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IslamRe: Scientist Analysis Of The Quran by wiegraf: 9:46pm On Oct 28, 2012
@sweet
Don't you have pity for the ppl who do not have the time to reply to the sheer inanity in your posts? Surely you display some sort of intelligence in other aspects of your life, yes? Could you at least, once in a while, dig deep and use that to post something remotely worthy of consideration whenever you feel you must post in these parts? Something that displays an iota of intelligence? We aren't paid to school you, you know that?

Personally, I'd be much happier if you were trolling. You are not, and that is truly worrying.
IslamRe: Goat With 'Allah' On His Coat Goes On Sale by wiegraf: 5:12pm On Oct 28, 2012
tintingz: The incription doesn't mean the goat is something to be worship. . .it's just a SIGN that Allah almighty is a living God who created the heavens and the earth, creatures(animals species) and humans. . .all praises to the LORD of the world.
Nice move by mr. Bhati for given 50per of the money to the orphanage
grin
True, I'm of the opinion that this is better 'proof' of god's existence than many of the other 'proofs' I see around here. For instance, I could actually travel and see the goat for myself with my own 2 eyes.
IslamRe: Goat With 'Allah' On His Coat Goes On Sale by wiegraf: 1:52pm On Oct 28, 2012
I can see the resemblance. Good sir, milk those suckers, milk em dry...
Christianity EtcRe: For Atheist And People Who Just Mock God. :-\ by wiegraf: 12:48pm On Oct 28, 2012
booqee: Ok i quite agree with most of you..its a baseless arguement..cos at least everybody will die(not everybody will die untimely anyway)..but dat don't justify dat mocking God is right either. Does it??
Btw, i'm not d one who formed d post..i saw d sense in it and i just pasted it to see reactions and comment..so y'all should take it easy on me. embarassed
Tis okay. But don't expect us to humor you, freedom of speech and all. We'll be hoping you extend the honor to us. Criticism, even if it looks like slander to you, is vital to progress. We won't be holding back.
Christianity EtcRe: Dealing With Depression & Suicidal Thoughts As An Atheist. logicboy Confesses. by wiegraf: 11:56am On Oct 28, 2012
Pastor Kun: From what i a have Logicnoy's problem like most ateist is actually religion and not dis belief in God per se. What atheists do is to take their hatred for religion to the extreme and delude themselves that there is no God when the evidence to the contrary is overwhelming. Even if the truths in christianity for instance is not immediately obivious, it intelligent design remains a scientific fact which implies there must be a super intelligent designer for evrything to work. Personally i think Logicboy is agnostic evne though like most atheist he is claiming atheism because he hates verything about the church.

My advice tohim and fellow atheists still remain: forget every thing you have been taught in church about what christianity is, grab a copy of the bible and study the gospel books with special emphasis on the direct teachings of christ with an open mind devoid of previous notions and let christ minster to you directly. Whatever choice you make after is yours but christ loves you all the same.
Are you sure there are no claims in here? Shall we take a look?

I'm glad you don't feel the need to apologize, so I'll extend the honor to you. You f**lishly make a post like this, claiming we delude ourselves when the evidence is overwhelming, then state you've not made any claims.

Evidence? Where? I do not know how it was done does not equal evidence. That's arguing from ignorance, that's god of the gaps. I don't know how my tv works, I'm very sure god didn't make it.

