₦airaland Forum

EVarn:
This is the most ridiculous arguement I have heard for quite a while now,how is "son" different from "sons"?,isnt "sons" the plural of "son"?: how can angels who are "sons of God" be different from Jesus who is the "son of God"?,arent they all sons of God?.

manojin:
I had to open a special account for this. Over the years I spent in growing up in a family where nobody believes in anything written in a book. I had the idea that demons or angels are fake! That there is no such thing.

Many years passed and I had that ideology that religion is nothing. That people are just killing their self on top nothing. Not until last week!

I was at work up until 7:30pm doing some file arrangement for my boss as she promised to grant me the next day off so I had to close late. It was just me and the factory men on night duty that were at work. On finishing the work I stepped out and walked to my car before entering the car, I had a very distant voice calling aloud in a foreign language I did not understand. I thought it was the little hausa children in the area playing around so I ignored.

I entered my car and was driving home. I was hearing the same voice! Saying the same thing! I did not understand it. I almost hit another car because I was going crazy. I parked in a small bar to take a drink and clear my head. On reaching the attendant of the bar I noticed he smiled when he saw me. I asked if he knows me from somewhere and he was like "I have been calling you"

Immediately I froze for about 5 seconds in fear. Because my mind went straight to the voice I was hearing. I asked him what he wanted and he said he had an offer for me that he would make me rich and get me a wife unless I trade in myself and do his works. Immediately I said NO! That I am not interested. My salary at my place of work is quite OK for myself and my lovely wife I need no riches. He did not force me or argue. He said "OK! Your choice".

I went home planning to tell my wife about my encounter only for her to say the same thing to me. Then I realized that whatever spirit or demon that was in the Bar Tender was in my wife. And He/She continued the offer of wealth. He said he/she is rich in his/her town that my case is small. I asked his/her name, he said the name is Haborym. That he is the demon behind 75% of wealth/riches I see with people around me. I was shocked! And I began asking questions:

Nairaland this is not a script or a movie! This is not a dream or a vision one pastor said somewhere.. thus is my real life encounter. My wife is in the hospital now because of this. She suffered a cardiac arrest after the demon left her.

I asked the popular question! IS HEAVEN AND HELL REAL? Can you guess his answer?

He told me that heaven and hell is what we want it to be. He gave me an example of a person who is in love with golf. He said shall the person be righteous and make the big place, he might just be playing that golf for the rest of his life In peace. And he gave another example of a serial killer who kills people saying that shall the person sell his soul for the world, when he comes home, he would be killed for the rest of his life.

I asked a lot of questions and got shocking answers and in the end he made me know that we humans are sheep and we are only following what they want us to follow. There is more to this world. The other planets and many more. He even said it wasn't really Eve that gave Adam the Apple according to bible. He said the opposite. He said that Adam actually collected it from eve and the story was bent to blame the woman. He even said their names were not really Adam and Eve. He also made me know that lucifer was not really cast away because he tried to overthrow God (Christian Myth) he said there was another reason.

He even said that the end of the world is not really one day that a trumpet sound according to Christian myth. He said it's the day the civil war for freedom starts. He said those in the otherside (whom we call demons) are also imprisoned and tortured that when they all break out free that is when it comes to an end that the trumpet that sound is actually the trumpet of war. And where two elephants fight the grass suffers. Humans are the grass in this case. He said although, that it won't be happening anytime soon(human calendar) but very very very very very soon (demon calendar)

To cut the story short... I rejected his offer of riches and he left in peace though my wife who was his vessel was hurt. This past Sunday my wife and I went to a redeem church for prayers. But the effect is still on her. She is in a hospital now recovering.

Demons are real! And they can come in different ways . Some come in visions or dreams and some come physically possessing someone.

I shared my encounter with the redeem church pastor and he was the one who told me the person was a demon. I did not know he was a demon at first. I just don't know how to explain. And the pastor explained why my wife was hurt..he said the demon might have been too big to sit in my wife or her body was not qualifying for him to stay in that long and after leaving she felt the damage. He also made me know that all those money ritualists we see in the movies are real and there is one demon behind it all. Only with different names. The pastor also made me know that all those false gods people worship are just demons that we human beings gave names. And truly man is sheep and all we know is what we are told or what's in the books in the name of faith.

I pray that the grace of God will be with all of us. Amen

[quote author=EVarn post=39319860]I have made these points before,but let me reiterate them,

(1) In the book of Daniel,Michael was referred to as the "great prince of isreal"; however,Isaiah called Jesus{in his prophesy} the "prince of israel".Can Israel have two princes?

