₦airaland Forum

I remember discussing the evidence of divine authorship of the bible with a Christian right here on this site. I can't recall his handle, but he was very forthright and honest. He defended his beliefs about Jesus, by admitting that it was based on faith and corroborated by his experience only. He then astonished me by acknowledging that he understood the evidence required to link the bible with Yahweh, and that such evidence was unavailable. I couldn't help but respect the guy. He proved his faith by his honesty. The apologists I've encountered since then have turned out to be liars first and Christians second.

RikoduoSennin: ^^your opinion. That doesn't change the fact. Google is there. Do the research!

I have, thank you very much. It is incumbent upon you to post your own link.

mazaje1: He goes to apologist sites that make things up and claim the bible says this or that, when shown clear scientific errors in the bible they same people will tell you that the bible is not a science text book . . .Funny people. . .I clearly showed him where the bible made wrong prophecies and he came up with answers like "ohh the place the bible mentioned is not the one in this earth but a supernatural one and the prophecy will happen in heaven". . .Pleas how deluded can one be?. . .

What he doesn't realize is that every argument he makes is simply a regurgitation of debunked ones. There is nothing new as far as the bible is concerned. The bible is a book of wrong prophecies. If Judaism could be uncoupled from Jewish nationalism and tradition, all the Jews would be atheists.

mazaje1: I have shown you already, list one science book that says Job was the first to write that the earth was a sphere, list one science book that says that the bible was the first to say that the earth hangs on nothing. . .List one science book that gives the bible credit for being the first to make any scientific discovery. . .You are just ridiculous. . .

And even if the bible and Job were the first, how does that prove that it is the word of an omnipotent deity? The squared root of 2, for example, goes to infinity. Yahweh could have provided Job with the one billionth digit, or the 2 trillionth digit. Computers today could verify the data, and we would have a real puzzle on our hands. Instead, Job is talking about circles over deeps and other gibberish.

BraveGuy: What you keep failing to see or admit is the FACT that the Bible led scientists (and in this case - oceanographers) in the way they have walked so far.

Atheist friends, keep digging!

This is more like it. These are the kinds of scenarios that Christians usually present to justify the divine origination of the bible. I'm used to non sequitur like this one. But this latest selective biblical literalism business with which you're currently engaged doesn't suit you well. Stop trying to make sense out of the bible. It doesn't make sense, that's why Faith is required.

BraveGuy: So an information that had been around before the scientific world picked it up should be ignored? I mean the original source should be deemed irrelevant because an atheist doesn't believe it?

I didn't see anything in the scriptures you posted which validates your assertion. The bible does not say that the earth is a sphere or a circle. It doesn't! Let it go! You're causing other Christians to have doubts because of your blatant lies. Thou shalt not lie, remember? You're doing it on a public forum.

RikoduoSennin: . Plus, I also gave you real life instances proving that human life expectancy is on the decline.

You did not, because it isn't true.

I make two points. One, the bible doesn't state the correct geometric shape of the earth.

Second point: even if it does, it wouldn't mean that an invisible entity called Yahweh could have been the ONLY source behind the information. Other humans figured the sh.it out using shadows and sticks. This evidence is inadmissible as far as divine origination is concerned.

BraveGuy: You are still arguing that the Bible revealed that the earth is round? Job 26:10, Prov 8:27, Isaiah 40:22, Amos 9:6.

I'm not arguing anything, fair minded people, even Christians, can see that it doesn't. Go to the link I posted.

BraveGuy: Your point regarding the four corners is easily understood when taken in context. North, south, east and west have been described as the four reaches of the earth even in modern times. It's a poetic figure of speech.

Here is a site written by Christians more honest than yourself where it is acknowledged that the bible doesn't mention a spherical earth, not from the Hebrew translation. In fact, there is no word for sphere in Hebrew.

http://www.crivoice.org/circle.html

BraveGuy: Where did you go to school? If I were you I would ask for my money back!

