₦airaland Forum

menesheh:
What's your standpoint here. You are not a theist or atheist.


What's is your faith, i ask again?

You ask good questions mr menesheh, but i remember giving you an answer.

What difference does my faith make in an arguement totally based on logic...
Im simply more critical in thoughts than self acclaimed "free thinking atheists"....
You start from evidence for God, i start from evidence for man...and my premise seems more credible than that of the atheist in originality.

Im a critical thinker mr menesheh.

These so called pawn "atheists" on nairaland cant really stand where really committed and intelligent atheists speak.
Most of them are below the zero mark in critical thinking. One could almost match their ages with their level of reasoning.
Kids though

davien:
lol! You definitely have a diaper rash...

Congratulations to you on that note. still have a nice life.

davien:
Pity,in that as much as you can access the web just to maroon around in circles....it was first confusing to you,now an "unintelligent idea"....i weep for the fruits of the nigerian educational system that keeps spewing your kind..

It is disgraceful that you glory in your ignorance. your likes make me wonder how more you guys can survive in an intelligent populace...To think that you argue to justify your wrong even when it is clear shows the height of mordern illiteracy...
It never seemed to you how much of a tautology "target answer" is. Google could help you out if you are so lazy in reasoning.
You never should have quoted me, our level of reasoning differ greatly. its the type that thump professors.
You should weep and keep at it because the world has gone past your time. have a nice life.

davien:
Do you have comprehension problems? Failing to give a target answer isn't necessarily failing a question..

If my target answer is 1+1=3,then would you be wrong for not giving me that answer?

1+1=3 shows a failure in both question and answer..
All Questions have targets, "target answer" is a very unintellingent idea mr davien...Look up my conversation with the mister and point out the answers he gave to my question. Maybe in that, you could improve on your own comprehension.

davien:
Why not read intelligibly,target answer vs answer? see the difference ....you have target answers i presume and failing them isn't equal to failing a question...

You mean questions have no target Do you even know what a question means.. You mean i can give just an answer or a "target answer"...im sorry but you've messed up yourself yet again.

davien:
Failing to give you a target answer is not the same as failing a question....for example,what is life? Can you answer correctly?..

Failing an answer is not the same as failing a question . What sort of thing is this? did you even read what you typed
Please engage me intelligently.

menesheh:
whats your question?

Ill put it in simple words this time, give me an explanation with proof as to why the human life isnt one great illusion...
If you have no reasonable answer, i suggest you stop quoting me.

menesheh:
what is truth

Ive tried to answer your questions, but you have failed to answer my question of "your existence"...
You cant keep throwing me questions while you avoid mine....Answer my question meaningfully and then maybe the idea of Truth will make sense to you.

menesheh:
whats your faith?

Good question, i guess y'all have been wondering...
I seem rather logical than spiritual right?. and that automatically translates to the fact that i have a standpoint...
Atheists have no right to a standpoint, where you are standing is already wrong if you really want to be fair and objective...
Back to your question, my faith is Truth.

menesheh:
Am not running but your argument is the worst i ve ever had with any theist in Nairaland. There is no actual point that is coming out from you in favour of your believe.
You are just roaming without any destination.

You have to cool down brother. There are things you never know and same with me, in the process of doing this, there is no award or money that awaits any person that win. We are doing these to learn things we never know. I was born into faith and spent almost my 30 year believing and defending the believe i grew up with. Am not a dogma again, i try questioning any idea i don't understand like religion and big bang. An not a physicist but are trying my possibly best to understand thing am confused about. I dont criticize ideas am ignorant of but question more.

If you want to find out truth or fact of something, suspend any dogmatic and bias ideas you hold and probe more. Be more skeptical rather than being Logically absolute or criticise any idea that is presented to you.

Cheer

you call my arguements the worst simple because unlike other christians im not giving you what you are expecting, im not presenting you with evidence in spiritual things. i simple opted to follow a logical line of reasoning and now you cry foul, how convenient for you.

Im not coming out directly in favour of my believe, but im giving you solid evidence that shakes your belief and now you feel unfairly treated...
im not roaming about but i have a conclusion to drive at, only if you can answer my questions...I guess none of these makes sense to you because you already have a belief.

i advice you to take to your own advise of being logical and skeptical and suspend your ideas in search of the truth. maybe then you will see the picture ive presented..
i also suggest you start a quest to get an evidence of your existence.