So, I'll wait here if you will.
IslamRe: Scientist Analysis Of The Quran by wiegraf: 11:48am On Oct 28, 2012
Op, don't bring these things here. You have your own section where you can roll in ignorance all day long. Why do you persist in reminding all that you have cancer?
Christianity EtcRe: Dealing With Depression & Suicidal Thoughts As An Atheist. logicboy Confesses. by wiegraf: 11:31am On Oct 28, 2012
Pastor Kun: prove it.
When I was dead, before I became alive, I didn't notice anyone making me. Expecting me to prove it when you are the one making the claim is again, very insulting. I hope you have some training in some sort of self-defence, we are fast reaching that stage.
Christianity EtcRe: Dealing With Depression & Suicidal Thoughts As An Atheist. logicboy Confesses. by wiegraf: 11:08am On Oct 28, 2012
^^^
There is no god, simples. Posts like that are insulting, even if that isn't your aim. Care for some fisticuffs? Meh .
Christianity EtcRe: Dealing With Depression & Suicidal Thoughts As An Atheist. logicboy Confesses. by wiegraf: 5:59pm On Oct 27, 2012
Christianity EtcRe: Dealing With Depression & Suicidal Thoughts As An Atheist. logicboy Confesses. by wiegraf: 5:39pm On Oct 27, 2012
Wearing white shorts and a rather silly grin sits the challenger. On one side of the shorts is the label, threaded in gold, 'delusional'. The other side seems to say 'hypocrite', I'll have to verify that. Also, seems like he is....talking to himself. I'm not sure what this strange ritual is for. I know stress makes some ppl speak to themselves, eventually these ppl find themselves in psychiatric wards if left unchecked... *mumble mumble*... Fascinating, ladies and gentlemen, a colleague tells me this strange ritual is called 'praying'. He also tells me a few other things about this ritual that would make me rather embarrassed were I to relate them to you, so I won't. Needless to say look it up

In the other corner, dressed in all black, with the shorts labeled 'mastah race' all pimped out in platinum, weaving and bobbing, our champion goes through his warm ups...

*skip*

There goes the bell! Our champion is moving in to begin taking care of business. Interesting, seems the challenger still has that grin and is also still... 'praying'....
Christianity EtcRe: Dealing With Depression & Suicidal Thoughts As An Atheist. logicboy Confesses. by wiegraf: 4:41pm On Oct 27, 2012
There's no such thing as atheist dogma anyways. Can we skip to the fight?
Christianity EtcRe: A Prove Of The Existence Of God. by wiegraf: 3:46pm On Oct 27, 2012
Sweetnecta: @logicboy03: dont spill the juice because you definitely need it so that you can make more than 500 pounds a weekend while dupsy abiola is making mega buck, you darn gorilla and your maga must pay, mugu. epic fail. let me respond to wiegraf the son of king kong.


@wiegraf: i am just toying with your emotion, not mad. the sharia is already out in the public square and in africa in central market. you may try to tell me how seed gets engineered to become seedling since no science can touch that? yet you said there is no God. son of a female do.g [an animal that you have to come from as an evolutionist. i am giving you good stuff in real time and all you yap about is dont tell me..

how are you going learn if you dont put your mind to it so that you can get good knowledge?
Now I'm sure you mad. Quit, while you still have a teeny weeny bit of dignity left....
Christianity EtcRe: A Prove Of The Existence Of God. by wiegraf: 2:25pm On Oct 27, 2012
Sweetnecta: ^^^^ wiegraf, abeg 'rite properly. all your ebonics i no sabi read.


@inurmind: i have spent many decades on earth and i have been in some parts of the world where they are pushing evolution harder than what you are saying here. neither them nor you in a trillion years will be able to evolve man from monkey, you son of a gorilla [i am sure that you know that i have not offended you by reminding you, an evolutionist telling you that i know who your family is; gorilla].



typical evolutionist son of a gorilla [again, not abusing you, but reminding you of what you accept for yourself]. you gorilla children always talk in abstraction thinking that as long as you are not committed to anything, no one can pin you down. i am not one of those take your garbage. i was think if you can tell us how this earth evolved from that particle of yours? please dont forget about all the elements that the earth contains, including the water it holds as a bowl.

now i say God created you. and what you will find is that even in the most sophisticated lab, after you have been sanitized before the experiment, if the experiment time is long enough, you will get dirty. the dirt when collected and analyzed, it will contain element in the water and earth, the two elements that God says He created you from. Tell me what was in the single particle that you say you originating source is before you mutated from your forebears the gorilla [again, you as an evolutionist agree that that your bloodline is gorilla's].



i get you joke, so you are a funny man to me. neither 'vedax nor me is gonna be a mai-guard to anyone, including the best of them, inshaAllah. Instead, we shall compete with these pedigree you are assigning vedax to. Amin. nigeria needs alot of dangote. and i am sure vedax can be another so that he can employ the job seekers that are plentiful in 9ja. I pray that for him and many and even you, mr. son of gorilla.


