₦airaland Forum

Kukutente23:
Is RMAFC existing for only federal revenues or for federally collected revenue?
Check their act and get educated properly
All revenue collected for the federation is supposed to be under the purview of RMAFC. The federal govt also has a proportion of VAT that belongs to it. That's the VAT on imports and FCT.

You are always referring me to RMAFC act like it is an authority, I have told you several times that the role of RMAFC is advisory.

The commission can't dictate to the executive and legislative arm of government. RMAFC autonomy is regarding the process of reaching its conclusion which are recommended to the executive government of Nigeria as an advice.

It's recommendations are not binding on the executive government, it's recommendations are at best advices. That is all to it.

You can cry about it till tomorrow but that is the reality.

Let me make it clear to you: this train of the Tax Reform Bills can't be stopped, it can only be delayed for a short while.

The executive government will have it's way on the Tax Reforms with or without the support of the few northern state actors that are working against it. Ultimately, it is in the interest of every state in Nigeria.

Your attempt to use RMAFC has failed already, let's see you come up with another gimmick.

We shall see.

Kukutente23:
What is here that makes sense if I may ask you. A tax that is collected by the FG and shared by the FG is suddenly not under the body statutorily empowered to share allocation. Make it make sense. Where is it in the constitution that FG should collect VAT in the first place? Taiwo is being clever by half.

Does RMAFC involve in the sharing of stamp duty tax?

Originally, VAT is supposed to be under the purview of the states. The reason it is left for the Federal government to collect and share to states is to prevent multiple tax in the first place so it is reasonable to conclude that RMAFC can't be involved in VAT sharing.

I think I concur with that argument

Kukutente23:
Where is it in the press release that he is answerable to the executive.

Go and read the RMAFC Act and stop blowing ignorant air.

Are you the spokesman for RMAFC now or were they sleeping on a bicycle when they wrote their memorandum to the senate

There's nothing like boss. I already showed you that RMAFC is an autonomous institution. You are still working tirelessly to push them under control of the FG. You are beginning to sound like an agbadorian to me. They are the ones that insist on being wrong even in the face of superior facts.

Another thread that might interest you:

https://www.nairaland.com/8290652/tax-reforms-vat-not-under

We are all learning

Kukutente23:
Where is it in the press release that he is answerable to the executive.

Go and read the RMAFC Act and stop blowing ignorant air.

Are you the spokesman for RMAFC now or were they sleeping on a bicycle when they wrote their memorandum to the senate

There's nothing like boss. I already showed you that RMAFC is an autonomous institution. You are still working tirelessly to push them under control of the FG. You are beginning to sound like an agbadorian to me. They are the ones that insist on being wrong even in the face of superior facts.

We shall see who the boss is!

Okay, RMAFC is an autonomous institution that advices the Federal Executive Government. It is not autonomous in isolation otherwise it's functions can't be achieved.

Call me whatever, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Let me rest since there is no more basis for this argument anymore

Kukutente23:
Did he do a press conference when he opposed the VAT component in the bill? Have you ever heard the word leaked before? RMAFC submitted a memo detailing their take on the tax bills. The memo was leaked by some interested party and now you are saying the chairman cleared the air. Did he put anything in the air that needs clearing?

That press briefing is called damage control. Ever heard of it. He's doing that to assuage bloody agbadorians who are already calling for his head for giving a professional and confidential take on a critical matter. That is agbadorians for you. No brain, just noise.

The chairman of RMAFC is simply trying to inform you people that he is answerable to the Federal Executive Government.

His submissions are advisory through recommendations and justifications and he has submitted that to the executive government.

RMAFC is in agreement with the FG on the Tax Reform Bills and will see it through.

RMAFC has made it's input and is still making it's input on the bills as it affects Revenue Allocation.

Ultimately, don't pitch RMAFC against it's boss. They are working together.

EXPRESSSMAN:
You , explain how it favours every states.
He wants to make 60% derivation, when the headquarters of most of the companies paying VAT are in Lagos, Rivers, Ogun and Oyo.
So if these 4 States take 60% of the VAT proceed , what is left for the other 32 states to share. So how does it favour them. Meanwhile, the products of these companies are consumed in all the states. These are the bone of contention.
So south west are supporting it because Lagos, Ogun and Oyo states are the biggest beneficiary forgetting that Niger Delta states can as well ask for 60% derivation from Oil proceeds as well.
How did Tinubu arrive at 60% with consulting the States and even RMAFC.
This is the bad governance we are talking about.

