₦airaland Forum

Sick illogic. Jesus intercedes for the saints. To whom does he intercede? To God? Does God intercede to God? What/who does he use to intercede?

The point is there is nothing absurd in Jesus (God) interceding for us to the Father(God) so why does it appear ludicrous that the Spirit (God) does the same?

mbaemeka:
I don't know how you people read.

1. Likewise the spirit helps US.
2. In OUR OWN weaknesses
3. For WE do not know how to PRAY the way we ought to.
4. So the Spirit makes intercession FOR US with groanings.

Helps- joint help, a partnership. The Holy Spirit partners with us when we are weak in prayer because we do not pray rightly as we ought to. So he intercedes for us through groanings.

How does the spirit groan? Through us.
Why? Because we may not be praying rightly.

The verse is clear enough. The Holy Spirit does not stand on his own. He is God himself. He cannot pray to himself so he uses the christian to pray so that he would pray rightly. That's why it is a collaborative effort.

High Priestly ministry even in the OT was for God's people not EVERYONE. There is nothing in Hebrews suggesting intercession is for everyone. The very verse employs pronoun THEM. who are 'them'? Those that come to God by Him. How difficult is it to see that. We are running against man made traditions again!

Show me where Christ's intercession is for EVERYONE. Your question is hopelessly irrelevant. You need to aks you EXACTLY what intercession Christ lives to make for those that come to God by him. Who told you it is forgiveness? Silly strawman you are erecting and knocking off


The parallel between Jesus' and Holy Spirit intercession role is to demonstrate how they are done independent of the beneficiary. So there is no way Spirit intercession can be the very prayers you are making

mbaemeka:
Go back and read my posts well and stop asking me questions OP. I said Jesus role as an intercessor is not the same with the Holy Spirit's because the Holy Spirit's role is metted out to the christian with the cooperation of the Christian but Jesus role is for the whole of mankind. If you read that whole chapter well you would understand the writers point. Paul was saying that as High priests in the past made sacrifices for themselves and for others this present High priest did same for others even if he himself did not need it. But unlike the other high priests who needed to keep making the same sacrifices yearly and who eventually died this present high priest did his once and is forever alive to make intercession for those that come to him.

The question you would need to answer in understanding that verse is to ask yourself why he needs to make the intercession. Is it that he needs to reshow the father his blood and say forgive him, forgive her or is it that his blood is forever there as proof that those who are in him are forgiven? Does he speak or does his blood speak?

Now compare that with the Holy Spirit's role to the church

Semantics again.....The help is by way of intercession. So define intercession other than praying for somebody

mbaemeka:
Thank God the bible said the Holy Spirit helps US and not that he does it for us. The greek has shown that the help refers to a corroborative effort. The Holy Spirit does not automatically do anything. He helps us while we pray. That's what the scriptures say.

Who told u am Shndemidemi?

Grow up and then debate maturely and I will dignify your post by responding to them

Bidam:
Na you sabi that one . Let me open your blind eyes here. Does the Holy Spirit speaks through thin air? Look at this verse of scripture.

Acts 13:2 "As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.". You can interpret this verse and say the Holy Spirit is speaking through the air to the disciples gathered here since according to vooks aka shdemidemi God's Spirit is in the air.

God is more than willing to give Holy Spirit to those who aks among His children

Bidam:
Let's go through some verses on the Holy Spirit shall we? What do you think this scripture is saying here?
LUKE 11:11-13
11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father GIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT TO THEM THAT ASK HIM?

You have to really stray outside the verse to string this and then add a dash of imagination

Simple questions;
1. What is intercession?
2. Who makes the intercession
2. How does He make intercession?

Bidam:
You are going wide off sir! The question is how does the Holy Spirit groans in believers. Read that verse in Romans 8:26 again. It said we do not know HOW TO PRAY FOR AS WE OUGHT TO. Care to explain why the Holy Spirit is related to the prayers of Christians here? Logic 101, [size=16pt]except a christian prays[/size] the Holy doesn't groan in that particular verse...a simple comprehensible verse really.

Tithers are the ones who proclaim curses on anti tithers and gloat over 'open heavens' breakthroughs and harvest anti tithers willMEVER walk in. You have examples of people questioning tithing being excommunicated. In short ant-tithers are persecuted more than Tithers.

