correct them

In short, you don't have to carry out an OT/Torah practice to walk in its greater understanding/significance/TRUTH

Bidam:
Like i said earlier, God did away with animal sacrifice for sin, that He might establish the second sacrifice( Jesus), this is Grace and is applicable anywhere. God's approach in this case changed and the Spirit behind the law is what God is interested in. The truth remains the same, but how it is applied in the light of greater understanding may change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8vhmb_bX1E

Thank you sir,
That is what we mean by God's sovereignty.God has mercy on whom He will. He healed a Syrian of leprosy and left all the Jewish lepers

The moment you realize that it is all up to Him, you don't make some of the arrogant statements we hear from WOFers. They hate the word mercy because it exposes their place as mere mortals and not goDs, they are used to ordering Jesus like he is their small bro. This is blasphemy. It is quite possible the reason WOFers don't achieve as many miracles is because God resists their pride.

Bidam:
[b]God indeed had mercy on epaphroditus [/b]as a result of Paul's prayer of faith.
God's predetermined will and counsel will surely comes to pass, whether it is healing, prayer etc.. but there has to be a human partnership and a definite input from His children in the earth in line with His desired end product. E.g If Moses can't take the children to the promise land, Joshua will.

Very true. You should be telling that to mbaemeka.
Here are all the scenarios that are recorded to have generated miracles;
1. Faith on BOTH the potential miracle candidate and the one praying
2. Faith on the potential miracle candidate alone like the woman with issue of blood,
3. Faith on the part of one praying alone like in this case or raising the dead or restoring the severed soldier's ear

Lack of faith is not the same thing as faithlessness. The dead can't possibly muster faith. This is different from those who doubted Jesus too much and as such he couldn't heal or perform miracles.

Since we have evidence of miracles being procured WITHOUT ANY faith on the part of the recipient,we should not be hearing lack-of-faith excuses from WOFers whenever they fail to procure a miracle because the potential recipients had some faith to start with. I seldom hear them blaming their own lack of faith, it is always the recipient. Proud pricks

nlMediator:
You do realize one can be healed by another's faith, e.g. a preacher's (or an apostle's) faith? In which case, it is still faith, not your sovereignty escape route. Jesus said the disciples could not heal the kid in Mark 9 because the disciples lacked sufficient faith.

Salvation and healing are as different as day and night. Here is why
1. Before a man can fall down on his knees in repentance, the Holy Spirit MUST have drawn him to Christ and convicted him of his sins. So God's work in a man does not start in repentance, that's a culmination. Why would God draw you to him and then keep you in your sinful state?

2. From Peter's experience at Cornelius house, we see that even a prayer of repentance is unnecessary, they received the gift reserved for those who repent just from hearing. This just confirms how God is more than eager adopt us

3. There are incidences of healing not procured instantly but NO slightest hint of delayed acceptance of repenting sinners. Epaphroditus fell sick and approached death before God had mercy. His healing was not instant. Timothy had frequent ailments and regardless of how you translate the word ailment, it was something God could have dealt with there and then but he didn't. Instead, Paul hit the naturopathy route. Trophimus,Paul's co-worker was too sick to travel with him.

4. So you have two options, explain away these three instances as lack of faith or revise your false belief in INSTANT. Paul's thorn in the flesh I omitted for obvious reasons; you have nothing to say about it

Does the fact that they never received healing instantly void Jesus promise of responding to their faith? Nope, it just points to sovereignty. Faith, prayers and scriptures don't suspend God's sovereignty contrary to your fantasies, it is still up to God and that's why Paul says God had mercy on Epaphroditus.

So you can name ANY man of faith you can think of and I can show you a string of not-so-instant prayers answered or not answered according to his petition

mbaemeka:
Let's factor God's sovereignty into salvation. If a man believes the gospel with all his heart and he declares it with his mouth does he have to wait to see if God in all his sovereignty will accept the man's request for salvation? If not then why was this faith certain to receive and how does this faith differ from the faith to get healed?

Please don't call rubbish the Word of God. Read this verse under any translation and you will find that you are adding to the scriptures. There is a warning against adding to the Word.

Let's read together

Acts 3:4-7 (ESV)
4 And Peter directed his gaze at him, as did John, and said, “Look at us.” 5 And he fixed his attention on them, expecting to receive something from them. 6 But Peter said, “I have no silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk!” 7 And he took him by the right hand and raised him up, and immediately his feet and ankles were made strong.

The man did not try to stand up on his own in response to Peter's command. That's an invention. Peter took his hand and raised him up.
Please don't add to scriptures. You may wish me death by car crash or suicide by poisoning but don't add to the Scriptures. That's depravity

Besides, Peter raised up Dorcas and Paul raised Eutychus. These two were impervious to faith since they were dead. How much faith did their corpses muster?

mbaemeka:
1. Rubbish. They told him to get up and walk and what did he do? He responded by trying to get up and then they took him by the hand and lifted him up and then he saw he could walk. His response to their instruction is called faith no matter how little it was.

