₦airaland Forum

PAGAN 9JA:
that is against the law of nature. those are rare abnormal cases. lets keep it to normal relationships.

I'm confused, what laws of natures do you speak of? Or homosexuality is not observed in other species?
You ignore gay rights, you're being a hypocrite. Simple.

Edit: really, how in the world are you an expert on 'normal' relationships?

Why doesn't Islam allow women to have more than a husband? Why doesn't it allow men to have husbands, or women to have wives?

Even Vader admits disco entertains
VADER


Edit: relevant, vader getting ready to parhtay

caseless: 1 tin i notice abt d OP, he's suceptible or vulnerable. U shldn't hav allowd som scientific percolation into u 100%..Dsame science cudnt xplain d pyramids built by men, or xplain d fom H-C undrgo primary migration.Science dos hav it weakneses, not perfekt

But religion is perfect?
Where did anyone claim science is perfect?

edit: meh, never mind, that has nothing to do with this thread.

caseless: U see wetin charles darwin and co de cause for dz boy. I luv ur inquisitivness, but do look b4 u leap cos u might end up seeing sumtin contradictory 2 ur personal belief in deism, and may b tryin 2 jump out like u'r about doin frm xtainity.

Your username is rather apt

Why are nerds teh sex?

NERDS

Semi-stalking atm, subtly harassing as well

Jesus explained why everyone lusts

LUSTS

You oughta use naija ganja

GANJA

Op, your soul is ripe for the taking. You've displayed reasonable intelligence, now all sides will come in for requesting your services for their cause, some not so subtly. I, for one, believe you should consider the church of flying spaghetti, we have the best afterlife of the lot and are mostly benign.

As for your problem, I agree with the consensus, for practical reasons play along with your mom. If you're full blown immature (like me) you can taunt them later, after you've achieved independence. Strangely enough, and I'm sure you realize this, they don't mean any harm, they usually can't think outside the box is all.

The bigotry/ignorance is strong in this thread
STILL SMITING HEATHENS? WHAT HAPPENED BUZUGEE YOU STOPPED USING ALL CAPS? I liked the caps, but this is a good sign, mayhaps your medication is working


Op, there's this fairly recent thread with a similar theme
www.nairaland.com/1025408/quick-question-those-dont-believe
It would take a lot of explaining for me personally.

lilcutie8916: Then ur big bang shouldnt be a theory if u re so sure about it and i am sure ur grand daddy or some micro organism which is ur ancestor must have witnessed it and narrated it to u and u.
And let me add that the time it takes for these pictures of stars and galaxies to reach ur eye takes thousans of years so if we re on a collision course it should have happened already .ur scientists make assumptions and since it is something u want to believe then it is the truth . Pls explain why there re missing links in ur evolution chain.

There is an imbalance in the post here, you show signs of education and signs of ignorance side by side. Some call that willful ignorance, I call it trolling.
You ask a question about evolution, you accept evolution as a 'theory' then? But you don't accept the big ban.g? There is a lot of evidence to support the big ban.g, not just assumptions, and you've already accepted you know what type of 'theory' it is. Then on galaxies colliding you mention it takes thousands of years for light to reach here thus the collision should have occurred. I'm confused, is the galaxy traveling faster than light? Sometimes it takes billions of years actually. But say it takes light a billion years to reach us at the speed of light, yet this galaxy is moving towards us at a fraction of the speed of light, and it would take it 10 billion years to get here, need I point out how your math is flawed (and my math is sh.it).

As for evolution, are there gaps? I honestly don't know. One thing I don't do though is assign 'god' to things I don't understand, especially when there's absolutely no need to, no evidence to support it whatsoever and it actually complicates things. For instance, who made 'god'? When someone eventually figures out the gap (likely using the scientific method) will you gladly bandwagon with him/her then, rewrite your religious theory or cover your ears and scream LALALA?. And this has been happening ever since the earth was flat and on the back of a giant turtle, and gods lived in rocks and rivers. They moved to the skies, science moved there as well, supposedly chasing them away I guess. The gods now live in the era before the big bang I hear, when science gets there I wonder where they'll hide. Any ideas?

