₦airaland Forum

uchkochi:
Who is sitting on your file? God answered the prayers of Daniel, but the prince of persia sat on that answer for 21 days. Your miracle has left the hand of God since the first time you prayed but satanic, manipulative forces are sitting on it. I am sent to break barriers today, and I must break those barriers. In the name of Jesus Christ, whom I serve, I uproot the forces sitting on your long approved miracle in Jesus mighty name.

God moved the obstacles to Daniel INDEPENDENT of Daniel. Stop vainly intruding into the unseen and imagining enemies who are not there. Read this book
http://www.spiritualwarfaredeliverance.com/books/02-christian-spiritual-warfare-book/

Winsomex,
This is straight from MacArthur, the same source you quoted.

a. The Gift of Prophecy

"...whether there be prophecies, they shall be done away..."

The plural word "prophecies" is making reference to the result of the gift of prophecy--many prophecies. Basically, this gift was the ability to proclaim God's truth publicly. The Greek word for prophecy comes from the two Greek words pro (meaning "before" and phemi (meaning "to speak". So it literally means "to speak before." Its primary use is "to speak before an audience" (forthtelling), not "to speak before" in terms of time (foretelling). The gift of prophecy, then, was to speak before people, proclaiming the Word of God. The purpose of this gift is indicated in 1 Corinthians 14:3, where Paul says, "But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort." Someone with this gift speaks to build others up, to encourage them to good behavior, and to comfort them in their trouble. That is the gift of prophecy.

Do you agree with him?
If you do, tell me the difference between prophesying and teaching and also on what basis 'forth telling is primary and not foretelling.

The reason I ask is because Paul who would not suffer women to teach men had no qualms with women prophesying in public. This tells me prophecy is not primarily or even secondarily teaching else Paul contradicted himself.

Am currently researching on the 'prophecy is more of forthtelling than foretelling' cliche which is quite popular. I want to understand its historicity. Just like so many strands of WoF go back to Keynon, am certain there was a man who said this and it was accepted as the truth.

PS
Am not challenging your beliefs so don't get defensive

Gombs,

there is a difference between the gift of tongues that accompanies the baptism in the Holy Spirit, which every believer can receive, and the gift of tongues that is a ministry gift.

What difference?
Verses please!

Gombs:


I don't need back up... I've always left a discussion with you when you go haywire and start throwing tantrums.

So now, "son" is demeaning? Noted Bro!

Am mighty surprised you started dropping the word 'son' halfway when the going got rough.

Am still waiting for the DIFFERENCE between the gift of tongues exercised by the called and uncalled

Gombs:
Continued...

Notice that in writing to the Church at Corinth, Paul very definitely encouraged the Corinthian Christians to follow the practice of speaking with tongues in their own private prayer lives. And he gave a number of reasons for it.

1. Devotional Use—Speaking Divine Secrets

There is the devotional use of tongues. Sounds strange, but it's true, and totally biblical.

1 Corinthians 14:2 says, “For he who speaks in a ‘tongue’ addresses God, not man; no one understands him; he is talking of divine secrets in the Spirit” (Moffatt). Here, Paul is talking about the individual Spirit-filled believer employing the use of tongues in his prayer life. notice, it was talking about an individual praying in tongues.

Through speaking in tongues, you can pray out the plan of God for your life by the power of the Holy Spirit. Why? How? Because he speaks to God, By then help of the Holy Spirit, who helps us pray as we ought to, making intercessions with groans that cannot be uttered. When I speak in tongues...My Spirit prays.

2. Spiritual Edification

Tongues are also used as a means of spiritual edi­fication. The Bible says, “He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifteth himself . . .” (1 Cor. 14:4). The word “edifieth” means to build up.
You could see same in the book of Jude 20....it talks about building oneself... Praying in the Holy Ghost.

Reading on in the same chapter, The Amplified Bible reads, “My spirit [by the Holy Spirit within me] prays, but my mind is unpro­ductive . . .” (1 Cor. 14:14).

So praying in tongues is not for mental edification, but for spiritual edification. Simple and clear.