? what did he do?


i am a man you silly billy 'g. .t". i am just joking with you here about the qualification. don vex. the best ideas often start with the most basic thought/premise. when your gorillas got together they didnt know they will produce you by doing what pair of gorillas do in mating [i am taking it that you are an evolutionist, too. otherwise we are using wiegraf gorillas here].

see. Yahweh even made the not clear in speech Moses a big Book and defeated Pharaoh through him. Fatherless Jesus from a single young mother is made to turn the jewish nations to shreds, exposing their disbelief the way Adam is made to expose the disbelief of satan.


both of your, your mating gorillas produced you from what the mate gorillas gave to the female gorillas when they mated. mere liquid and you are now more than that liquid amounts, forming. you guys fall my hand.
Hahahahahaha

You sound mad, but it was still a bit funny... Your ignorance is still astounding (we didn't evolve from gorillas bros, and all that talk about particles and what not, seriously). But I'll let you go, for now. Not interested in changing your delusions, just want you to keep your $hit private and out of public sphere. Keep your sharia nonsense and fairy tales to yourself, seriously. I have no idea why the need to wear a badge for your imaginary friend and impose your will on others. It is the height of insulting.

Kudos
Christianity EtcRe: A Prove Of The Existence Of God. by wiegraf: 12:28am On Oct 27, 2012
inurmind: They might even be the same person.
Hmmm, good allah!
Considering... That's actually possi...
I dunno, but seems a lot more shills in islam
Christianity EtcRe: Muskeeto, Ihedinobi, Lb...lets Talk Here :-) by wiegraf: 9:38pm On Oct 26, 2012
The only shining light I can think of is social media. The pathologically blind should now be able to communicate with their neighbors and realize said neighbors aren't the devil's offspring. Then again even NL, which is all about the universally loved money, couldn't manage it (I'm looking at you particularly, 'islam for muslims'). If ever one needed proof that there are limitations to even the power of communication, which social media engenders brilliantly, well.
The other issues become magnified against this backdrop of mistrust, self-preservation in particular causing untold amounts of woe. Education may be able to do only so much, it might not be the ultimate panacea.

@plaet I'm too much of a theorist, so I don't think that way. Looking at the numbers, history of other countries as well as ours, etc, it just doesn't seem possible to reasonably progress even if we really tried. I think all we'll do is postpone the inevitable self-destruct.

We can't even decide on what 'reasonable progress' is. Ultimately we may all sort of want the same thing, but methods used to achieve this? Hahahaha, no. I want a peaceful society, how do we achieve this? 'A' is adamant sharia will work, 'b' says secularism. Throw god into the issue of ultimate purpose as well, complicating the issue just a bit more. People now living their lives to please him/it. Makes for some delicious pepper soup (not the good type mind you)

Random: humans would use hair color to draw the 'them' and 'us' lines if there were nothing else readily available. We, 9ja, have done rather well lasting this long. It's an enormous accomplishment, we can actually claim to be rather mature. It could be we're too lazy or incompetent to go about dividing the country though. Or the north is not as silly as it's reputated to be and will only let go of the oil money when it's cold, dead and buried.

Maybe in the future we will willingly decide to form a union. And even at that, look at the EU.

Opinions, opinion, opinions...
Christianity EtcRe: Muskeeto, Ihedinobi, Lb...lets Talk Here :-) by wiegraf: 7:29pm On Oct 26, 2012
Basic cultures are incompatible imo. Problem identified? The hausa man thinks it should be solved this way, yorubas that way, enter ibos, then the motley crew. In many cases, what one views as a problem is certainly not so to other tribes. Even western nations that are supposedly more mature than us would have problems in these conditions. We need to split up.
Christianity EtcRe: A Prove Of The Existence Of God. by wiegraf: 6:55pm On Oct 26, 2012
Sweetnecta: @wiegraf: i could have chose a nail on the finger or toe, the result will still be the same for those who use their mind. if you think classroom is where you get to use your mind the most, you have mistaken. medicine is not an exact science the reason you dont have a single medication for any single disease.

if you dont have a finger nail, you will feel huge could on your open flesh in the winter. what about in the hot of summer? can you even let any kind of water, hot or cold or even lukewarm run over your exposed bleeding finger because their is not fingernail?

come on wie graf. funny man. abeg; dress [comot] as they used to say in 9ja.
I see...

