₦airaland Forum

Immorttal:
My question still is: if everything was created including varied life forms and the universe itself, and was supposedly created by God, then Who created God

MuttleyLaff:
We agree. Hallelujah!

We agree again. It's another one

Hang on, but is that underlined bold son" or "Son"?
Please clarify which it is

Please don't try that line here
Check back on this thread, you will find me agreeing with you, that the Father sent Jesus
and also agreed that Jesus didn't send Himself, so where is all this making Jesus a liar coming from.

If you back check, you'll read, that God sent Himself to earth. He accomplished that by being a human being in the person of Jesus.
For the work at hand, there is no other way or other means. Protocols needed to be followed and adhered to, that's part of why

Now, tell, is Jesus, God manifested in flesh or not?

I don't find you becoming annoying
but I am finding you becoming hard work

MuttleyLaff:
Chief! omi eko, eko ni nau
You say potato, I say potahto,
you say tomato, I say tomahto!
The same thing is being referred to using different pronouncing words.

Yeshua HaMashiach, is the same as, Jesus Christ, same Jesu Kristi etcetera,
just as, YHWH, Jehovah or Yahweh and LORD, which Jews use instead of actually uttering and/or directly writing God's real name, are all the same thing.
Jews use LORD instead because they believe God's name is too holy for them to plainly utter or outrightly write

Chief, please go and rest. Abeggy jor, no bi by force nau.

Let me use your "because" qualifier, so you'll see the futility of your statement

We have been directly given the right by God to be addressed as "God" BECAUSE we are begotten sons of all the creature of God.

Do you now, see, how incorrect the above paragraph turns out, using your reasoning and the "because" qualifier?

Jesus is the first born of the begotten.
There are others born again (i.e. born from above)

Jesus is God because He is God, period.
It has nothing to do with that "because" of yours

You've misunderstood the Godhood
and not knowingly twisting or misinterpreting it

MuttleyLaff:
Chief! omi eko, eko ni nau
You say potato, I say potahto,
you say tomato, I say tomahto!
The same thing is being referred to using different pronouncing words.

Yeshua HaMashiach, is the same as, Jesus Christ, same Jesu Kristi etcetera,
just as, YHWH, Jehovah or Yahweh and LORD, which Jews use instead of actually uttering and/or directly writing God's real name, are all the same thing.
Jews use LORD instead because they believe God's name is too holy for them to plainly utter or outrightly write

Chief, please go and rest. Abeggy jor, no bi by force nau.

Let me use your "because" qualifier, so you'll see the futility of your statement

We have been directly given the right by God to be addressed as "God" BECAUSE we are begotten sons of all the creature of God.

Do you now, see, how incorrect the above paragraph turns out, using your reasoning and the "because" qualifier?

Jesus is the first born of the begotten.
There are others born again (i.e. born from above)

Jesus is God because He is God, period.
It has nothing to do with that "because" of yours

You've misunderstood the Godhood
and not knowingly twisting or misinterpreting it

MuttleyLaff:
Chief! omi eko, eko ni nau
You say potato, I say potahto,
you say tomato, I say tomahto!
The same thing is being referred to using different pronouncing words.

Yeshua HaMashiach, is the same as, Jesus Christ, same Jesu Kristi etcetera,
just as, YHWH, Jehovah or Yahweh and LORD, which Jews use instead of actually uttering and/or directly writing God's real name, are all the same thing.
Jews use LORD instead because they believe God's name is too holy for them to plainly utter or outrightly write

Chief, please go and rest. Abeggy jor, no bi by force nau.

Let me use your "because" qualifier, so you'll see the futility of your statement

We have been directly given the right by God to be addressed as "God" BECAUSE we are begotten sons of all the creature of God.

Do you now, see, how absurd the above paragraph sounds and looks, using your reasoning and the qualifier?