Lastly, in your second paragraph, you tried to draw me into the "Our knowledge" equation....please dont...
ive chosen the path of truth, not ignorance

Amhappy:
Thats's why this section is so annoying. Which one is Christain God? God has been in existence from the very beginning. Thousands of years before Christianity,Islam or any other religion was birthed. God is God. He needs no adjective.

If its so annoying then what are you even doing here. i mean If you cant take the heat, then get out of the kitchen...
God is God. people only use the term christian God because traditionalists, muslims, taoists also claim to pray to gods...There is God and there are gods. thats the difference.

menesheh:
You seems not following my argument or naive to where am coming from. Your follow-up comments is always out of context to my explanations. Rigmarole. Am wilt off on this topic.










Pretty much ignorant. You know much, tell me more? What's big bang. Does it explain anything at all about the universe.

Yeah mr...... you should run, like your peers.
you are surprised that im thinking out of the box right?.
my arguements are out of context because i wont give you what you want shey, ill give you logical reasoning and shake your opinion so much that you just have to run.

Thoniameek was right, you have held on to an opinion so much that you fail to see other people's picture...You are already a believer.. difference between us is that i know what i believe in, you dont.

One the issue of the universe, The ignorant one here is you because you have chosen to not to even believe in its original existence...
For this reason, you are fake. So run along and inquire from your mates on the subject of the big bang. They will probably refer you to olden books by stone age "scientists" and as usual i expect you to imbibe and argue it on a smarter population.

You say "our contemporary perception of reality"....mr menesheh there is no "we", i simple mean there is no "us"....I speak for the people labelled "odd" in the society when i say this. It is disgraceful enough that you use the word "our" when no collective agreement has been reached.
Equity demands that you consider what a rapist, murderer, robber and their likes wants before drawing an inference from the concensus....
You forget that you force your own good "imported moral laws" down the throats of a supposed "rebellious minority"...and trying to tell me that i believe in already made imported stone age laws is like a pot calling the kettle black. Last time i checked, the present generations perspective of morality was not reached by a general concensus, it was imported from the ancient.
It is even more preposterous that you tell me about morals mr menesheh.


Ohhh.... you alienate the big bang theory, you are even more ignorant than i thought...then what do you know about mr menesheh You do no even understand how or why you exist.. Thats the height of ignorance..

And you talk about "searching for clues"....I could search for a clue with a ritualist on how to get rich quick, i mean he'll give me a clue, right..
what are you even talking about? science? man created science. but dont you think he might have the same creative nature/image of God.

Ill answer all your questions when you answer the simple question i poised to you earlier "Give me meaningful proof of your existence"

Weah96:
A book is proof of a human being, not God. Only human beings write books. I don't understand your dream reference. Are you running out of arguments?

Human being huh?, God is also a being so what does it matter.....if you dont understand my dream/illusion references, meand i lost you a long time ago and i think we are done here......its the least i could do man so as to avoid a system breakdown......
but you could read up my arguments open-minded this time, if you can see my point, maybe we can then pick up from where we left.

Thoniameek:
You put in so much time and energy in trying not to believe in God and yet unknowingly still believing in an unknown God.

When you've held on so much to an opinion that you consider anyone with a different perspective deluded, then to me it's no longer just an opinion, it's a belief. Atheists, is a belief system of an unknown god. It's just pathetic because they're not aware of it.


They're like spoilt kids, testing their parents love just wanting to see if they actually care. So, you hear them say things like - I hate you (an atheist way of saying if you're my maker then your ways are foolish compared to mine) or you're not my father/mother (an atheist way of saying I don't believe in you and everything about you), and we all know how the circle goes....

Even if you deny your mama o, disown am o
E no change the fact say na she be your mother.....

This is a great piece my sister. So much encapsulated in very few words. bless you.

Weah96:
My comments are my proof, unless you think that you're speaking to a bot on the other end.

Did you just say "your comments are proof"......i sense confusion in your system.....if merely typed comments are proof of your existence, how much more a book containing unifying documents collated by over 40 authors from different centuries...I should call you an hypocrite because you do not want me to use this as proof but you want me to believe in a typed document.....

Lets go back to critical thinking...If you want me to believe your existence by your typed message alone, dont you think people communicate with other humans in their dreams. On this ground, your evidence does not hold water, try again.