You could have used another organ, yet you chose one noted for its imperfections. That's called ignorance. All your organs are shaped by mutations/natural selection, read some evolution for allah's sake.

Then you make a statement like the bolded. Do you think anyone who makes a statement like that has the right to be lecturing others about being too literal, or about anything else for that matter? Do you even grasp what being literal means? As for your other point, that was a completely nonsensical way to get is across. It's a bit like saying a tv must have been designed by a sentient being because there are little invisible men furiously switching light bulbs behind the screen. Then it seems like were feeling like you had just made one of the most profound statements ever.

Random: why the need to try to sound wise anyways? that was a total failure. Not all of us are supposed to have intelligence for debates of this nature, etc. Some of us were destined to become mai-guards and such, like those with @vedax's mental capabilities. Note I am not saying I am particularly intelligent. Why am I a funny man. I really don't get this. Lots of people much funnier than me here....
Christianity EtcRe: If You'd Been Born In China, You Wouldn't Be A Christian by wiegraf: 4:18pm On Oct 26, 2012
@debosky
A lot depends on the op's intent. Can't say I agree with all of that, but meh
Kudos
IslamRe: The First Question U'll Ask Muhammad In Al(Janna) by wiegraf: 4:03pm On Oct 26, 2012
Sister fatie: um...u're trying to have a logical conversation with a guy to said he would marry off his nine year old daughter to prevent her from being promiscuos.
It happens all the time... I really should better manage my time... Dammit I actually have other things to do dammit
Christianity EtcRe: A Prove Of The Existence Of God. by wiegraf: 3:55pm On Oct 26, 2012
Sweetnecta: the dimmest of argument floors the ignorantly very intelligent.

an old man once asked his eye doctor what would have happened if the eye lashes were of equal size and sticky because of oil from the body?

the eye doctor was so taken aback that he ended up his atheist agenda because of his realization that Whoever designed the eye did not miss the slightest details for it to work as well as it works.


they hindsight is 20/20. the foresight is actually 20/20, but the poor at inner seeing didnt see it until it is a thing of the past, the reason he now see it by hindsight.
Ignorantly very intelligent
The human eye, the most well designed organ ever. (For your info, that's one of the worst organs you could have picked, but I won't waste too much energy on you. The fact that it's not your story, and indeed probably originated from some 'wise' and respected muslim, speaks volumes about the culture)
The complete lack of sense. I just figured out $hitting is useful, praise allah
I do like me any sort of deluded religionist, but am I being an ignorant bigot, or are muslims really the nadir?
Christianity EtcRe: If You'd Been Born In China, You Wouldn't Be A Christian by wiegraf: 2:54pm On Oct 26, 2012
We agree on a lot, except maybe the nature of the op and what type of knowledge is more valuable.

debosky: As for the latter two lines, it depends!

It depends on the basis of a discussion - if a categorical statement is made (like the OPs) and the veracity of such a statement can be determined (from evidence), then it will be open to objective challenge.

However, if a discussion is about opinions on a matter that can never be conclusively proved one way or the other, then there is no requirement for an objective/literal bent.
Well, we've more or else been saying the same thing here, actually wanted to point that out at the beginning but thought meh, and you've pointed it out of course. I'm not so sure the op's statement qualifies as categorical though, again consider the intended audience. But you're more troublesome than the average, I can't use you for cheap shining, so I'll come clean and accept we're more or else saying the same thing here...for now...