Jesus is the first born of the begotten.
There are others born again (i.e. born from above)

Jesus is God because He is God, period.
It has nothing to do with that "because" of yours

You've misunderstood the Godhood
and not knowingly twisting or misinterpreting it

MuttleyLaff:
Consult together, argue your case.
Get together and decide what to say.
Who made these things known so long ago?
What idol ever told you they would happen? Was it not I, Yahweh?
For there is no other God
but me, a righteous God and Savior.
There is none but me."
- Isaiah 45:21

But about the Son, He says,
"Your throne, O God,
will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom
- Hebrews 1:8

Just FYIs, that dont require nor demand responses

MuttleyLaff:
You can be painted with this proverbial twisting brush too


"I, I am Yahweh,
and there is no other Savior but Me"
- Isaiah 43

We've both played out parts and done our little bits

I am yet to read anywhere in the Bible that someone's salvation is in jeopardy, if such, doesn't believe that Jesus is God, vice versa.
Or doesn't believe, Yahweh is Saviour, Whom Jesus is.

So regardless of the stances, we still both safe and saved.
Excuse the pun.

Have a fabulous day
and a blessed week too, as it rolls out
Thanks for your time

MuttleyLaff:
They are necessary questions, all leading, to a reality check(s)
You're aware of this, that's why you aren't comfortable giving answers to them

SMH. My brother, if you had answered each & everyone of all those questions you ducked, the occasion for asking this question wouldn't have arisen or happened.
"Aye question yi, kokan tie ni yo ni"

The least I can do for now, to answer your question, is to offer that, you try this to get some leverage:
What is the fruit of the Spirit?
What is the fruit of the Spirit's numeric value?

Now the answer to:
"how come Jesus and God have a separate throne as in Rev 3" is FLAVOUR

There is, only one throne,
there is only one Being
where Jesus is the manifest in human being flesh, of this Invisible Being called God
but you'll have the ability to perceive & relish the achievement Jesus accomplished, this happens, by enjoying & basking in the power, in Jesus' company, the same way He did, in the company of the Father's, upon completion of His assigned work

Bottom line, there is one throne,
but it's a flavoured throne

Throne is a word signifying Regal Influence or Royal Power.

Why aren't you questioning Revelation 3:12 too?
Or is because you are believing you'll be made a literal pillar in the temple of God?

MuttleyLaff:
This and its likes are Messianic Psalms.
They are prophetic pronouncements about Jesus etcetera given under the inspiration of the Spirit.
Read further below, where I touched a bit on begot

OK then, if you put it that way
but I seriously would appreciate, if you kindly respond to the below questions, you forgot to answer:

1/ What is God's name?
2/ What is the name of the Father?
3/ Without necessarily talking of trinity, how many to your knowledge are called God?
5/ Has Jesus, to His face, ever directly been addressed as God
or has Jesus, to His face, ever directly been called God?

"Was God a Father before He begot Jesus?" was my question,
and not just "What God a Father?"

You grab? God, was just being God.
God, for the first time and not before that, became a Father, after manifesting Himself in flesh, as Jesus
(i.e. God introduced Himself, on that day, by means of "the Holy Ghost falling on to Mary insemination" phenomenon)

Of course, it is clear to me,
It's a pity, I can't vouch the same for you though. Sorry.

What is my belief?
What is the belief?
What is the belief you don't agree with and/or can't accept?

MuttleyLaff:
Yeepa! O gbe le ooo
What is "... He was no longer a servant or minister" all about, what does that mean?
Have you a biblical reference or backing for justifying making that remark?

What about the other questions?
You think I'll forget them, or let them slide, so you can get off lightly?
You make laugh....

Help yourself further first.
At this juncture, you need help more than anyone else

You're now shifting goal post to thrones now, abi?
It's OK, nothing spoilt
but how many times do you want me to acknowledge all these, hmm?

Was God a Father before He begot Jesus?
How or with what was Mary impregnated?

MuttleyLaff:
Are you finding everything overwhelming?
Is that why you're asking for a calming down?

SMH, it is interpretation you perceive in all what's submitted?
If that perception makes you feel better, so be it.

I guess the questions are too hot for you to handle, hence why can't consider them, talkless touch

Why don't you stop whining, man up, take the questions face up and answer them one after the other, eh?

You haven't seen meh-meh yet

SMH, if you aren't comfortable with Jesus getting addressed as God, the Son, then no problem, but there isn't anything wrong or incorrect in Jesus saying the Father sent Him, and that nor He sent Himself
because technically it is true that Jesus didn't send Himself. It is God who sent Jesus.
God came to earth in a human form via Jesus.
Jesus is God, manifested in flesh.