60% derivation of the total VAT generated from each state to the state where it is generated. Is that not beneficial to each of the states?

This is not bad governance in my view

Kukutente23:
There's nothing like tribal bigot. Agbados are not limited to a particular tribe. They are the asinine sycophants of Tinubu who believes anything that comes from him must be swallowed hook, line and sinker

They joined him to oppose subsidy removal in 2012 and today they are hailing him for reforms that include subsidy removal. Is that not sycophancy?

RMAFC raised a constitutional argument and instead of them to look at it from that prism, they have reduced it to the tribe of the chairman as if the chairman will unilaterally arrive at the position without the concurrence of other members.

But the chairman of RMAFC just cleared the air. He said he is in support of the tax reform bills. He said there was a misinformation and the news that RMAFC was against it is fake.

He even did a press briefing to that effect.

Let us leave it at that and not begging to denigrate others or blame Agbadorians - whatever that means

Kukutente23:
Go and read and stop arguing blindly. RMAFC has advisory aspect as well as executing powers as well

You are just hiding under advise to make it look like they are relevant in revenue allocation when their statutory function is that particular allocation and derivation issue

What is there about the press release? Is it not to save face since agbadorians started attacking the agency for raising a constitutional question. Agbados are very rabid humans who do not apply commonsense in their approach to national issues. All they know is sycophancy

Now you are being a tribal biggot. I thought we were having a constructive argument?

I don't want to descend to that low and don't drag me into it.

EXPRESSSMAN:
Don't mind them. Tinubu keeps destroying the country with every step he took and some ignorant folks keep supporting him.

Please read:

https://rmafc.gov.ng/2024/12/press-release-rmafc-not-opposed-to-president-tinubus-tax-reform/

The subject of this discuss was a misinformation after all.

Kukutente23:
You type ignorantly this man. This is section 7 of the RMAFC act spelling out that it is an independent and autonomous body just like the CBN act. It's obvious you are ignorant that RMAFC has its own Act.



If you know anything about our governance system, you will know that any body listed in section 153 is an autonomous body. That is the idea behind s153 but I still had to go and copy the RMAFC act for you to cure your befuddling ignorance.

Go and read up the RMAFC act and the relevant sections of the constitution before you come here blowing hot air.

Okay, I will read the RMAFC act to again to clear my doubts. It is a unique information for me.

However, I still strongly opine that RMAFC functions are advisory.

This may also interest you:

https://rmafc.gov.ng/2024/12/press-release-rmafc-not-opposed-to-president-tinubus-tax-reform/

A visit to the website of the commission made me see the press release and when I read it, I realized that the basis for the argument we have been having all the while was unfounded because there was a deliberate misinformation. RMAFC was never against the proposed Tax Reform Bills.

Kukutente23:
You are ignorant this man

What the hell is the meaning of committee of appointed persons not elected. Is CBN gov and his MPC elected? What about INEC chairman and his commissioners? Are they elected?

Oya show from the constitution where CBN is stated to be autonomous. RMAFC is listed under s153 as one of the statutory federal bodies with distinct functions which makes it autonomous. For example, it can decide to reduce the salary of the President and it is the only body with the power to determine the revenue sharing formula with approval from the President and NASS just as its chairman just pointed out. It is there in its enabling Act as well as the 3rd schedule Part 1 of the constitution

See the nonsense you are saying. Go and read the CBN Act. The CBN cannot change the currency without getting approval from the President. It is clearly written so in CBN enabling Act. Even the naira management policy must be approved by the President. Go and read the CBN Act.

Try to be open to learning when the opportunity arises. CBN Act and INEC Act are available on public space, in fact online. Search it on google and download to read.

You will see that the acts indicated that CBN and INEC are independent and autonomous organizations of Government.

Unlike your revered RMAFC. I still can't find autonomy in the part of the Constitution that empowered RMAFC. Can you show me?

Are you the one implying the autonomy for RMAFC; interpreting the Constitution wrongly. That is a subject for determination on court if you can prove beyond reasonable doubt yo the court but I know you will lose the case on court.