3.Worshipping God

The Bible says in Acts 10:46 concerning Cor­nelius and his household when they began to speak with tongues, “For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. . . .” . Speaking with tongues is a supernatural way to magnify God. Oh! I know that experience!

4. Doorway to the Supernatural

Speaking with tongues is the doorway into all the other spiritual gifts. I've not seen any who manifests the gifts of the Spirit, and doesn't speak in other tongues.... I'm yet to see any.

Some people want to experience all the gifts of the Spirit at once, but you have to go through the door to get into the supernatural. This is why we have many failed churches. Churches who want to manifest the gifts they've read about,yet they still say tongues are done away with.

I don't necessarily agree but I will let it pass

Regardless of the use of tongues, if uninterpteted, they have no role whatsoever in public worship

If you do not speak in other tongues, there are depths in God and Christianity you'd never experience.

Another baseless cliche
Given that not all speak in tongues, and the Spirit does not divide this gift to everyone, there can't possibly be depths locked in a gift unavailable to all.

Also, it is as the Spirit of God wills, not as we will (1 Cor. 12:11). In other words, you can’t force or “put on” a manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit.

The Bible teaches us to desire spiritual gifts (1 Cor. 14:1), a point I tried getting vooks to understand...he rather said;



A ploy to water down the gifts of tongues. However, the Bible also teaches us to earnestly covet the best gifts (1 Cor. 12:31).

Let's remember that those words were written to people who already spoke in tongues. They weren’t written to people who did not speak with tongues.

Paul's desire is for edification for the body of Christ not individuals and that is why he urges tongue speakers to seek interpretation, and he equates interpreted tongues with prophecy which he calls the highest of all gifts.
Uninterpreted tongues benefit nobody but the speaker. And he would have none of unintelligible in public precisely because of this
1 Cor 14:12 (KJV)
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

Am pretty sure Gombs can't interpret any of his tongues yet he will revel in them as some achievement. Question is, how many has your hours of tongues edified?

Conclusion:

God has given each of us a supernatural means of edifying ourselves, or building ourselves up, spiritually. God has given to us a supernatural means of communicating with and worshipping Him. As a Spirit-filled believer take full advantage of the gift of tongues.

Very true, but it is a bold lie that tongues are 'there' for everyone.

Cc: WinsomeX


Scripture,? It's dotted all over 1Corinthians 14... Try verse 4. Paul encouraged the practice of speaking in tongues in their own private prayer life.

Even when Uninterpreted, tongues are still potent

athaboi:
get behind me satan

Satanism is praying to the dead

Gombs:
Whatever sails yout boat, son, is fine with me!

You found this thread civil. Try and leave it that way.

If I prophesy now, does it mean I'm called into the office of a prophet? Don't try to twist my point... I can see you're doing a shoddy job at it.

I would say a single manifestation of a gift don't mean you are in that 'office'. Hagin long observed this. If you want to be understood, be coherent and more importantly back up your post with scriptures.

Meanwhile, you didn't answer my question...


Since you said the gifts of tongues are One and the same.

A tongue of men or angel remains a tongue and there is no such artificial distinction imagined here;
It’s important to understand that there is a difference between the gift of tongues that accompanies the baptism in the Holy Spirit, which every believer can receive, and the gift of tongues that is a ministry gift.

Wait for my continuation son!

Remain civil. 'Son' is demeaning but am least offended. Take your time, if you want a week to go get backup, get Joagbaje,Google, Hagin and all. Winsomex does not mind waiting
Here, am only interested in the Word of Life and so far, you are very far from it

athaboi:
i dont pray to her..i only ask to interced on my behalf. Help me and and told to his son Jesus jst like the way u ask ur pastor to pray for u. Ur pastor only prays for u and is left for God to answer. U knw u dont have any point, u r jst making a noise

You ask a dead being to pray for you. How different is that from necromancy from Saul asking a dead Samuel for direction?

Gombs:
.

When done just say so.