SMH. What and how do you mean interpreting the Bible?

You wrote:
"you notice how many times Jesus referred to God and note also he will have a new name"
and I, to some length, responded along with, asking a few questions
but what you can muster back is a whinging and feeble response of "... why are you interpreting..."

MuttleyLaff:
On the contrary, it is you that is blind to the truth

Since you have a firmly closed mind
it will be only by the sheer grace of God and power of the Holy Spirit you will notice the light to ever see the truth of this matter

When I earlier asked you, to define the noun; God, I bet you thought, I didn't have a valid reason for making the request.

OK now, why dont you put, your answered definition of God, into everywhere in Revelation 3:12 where God is mentioned, instead of reading or seeing God, to see the inadequacy of the definition of God you gave.

Here are a few more questions, but please don't evade answering them, like you've been doing to almost all previous ones.
I almost literally had to twist your arm behind your back before you involuntarily answered one of them

1/ What is God's name?
2/ What is the name of the Father?
3/ Without necessarily talking of trinity, how many to your knowledge are called God?
4/ Do you accept, agree and believe that Jesus is God?
5/ Has Jesus, to His face, ever directly been addressed as God
or has He to His face, ever directly been called God?

Who else were you expecting Jesus to refer to?
Were you expecting Him to refer to Amadioha, or to Sango, or to Obatala?

What else were you expecting Jesus to refer to?
Were you expecting Jesus to refer to alcohol, or to drugs or to His stomach?

Why are you surprised to notice Jesus referring to God?
I am not surprised because it makes perfect sense that Jesus refers to God

Please review and take a long time to thoroughly think over your definition and understanding of the noun; God

What's wrong in God having a new name?

Are you surprised that God will be giving Himself a new name?

Is God not allowed or permitted to give Himself a new name ni?
Afterall, there will be a new heaven, a new Jerusalem, a new earth, new bodies.

It's called what's in vogue bro.
Let God treat Himself too, by calling Himself by a new name
He deserves the new name because He worked hard for it

MuttleyLaff:
There you are, so why are throwing up hands, insisting that God isnt Jesus then?
Why does it sound strange to you, for God, at the same time, be a Father in Heaven and be a Son on earth?

Again, I will say, and repeat, in light of the earlier provided Isaiah 9:6 given with underlined FYIs, you really ought to, at least and for a start,
be asking yourself the following questions:
#1 Why did the God, need to become, God, the Father?
#2 Why did God, need to become, God, the Son?
#3 Why did God, stick to this means and follow these protocols?

This remark sums up the reason why you've dug your heels in the ground because you don't realise that it isn't a matter of necessity but it is the reality

The Holy Spirit had been involved right from the beginning.

How do you think Mary had God?

Chief, c'mon now, haba, are you really tongue in cheek seriously, suggesting that the Holy Spirit was given the task of salvation, atonement and redemption?

I already have answered bro, check up the thread again
and if you come back, saying you can't find it
then I don't my repeating and/or re-hashing it.

For now and/or at the moment,
you do understand, the sentiment behind
the phrase "my right hand man"?
Don't you?

MuttleyLaff:
Jesus is the Son of God because He was begotten by God

And as many as received Jesus, to them, too, has been given the authority or power to become sons of God, even to them that believe on Jesus' name

I like your oversimplified Italian analogy,
but now indulge me,
Is this Italian, a spirit at all?
Is this Italian, able to manifest his Italian self in flesh?

The feeling is mutual

The control is down to grace and out of a labour of love
Control, self control, to be precise, is part of the fruit of the Spirit

We are not arguing brother, rather we, according to our understanding levels, are airing

I second that and say Jesus is more

Ditto
You do same too until our paths cross again
when you are ready to answer:
Is it impossible for God to simultaneously and concurrently be in Heaven and earth at any moment of time?