Again, I will correct you, RMAFC function is advisory with recommendations and justifications. RMAFC position is not order or law or mandatory on the Government of Nigeria.

Is there anything we will not see from these antagonists?

Kukutente23:
Keep quiet and stop writing rubbish

Can CBN change the country's currency without Presidential approval? Does CBN autonomously decide to float or defend the naira without Presidential approval?

You think it is only the revenue allocation that is the work of RMAFC? Who fixes the salaries of all political office holders including the President? Is it not the same RMAFC? And for your info, RMAFC is a commission not a committee.

RMAFC is an autonomous body which works with even states and LGs. Check section 153 of the Constitution

FG and NASS cannot unilaterally change revenue allocation framework. Go and get yourself properly educated instead of blowing ignorant hot air.

You are just typing up and down out of ignorance

RMAFC is a commission driven by a committee of appointed persons not elected persons.

RMAFC is not autonomous - show or quote the Constitution that says it is autonomous.

CBN consulting with the Federal Government on change of currency notes, floating or defending the naira does not take away CBNs autonomy on matters of Monetary policy. The consultation is primarily a courtesy and it is to ensure that the monetary and fiscal policies of Nigeria are synchronized to compliment each other and achieve best possible results in the interest of Nigeria. CBN autonomy is derived from the act that established it. Can you show me the word autonomy in the Constitution or act that established RMAFC?

Read more brother, I am waiting to hear your next line of argument

shortIGBOman:
What is tribal in the North rejecting a bill that is meant to favour only Lagos and Tinubu? You are just pained that the North has killed Tinubu's tax bill.

So the bill does not favor Enugu, Anambra, Imo, Ebonyi and others?

It does not favor Kano, Bauchi, Kaduna, Nassarawa, Kogi, Edo, Delta, Rivers, Always Ibom and other?

It does not favor every state and Abuja in Nigeria?

Tell what you even know about the Tax Reform Bills. I can bet you don't know anything about it other than what you have heard on social media and your hatred for Yorubas and particularly the Tinubu

shortIGBOman:
The Tinubu version is dead. The one that will later be approved is the version with contents that is not anti-North. Tinubu's original tax bill is dead. Anyhow it is, the North will prevail.

You have a serious Tribal Bigotry problem. Obviously, you are still fixated with the election that produced the president when a lot of us have moved on. You can keep lamenting and complaining, I don't care.

I have no time for you - ShortIgboMan

Kukutente23:
You're being purely sentimental now whereas you acted as if you're arguing from the court of law.

Firstly, the FEC does not have the power to determine allocation since it's an interested party. RMAFC acts as an autonomous body in that regard.

You reject RMAFC's constitutionally given power but you don't realise that CBN has been raising interest rates on loans taken in Nigeria including govt loans without recourse to FEC.

To apply your logic, CBN that's selected but not elected is dictating to the Executive how much to pay as interest on loans taken in the same Nigeria the executive is elected to administer?

Who is the joke now

Your argument is so ridiculous. CBN is an autonomous organization. CBN is not a committee; it is not under the direct control of the federal government with respect to monetary policy administration in Nigeria. Federal Government has the powers over fiscal policy. Go and read the CBN act.

You can't compare CBN with RMAFC. RMAFC is a committee that reports to the Federal Government and it's responsibility is primarily advisory. CBN is an executing body with autonomy as it concerns monetary policy.

What is sentimental about these argument that I presented?

Federal Executive Council and, National Assembly through legislative laws, can determine the allocation to Federal, State and Local Government based on lawful and approved template and ratio.

The role of RMAFC is advisory. RMAFC is not autonomous - please prove that I am wrong with facts and the law.

Don't keep telling me what you think without verifiable facts

shortIGBOman:
Either Igbo leaders support the North on this bill or not. The North alone can kill the bill. The North has succeeded in suspended the bill, even after it passed the second reading in the Senate. Northerners in House of Reps didn't even allow the bill to be deliberated upon.


The North alone na ONE MAN MOPOL for this Country

You think the bill is dead?

You will still be on nairaland when it is passed into law.

Uncletony:
Exactly the way it is! Thanks for reminding us how dysfunctional and fake the country can get yet again.

You think the bill is dead?

You will still be on nairaland when it is passed into law.