So let's examine context, which would be related to purpose...


debosky: If that is the purpose, then I have no issue with this, however it seems to be more than that - the purpose is more akin to challenging the fundamental beliefs of Christians:



Clearly much more than just an examination of the 'process' of acquiring faith and more of an attack on the faith itself.
Again, that would be misunderstanding considering context. The aim of the post is to challenge 'sheep', or those who have not really examined their convictions. For sheeple, this stands. Their beliefs are based on 'geography', so the rest follows (maybe not as colorfully, but not by much). You would be correct in pointing out not all religious are 'sheep' though. So, I suppose your challenge is valid, but you are ignoring context/the intended audience.

Perhaps I'd be happier if you just said 'not all religious are sheep', keeping things simple, in the spirit of the op. Then again, I would counter by saying the very vast majority are sheeple, like we atheists have already pointed out.

debosky: Culture is comprised of more than languages, so you may have missed my entire point here.


More succinctly - if 'hands on' empirical knowledge is missing, the understanding claimed is not wholesome.
Culture is comprised of more than languages, but the individual components work in the same way, unless I'm missing something you can point out. So I'd just replace linguist with anthropologist and my points still stand.

The understanding of an intellectual/theorist may not be wholesome, but is it less valuable than that of someone's based on empirical knowledge? I think not, I think it a lot more useful. That would probably be a longer debate though, do we have the resources to take on that?

debosky: I never implied the above - again, the import was that the 'mere accident of birth' theory is untenable.
Ok


Edits
Christianity EtcRe: Any Athiest In This House ? by wiegraf: 11:20am On Oct 26, 2012
Well, considering how opposites work, I'm glad they think me a fool..

BUZUGEE, THE DELUSION IS STRONG IN YOU. It might require shock therapy to stop your folly. I'll be rooting for you to make the 144000 though. Well, you probably will regardless of what really happens so long as you stay away from your medication, the one the psychiatrist prescribed ie
Christianity EtcRe: If You'd Been Born In China, You Wouldn't Be A Christian by wiegraf: 11:05am On Oct 26, 2012
debosky: I agree largely with your comments, but that means you do not agree with Rossike – he expressly asserts that Geography is the primary/sole determinant. Yes political power, sphere of influence, etc. do affect the 'uptake' of a religion, but even in locations where these factors are against Christianity, Christians are still found.
Erm, yeah, it's pretty obvious he doesn't mean every one, at least to anyone with a brain. Else, if he were born in 9ja, he wouldn't be an atheist, yes? It's a dumbed down message meant to address sheeple, who enjoy rhetoric and what not. It's an effective way to get your point accross with them, this isn't the scientific community you're dealing with. Recently, popular threads have included one where sp.erms spiritual properties were examined. Just look through the /religion threads to get a sense of what I mean, clearly not the most objective bunch. Now, if you're one of those that has no problem with those threads, I would find it a bit disingenuous for you to suddenly obtain an objective, literal bent here, no?

The goal of the op is to force one to examine how he acquired his faith, this is an effective way to achieve this.


debosky: I would say they don’t – they have intellectualised the faith based religious systems, and once you do that, you lose the ‘true’ principle behind faith. Anyone can ‘analyse’ a subject and claim to ‘understand’ it, but without true experience of the subject, this understanding falls short and is merely academic in nature.

E.g. 'studying' Yoruba culture and actually being born/immersed/living cannot be compared in terms of understanding.
I disagree. Like languages, I would say a linguist who can speak yoruba is more useful than the average yoruba speaker. He would even be able to decipher new words/phrases (so long as they are not related to some esoteric culture, and even native speakers might be unaware of those) he had never heard before because he understands the laws, how the words are put together, how the language works. Native speakers work with mostly with instinct. Sure all their thinking may be done with it, but they can't tell you how and why so, and may fumble when they come across new situations. What you are claiming is like saying a mechanic is better than an engineer. No, not really

debosky: Being 'cajoled in one way or the other' or simply choosing to accept a faith is very different to claiming it is simply an accident of birth – again, your post disagrees with the principal assertion of the OP – that is the import of my post.
See above. The cajoled are not the indoctrinated anyways. Different sort of ignorance, maybe, or sometimes those left without a choice.
Christianity EtcRe: Any Athiest In This House ? by wiegraf: 10:15am On Oct 26, 2012
BUZUGEE, ah, I can't caps lock sad
How dare you talk back to your atheist masters?