The Corinthians were ALREADY operating in all of the gifts. It is abuse Paul dealt with and not novelty of he same. So their not ALL operating in ALL the gifts is not a sign of ignorance but a fact of life. He never stopped at tongues, he listed ALL the gifts.

Paul was not writing to them so they may operate in all but that they may exercise them wisely and maturely.

Slow it down Old sport! By Gift of tongues as a ministry Gift, as I saw it, is the utterances those called to those offices utter, by the Spirit. I wasn't trying to say there's an office of tongues.

Too proud to admit goofing.
So a spiritual gift exercised by anyone called to 'those offices' become a 'ministry gift' different from the average Joe, the 'uncalled'?

Question is HOW are the utterances by the Spirit 'those called to those offices utter' different from the utterance by the Spirit manifesting vide an uncalled dude like you?

Gombs:





Well, they can be understood fully, if they're looked into with scriptures.

There are no scripture on Knowledge or Wisdom. But there is plenty of presumption and speculation

Very correct.



You're getting it right. Hagin was so on point there. Did you read the book?

Did

Really!? How exactly?

Because there is nothing such as office of tongues and tongues, there is just tongues.

By, "Unlearned", you mean? Keep this verse in perspective..

Acts 2:4

4 And they were all filled with the[b] Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.[/b]

By unlearned I mean a language you have never learned before so you can't communicate in it of your own. For instance, if you have never learnt Mandarin and suddenly you prayed in Mandarin. Unlearned is not in a derogatory sense as in illiterate and ignorant.

Wrong buddy! There are

1 Corinthians 13

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels,

I mean the gift of tongues is ONE and the same, you don't have office of tongues, ministry of tongues and then the gift of tongues; all you have are tongues

Wrong again. There are...

Ephesians 4:10
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Those are ministry gifts. Paul said Jesus gave them as gifts to the church.

There is no ministry or office called tongues nor administration or discernment yet these are spiritual gifts. Catch my drift?

Is this verse EXHAUSTIVE of ministries/ callings?

It’s important to understand that there is a difference between the gift of tongues that accompanies the baptism in the Holy Spirit, which every believer can receive, and the gift of tongues that is a ministry gift.

It is IMPORTANT to understand that you just imagine this. But it is not exactly imagining but regurgitating Hagin WITHOUT a shred of evidence from the scriptures

Why is this 'gift of tongues as ministry gift conspicuously missing from the Ephesians list?

Spiritual gifts are given by impartation (ask for proof), and yeah.. It is for all believers, Paul asked us to desire spiritual gifts. Ministry gifts on the other hand is a calling, not imparted.

You just cooked another vocabulary. All gifts are from Holy Spirit. Simple biblical truth free of men craftiness. Paul exhorts us to pursue higher gift of prophecy one he had just indicated to be a gift. Seems like you need to teach him a thing or two about impartation vs calling.

Ummm... I lost you a while ago. Mind rephrasing.

Is tongues a MINISTRY/OFFICE?

Quit flipping buddy!

If you don't understand, read it slowly

I'd have to let this humor me.




But there are.

Once again, tongues are tongues. You don't have ministry/office you just have tongues and Paul is clear that NOT ALL speak in tongues at Corinth

Contents

And embracing grace giving

http://www.tithing.com/Breaking-and-Embracing.pdf#zoom=100

Image123:
Tithing is not SENSELESS copying or repetition. BTW, any 2 or 3 things you learn from the Israelites 40years in the wilderness?
You need to understand that James and scriptures generally is talking in context of being born again/justified/pleasing acceptable to God. The route to being acceptable to God has changed. If one wants to follow the old testament route, then one has to follow it thoroughly which BTW is impossible(says the Bible). Nothing wrong with good works(tithing is one), but if you want to use good works route to be justified or seen as righteous before God, you have to observe every law without missing it(which i say again is impossible). Jesus told the people of His time that none of them was keeping the law. Paul said all have sinned and there is none good, not one etc. That route is impossible. The new testament route is faith in Jesus. You will continue to miss it and be confused if you don't understand this foundational truth, whoever YOU are. Get that into your spirit.