LOL, so the verses I quoted were references to the cardinal points, even though other scriptures directly mentioned the points by name, without ambiguity? Out of all the verses you bring here, NOT EVEN ONE states that the earth is round or a circle. Isaiah 40:22 doesn't say that the earth is a circle. Nowhere in Job is it written that the earth is round or a circle. Any fair minded person can see that you're being disingenuous, ascribing meaning to phrases in order to satisfy an existing agenda.

Secondly, I mentioned Eratosthenes for one reason only, to prove that mammals, without the assistance of a supernatural omnipotent entity, can make discoveries of this nature using the most rudimentary of materials. You should be ashamed to present not only these unintelligible verses as evidence that the bible authors knew the correct geometric shape of the earth, but to also imply that it is impossible for humans to make this sort of discovery without the help of Yahweh. Lastly, Satan tempted Jesus in the novel, taking him up high and showing him all the kingdoms of the world. Is it possible to see all the kingdoms of the world from one location like "the highest mountain" if the earth isn't flat?

alexleo: Obviously you can see your foolishness being acknowledged here by both christians and atheists. When I told you how foolish you are in the other thread you opened you started ranting and spewing rubbish. Can you see everybody confirming the height of your foolishness here?

LOL. You sound like one of his parents.

RikoduoSennin: .

Man have been able to live much longer than now. Methuselah lived 969 years etc, Having faith base on this evidence is not far fetched mostly as man will be made perfect one again.

Doctor WHO also lived to be 900+ years in the script, just like Methuselah did in the book. SMH. Are you saying that when our knowledge about human health and the origin of diseases was at its lowest point, it was then that humans lived the longest? A brain is a terrible thing to waste.

BraveGuy: Of course, yes.

So let us check them out individually. Let's examine exhibit A, which is:
The bible said that the earth was round (Isaiah 40:22) before Galileo, therefore only an omnipotent and omniscient person could have shared that information with the Jews.

Like I said before, this is not evidence of the divine origins of the bible. In 240 BC, a scientist called
Eratosthenes figured out the correct circumference
of the earth using shadows, sticks, pencil, and paper.
http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2011/09/21/who-discovered-the-earth-is-ro/
The knowledge doesn't remotely suggest that Yahweh must have shared insider information. Additionally, the language used in Isaiah 40:22 is ambiguous. It didn't say that the earth is a circle, but rather "he sits above the circle of the earth." A lot of ancients believed that the SKY was a dome above a flat earth. "Above the circle" could just as easily be a reference to the sky, which would be consistent with the prevailing ideas of Yahweh's residence everywhere else in the bible.
And then there are the scriptures which contradict your assertion: Job 38:13, Jeremiah 16:9, Daniel 4:11 all use the phrase, to/from "the ends of the earth."
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it

A spherical object has no end. Then there are the scriptures which state that the earth has four corners, like a flat surface of definite shape:
Isaiah 11:12, Rev 7:1

Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.
Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

A circle doesn't have four corners. My conclusion is this, even if Isaiah was the first author to acknowledge the spherical shape of the earth, that fact does not suggest that an omnipotent and omniscient person told him. In fact, a reasonable person would only arrive at your conclusions of divine inspiration after exhausting ALL other possibilities, including the possibility that Britney Spears bought a time machine, went back in time, and told Isaiah. Secondly, the bible describes a flat earth in many other verses, implying that the ambiguous diction of Isaiah 40:22 was not a reference to the geometric shape of the earth, but of the visible dome of the sky.

italo: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorruptibility

Do you believe that nonsense?

italo: Read what it means to be "incorruptible."
.

The word is self explanatory, the context is unintelligible. Humans beings don't live for centuries. What the hell are you talking about?

chuxyz: I might not be known for telling the TRUTH but i am known for telling the FACT which is a proven TRUTH

LOL.

italo: Many.

E.g St. Clare of Montefalco, St. Catherine of Bologna etc

Are you saying that they lived for centuries? Or just their corpses?