MuttleyLaff:
For unto us a Child is born,
unto us a Son is given:
and the government shall be upon His shoulder:
and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God,
The everlasting Father,
The Prince of Peace.
- Isaiah 9:6

The same verse as above.
Don't you remember stylishly ignoring it
Anyways, I am now getting used to your feigning and delayed tactics

You won't find a verse with the term, God, the Son per se
however Isaiah 9:6, is where I highlighted, with emphasised underlines, showing Jesus prophesied to be born a Son,
then be respectively called mighty God and everlasting Father



let me help you, the verse say he shall be called mighty God the everlasting father, not he is the everlasting father. more like he shall be called Andrew or Emmanuel

adelee777:
Bro there is nothing you can say to convince a trinity believing guy dat has made vp his mind not to follow scripture. They will always have a way of spinning it, sometimes to downright comical levels. Josef Goebbels said 'when a lie is repeated over and over it starts sounding like the truth'. That's their case. Shalom.

MuttleyLaff:
Obviously you haven't understood and that's what has made you incorrectly think the Bible intentionally is being twisted

If it makes you feel better, be deceiving yourself there.

For unto us a Child is born,
unto us a Son is given:
and the government shall be upon His shoulder:
and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God,
The everlasting Father,
The Prince of Peace.
- Isaiah 9:6

That Isaiah 9:6 above aside, you really ought to, at least and for a start,
be asking yourself the following questions:
#1 Why did the God, need to become, God, the Father?
#2 Why did God, need to become, God, the Son?
#3 Why did God, stick to this means and follow these protocols?

Seems, you aren't used to or you aren't familiar with the term; incarnation

I'll ask you this question again that you've stylishly ignored:
Is it impossible for God to simultaneously and concurrently be in Heaven and earth at any moment of time?

MuttleyLaff:
Obviously you haven't understood and that's what has made you incorrectly think the Bible intentionally is being twisted

If it makes you feel better, be deceiving yourself there.

For unto us a Child is born,
unto us a Son is given:
and the government shall be upon His shoulder:
and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God,
The everlasting Father,
The Prince of Peace.
- Isaiah 9:6

That Isaiah 9:6 above aside, you really ought to, at least and for a start,
be asking yourself the following questions:
#1 Why did the God, need to become, God, the Father?
#2 Why did God, need to become, God, the Son?
#3 Why did God, stick to this means and follow these protocols?

Seems, you aren't used to or you aren't familiar with the term; incarnation

I'll ask you this question again that you've stylishly ignored:
Is it impossible for God to simultaneously and concurrently be in Heaven and earth at any moment of time?

MuttleyLaff:
If you had read, as in, really read, Hebrews, the whole chapter 1, you would have noted references to verses from the Messianic Psalms and spotted, when God, precisely became Father and/or became Son
but of course, you can't,
because you're working very hard to stay and remain ignorant to truth

MuttleyLaff:
SMH. You make laugh as I am no match for your ignorance

Please, if at all you haven't picked up anything so far, take aboard that, context is king
How you managed to not properly understand John 1:1-3 and Isaiah 55:11 is unfortunate.

Did Jesus return void, unaccomplished?

MuttleyLaff:
Why don't paste here what Psalm 110:1 says?
I can bet my bottom dollar, you've misunderstood it

The earlier Stephen explanation I gave, understandably, went over your head

The truth, always, will set you free, but first it will piss you off

What Jesus said and what I said are true.
What the Bible says and what I said, also is true

I haven't even posted anything on this thread yet, about the original words of the Bible.
You don't even know what the original words of the bible are, because if you do, you wouldn't in the manner you did, be referring me to Psalms 110.1

Unbelievers ridiculing the bible is the least of your concerns because any that does, do it at their own peril
I understandably know, you're out of your depth.

MuttleyLaff:
¹In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, [i]and the Word was God.
²He was with God in the beginning. ³Through him all things were made;
without him nothing was made that has been made.
¹⁴The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us
- John 1-3; 14

Oookaaay, so now in light of John 1-3 and 14 above, are you insisting and saying God wasn't on earth?

MuttleyLaff:
¹In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, [i]and the Word was God.
²He was with God in the beginning. ³Through him all things were made;
without him nothing was made that has been made.
¹⁴The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us
- John 1-3; 14

Oookaaay, so now in light of John 1-3 and 14 above, are you insisting and saying God wasn't on earth?