There is SUFFICIENT evidence of the early/primitive church giving both on and off scriptures to allow us to conclude what they practiced. This is not an argument from silence. We know they gave and were exhorted to give freely without any benchmarks such as 10%. It is dishonest to deny history especially when it does not favor you. Tithing,Christmas,infant baptism were all introduced into Christianity hundreds of years AFTER Pentecost.

Jesus is depicted as a carpenter's son and as such he could not have tithed if carpentry is all he did because tithes were agricultural and not income. Scriptures say so and so does history; Jews tithed agricultural produce from Israel alone so somebody not in agriculture vocation such as a carpenter or a tax collector was not eligible to tithe.

Image123, this is personal. Would you prescribe animal offerings of somebody who God miraculously healed? Jesus did just that and you would be following His example. The fact of the matter is you would NEVER. For once there are no priests to confirm the leprosy is gone nor to offer the sacrifices on his behalf. So this is a perfect example of a command Jesus gave yet it is not applicable to you or me. In the same way, you can't claim that Jesus is telling you to tithe because he told some Jews/Pharisees to tithe. Do you understand this point?

About selling all you have, am glad you find the CONDITION for doing it, it is not a universal command EXCEPT that be the only thing you are lacking. Similarly, the tithing injunction is not universal except you be a Pharisee. So how comes you insist on context when it comes to the selling of all you have yet you are totally ignorant of the context Jesus told the Pharisees to tithe? And do you note they were tithing BEFORE Jesus told them to? He asked them to add to their tithing other Weightier things of the law so as to keep it in the fullest

Image123:
Rather, nobody should look down on those of us that tithe. That is what all the antitithers here do.



The Scripture does not support humans sacrificing humans. There is no evidence whatsoever to conclude that tithing was never practiced at all.



Then you people need to stop asserting that Jesus never tithed. It keeps repeating itself, and when you are logically shown the possibility and Jesus'commendation of the tithe, you resort to the under the law line. If i debunk this again, i know your next line. This cycle has happened too many times already. i sincerely do not know why any knowledgeable person would ASSERT and insist that Jesus never gave tithes, or His disciples. When you assert it, there is no way one would not come up with bible passages like Matthew 23 which show the possibility. On ex-lepers, who told you that nobody today offers animal sacrifices after they have been healed? how do you come to such a claim? How many people have you seen healed, and how do you know what they gave or did not give? You have started again with unfounded assertions.


Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

If that is the one thing i lacked, i would practice it. This passage remains a well taught passage today in churches. Of course one needs to understand the passage instead of just brashly brushing it aside with logic.

Hebrew 7:25 (KJV)
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

This is the verse I had in mind when I compared Holy Spirit Intercession to Christ's High Priestly work in heaven. Intercession however you look at it is something done on behalf of men and nobody has explained how this is accomplished through my own prayers. Let's not be so dogmatic in reading tongues in Romans 8:26 just because we been told so

Mbaemeka,
About Jesus interceding for the whole world, you have provided a verse that says Jesus is PROPITIATION for the whole world a term am sure is totally different from intercession. Please, with the same energy you are dissecting HELPETH, paste the meaning of the word propitiation or at least look it up and you will see it is different. Propitiation has everything to do with the sacrifice and this is available for the whole world to any who believes. Intercession He does for believers alone.

Mediation is intuitive. He does it for all men. Nobody comes to the Father except through Him. This is closely related to the propitiation (sacrifice). But intercession, that's a Christians-only benefit

My brother,
A few facts you want to ponder;
1. Jewish Christians in the first century practiced Torah to varying extents
2. They were careful not to impose any of these practices on their fellow Christian Gentiles
3. Mosaic Baby dedications was modified into infant baptism among Christians hundreds of years AFTER Pentecost

If you have anything else to add, or if you want to dispute please reply otherwise we are done here.