Tithing like circumcision is a work of the Law and you can't even do it right seeing there is no priesthood to receive your tithe and you are not even in agriculture which is the only activity that was tithed from.

I have a problem with believers who VAINLY try to keep portions of the law so religiously and they find others who are least bothered unfaithful to God

Gombs:
Having read this much, I must say I'm intrigued at this thread. I love the way each one presented matters, devoid of personal tantrums. This is some good start.

I'd like to say a thing or two, and I Hope we get some flavor from it. I've always being in the WoF, I've followed Kenyon, Hagin, Idahosa, and now Oyakhilome. I've studied these folks, and what they taught, and I believe them wholly. There are times I rejected what they taught, for example, there are times Hagin contradicted Oyakhilome, at a point, I had to contact joagbaje for counsel. However... This is about tongues, and clearly, they all agree on same, so, I'd write on my thoughts, after some study and experiences.

The issue of tongues in the church is a really interesting one, because all Christians ought to speak in tongues. However, due to certain teachings, and religious battery of scriptures,we are where we are today, and God will surely fix His Church.

In the Church world today, many people say, “Tongues have been done away with, because the Bible says that tongues will cease.” The Bible does say that one day, tongues will cease (1 Corinthians 13:8–12), but that is not referring to this present Church Age. In Heaven, there will be no necessity for tongues, because that which is perfect will have come (1 Cor. 13:10).

There are those who purport to believe in speak­ing in tongues but do not feel that tongues are neces­sary for all believers. It’s important to understand that there is a difference between the gift of tongues that accompanies the baptism in the Holy Spirit, which every believer can receive, and the gift of tongues that is a ministry gift.

I hope this is understood... It's important.

(For a more detailed teaching on this subject, please read, The Holy Spirit and His Gifts Study Guide - Kenneth Hagin)

I will be talking about the gift of tongues given for every believer. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is for all those who believe (Acts 2:38–39); therefore, speaking in tongues as an evidence of the Spirit’s infilling is also for all those who believe. This cannot be swept under the carpet. If you're born again, you're qualified for the baptism of the Holy Ghost, and speaking in tongues is an evidence of the infilling of the Spirit. No wonder Jesus said "they shall speak with new tongues" Mark 16:17b

Many have been robbed of the blessings God intended them to have by believing that speaking in tongues isn’t for everyone. But the Word shows us that every believer needs to be filled with the Holy Ghost. And the Word says that when we get filled with the Holy Ghost, we will speak with tongues (Acts 2:4).

However, speaking with tongues does not occur as just one initial experience of being filled with the Holy Ghost, and then it ceases. Speaking with tongues is a continual experience for the rest of one’s life.

Notice that in writing to the Church at Corinth, Paul very definitely encouraged the Corinthian Christians to follow the practice of speaking with tongues in their own private prayer lives. And he gave a number of reasons for it.


...to be continued

You make some points which should be examined in their own like,
1. all believers ought to speak in tongues
2. There is a difference between 'gift of tongues accompanying baptism of Holy Spirit and the gift of tongues as a ministry gift.

One thing about spiritual gifts is hat they are not fully defined , and this leaves room for all sorts of creativity and guesswork. For instance, what is Knowledge? What is Wisdom?

Hagin made an excellent observation that while possessing a spiritual gift necessarily entails manifesting it, manifesting one does not mean you possess it. He went on and gave examples of prophecy. Holy Spirit may impress onto your spirit a prophetic word for a particular moment but you don't become a prophet. Or healing. Praying for a sick person and God healing them does not mean you have the gift. And so forth

Where he erred greatly is arbitrary inventing 'offices' of a particular gift. It is good for the mind but has zero scriptural basis. This is a shining example of the creativity I have just mentioned.

To the best of my understanding and I stand corrected, tongues are supernatural ability to speak an unlearned language. And there are no types of tongues or offices or ministry. And the gift is not is not for all believers. All spiritual gifts are beneficial for all but not all walk in all and most certainly not all walk in ANY. And this is not any mistake on their side.

