₦airaland Forum

BraveGuy: Ever heard of WILLFUL submission before? Let me help you, it is NOT forced submission as is popularized by Muslims in Jihad; In fact, submission may not be a good way of describing the act of willful surrender, it is more of an acknowledgement of supremacy. And the beauty that defies logic in the act is that the Supreme Being, God Almighty, takes that person not as a servant but as a friend.
Perhaps, in a most simplistic way, it is like a wealthy huge muscular man befriending a poor little boy. The man calls the little boy his friend and so does the boy, but that does not mean that the boy would not know his limitations and show respect to his friend.

Ok, let's call it mandatory friendship. Does that make sense to you? How can someone who wants to be your friend also promise to torture you if you refuse? With "friends" like that, who needs enemies? Hahaha.

Joel3: well let me say this, it will be sad for me to pass by without saying this.

The truth is nothing is evil... The word evil was invented by man.

You have no problem in killing and eating animals? Do you? You see them as normal and good. You even take them as food and nutritious value, you researchers even says they can cure this and cure that.

I wouldn't say nothing is evil. I prefer evil is good. But I've been making the exact same observations about our relationship with the rest of the animal kingdom right here on this forum. Someone called me unreasonable, even after I explained I eat meat and fish myself. Do you by any chance use entheogens?

BraveGuy: This woman's research should prove something to you....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2545668/Is-proof-near-death-experiences-ARE-real-Extraordinary-new-book-intensive-care-nurse-reveals-dramatic-evidence-says-banish-fear-dying.html

Nothing new here. I already know about DMT and the effects that it has on the CNS. The chemical is not exclusive to plants. In fact, it is endogenous to humans as well, and is produced by your own pineal gland every night during REM sleep and high stress situations (NDEs, 40 day/night fasts). I prefer entheogens though. They're quicker, easier, and you don't have to be asleep. You become an alien observer of the sleep realm instead.

http://wondergressive.com/death-solved-by-vestigial-gland/

BraveGuy: Stop lying! You believed it outrightly without questioning that was why you posted it for me

What are you talking about dude? You had a conversation with another handle about brainwaves. It wasn't me.

BraveGuy: Meaning? You mean after whoever has claimed to carry out a supposed experiment in a logical pattern and if it is confirmed by another person following the same logical pattern, then it must be the truth?

Not whoever, but ANYONE. Let the impediment to the experiment be finances, not being ALIVE. I shouldn't have to kill myself to verify your deity. Besides, I don't believe that brain waves are real only because of the reputation of the sources. Their claims must also be consistent with reality, ie, products like pharmaceutical drugs and high tech gadgets that are based on those claims must work flawlessly. Otherwise, like the handful of Jewish authors who wrote your book, they should not be believed.

cococandy: You free will and the will of God aren't mutually exclusive.
Your free will can let you decide to do good or evil
But it can't let you decide to win the lottery or get hit by lightening.

Show me the person handing out these winning lotto numbers. I promise to worship him or her.

BraveGuy: It's like saying if I don't know something you have no right to know it either. You're a victim of delusion.

Wrong. If I don't know, and you claim to know, then your knowledge must undergo scrutiny before it can be accepted by me. But you DO have the RIGHT to know. Let's not create strawmen please. Example, you claim to know what happens when people die. I don't. Meanwhile, I clearly see that you've never been dead before. Is it wrong for me to be extremely suspicious of your knowledge?

BraveGuy: You're a victim of your own intellect. You claim that you believe there is a God, but you don't know who this God is, yet you can't define Him in any context. So, you simply believe in an Unknown God.

I've never discussed brainwaves with you. But you're right, it is a man made conception, just like that bible you're running around with. The difference is, brainwaves are subject to experiments, even if the research team consists of atheists, Muslims, and Christians. The bible is not. Only Christians consider it to be the word of a deity.

tdcministry: If the bible is false( which I know is not) what will be my loses for obeying the words there?

Are you serious? You could enter a number of different Hellfires, beginning with the Muslim one. If the bible is false, it doesn't mean that God doesn't exist. It means that the Jesus God doesn't exist. And then you and the atheist would be in EXACTLY the same place for not believing in the other Gods.

BraveGuy: @ Kay17 or whoever thinks like and wants to help him....

Does it not impress you that you just suddenly appeared in a world that suddenly appeared?

I'm more impressed by the fact that I'm able to create human beings by moving my hips. That's enough for me. But to answer your question, have you ever heard of the principle of parsimony? It is unreasonable to begin to dissect a mystery by first embracing the most outlandish theory. Except yours isn't a theory. You consider it a fact, and I must accept the fact on face value, ignoring the credibility of the people who stated it.