(2) Revelation referred to "Michael and his angels",however God is called the "Lord of host".Can the heavenly host have two commanders?

(3) Daniel called Michael "one of the chief princes" and illustrated Michael liberating an angel of God from a deadlock with the "prince of the kingdom of persia"(satan) who had withstood the angel for 21 days.

(4) Jude called Michael "the archangel",meaning; chief(ruler) of angels.However,Jesus was described as being worshipped by angels in the book of Hebrew.

(5) Satan challenged Jesus to throw himself down from a tall mountain "if he was truly the son of God",why would satan doubt the position of christ in the celestial arrangement?

trapQ:
Lmao.... Funny you!!! You really are a hypocrite. I knew you'd mention john the baptist. You're too used to mediocrity. No doubt if peter, elisha, elijah, moses etc were all present today and did signs and wonders, you'll discredit them as well.

I'll just pretend I didn't see the last part of your post. Good day!!!

trapQ:
Of course I know. It is also written, "these signs shall follow those that believe"... You know what signs. Every biblical prophet performed miracles. The devil is a counterfeiter and can also heal. Hence as christians, we need God's spirit for discernment. Dis God tell you he is a fake??

EVarn:
Neither were we told that satan was an angel,yet we deduce through theoretical analysis.
Everything about the celestial world is not written in the bible,but we are meant to unravel the mysteries of the kingdom of God.

Image123:
That Paul understands it doesn't mean everybody does. i thought Peter already said so.
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction. Jesus Himself has to be revealed, else He remains a mystery to the hearer.

Not to mention some doctrine that are sealed/shut up until the end. Like i initially said, no need to be afraid or worried, understanding or knowledge is of little profit in the grand scheme as it were.[

The rapture involves resurrection and is a part of the FIRST resurrection. However, it happens before the events of Revelation 20.

Jesus is Lord, and it is so.

As you can read, Revelations 4 to chapter 19 show saints in Heaven who have being resurrected, different from the souls under the altar who have to wait for chapter 20 before being resurrected.
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Evidently, they are FELLOW, they are THY(John's) BRETHREN, they have the TESTIMONY OF JESUS. You are the one who actually needs to show that this is an "ANGEL" in the first instance.

Yes that's what the Bible says, what do you say.

This appears to be where you miss it. Saints in Heaven are ASLEEP in Jesus as it were. They are in a kind of limbo, like the souls under the altar. Like Lazarus who could barely do much or actively participate, entered into rest. The rapture resurrection gives saints resurrected bodies, it makes them complete, like Jesus, seeing Him as He is, worshipping, forever with Him.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Stephen and James do not partake in the Great Tribulation. The souls partake in it and have to wait till the end of the Tribulation before they receive resurrected bodies.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
God has not appointed us to wrath, we are not in darkness and the day will not overtake us believers. Why? Because we'll be out by then, taken out of the way, before the beast.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

i already did, and every Bible student knows. The coming of the Lord spans events over a thousand years; the millenial reign, the Judgement, the battles, the marriage supper of the Lamb, the rapture. These are not 24hour events or simultaneous happenings. Yet, all over scriptures, these events are described in relation to the coming of the Lord, the Day of the Lord, the Last day etc

Holistic means the whole, complete, total study of the Bible. Not shifting goalposts as you have been doing, claiming that we should stick to Revelations, then quoting other scriptures at will.

Of course, He brings them WITH Him. When? After they have being caught up to meet Him. We will not prevent them which are asleep. You need to understand the ORDER of events. There will be a CATCHING UP first before the armies return WITH HIM.

Again, the rapture happens rapidly, the second coming does not. i cannot open your head and put that in.

The Scripture is not a figment of deluded minds and totally baseless .

i'm sure the Bible did not forget to write all these additions.


Cc: Gombs,Scholar8200,Goshen360,Joagbaje,Ayoku777,Esere826,MutleyLaff ,Shdemidemi,MrPresident1

Image123:
i find daydreaming amusing.

My exact point. The Bible does not call it a second resurrection but a second death.

The first and second are relating one another, not relating the number of resurrections.

All resurrections in the order of Christ's are under the FIRST resurrection

. i gave the example of the Nigerian government earlier. The President's ministers will all form his cabinet. Whatever name they call them, 8th Federal Executive Council or whatever, they are all termed together. Even though they were not screened together or confirmed at the same time. their names were sent to the Senate in batches etc but they are together.
.