MuttleyLaff:
¹In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, [i]and the Word was God.
²He was with God in the beginning. ³Through him all things were made;
without him nothing was made that has been made.
¹⁴The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us
- John 1-3; 14

Oookaaay, so now in light of John 1-3 and 14 above, are you insisting and saying God wasn't on earth?

MuttleyLaff:
Behold, the virgin shall be with child,
and shall bring forth a son,
And they shall call his name Immanuel; which is, being interpreted, God with us
- Matthew 1:23

Walls01, who is the baby in Matthew 1:23 above, whose name is interpreted as "God with us"?
In what form was that and the God with us?

MuttleyLaff:
Behold, the virgin shall be with child,
and shall bring forth a son,
And they shall call his name Immanuel; which is, being interpreted, God with us
- Matthew 1:23

Walls01, who is the baby in Matthew 1:23 above, whose name is interpreted as "God with us"?
In what form was that and the God with us?

MuttleyLaff:
You sound surprised
If you want something done right
or want it be done, in a very certain or particular way,
then it becomes necessary and best for you, to do it yourself

So that's what God did.
God DIY, by sending Himself.
God, became God, the Father, as well as He became God, the Son
God, a Spirit, came down to earth, embodied in flesh (i.e. human being body) in the person of Jesus Christ, God, the Son

God, the Father and God, the Son, are one

Of course, it clearly is God now.

Or who do you think is the driving force behind Jesus? Who motivates Jesus? Who influences Jesus? Who is Jesus always yielding to? Who sent Jesus?

Please tell now.
Or is it Obatala? Is it alcohol? Is it the stomach? Is it drugs?

Think about when God became God, the Father and also became God, the Son

Also who or what are you expecting Jesus to cry to, if not God.

I have explained this, if not somewhere above, then it'll be in the reply to adelee777

Correction,
God, in His capacity, as God, the Father, spoke from heaven, saying this is my Son, in Whom, Am well pleased with

Same as the last answer above

MuttleyLaff:
The meaning is, that, just as God sent Himself, so does He send you.

There is no argument whatsover and none anywhere for that matter, as regards to, whether or not Jesus is the same as God (i.e. one being) especially if you agree and accept that it is possible for God to simultaneously and concurrently being in heaven and on earth at any particular point in time

parisbookaddict:
i prefer to be on the side of early christians who acknowledged the divinity of Jesus. even before the early councils which came to agreement on the trinity, Jesus was already recognized by the earliest christians as THE SON of God. biblical passages show people bend down and worship him after healings, forgiving sins etc. Dont you think Jesus would have made it clear if he wasnt God the son by condemning the people who did that.
Son of God= divinity
son of man= human
it is clear when you read the bible.

God the son and Son of God as you simplistically try to differentiate them is borne out of you understanding of english language. remember these verses are interpreted from Aramaic and Hebrew which are rich languages with deeper meaning, even arabic is rich in its meaning and that is why muslims have various interpretations from the same quran.
The majority of Christians for 2017 years are in no doubt as to Jesus being God the Son.

MuttleyLaff:
The meaning is, that, just as God sent Himself, so does He send you.

There is no argument whatsover and none anywhere for that matter, as regards to, whether or not Jesus is the same as God (i.e. one being) especially if you agree and accept that it is possible for God to simultaneously and concurrently being in heaven and on earth at any particular point in time

parisbookaddict:
i prefer to be on the side of early christians who acknowledged the divinity of Jesus. even before the early councils which came to agreement on the trinity, Jesus was already recognized by the earliest christians as THE SON of God. biblical passages show people bend down and worship him after healings, forgiving sins etc. Dont you think Jesus would have made it clear if he wasnt God the son by condemning the people who did that.
Son of God= divinity
son of man= human
it is clear when you read the bible.

God the son and Son of God as you simplistically try to differentiate them is borne out of you understanding of english language. remember these verses are interpreted from Aramaic and Hebrew which are rich languages with deeper meaning, even arabic is rich in its meaning and that is why muslims have various interpretations from the same quran.
The majority of Christians for 2017 years are in no doubt as to Jesus being God the Son.