Weah96:
Let's be fair minded, you come equipped with a book of stories and your tongue. You tell me that our universe came from somewhere and that the somewhere is really a spirit person who is the true author of the story book. You would have just unraveled before me a monster claim, not unlike the claim that you are the ruler of a country on the surface of the sun and that you possess a few sun vehicles in your backyard here on earth.

The bigger the nature of the claim, the easier it SHOULD be to demonstrate.

You can't continue to simply open the book and use your tongue to read it to me, especially if you're reading passages where men are showing other men demonstrations of the God.

Why should any SANE God expect me to believe lip service from people who would later be caught at gas stations sucking the pe)nises of young boys. Are you kidding me?

No, you clearly arent fair minded and definately not seeing things from a more open perspective.....My evidence is man.... and that brings me bak to the fact that you have evaded my question yet again "Give me proof of your existence".......I have tried to be objective as much as possible...I never mentioned the Bible until i was prompted to do so. as a matter of fact, i have not presented the Bible as an evidence on this platform.....Stop moving in circles please

Weah96:
So you just believe it, and its the same as seeing it. SMH.

You know, I had an argument with a neighbor recently about professional boxers having to register their hands as dangerous weapons. I told him that no such thing happens in the US and if you talk trash to Andre Ward on the streets, it's yo arse. He grew incensed and called everyone in the neighborhood to vouch for his opinion, and they did. They had all heard the claim in childhood and just accepted it at face value because Mike Tyson looked so indomitable and strong. Little did they know that the whole thing was an urban myth.

Using your special logic, someone should have slapped me for going against something they had SEEN. They believed it, so they saw it.

Wake up from you slumber... You are a dream.......or did you just believe that you exist?..... special logic huh?, ill say read again, you might just find some logic.

BOWOTO:
God lives, I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, I believe in the holy spirit, I don't know how to talk plenty like Ya'll on this thread, I'm not that much of a good writter, you're a fool if you don't believe there's God, I know religion is what's bringing this confusion, mind you God did not create religion, humans did, just believe in God and do good.

Great.

Weah96:
Do you misrepresent the atheist position on purpose or are you just trying to score some points for the omnipotent one? Why should I believe that there is a spirit person that you talk to and it talks back? That's not the kind of thing you say with your mouth to another person or show them in a book. You need to bring the kind of proof that was brought to Thomas.

Now if you're claiming to communicate with the creator of the universe, then you must be levitating as you tell me the story or performing deeds that will make me believe your testimony. Everywhere in the story book called the bible, the God always shows up to prove to unbelievers that he is real. Outside of the book, however, we have to argue until we all die. Why is that?

I have a solid premise. You have to be intelligent to see it...God still proves his realities in different ways today, you still have to be intelligent to see it........I hope you find what you are looking for really (except in critical thinking, there is no such thing as hope, hope is make belief if we re-examine it from another skeptic angle dont you think).

Weah96:
Well, the next time you talk to your God, tell him that I want the same proof that Thomas required in the bible before he believed rubbish the resurrection story. Tell him that I refuse to listen to other mammals use their mouths and lips to just talk and talk. Seeing is believing.

No, you tell Him yourself... and for the christian God, believing is seeing.

You say "Morality is what we agreed on"...you shot yourself in the leg here...You could safely say "morality is what has been agreed on for us"..by some people whose level of sanity and bias were probably not verified......

Morality has been passed down to us by our ancient ancestors, but i dare you to prove their yardstick for this so called "morality"..
Dont you think physical punishment for defaulters is unfair considering the fact that they have a different standpoint of morality..
It is tyrannical and odd to enforce some handpicked ancient laws in a proposed free thinking society. Fairness can only be attained if there is a general agreement of what morality is, this process must put into consideration ideas by people you have labelled "criminals"....
So please be objective as not to enforce your perception of morality on others.



And There was no rigmarole in my point, you speak of morals and ethics and culture and sorts but you failed to root out the basis of this morals, especially considering the facts that the stone age people set them in motion...
You are clearly bias to say that "we cherrypick condusive ones"....i mean who has made a human a judge over the affairs of another...In your objectivity, did you consider that it might not be condusive for me. That is simply unfairness and coercive.


The thing is that, i do not believe in a created deity i believe in an uncreated deity. Let me turn your question around and ask you to prove to me that your whole life isnt one big illusion.

Get this mr menesheh, as stup1d as it might sound...Rationality proves nothing except you can explain to me (not in gibberish) how a big bang in about three minutes transported matching matter over far distances to each other to form a very orderly environment. You have no evidence either....The difference between us is that i choose to use man as an evidence.....