Paul was quite particular that the unintelligible has no place in public worship whether it be prayer,song,exhortation. It is discourteous plain and simple. Many Pentecostals have grown into a culture of impunity where this is routinely flouted, and they find censuring it too much seeing they are equally guilty. They resort to theological gymnastics and aberrations such as inventing types of tongues.

Cessationists observing this flagrant breach of these clear regulations rightly accuse Pentecostals of anarchy. The half baked dishonest retorts of 'types' of tongues among others don't help at all.

So we have the epic clash of Cessationists baseless claims and Pentecostals impunity and thousands of books and arguments in between

Gombs:
Ah... I'm back. I have an off day today.

You see the rules my friend create? They give me some laugh.

Let me read on. I've missed much

Common Cessationist arguments;
1. 1 Cor 14:4 is the ONLY verse that associates edification from uninterpreted tongues THEREFORE it is unreliable source of doctrine/belief as doctrines are strewn across epistles and verses

2. Paul ONLY dwelt at length on spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians and nowhere else. Therefore, spiritual gifts are non-essential else they could have graced several epistles and perhaps attracted a sermonette by Jesus Christ.

You know my broda how we have differed on so many points but am certain you can agree with me that hear are wild arguments from silence.

On #1, an honest truth seeker would endeavor to find what the verse means. John Calvin a man from hundreds of years ago figured it; Paul sought to strike a balance between ABUSE and disUSE of spiritual gifts. He will lambast the Corinthians for ABUSE but he extols the merits of the gifts at the same time lest Corinthians turn skeptics like Cessationist. Uninterpreted tongues have benefits but their full value is in interpretation at which point they equal prophecy the highest of all gifts.

On point #2, why would Paul dedicate THREE chapters dwelling on a trivial subject?

Cessationism is a form of skepticism. You have believers who think virgin birth is a myth but they accept he rest of Christian tenets. A Cessationist probably thinks that it is possible to doubt spiritual gifts and remain a Christian, they are essentially pushing the limits of who a Christian is.

I have never seen some gifts in operation and I don't need to see them to believe Holy Spirit gives them out. I have also seen some gifts abused and faked but the fakery need not cloud some simple truth that Holy Spirit still authors genuine gifts. My attitude is simply believing before seeing, just like I believe in Jesus and resurrection without witnessing any.

When you think about it, skepticism is he opposite of faith

gabe15:
keep having sleepless night about him mtcheew

I sleep like a baby, my heart bleeds for the deluded folks like you

athaboi:
holy mary mother of God! Mother of justice, queen of peace.

You know praying to idols don't make them God

Halob:
They gave me initially the cheque for the landlord which was #1.2m , then gave me a cheque for my services which was #60k and refused paying for legal charges, the ripple of that was when the agent in charge of the property approached the church and instead of him making his claims and facing the church he made it look like I was the one that wasn't truthful , then the church banked on it and started saying I was dubious. Funny thing is that I gave the church an invoice and they never complained , every amount I charged was stated in the invoice , if I was dubious why didn't they tackle me on the invoice, why did they wait till when they had paid the landlord before talking about my fee. I wish the topic reaches front page but if it doesn't I will have to find bloggers to make this topic a topic. I will not go to the higher to church to solve this I want them to figure it out themselves.

I hear you my broda, but why did you accept a check for your services minus one for the legal charges?

Having said that, abuse of trust hurts the most. If thugs rob me at gun point, I don't get hurt as they never knew me in the first place, but somebody I trust? That's something else

Psalm 55:12-14English Standard Version (ESV)

12 For it is not an enemy who taunts me—
then I could bear it;
it is not an adversary who deals insolently with me—
then I could hide from him.
13 But it is you, a man, my equal,
my companion, my familiar friend.
14 We used to take sweet counsel together;
within God's house we walked in the throng.

Jesus must have felt the same about Judas but he forgave him

xest:
how?

He is telling Negroes to separate stupidity and paganism from Christianity

MuttleyLaff:
The work of the Holy Spirit has been so totally misrepresented.
There are essentially three forces in Christianity. This is called the third force: Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, and Pentecostalism.