Spare me the details, i know what you are talking about already. i was only pulling your legs like you were having issues over a concept(church age) simply because you did not find the exact phrase in your Bible

. i know there is a mass/global resurrection just like i know that we are living in the church age.

And i know there is a Bible and a rapture. The concept is clear, i don't need King James to write it in the English Bible for me to know.

This is the ONLY passage in the whole of Scriptures that refers to a "First resurrection". Obviously, they are related to the SECOND death.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

You keep making reference to a 'second resurrection' that is not directly stated but inferred, yet when others do same, you do not accept.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Apparently, the above verse says nothing about sinners coming to life much later. Even verse 12 does not refer to it as coming to life, though i get your point even when you deliberately refuse to get mine.

The first resurrection is a phase that encompasses all saints' resurrection.

Apparently,One, all saints do not resurrect at once, else they would be no different from dead believers souls in Heaven under the altar, in some kind of limbo. But we see that some saints are actively involved in the activities of Heaven compared to the souls that died in tribulation.

Two, a one time global resurrection alludes that all living believers will partake in the Great Tribulation, making void and useless the promises of the Lord.
Jer 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

i don't remember mentioning anything about 7ages, don't be distracted.

It's in scriptures.

i don't hope to do a Revelations commentary. Anyone with a fair understanding of the book knows that these sayings are true. Revelations is basically divided into three.
Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
The past, the present and the hereafter. The hereafter starts from chapter4v1 and that begins with a COME UP HITHER which is in tune/consonance with being caught up to meet the Lord in the air as seen in Thessalonians.
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter.

i gave around thirty lines straight reply including scripture passageS. It is not my fault that you decided to pick a phrase and say what you like. Revelations 4v1 is the rapture time and the rapture occurs before the Beast.

It's clear in Revelations as shown already. It is also clear in Thessalonians.
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Maybe we can also conclude on the same vein that anything after ALL EYES will see Him is not the coming. The event in which "ALL EYES will see Him"is a very small and short part of Christ's second coming.

The book of Revelation is SYMBOLIZED, it says so itself.
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
He used signs/symbols. Anyone who has read Revelations knows this, i supposed.

Like i've said before, the Resurrection is not a one time event

Like you agree for instance, there is a all different resurrection for sinners that seems to occur about 1000years AFTER what is termed the first resurrection.

Otherwise, one can easily think that all resurrection will occur at once.

That is why a holistic view of all Scripture is important in doctrine, so that you don't just run meaninglessly with one verse or one book, when the whole Scripture has been given and nothing to be taken away or added again

Resurrection is not a mystery, it is more like you said "an important event that captivated the apostles and which Jesus spent a better part of his public and private ministry teaching". What however is a mystery is what we call the Rapture; the sudden catching away of saints

1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


This is what will happen when the "trump of God" will sound. Else, there will be no point referring to the duration(In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye).

I've said it before and i say it again, that the Coming of the Lord Jesus is a long event spanning centuries. Everything that happens during that period is at the coming of the Lord.

. In fact, even the disciples did not know and understand that there will be a Second Coming. As there were many events during Christ's first coming(if we can call it that), much more, there will be many events during the Lord's second coming. One of such will be the rapture in which will be a resurrection.

And just like we are saved and chosen in Him from the foundation of the world, He was slain from the foundation of the world, and the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world. So, our resurrection is reckoned in Scriptures. The rapture, the tribulation, the rewards, the marriage supper of the Lamb, the defeat of satan and of death, the millenial reign, the second death are all at the Coming of the Lord. However, they are not all events that happen in 24hours.

WinsomeX:
vooks, thank you for tagging me here. I just completed the first chapter. Every Christian should read this.

trapQ:
Good question... I want you to be rational about certain issues, especially those concerning T.B Joshua. If an aethiest said all these I'd understand, but as christians , we shouldn't be divided because we're one body.

You don't need to like T.B J, GOD healed my dad's friend of a heart disease through him. you musnt believe, but what reason have I to lie? That people lost their lives under his watch doesn't translate to him killing them. People die from stampedes at crusades frequently. He teaches the true word of GOD, is humble, highly philantropic.

And do you know he doesn't even ask people to come to his church? He encourages people to find and attend living churches around them.

EVarn:
what are you sniffing?
who told you Michael wasnt Jesus?

ifeness:
A god that gets away with money laundering. I'm sure they will transfer it back into his private account.

trapQ:
Says the black ignoramus.