Thank you for your time and accept my apologies for any offence caused by my posts here on NL. Cheers bro

Bidam:
Are my forceful words stinging you like the prop you like the prophets of old? , You too should realx and stop making a false premise.
The issue is not about a proselyte, i know who a proselyte is. The issue is about acts 10 which you keep on shifting, going wide off the mark and quoting irrelevancies here.You must understand that the eunuch from Ethiopia was not considered a “Gentile” in the sense that Cornelius and his household were Gentiles (Acts 10:45). Cornelius and his household were uncircumcised Gentiles who were considered by the Jews to be unclean (Acts 10:28); proselytes, on the other hand, were granted fellowship by the Jews (i.e., they were not unclean; cf. Acts 2:10; 13:43). Following the conversion of Cornelius and his household, “the apostles and brethren who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God. That is when gentiles came into the fold and not the other way round except you want to re- write another version of the bible.
Irrelevant and inconsequential to my question,
This is thrash and in no way answer the question i posed earlier.
What do you expect me to say when you keep posting thrash and irrelevancies that in no way address my question posed to you after i answered yours.

What Gift of the Spirit does the laughing WORK, following your healing analogy?
And what do you understand as the difference between a Gift and a Working?

mbaemeka:
Off point again without answering my own questions. The workings of the spirit cannot be boxed. That's what I am trying to show to you and it is different from the gifts. Let me explain with an example: there is a gift of healing but the workings for that gift cannot be boxed. So the Holy Spirit can say "Vooks spit on him and his tumor will leave". You see, your spitting does not mean that any time you see a tumor you spit. That's where many got it wrong. The only reason you spat at the time was that the Author of healings told you to. Now you may not find any instance where anyone spat to elicit a miracle in the bible, yet it doesn't make the spitting not of God especially when Jesus was being glorified during the healing.

Hope you understand.

You always make angry posts. Relax bro, this is not a matter of death and life

Please study the meaning of the word PROSELYTE here http://biblehub.com/greek/4339.htm . It means Gentiles converted to Judaism. You don't have Jewish proselytes sir. Hoping this verse will help with the understanding;

Matthew 23:15 English Standard Version (ESV)
15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell[a] as yourselves.

Now, the point is Mosaic practices were practiced by Jews obviously and after pentecost, we find Jews persisting in some of these practices.....going to the temple,Vows,Feasts,Sabbath and so forth. They were NEVER imposed on the Gentiles at any point and when some attempted, a Council was convened in Acts 15 to resolve this.

We can therefore conclude that NO Jewish/Mosaic practices were kept by Gentiles of the primitive church. Things like tithing and child dedication/baptism were introduced into Christianity hundreds of years after pentecost. It is not that they had them but they stopped, they never had them in the first place.

Whenever people say your opinion is noted, they are telling you to shut up. I have but I request you to examine any of my statements and disprove what am saying. Am free to learn from you sir as the Spirit reveals to you. I don't know everything.

Bidam:
i wonder what gave you such impressions This is the fourth time you are making such unfounded allegations. I may be irritated by your write ups but why should i be angry? What for?
They are your ONLY options, as far as scripture is concerned.
Scripture NEVER called them gentiles either. Or why do you think they are divided into circumcision and uncircumcision group? Was Nicolaus not a circumcised jew?
Sorry these are your opinions. Nicolaus was a Jew, you do not know whether he had a Jewish father or Mother.
Ok, your opinions is duly noted.

Call them Gifts or Workings, they are restricted to what scriptures say.
tongues of fire happened once. Other instances they are not there so we don't look forward to them. Mighty rushing wind twice. But in Cornelius none of that happened so again this is not a must.

Scriptures have enough diversity of manifestation of the Spirit son! Anything outside this is not of the Holy Spirit

mbaemeka:
The Holy Spirit told Jesus to use spittle and he did. That's how the Holy Spirit is. Secondly, there is a gift of the Holy Spirit and there are WORKINGS of the Holy Spirit. You see how you keep exposing yourself? You didn't know this because you do not have the gift nor know the giver. Peter saw Cornelius display the gift of the Holy Spirit but did he see cloven tongues of fire? Did he see a mighty rush of wind? Those are WORKINGS and they cannot be boxed Mister.

[size=3pt]Arrogance is that you do not know or understand something, but you delve into the debate with nothing to contribute and when you are challenged to prove to that you have something meaningful to contribute you start throwing invectives and conjectures.