Reyginus: I doubt that atheism will not get to that level. Atheists make atheism look like a religion. Some even consider it a religion, since it's a faith in the non-existence of a supernatural creator. Inother words it is a belief in the absence of God. Awareness that one is in the majority intoxicates. Though the belief of atheists is centered on global justice, time and resistance of the minority religionists(then) will be a catalyst for atheism radical approach.

You're disregarding all the examples. You're entitled to your opinions of course, but they're just that, opinions.

Mr_Anony: I'll come back to this

Take your time. I'm paying the price for my indolence atm... Sort of

Kay 17: ^^
Perfect!

Buddhism pursues self realization, so one can be a Christian and a buddhist

I really ought to find time to study it, I hear good things about Zoroastrianism as well. It's really, really depressing people choose more violent/hate filled belief systems. Then again, sadly, most of them didn't choose, they're going along with the flow...*sigh*

fellis: Wiegraf you have never experienced anything of the supernatural?

I have
I was in a boarding school see. After visiting day, I was enjoying some garri (complete with kulin kuly) but there were some bros who insisted on parasiting. I was hungry so I tried to get them away. But suddenly, one screamed "Winch!", and we all ran.... I didn't want to, but everyone was doing it so I thought what the heck. I didn't see the winchie, but the garri disappeared and the bros were all smirking, I've never figured out why.
That's my only experience with the supernatural.

I'll break it down for you, though I really should get back to work....

You are the one claiming there is a god, not us. You've mentioned evidence, where is it?

If I told you that my dog can jump over the moon you'd ask me for proof. If I demanded you accept it on faith you'd think I was being rude, no? If you just accepted it you'd be an idi.ot, and we are not idiots.

Then again, people think lightning will strike their enemies after visiting some really broke dude in a hut (it only works in villages though), or talking snakes, etc so meh

Reyginus: Simply put:
Religion has been demonstrated in the culture of man since time immemorial. Never has their been a time when man operated outside its confines. Atheism on the otherhand is a new culture, a strange one at that,judging from the history of the world. But a time will come(if we keep representing our faith in bad light) when religionists will be treated the same way as atheists are now. Then atheists will do all the stuffs they've accused the religionists of. Not because they hate them, but because it is not the culture of the generation.

This is interesting, however, if atheism rises to the summit I doubt it will come to pass. Main reason it shouldn't happen to atheism: atheism isn't a religion.

Now for humanism, I'm sure when various religions were in the ascendancy they made similar claims, ie, that they would be tolerant of other belief systems, only to climb to the top and become the oppressor. Other religions have achieved tolerant outlooks though, I'm no expert on religion but say bahai and buddhists (which isn't classified as a religion by many). So intolerance is not a foregone conclusion for successful belief systems. It probably depends on said systems attributes, and humanism is certainly built on principles of a global respect for life and various other similar concepts. For instance, countries with large atheist populations, which usually practice humanist principles, are not intolerant. Another issue is education and technology. We simply haven't had it this good in our history in just about every aspect of our lives. Communication will break down cultural barriers, we are becoming a global community. More or else one culture (just ginourmous), diversity will always exist but there will be a universally accepted moral code used as the base of all other codes.
One thing I could see coming to pass is ridicule of religious people that aren't able to separate their religion from their dealings with other people, especially if the beliefs are considered generally harmful or in violation of the universal code. Downright discrimination though would be very rare.

lilcutie8916: Dont tell me u re scared to make me believe.

You're a male lil cutie?
Where is this evidence you speak of? You will have to enlighten us

Delafruita: the focus of the group shouldnt be debunking religion,it should be advocating for the freedom of individuals to exist without religion.it should be advocating for the removal of the "religion" column from application forms.it should be advocating for the rights of people who dont adhere to religion to be able to live and be protected by the law.

you can always gain prominence by fighting the anti-gay law.people who arent religious shouldnt be forced to abide by laws made on the basis of religion

Very much this

Mr_Anony: Now, I'll start from the investigator part. You have only come across one piece of evidence, you have not seen the whole big picture so from your vantage point, you may judge it as evil but from the vantage point of one who is omnipotent and omniscient, you cannot make that call.

Maybe, but there isn't any evidence of some omnixxx around. There's just copious evil, much more than necessary to justify any conceivable motive that isn't nefarious.