BraveGuy:

So God should have created robots then - no variation, the same bland look-alikes. Then He should not have created colour into nature, maybe black and white would have sufficed.

My position is that your deity, the omiscient designer we've been discussing, is imaginary. So these are questions for you to answer which shouldn't be too difficult, because this omniscient designer is in regular, abi, constant contact with you. For the sake of assumption, an omniscient designer could never overcome the problem of universal agency. In other words, everything would be his fault by design. Even if all humans were created identical by such an entity, it could still interfere through our interactions with the environment, which itself would have undoubtedly been designed with the 'robot humans' in mind. That is why I don't believe it. The Jewish authors who came up with this nonsense did not think it through. The Greeks were better. It is possible to conceal s)hit from Zeus.

BraveGuy: In the Bible, we have this same issue clarified where God said, "I hate Esau, but I love Jacob," even before they were born. And the lives the men lived happened to actually conform to what was said about them. That is one of omniscience. But does that mean their freewill was violated? Of course not. They lived without interference and made their choices. The foreknowledge of God was simply expressed.

Freewill was an illusion to the characters in this story. If EVERYTHING was designed by the same omniscient creator, then it's inconceivable that their pattern of thought wasn't designed specifically to fulfill their destiny. You also have a narrow definition of what interference is. It doesn't have to occur AFTER the product has already been created. It can occur during the process of design. Assigning the genes for blue eyes to a human is interference, if the designer is omniscient. The eyes are expected to play a particular role in realizing the fate of the individual, because they would come into contact with other products designed from the same lab.

BraveGuy: OK. Here are examples on the issue of the snow:
Also, regarding the Michelangelo work, I wasn't referring to the fate of the end-product, all I mentioned was the completed work itself not the future of the work.

I see that you corrected yourself on the issue of the snow. Now you seem to be referring to the level of precipitation, not the thickness of "snowflakes" or drops of rain. You're on your own btw, I'm not going to get into that sort of speculation.
I don't understand the usefulness of bringing up Michelangelo in a discussion about an omniscient designer and free will. The deity described in the bible would KNOW the fate of his products, unless there is some undisclosed limitations to his omniscience. Human designers do not. They can only speculate. As a third grader, I remember designing a paper plane. I knew then how the finished product should have looked before I even started. As I type this, I don't know what happened to my plane. This scenario couldn't be true if I was an omniscient designer. I would've foreseen the fate of the plane before I even commenced work on the project. Maybe, our ideas about what omniscience is differ, and they shouldn't.

ayogabriel: Why not stop praying and start thanking him for the ones he does on a normal basis.

The bible is the book of rules here, not you. He's following the bible and wants to know if he should continue.

BraveGuy: If I missed it all along, you just showed how scientific or intelligent you are! Have you ever seen or handled snow before?

I seem to forget that you quite thick up there so you can't even understand what you read. Go and read what I wrote again!

I was caught in the middle of that Atlanta snowstorm that made national news only a few months ago. I've lived in Providence, RI. So yes, I've seen snow. There's no such thing as a 30 inch thick snowflake. Snowflakes come in different sizes of length and width. "A 30 inch thick bag of rice" is a meaningless phrase, unless the size of the bag is mentioned.

It appears that you are refusing to answer the question, choosing instead to use human designers as a model for understanding omniscient design. Human designers know the finished product, they do not know its fate. Only an omniscient designer would know such a thing. Michelangelo didn't know the future of the entire Sistine Chapel or Italy, he only knew what his product should look like upon completion.

sambisa5: Of cos if you don't fear it,you can't live right.....and if you don't belive hell exist, you can kill your neighbour,father,mother,siblings,friends and nothing touches your concience, you can dupe people and still feel good about your actions....
[

Remain what you are brother, we don't want to see your family murdered by your hands. Just remember that the Jews don't preach a doctrine of hellfire. Most of them have yet to murder their parents.

BraveGuy: So, why would you think less of God, who was making His grandest work yet, Man, that He didn't have an end-product in mind?

The omniscience of God has far MUCH MORE capabilities and abilities (omnipotence). That was why Jesus Christ informed us that God knows even the number of strands of hair on our heads.

When you read the Bible, you will discover some incredible descriptions that are beyond ordinary human minds. For example, in the Book of Job, God asked Job if he has ever entered into the treasures of the snow or that of the hail? If you dig a bit deeper about the snow, you will discover it indeed has a treasury. Snow always appear as a fragile tiny six-sided crystal. Yet no two crystals are alike! So fine is the snow that it takes a 30-inch layer of dry snow to equal the water in a 1-inch rainfall .