Random: and I remember some xtians protesting googles support of the ghey, saying they will boycott google. They did this by posting videos on youtube... Yes they continued to use youtube after it was pointed out to them, probably used google when no one was watching as well..

And it being sallah and all, my family doing some goat soup. Ima try get em to make some talking snake soup, probably using the talking fire as he (he says he's a 'he') says he's bored, wouldn't want it roasting the house just to amuse itself.
Christianity EtcRe: Have A Question For Dawkins? by wiegraf(op): 10:34pm On Oct 25, 2012
Meh, copy paste the whole thing. I like the last part, very delicious

"Slashdot: In a recent Gallup poll, it's been shown that the American population has shown no change over the past thirty years in their acceptance of evolution as truth. Why do you think that is?

Dr. Richard Dawkins: Well, I'm aware of that. It's a disturbing fact. This is Gallup poll results. It's slightly unfortunate in a way, that the way that they phrased the question in that particular Gallup poll is to say, on the one hand, mankind was created more or less in its present form some time during the last 10,000 years. Or.. the right answer.. evolution. Or, God had nothing to do with it. And, that "God had nothing to do with it" kind of puts people off. Nevertheless, that's the way Gallup phrased it. And, you're right that the poll hasn't changed. It's somewhere between 40%, 45% consistently.

I think religion is to blame. I mean, I can think of no other reason why, of all the scientific facts that people might disagree with or disbelieve, this is the one they pick on. Physics gets through OK. Chemistry gets through OK. But, not biology/geology and I think it's got to be because of religion.

Slashdot: Is that something you think can be easily remedied through education?

Dawkins: It should be. Education is the answer to the problem. I think that scientists are somewhat to blame for not getting out more and bringing their subject to people. So, I think we're not entirely blameless of that. The evidence is absolutely clear, isn't it? No doubt about it. It's not the sort of thing that one can be at all doubtful about, once you've seen the evidence. And, clearly, most people haven't seen the evidence. You've only got to talk to people who call themselves creationists to realize they haven't the faintest idea what the evidence is, or indeed, what evolution is.

Slashdot: Do you think there's a better way that people could be shown what the evidence is?

Dawkins: Well, there are books. There are plenty of television documentaries. There are plenty of websites that you can go look up Q & A and things. There's quite a lot of stuff out there. I'm not quite sure what that better way would look like, but I'd be grateful for any suggestions.

Slashdot: Earlier this year, the Tennessee State Legislature passed a law [allowing] public schools to teach the controversy with regard to evolution, global warming and a few other scientific theories. Much more recently, Representative Paul Broun, a Republican in Georgia, said that evolution, embryology, the big bang theory--are "lies straight from the pit of Hell." How does that tie in with the educational aspect? It seems to me, you're working at two problems. You have students who are not educated, with respect to evolution, the big bang theory, and similar things. And, those students grow up to be voters and legislators, who are now contributing the the problem.

Dawkins: It's very evident that Representative Paul Broun is uneducated, ignorant, probably stupid, too, which is very sad. It's very sad that somebody as ill-qualified to hold high office as that has been elected. There was a rather amusing tweet I saw on Twitter, which went something like this. "Doctor, you say that brushing teeth is a good way to keep them healthy. I say smearing them with chocolate is. Let's teach the controversy!" And the fact is, there is no controversy about evolution. It's a fact, demonstrated beyond all possible doubt by scientific evidence. Every qualified person who looked at the evidence agrees that it's an absolutely secure fact. There is no controversy to teach.

Slashdot: What is the effect, do you think, of this unwillingness to commit to science, on the production of scientists and engineers. In other words, if you suddenly could wave a magic wand and solve all these issues, do you think we would see more engineers and scientists come out of this country?

Dawkins: Yes. I mean, it's an odd fact that the United States is, beyond any doubt, the preeminent scientific power in the world. No doubt about it. Measure it with Nobel Prizes, with numbers of scientific papers published, and so on. It is the world leader. Yet, at the same time, it's being dragged backwards by nearly 50% of the population, who are anti- intellectual, anti-education, despise people who have education, and it's a big problem. Fortunately, the 50% who are doing the right thing are so good that they are still pulling the country in the right direction.