2. As though being a christian makes the receiving any less possible.

Paul's scenario in the book of Corinthians never painted Christians as pitiable you. . .He said if our hope in Jesus was ONLY in this life then we would be pitiable. Please read up.

Digression. The man at the gate is a terrible example especially for WOFers
1. The man received instant healing WITHOUT any faith from his side. How often do you do that or don't you attribute your failures at playing Divinity to the recipient's faith?
2. The man was not a Christian

Back to the subject, why did Paul's no-resurrection scenario paint Christians as the most pitiable yet they had access to Divine health,Divine Wealth, Happiness and Longevity? Please explain this verse to us

mbaemeka:
Gibberish laden diatribe. John and Peter met a man at the beautiful gate. They had an opportunity to tell him about resurrecting to a better life after suffering for 40 long years but guess what they did? They healed him in this life and still told him about the resurrection that is better. You see the man's hope in christ didn't only benefit him in the world to come. It benefited him in this present life!

Excellent submission. But do you deny that God had mercy on Epaphroditus? This is a simple yes/no question. Holy Spirit through Paul says He did

About the verse I shared from Romans, Paul is expositing Election by applying a Torah scripture. Am saying the same principle is at hand when it comes to healing and prayer. God's sovereignty is a rein, it prevents me from flapping gum claiming to be a godess like some of you, it keeps me, a mere mortal made in God's image in my place. James' 'God willing' is exactly that, keeping men from conceit

Bidam:
Mercy, Grace, healings are God's prerogative. In fact Jesus made an emphatic statement that healing is the children's bread. that is to say it is their right to ask for it. Does a baker withhold bread from his children? And to get what you want from God, Faith plays a vital role. The bible says Faith is a substance and faith is an evidence. Faith is released out of an active HOPE that is the soul's anchor. Paul had hoped that epaphroditus will get well soon and he did get well. So we can say HOPE played a vital role here because, it happily exist in that period of time between request and realization and converts anxious waiting to eager joy.
God's mercies are new every morning to every of His children. His compassion concerning them does not fail. The scripture you just quoted has to do with gentile salvation into the new covenant by grace. Read the whole context. The gentiles were saved because of God's mercies not that they deserved it.

Please follow the thrust of Paul's argument;
1. For a Corinthian Christian who doesn't believe in resurrection, the total benefits of knowing Christ are realized under the sun
2. Not everybody is a Christian
3. To empirically test the benefits of salvation IF THERE WERE NO RESURRECTION,we'd need to compare the present state of the ideal Christian with a non-Christian
4. Compared to the rest of the humanity, Christians (at least at that time), fared the worst as a result of their faith and as such, Christianity has no meaning seeing they had nothing on unbelievers.
5. It can ONLY make sense being a Christian if there is MORE to faith than the present life
6. This is why Christians so eagerly believe in the resurrection

Now, if immediate and tangible benefits of Christianity is wealth,health and long life not to mention happiness, Christianity even in absence of resurrection would still be attractive. Paul is just describing how it is not. So mbaemeka and other WOFers, not only are you promising impossible things, you lack the power to deliver and certainly God is not on your side to back up these claims. You are just setting yourself and your ignorant sheeple up for epic disappointments

mbaemeka:
You are so filled with delusion that you are constipated by it. Paul said if in christ we have hope in this life ONLY we are to be pitied. In otherwords our hope is not only in this life- it is in this life and the one to come. But you would not see this because you typed whimsically and exposed your shallowness again. How sad.

Faith+reciting scriptures/speaking faith is no formula for earthly bliss. That's what nanny is saying. The formula does NOT ALWAYS get you whatever you want whenever

Gombs:
So, faith don't always work ie it doesn't work all the time!... hmmmm

Dear Lord Jesus, help my patience, amen

Mbaemeka,
I have a challenge for you, an invitation to debate. More details coming

James said that you pray and have faith. Please pray away Boko Haram not next week BUT NOW. Or Ebola.

What am aksin from you is your BEST excuse for not invoking the same doctrine of instant, the same that Paul did not deem fit to prescribe to Timothy's frequent ailments. You can start by reminding us how wicked talk brings down a city from Proverbs

mbaemeka:
Mercy, kindness la dida is God's response to faith. You clearly need to go back and restudy what faith is so you don't keep on confusing yourself. What many (like the teachers that confused you) say about the will of God or his sovereignty is often misappropriated and misapplied and you as a result of such confusion have misapplied your understanding to the word of God.