HarunaWest:
Go and read all the nine pages before we begin to argue. The sensational ones were posted and everyone is already reacting to it. What the RMAFC did was to draw the governments ear and give advice on the best way to go. We keep allowing politicians to intefere into the affairs of our institutions. Look how docile and comical INEC has become. What the RMAFC reminded the executive was that some it is constitutionally empowered in regards revenue mobilization and fiscal policies and enactment. They should be carried along thats all.

Constitutionally empowered to do what?

Tell us what RMAFC is empowered to do by the Constitution?

Is it other than advisory? Advisory to who? Who does RMAFC report to by the Constitution?

Is RMAFC an executive body?

Carried along like a God or the boss or what?

Answer the question and stop deflecting

Kukutente23:
You're so far offpoint. What does the constitution mandate the president to do upon receiving the advice and who is giving the advice in this scenario now? What that section is detailing is the procedure for allocation of federally collected revenue. The revenue will be shared based on the advice from RMAFC which the president is to table before NASS for consideration. Even if the president decides to reject the advice, that's where it ends and not that another agency will bring its own advice. The advice comes BEFORE the bill can be tabled before NASS. That's what the section is saying

Hmmm.

You are very funny. So you mean:
the RMAFC is the only one that can initiate a change of the Revenue Sharing Formula?

The RMAFC is superior to the executive federal government?

The committee comprising people selected but not elected to govern the affairs of Nigeria will dictate to the executive and legislative arm of government elected to administer the affairs of Nigeria?

You are such a joke.

Kukutente23:
You're simply ignorant. Go back to 162(2). These are the allocation principles that take precedence according to that section.
population,
equality of States,
internal revenue generation,
land mass,
terrain
population density.
From the above, you can't have 60% derivation as that will surely conflict with this section as well. Derivation is not listed as part of the major parameters.
Go and get properly educated man.
Good day

A semi educated person calling an educated person out to get proper education.

Hmmmm. Utterly ridiculous.

I got no time for you

Kukutente23:
You're the ignorant one
It is clearly spelt or in the constitution that any bill inconsistent with the constitution is null and void to the extent of the inconsistency. RMAFC's observation is very correct. You guys act like sycophants instead of reading to understand your country and its laws

Yea

If that is true then many existing bills (laws) should not exist or be "null and void" simply because they have one or few items at variance or in conflict with the Constitution.

You are funny. If you are a lawyer, then I wonder what your views will be.

Anyway, na you sabi. Enjoy your day, I have other things to do.

Kukutente23:
Read section 162 clearly without bias to see what RMAFC does. You're just blowing air out of ignorance

I read the section 162 especially the part you made the letters bold and the primary observation that I can see there is that the role of RMAFC is advisory.

To the best of my knowledge, Advise is not mandatory on the person advised especially when you are advising your boss - in this case,
RMAFC reports to the Executive Federal Government of Nigeria so that is the boss in the relationship between RMAFC and the Federal Government.

Is that contrary to what I have been saying earlier?

Kukutente23:
You wrote wrong
Any bill that's inconsistent with the constitution is null and void.
Even if it was passed unanimously by birth houses. Don't worry about what I think of the bill
We're discussing RMAFC's observation not mine

Seeing your statement in bold letters, I can conclude that you know nothing about laws and how laws are operated.

Do you even know the role of the judiciary when there are conflicting items in the law? I guess you don't and the most ridiculous assessment of you is that you seem not to care to know.

Anyway, that is your challenge, not mine.

Have a great day layman.

Ahmading:
People should read and comprehend before committing. What the RMAFC are saying is :1-they are created and assigned task by the constitution. 2-,And the act of Parliament cannot surpass the constitution. 3- For the Vat reform to be legal, the constitution needed to be amended. Simple.
We should stop looking at things through our sentiment be it region, tribe or religion. We talk of building systems that works not people. Thats the only way the county will be great.

Oga, RMAFC was created by the Constitution of Nigeria - Yes. What are the functions and mandate of RMAFC? Maybe you should read about that, the Constitution of Nigeria is a public document so avail yourself one to read.

The proposed bill, if passed into law, does not supersede the Constitution - Yes.

In case of contradictions, the Constitution's position on the item of contradictions takes pre-eminence - Yes.

So RMAFC is just trying to create a confussion that does not exist. RMAFC reports to the Federal Executive Government of Nigeria and should stick to it's responsibilities and stop trying to order or control or command its boss especially because it's duty and mandate is ultimately advisory based on empirical and verifiable recommendations and justifications as a result of research and studies. RMAFC is not an executing body or law.