If you have experienced any workings of the Holy Spirit please share them with us. Let us compare it with Paul's. That's just what I want to establish. And if you cannot, we can conclude that the only reason you disbelieve Kenneth Hagin's experience is because you have none for yourself. Period.[/size]

there are several types of false gospel
1. Judgementless gospel---God is good, everyone will be saved somewhat
2. Therapeautic gospel----feel good. Non believers love it without being pricked
3. Sins-have-no-consequences----you have sinned/failed? Forget it and focus on where you haven't failed

And so forth. Praise be to Lord Jesus for a gospel that pricks

Who told you he does not believe in the spiritual gifts?
See that's your strategy too, perch yourself on a pedestal far above your 'opponent' and claim they are immature,newbies,babies or fetuses,carnal, not Spirit baptized/filled/drunk....

Disputing the claim of speaking/praying in tongues in Romans does not mean that I don't believe in the gifts. Just saying whatever Paul is saying here is not tongues

Bidam:
Unlike you, that quotes out of context, i do quote in context. The Holy Spirit doesn't groan outside believers. The Holy Spirit is not an 'itself' rendering of the greek in KJV, so we have to know WHO the Holy Spirit is, What He does and How He does His things. So in order not to "force" our opinions into what Paul is saying like your 'friends in arms' are doing here, we have to interprete scripture with scripture So it is of no use arguing with folks who don't believe in spiritual gifts, the arguments have been on for centuries. It is best to keep quiet about what you don't know rather than belittle and blaspheme the person of the Holy Spirit.

If you have contrary views say so, rather than troll on my posts.

That's the whole point; depict you as unqualified to question him. So now it is about who speaks in tongues and who doesn't. if both of you do, it is about who speaks in tongues of angels and who doesn't. Again if both of you speak in tongues of angels, it will be about who has been speaking in tongues of angels for the longest. This is pentecostal pharisee spirit right here.

Am used to him, call me a satanist but respond to my points or withdraw yours. THe beauty of NL is even when nobody concedes, the other readers can easily tell who is desperately clinging to weak doctrines at all costs as well as who is indoctrinated

WinsomeX:
My guy, the thing tire me o!

My brother,
Why are you always angry?

The reason a YES/NO would not do is because those are not the ONLY options and you are forcing me into a false dilemma.
Scriptures don't say Hellenistic Jews but Hellenists which means Greeks. But granted that I may be wrong and that the Ethiopian was a Jew and the Hellenists were also Jew, what do you have to say about Nicolaus the proselyte who was as Spirit filled as Stephen?

What happened in Cornelius was the Spirit FIRST came upon Gentiles who were not following Mosaic law. This is why Peter was surprised. He had seen Nicolaus among others Gentiles operating in the GIfts but they were proselytes/ 'Jews'

What Romans 1:16 says MUST be interpreted in the light of Acts. We go to Acts and find Jews coming to Christ, we also find proselytes before Gentiles proper come to Christ. So Paul is saying the gospel came to those UNDER Moses first and then those not UNDER Moses

You can disregard my 'outward piety' and stick to scriptures. forget my name as well. Stick to scriptures.

Bidam:
You just love to dribble sha. A yes or no would have done this home work na.SMH! The scripture is clear as noon day that cornelius house is the starting place in which the gentiles came in.All other inferences you made concerning hellenistic jews and ethopians are your opinions.Scriptures did not call them gentiles.
Scriptures did not say Jews and gentiles. You did. I am surprised that as an advocate of dispensation and replacement theology you will be writing this. Paul was clear " He said THE JEWS FIRST then THE GENTILES"( Rom 1 :16).
Stop being sanctimonius on my thread. Folks who don't know you in other threads would assume that. I am not taken in by your outward show of piety.

Actually, am leaning against Romans 8:26 referring to tongues. My reasons are the Work of the Holy Spirit is called INTERCESSION. That means praying on our behalf. But when praying in tongues, it is my spirit praying not Holy Spirit praying for me.

I call to remembrance the High priestly role of Christ in heaven where He liveth to make INTERCESSION for us. Is whatever Jesus doing different from what the Spirit does, because Jesus is depicted as a separate entity from the believer actively doing something FOR him? It is hard to make INTERCESSION of the Spirit FOR me to mean my prayers

INTERCESSION therefore is the KEY to unravelling Romans 8:26 and not the unutterable groans

Bidam:
Yea. The greek in Romans 8:26 literally reads "...the Holy Ghost maketh intercession for us in groanings that cannot be uttered in articulate speech".