You see, such talk about "If it is God's will it will happen and if not it will not happen" or "God is sovereign:he does what he likes" may sound reasonable based on what you think you see but that is not what God's word says. Gombs has already mentioned it to you and I would do so again for emphasis. James 1

6 Only it must be in faith that he asks with no wavering (no hesitating, no doubting). For the one who wavers (hesitates, doubts) is like the billowing surge out at sea that is blown hither and thither and tossed by the wind.

7 For truly, l[b]et not such a person imagine that he will receive anything [he asks for] from the Lord[/b],

8 [For being as he is] a man of two minds (hesitating, dubious, irresolute), [he is] unstable and unreliable and uncertain about everything [he thinks, feels, decides].

Well, James said I should tell you and your teachers that if you ask God for anything [in this case wisdom] and then you conclude that if he wills it he would give it to you and if he doesn't he won't, that you are NOT walking in FAITH and will NOT receive anything from God. So miss me with your sovereignty talk again.

Simpleton, are atheistic and pagan nations the most suffering in the world? The problem of Syria is not because there are no Christians there any more than non-Christians falling sick and dying is; the problem of the fallen nature of this creation, wars, earthquakes, viruses,injustice,murder,rape and so forth


Go through this list of Per capita income and tell me what Nigeria with Christ Embassy hooliganism and Christianized witchcraft has on Qatar
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD

Gombs:
Don't mind her, God's sovereignty and love and mercy must have turned a blind eye to the Christians in Syria.

Gombs and Bidam,
FAITH is not the opposite of MERCY; they are not mutually exclusive
Paul prayed but God had mercy and that's what saved Epaphroditus otherwise WHY would Paul say God had mercy if He didn't?
Did God have mercy on Epaphroditus or not whether Paul and the entire church prayed for the sick dude?

When you pray,it is because you have faith in God to do it, but whether He does it depends on His sovereignty. He will show mercy on whom He will

Romans 9:14- 16 (ESV)
14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy

Bidam:
Look at the verse you quoted slowly without adding your prejudices to it. notice the large fonts i highlighted. It was actually as a result of Paul's prayer God had mercy on epaphroditus, not the other way round.

The question now is did Paul pray for Epaphroditus? Good. Go back to chapter 1 of Paul's letter since Epaphroditus was a fellow believer at Philippi before he was sent to Paul by the Church.

Philippians 1:3(NIV)


3 I thank my God every time I remember you. 4 In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy

Gombs please quit regurgitating Rhapsodies BS
Philippians 2:25-27 (ESV)
I have thought it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus my brother and fellow worker and fellow soldier, and your messenger and minister to my need, 26 for he has been longing for you all and has been distressed because you heard that he was ill. 27 Indeed he was ill, near to death. But God had mercy on him, and not only on him but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.

That's Paul's co-worker healed due to MERCY!

Gombs:
Against my better judgement, did I reply to this post! A quick quiz please, where was God's mercy when Elijah prayed for no rains? Was that faith or God's mercy?

Like Bidam righly said, you have an issue with the definition of faith. James wrote

[NLT] James 1:6 But when you ask him, be sure that your faith is in God alone . Do not waver, for a person with divided loyalty is as unsettled as a wave of the sea that is blown and tossed by the wind.
[NLT] James 1:7 Such people should not expect to receive anything from the Lord.


God is moved by faith ONLY, not mercy! if mercy moved God to change situations, why hasn't His mercy changed the situation in Syria?

The problem is that of extrapolation; imagining that a particular verse or verses is a yardstick.
Take Jesus miracles of healing. They were so diverse, at times a mere word did it, next he touched,others he applied mud and so forth. There just is NO formula to the healings.

Prayers in their entirety. Some are instant, others are not. You can't possibly string a doctrine of INSTANT. if you do, the harsh reality that all are not will turn your ignorant and fickle argument on its head. So you invent excuses to rationalize the reality; you have little faith hence the delay blah blah blah.....

Take mbaemeka's claims to divinity that have nothing on reality, he falls sick,ages,will die, prospers just as the next Satanist. To accommodate the contradictions, he has to twist scriptures and top it up with a fertile imagination. Jesus needs his consent before taking him home Exactly what can believer claim to have that non believers don't or can't access? Certainly not wealth nor health or even long life. What about vooks? I couldn't possibly care if heathens beat me on long life,wealth or health. It is not a contradiction of my faith because I never said I was better than them on any of this!

WOF is basically materialism, the other extreme of Christian-wealth relationship. If Christ's plans for Christians is BEST health,wealth and longest life, then in absence of eternity of after-life, Christians ought to be the most enviable people under the sun. But Paul thinks otherwise.

1Cor 15-19 (ESV)
19 If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.

nannymcphee:
There is nothing that suggest from the scriptures that Hezekiah got instant result because he had great faith(rather it was Gods mercy at work & the way he wanted things to go)

Where then is the instantness in "intercessory prayers"?