And we have said much through the years, the church has, about the errors of Roman Catholicism.

We have said a whole lot less about the errors of Pentecostalism because they threaten us with accusations of being divisive, and that causes some people to be silent.

I’m not defending the truth for the sake of my own church or the sake of my own opinion.
I’m eager to defend the truth for the sake of the Holy Spirit, not that He needs me as a defender,
but He needs me to not grieve Him and not quench Him and not insult Him and certainly to recognize what dishonors Him.
I feel like the psalmist who said, ''The reproaches that fall on you have fallen on me''

When the Holy Spirit is dishonored, I feel the pain, and it seems to be a very popular sport to do that.

This is one of the most abused texts in the New Testament by the Charismatics.
I always expect my Bible to bleed here because it’s been wounded so many times.

They want us to believe that this is an advocacy for – advocacy text for speaking in tongues, this “groanings too deep for words.”
They want us to believe that what this verse is saying is that when you don’t know how to pray in words that you do understand, launch off into glossolalia in words that you don’t understand and this is the Holy Spirit doing what you can’t do.

That is not what this verse means, as you will see in a moment. It’s utterly foreign to the reality of the meaning of this text to impose that on it.

- culled from
Groanings Too Deep for Words by John MacArthur

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@Ubenedictus @Squad4 @sportsmaster, @ABDULADINO, @gombs, @An2elect2, @Goshen360
WinsomeX is 110% correct in saying that gibberish is what is espoused as talking in a different language among modern day believers

By the way, though old habit are difficult to die, its close to 11 years now that I've managed to curtail doing this gibberish or nonsense
and I deliberately said, managed, because it sometimes wants to subconsciously rear its ugly head and slip back in
Mind you, I do groaning in the spirit (i.e. that's where & when applicable) but dont anymore do gibberish
- aside the different kinds of groaning out of pain, out of despair, out of pleasure etcetera,
there is a distinction (i.e. particularly in regards to when praying) between groaning in the spirit and talking gibberish
Jesus groaned in the spirit (i.e. John 11:33 and John 11:38)
but it wasnt the sort of gibberish thing we have and see in modern believers settings or gatherings

As said, I, too, when praying intensely do experience groaning in the spirit
- it usually is making deep inarticulate sound(s) or grunts during praying, out of pain, anguish, desperation or some strong emotion
Want to believe, its similar to, if not on par with that, Hannah style of praying (i.e. 1 Samuel 1:10)

No one should allow anyone to label and box them.
I dont suffer labelling gladly or lightly.
If it were I, instead of accepting a label,
I would've asked what, to the questioner's understanding, is a cessationist and what is cessationist all about, for anyone to be called such

As from the little familiarity I know of WinsomeX, he shouldnt have easily succumbed to the veiled combative question
namely because
#1 he believes prophecy hasnt stopped,
#2 believes healing hasnt stopped, and
#3 believes speaking in different tongues hasnt stopped

The above are in one shape or the other still very much around and are presented below as:
#1 Prophecy - now in form of word of wisdom and/or the word of knowledge (i.e. 1 Corinthians 12:8')
#2 Healing - gifts of healing and various kinds of tongues (i.e. 1 Corinthians 12:28)
#3 Different tongue(s) - Apart from the gift of various kinds of tongues in 1 Corinthians 12:28,
FLS, is another form of the gift of speaking in a different tongue,
albeit some here, like our always on form vooks, might class it as tongue in cheek for referencing it here

The thing is, a lot of the time, we read the Bible and take it at face value only,
without bothering looking under the hood to find hidden meanings in passages such as 1 Corinthians 14
Also, the desire to understand the bigger picture or motive behind what the person (i.e. Paul) was actually saying in 1 Corinthians 14, is usually not there.
In addition, the curiosity to know, what brought the saying about in 1 Corinthians 14,
why the saying had to be said the manner/way it was said, the circumstances, the setting, background etcetera is most times absent.