4C2215131:
Last time I checked rearing Snails was profitable business.

trapQ:
When I saw the topic and saw your handle, I expected this.

PS: you're not for Christ because you're already judging. If you judge people now, who will judge you on the last day? Change your ways

EVarn:
Michael isnt an angel,he was referred to as an "arch-angel",the word 'arch' means leader or ruler or chief.
If Michael was referred to as the "ruler(chief) of angels",then wouldnt all angels worship him as was written in Hebrews 1:6?.
Again,you tend to disregard the old testament accounts of the identity of Michael.

Adanna28:
Does it give mention to particular churches that fringe beyond what tolerant??

trapQ:
No T.B Joshua bashing today?? Ok

Jeromejnr:
OP...what is the point of the last sentence?

Are you for him or against?

Why are Christians being attracted to nontraditional groups? In addition to the reasons just cited — greater freedom in worship, acceptance, fellowship, and a sense of family — there is the appeal and excitement of experience, the desire for something new, something more,

Abusive churches are not, for the most part, promoting rank heresy. But their human leaders seem ever willing to make pronouncements in the name of God, thus "mistaking what God is saying in Scripture for their own particular brand of interpretation of Scripture." 10 This sets the stage for the possibility of outright heresy being introduced, as well as the kind of abusive practices we have discussed.

Pastoral abuse can be spotted quite easily, at least in its advanced stages. Abusive religion substitutes human power for true freedom in Christ. Unquestioning obedience and blind loyalty are its hallmarks. Leaders who practice spiritual abuse exceed the bounds of legitimate authority and "lord it over the flock," often intruding into the personal lives of members. God's will is something that they determine for you rather than something you individually seek to know. Abusive leaders are self-centered and adversarial rather than reconciling and restorative.

As we have seen, another sign of impending trouble in a church is an obsession with discipline and excommunication. Beware of churches that warn of certain doom if you leave their "covering," or if you "break covenant." Once banished from the group, little compassion is shown the wayward one. And overwhelming majority of the ex-members I have interviewed expressed the opinion that abusive leaders are cold, almost cruel, in their treatment of people who leave — whether that departure was voluntary or involuntary. Almost without exception they report that the leadership made no attempt at reconciliation and made no effort to heal the wounds inflicted. Instead, defectors are held up to the congregation as warnings to potential "sowers of discord."

It is my opinion, based on extensive research and informal observation, that authoritarian leaders are ecclesiastical loners. That is, they do not function well or willingly in the context of systematic checks and balances. They are fiercely independent and refuse to be part of a structure of accountability. To put it crudely, they operate a one-man (or one-woman) spiritual show. And God help the person who gets in the way or makes waves. Yes, sometimes they will point to a board of elders or its equivalent, but more likely than not, this turns out to be a faithful inner circle of clones that implicitly accepts all that the leader sets forth.

Another quality that can lead to abusive behavior in a church is the tendency toward isolationism, a conscious effort to limit input from outside the church — in other words, information control. Beware of the church where outside speakers are consistently denied access to the pulpit, and where other Christian churches are regularly denounced, belittled, or ridiculed. Competing authority figures, whether from within or without the church walls, are rarely welcomed in abusive churches. No one can measure up to their exalted standards. In the words of Marie Kolasinski (see chapter 6), "Ninety-nine percent of the people who profess to be Christians are really enemies of the cross."

The discerning Christian must also beware of the trap of legalism. We have seen numerous examples throughout this book of how life-style rigidity and the keeping of a set of rules can stifle spiritual liberty and encourage abuse. Preoccupation with keeping Christian rules enhances guilt feelings in members, and it acts as an effective control mechanism for power abusers. "Legalism is never corrective church discipline. For legalism pulls us away from following Christ toward another gospel, another gospel that says the cross is not enough."8

A key element of discernment, then, is the recognition that potentially abusive churches foster an unhealthy form of dependency, spiritually and otherwise, by focusing on themes of submission and obedience to those in authority. They create the impression that people just aren't going to find their way through life's maze without a lot of firm directives from those at the top. They promote what MacDonald calls a form of "learned helplessness."

As Bruce indicated, the membership of authoritarian churches is frequently comprised of young, spiritually immature Christians. This kind of church is successful because it is meeting basic human needs — the need to belong, the need to be affirmed, to be accepted, and to be part of a family. It is not unusual for the leaders to assume the role of surrogate parents, especially for those young adults who come from dysfunctional-family backgrounds.