Articulate speech means your regular kind of speech. But the Greek stresses that it doesn't only includes groanings escaping from our lips in prayer but also praying in other tongues in 1 cor 14:14 you quoted.

Sir I beg to differ, there were Gentiles in Christ long before Cornelius. A good example is the Ethiopian Eunuch. Do you also recall the Hellenists who murmured that jews neglected their widows?

Acts 6:1,5 English Standard Version (ESV)
Now in these days when the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint by the Hellenists[a] arose against the Hebrews because their widows were being neglected in the daily distribution.

5 And what they said pleased the whole gathering, and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolaus, a proselyte of Antioch.

Proselytes are Gentiles who had converted to Judaism and had been circumcised. They kept the Torah as much as any Jew. We see a sizeable number of them now converting to Christianity LONG before Cornelius.

To answer your question, the FIRST converts were Jews and Gentile proselytes or those who followed Judaism/Torah. I would say the proselytes were fewer than the jews among the first converts.

My brother, I am not the devil, I have no intention of ensnaring you. Please allow scriptures to minister to you

Bidam:
No, you did not, you are being dishonest and wayward here, it actually took quite A LENGTH OF PERIOD before gentiles came into the fold and that is in Acts 10. Now the question Mr.vooks which you started and are deliberately dodging in all your gimmicks to trap me is...WHO ARE THE FIRST CONVERTS you called "primitive christians" after pentecost?

I have answered your question but I will gladly do it again
primitive Christians were Jews,Gentiles and proselytes believers of the first century

I humbly request you my brother to refute ANY of what I have stated

Bidam:
Welcome back from your sabbatical. Pls do save your write up for the gullible. You asked a question and i answered. Pls could you answer mine in all honesty? Who are the first converts at pentecost you called primitive christians? Is it jews or is it gentiles? Who are the FIRST to partake of the LORD'S TABLE.?

This is a personal jab meant at blackmailing you to back off.
Spirit has weighed your heart and found it wanting thus saith mbaemeka.
I find it decidedly curious that he resorts to the very tactics Jehovah's witnesses use when they are cornered;
1. Do not cast your pearl to swine
2. You are not Spirit filled so you don't and can't know the truth. You are a worthless primate

IF Spirit takes you to levels not recorded, against what do you measure them? This is the error of subjective progressive revelation where scriptures are not sufficient or not everything there is to God. It is mbaemeka's spiritual experiences and discernment that counts, perish the Epistles. This is how Joseph Smith birthed LDS and Ellen White SDA

If you know enough be kind enough to share some of those experiences you have enjoyed from your fellowship with him and if you cannot do so we would rightly conclude that you have none. I also have constant fellowship with the Holy spirit with many experiences to back my claim whether you believe it or not. He told me that you do not have any fellowship with him and even if he didn't the very words of the scripture prove that you do not. We can do a random check, do you speak in tongues?

WinsomeX:
While Jesus speak through his word and his Spirit, there is nothing he has ever said through his Spirit that cannot be found on the pages of scriptures. Thus the saints are called to prove all things and discard whatever is being said by spirits that are not of him.

Jesus healing with spittle and mud is one of the diverse means of carrying out healing. I believe His diversity points to His creativity as God, He is not limited.

But Diversity of Spiritual gifts are fully expounded in the epistles. And this with very intelligent reasons. If Holy Spirit omitted some practices but later revealed them to you, then there was no point of revealing ANY manifestation.

Recall Peter saw Cornelius manifesting the SAME gifts while he yet spake. Point is the Christian has a reference point, the recorded manifestation of the gifts and teachings of the same. Care to guess if Cornelius started barking like a dog or hissing like a snake whether Peter would have concluded that the Spirit had fallen on them?


Arrogance is when you remind everyone that you have spiritual gifts and therefore you win the argument. That's unnecessary. Who told you we don't? Only that our subjective experience is totally irrelevant to the discussion. It's no different from reminding us that you use Vaseline hand and body lotion

mbaemeka:
Paul mentioned interpretation of tongues in the book of Corinthians and that is how you knew about it. Period. Now tell us where Jesus got the idea that he could use spittle to heal a blind man and if you come up with any rubbish on sovereignty I would rest my case with you.