Mr_Anony: e.g. it is the year 1914, you come upon a cabin in the woods and find the bodies of 3 young men who have been shot, each of them a bullet to the head. You as the investigator are wondering who the raving sociopath is that orchestrated the crime. You will be right to do so based on what you are seeing.
Now let us say somehow that you somehow came upon some super magical powers to see the future that those 3 young men were indeed Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler and Mao Zedong and because of their deaths, the lives of some 81 million people have been spared. You'll immediately be thanking the "raving sociopath" who was so good and had the foresight to kill these animals before they came to power.

Now this is not to mean that God cannot fix things some other "better" way. It means that since you can't see the big picture, you are not in the position to make the call. The point I am trying to make here is that for you to truly tell what is good and what is evil, you have to view events from a transcendent vantage point.

From your observing position, even if you came upon the best solution, you will not recognize it. This is why I've tried to use the video game/virtual universe analogy so as to put you in God's position in a sense.

Like you've said, there are other ways a God, or even mere mortals, could have gone about solving the issue ie. assuming they could see the future (besides I thought God doesn't interfere with their choice making, yet he has a problem with their future choices and interferes by having them killed off?). And I'm not talking about simple bullet to the head deaths, I'm talking about horrible, serial killer type deaths (indeed worse than many a serial killer deaths). In nature for instance, you have viruses that eat other life from the inside out over a period of weeks (I think, not too sure of the duration). Or the infamous fungi that turn ants into zombies, reanimating dead ants after they've eaten some of their organs, killing them in the process, and then using their bodies to move around. The levels of natural evil available are far more than what would be sufficient to achieve some 'good' aim down the road. Why should the investigator assume a 'good' motive? There's absolutely no reason to other than naiveté. Said investigator would be deemed as highly incompetent by any rational being judging him.

Mr_Anony: "The problem of evil" does not in any way limit God's omnipotence, omniscience and omni-goodness (permit me to use the phrase).

If he knew what was going on, not to mention what would happen in the future, had unlimited resources to aid, had a 'good' purpose and was by nature averse to suffering, then like you've already stated there very likely would be other less evil ways to achieve this greater good.

Bonus: Your reply to my point about omniscience, you might as well just have said whargarrble. You basically just asked me to accept his claims, which he didn't even make to me himself nor did he supply any good evidence of having made said claim, on faith. Like I already said, there's no way he could know for sure, unless logic does not apply to him. You think a supposedly wise being would not be able to see my point? Even if God himself showed up and told me personally he was omniscient I'd tell him he was being disingenuous.

I'm not sure what your free-choice entails, but you also state that ultimately man is not in control of his destiny, yet he has free-choice. He isn't in charge, yet he has free-choice? And God still judges him for his perceived failures. (Sometimes for things like eating shellfish or pig, or working on sabbath, but that's another issue). As for your computer analogy, trust me, any programmer would accept that his AI's flaws are his own. He would set about making a better program if he cared (even the architect in the matrix did so). That's simply not how programming works, formulas determine their actions, formulas coded by the programmer. He would accept his code is flawed.

Omnipotent, everything about him is true, yet there is false in this universe. Who is responsible for false then? Not God?

More bonuses maybe but enough for now, I suppose

Sweetnecta: atheists who live for nothing

If you'd be so kind, oh enlightened one, please tell me what you live for.
And also tell me how you know I live for nothing.

Thank you.

^^^ I personally prefer smirking jewishly
Maybe that can be translated to "smirking igboly"

"a young girl whose father was a fireman who died the previous week rescuing fetuses from a burning abortion clinic" <- pure gold

And wasn't it the devil who was responsible for evil/smiting? I forget... These things seem to change depending on who you ask
Aaah, smiting is supposed to be good... so long as God does it

THE MARINE AND THE ATHEIST PROFESSOR

An atheist professor, author of several books such as “Heartland America: Why I Hate It” and “Religion: Puerile Nonsense or Dangerous Threat?” was teaching his college class about the Gay Pagan Self-Esteem Program newly mandated by the state. He then told the class that he was going to prove that there is no God. He said, "God, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you 15 minutes!"

Five minutes went by. He kept taunting God, saying, "Here I am, God. I'm still waiting.”