And yes, Most renowned occultic groups share the same feelings with atheists towards the christian God... and the reason is not far fetched....
Please be meaningful,Atheists and cultists are "believers"... cultists believe in the devil, atheists believe that there is no God...

podosci:
Is death of life didn't affect me

Oh man, ....You have a lot to deal with.

podosci:
God is dead..

Make you feel good?

Jeromejnr:
@winner01.. I love your replies. I am feeling you bro.

Thank you brother....In critical thinking, the only thing that exists is MAN...and i even disagree with that fact.....maybe they should prove to me that life itself is not a delusion or a trans or a dream or an illusion...

Weah96:
Thomas almost slapped his mates for telling him that Jesus resurrected. When they told Jesus, he showed his resurrected body to the eyes of Thomas. Thomas even touched the thing. I'm like Thomas, but I'm starting from the beginning of the entire story. You SPOKE with the thing that created everything, good. Now show me or GTFOH. That's not an unusual request.

Stop being childishly agressive...You may find grace just like thomas and also you may not.....The rich man sadly discovered when it was too late and just like you he wanted proof for his brothers in

luke 16 Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead
goes to them, they will repent.’
“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the
Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from
the dead.’”

Now several people have been raised from the dead via miracles, and this feats are seemingly extint-bound because of gross Godlessness..But the devil-controlled media has to do all it can to keep things strictly physical... why... to keep the majority (even some christians) in a state of doubt till time runs out....and BOOM!!! in a flash, you find out the hard way.

Weah96:
Yea, you're leaving out the part where the God appeared in the fire. After all that nonsense talk, the God showed up in person and the case was closed. You guys insist on providing lip service when others in the bible were presenting the God for human eyes to see.

Lol bravo!!! another that knows the Bible....like i said earlier God does as He pleases....in that story, a fourth being appeared..and it pleased God to open the eyes of the king. Note that the Bible did not record that any other man saw the fourth being....

Just the same way God wished to open another eye in 2kings 6:17 And Elisha prayed, "Open his eyes, LORD, so that he
may see." Then the LORD opened the servant's
eyes, and he looked and saw the hills full of horses
and chariots of fire all around Elisha.

He does as he pleases. And even if he refuses to do something, He is still God.

reallest:
Common u can do much more better dan dat,who need religion to know its not good to kill?

how dare you tell me what is good and what is not......what do you even mean by good?

lrguru:
woman wrapper

thank you for the compliment

onetrack:
I haven't really heard of too many 'committed atheists'. Most atheists are ready to change their minds with good, solid, empirical evidence. I am ready to believe absolutely anything with proof.

Anyhow I have regularly criticized Islam on this page. I don't go to the Islam section because I would be banned there anyway. However when Muslims post on the Religion board I have debated with them numerous times. Islam and Christianity are two sides of the same scam, and both religions insult us by saying that your loving god is going to torture us mercilessly for infinity; we have every reason to respond.

A king wanted to kill some young hebrew boys for refusal to bow to his god, the king actually wanted to "respond" or question the existence of their God....just like you, the boys had no physical proof of God or an assurance that he was going to save them.....
Truth is, you will respond and maybe will keep responding till you inevitably go back to dust...No of His creations will change who he is..Funny thing is he does as he pleases. i guess the hebrew boys knew this when the replied the king

"But even if he does not save us, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up."

What are "objective laws" guiding me and you mr menesheh.....In fact what is a law... if it is created by a human, then why does he compel me to see things from his standpoint. they cant define minor the same way you have no right to utter the word law or moral to other humans....
If society (made up of humans) enforced "law and order" and morality....dont you think they are being unfair to the thief, kidnapper or murderer just because he sees things differently from their stand point.....Thats the height of unfair treatment...afterall "morality is subjective"


If the idea of devil is not appropriate, then dont you think your idea of bad is also inappropriate...Please i ask for objectivity here....Think critically and tell me if the idea of bad by chance was not fed to us by our primitive ancestors and maintained till date by a clearly bias society. The fact that you were born into a society does not mean you should fully imbibe their idea or standpoint of bad...Lets think critically please.


The only evidence i can present about the existence of God is you...
I will also like that you explain how matter came from different parts of an explosion to submit particles together and form an orderly world.


Cal me deluded, its your song...But im not blind to the fact that the greatest cult societies of the world mainly propagate hate for the christian God.... and so do atheists or let me say anti-theists.