Slashdot: Is it important to focus on the United States and similar countries in this matter? Or, for example, South Korea recently had a win, actually, in which they kept the teaching of creationism out of their school textbooks. Is it more important to focus on the larger, more established educational systems, or to get into the smaller ones before that?

Dawkins: Yeah. I wouldn't say more important, but it sort of hits one in the gut, rather, that a country like the United States, which is so ahead of the field in half the country should be so way backward in the other half. It does rather stand out like a sore thumb in world statistics, but it's still important to teach in other parts of the world. Particularly, the Islamic part of the world, which is shrouded in darkness, really, educationally speaking, in this field.

Slashdot: Speaking of which: the recent controversy over the "Innocence of Muslims" video. Could you talk a little about that, and what you think the repercussions it's had throughout the world?

Dawkins: I've only seen the trailer for that video. It's quite astonishingly badly done, as everybody agrees. So, the fact that the Islamic propagandists decided to pick on that one is extremely unfortunate. They should simply have ignored it. Everybody else would have ignored if they had. So, that's a deplorable incident. On the other hand, freedom of speech is very important. Freedom of speech is something that Islamic theocracies simply do not understand. They don't get it. They're so used to living in a theocracy, that they presume that if a film is released in the United States, the United States Government must be behind it! How could it be otherwise? So, they need to be educated that, actually, some countries do have freedom of speech and government is not responsible for what any idiot may do in the way of making a video.

Slashdot: I want to read a quote from an article you wrote earlier this year. You said, "My point is not that religion itself is the motivation for wars, murders and terrorist attacks, but that religion is the principal label, and the most dangerous one, by which a "they" as opposed to a "we" can be identified at all." Now, nations can be conquered and nationalities can be merged. Racism is slowly getting eroded by education. Do you feel that religion can be educated in a similar way?

Dawkins: The context of the quote which you just read out was probably Northern Ireland, where I had been upbraided for suggesting that the Northern Ireland Conflict is about religion. People said, "no, no, it's about politics. It's about economics. It's about centuries of oppression." Which it is. But, when one group is said to be oppressing another, there has to be some label by which the groups can identify themselves. Now, in countries where there are racial differences, like South Africa, it's easy to see which group you belong to. In countries like Belgium, where there's a linguistic friction between those who speak French and those who speak Dutch, once again, language is the barrier, is the label by which people can identify the "them" or "us." But, in Northern Ireland — and I think probably in the Indian subcontinent — the predominant label, by far, is religion. So, that's how people identify the "them" and "us."

If you think about it, it's not surprising, because psychologists have shown that if you take, for example, children, and give them arbitrary labels — you arbitrarily divide the children into two halve — and give these ones orange t-shirts and those ones green t-shirts, and give them various other labels, they will develop loyalties to those of their own labeled group. And that happens very quickly. Now, if you imagine that you set up a rule, such that oranges only marry oranges, and greens only marry greens, and children of orange couples only ever go to orange schools, and children of green couples only go to green schools, and you carry that on for 300 years, what have you got? I mean, you've got a deep, deep division in society. And if it's possible for one of those two groups to oppress the other economically, they will. And then you'll get all sorts of vendettas and feuds developing."
Christianity EtcRe: Have A Question For Dawkins? by wiegraf(op): 10:26pm On Oct 25, 2012
"Dawkins: I've only seen the trailer for that video. It's quite astonishingly badly done, as everybody agrees. So, the fact that the Islamic propagandists decided to pick on that one is extremely unfortunate. They should simply have ignored it. Everybody else would have ignored if they had. So, that's a deplorable incident. On the other hand, freedom of speech is very important. Freedom of speech is something that Islamic theocracies simply do not understand. They don't get it. They're so used to living in a theocracy, that they presume that if a film is released in the United States, the United States Government must be behind it! How could it be otherwise? So, they need to be educated that, actually, some countries do have freedom of speech and government is not responsible for what any idiot may do in the way of making a video."