You and your delusions. That's why I eschew discussing with you.



I am quoting scriptures, stating how my experiences match up to the very scriptures and I am accused of "arrogantly flashing my works". As if it is my fault that you do not know the scriptures nor the author of the scriptures or can you prove me wrong by not evading my question again; do you speak in tongues or do you have any of the workings of the spirit as explained by Paul in Corinthians?

Primitive Church refers to First century believers whether Jews,proselytes or Gentiles. Primitive refers to early or old not derogatory for backward

Can you see that Torah was kept by Jewish Christians while care was taken not to impose any of it on Gentiles (you and vooks)other than the four essential things mentioned in Acts 15?

If your basis for child dedication is Jewish Christians keeping it, please don't stop at that, circumcise too,take Nazirite vows, observe the Feasts, Passover,Tabernacles, offer sacrifices as well.

These people whom God entrusted with inspiration of New Testament never imposed Torah on Gentiles regardless of whatever spiritual significance it's rites and practices carried. They certainly NEVER had child dedication among Gentiles in the first century. It was not until hundreds of years later that Catholicism introduced infant baptism as a Christisn parallel to Torah baby dedication. This makes dedication a tradition, a late tradition just like tithing.

I noticed you are too embarrassed to admit dedication is a LATE Christian tradition. You are an angry and now dishonest. Please remember that God resists the proud, humble yourself and accept the Truth. It is very liberating. Shalom

Bidam:
Who are the first century primitive christians Jews or gentiles.

Mbaemeka,
If Paul had not penned Romans we would have called groanings extra-biblical and this rightfully so because nowhere is it taught. But note when we talk of extra biblical manifestation we are talking of either disciples never manifesting &/ a teaching of the same missing. We have no record of interpretation of tongues yet we know it is of Spirit because Holy Spirit taught us.

Did you just edit your post? Thank God Winsomex had commented on it. Did you shoot yourself in the hoof?

I love the way you arrogantly flash your works, using the name of Jesus and now manifesting gifts to drive a point home. This is usually when you run out of ideas, you are essentially saying, 'hey, am too spiritual and I know better even if I lose this debate' Men test doctrine by scriptures NOT experiences. Hoping you know experiences birthed Mormons. And this is mysticism BTW, experiences which can't be measured by Spirit-Inspired scriptures because Holy Spirit forgot to record or manifest them in the Primitive/early church

Ok sir, let's wait.

Allow me to ask you, do you believe tha Holy Spirit manifests in ways different from what is recorded in the scriptures?

nlMediator:
Vengeful must have a different meaning from the one in the dictionary.

In fairness to the "accuser" brother, he never said that Hagin used the title of Apostle. One can claim to be an apostle while disclaiming the use of that or other title. So, let's give the brother a chance to provide just ONE example of Hagin claiming to be an apostle or claiming to be called to the office of an apostle. Asking him to show an instance of Hagin using the title or addressing himself as Apostle will be a taller order.

So, since He never said that,does He manifest in any way not recorded in the scriptures?

mbaemeka:
He never told us that his manifestations are ONLY what would be recorded in scripture.

OK. Please note it is not the primitive church but Jews. If you recall, paul went as far as circumcising a Gentile to avoid unnecessary hostilities with his detractors. Here is Apostle James urging him to take the Nazarite vow and go to Jerusalem for the same reasons. Do you know anything about this vow? I can share.

Now my dear brother, please read the next verses confirming that this Jewishness was restricted to Jewish Christians and not Gentiles;

Acts 21:25-29 New King James Version (NKJV)

25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing,[a] except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.”
26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them.