First of all, Michelangelo was not omniscient, so I don't understand why his process of creativity is even remotely related to the creation of the universe by a deity. I asked you a very simple question. Was your deity always omniscient or were those abilities obtained after Goetze was designed?
FYI, your comment about the snow is one of the lamest things I've read this year. A 30 inch layer of snow makes a 1 inch drop of rain? What are the other dimensions of this 30 inch layer? SMH. There is nothing in that scripture you posted which suggests that your deity knows anything about snowflakes or snow. Have you ever seen treasures inside a snowflake before? Or is it another of those cryptic messages that only a "holy spirit filled" person like yourself can discern?

frosbel: ^^

Sorry brother I am firm believer in God, the difference between me and you is that I am no longer under the process of brain washing and control of MEN, I now independently verify the authenticity of my belief, call it rationalization. God will be proud of me thats why he gave me a brain so that I do not follow follow the doctrines of MEN.

I repeat, the god that sends people to eternal torture is SATAN and not Almighty God, check up bro because you may be operating under deception.

Thanks.

Explains why God's chosen people don't believe in hellfire. I'm referring to the Jews. They have no record of any prophecy related to Jesus either. Don't know why Christians quote Isaiah at all.

http://outreachjudaism.org/dual-prophecy-virgin-birth/

BraveGuy: Like I said earlier, someone needs to put on their thinking cap.

So, God made him chest the ball...?

I'm glad that you asked. The answer depends on the abilities that the designer in question possessed during the process of creating Goetze. Was this designer always omniscient? Or was the gift of omniscience obtained after Goetze had already been created? Keep in mind the entirety of the claim that the bible makes. The bible states that God the omniscient designer created what's known as the universe. Goetze is but one of his creations.

uchkochi: THE EASIEST WAY TO DEAL WITH IMPOSSIBILITIES IS TO BELIEVE GOD.

Unbelief is lack of faith.Honestly if you should look around you,you may be discouraged and may lose your faith,because what may be happening to you may not be what you are expecting.To deal with unbelief and doubt you must not walk by sight but by faith.Let God's word have the final say in all things.Consider the word of God before considering the happenings around you.Mark 11:23, says that once you believe without doubting in your heart then you will possess your possessions.(paraphrased by me). Many people believe but when they look around them they begin to doubt.Any time you doubt you prolong your miracle.Doubts or unbelief is the strongest barrier hindering you.Jesus said that if you can believe, all things are possible. So once you begin to doubt you begin to experience impossibilities AND when you begin to believe, you begin to experience possibilities. I COMMAND EVERY DIFFICULT DOOR TO BE OPENED IN JESUS NAME.

Would you be willing to put this to the test? Let's pick an easy impossibility, like resurrection. It's easy because the Christian God has done it in literature on many occasions. Would you be willing to blow up your head with a rifle, and bring yourself back to life?

tdcministry: Evidence can be given by God to anyone whose heart is right with him

Shouldn't the evidence precede the alliance? What If a stranger shows up at your house, informs you that your property is his, and requires that you sign some paperwork surrendering everything to him? Would you not ask for an ID or credentials or proof of his claims BEFORE signing anything?

BraveGuy: No, but you mentioned Bill Gates in your statement. So, instead of trying to use more vitamins in tasking my brain to understand your gibberish, I decided to refer you to that maybe it will address your point. Looks like it did

Like I said, tap out. I don't blame you. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole can be a very demanding exercise.

BraveGuy: You are the one re-engineering my words.

Read what I expressed about Gotze again.... "He created someone like Mario Gotze gave him his talents, protected him from childhood.... " where is suddenly in that on the day of world cup final?

You need glasses?

So where was Gotze's own free will in all of this? You're saying that God protected his legs throughout infancy and childhood, so that he could end up scoring the winning goal in the WC final. That is determinism, not free will.

ayodele123: IF U GO TO HELL,U ARE THE HEARTLESS ONE WHO JOKED WITH HIS SALVATION
YOU ARE THE ONE WHO DECIDES WHERE U WILL GO!

A choice between submission and death is not really a choice. How long do you think you can survive in heaven, before turning on your evil master for roasting members of your own family? 100 years? 2 million years? Or one trillion years? Remember all you're doing is bowing and kneeling, there's no sex, no secular music, no TV, just worship.

BraveGuy: I don't get your point.

But let me refer you to an event about Bill Gates a couple of years back: http://imranontech.com/2007/02/20/did-bill-gates-say-the-640k-line/?

You do get my point, which is why you decided to tap out using this. What is the meaning of this?

BraveGuy: The Designer possibly made him wait on the bench for his glorious time - perhaps he was angry at the manager for not starting him. Tell me, what would all those previous pains and aches amount to after he won the game for his teammates and country?