Sheuns:
Nigeria is not Yoruba nation or Lagos. Where is your regional government bill you all were singing to high evens about?

You are simply a tribal biggot!

There is no point having a reasonable conversation with you because your deep hate for the Yoruba people has beclouded and eroded your sense of judgement so much that you are not sane anymore.

You are lost already, kindly find yourself first before discussing the challenges of Nigeria.

Kukutente23:
And what happens if a bill conflicts with the constitution? Is it not as dead as a dodo?
Just as you have issues, so do others. There's no analysis or simulation you've done to establish that the bill so bring out the best in states other than the parasite argument which is one-sided at best

Did you read what I wrote? You have the same problem that most people have with those Tax Reform Bills - you don't read and study documents.

Go back to read it so you can see my position and the position of the law on cases where any bill is in contradiction with the Constitution of Nigeria. Moreover, it does not nullify the bill as far as it has become law.

Your arguments against the bills are not constructive, unfounded and just pessimistic.

Let me hear you present an empirical and substantial argument against the bill and then we can have a good discuss on it.

Atuero:
Aren't they empowered by the constitution to oversee that function? The man is speaking for his office not as a person.... at least, as they are empowered by the Government to do so, they should at least be consulted and carried along in the formation of the Bill.

That the executive arm of government appoints the judges doesn't make them above the ruling of the Judiciary if found guilty

The man probably doesn't understand certain functions of his office so he is attributing some powers to RMAFC that does not exist.

RMAFC does not determine the sharing percentages or review of the sharing ratio. RMAFC is simply a committee that can recommend reviews and suggestions on Revenue Mobilization to the executive Federal Government based on verifiable and empirical study and research.

The powers to review or change or enact bill or laws is with the National Assembly. The executive federal government can sponsor or push such or any bill to the National Assembly without recourse to the RMAFC.

The onus is on everyone, including RMAFC, who feels the need to impact the bill or make input on the bill to come to the national assembly on the date of the public discourse on the bill and make constructive contributions to ultimately arrive at the best bill to solve the challenge that must have informed the bill.

Simple.

Kukutente23:
Well.... that's another angle to the debate that might just be the death knell for the VAT debate

Oga, RMAFC doesn't make bill. It is a committee and at best constituted by the executive federal government of Nigeria.

A bill is a law once passed. A number of bills (laws) are in existence and sometimes they contradict each other but the ultimate law in Nigeria is the Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria hence in such cases, the position of the Constitution takes pre-eminence.

The committee can join in the public debate on the bill on the floor of the National Assembly to make input on the bill but that committee can't effectively stand down the bill. RMAFC contributions can be considered in enacting the bill but RMAFC can't stop the bill.

Honestly, the only issue I have with the bill is the plan to increase VAT to 10% and ultimately 15% by 2030. If that is removed and the VAT is kept at the current 7.5% into the forseable future, I strongly think that the bill is equitable, just and fair enough and it will bring out the best in the states.

That is a fact.

aviara:
I keep imagining what south west would have been pushing for if the oil in the Niger delta was all domiciled in any of the south west states.

13% derivation given to oil producing states is so little yet Niger delta is not clamouring for more greedy south west politicians only thinking about how they can corner everything to themselves.

How is the proposed Tax Bills translating into Southwest politicians greed.

Doesn't the proposal favor every state?

Can you explain how it does not favor every state and Local Government?

Sheuns:
This bill won’t fly. Modifications must be made. Nigeria is too big to be run by one man.

Where’s the regional government bill they were screaming some months ago?

You must carry everyone along else your work no go show.

In your words:"this bill will not fly"; *modifications must be made... "

So when modifications are made, the bill can be passed. Does that mean the bill flew?

Dapromzy333:
https://news360ng.com/gbv-what-i-told-my-daughters-to-do-if-thier-husbands-slap-them-emir-sanusi-ii/

Well, can you imagine that statment from a genuine father?

I am not an advocate of domestic violence but gor the slapped lady to respond physically could be regretful and fatal, at worst

How would Sanusi reconcile that development, God forbid.

Sometimes, I understand why there is an interest to dethrone him as Emir. He can be irrational and careless with talks sometimes.