Do you see how James is careful not to prescribe these to Gentiles since in Acts 15 when they convened in Jerusalem they had clearly indicated what part of the Torah was applicable to the Gentiles? In fact in the next verse, they arrested Paul and accused him of bringing a Gentile (Trophimus) to the temple. It was a false accusation but we learn from it that only Jews participated in these Mosaic practices since Trophimus clearly never took the vow together with paul

27 Now when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple, stirred up the whole crowd and laid hands on him,
28 crying out, “Men of Israel, help! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people, the law, and this place; and furthermore he also brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place.”
29 (For they had previously[b] seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)

The point is, Torah/Mosaic practices (Feasts,Sabbath,Nazarite Vow,circumcision,tithing...) in the Primitive Church by the Jews were strictly for the Jews and as such it is wrong to draw a parallel from them if you are not a Jew

PS: Have you noticed that the Temple was off-limit for Gentiles? How could Gentile Christians do baby dedication ritual part of which entailed offering a sacrifice in the temple?

Bidam:
I wonder why you think such notions.

Anyway the scripture buttressed my point and answered your question that your early primitive church did hold onto the teachings of moses even after pentecost..child circumcision, dedication...etc.

Do you ever dream of pastoring one?
I once heard TB Jakes quip that the things that offend you most and quickly could point to your assignment. Just saying sir

dein77:
Summary is, there are many churches out there. Everyone should attend the one that suits their values and standards. I currently worship with the RCCG. ..

That's what am asking. How is this related to what you said? I don't get the relationship nor WHAT you were trying to say. Why are you always angry sir?

Bidam:
Relate the scripture you quoted to what i said when you reffered Peter, James and other apostles as "primitive christians" and what they told Apostle Paul when he appeared in Jerusalem at the tail end of his ministry.

You mentioned potential converts being chased away due to high standards. I'd rank that last as a reason for leaving fellowship. See if a fellowship packaged itself attractive for the world, it most likely will compromise.This is why you hear of a carnal church. It is a tight rope my brother I can assure you. Too friendly and they become like them, too Puritan and nobody can hear them due to the height of the pedestal they perched themselves on

dein77:
I agree. Except for very fundamental issues of doctrines, leaving a church due to the matters you listed in ur posts, is really petty.

But you agree that sometimes Christians can get petty? They will move for the flimsiest excuse; pastor's English is not refined, poor sound, uneducated congregation...

dein77:
I have no qualms with churches setting their own standards. Of course, you were right; the woman should have known the norms and standards of the MFM.

My grouse is, many churches have used their standards to chase away converts Christ would have saved. Christianity should not be burdensome. Jesus told us His yoke is easy and His burden is light.

I have those moments I wish I was a kid. That's when the idea of silly gifs come up

Gombs:
Save that for neonates!

Can Holy Spirit manifest Himself differently from what is recorded in the scriptures?

mbaemeka:
[size=4pt]Very well.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit will be sent in his name (John 14:26) but the name of a Person isn't only in the pronunciation but also in the demonstration of the character behind the name and the authority behind the character. So even if I don't 'say' in Jesus name to do some things, one can still tell that he is behind what I am doing as long as it is done in his words or deeds (Colossians 3:17).

For example, the OT already talked about speaking in tongues as a manifestation of the Spirit of God. But on the day of Pentecost, many Jews and proselyte Jews saw that prophecy being manifested yet they critisized it because it did not happen to who they expected it to happen to and when they expected it as well.

In Romans 8:26 Paul spoke about another way that the Holy Spirit could manifest himself through a believer. On first read, you would think he was referring to speaking in tongues there but that could not be as Tongues in itself is a heavenly language but in ARTICULATE speech. In other words, proper words are spoken but they are of a heavenly origin. But in this verse I cited Paul said the Holy Spirit could also manifest himself through "unutterable" groans. This means the groans will not be in pronounceable words or in articulate speech but they would still have a heavenly meaning (in this case the will of God).

I am sure you have seen someone groan. Now imagine looking at him praying and groaning making funny sounds would you not think some thing is wrong? Well in the physical standpoint it could appear that way but Paul said in the spiritrealm such a person will be praying the will of God. Now compare groaning to laughing. We can see that they have the same denominators in the sense that they are both 'unutterable' or 'inarticulate'. So we would be amiss to see someone who might be praying that way and assume that he is doing so under any unction but the Holy Spirit's. That's why Jesus spoke and blindness left yet at another time he spat into the ground and used the mud to heal blindness. Who instructed him to do it either ways? The Holy Spirit.[/size] Do we have a fixed way for determining how he would manifest himself? The answer is simply no.