Thank you Trustman,
Believers must always be on guard against human traditions that void the Word of God. These are powerful forces and am learning Christian traditions are no different from conspiracy theories. Earlier this year I was kicked out of a Christian forum for questioning their conspiracy leanings such as moon-landings-were-faked and Obama-is-the-beast. They said I was divisive whereas all I sought was to interrogate the claims. They said their leader had done sufficient research on this and nothing was necessary

Here I have broached a few traditions and the reactions are out there;
1. Isaac sowed in famine
2. Paul rebuked Peter in front of leaders and not rank and file
3. Jesus cursed a tree for not having a tree out of season
4. Blood of an infant comes from the father not the mother

The problem with traditions just like in Jesus time,is that they are given the force of scriptures. Nobody will admit that they heard it, they all claim it was some super spiritual revelation that birthed these ideas.

Have a blessed Lord's Day

trustman:
. Long held views are difficult to give up but humility goes a long way to make anyone teachable.
Thanks again.

The income streams. You know the members are giving and you can see the MoG waxing fatter but you don't know how much they are getting per month. That's super secret. That's the opaque bit

Image123:
So, the source of their wealth is almost entirely from their members' giving, yet it is opaque and dubious at the same time.

It's you you negroes who tell us about Jesus and harvest (not harvest time) you implied that Jesus can demand harvest ANY TIME as he did here. But he wasn't demanding a harvest out of season, the tree was in season going by its leaves. The tree ought to have had some fruits

As usual you are a pathetic face-sitter and you worship godess mbaemeka. You trust him to think for you

Gombs:
Now, you've answered, what was the whole fuss about?



Our answers are similar, I still find it unbelievable, but I know with proper mopping by Mba and Bidam, you tend to get a rub off of the Word. Congratulations bro! More grace.

How did he know you had vowed? Either you left your details or you told him

When you go to church and leave your details plus your commitment to offer something, it is not unreasonable to recieve calls reminding you of your commitment. That's unwarranted conclusion. If you have issues against the church. Don't cling to this incidence as proof of nothing

fubbyy:
does he even suppose 2 ask me about the money for one minute,did I make any promise to him? Am I owing him?

This whole thing has made it dawn on me that church is a business,money I promised to God na wetin man come dey worry me

Young negro, let me help you
1. Jesus cursed the tree because it was unfruitful despite the lush green foliage which is a sign of fruitfulness

2. There is nothing here like Jesus demanding fruit out of season, the tree had no fruit and could not have produced anything even when others were producing

3. If Jesus cursed an innocent fig, that would have been abuse of power no matter what lesson you scrape off the incidence

Go tell Oyaks to respect scriptures

Gombs:
Bidam you get time o, God bless your patience.

No time for gibberish.
Why did Jesus curse the tree? When will you learn to answer questions directly without writing novels?

Bidam:
This are the kinds of baseless arguments, i never wanted to indulge with you this morning. I alreday did answer, your question and i expect you to answer mine. I treated the whole CONTEXT of Jesus teachings in that particular scripture, you quoted, i didn't just pick a verse and run mundanely with it like you are doing here.

So in your little mind the tree was innocent? Did Jesus not preexist His birth, was He not the creator of the said tree?
So stop regurtitating what did evangelists of old said and tell us YOUR OWN INTERPRETATION OF THAT VERSE. I remember you are the guy falsely accusing me of copying oyak which i never did.
There was a legitimate demand from Jesus for fruit, just like i said earlier on. God doesn't exist in time. Jesus knew why He demanded for fruit when He visited the tree.

I didnt get this interpretation from anywhere , neither did i consult any so called evangelists of old to know what the word of God says. I prayerfully studied the verse of scripture ok?
The way you attack folks erroneously with your bile and sentiments leaves much to be desired in the topic of discuss. You are not the only one with a different view on this forum, you cannot say me and Gombs agree on every doctrine in the Christian faith.
Leave the appolegtics aside and read the whole CONTEXT to see what Jesus is teaching you.
So are you against Jesus being judgemental to a tree that He requires it to produce fruit but it didn't. Are you a JW appologetic.
Your opinions. I see the tree as a symbol. I don't curse trees mind you, if Jesus did that to drive home a spiritual principle, i am all for it.
Your comprehension concerning it is what? That Jesus defied God the Father to curse the fig? You are beginning to sound like an heretic here. If you do not understand a passage, let it rest and stop breeding heresies all over the place.
Maybe you should look at the many times he censored unfruitfulness, when He gave people talents, in John 15:6, and the Luke account i gave you earlier on...there are so many scriptures concerning fruit bearings, i won't waste my time searching them for you. You go on that quest.

Are you gay negro?

Gombs:
https://www.reactiongifs.com/r/haderdance.gif

Brain is a terrible thing to waste

AdeniyiA:
https://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/top-news/170400-synagogue-building-mystery-plane-likely-a-nigerian-air-force-jet.html?share=facebook#