Ten minutes. He continued to mercilessly trash-talk God, saying “What’s the matter, God? Don’t exist or something? That’s right, you best keep walkin’."

He got down to the last couple of minutes and a Marine just returned from the Gulf and released from active duty and newly registered in the class walked up to the professor, hit him full force in the face, and sent him flying from his platform. The professor struggled up, obviously shaken and yelled, "What's the matter with you? Why did you do that?"

The Marine replied, "God was busy watching over my buddies engaged in combat, and my buddies wounded in combat, and my other buddies killed in combat."

“What’s your point?” the professor asked, placing his elitist horn rim eyeglasses back in place.

The Marine thought a moment. “So He sent me. To punch you. Because He was busy.”

Rubbing his weak, bewhiskered chin, the tweed-clad egghead asked, “So you’re saying an omnipotent, transcendent deity was incapable of multi-tasking? Or that your pugilistic abilities somehow make a convincing argument vis-à-vis the existence of said supernatural entity?”

The Marine fumed silently as the professor continued hectoring the class in his thin, nasal, New England academic voice. “Or are we to believe Jehovah himself placed you in this classroom for the express purpose of engaging me in fisticuffs to protect his honor? Why, even this little girl wouldn’t believe such nonsense,” he said, indicating little Suzy Jones in the front row, a young girl whose father was a fireman who died the previous week rescuing fetuses from a burning abortion clinic.

Little Suzy put her puppy Patches down and ran to the front of the class, kicking the professor soundly on his shins, until the balding Marxist collapsed again to the floor.

“Ah, yes…here we see a demonstration of the brutality inherent in the, ow, monotheistic tradition,” he pointed out, as Suzy and the Marine continued to rain kicks and punches onto his prostrate form. “Do I need to, ouch, point out that God has not in any strictly, oww, discernable manner actually, personally knocked me off this platform?” he asked, clinging in a fetal position to the podium.

Eventually the two defenders of the faith grew tired and stood by, sweaty and out of breath, as the professor dragged himself up to a standing position. “Yes…well, I think I’ve made my point,” he stated, his annoying, East Coast intellectual voice full of gloating despite the lack of several of his teeth.

“I will now prove that good and evil are merely relativistic Western concepts imposed on…”

Suddenly the door burst open and an imposing figure with a full, Hestonesque beard strode manfully into the classroom, rolling up the sleeves of his flowing white robe as he approached the professor.

“All right Poindexter,” he said in a commanding, booming voice, smiting the professor with a devastating roundhouse to the jaw that sent the snobbish Postmodernist hurtling from the platform.

“Right,” said God, adjusting his robes. “Want something done right, do it yourself.”

“Thank you, sir,” exclaimed the Marine, saluting sharply.

“Sure, sure,” replied God. Glancing at his watch, he strode quickly from the classroom. “Look, I gotta run…that typhoon isn’t going to devastate Bangladesh by itself.”

These are american

A liberal muslim homosexual ACLU lawyer professor and abortion doctor was teaching a class on Karl Marx.

"Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Marx and accept that he was the most highly-evolved being the world has ever known, even greater than Jesus Christ!"

At this moment, a brave, patriotic, pro-life Navy SEAL champion who had served 1500 tours of duty and understood the necessity of war and fully supported all military decision made by the United States stood up and held up a rock.

"How old is this rock?"

The arrogant professor smirked quite Jewishly and smugly replied, "4.6 billion years, you stupid Christian".

"Wrong. It's been 5,000 years since God created it. If it was 4.6 billion years old and evolution, as you say, is real... then it should be an animal now"

The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of Origin of the Species. He stormed out of the room crying those liberal crocodile tears.

The students applauded and all registered Republican that day and accepted Jesus as their lord and savior. An eagle named "Small Government" flew into the room and perched atop the American Flag and shed a tear on the chalk. The pledge of allegiance was read several times, and God himself showed up and enacted a flat tax rate across the country.

The professor lost his tenure and was fired the next day. He died of the gay plague AIDS and was tossed into the lake of fire for all eternity.

The real world has caught up to me, by rights I shouldn't be posting atm.
I very rarely am practical though.