Yet, when he got on that field that day, even if he has been told that he would win the world cup for his country, he still has to perform, otherwise he could have got on the pitch and just sat down.

My point, you can't argue against freewill because there is foreknowledge. Foreknowledge is mere knowledge, irrespective of the probabilities. When God intervenes then we call such a miracle, because He uses His omnipotence and that defies logic and the laws of nature to which we are accustomed.

You are creating a false argument. I'm not arguing against free will because 'there is foreknowledge.' I clearly stated that in probably the first two sentences. I'm arguing that it cannot exist, if the entity with omniscience (which includes knowledge of past events as well) is also the designer of the entire universe. It is possible for free will in humans to exist along with an omniscient being, but in order for that to be true, the omniscient being must not be the designer.
Following your Gotze analogy, are you saying that it is possible for God to have engineered his steps up until the moment he was called in to play, and then suddenly endow him with the ability to decide whether to play or not?

How can a creature that was designed by an omniscient entity CHOOSE to do anything? Was the designer omniscient before, during, and after the process of creation? Or was there a blind spot at some moment? Let's assume that the developers at Microsoft became omniscient. Let's also assume that in addition to PCs, those suddenly omniscient developers decided to create human clones. Would it be possible for one of their clones to defecate on a new PC in the middle of Times Square without them not only predicting the event, but accounting for it in their design of that particular clone?

BraveGuy: Omniscience is often misjudged to be predestination. Free will is quite capable within the context of omniscience.
Think of it like the recent FIFA World Cup. Omniscience would have predicted that Germany would win the world cup. But does that mean all the other 31 countries would not play their part? No, knowing does not mean controlling. However, the story has been written and the actors and actresses are in play, which where you and I are found. Whatever we do will not change the ending of the story, because the stage is all set for a grand finale. That is where the Bible comes into play. It tells us of the parts before it is played, that is why it is not an ordinary book.

You're right, foreknowledge doesn't imply input. Unless of course, the agent claiming to be omniscient is also claiming to be the designer of EVERYTHING. In that scenario, free will cannot exist. An omniscient designer of the universe would have not only predicted the triumph of Germany, but would have designed every participant with Brazil 2014 in mind. I could extrapolate the implications even further to the incidences of plagues and other horrible things, but you get the point. Yahweh/Jesus is incompatible with the concept of free will. You admit that the story has already been written. Well if the novel has already been written, then of what use is the bible? Is it not just an object in an already completed novel?

onyekap: Several teachings on tithing keep emerging, what is rather most important is the motive behind it, of which varies. It is needless sometimes to raise criticism. The whole crux is consequent upon the realm on which one is operating from, hence we all do not or may not be operate from same level at a particular point in time. Giving is good, tithing is an act of giving, we are exorted to continue to give.

Spoken like a true tither.

BraveGuy: Rather, it is you who thinks he knows everything and hence can "rightly" conclude that there is no God.

Before anyone can claim there is no God, like you, such a one needs to have an impeccable intellectual knowledge,

I never said that there is no God. Secondly, being an atheist doesn't require intellectual knowledge, it merely requires that one has two or three brain cells left to control what remains of his eyesight. I'm the one claiming that I don't know what happens after people die. You're claiming that you DO know, that you read it in a book written by Jewish people called the bible. You require the impeccable knowledge.

italo: Priests have a lot of access to children. Priests spend more time with children than biological fathers...in many cases. Yet paedophilia is less common with priests.


1. They dont keep records as the Catholic Church does.

2. The media focuses on the Catholic Church, not because they love children but because they hate the Catholic Church for the truth it stands for.

If you are allowed to enter heaven then I too must enter. Your moral compass is stuck on Satan. And this is coming from me, a non believer. Your last pope, that Ratzinger guy, as archbishop in Munich, sanctioned the transfer of a pedophil(e) to another parish where the devil went on to rap)e some more young children. As the cardinal in charge of the CDF, Ratzinger was in charge of p)edophiles from 2001. Read this letter and determine if his attitude is compatible with that of a pastor who finds out that a fellow MOG is sleeping with little boys.


http://www.bishop-accountability.org/resources/resource-files/churchdocs/EpistulaEnglish.htm

Kei144: You talk about curing cancer and AIDS, you do not know that scientists who are researching on cure for all these sicknesses are wasting their energy. God provided spiritual cure for all diseases long ago. If you know any person suffering from cancer or AIDS, ask the person to contact me through Nairaland email system. If the person contacts me, I will instruct him/her on how to receive healing from God. Alternatively, the person should contact me through a Holy Spirit filled Christian; I will instruct the Christian on how to heal the cancer or AIDS sufferer.

You must an atheist like me, here to ridicule Christians and blind faith. If not, then you're on drugs. I won't even call you a liar.