It is an unhidden fact, that with the exception of Ephesus, Paul stayed at Corinth longer than any other city in the NT times we know of.
Ancient Corinth was a sailing port, hence a cosmopolitan city, where one expects to hear diverse languages spoke,
see imported & different customs etcetera and so the believers at Corinth wouldnt be an exception to this
as they too would have been exposed to varied external influences, habits etcetera of people from region different to their individual origins

Paul, understandably, albeit without having to need two tablets, like Moses needed for his headaches with the Israelites,
had his fair share of headaches with the church at Corinth than any other of his Bible recorded visiting place

This obviously is due to the diversities in culture, languages, habits, practices etcetera from the wide range of congregating ''outsiders'' in Corinth

I have to pause here but will asap continue from where I've temporaily stopped

PS: By the way Jude 1:20 has nothing to do speaking in tongues but means what it says out of the tin
(i.e. means literally pray in the Holy Spirit, as in like one of those ''thy will be done'' prayers)

MacArthur
So Pentecostalism is not Protestantism?
Anyways, he can keep all the good tags and slogans for himself and MacArthurism
He is so passionate in his war against continuationism that he will not hesitate to label them UNSAVED. To MacArthur either you are Reformed Calvinist or a heretic.

That aside, there is this haughty spirit around the dude that he imagines to be the lone voice criticizing Pentecostalism. Books have been penned against the errors of Pentecostalism long before MacArthur penned any. The other thing to note about his criticism is it is ever so uneven. A Cessationist heretic gets a light pat in the back from MacArthur but not a Pentecostal and a good example is the Mar's Hill implosion. The cessationists simply looked the other way as they could not muster enough cojones to criticize or even rebuke their 'own'

And now to a more important point or question for you.
1. What is your reading of the verse? Is 1 Cor 14:2 talking about paganism complete with a god in it?

2. Is there ANY merit in some arguments we read here that UNKNOWN tongue is different from tongues?

And finally

#3 Different tongue(s) - Apart from the gift of various kinds of tongues in 1 Corinthians 12:28,
FLS, is another form of the gift of speaking in a different tongue,

What is 'different tongue(s)' and how does that differ from 'various kinds of tongues'? And what is FLS?

gabe15:
he is still in the church I even saw him last week Sunday

You are not the first to catch an apparition of the Negro,
Somebody knows somebody who saw him 'a few Sundays ago. What was he doing in church? Was he been delivered from absenteeism?

airsaylongcon:
It is a VERY DANGEROUS thing to do business on trust. Like Fashola said, the only thing that can bring enmity amongst brothers is money (paraphrased).

I suggest you take it as one of them things, move on and learn. In business I but everything in black and white with signed and dated copies (I include time on some sef lol).

Your business is one were people have a general perception that the practitioners are dubious/cunning. I suggest u professionalise your operations and develop standard operating procedures.

Correct
Business is business and church is church
Whenever a church constructs a building, hey engage the services of professionals; engineers, surveyors, architects and so forth.

As a realtor, you may feel led to offer your services for free. Note, you are no bound to do so any more than you are bound to part with a single note from your wallet.

If you offer your services to a church and express intention to charge them for this, then you are dealing with the church as any other customer and due procedures ought to be followed.

I strongly belief this was largely a matter of communication breakdown and the church did not try to swindle you. Had you made your case strong before the transaction they'd have either paid you or went around you. The latter is fraudulent and in that case you'd have an ocassion to take offense.

Note, am not exonerating the church as such, in fact it is quite possible they had no intention of paying you at all (evil) but you so readily played along that it comes as a surprise to all that you are now protesting

Halob:
Bro I Dont think am that ignorant. I appreciate you taking time to read it , talkless of replyin . But before I got the cheque two days earlier to be precise I gave the church an invoice. One for the parish pastor (paper) and the other PDF for the senior pastor via emai . They never got back to me saying they wouldn't pay the fees I state . They just kept mute.

They gave you a check for less that the full value or failed to give you separate checks for the services of the lawyers and realtors/agents.