From what you've described your god is not omnixxx. Let's look at your all-loving

Basically you're saying the greater good is his aim (God doesn't seem to be truly omnipotent, there are some things he cannot do by your descriptions). I will counter that the amount of evil in this universe is superfluous. You are basically saying bad stuff happens, but his motives are good.
This is how it comes across to me. Supposing you were some investigator sent to investigate a crime, upon getting there you come across a lot of bodies, showing signs of heavy mutilation, days of torture. You even come across animals, tortured extensively as well. Do you conclude the perpetrator of these crimes was a raving sociopath or some misunderstood genius who's trying to help humanity?

Don't get your pantsu in a bunch yet, it's a hypothetical question.

No, really, I don't see what the govt biz is with how many wives/husbands someone wants. Except maybe because it complicates taxes/laws. So long as they're all willing adults why should I, or government, interfere?
My issue is the double standard, how many women have more than a husband? Those women happy with men being able to have multiple spouses while they can't are being silly imo.

Mr_Anony: So now let us cut to the chase: The problem of evil:

If God is All-Powerful, All-Knowing and All-Good. Why do natural evils such as diseases, earthquakes etc happen?
God should be able to know all the possible ways evil may occur, God should be able to fix all evil even before they occur, and God should be willing to prevent all evil.
The fact that evil exists in spite of God means that either God does not exist or God is not all He is out to be.

Is this a suitable statement of the problem of evil for you?
If yes, I'm off to read me some Alvin Platinga (I'll be back eventually though), If no, then you may have to redefine the statement for us.

Ok good pleb sir. It seems you didn't get me properly earlier on, you thought the argument related only to the christian God I think. It's a fairly well known dilemma (my full blown dismissal of abrahamic religions was brought about when a variant of this problem occurred to me, many others too) so I assumed you would have come across it. Actually, I'm pretty sure you have but perhaps weren't giving it too much attention or thought I spoke of something else. I've never heard of Plantinga (I don't have any technical knowledge of philosophy, religion etc, I just wing it) but he seems to be a theist authority on the subject, so no doubt you are now familiar with the topic even if you weren't earlier. Taking your post and modifying:

"If a god is omnipotent, omoniscient and omnibenovelant, why do natural evils such as diseases, earthquakes etc happen?
Said god should be able to know all the possible ways evil may occur, it should be able to fix all evil even before they occur, and it should be willing to prevent all evil.
The fact that evil exists in spite of said god means that either it does not exist or it is not all it is out to be."


So I haven't been focusing on the christian God, I've just been focusing on any being that is supposedly all of the omnixxx.
If you think an omnixxx is a genie-like creature, as you imply, and the christian God (there you go, capital G just for you) isn't one, then the problem of evil does not apply to Him (technically this should be 'it' christians). Still, perhaps you can show how the christian God avoids this problem?

frosbel: When homosexuals start to come out of their closet and want to influence society at large , which therefore puts our children at risk from such abominable acts , the state has a right to protect it's citizens.

I do not agree with harsh punishments, but a sort of punishment has to be given to those who think they can force their wishes on the unsuspecting masses.

If you want to be a pervert, do it in your closet, do not ask for equal rights !!

The bold is just.....
ahahahahahahahahaha

This thread is made of so much win
Bump

Mr_Anony: So now let us cut to the chase: The problem of evil:

If God is All-Powerful, All-Knowing and All-Good. Why do natural evils such as diseases, earthquakes etc happen?
God should be able to know all the possible ways evil may occur, God should be able to fix all evil even before they occur, and God should be willing to prevent all evil.
The fact that evil exists in spite of God means that either God does not exist or God is not all He is out to be.

Is this a suitable statement of the problem of evil for you?
If yes, I'm off to read me some Alvin Platinga (I'll be back eventually though), If no, then you may have to redefine the statement for us.

I have to be off too good sir. Yes it is something like that, but we're not too clear what the all-etcs are. We might have to clear that up before we proceed, else redundancy may occur.

Happy reading.

Mr_Anony: @wiegraf, that was really low

To be fair, I never claim to be mature
I still find it funny, see
Ba hahahahahaha
And I thought he was gloating
I'm sorry @crazyman, pls forgive me
@anony, you've not yielded yet? I'm waiting...
Don't use this as an excuse to back out. I'll play fair with you..honest