^^^ Do you consider those points you mentioned here to be evidence of the claim that only someone with Yahweh's attributes is the source of the bible?

chuxyz: I'm not an atheist for i believe in God and His existence. I have been with lot of atheist and i see much reasons in their reasoning. I only have to believe in God by only accepting one fact in my heart - that God is imperfect. And i believe, if we have this in the religious believe, there would be little or no atheist in our midst. Why we have most atheist is because of the contradiction of a perfect God creating imperfect beings. I think God is imperfect but through praises(hyping) there was need for christians to overhype him. Of course, while praising someone you must over hype that person. My king in my village is called and praised with the name ogbuagu (lion killer) but i tell you this same man will scream when a cockroach jumps on his body. If you read Genesis 6:6, it indicated that God regretted ever creating man. Regrets can be attributed to mistakes, which can be attributed to imperfection. And one only regrets because he doesn't know what the future holds. That means God does not know the future. He never knew man will disappoint him and that's imperfection. If God had created satan and man perfect, they wouldn't have turned against him. But of course God is our big boss and father we must praise Him to get what we want. Now i have proved God is imperfect, let me prove there is God. Men, this one is hard o. But i will say for you to believe in imperfection of a God means that there must be a God at the first place. Likewise, if you believe in evil forces(juju or jazz), then there must be an opposite force which is concerned about good morals. For there to be voodoo means there has to be God. There must also be a wonderful designer of you and i. Don't mind Charles Darwin that said we evolved from ape. He is a liar cos we still have apes existing up till date yet none wants to evolve to human. Lol. There is God o and there are many proofs.

Atheists and Christians are unified in their astonishment this time. Which doctrine is your own? Hahaha. I don't blame you, everyone else is making things up, why not you, eh?

Not one single evidence of the divine origins of the bible has been provided. Braveguy, I'm disappointed. Show me something which could only indicate that someone with the attributes of Yahweh must be the source of the bible. From my vantage point, it looks like mammals wrote it. Mammals like me.

Accepting the possibility that Moses watched a movie is like conceding any hope of solving the mystery. Out of all available possibilities, it may be the least likely. The most likely scenario remains the likelihood that someone told a lie.

In order to believe the bible, one must accept the possibility that Moses watched a movie and GOD was the director. Forget the fact that the event does not occur in nature.

italo: If the body of a person can remain incorruptible for centuries, why can't a virgin give birth to a child.

Who remained incorruptible for centuries?

Dux01: pray and ask God to open your spiritual .also fast to live a crucified life.But you have to first surrender to Jesus-whom you don't believe in.No wonder you doubt that these things exist.

You meet someone online and advise that person to voluntarily starve himself in order to live a life reminiscent of human sacrifice. Smh.

Dux01: i telling you they appear it is just that you don't see them

So how do you see them? Special glasses from NASA?

Reyginus: Op, don't you think that it is even a logical contradiction to think that religion does not admit logic? This is what I mean, lady.

If anything cannot be explained logically, by what means are you suggesting that it does not admit logic?

If you don't get me you can ask for clarification.

Whatchu talkin bout bro?

efficiencie: ...This bros no bux ma lungs with laff...you go just sleep forever... D; ...So you share the same end with animals, no wonder you won't find it hard accepting the view that ''your ancestors were apes''...wow, bro...from the looks of things it appears you are already sleeping the great sleep...sleep on!

Yahweh's own chosen people, the Jews, believe the same thing.

chiedu7: THE GOD OF ISRAEL IS SUPERIOR TO THE MUSLIM GOD

Jews do not believe that Jesus was even a real prophet let alone God. They don't pray to him. So who is helping them?

Kentura: OK... Let's face it, You don't believe in my God and I don't believe in yours... Why the fuss and rants? Why are you trying to convince christians that their God doesn't exist? Can't you just serve your god or have you grown tired of your god?

My God is greater than your god. I worship Odin.

cbrass: Its the hand of God, A commander in Egppt during the 6days war confirmed that there is a God in Isreal, or how do you think a tiny army could have fought a whole plaestinian army solidly backed by egypt and other arab countires

They were heavily funded by the US and British governments.

BraveGuy: Weah96, you don't know who you are dealing with. I guess you're trying to look at me with your own mirror. No, you've got it very wrong, bro. I am in involved in some brainwashed religion.

Freudian slip, eh? Keep deceiving yourself. Common sense is slapping you. LOL.