This means you accepted less than full value for the work and HOPED they would pay. What you should have done is turn down the check and walk away if they would not pay you upfront.

My point is you used TRUST and it came back to bite you. Where money is concerned, I only trust my wife and our close relations.

To get my point, look at how you would have handled it differently had a stranger approached your office for your services. Would you accept a less than full amount check, that was way below your invoice figure?

athaboi:
as u judge me today, i pray as a child of God that God may hv mercy on u during ur judgement day. Even as u judge me with all conviction today, may God show u mercy.tnx

Depart from worthless idols

plappville:
The Name Jesus saves anytime I call on it. Its force is awesome. I used it to defeat bad dream it has always worked for me. So I don't think it's important Wether we call it Jesus or Yeshua.

You are blessed my broda.
The strength of the name Jesus is not in its pronounciation nor spelling but on the person behind it. As a matter of fact, the name was quite common in the first century, but when talking about Jesus of Nazareth, Jesus Christ, you are actually talking about the authority of Christ. And He moves, virtue flows from him

dorox:
The Malaysian airline was shot down on the 17th of July, 2014 while flying over a war zone on the borders of Russia and Ukraine, But our ever seeing TB Joshua had to wait till the 31st of August, 2014 to make a prediction of an imminent crash in the same region. Now you might not think much of it, but the long wait of over a month between the Malaysian Airline crash and TB Joshua's prediction of another crash show how shrewd TB Joshua is in playing probabilities.
Soon after the plane was brought down both sides denied responsibilities and the fighting became more subdued as a temporary truce was declared. However, things began to heat up seriously again about a month after the plane crash that was when our dear pastor gambled that since it happened once it can happen twice.
In summary, he made his prediction when the hostilities in that region was at it's peak, that is why he said the crash was imminent.

Excellente

The charlatan focuses on high probability events such as school shooting in the US, derailment in India, terror attacks in Europe or Kenya, earthquakes around continental plates

He then gets deliberately vague and uses the vagueness to maneuver around.

And finally, he prophecies AFTER FACT as much as possible

Case in point. #MH370
Remember they had released a #MH370 fulfillment video claiming that TB Joshua was right all along when he said it was in the bottom of the ocean. This was after they discovered a flaperon and everyone thought it was from the flight.

First. By the time he went public with his string of prophecies, including claiming to know the exact crash site, everyone knew the plane had crashed in the sea away from any radar.

TB Joshua is just another Naija scammer


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVrrPu6bZm0

OP is an ignorant Negro.
You don't mix your faith/trust with business. You should have NEVER assumed the pastor knew or would not object to the attendant fees.

Here is how to do business;
1. Communicate all conditions and fees to your church
2. If they are not agreeable, pull out
3. If they agree then change their minds, pull out
4. If they pressure you to render services for free and you are not ready, pull out

gabe15:
they are still much around

Why TB Joshua gone under for 5 months?
He busy 'seeking the Lord'?

athaboi:
whatever!

What is 'whatever'?
We leave you alone to perish with your idols?

Towards the end of his life, Kenneth Hagin discarded some Pentecostal junk. He penned a book, The Midas Touch.
http://www.ekklesia.lt/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Kenneth-E-Hagin-The-Midas-Touch.pdf

I wish this Negro Pharisee can muster some bronze cojones to flush down the loo his junk well BEFORE he checks out so he don't leave his sheeple confused. Now is the time to drop the Pharisee garb not over his formalin filled veins

Osezzua:
cool

What is cool?

Topgainer:
It usual to hear this statement from the competing empires. One million souls or membership under a hybrid gospel does not guarantee heaven.
The issue of heaven is a more serious business than the prosperity jamboree marketed and distributed. One danger with the Hybrid gospel is that it will eventually breed pseudo Christians whose hearts are set firmly in the love of the World as against the teachings of Christ not to love the world and the things of the world
In another place, it says the love of many for God will wax cold
It is already happening

You have a proper understanding of how to get souls to heaven than Jesus himself. How many have you escorted to heaven? Gombs, come help this broda with maths. Seems he can't count