Well, duh. So what was obama doing apologizing for that?? Even the danish presido refused to indulge the silly islamic delegations that sought to meet him after their own nonsense.
Christianity EtcRe: Have A Question For Dawkins? by wiegraf(op):
http://science.slashdot.org/story/12/10/24/2357245/dr-richard-dawkins-on-education-innocence-of-muslims-and-rep-paul-broun?sbsrc=md


"Dawkins: It's very evident that Representative Paul Broun is uneducated, ignorant, probably stu.pid, too, which is very sad. It's very sad that somebody as ill-qualified to hold high office as that has been elected. There was a rather amusing tweet I saw on Twitter, which went something like this. "Doctor, you say that brushing teeth is a good way to keep them healthy. I say smearing them with chocolate is. Let's teach the controversy!" And the fact is, there is no controversy about evolution. It's a fact, demonstrated beyond all possible doubt by scientific evidence. Every qualified person who looked at the evidence agrees that it's an absolutely secure fact. There is no controversy to teach."


With the bolded, if even he can be made to speak like that then how are us mere mortals are supposed to remain calm?
Christianity EtcRe: Does Satan Work For God? by wiegraf: 5:13pm On Oct 25, 2012
seriallink: Fall mugu? really? God is just and wanted Satan to prove his point! God is all knowing brah; He knew Job would overcome the temptation~!
And lots of atheists would wonder, if he knew the results of the test, why did he bother giving it?

I'll leave you now, this is more an xtian only thread so I'll go mind my biz or troll someone I think obnoxious...
Christianity EtcRe: Does Satan Work For God? by wiegraf: 4:48pm On Oct 25, 2012
seriallink: Oh okay, so, it's you? Hehehehehe grin
Heheh, no... I don't even know how many books are in the bible... I just like jokes... Sowwy

Edit: I like this 666 fellow though
Christianity EtcRe: Does Satan Work For God? by wiegraf: 3:58pm On Oct 25, 2012
obadiah777: cheesy cheesy cheesy cheesy I WILL CHECK BACK LATER LADY MAMBAZO. IN THE MEANTIME STAY AWAY FROM THAT NKOMBOTI
Dohohohohoho
Christianity EtcRe: If You'd Been Born In China, You Wouldn't Be A Christian by wiegraf: 3:28pm On Oct 25, 2012
^^

I never said geography is the sole determinant.

Undoubtedly though, the society you grow up in, your family and culture, is the most important determinant for most. 5 percent of china are xtian, probably introduced by foreign clergy, etc. It is the most popular religion in the west, today's alpha society, with their borders opening up exposure is unavoidable. Lots of chinese are some sort of atheist, but note, atheism is not a religion. We can assume that a nice chunk of these 5% were not indoctrinated, but quite a few would be as well. If society were not a factor, I would think it rather obvious that the distribution would be rather more balanced, no? There would be more sikhs, muslims, etc as well as xtians, based on what a person's personal philosophy is. You think it a coincidence that members of most family units share the same faith? Members of most tribes share the same faith, let alone families. These people weren't given a choice as kids, they were told not to question, and that usually sticks.

Observe how many atheists can school a lot of religious about their faith, they have no problem discussing buddhism, xtianity or islam. More importantly, they understand the principles behind faith based religious systems. That's because most of them have actually taken the time to review these systems and determine which one best suits their individual needs. Of course as atheists, their choice is obvious. If you approached chinese xtians that are genuine converts, not indoctrinated, you'd probably find that they are well versed in religious lore of all sorts as well. Or at least have applied some consideration into their beliefs, not just blind, senseless parroting.

And many grand-fathers etc were cajoled one way or the other into one faith or the other. My mother went to a missionary school, her father had to convert to achieve this. Think of your tribe if you were colonized by muslims back in the day. Even ethnic German jews during the nazi years, despite the fact jews like to think themselves the 'chosen'. Financial reasons, etc. The inevitable (and true) comment about 'our slave masters' will soon show up. All this should be obvious though.

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